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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source: BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
Ping List: *4um PSY-OP Club*     Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*
Keywords: None
Views: 18279
Comments: 1209

An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks.

The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total.

One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition".

The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell.

Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York.

After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001.

This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking").

Resistance to collapse

Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.

Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures.

Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts.

"The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website.

Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse.

His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.

This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground.

'Fair assumption'

The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell".

"One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen.

The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings.

The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center.

This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers.

Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble.

Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse.

Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design. Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 344.

#237. To: buckeroo (#0)

His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.

This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground.

Actually a free fall from the 110th floor would have taken 9.22 seconds.

Wow, the towers fell FASTER than free falling objects, like being sucked into a huge vacuum cleaner.

Amazing.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19   7:59:34 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#246. To: FormerLurker (#237)

Actually a free fall from the 110th floor would have taken 9.22 seconds.

Show me your calculation and/or source material.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-19   12:13:29 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#247. To: buckeroo (#246)

Show me your calculation and/or source material.

Oh man, are you REALLY that stupid? Besides it being stated in virtually every report that exists in terms of free fall comparisons, here's the basic physics, which you apparently never learned in school.

You can look up the formula, it's t = SQRT(2d/g)

t = time, d = distance, g = acceleration due to gravity (32.2 feet per second/second)

The roof heights of the WTC towers were 1368 ft for WTC1, 1362 feet for WTC2.

Acceleration due to gravity is (32.17 feet per second)/second

For WTC1;

t = SQRT(2*1368/32.17) = 9.222 seconds

For WTC2;

t = SQRT(2*1362/32.17) = 9.202 seconds

So there you go buck, try looking things up yourself next time before you make a fool of yourself.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19   12:48:24 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#249. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#247)

Why do you think that your height measurement for the "top" of each of the WTC towers is correct?

The towers were hit on the 96th and 81st floors, this means that "free fall" time values were 8.61 and 7.91 seconds respectively because this is the location of initial forces (de plane! de plane!) that buckled the upper floors.

So, you are incorrect by throwing your silly brick off the 110th floor... for a publick demonstration of your astounding assumptions to thwart otherwise serious study and investigation into and about a tragic issue.

This notion of "free fall" has always been used by the TWOOFERS and it is an incorrect assumption for the top of either of the building for the calculation; it is utter nonsense.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-19   13:15:40 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#252. To: buckeroo (#249)

This notion of "free fall" has always been used by the TWOOFERS and it is an incorrect assumption for the top of either of the building for the calculation; it is utter nonsense.

Hahahahhaa.

More back pedaling after they themselves use 9.22 seconds as evidenced on Rosie's video clip.

Where she's obviously parroting something she doesn't understand the least from a CT website.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-19   15:43:57 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#256. To: AGAviator (#252)

More back pedaling after they themselves use 9.22 seconds as evidenced on Rosie's video clip.

Rosie is obviously brighter than you.

You don't judge collapse time for only PART of the building collapsing, you INCLUDE the ENTIRE building from the very top.

Do they give you stupid pills on your job?

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19   16:17:16 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#260. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#256)

You don't judge collapse time for only PART of the building collapsing, you INCLUDE the ENTIRE building from the very top.

You're the people bantering around the "9.22 seconds," "physical impossibility" phrases.

You've had over 8 years and still can't come up with coherent, supportable, verifiable versions of events.

Take another few years to get your stories straight. It's not like anybody will be holding their breaths.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-19   16:23:54 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#263. To: AGAviator, buckeroo (#260)

You're the people bantering around the "9.22 seconds," "physical impossibility" phrases.

Yep, the building SHOULD NOT HAVE collapsed as if it were falling through a vacuum, yet buck's expert "calculated" precisely that.

Do you and he subscribe to "Junk Science Monthly"? Or do you just make this shit up as you go?

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19   16:26:19 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#309. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#263) (Edited)

Yep, the building SHOULD NOT HAVE collapsed as if it were falling through a vacuum, yet buck's expert "calculated" precisely that.

There is a very good reason why real world controlled demolition uses so much time, energy, and materials to create conditions getting as close to free fall speeds as possible.

And the consequence of this reason is, if the collapse does not approach free fall speeds, it wasn't done by professional controlled demolition experts.

The reason is, it is known with complete certainty that the force of gravity, if unobstructed by other forces, will pull the building straight down into its own footprint. Where it can be neatly disposed of without damage to anything else not intended to be destroyed.

When the structure is not sufficiently prepared by getting rid of any and all remaining obstacles in the way of straight down vertical collapse, there are additional uncertainties introduced of timing, and rerouting gravitational forces in lines other than straight up and down.

So professional demolitions people take extra time to make sure the fall will be as close to vertical free fall speeds as possible to avoid introducing other variables which may cause unpredicable unmanageable results.

If a building doesn't fall at close to free fall speeds, its fall has not been set up by controlled demolition. Fifeeen seconds vs. nine seconds for a collapse is not even close to free fall speeds. The controlled demolition theory is debunked by actual and observed free fall speeds indicating lack of thorough setup for a building collapse many times larger than the largest recorded CD.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-19   18:00:50 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#316. To: AGAviator (#309)

If a building doesn't fall at close to free fall speeds, its fall has not been set up by controlled demolition. Fifeeen seconds vs. nine seconds for a collapse is not even close to free fall speeds. The controlled demolition theory is debunked by actual and observed free fall speeds indicating lack of thorough setup for a building collapse many times larger than the largest recorded CD.

Wrong. All the demolition has to do is START the collapse, and with strategically placed charges and computer aided timing, the collapse can take however long they want it to in terms of structural collapse below the initial point of failure.

Thing is, it collapsed WAY too fast for gravity to have done it alone, where a falling body meeting resistance slows down, and the resistance may eventually give way, but it takes some finite amount of time for that to happen.

You're saying it took 6 seconds to smash and break EVERY iota of resistance, since the 9 seconds of falling through a vacuum doesn't correlate with the time it took to overcome the resistance.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19   18:19:08 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#318. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#316)

All the demolition has to do is START the collapse

But a demolition did not start the collapses. The jet crashes did.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-19   18:23:11 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#321. To: buckeroo (#318)

But a demolition did not start the collapses. The jet crashes did.

Er, no buckie. The buildings did NOT start to fall down when they were hit. They did NOT start to fall till the precise time they collapsed.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19   18:25:26 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#323. To: FormerLurker (#321)

The buildings did NOT start to fall down when they were hit.

So there was no debris scattered around immediately after the impacts?

They did NOT start to fall till the precise time they collapsed.

Not much time... it was amazing they stood for so long ... but it took time for the central structure to lose stress capability that caused the later crush down phase.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-19   18:29:25 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#326. To: buckeroo (#323)

So there was no debris scattered around immediately after the impacts?

Well they DID find a passport, but not much of the aircraft. Besides the exit hole debris, nope.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19   18:36:29 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#329. To: FormerLurker (#326)

But where were the demolitions placed and by whom? You worry about some silly passport when the challenge of this thread is about demolition theory.... why did you do that?

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-19   18:40:27 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#340. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent, abraxas, James Deffenbach, wudidiz, ALL (#329)

But where were the demolitions placed and by whom? You worry about some silly passport when the challenge of this thread is about demolition theory.... why did you do that?

You have to look at the totality of the evidence, not just what you wish to cherry pick.

As far as where they were placed and by whom, well if we had the answer to that there would be some arrests going on right now wouldn't there.

I can GUESS that they were placed in the elevator shafts during the work which was done prior to 9/11, and that those workers doing that work are the ones who actually planted the explosives.

Anybody ever investigate them, look into who exactly did the work?

Oh golly gee willickers, it looks like those records were DESTROYED on 9/11.

Port Authority of NY/NJ: Records For Reported WTC Renovation Work Destroyed On 9/11

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19   19:00:14 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#344. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#340)

You have to look at the totality of the evidence, not just what you wish to cherry pick.

BY GOLLY .. looking at your earlier post, you found a passport to PROVE/DISPROVE demolition theory .... good job!

As far as where they [demolitions] were placed and by whom, well if we had the answer to that there would be some arrests going on right now wouldn't there.

Beats me. In fact, if the government intended some covert activity as you say, why wouldn't they kill all the complicity folks... after-all, if the government murdered thousands of innocent people ... the immediate perpetrators should be easy targets as well. The problem with this idea is that who kills the top dawg?

I can GUESS that they were placed in the elevator shafts during the work which was done prior to 9/11, and that those workers doing that work are the ones who actually planted the explosives.

But why would the government do this?

Anybody ever investigate them, look into who exactly did the work?

All records of the BLDGS were destroyed that day.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-19   19:09:52 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 344.

#345. To: buckeroo (#344)

But why would the government do this?

The correct question would be, why would those who pull the STRINGS of the government do this...

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19 19:11:02 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#348. To: buckeroo (#344)

if the government intended some covert activity as you say, why wouldn't they kill all the complicity folks... after-all, if the government murdered thousands of innocent people

Who's to say they didn't? Not the higher ups, of course, but those doing the "dirty work". They could have been foreign nationals who didn't have a problem with it, and who were highly trained operatives of some intelligence agency or special forces group, who knows...

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19 19:14:18 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#351. To: buckeroo (#344)

All records of the BLDGS were destroyed that day.

Not all, if you bothered reading the link I posted.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19 19:17:04 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#372. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, James Deffenbach, abraxas, all (#344)

But why would the government do this?

Earth to buck!

Earth to buck!

Do you read me buck?

It was a PsyOp buck!

I repeat - it was a PsyOp buck.

It is spelled out right in the PNAC report i.e., "a new Pearl Harbor". A rather appropriate comparison too given that the Japanese were maneuvered into attacking by FDR, who knew the attack was coming, withheld the information from the Base Commander and CINCPACFLT, and then court martialed them as the cherry on top.

The obvious motivation was to create a psychological environment among the American Public which would support the wars in the Middle East taking out Israel's geopolitical rivals, and preventing Saddam from flooding the Oil Market with cheap Iraqi Oil.

So, what was needed was an event horrendous enough and numbing enough to allow passage of such as the Un-Patriot Act, all ten thousands pages of which were put forth the week after 911 (you don't write a ten thousand page bill in a week so obviously it was already on the shelf and waiting), and passed without printed copies ever being distributed to the Congress. This is right out of the Tavistock Manual that got leaked during the Kosovo massacre. Tavistock Institute is Britain's premier Psychiatric Think Tank and PsyOps Factory. Why even one of the 7/7 bombers blew up in front of Tavistock. Talk about synergy.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-19 19:59:12 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 344.

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