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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source: BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
Ping List: *4um PSY-OP Club*     Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*
Keywords: None
Views: 19316
Comments: 1209

An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks.

The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total.

One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition".

The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell.

Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York.

After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001.

This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking").

Resistance to collapse

Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.

Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures.

Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts.

"The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website.

Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse.

His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.

This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground.

'Fair assumption'

The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell".

"One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen.

The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings.

The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center.

This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers.

Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble.

Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse.

Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design. Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*

[Thread Locked]   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

He LANDED a 757 on the Pentagon lawn at 530 mph, short of putting down his wheels, and FLEW IT STRAIGHT INTO THE WALL. Of course such a feat is virtually IMPOSSIBLE, yet he supposedly did it anyways.

He didn't fly it straight into the wall.

(1) He hit the wall at an oblique angle which caused the aircraft to not achieve the maximum penatation of a 90 degree impact.

(2) He didn't land on the lawn. As I've repeatedly said ground effect makes an air cushion supporting nap of the earth lift the closer the fuselage and wings get to the ground.

(3) The wings were oscillating right up to final impact, clipping poles and brushing aside construction equipment, and ingesting a part of a luminary into the engine. This is not an under control approach or crash.

(4) The entire secion hit did minimum damage to American interests. The hit was not in a place doing any substantial damage to the US. This is because he was trying to salvage a hit on the building at all instead of hitting a high value section.

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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-20   14:09:08 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

But the ex-employee said Mr. Hanjour continued to pay to train on a simulator for Boeing 737 jets.

..."I'm still to this day amazed that he could have flown into the Pentagon," the former employee said. He could not fly at all."

That jumped out at me. A 737? Not a 757 or 767 which even a professional 737 pilot would not fly without a lot of hours in the simulator and a checkout flight or three?

Another significant datum as the cockpits on all 3 are different. If he couldn't fly a 737 he sure as hell could not fly a totally different airliner that was significantly larger.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-20   14:09:42 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

This more or less what you wanted?

The original of this page used to be at http://www.eionews.addr.com/psyops/plot_within_a_plot_part1.htm. But that page, and all other material on that site concerned with the WTC demolition, disappeared about 2001-10-21 without explanation. Consequently links in this page to that site, including links to all enlargements, except for Photos 6 and 9 and the photo of the hole in the North Tower, no longer work and have been disabled. The PDF version is viewable.

PDF Version HERE THE SPLIT-SECOND ERROR ...EXPOSING THE WTC BOMB PLOT... by Fintan Dunne, coEditor, PsyOpNews.com Research Kathy McMahon 18 September 2001 =" " href="mailto:%20news@psyopnews.com">mailto:%20news@psyopnews.com VIDEO Windows Mpeg THE HIJACK PILOT'S SPLIT SECOND ERROR 14 mins @ 56K "IT WAS DESIGNED FOR A PLANE IMPACT" Aaron Swirski, one of the architects of the World Trade Center, talks exclusively to Jerusalem Post Radio on the World Trade Center collapse. He says they designed the towers to withstand something like a plane flying into the side. For interview, Media Player JpRadio item ...Now working. 12th September, 2001 EXPLOSIVES EXPERT SAYS WTC WAS BOMBED Towers collapse "too methodical" CHARGES PLANTED TO TAKE DOWN BUILDING Van Romero, vice president for research at New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology says the collapse of the twin towers resembled those of controlled implosions used in planned demolition. "My opinion is, based on the videotapes, that after the airplanes hit the World Trade Center there were some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to collapse," Romero said. A demolition expert, Romero is a former director of the Energetic Materials Research and Testing Center at Tech, which studies explosive materials and the effects of explosions on buildings, aircraft and other structures. He said he and Denny Peterson, vice president for administration and finance, were en route to an office building near the Pentagon to discuss defense-funded research programs at Tech. Romero told the Albequerque Journal that he based his opinion on video aired on national television broadcasts. The detonations could have been caused by a small amount of explosive put in more than two points in each of the towers, he said. "It could have been a relatively small amount of explosives placed in strategic points," Romero said. BUILDING COLLAPSE SHOCKS WORLD TRADE CENTER ENGINEER, ARCHITECT "I DESIGNED IT FOR A 707 HIT" DETROIT, Sept. 11 (UPI) -- Lee Robertson, the project's structural engineer, addressed the problem of terrorism on high-rises at a conference in Frankfurt, Germany, LAST WEEK (!!!), Chicago engineer Joseph Burns told the Chicago Tribune. Burns said Robertson told the conference, "I designed it for a (Boeing)707 to hit it." UPI REPORT DETROIT, Sept. 11 (UPI) -- A lead engineer who worked on New York's World Trade Center Towers expressed shock Tuesday that the 110-story lanmarks in Lower Manhattan collapsed after each tower was struck by a hijacked passenger jetliner.

The determined man at the controls of Flight 175 was now less than one minute from his own demise, and was in that state of heightened alertness that only approaching death can generate.

Ahead, as he hurtled across New York towards Manhattan Island, he could see the vast plume of smoke (1). His colleague in Flight 11, approaching from the opposite direction had already made an almost perfect impact on the North Tower of the World Trade Center.

On the far side of the tower, concealed from his view, was the gash (2) where the hijacked airliner had spread its fuel payload over several floors of the building. Just as the trainers had coached.

But the sight still managed to unnerve him. It was one thing practicing the approach for countless hours on a computer simulator, but this was real life -and no mistake could be made. The planners had insisted that the planes must strike the towers at a banked angle. Otherwise the fire would be confined to only a couple of floors and would not set the building comprehensively alight. Without perfect execution, the imperialists would only suffer minor casualties, he had been told.

What they never told him was that the aircraft impacts were only one half of the plan. One visible and psychologically terrorizing aspect would be provided by the suicidal aircraft. But the other half of the plan was unknown to the two pilots and their accomplices. Bombs had already been planted inside both towers.

They would be detonated after the planes had struck, to ensure the total destruction of the buildings and their evidentiary contents. The bombs inside the towers were strapped to radio-trigger detonators. Other plotters would be near the scene -monitoring TV coverage to determine the right moment to push the final buttons. The full PsyOps (psychological-warfare) effect would be the complete disappearance of these two symbols of US confidence and power.

But if the plane struck at the wrong angle, or even worse -missed altogether, the whole scheme was in danger. Substantial fires were necessary as a cover for the subsequent collapse.

The planners had taken every precaution. Their flight approach paths were calculated to align the two towers as a single target -without a gap between them. His orders were clear. His target was the South Tower, but if the first plane struck the wrong tower, he was to switch to the other. In either event, he must strike at the remaining target with a military precision.

But he didn't. And that's where things began to go wrong.

BANKING ON SUCCESS

A straightforward level approach would have been so much easier. Just line up the towers in the cockpit window and plow straight in. This banked approach was much harder to accomplish. Imagine swinging a stone on the end of a string, aiming to strike a standing beer bottle. Imagine getting only one try. A fully laden 767 is like an elephant with wings -the apotheosis of maneuverability.

Now, the pilot was now less than two miles from his target. The screaming noise of the engines on high power were already causing heads to turn among the early morning crowds below. But they didn't really understand what was happening. One eyewitness would later recount that the first plane had tried to to veer off the tower, but hit it nevertheless. That witness had mistaken the intent of the final course correction.

For no matter how well executed the approach, it would be necessary to make one last seconds adjustment to get right on target. In the final five seconds, the tower would still be half a mile away. That's when the collective million hours of preparation would telescope into seconds and determine the success or failure of the mission.

Photo 3 Photo 4 Photo 5 Photo 6

And it wasn't going well. As the tower rushed to fill the view in the cockpit window (3), the pilot realized that he was going too fast and wide of the target to boot. He would miss to the right. Instead of a minor tilt of the controls, he would have to lean the aircraft hard left -NOW! (4)

As the airliner tilted acutely to the left (5), the air under the wings began to leak away -depriving the craft of vital lift, even as the extra centrifugal force generated by the turn meant that he needed more lift -not less. The maneuver was only partly successful. Despite the course correction, the plane still drifted to the right.

In that last instant (6), he never really had time to consider his own death. The training and his death-moment concentration focussed him so intently on the task. With a grinding crash the side of the building gave way, as Flight 175 struck near the corner of the tower -too far to the right (7).

The howl of metal and concrete impacting each other was overlaid with the crack of plate glass shattering. The concrete floors of the building cut through the plane like a egg passed through an egg slicer. The metal in its wings offered little resistance. In an instant, the plane had disappeared into the tower like a bird returning to its nest.

But it was no longer an aircraft. It's separated parts careered across the floors of the South Tower. It was no longer obeying the laws of aerodynamics. It was subject to the dictates of the angular momentum caused by the banked approach -and that last moment course correction.

That's when things began to go even more wrong for the cynical perpetrators of the mass death that was now being inflicted on those in the shattered airliner's path.

Photo 8 Photo 9

THE ARC OF FAILURE

Earlier, the North Tower impact site had been right in the center of the tower (2). The entire fuel load and flotsam was dumped deep inside and remained in the building -where it exploded (8)(fig 1 below).

But now as Flight 175 disappeared inside the South Tower, it burst like a paper bag full of water. The thousands of pounds of jet fuel were liberated to follow a path dictated by the momentum of what had once been an aircraft.

A wash of jet fuel and airplane parts tore through the interior of the building at hundreds of miles an hour; sweeping everything before it and just starting to ignite as it rushed along. But it didn't take the same course as had aircraft debris inside the North Tower, eighteen minutes before. By contrast, the majority of the fuel and debris from the second plane smashed out of the building and exploded OUTSIDE in the open air over the street (9)(fig 2 below).

The plane's approach was an arc of a great circle -one that had tightened even further with that final twitch on the controls. Imagine again a paper bag of water spun on the end of a string. If the paper bag bursts, the water inside will head off at a tangent to the original arc.

FIGURE 1 FIGURE 2

In the same fashion, the fuel now tried to take a course to the right of the original flight path. The aircraft had impacted near the corner of the building. Within fractions of a second the already igniting fuel had raced diagonally across the corner to burst out into the open air again, on the adjacent side of the Second Tower. Photos even show a smoking engine which shot out as it had not even been slowed by the building interior (10).

This air explosion provided a stunning pyrotechnic spectacle witnessed by countless millions, but it was an operational disaster. For it left the thorny question of explaining how the South Tower -which took less than half the fuel load of its North Tower twin -was the first of the two to collapse.(See Fig 1&2)

THE WRONG TOWER
FELL FIRST

Even before the second plane hit the South Tower, its northern counterpart was already burning strongly, with a great plume of dense black toxic fumes drifting over a stunned Manhattan. Flight 11 had rocketed deep inside the building before the fuel ignited. On some floors the fire burned across the entire width of the building. By 9:45 a.m. the North Tower was ablaze not just on the floors that took the impact, but all the way to the top of the building (10).

The towers sprinkler fire extinguisher system were bolstered by automatic hermetrically sealing doors on every floor to prevent the spread of fire. But office workers still found themselves stumbling down sometimes darkened and smoke-filled fire escape stairs.

The giant steel beams used to build the towers had been cast in Japan -no American steel milll could roll out the massive 'I' beams. The explanation accepted by the mainstream media pundits for the collapse of both towers is that these beams softened like warm toffee in the intensity of the fires.

If that were the case, then the North Tower was the obvious candidate to be the first to collapse. Not only did it have almost a twenty minute head start on the South Tower conflagration, but the fire extended to the whole area of many floors. The South Tower fire was smaller and more confined, so that by 10:30 a.m. there was an obvious difference visible to those in the streets below and the hypnotized TV cameras now trained on the incredible sight.

But can the collapse in any event be really blamed on the fires within? The great explosions on impact had consumed all the jet fuel in seconds. Now it was plastic fixtures, cabling and internal partitioning that were burning. Or smoldering, to be more precise. Only near the great gaping holes -where there was access to an air supply- did the fire burn with anything like the intensity required to melt great beams of steel.

Neither had the impacts significantly weakened the structural integrity of the buildings. Even under normal circumstances these flexible buildings swayed so much in high winds that seasickness was a noticeable problem among workers on upper floors. Even on floors near the impact sites, many had felt only a mild shudder as the aircraft struck.

For the fire to be the cause of the collapse, most of the array of steel beams that spanned each floor would have to be engulfed in continuous extremely high temperature fire. This did not happen, nor was it essential to the plan. If the real intent had been to collapse the towers by means of fire then the planes would have struck the corners of the towers nearest to each other. That would have increased the chances of one tower collapsing into the other.

What actually happened next -before either tower collapsed, was one or more massive explosions in the other buildings around the towers. Explosions that sent clouds of masonry dust into the air. The first of many blasts that would rock the World Trade Center complex.

The explosions marked the final phase.
The curtain was coming down on the performance.

And the towers themselves would be next to fall.....

PART II
THE BLOCKBUSTER

Copyright reserved 2001 www.psyopnews.com by
Fintan Dunne, Kathy McMahon and PsyOpNews.com
Reproduce freely on noncommercial / alternative media.
 

>

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-20   14:11:13 ET  (17 images) [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Where is the raw data to support the demolitions for the WTC? Refute the main article instead of dancing around the subject.

25 Rules of Disinformation: How to Fight Back Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation

19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.

9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

16. Vanish evidence and witnesses. If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won't have to address the issue.

Proper response: There is no suitable response to actual vanished materials or persons, unless you can shed light on the matter, particularly if you can tie the event to a cover up other criminality. However, with respect to dialog where it is used against the discussion, you can respond... 'You are avoiding the issue with disinformation tactics. The best you can say is that the matter is in contention ONLY because of highly suspicious matters such as the simultaneous and mysterious vanishing of three sets of evidence. The suspicious nature itself tends to support the primary allegation. Why do you refuse to address the remaining issues by use of such disinformation tactics (rule 16 - vanish evidence and witnesses)?'

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-20   14:17:26 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

Unfortunately, buck and aggravator ain't playin'.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-20   14:20:29 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Read the thread from top to bottom and find ANYWHERE I have attempted to throw this thread off track from the central issue concerning "demolition theory of the WTC."

You would be wise to ensure your pals read the same as just as you, you don't follow your own recommendations.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-20   14:22:14 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

he navigated the plane from Ohio without any navigational aids in terms of ground references, so we must assume he was familiar with IFR (instrument flight rules) procedures using sophisticated flight systems and instruments, where he couldn't even fly a Cessna VFR, (visual flight rules).

Here's how stupid and ignorant these Half-Truthers are regarding aircraft procedures, as in ***sophisticated flight systems and instruments.***

One of the most basic flight navigation instruments is VORTAC radio navigation with Distance Measuring Equipment, or DME.

VORTAC

VOR, short for VHF omnidirectional radio range, is a type of radio navigation system for aircraft. A VOR ground station broadcasts a VHF radio composite signal including the station's identifier, voice (if equipped), and navigation signal. The identifier is morse code.

You know what you have to do to navigate by VORTAC/DME?

Punch in the radio frequency of the VORTAC station you want to navigate to. For example, to Woodside VORTAC, 16 nm south of San Francisco International, 113.90.

That's it.

You can get a vector and distance to station, even if the station is hundreds of miles away, in all of 5 seconds.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-20   14:23:03 ET  (1 image) [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Your links don't work, Obie-wan-Kanobie.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-20   14:24:33 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Are you aware of the fact it's practically IMPOSSIBLE to land a 757 at 530 mph, yet this "pilot" who couldn't fly AT ALL according to his instructors was able to pull it off ON THE PENTAGON LAWN

Hey Half Truther circlejerk.

Hanjour got a commercial pilot certificate in 1999.

He didn't follow up on it because he didn't care. Not because he was incapable.

He spent all his time just prior to 911 with the simulator. That's because that was all he cared about, because he damn well knew his mission would not involve takeoffs and landings.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-20   14:27:57 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Yet these Half-Truthers think it's a big deal.

Come to think of it, maybe for them it is.

Thanks, AG ... with some luck the TWOOFERS will read your post. Alas! They would will probably intend to destroy the thread ... as they can't find any raw, hard and factual data to support the speculative idea that demolitions were intentionally planted by ANYONE!

Maybe it was the TWOOFER_FAERIE™!

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-20   14:36:10 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

LOL!

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-20   14:39:51 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

Unfortunately, buck and aggravator ain't playin'.

LOL

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-20   14:44:27 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

I couldn't get it to post the pictures either.

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-20   14:45:55 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Hey Half Truther circlejerk.

No, thanks for the invite, but you and buck will have to ask somebody else to join your club, I'm not interested.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-20   14:48:25 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Unfortunately, buck and aggravator ain't playin'.

Perhaps the most amusing thing is that they keep trying to assert the world is square while ridiculing anyone who disagrees with their delusions.

Notice that their main game is try to ridicule and disparage ANY data that is in disagreement with the Official Conspiracy Theory™ while asserting:

That they were fanatical Muslim suiciders who drank, prohibited in Islam, and whored, also prohibited in Islam, left a Koran in a Strip Bar, and yet were so fanatically devout they were willing to commit suicide in planes they had never flown and were incompetent to fly.

Pushed the Pentagon plane to, if not beyond, the theoretical limits of the airframe.

And then Osama Ben Forgotten was able to wave his magic cellphone in the air and make three steel framed structures, struck by two airplanes collapse at near freefall speeds into their own footprint.

I bet they also think "Alice in Wonderland" is non-fiction.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-20   14:49:00 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

FIVE HUUUNNNNNNNEEEEERRRRRTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-20   14:50:12 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

I've presented facts that support what I claim, and have already listed them here on this thread.

But your idea of a "fact" is different than mine. Here is my idea of a fact:

fact

/fækt/[fakt]

–noun

1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5. Law . Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Compare question of fact, question of law.

—Idioms

6. after the fact, Law . after the commission of a crime: an accessory after the fact.
7. before the fact, Law . prior to the commission of a crime: an accessory before the fact.
8. in fact, actually; really; indeed: In fact, it was a wonder that anyone survived.

When you use the term "fact" it is because you ran across some BS on the Internet and smeared it all over yourself; fabricated by anyone without expertise demonstrating pseudo-science and associated technical areas ... now, that is a "fact."

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-20   15:01:36 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

I bet they also think "Alice in Wonderland" is non-fiction.

I wonder which one plays the White Queen?

`When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes the shawl again!' (said the White Queen to Alice)

Through the Looking Glass, chapter 5

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-20   15:02:47 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

I couldn't get it to post the pictures either.

It looked different in preview than it did when I posted it but I don't remember seeing any pictures.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-20   15:03:55 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

I couldn't see any pictures either........I thought it was just me, but I feel better knowing I have some company while imagining the pictures. : )

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-20   15:07:18 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Interesting article anyway. Even without pictures.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-20   15:08:43 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

The pictures were on the original link OI provided.

www.serendipity.li/wot/psyopnews1.htm

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-20   15:11:00 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

I don't understand why you can't get it all with view page source. That usually works.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-20   15:31:48 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

you ran across some BS on the Internet and smeared it all over yourself; fabricated by anyone without expertise demonstrating pseudo-science and associated technical areas ... now, that is a "fact."

Ta-ha!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-20   15:39:27 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

you ran across some BS on the Internet and smeared it all over yourself

You two really should keep that stuff in PM, that and/or get yourself a room.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-20   16:16:54 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Hanjour got a commercial pilot certificate in 1999.

What part of "HE COULDN'T FLY AT ALL" don't you understand?

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-20   16:18:49 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Well at least the text is there for the shills to avoid. ;-)

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-20   16:22:38 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Interesting article anyway. Even without pictures.

It helps puts things in perspective by providing a framework in which it makes psychopathic sense. Of course our beloved shills worship psychopaths. It's just so cool to murder millions of people.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-20   16:25:53 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

What part of "HE COULDN'T FLY AT ALL" don't you understand?

It must be the word "couldn't" that is tripping him up. Look at all those letters, such a big word!

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-20   16:26:00 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

I too found the article very interesting.......

I went over it again at the link with the pictures.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-20   16:29:02 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

When you use the term "fact" it is because you ran across some BS on the Internet

Name me one thing that I posted which is untrue. You posted that Flight 77 did not fly over Ohio. That was a lie.

In fact, just about EVERYTHING you post is a lie buck.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-20   16:34:49 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Hanjour got a commercial pilot certificate in 1999.

Provide the following information;

1. Where did he obtain this license?
2. What was the name of his instructor, and the name of the flight school?
3. Where and when did he get his private license?
4. What was the name of that instructor, and that flight school?

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-20   16:35:46 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

It must be the word "couldn't" that is tripping him up. Look at all those letters, such a big word!

Maybe it's that funny " ' " character that's throwing him off...

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-20   16:36:56 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

You know, ol' Badeye had a problem with those too. Think he and the blind one might be related?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-20   16:41:02 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

You know, ol' Badeye had a problem with those too. Think he and the blind one might be related?

Probably both inbred from the same lineage...

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-20   16:42:07 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

(1) He hit the wall at an oblique angle which caused the aircraft to not achieve the maximum penatation of a 90 degree impact.

The aircraft flew level, the wings were not banking, and the nose was not up or down. The ANGLE which the aircraft impacted the wall actually caused MORE damage than if it had hit at a 90 degree angle.

(2) He didn't land on the lawn. As I've repeatedly said ground effect makes an air cushion supporting nap of the earth lift the closer the fuselage and wings get to the ground.

Can you repeat that in English? The aircraft didn't PHYSICALLY TOUCH down on the lawn, his wheels weren't down, but IF the wheels were down the aircraft would have landed.

As far as ground effect, it's physically impossible for a large heavy aircraft with relatively low wing-loading, such as a 757, to fly lower than 60 feet off the ground at speeds of 400+ mph. The alleged hijacker whose instuctors said "could not fly at all", allegedly flew the aircraft down to 20 FEET off the Pentagon lawn at a speed of 530 MPH.

The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training

(3) The wings were oscillating right up to final impact, clipping poles and brushing aside construction equipment, and ingesting a part of a luminary into the engine. This is not an under control approach or crash.

Post your source. For the aircraft to have impacted as it did, it had to fly with its wings straight and its nose level, especially being there was no damage to the Pentagon lawn. If it had touched the ground with its wings, not only would the wing have broken off and exploded, it would have left obvious skid marks. There were none, and the wing didn't blow up on the lawn.

As far as the lightposts, the officers who first responded to the scene report those lightposts were still standing when they got there, but OTHER light poles were knocked down from the aircraft THEY saw hit the Pentagon, which flew north of the ALLEGED flight path taken according to the official story, which placed it over the poles YOU claim were knocked down.

(4) The entire secion hit did minimum damage to American interests. The hit was not in a place doing any substantial damage to the US. This is because he was trying to salvage a hit on the building at all instead of hitting a high value section.

The aircraft went OUT OF ITS WAY to avoid the high value section of the Pentagon, performing a precision manuever to direct it to the side it actually hit. Pretty thoughtful of that terrorist, wasn't it...

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-20   20:14:25 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Provide the following information;

1.Where did he obtain this license? 2.What was the name of his instructor, and the name of the flight school? 3.Where and when did he get his private license? 4.What was the name of that instructor, and that flight school?

Go to hell and do your own research, Half Truther. Try to prove I'm lying and once again you'll get clouted.

All this documentation is freely available online. I already posted links where you could have followed through and found everything out yourself.

But no, you'd much prefer exchanging circlejerk gaybanter with your fellow cultists, than finding out anything real. So you've been putting your priorities where you think they belong- Circlejerk Fairyland instead of the evidence probviding subject matter for this this thred.

Not only did Hanjour get a commercial certificate in 1999, he was the longest hijacker in the US, dating back to 1990. So your "fairie" tale of an ignorant half baked rube once again fails the reality test.

Hanjour got a commercial pilot certificate in 1999.

What part of "HE COULDN'T FLY AT ALL" don't you understand?

The part where you swallow hook, line and sinker a clearly hyperbole statement.

What exactly does "couldn't fly at all" mean, Half Truther?

He couldn't flap his arms and become airborne?

Since Hanjour already passed all FAA exams in 1999 needed to get his commercial license, the "at all" is clearly false.

A more accurate statement is that in 2001, Hanjour didn't care about demonstrating the required skills needed to keep his 1999 commercial pilot license, because that wasn't what he saw his suicide mission needing. And his instructors noted at the time he was not material to demonstrate valid acceptable commercial pilot skills, because he did not care.

Finally, as long as you're getting another boxing around your ears, tell me what's so difficult about navigating by punching 4 digits for a suitable VORTAC/DME station into an instrument installed prominently on the cockpit control panel.

Are you and your fellow cultists claiming that's too difficult to do any navigation by... For whom, other than yourselves...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-20   22:31:14 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

The ANGLE which the aircraft impacted the wall actually caused MORE damage than if it had hit at a 90 degree angle.

False. The starboard wing got mostly ground against the building exterior wall because it ran approximately parallel to it, while the port wing got folded back into the fuselage because it was inserted into a tight space with little force available to push the width of that space wider.

IF the wheels were down the aircraft would have landed.

No. In landing especially ground landings the power must be cut down drastically. Had the wheels been lowered the plane would have repeatedly bounced anywhere from a few feet to over 100.

As far as ground effect, it's physically impossible for a large heavy aircraft with relatively low wing-loading, such as a 757, to fly lower than 60 feet off the ground at speeds of 400+ mph. The alleged hijacker whose instuctors said "could not fly at all", allegedly flew the aircraft down to 20 FEET off the Pentagon lawn at a speed of 530 MPH.

Since Hanjour had aleady obtained a commercial pilot certificate two years earlier, the statement he could not fly at all is an exaggeration glommed onto by the Half Truther usual suspects, who can't be bothered to research facts, because that will take time away from their circlejerk gaybanter with each other.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-20   23:03:27 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Since Hanjour had aleady obtained a commercial pilot certificate two years earlier, the statement he could not fly at all is an exaggeration glommed onto by the Half Truther usual suspects, who can't be bothered to research facts, because that will take time away from their circlejerk gaybanter with each other.

Of course the comments of his flight instructor that he couldn't fly is of course an insignificant datum.

Keep those fingernails dug in that Official Fairy Tale about the magic Arabs, magick Jet fuel, and buildings that miraculously fall into their own footprint 3 at time is tough sell since there are so many things about it that are hilarious.

Wanna buy a bridge kid?

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-20   23:13:56 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

Of course the comments of his flight instructor that he couldn't fly is of course an insignificant datum.

Hanjour's 1999 FAA commercial pilot certificate trumps the comments of his flight instructor.

None of you Half Truthers bothered to find out about that because all you are capable of is parroting whatever k00ksites put out.

Clearly Hanjour didn't GAS about the things his flight instructor thought were important. That does not translate into him being unable to do them, just that he couldn't be bothered to do them.

Keep those fingernails dug in that Official Fairy Tale

Here is a partial list, which will get bigger and bigger as I review my postings, of the issues you've been clouted on in this forum.

(1) Two aircraft crashes released gigajoules of kinetic energy into the Twin Tower structures, and within 2 hours both structures collapsed from structural damage,
(2) A fireman is recorded on video saying a third WTC Building, WTC7, will be going down because the building is losing its structural stability from crash damage and uncontrolled fires,
(3) Over 30 calls from hijacked aircraft were logged including several by flight attendants giving seat numbers and descriptions of hijackers,
(4) The false statement that Flight 77's cabin door was not opened has been demonstrated to be a lie, as there is no evidence about any cabin door operation of that aircraft either during or before the September 11 flight,
(5) The lauded "peer review publication" of Tw00ferk00ks Steven Jones and Niels Harrit have been shown to be pay-to- publish articles for which $800 was given to a Dhubai publishing mill, with zero other peer reviewed articles
(6) The phrase "pull" as used by the demolition industry means "pull down with cables," and as used by firefighters means "pull back from site,"
(7) Flight 77 impacted a recently-renovated portion of the Pentagon which was not fully occupied and still had construction equipment in place, and
(8) It's a physical impossibility for a structure to both be flexible enough to absorb gigajoules of energy, move away from vertical centerline, return to vertical centerline on its own, then be rigid enough to provide a fixed platform for a rotating and falling top section to collapse outside the building footprint
(9) The actual free fall times of the WTC towers have been conclusively shown as 15+ seconds for 1 tower and 22+ seconds for the other, an order of magnitude above the claimed "free fall time" of 9.22 seconds which is supposed to be evidence of a controlled demolition
(10) Claimed molten steel evidence of thermite flowing from 80th floors is actually aluminum and trash cooling on way down and not hot enough to remain melted as it falls a few hundred feet

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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-20   23:18:54 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  

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