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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 18841
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#298. To: buckeroo (#294)
BFD? YOU'RE the one claiming the steel was weakened by fire, which is not true. If it were possible, then the North tower would have fallen down back in 1975, where the fires raged for over 3 hours.
Horizontal cutting charges more than likely wouldn't have registered. You said yourself that the seismic data only showed the final stages of the collapse.
Thank you. I knew you would finally ADMIT that the air crashes were the initial trigger mechanism for and about the collapse..... I feel vindicated now. But what you hide in your post is the fact that the jet aircraft struck into the central core, cutting off ALL capability of fire control to the upper floors besides the 6 floors (of each building) initially ignited by fire. Shame on you, pal.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
NONO ... NO... those graphs show several seismic locations around the NYC area collaborating the initial crash with time and the later collapse. You should read it.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
According to the science of KooKology, it's those twisting horizontal forces that caused the top to reach the ground at the same time as those lower levels, sort of like a wormhole or something.
You've already explained it buck, you said that the data only shows the last few floors hitting. That IS what you said, isn't it?
I didn't say it didn't fall........I said it didn't ACCELERATE as you and AGAviator were postulating. LOL
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Oh yes, I forgot to calculate that worm hole into the colllapse. lol
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Well YEAH, it was the initial LURE, getting all the network cameras focused on the WTC towers, then POOF, down they go once every station is broadcasting it live. The COLLAPSE was the MAIN ATTRACTION, and IF they hadn't collapsed, not only would there be investigations and LOTS of time to examine evidence, but it wouldn't have had the same psychological impact. That and Silverstein wouldn't have gotten his insurance money.
But all three towers collapsed (with acceleration) that day. All photographic material suggests the three towers fell with increasing velocity (acceleration).
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Hey Buck.........You're three hhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuunnnnnnnneeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrttt!! Who-Hoo!! : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
There is a very good reason why real world controlled demolition uses so much time, energy, and materials to create conditions getting as close to free fall speeds as possible. And the consequence of this reason is, if the collapse does not approach free fall speeds, it wasn't done by professional controlled demolition experts. The reason is, it is known with complete certainty that the force of gravity, if unobstructed by other forces, will pull the building straight down into its own footprint. Where it can be neatly disposed of without damage to anything else not intended to be destroyed. When the structure is not sufficiently prepared by getting rid of any and all remaining obstacles in the way of straight down vertical collapse, there are additional uncertainties introduced of timing, and rerouting gravitational forces in lines other than straight up and down. So professional demolitions people take extra time to make sure the fall will be as close to vertical free fall speeds as possible to avoid introducing other variables which may cause unpredicable unmanageable results. If a building doesn't fall at close to free fall speeds, its fall has not been set up by controlled demolition. Fifeeen seconds vs. nine seconds for a collapse is not even close to free fall speeds. The controlled demolition theory is debunked by actual and observed free fall speeds indicating lack of thorough setup for a building collapse many times larger than the largest recorded CD.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where are the recorded explosions coupled in time with columbia's documented, www.ldeo.columbia.edu/LCS...0911_WTC/WTC_LDEO_KIM.pdf seismic recordings from several locations?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Accelerate from what? From free fall speeds? This is a huge problem that folks have with the goobermint accounting of events. Falling at the same rate that an object with NO RESISTANCE would fall craps on Newton's great works. Increasing velocity should tell any person with an iota of knowledge about physics that we have a problem Houston......... You stick with the goobermint Buck, I'll stick with Newton on this one. What does your photographic evidence prove? It could prove that the RESISTENCE within the cores of those buildings was removed......or Newton screwed up on his physics.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Great post! Let us take a snapshot of what you are saying: "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Where did I say anything of the sort? You just answered the question of why people were jumping, but it doesn't change the fact the fires weren't hot enough to melt or weaken the steel. There WAS at least one stairwell left operational in the South Tower, but very few people were aware of it and perished, waiting for a rescue from the roof top... From 911 Research When the jet hit the South Tower, it cut off several routes of evacuating the 30 floors above the impact zone. It did leave at least one of the stairwells passable, and the New York Times found at least 18 people who escaped through that stairwell. Most people above the crash zone were not aware of the escape route, and at least 200 climbed toward the roof in hopes of being rescued there, only to find the doors to the roof locked. No one had told them that roof top rescue, which had been used in the 1993 bombing, was no longer an option. 3 Does anyone of your "pals" concur with you? The idea of freefall is based on an object in Earth's gravitational field as with a constant acceleration constant which is known from the days of Galileo.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Thank you, again. You see, it feels good to admit the truth, doesn't it.... coming out of the closet to admit that the water supplies were cut off and/or destroyed exacerbated the conflagration of the upper levels. That same conflagration weakened the rated or otherwise designed stress loads leading to the collapse. Again, I thank you Formerlurker.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Wrong. All the demolition has to do is START the collapse, and with strategically placed charges and computer aided timing, the collapse can take however long they want it to in terms of structural collapse below the initial point of failure. Thing is, it collapsed WAY too fast for gravity to have done it alone, where a falling body meeting resistance slows down, and the resistance may eventually give way, but it takes some finite amount of time for that to happen. You're saying it took 6 seconds to smash and break EVERY iota of resistance, since the 9 seconds of falling through a vacuum doesn't correlate with the time it took to overcome the resistance.
Wow, we both used the word "iota" moments from each other. Looks like we're on the same "wavelength"... :)
But a demolition did not start the collapses. The jet crashes did.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Well, you are claiming an increasing velocity with all those floors offering RESISTANCE right? Let's just get what your claiming real clear, Buck. And, in the case of WT7, we are talking about 47 floors that had no magical jetfuel to "weaken" the steel at all. This is your claim. I know what free fall is in relation to Newton's work with gravity. This is why your claims are so funny. What "constant acceleration" are you referring to? Acceleration, by it's very nature, ISN'T a CONSTANT. Let me help you grasp what a CONSTANT is: 1.Something that is unchanging or invariable. 2. a.A quantity assumed to have a fixed value in a specified mathematical context. b.An experimental or theoretical condition, factor, or quantity that does not vary or that is regarded as invariant in specified circumstances. lol......
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
That same conflagration weakened the rated or otherwise designed stress loads leading to the collapse. And again you're full of it buck. You apparently suffer defeat, only to claim victory in response. There WERE no sprinklers back in 1975 either, yet the tower didn't turn into dust then, just like it SHOULDN'T have done on Sept. 11, 2001.
Er, no buckie. The buildings did NOT start to fall down when they were hit. They did NOT start to fall till the precise time they collapsed.
Yes, that is why the buildings did not collapse at freefall. It doesn't mean, that they didn't fall with acceleration. In fact the collapse times are recorded to be longer than any freefall event.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
So there was no debris scattered around immediately after the impacts? Not much time... it was amazing they stood for so long ... but it took time for the central structure to lose stress capability that caused the later crush down phase.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
My GOD man ... you didn't see the initial explosions based on the impact of the jet aircraft? Every floor (above) was cut off from support systems as the fire ravaged. Both the FEMA and NIST reports indicate the majority of the jet fuel was spent in the fireballs, external to the building, and the rest was consumed in the first few minutes. The fires were office fires, no better, no worse. People were mostly in the windows due to SMOKE, as they couldn't breathe inside the building, and there probably WERE some parts of the aircraft that were on fire along with the office equipment. Not hot enough to weaken steel, but hot enough to burn people and cause them distress. You didn't see the hundreds of people leaping to their deaths because of the fires caused by the aircraft? As I said, the fires were there, but they weren't hot enough to melt or weaken steel. Besides the temperature not being hot enough, the heat was absorbed by the building itself, wicking the majority of the heat into the rest of the building, away from the fire. There WERE survivors on those impacted floors BTW. Battalion Chief Orio Palmer and his crew reached the 78th floor of the South Tower and Chief Palmer radioed back that there were isolated pockets of fire and that he would need two hoses and crews to "knock the flames down". That does not sound like a raging inferno. It sounds like an office fire that had engulfed part of the floor, but was by no means the Steel Melting Inferno™ engulfing the entire floor that NIST and the other advocates for the Official Fairy Tale™ attempt, falsely, to portray. The same applies to the NIST estimates of the fire temperatures (arrived at by using a multi-megawatt heater in a test room the size of a living room) which are based on the burning of office furniture because even they have been forced to admit that the fuel was all burned in the first ten minutes (a story which has changed from the original which was that everything was attributable to the fuel). As well the amount of damage actually done to the cores of the buildings is unknown as there was no direct photography of the building cores.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Sorry abraxas, to be fair I have to say that acceleration due to Earth's gravity, here close to the Earth's surface IS in fact constant, and is approximately 32.2 feet per second per second. In other words, an object will accelerate 32 feet per second for each second it falls through a vacuum. Air resistance will slow it down a bit, depending on the size and shape of the object. And of course, an ENTIRE BUILDING offers a bit more resistance than air, and is what keeps the rest of the building from falling down, but THAT part is what appears to baffle buck and AGovShill.
Well they DID find a passport, but not much of the aircraft. Besides the exit hole debris, nope.
That was many floors below both towers from the immediate impact consuming as many as 6 floors each initially. The initial crashes were at 96th and 81st stories, so your point doesn't stand up .... other than substantiate that EVEN lower floors were being devastated.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Not amazing at all, what's amazing is that they fell at all, never mind disintegrate into dust while coming down close to free fall speeds.
But where were the demolitions placed and by whom? You worry about some silly passport when the challenge of this thread is about demolition theory.... why did you do that?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
One more time and I'll ask you REAL slow........ Accelerate from WHAT? From free fall speed? What Newton's wonderful experiment showed was that if you drop a penny and a semi truck from the same height, with NO resitance, the two fall at the SAME SPEED. The semi doesn't fall faster because it is bigger and heavier. In the case of these buildings--you have tens of lower floors, that were no where near any magical jet fuel, that were built to hold the weight of all the floors above them, that don't seem to make it into your calculations in regards to the RESISTANCE they would offer. In the case of WT7, you have 47 FLOORS that didn't have any magical jetfuel or even A PLANE CRASH into it--yet it simply falls into it's own footprint at NEAR free fall speeds. Newton and I call BS on that story.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
ROTFL .... no building is designed to withstand that kind of impact.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Go fetch your Newton for a better argument....
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
There is not much of a difference between the 78th floor and the 81st floor, EACH plane banked before it hit and the wings tore into multiple floors. I will grant that we have a calculation from Newton that demonstrates the FREE FALL Speeds we are discussing here. So, in this calculation this would be a constant because there is no variance. If Buck wishes to concede that he is using the free fall speed as a constant, then we have a place to work from. However, Buck refuses to peg his concept of acceleration against the free fall speed calculation. I can't figure out what he deems to be accelerating in relation to anything else, nor can he tell me. I think he is being coy because he knows if we are gaging his "acceleration" against the free fall constant, that the RESISTANCE is completely ignored when the whole thing falls damn near free fall speed.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
The external wall was designed as a screen net, where you can poke a pencil through it without damaging the entire screen. The internal core was built of extremely thick and heavy steel columns, and if you look at the impact of WTC2, the jet went in on an angle and crossed the outer section of the tower, with the debris and fireball exiting out the near corner. So not only was the damage mostly to the exterior wall, which was largely there to hang windows and offer lateral support against winds, but the inner core was largely unaffected in terms of actual impact. It more than likely suffered damage due to the initial explosion, and that is what damaged the elevators, but IF the core had been bent and started to sag, the sag would have been noticable, and the windows and exterior wall would have started breaking LONG before the actual collapse. The building WAS in fact designed to withstand impacts of heavy jets, the speed of which is debatable, but they were in fact designed to handle those sorts of things.
Granted... still, according to O_I, the 78th floor was already being consumed while the major fires were above. I don't know about you but the last time I heard of heat dissipation was that it generally tends upward. As for the scattered fires on lower floors, of course... and that same creep occurred as the central core weakened.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
So what IS your excuse for WT7? Also the architect for those buildings claims they were indeed made to endure the impact of a 747. Also, this architect calls BS on much of the story......he has far more experience in this field than you do Buck. "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
BS... if anything, I agree about the resistive characteristics of the lower floors supporting the idea that the WTC BLDGS did not freefall. But that doesn't mean acceleration didn't take place; it just means that CD wasn't used and observable FACT supports my contention.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#299. To: buckeroo (#297)
Where are the explosions?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#300. To: FormerLurker (#296)
Both the FEMA and NIST reports indicate the majority of the jet fuel was spent in the fireballs, external to the building, and the rest was consumed in the first few minutes.
#301. To: FormerLurker (#299)
#302. To: abraxas (#290)
It's as if Newton's simple experiments evaded your "profound" logic and the two of you continue to believe that bigger objects fall faster than smaller objects............and that all those floors beneath where the "collapse" began didn't offer any RESISTANCE
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#303. To: buckeroo (#301)
You should read it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#304. To: buckeroo (#293)
#305. To: FormerLurker (#302)
#306. To: buckeroo (#300)
Thank you. I knew you would finally ADMIT that the air crashes were the initial trigger mechanism for and about the collapse..... I feel vindicated now.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#307. To: abraxas, AGAviator (#304)
I said it didn't ACCELERATE as you and AGAviator were postulating.
#308. To: buckeroo (#300)
#309. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#263)
(Edited)
Yep, the building SHOULD NOT HAVE collapsed as if it were falling through a vacuum, yet buck's expert "calculated" precisely that.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#310. To: FormerLurker (#306)
Well YEAH, it was the initial LURE, getting all the network cameras focused on the WTC towers, then POOF, down they go once every station is broadcasting it live.
#311. To: buckeroo (#307)
But all three towers collapsed (with acceleration) that day. All photographic material suggests the three towers fell with increasing velocity (acceleration).
#312. To: AGAviator, ALL (#309)
If a building doesn't fall at close to free fall speeds, its fall has not been set up by controlled demolition. Fifeeen seconds vs. nine seconds for a collapse is not even close to free fall speeds. The controlled demolition theory is debunked by actual and observed free fall speeds indicating lack of thorough setup for a buliding collapse many times larger than the largest recorded CD.
#313. To: buckeroo (#300)
But what you hide in your post is the fact that the jet aircraft struck into the central core, cutting off ALL capability of fire control to the upper floors besides the 6 floors (of each building) initially ignited by fire. Shame on you, pal.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#314. To: abraxas (#311)
Increasing velocity should tell any person with an iota of knowledge about physics that we have a problem Houston.........
#315. To: FormerLurker (#313)
There WAS at least one stairwell left operational in the South Tower, but very few people were aware of it and perished, waiting for a rescue from the roof top...
#316. To: AGAviator (#309)
If a building doesn't fall at close to free fall speeds, its fall has not been set up by controlled demolition. Fifeeen seconds vs. nine seconds for a collapse is not even close to free fall speeds. The controlled demolition theory is debunked by actual and observed free fall speeds indicating lack of thorough setup for a building collapse many times larger than the largest recorded CD.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#317. To: abraxas (#311)
Increasing velocity should tell any person with an iota of knowledge about physics that we have a problem Houston.........
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#318. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#316)
All the demolition has to do is START the collapse
#319. To: buckeroo (#314)
The idea of freefall is based on an object in Earth's gravitational field as with a constant acceleration constant which is known from the days of Galileo
#320. To: buckeroo (#315)
coming out of the closet to admit that the water supplies were cut off and/or destroyed exacerbated the conflagration of the upper levels.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#321. To: buckeroo (#318)
But a demolition did not start the collapses. The jet crashes did.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#322. To: abraxas (#319)
Well, you are claiming an increasing velocity with all those floors offering RESISTANCE right?
#323. To: FormerLurker (#321)
The buildings did NOT start to fall down when they were hit.
They did NOT start to fall till the precise time they collapsed.
#324. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, James Deffenbach, all (#296)
To: buckeroo
#325. To: abraxas (#319)
Acceleration, by it's very nature, ISN'T a CONSTANT.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#326. To: buckeroo (#323)
So there was no debris scattered around immediately after the impacts?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#327. To: Original_Intent (#324)
Battalion Chief Orio Palmer and his crew reached the 78th floor of the South Tower and Chief Palmer radioed back that there were isolated pockets of fire and that he would need two hoses and crews to "knock the flames down". That does not sound like a raging inferno.
#328. To: buckeroo (#323)
Not much time... it was amazing they stood for so long ... but it took time for the central structure to lose stress capability that caused the later crush down phase.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#329. To: FormerLurker (#326)
#330. To: buckeroo (#322)
#331. To: FormerLurker (#328)
what's amazing is that they fell at all
#332. To: abraxas (#330)
Newton and I call BS on that story.
#333. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent (#327)
so your point doesn't stand up .... other than substantiate that EVEN lower floors were being devastated
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#334. To: FormerLurker (#325)
to be fair I have to say that acceleration due to Earth's gravity, here close to the Earth's surface IS in fact constant, and is approximately 32.2 feet per second per second. In other words, an object will accelerate 32 feet per second for each second it falls through a vacuum. Air resistance will slow it down a bit, depending on the size and shape of the object.
#335. To: buckeroo (#331)
ROTFL .... no building is designed to withstand that kind of impact.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#336. To: FormerLurker (#333)
There is not much of a difference between the 78th floor and the 81st floor
#337. To: buckeroo (#331)
no building is designed to withstand that kind of impact.
#338. To: abraxas (#334)
However, Buck refuses to peg his concept of acceleration against the free fall speed calculation.
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