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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 18416
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#525. To: AGAviator (#522)
Where did he get it from? What was the name of his instructor? What was the name of the flight school?
You love to spam this 4um with the same bullshit, day in and day out, don't you...
It doesn't exist, bullshit artist. There IS no information on Hanjour, the "certificate" was probably entered into the computer by an "associate". There is no record of what school he took lessons from in terms of either a commericial or private pilot's license. It was fabricated apparently. His instructors at the flight simulator school said he couldn't fly at all, and that was reported by the New York Times.
Hey moron, the fuselage entered the building and penetrated HOW many rings? Screw off with your "little force available" tap dance.
The power has to be cut for the plane to descend normally, and for the nose to touch down. SOMEHOW he managed to FLY the plane at 530 mph at an altitude it would normally land at, so he DID effectively land the plane, in a manner not even professional airline pilots could hope to accomplish.
Go file your complaint with the New York Times and his flight school, they're the ones who reported it, circlegobbler.
To AGJerkoff, the New York Times is a "circle jerk conspiracy source", where him and his butt pal buck are "official experts" and more knowledgeable about all this than any scientist, flight instructor, pilot, or anyone else who disagrees with THEIR story.
From Newsday Magazine In the spring of 2000, Hanjour had asked to enroll in the CRM Airline Training Center in Scottsdale, Ariz., for advanced training, said the center's attorney, Gerald Chilton Jr. Hanjour had attended the school for three months in late 1996 and again in December 1997 but never finished coursework for a license to fly a single-engine aircraft, Chilton said. When Hanjour reapplied to the center last year, "We declined to provide training to him because we didn't think he was a good enough student when he was there in 1996 and 1997," Chilton said. He was so bad they didn't even want to train him.
You can't rebut any of it, Half Truther...So you go to Plan B, circlejerk gaybanter with your Twisters.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It was fabricated apparently. His instructors at the flight simulator school said he couldn't fly at all, and that was reported by the New York Times Lying as usual, fuckwit. It's all on public records referred to by links I've already provided. Pathetic loser.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It must be the word "couldn't" that is tripping him up. Look at all those letters, such a big word! Well you know how he is about BIG words.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You just finished telling me Hanjour's pilot certificate was non existent and a fake, because the NY Times said nothing about it. Now you're quoting another source that explicitly says Hanjour had a Federal pilot license, and 600 hours in his logbook Spin and twist, Chubby Checker. Spin and twist. LOLOL!!!!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What part of "1999 Federal commercial pilot license" and "600 hours in logbook" don't you understand, Half Truther? To get his 1999 commercial pilot license, Hanjour had to pass FAA tests both written and flight performance. Eat your words, loser.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Two different types of licenses, Half Truther. Once again you conflate two distinct items, into a single gloopy tarball of k00kspiracy theory. Hanjour's license and training were for a commercial pilot, which is the license you need to fly passenger carrying jets. Hanjour's single engine license private pilot is not relevant to 911 unless you want to claim Hanjour somehow needed to fly a Cessna 172 into the targets. Nearly all aircraft pilots say it's harder to fly smaller aircraft than larger ones. The smaller craft are more susceptible to wind and weather changes, don't have backup safety systems, and require constant attention. Even experienced ATP pilots are often asked to take additional training if they have not piloted smaller craft recently. As I have already said, the hardest parts of piloting are takeoffs and landings. So what does your source say? However Hanjour knew just enough about both large and small planes to be dangerous. And he didn't need anyone's permission to hijack an airplane and fly it into a building, however clumsily.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And if all that isn't enough they even know more than all the eyewitnesses who were there on scene and heard bombs. You know, the firefighters and folks like that. People who probably don't get rattled too easily.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. It was fabricated apparently. Like Obama's birth certificate. See how much that sumbitch has in common with terrorists?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Indeed. Before I put his ignunt ass on my clown filter I had noticed that. Now I never see his delusions unless someone posts to him and copies and pastes what he is rambling about into their reply.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Which apparently is fake, as there's no record of him ever taking lessons for that. Besides, are you trying to say you don't need to know how to take-off, land, or fly a plane in order to obtain a commericial license? Are you saying that you don't need to know how to fly a single engine plane before progressing to multi-engine?
A logbook and license that had no basis in reality. Again, find his records indicating he ever took lessons and ever held a private license. Find the names of his prior flight schools.
What was the name of his commercial flight school? What was the name of his instructor? What was the name of his private license flight school? Where's his multi-engine certificate?
In the spring of 2000, Hanjour had asked to enroll in the CRM Airline Training Center in Scottsdale, Ariz., for advanced training, said the center's attorney, Gerald Chilton Jr. Hanjour had attended the school for three months in late 1996 and again in December 1997 but never finished coursework for a license to fly a single-engine aircraft, Chilton said. When Hanjour reapplied to the center last year, "We declined to provide training to him because we didn't think he was a good enough student when he was there in 1996 and 1997," Chilton said.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Find me ONE legitimate pilot who EVER said it's easier to fly an airliner than it is to fly a Cessna 172. Post it here, or admit that you are a LIAR EXTRAORDINAIRE.
Wrong pilot license, wrong aircraft, wrong school, wrong dates. Hanjour got an FAA commercial pilot license, not private pilot license, the license was from a different school than you cite, it was for a passenger aircraft and not a single engine Cessna 172, and it was during a different time period than you mention. On your attempts to introduce facts you're 0 for 4. When you claim Hanjour never got any license and someone entered phony information into a computer, 0 for 5. Anything else you want to fuck up, Half Truther, before I clout you on yet another misrepresented narrative?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey you lying POS, when are you going to put your tail between you legs and scampper off to whatever hole you crawled out of?
Why do you give FormerLurker so much credit? He is not even close, based upon his "cabin door theories" "FLT77 from Ohio theories" "government complicit demolition theories" ... the list goes on and on and on..... He has successfully sidetracked this thread ( as always ) .... now, we are talking about Hanjour's background .... like that little terrorist is so remarkable.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Oh Lawd have mercy, my freakin' sides!!! I guess the next thing will be that all professional truck drivers will tell us that it is far easier to drive a fully loaded tractor trailer over an ice road in Alaska than a Volkswagon on a good road in clear weather. ahaha. I will probably chuckle over that one off and on the rest of the day. Thanks. I wouldn't have seen that insanity if you hadn't copied it in your reply.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. So I'm supposed to believe YOU, the forum liar, rather than the news reports that reported the facts concerning Hanjour's background, eh? Post the following information concerning Hanjour's commercial license; You see genius, you can't walk into an FAA office and tell them you want a commericial license, have them say ok, here ya go. You HAVE to FIRST take lessons for a SINGLE-ENGINE PRIVATE license, solo, acquire flight hours, THEN take a test with an FAA examiner, similar to driver's road test, where every aspect of a pilot's abilities are scrutinized, THEN if successful a PRIVATE SINGLE ENGINE license is issued. THEN, in order to fly MULTI-ENGINE planes, you need to take lessons for that and go through a similar process. THEN, a pilot would need to fly a simulator and take lessons for IFR flight, ie. flying with instruments only, and be examined for that, and be issued a IFR certificate. THEN, a pilot would need to log many hours of time IFR, and take lessons for a COMMERCIAL license, THEN be examined by the FAA for that. So go ahead and provide that information concerning his flight training and FAA certifications.
Yep, I'm sure B-52 pilots find it easier to fly those big suckers than a Cessna or Piper single engine. Just like it's much easier to pilot an oil tanker or aircraft carrier than it is operate a rowboat or a speed boat.
Hey numbnuts, are you STILL trying to say that FLT77 didn't fly over Ohio?
Find me ONE legitimate pilot who EVER said it's easier to fly an airliner than it is to fly a Cessna 172. Gawd, swatting you is about as much work as smacking an insect. What's best? The one that is the most difficult to fly! Well, within reason of course. A Cessna 152, for example, is more sensitive on the controls than it's larger brother, the 172. If you learn to fly in a 152, and then step-up to a 172 it will be a piece of cake to handle. It's more difficult the other way around. Generally speaking, the larger the aircraft the easier it is to fly. And, the guy that learns in a tail-dragger has a much easier time of transistioning to a tricycle gear than the tricycle driver does going the other direction. So, in my opinion, opt for the small trainer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, those rowboats are some hard work. I think I will apply for a job as captain of one of those oil tankers and have it made. Easy duty, no heavy lifting and simple work I guess. What could be better? Or maybe I will just decide that I want to be a pilot and fly for Delta or somebody since that is so simple. I wish I had known all this at a younger age.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Swatting you is as easy as smacking an insect. 0:35 "See, he was already certified. He didn't come to us for flight training" 0:40 "He already earned his private instrument commercial at a school in Arizona. I don't remember the name of the school, but he already had certificates in hand" 1:50 "Hanjour paid $400 cash and provided a valid pilot's license from Arizona, Bernard said."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- that is all the members of the liar movement have, take away the bull and all that is left is their dung.
Yes, and they are BOTH SINGLE-ENGINE PRIVATE AIRCRAFT you bloviating idiot. He wasn't talking about airliners being easier to fly than a SINGLE ENGINE plane you retard. So go ahead and find the information genius. Find the name of that commericial flight school that he obtained his license from. Besides, who's to say that character on YouTube isn't a contract pilot for some alphabet soup agency. Don't tell there aren't any, as we ALL know better than that.
Airline pilots used to flying planes on autopilot with co crew members helping out, generally have more difficult times being single pilot in command on smaller private planes, with no backup, no flight computers, and no push button controls to do the work. If you knew jack$hit about aviation you would know that already.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yet, he couldn't even fly a 172... HAHAHAHA!!!! This from The Prince George's Journal (Maryland), September 18, 2001: According to published reports, law enforcement sources say Hanjour, in his mid- twenties, is suspected of crashing the American Airlines Flight 77 into the Pentagon. . . . Hanjour had his pilot's license, said Bernard, but needed what is called a 'check-out' done by the airport to gauge a pilot's skills before he or she is able to rent a plane at Freeway Airport which runs parallel to Route 50. Instructors at the school told Bernard that after three times in the air, they still felt he was unable to fly solo and that Hanjour seemed disappointed ... ... Published reports said Hanjour obtained his pilot's license in April of 1999, but it expired six months later because he did not complete a required medical exam. He also was trained for a few months at a private school in Scottsdale, Ariz., in 1996, but did not finish the course because instructors felt he was not capable. Hanjour had 600 hours listed in his log book, Bernard said, and instructors were surprised he was not able to fly better with the amount of experience. Pete Goulatta, a special agent and spokesman for the FBI, said it is an on- going criminal investigation and he could not comment. (pg. 1.) THEN, in order to fly MULTI-ENGINE planes, you need to take lessons for that and go through a similar process. THEN, a pilot would need to fly a simulator and take lessons for IFR flight, ie. flying with instruments only, and be examined for that, and be issued a IFR certificate. THEN, a pilot would need to log many hours of time IFR, and take lessons for a COMMERCIAL license, THEN be examined by the FAA for that. Bull$hit. You can if you wish go directly into commercial aircraft training school. There is no mandatory connection between private single engine and commercial ATP licensing. That is exactly what Hanjour did.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You don't know ANYTHING concerning aviation you lying POS. EVERYBODY who knows ANYTHING about aircraft is LAUGHING at you.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestSince Hanjour had aleady obtained a commercial pilot certificate two years earlier
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#526. To: AGAviator (#524)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#527. To: AGAviator (#521)
Go to hell and do your own research, Half Truther.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#528. To: AGAviator (#522)
False. The starboard wing got mostly ground against the building exterior wall because it ran approximately parallel to it, while the port wing got folded back into the fuselage because it was inserted into a tight space with little force available to push the width of that space wider.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#529. To: AGAviator (#522)
No. In landing especially ground landings the power must be cut down drastically. Had the wheels been lowered the plane would have repeatedly bounced anywhere from a few feet to over 100.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#530. To: AGAviator (#522)
Since Hanjour had aleady obtained a commercial pilot certificate two years earlier, the statement he could not fly at all is an exaggeration glommed onto by the Half Truther usual suspects, who can't be bothered to research facts, because that will take time away from their circlejerk gaybanter with each other.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#531. To: Original_Intent (#523)
Of course the comments of his flight instructor that he couldn't fly is of course an insignificant datum.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#532. To: AGAviator (#522)
Since Hanjour had aleady obtained a commercial pilot certificate two years earlier, the statement he could not fly at all is an exaggeration glommed onto by the Half Truther usual suspects, who can't be bothered to research facts, because that will take time away from their circlejerk gaybanter with each other
However, when Baxter and fellow instructor Ben Conner took the slender, soft- spoken Hanjour on three test runs during the second week of August, they found he had trouble controlling and landing the single-engine Cessna 172. Even though Hanjour showed a federal pilot's license and a log book cataloging 600 hours of flying experience, chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard declined to rent him a plane without more lessons.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#533. To: FormerLurker (#532)
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#534. To: FormerLurker (#526)
You love to spam this 4um with the same bullshit
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#535. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#527)
There IS no information on Hanjour, the "certificate" was probably entered into the computer by an "associate". There is no record of what school he took lessons from in terms of either a commericial or private pilot's license.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#536. To: James Deffenbach, FormerLurker (#513)
What part of "HE COULDN'T FLY AT ALL" don't you understand?
#537. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#532)
(Edited)
Even though Hanjour showed a federal pilot's license and a log book cataloging 600 hours of flying experience, chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard declined to rent him a plane without more lessons.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#538. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo (#536)
(Edited)
What part of "HE COULDN'T FLY AT ALL" don't you understand?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#539. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#532)
(Edited)
Never finished coursework for a license to fly a single-engine aircraft, Chilton said.
when Baxter and fellow instructor Ben Conner took the slender, soft- spoken Hanjour on three test runs...they found he had trouble controlling and landing the single- engine Cessna 172
You know what? The Cessna people made the right decision. They owned an airplane with millions of dollars of liability insurance on it. They didn't feel like renting to anyone who could not completely control the aircraft under all circumstances. That was the smart thing to do.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#540. To: FormerLurker (#531)
To AGJerkoff, the New York Times is a "circle jerk conspiracy source", where him and his butt pal buck are "official experts" and more knowledgeable about all this than any scientist, flight instructor, pilot, or anyone else who disagrees with THEIR story.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#541. To: FormerLurker (#527)
There IS no information on Hanjour, the "certificate" was probably entered into the computer by an "associate". There is no record of what school he took lessons from in terms of either a commericial or private pilot's license.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#542. To: Original_Intent (#536)
Well you know how he is about BIG words.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#543. To: AGAviator (#539)
Hanjour's license and training were for a commercial pilot, which is the license you need to fly passenger carrying jets.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#544. To: AGAviator (#537)
Now you're quoting another source that explicitly says Hanjour had a Federal pilot license, and 600 hours in his logbook
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#545. To: AGAviator (#535)
It's all on public records referred to by links I've already provided.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#546. To: AGAviator (#534)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#547. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, James Deffenbach, *9-11* (#539)
Nearly all aircraft pilots say it's harder to fly smaller aircraft than larger ones.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#548. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#546)
In the spring of 2000, Hanjour had asked to enroll in the CRM Airline Training Center in Scottsdale , Ariz., for advanced training, said the center's attorney, Gerald Chilton Jr. Hanjour had attended the school for three months in late 1996 and again in December 1997 but never finished coursework for a license to fly a single-engine aircraft, Chilton said.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#549. To: AGAviator, *9-11* (#539)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#550. To: AGAviator (#548)
Anything else you want to fuck up, Half Truther, before I clout you on yet another misrepresented narrative?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#551. To: AGAviator (#534)
You can't rebut any of it, Half Truther [FormerLurker]...So you go to Plan B, circlejerk gaybanter with your Twisters.
#552. To: FormerLurker (#547)
aggravator: Nearly all aircraft pilots say it's harder to fly smaller aircraft than larger ones.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#553. To: AGAviator (#548)
(Edited)
Hanjour got an FAA commercial pilot license, not private pilot license, the license was from a different school than you cite, it was for a passenger aircraft and not a single engine Cessna 172, and it was during a different time period than you mention.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#554. To: James Deffenbach (#552)
Oh Lawd have mercy, my freakin' sides!!! I guess the next thing will be that all professional truck drivers will tell us that it is far easier to drive a fully loaded tractor trailer over an ice road in Alaska than a Volkswagon on a good road in clear weather. ahaha. I will probably chuckle over that one off and on the rest of the day. Thanks. I wouldn't have seen that insanity if you hadn't copied it in your reply.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#555. To: buckeroo (#551)
"FLT77 from Ohio theories"
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#556. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#547)
Nearly all aircraft pilots say it's harder to fly smaller aircraft than larger ones.
They come in all shapes and sizes. High wing, low wing, I've even known people that started- and completed- their training in a twin.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#557. To: FormerLurker (#554)
Just like it's much easier to pilot an oil tanker or aircraft carrier than it is operate a rowboat or a speed boat.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#558. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#549)
(Edited)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#559. To: FormerLurker (#526)
You love to spam this 4um with the same bullshit, day in and day out, don't you...
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#560. To: AGAviator (#556)
A Cessna 152, for example, is more sensitive on the controls than it's larger brother, the 172. If you learn to fly in a 152, and then step-up to a 172 it will be a piece of cake to handle. It's more difficult the other way around. Generally speaking, the larger the aircraft the easier it is to fly. And, the guy that learns in a tail-dragger has a much easier time of transistioning to a tricycle gear than the tricycle driver does going the other direction. So, in my opinion, opt for the small trainer. High wing or low wing? I'm partial to the high wing for the reasons stated above, but it's really a matter of what the flight school that you pick uses.
Cessna 152
Cessna 172
Boeing 757
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#561. To: AGAviator (#558)
"He already earned his private instrument commercial at a school in Arizona. I don't remember the name of the school, but he already had certificates in hand"
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#562. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#560)
"Generally speaking, the larger the aircraft the easier it is to fly."
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#563. To: AGAviator (#556)
A Cessna 152, for example, is more sensitive on the controls than it's larger brother, the 172. If you learn to fly in a 152, and then step-up to a 172 it will be a piece of cake to handle. It's more difficult the other way around.
Marcel Bernard, the chief flight instructor at the airport, said the man named Hani Hanjour went into the air in a Cessna 172 with instructors from the airport three times beginning the second week of August and had hoped to rent a plane from the airport.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#564. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#553)
You HAVE to FIRST take lessons for a SINGLE-ENGINE PRIVATE license, solo, acquire flight hours, THEN take a test with an FAA examiner, similar to driver's road test, where every aspect of a pilot's abilities are scrutinized, THEN if successful a PRIVATE SINGLE ENGINE license is issued.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#565. To: AGAviator (#562)
Airline pilots used to flying planes on autopilot with co crew members helping out, generally have more difficult times being single pilot in command on smaller private planes, with no backup, no flight computers, and no push button controls to do the work.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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