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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 24027
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#327. To: Original_Intent (#324)
That was many floors below both towers from the immediate impact consuming as many as 6 floors each initially. The initial crashes were at 96th and 81st stories, so your point doesn't stand up .... other than substantiate that EVEN lower floors were being devastated.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Not amazing at all, what's amazing is that they fell at all, never mind disintegrate into dust while coming down close to free fall speeds.
But where were the demolitions placed and by whom? You worry about some silly passport when the challenge of this thread is about demolition theory.... why did you do that?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
One more time and I'll ask you REAL slow........ Accelerate from WHAT? From free fall speed? What Newton's wonderful experiment showed was that if you drop a penny and a semi truck from the same height, with NO resitance, the two fall at the SAME SPEED. The semi doesn't fall faster because it is bigger and heavier. In the case of these buildings--you have tens of lower floors, that were no where near any magical jet fuel, that were built to hold the weight of all the floors above them, that don't seem to make it into your calculations in regards to the RESISTANCE they would offer. In the case of WT7, you have 47 FLOORS that didn't have any magical jetfuel or even A PLANE CRASH into it--yet it simply falls into it's own footprint at NEAR free fall speeds. Newton and I call BS on that story.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
ROTFL .... no building is designed to withstand that kind of impact.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Go fetch your Newton for a better argument....
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
There is not much of a difference between the 78th floor and the 81st floor, EACH plane banked before it hit and the wings tore into multiple floors. I will grant that we have a calculation from Newton that demonstrates the FREE FALL Speeds we are discussing here. So, in this calculation this would be a constant because there is no variance. If Buck wishes to concede that he is using the free fall speed as a constant, then we have a place to work from. However, Buck refuses to peg his concept of acceleration against the free fall speed calculation. I can't figure out what he deems to be accelerating in relation to anything else, nor can he tell me. I think he is being coy because he knows if we are gaging his "acceleration" against the free fall constant, that the RESISTANCE is completely ignored when the whole thing falls damn near free fall speed.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
The external wall was designed as a screen net, where you can poke a pencil through it without damaging the entire screen. The internal core was built of extremely thick and heavy steel columns, and if you look at the impact of WTC2, the jet went in on an angle and crossed the outer section of the tower, with the debris and fireball exiting out the near corner. So not only was the damage mostly to the exterior wall, which was largely there to hang windows and offer lateral support against winds, but the inner core was largely unaffected in terms of actual impact. It more than likely suffered damage due to the initial explosion, and that is what damaged the elevators, but IF the core had been bent and started to sag, the sag would have been noticable, and the windows and exterior wall would have started breaking LONG before the actual collapse. The building WAS in fact designed to withstand impacts of heavy jets, the speed of which is debatable, but they were in fact designed to handle those sorts of things.
Granted... still, according to O_I, the 78th floor was already being consumed while the major fires were above. I don't know about you but the last time I heard of heat dissipation was that it generally tends upward. As for the scattered fires on lower floors, of course... and that same creep occurred as the central core weakened.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
So what IS your excuse for WT7? Also the architect for those buildings claims they were indeed made to endure the impact of a 747. Also, this architect calls BS on much of the story......he has far more experience in this field than you do Buck. "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
BS... if anything, I agree about the resistive characteristics of the lower floors supporting the idea that the WTC BLDGS did not freefall. But that doesn't mean acceleration didn't take place; it just means that CD wasn't used and observable FACT supports my contention.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Acceleration from free fall? We have a building falling at NEAR free fall speeeds. Tell me what you are claiming acceleration from Buck? This is a simple questions I've asked six or twelve times now............
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
You have to look at the totality of the evidence, not just what you wish to cherry pick. As far as where they were placed and by whom, well if we had the answer to that there would be some arrests going on right now wouldn't there. I can GUESS that they were placed in the elevator shafts during the work which was done prior to 9/11, and that those workers doing that work are the ones who actually planted the explosives. Anybody ever investigate them, look into who exactly did the work? Oh golly gee willickers, it looks like those records were DESTROYED on 9/11. Port Authority of NY/NJ: Records For Reported WTC Renovation Work Destroyed On 9/11
Your story is FALSE or fabricated. The twins were designed for a 707 as in a FOG with a velocity well below 550mi/hr. (For you, that means much less inertial force as what occurred on 9/11 by the relative impacts caused by terrorist crashes)
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
There were fires on the 78th floor as well buck, in fact, there'd probably be more fuel there than on the higher floors, since it would have spilt DOWN from the upper floors.
Also the architect for those buildings claims they were indeed made to endure the impact of a 747. Also, this architect calls BS on much of the story......he has far more experience in this field than you do Buck. Buck just keeps on repeating those old discredited canards. I wonder why.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. BY GOLLY .. looking at your earlier post, you found a passport to PROVE/DISPROVE demolition theory .... good job! Beats me. In fact, if the government intended some covert activity as you say, why wouldn't they kill all the complicity folks... after-all, if the government murdered thousands of innocent people ... the immediate perpetrators should be easy targets as well. The problem with this idea is that who kills the top dawg? But why would the government do this? All records of the BLDGS were destroyed that day.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The correct question would be, why would those who pull the STRINGS of the government do this...
You prove, once again, that you don't know wtf you are talking about. Statements by Engineers Engineers who participated in the design of the World Trade Center have stated, since the attack, that the Towers were designed to withstand jetliner collisions. For example, Leslie Robertson, who is featured on many documentaries about the attack, said he "designed it for a (Boeing) 707 to hit it." 2 Statements and documents predating the attack indicate that engineers considered the effects of not only of jetliner impacts, but also of ensuing fires. John Skilling John Skilling was the head structural engineer for the World Trade Center. In a 1993 interview, Skilling stated that the Towers were designed to withstand the impact and fires resulting from the collision of a large jetliner such as Boeing 707 or Douglas DC-8. Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, ... The building structure would still be there. 3 A white paper released on February 3, 1964 states that the Towers could have withstood impacts of jetliners traveling 600 mph -- a speed greater than the impact speed of either jetliner used on 9/11/01. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. The whole purpose of the extensive preparation for controlled demolitions is to remove as much resistance to straight down free fall as possible. If the resistance has not been removed, then there has not been controlled demolition preparation. Whether the resistance comes from structural parts - which get removed prior to crash impact of the faliing floors - or an air cushion - which can be deflated by blowing out air passages prior to crash impact of falling floors - the resistance must be removed as much as possible, so the timing and the collapse direction are both as predicable and controllable as possible.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who's to say they didn't? Not the higher ups, of course, but those doing the "dirty work". They could have been foreign nationals who didn't have a problem with it, and who were highly trained operatives of some intelligence agency or special forces group, who knows...
If the resistance has not been removed, then there has not been controlled demolition preparation. If you place explosives into a building and control the detonation, it is a controlled demolition, whether or not a delay is used. Geesh, still munching on those stupid pills?
Thank you for verifying my earlier post. You are dynamite!
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Not all, if you bothered reading the link I posted.
Yeah, flying at 600 mph. A 707 is comparable to a 767.
Buck, you are indeed a dumb@$$ or play the part very well. A 707 is not a lot smaller than a 767. If you want to educate yourself just a little--and even a little would help you a lot--click on that handy link I provided for you. edit: I will help you out this much more and then you are on your own. Given the differences in cruise speeds, a 707 in normal flight would actually have more kinetic energy than a 767, despite the slightly smaller size. Note the similar fuel capacities of both aircraft. The 767s used on September 11th were estimated to be carrying about 10,000 gallons of fuel each at the time of impact, only about 40% of the capacity of a 707 (fuel capacity for the 707 is 23,000 gallons, the 767 is 23,980).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Because that is all he has. The Pop Mechanics piece has been shredded and proven false. The NOVA piece has been shredded and proven false. The FEMA Report has been shredded and proven false. The NIST Report has been shown evasive and incomplete including speculation along side fact. And it provides NO analysis as to why the buildings collapsed in the manner they did they just wave it off with a shrug saying "it was inevitable". Of course the report does not address why it was inevitable or the mechanism by which it worked. They don't even use Eager's "Pancakes". Oh, Professor Eager is virtually the only high profile academic who still supports the Official Conspiracy Theory™ but he will not submit to interviewing nor does he provide any documentation, calculations, etc., which support the Official Conspiracy Theory™. About the only thing left to the defender of 911 Lies is to repeat the same objections, and Strawman Arguments over and over ad nauseam. They can produce nothing definitive proving the Official Conspiracy Theory™.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
The twins were designed for a 707 as in a FOG with a velocity well below 550mi/hr. (For you, that means much less inertial force as what occurred on 9/11 by the relative impacts caused by terrorist crashes) You prove, once again, that you don't know wtf you are talking about. No, Tw00fster, you don't know WTF you're talking about. Federal airspace rules prohibit any commercial aircraft from going over 250 KIAS below 10,000 altitude or in "Class B airspace" which surrounds jet airports. New York City is completely covered by both restrictions. There would be no reason to design a building able to withstand a crash whose speed presumably never would be allowed by Air Traffic Control in the first place. Furthermore, structural engineer calculations aren't built in mockups and then tested to make sure the calculations are correct. Last but not least, there is no record of a design specifying a 500 mph impact. This is hearsay unsupported by any files. If you have a file supporting 500 mph impact of a 707/767 the produce it. You lie, you lose.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Only YOU have introduced these documents Only YOU have introduced these documents Only YOU have introduced these documents In effect, you are what you preach.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Eager's salary may depend on him not understanding that he is lying. Or at least to not admit it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Well then, you've lost long ago if that's true...
LOL. The scenario they're quoting to support their CT says the fuel gets dumped inside the building, While elsewhere they argue against thermal energy from the 767's by saying the jet fuel mostly burns harmlessly outside the outer walls.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Skilling was the head structural engineer for the World Trade Center. In a 1993 interview, Skilling stated that the Towers were designed to withstand the impact and fires resulting from the collision of a large jetliner such as Boeing 707 or Douglas DC-8. Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, ... The building structure would still be there. So now you are backing off from your own authoritative source? Why is that? Are you doubting yourself or can't produce a single post worth my time considering the demolition theory? Mayhaps you just want to argue.... but your own resource says what I have discussed.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I know. They are actually agreeing with the FACT that no demolitions were used.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
So now NIST and FEMA are "CT'ers"? They're the ones who stated the obvious, in that the majority of the fuel was expended in the fireballs, and that the remaining fuel was spent in the first several minutes after impact.
Liar. According to AGovShill's rules, you LOSE.
Where were the demolitions placed? Where is the timing of the demolitions? Who performed the demolitions? Who paid for the demolitions? Why were the demolitions placed? How and what kind of demolitions were placed? Until you can answer these simple questions, you should look at yourself, pal.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The whole purpose of the extensive preparation for controlled demolitions is to remove as much resistance to straight down free fall as possible. If the resistance has not been removed, then there has not been controlled demolition preparation. Whether the resistance comes from structural parts - which get removed prior to crash impact of the faliing floors - or an air cushion - which can be deflated by blowing out air passages prior to crash impact of falling floors - the resistance must be removed as much as possible, so the timing and the collapse direction are both as predicable and controllable as possible. The problem of course with your assumptions is that they are just that - not facts. One could just as easily posit that the planners of the 911 event designed it with the cover story in mind. After all it was a PsyOp and they had no desire to be hung from a stout rope. So, one can presume that they wished to make it look close to a natural collapse while avoiding damage to nearby buildings. At which they were reasonably successful. However, given the uniform, symmetrical, collapse into their own footprint the image of a controlled demolition could not not be wholly avoided. Neither could they avoid that neither before nor since has a similar structure collapsed in this fashion except from a controlled demolition. Given the rate of collapse of the structures and your presumption that in a controlled demolition that as much as possible the resistance under the structure must be removed appears to be met by the observed phenomena. As well is the curious fact that the tower hit last, with the least damage to the core, given the impact and exit angles, collapsed first. That in and of itself is an interesting datum.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You can't be as idiotic as this makes you look. If you were you couldn't even turn a computer on, much less use it. But to answer your stupid question, no, I am not backing off from any source I have posted. They made the point that a 767 is not much larger than a 707 and that the towers were indeed designed to withstand the impact of commercial airliners--and one would assume airplanes with fuel, they rarely fly without it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Until you can answer these simple questions, you should look at yourself, pal. Who screwed up the Deepwater Horizon? What was his name? Who gave him his orders? Who told the Coast Guard to drive journalists away from the oil cleanup sites? What were their names? Don't get cute with me there bucko. Just because the people who are SUPPOSED to investigate these things DIDN'T, and instead played a game of high stakes geopolitical conquest and clamped down on the US People with their draconian new laws, doesn't mean there isn't a guilty party behind it all.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestBattalion Chief Orio Palmer and his crew reached the 78th floor of the South Tower and Chief Palmer radioed back that there were isolated pockets of fire and that he would need two hoses and crews to "knock the flames down". That does not sound like a raging inferno.
#328. To: buckeroo (#323)
Not much time... it was amazing they stood for so long ... but it took time for the central structure to lose stress capability that caused the later crush down phase.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#329. To: FormerLurker (#326)
#330. To: buckeroo (#322)
#331. To: FormerLurker (#328)
what's amazing is that they fell at all
#332. To: abraxas (#330)
Newton and I call BS on that story.
#333. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent (#327)
so your point doesn't stand up .... other than substantiate that EVEN lower floors were being devastated
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#334. To: FormerLurker (#325)
to be fair I have to say that acceleration due to Earth's gravity, here close to the Earth's surface IS in fact constant, and is approximately 32.2 feet per second per second. In other words, an object will accelerate 32 feet per second for each second it falls through a vacuum. Air resistance will slow it down a bit, depending on the size and shape of the object.
#335. To: buckeroo (#331)
ROTFL .... no building is designed to withstand that kind of impact.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#336. To: FormerLurker (#333)
There is not much of a difference between the 78th floor and the 81st floor
#337. To: buckeroo (#331)
no building is designed to withstand that kind of impact.
#338. To: abraxas (#334)
However, Buck refuses to peg his concept of acceleration against the free fall speed calculation.
#339. To: buckeroo (#338)
#340. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent, abraxas, James Deffenbach, wudidiz, ALL (#329)
But where were the demolitions placed and by whom? You worry about some silly passport when the challenge of this thread is about demolition theory.... why did you do that?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#341. To: abraxas (#337)
Also the architect for those buildings claims they were indeed made to endure the impact of a 747.
#342. To: buckeroo (#336)
Granted... still, according to O_I, the 78th floor was already being consumed while the major fires were above.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#343. To: abraxas (#337)
So what IS your excuse for WT7?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#344. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#340)
You have to look at the totality of the evidence, not just what you wish to cherry pick.
As far as where they [demolitions] were placed and by whom, well if we had the answer to that there would be some arrests going on right now wouldn't there.
I can GUESS that they were placed in the elevator shafts during the work which was done prior to 9/11, and that those workers doing that work are the ones who actually planted the explosives.
Anybody ever investigate them, look into who exactly did the work?
#345. To: buckeroo (#344)
But why would the government do this?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#346. To: buckeroo (#341)
The twins were designed for a 707 as in a FOG with a velocity well below 550mi/hr. (For you, that means much less inertial force as what occurred on 9/11 by the relative impacts caused by terrorist crashes)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#347. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#316)
You're saying it took 6 seconds to smash and break EVERY iota of resistance, since the 9 seconds of falling through a vacuum doesn't correlate with the time it took to overcome the resistance.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#348. To: buckeroo (#344)
if the government intended some covert activity as you say, why wouldn't they kill all the complicity folks... after-all, if the government murdered thousands of innocent people
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#349. To: AGAviator (#347)
The whole purpose of the extensive preparation for controlled demolitions is to remove as much resistance to straight down free fall as possible.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#350. To: James Deffenbach (#346)
John Skilling was the head structural engineer for the World Trade Center. In a 1993 interview, Skilling stated that the Towers were designed to withstand the impact and fires resulting from the collision of a large jetliner such as Boeing 707 or Douglas DC-8. Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, ... The building structure would still be there.
#351. To: buckeroo (#344)
All records of the BLDGS were destroyed that day.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#352. To: buckeroo (#350)
a large jetliner such as Boeing 707 or Douglas DC-8
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#353. To: buckeroo (#350)
(Edited)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#354. To: James Deffenbach, abraxas, FormerLurker, Buckmonster Fullofit, buckeroo, all (#343)
Buck just keeps on repeating those old discredited canards. I wonder why.
#355. To: James Deffenbach, buckeroo (#346)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#356. To: Original_Intent (#354)
The Pop Mechanics piece has been shredded and proven false.
The NOVA piece has been shredded and proven false.
The FEMA Report has been shredded and proven false.
#357. To: Original_Intent (#354)
Oh, Professor Eager is virtually the only high profile academic who still supports the Official Conspiracy Theory™ but he will not submit to interviewing nor does he provide any documentation, calculations, etc., which support the Official Conspiracy Theory™.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#358. To: AGAviator (#355)
You lie, you lose.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#359. To: buckeroo (#350)
Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#360. To: James Deffenbach (#353)
#361. To: AGAviator (#359)
#362. To: AGAviator (#359)
While elsewhere they argue against thermal energy from the 767's by saying the jet fuel mostly burns harmlessly outside the outer walls.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#363. To: buckeroo (#361)
They are actually agreeing with the FACT that no demolitions were used.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#364. To: FormerLurker (#363)
Liar.
#365. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, James Deffenbach, abraxas, IRTorqued, wuddiz, all (#347)
You're saying it took 6 seconds to smash and break EVERY iota of resistance, since the 9 seconds of falling through a vacuum doesn't correlate with the time it took to overcome the resistance.
#366. To: buckeroo (#360)
So now you are backing off from your own authoritative source? Why is that? Are you doubting yourself or can't produce a single post worth my time considering the demolition theory?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#367. To: buckeroo (#364)
Where were the demolitions placed? Where is the timing of the demolitions? Who performed the demolitions? Who paid for the demolitions? Why were the demolitions placed? How and what kind of demolitions were placed?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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