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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 18955
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#356. To: Original_Intent (#354)
Only YOU have introduced these documents Only YOU have introduced these documents Only YOU have introduced these documents In effect, you are what you preach.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Eager's salary may depend on him not understanding that he is lying. Or at least to not admit it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Well then, you've lost long ago if that's true...
LOL. The scenario they're quoting to support their CT says the fuel gets dumped inside the building, While elsewhere they argue against thermal energy from the 767's by saying the jet fuel mostly burns harmlessly outside the outer walls.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Skilling was the head structural engineer for the World Trade Center. In a 1993 interview, Skilling stated that the Towers were designed to withstand the impact and fires resulting from the collision of a large jetliner such as Boeing 707 or Douglas DC-8. Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, ... The building structure would still be there. So now you are backing off from your own authoritative source? Why is that? Are you doubting yourself or can't produce a single post worth my time considering the demolition theory? Mayhaps you just want to argue.... but your own resource says what I have discussed.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I know. They are actually agreeing with the FACT that no demolitions were used.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
So now NIST and FEMA are "CT'ers"? They're the ones who stated the obvious, in that the majority of the fuel was expended in the fireballs, and that the remaining fuel was spent in the first several minutes after impact.
Liar. According to AGovShill's rules, you LOSE.
Where were the demolitions placed? Where is the timing of the demolitions? Who performed the demolitions? Who paid for the demolitions? Why were the demolitions placed? How and what kind of demolitions were placed? Until you can answer these simple questions, you should look at yourself, pal.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The whole purpose of the extensive preparation for controlled demolitions is to remove as much resistance to straight down free fall as possible. If the resistance has not been removed, then there has not been controlled demolition preparation. Whether the resistance comes from structural parts - which get removed prior to crash impact of the faliing floors - or an air cushion - which can be deflated by blowing out air passages prior to crash impact of falling floors - the resistance must be removed as much as possible, so the timing and the collapse direction are both as predicable and controllable as possible. The problem of course with your assumptions is that they are just that - not facts. One could just as easily posit that the planners of the 911 event designed it with the cover story in mind. After all it was a PsyOp and they had no desire to be hung from a stout rope. So, one can presume that they wished to make it look close to a natural collapse while avoiding damage to nearby buildings. At which they were reasonably successful. However, given the uniform, symmetrical, collapse into their own footprint the image of a controlled demolition could not not be wholly avoided. Neither could they avoid that neither before nor since has a similar structure collapsed in this fashion except from a controlled demolition. Given the rate of collapse of the structures and your presumption that in a controlled demolition that as much as possible the resistance under the structure must be removed appears to be met by the observed phenomena. As well is the curious fact that the tower hit last, with the least damage to the core, given the impact and exit angles, collapsed first. That in and of itself is an interesting datum.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You can't be as idiotic as this makes you look. If you were you couldn't even turn a computer on, much less use it. But to answer your stupid question, no, I am not backing off from any source I have posted. They made the point that a 767 is not much larger than a 707 and that the towers were indeed designed to withstand the impact of commercial airliners--and one would assume airplanes with fuel, they rarely fly without it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Until you can answer these simple questions, you should look at yourself, pal. Who screwed up the Deepwater Horizon? What was his name? Who gave him his orders? Who told the Coast Guard to drive journalists away from the oil cleanup sites? What were their names? Don't get cute with me there bucko. Just because the people who are SUPPOSED to investigate these things DIDN'T, and instead played a game of high stakes geopolitical conquest and clamped down on the US People with their draconian new laws, doesn't mean there isn't a guilty party behind it all.
Wow, Buck, all of these questions.....it appears you are seeking the truth of the matter. You must be a truther. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Jimmy: John Skilling was the head structural engineer for the World Trade Center. In a 1993 interview, Skilling stated that the Towers were designed to withstand the impact and fires resulting from the collision of or Douglas DC-8. Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, ... The building structure would still be there. What ever you say.... ROTFL.....
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
9/11 Debunker Gets His Ass Handed To Him By Richard Gage - 20/07/2009 www.youtube.com/watch? v=VKFiGfW6aGY
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
ROTFL ... Where is at least one teeny, weenie, little ittsy-bitsy, tiny fact supporting any demolitions were used?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Earth to buck! Earth to buck! Do you read me buck? It was a PsyOp buck! I repeat - it was a PsyOp buck. It is spelled out right in the PNAC report i.e., "a new Pearl Harbor". A rather appropriate comparison too given that the Japanese were maneuvered into attacking by FDR, who knew the attack was coming, withheld the information from the Base Commander and CINCPACFLT, and then court martialed them as the cherry on top. The obvious motivation was to create a psychological environment among the American Public which would support the wars in the Middle East taking out Israel's geopolitical rivals, and preventing Saddam from flooding the Oil Market with cheap Iraqi Oil. So, what was needed was an event horrendous enough and numbing enough to allow passage of such as the Un-Patriot Act, all ten thousands pages of which were put forth the week after 911 (you don't write a ten thousand page bill in a week so obviously it was already on the shelf and waiting), and passed without printed copies ever being distributed to the Congress. This is right out of the Tavistock Manual that got leaked during the Kosovo massacre. Tavistock Institute is Britain's premier Psychiatric Think Tank and PsyOps Factory. Why even one of the 7/7 bombers blew up in front of Tavistock. Talk about synergy.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Anyone that thinks jet fuel would generate the heat needed to take these towers down might think planes fly without fuel. Both notions are the same level of dumbness.
Eager's salary may depend on him not understanding that he is lying. Or at least to not admit it. Oh, I'm sure it does. It is well known the M.I.T. has deep ties to the black budget community - specifically CIA. Eager appears to have been brought on board to provide "credibility" to the preposterous Official Conspiracy Theory™. However, he can only do so much with a set of facts which require multiple twists and turns to fit the Approved Story®. Those twists, turns, and distortions that he must use to support the Approved Story® are why he dare not allow himself to be questioned or interviewed by someone knowledgeable about the Official Conspiracy Theory™ and Engineering/Physics - he would be ripped apart and shredded like a cheap suit in a rain storm.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Link please.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Because it seems that ol bucky boy has gone shill on us. Tis a shame.
The Pop Mechanics piece has been shredded and proven false.
The NOVA piece has been shredded and proven false.
The FEMA Report has been shredded and proven false.
#357. To: Original_Intent (#354)
Oh, Professor Eager is virtually the only high profile academic who still supports the Official Conspiracy Theory™ but he will not submit to interviewing nor does he provide any documentation, calculations, etc., which support the Official Conspiracy Theory™.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#358. To: AGAviator (#355)
You lie, you lose.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#359. To: buckeroo (#350)
Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#360. To: James Deffenbach (#353)
#361. To: AGAviator (#359)
#362. To: AGAviator (#359)
While elsewhere they argue against thermal energy from the 767's by saying the jet fuel mostly burns harmlessly outside the outer walls.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#363. To: buckeroo (#361)
They are actually agreeing with the FACT that no demolitions were used.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#364. To: FormerLurker (#363)
Liar.
#365. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, James Deffenbach, abraxas, IRTorqued, wuddiz, all (#347)
You're saying it took 6 seconds to smash and break EVERY iota of resistance, since the 9 seconds of falling through a vacuum doesn't correlate with the time it took to overcome the resistance.
#366. To: buckeroo (#360)
So now you are backing off from your own authoritative source? Why is that? Are you doubting yourself or can't produce a single post worth my time considering the demolition theory?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#367. To: buckeroo (#364)
Where were the demolitions placed? Where is the timing of the demolitions? Who performed the demolitions? Who paid for the demolitions? Why were the demolitions placed? How and what kind of demolitions were placed?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#368. To: buckeroo (#364)
Where were the demolitions placed? Where is the timing of the demolitions? Who performed the demolitions? Who paid for the demolitions? Why were the demolitions placed? How and what kind of demolitions were placed?
#369. To: James Deffenbach (#366)
Jimmy: But to answer your stupid[?] question, no, I am not backing off from any source I have posted.
#370. To: buckeroo (#369)
#371. To: FormerLurker (#367)
Don't get cute with me there bucko.
#372. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, James Deffenbach, abraxas, all (#344)
But why would the government do this?
#373. To: James Deffenbach (#366)
"...airplanes with fuel, they rarely fly without it."
#374. To: James Deffenbach (#357)
Oh, Professor Eager is virtually the only high profile academic who still supports the Official Conspiracy Theory™ but he will not submit to interviewing nor does he provide any documentation, calculations, etc., which support the Official Conspiracy Theory™.
#375. To: Original_Intent (#372)
#376. To: James Deffenbach, abraxas, buckeroo (#343)
Buck just keeps on repeating those old discredited canards. I wonder why.
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#377. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#358)
Loser, here is a partial list of deficiencies you cannot answer with any satisfaction. As time goes on the list will get bigger. Just as a partial list, you've been provided explicit proofs of the following phenomena and many others. Well then, you've lost long ago
(1) Two aircraft crashes released gigajoules of kinetic energy into the Twin Tower structures, and within 2 hours both structures collapsed from structural damage,
That's just a partial list of the issues about which you and your cotiere have been batted on from one end of the forum to another. There are plenty of others. Your attempts to evade and make things personal is noted, as well as noted as being unsuccessful.
(2) A fireman is recorded on video saying a third WTC Building, WTC7, will be going down because the building is losing its structural stability from crash damage and uncontrolled fires,
(3) Over 30 calls from hijacked aircraft were logged including several by flight attendants giving seat numbers and descriptions of hijackers,
(4) The false statement that Flight 77's cabin door was not opened has been demonstrated to be a lie, as there is no evidence about any cabin door operation of that aircraft either during or before the September 11 flight,
(5) The lauded "peer review publication" of Tw00ferk00ks Steven Jones and Niels Harrit have been shown to be pay-to- publish articles for which $800 was given to a Dhubai publishing mill, with zero other peer reviewed articles
(6) The phrase "pull" as used by the demolition industry means "pull down with cables," and as used by firefighters means "pull back from site,"
(7) Flight 77 impacted a recently-renovated portion of the Pentagon which was not fully occupied and still had construction equipment in place, and
(8) It's a physical impossibliity for a structure to both be flexible enough to absorb gigajoules of energy, move away from vertical centerline, return to vertical centerline on its own, then be rigid enough to provide a fixed platform for a rotating and falling top section to collapse outside the building footprint and
(9) The actual free fall times of the WTC towers have been conclusively shown as 15+ seconds for 1 tower and 22+ seconds for the other, an order of magnitude above the claimed "free fall time" of 9.22 seconds which is supposed to be evidence of a controlled demolition
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#378. To: Critter (#376)
Jim ... cool it! So far, no one has any data to present that dispels the official government account. I think the closest approach was some janitor that was in the basement of one of the towers screaming for his life because of the tremendous acoustical energy he dealt with. That proves nothing about demolitions.
Because it seems that ol bucky boy has gone shill on us.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#379. To: James Deffenbach, Orginal_Indent, buckeroo, turtle (#357) (Edited)
Oh, Professor Eager is virtually the only high profile academic who still supports the Official Conspiracy Theory™ but he will not submit to interviewing nor does he provide any documentation, calculations, etc., which support the Official Conspiracy Theory™. Eager's salary may depend on him not understanding that he is lying. Or at least to not admit it. BullShit. You people have already been challenged to prove any one of Eagar's 14 Patents or 230 Papers Peer Reviewed false, and none of you you has even attempted to do so, let alone find anything wrong with any of his achievements. Yet like the total moral coward you are, you anonymously attack Eagar as a liar without supplying any proof of your own.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#380. To: buckeroo (#369)
Does your salary depend on your not understanding simple facts, buck? Do they pay you enough to make yourself look so stupid?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#381. To: Critter (#376)
Yeah, who woulda thunk it? Buck never used to come across as a shill but the government doesn't seem to have a better friend these days, what with all his lies about how they wouldn't do anything like that while he overlooks all the overt murdering they have done.
Because it seems that ol bucky boy has gone shill on us. Tis a shame.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#382. To: James Deffenbach (#380)
Do you stand by your own posts? .. Jimmy says: thus agreeing with buckeroo that the design of the BLDGS were out of parameters on 9/11
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#383. To: AGAviator, James Deffenbach, Original_Indent (#379)
Show where in Eager's analysis he treats the collapse as a set of inelastic collsions, and where he states kinetic energy can't be used in the momentum calculations since at least some of the kinetic energy was transfered to other forms of energy.
Yet like the total moral coward you are, you anonymously attack Eagar as a liar without supplying any proof of your own.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#384. To: buckeroo, FormerLurker, wudidiz, IRTorqued, abraxas, all (#375)
The CIA on Campus The CIA Meets MIT@Everything2.com Political Friendster - CIA - Connections Ralph McGehee: CIA Past, Present and Future, Part I MIT Enterprise Forum - Entrepreneurship Broadcast Science, Technology and Nation-Building in - 1 1 Exporting MIT ... (pdf download) Tavistock: The Best Kept Secret in America Panetta to Be Named C.I.A. Director - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com If I wanted to spend the time I could dig out a lot more. However, as you can see, there are plenty of links.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
#385. To: AGAviator (#377)
6 seconds to break and smash every supporting piece of the structure is not enough time to do so.
The actual free fall times of the WTC towers have been conclusively shown as 15+ seconds for 1 tower and 22+ seconds for the other, an order of magnitude above the claimed "free fall time" of 9.22 seconds which is supposed to be evidence of a controlled demolition
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#386. To: James Deffenbach, buckeroo (#381)
First global warming, then peak oil, now official conspiracy theory? Where does it end? Next he'll be saying that Bill Clinton was the best president since George Washington himself.
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#387. To: buckeroo (#382)
Just keep it up, buck. It only makes you look even more stupid than you already did.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#388. To: buckeroo (#371)
Do you have anything between your ears other than balls of wax? It's been explained to you OVER, and OVER, and OVER. That you can't or won't understand it is your problem, not mine.
Where is at least one teeny, weenie, little ittsy-bitsy, tiny fact supporting any demolitions were used?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#389. To: Critter (#386)
Nah, he will be saying Obama is.
Next he'll be saying that Bill Clinton was the best president since George Washington himself.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#390. To: AGAviator (#377)
Uh huh, and 7-9 of those 19 James Bond like characters are still alive and well, as reported by international news agencies. Yea, and those cell phone calls were impossible back in 2001, while at cruising altitude and speed.
Over 30 calls from hijacked aircraft were logged including several by flight attendants giving seat numbers and descriptions of hijackers,
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#391. To: Critter (#386)
LOL, that's the trifecta right there.
First global warming, then peak oil, now official conspiracy theory?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#392. To: AGAviator (#379) (Edited)
Eager's salary may depend on him not understanding that he is lying. Or at least to not admit it. BullShit. You people have already been challenged to prove any one of Eagar's 14 Patents or 230 Papers Peer Reviewed false, and none of you you has even attempted to do so, let alone find anything wrong with any of his achievements. Yet like the total moral coward you are, you anonymously attack Eagar as a liar without supplying any proof of your own. I could give a rat's behind how many patents or papers Eager has or has published. That is an appeal to authority which is one of the logical fallacies. It has no evidenciary weight. All it establishes is that yes, Eager has patented and published. It proves nothing in regard to his unsubstantiated opinion. It occurred to me after I posted this originally that your post qualifies for another award: Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit. Further I said there are no other academics of similar stature supporting him and he will not take interviews except from friendly sources. So you can whine all you want. The comment stands substantiated. Next.
Oh, Professor Eager is virtually the only high profile academic who still supports the Official Conspiracy Theory™ but he will not submit to interviewing nor does he provide any documentation, calculations, etc., which support the Official Conspiracy Theory™.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
#393. To: FormerLurker (#388)
Spell it out for me in a single post... do it here, on this thread about what has been explained. So far, I haven't seen any data or FACTS to support that a government agency set any demolition on 9/11. So now is your opportunity to clarify who, what, when, where and why it all transpired.
It's been explained to you OVER, and OVER, and OVER.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#394. To: AGAviator (#377)
Yet took out the "bean counters" who were investigating where all that missing money, you know, the missing 2.3 TRILLION DOLLARS, disappeared to. Oh yeah, and the aircraft diverted from a direct path to Rumsfeld's office, turned, and headed for the less occupied section of the building. All flown by a inept goober who couldn't fly a single engine Cessna.
Flight 77 impacted a recently-renovated portion of the Pentagon which was not fully occupied and still had construction equipment in place, and
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#395. To: James Deffenbach (#387)
Thank you Jimmy for introducing data about the fuel dump based upon the original design team's own fears. You are awesome! Cat got your tongue?
John Skilling was the head structural engineer for the World Trade Center. In a 1993 interview, Skilling stated that the Towers were designed to withstand the impact and fires resulting from the collision of a large jetliner such as Boeing 707 or Douglas DC-8.
Just keep it up, buck.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#396. To: buckeroo (#393)
Collapse would not have been symetrical, for one. It also would not have taken little more than a mere 6 extra seconds (the 15 second collapse time is a stretch, but we'll use it anyways to avoid quibling), to crush, smash, and break every bit and piece of the structure that was supporting the building. An actual collapse precipitated by structural damage would have been asymetrical, and more than likely would have stopped after the top of the building would have either wedged into the lower structure, or slid off. Additionally, in terms of the COVERUP, EVERY AND ANY terrorist act concerning buildings have involved explosives, and for the media and the "experts" to instantly "rule out" the possibility of explosives, and deride anyone who brings up the very notion of it being possible, wreaks of complicity. ALSO, the fact that the buildings DISINTEGRATED on their way down, where the vast majority of the towers turned to dust, raises questions as to whether such a thing happened due to gravity alone.
Spell it out for me in a single post... do it here, on this thread about what has been explained.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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