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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 17930
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#43. To: Original_Intent (#2)
The two towers were "hit" differently and the central core supports were damaged differently as a result. Check this out: Impact to Collapse by NOVA.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Lol.......I have a sinister plan to pay for all of that counseling. Draft a ten step plan: How to get onto Buck's Bozo Filter. Many at 4um will open their wallets happily for such a valuable, dare I say priceless, information. They will pay double if the plan applies to AGAviator.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
At least zero HERE so far... That was the one. Sigh yes no one ever brings him up. New Information on the Death of 911 Eyewitness Barry Jennings By Jack Blood www.wFUradio.com www.deadlinelive.info Barry Jennings, a key 9/11 eyewitness who was an emergency coordinator for the New York Housing Authority, passed away last August 2008 at age 53 from undisclosed circumstances. Mr. Jennings was an eyewitness to the devastation of the World Trade center towers on September 11th 2001. On the morning of 911 Barry Jennings with Michael Hess, (one of Rudy Giuliani’s highest ranking appointed officials, New York city’s corporation counsel), entered the famed Building 7. It was just after the first attack on the North tower, but before the second plane hit the South Tower, when Barry Jennings escorted Michael Hess to the World Trade Center Tower 7. Mr. Jennings recalls a large number of police officers in the lobby of WTC 7 when they arrived. The two men went up to the 23rd floor, but could not get in, so they went back to the lobby and the police took them up in the freight elevator for a second try. When they arrived on level 23, at the Office of Emergency Management (FEMA),) they found it had been recently deserted, “coffee that was on the desk, smoke was still coming off the coffee, I saw half eaten sandwiches”. At that point he made some phone calls, and an un-named individual told them to “leave, and leave right away”. Jennings and Hess then proceeded to the stairs, and made it to level 6, when there was an explosion, and the stairwell collapsed from under their feet, Mr. Jennings was actually hanging, and had to climb back up. They made it back up to level 8, where Barry Jennings had a view of the twin towers, both buildings were still standing. This is an important detail, as many debunkers have used Mr. Jennings statements out of context to claim the damage came to WTC 7 from the towers collapsing, not the case according, to Mr. Jennings. When they made it to the lobby, Mr. Jennings found it destroyed and littered with dead bodies. He said it looked like, “King Kong had came through it and stepped on it, (it was) so destroyed, I didn’t know where I was. So destroyed that they had to take me out through a hole in the wall, that I believe the fire department made to get me out.” Shortly after he made it out, he was seen on several news channels telling his story. Mr. Jennings was admittedly confused as to why Building 7 had to come down at all, and does not accept the official reason that the noises he heard were from a fuel oil tank, “I know what I heard, I heard explosions”. Jennings testimony was recorded by Loose Change for the Final Cut version of the extremely popular documentary, but was edited out at the final stage due to Jennings misgivings about losing his job, and endangering his family. The BBC later interviewed Jennings for a “911 debunking special” and Jennings seemed to retract the testimony given to Loose Change. Subsequently the creators of the film released the original interview to protect their own credibility. Barry Jennings passed away shortly thereafter and coincidentally just a few days before the long awaited NIST report on Building 7 was released to the public. It is quite possible that Jennings would have exposed the cover story of NIST, and their overall excuse that the 47 story building was the first and only skyscraper felled by fire. He never got that chance. New Information Yesterday, April 15th 2009 I was contacted by “Loose Change” director, and narrator Dylan Avery who said that he had recently begun investigating the death of Barry Jennings, and had found some new information relating to his death. It seems that there is a very good possibility that Jennings’ death could have been due to foul play. Though the investigations are on going, initial findings are somewhat alarming. The conclusion is still forthcoming, but I was shocked by what I heard. It seems that Dylan had hired a private investigator to look into Jennings death which remains shrouded in mystery. His motive was simply to bring some closure to the life of Barry Jennings, and in doing so to honor the memory of this brave American. The Investigator ended up referring the case to Law enforcement before refunding his pay, and told Dylan never to contact him again. Very unusual to say the least. Dylan also paid a visit to the Jennings home. He found it vacant and for sale. Personally, something is really beginning to stink here. Why would a highly paid PI refuse to continue his investigation? Why did he refer the matter to police? He is not talking. What is he afraid of. Was he warned to cease and desist? If so by whom? These are some of the new questions revolving around the Jennings case. In every major cover up from the JFK assassination to Iran Contra, we can see one common thread. The untimely death of eyewitnesses. Barry Jennings was not only an important and most credible eyewitness, but he openly refuted much of the government, and media version of events. He was a liability. Name calling is juvenile.
Barry Jennings RIP None of these neobuttlickers can hold a candle to this man's love of our practically dead nation.
I don't understand your post. If Jennings had entered WTC7 after the North tower collapsed why wouldn't there be pandemonium throughout the area, EVERYWHERE?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
What type of plane hit WTC 7 again? You know, the one that the BBC reported had collapsed 25 minutes before it did. Check this out: THE WTC WAS DESIGNED TO SURVIVE THE IMPACT OF A BOEING 767
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Oh, de humanity!! D@mn! Rotara has always been lucky!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. You will get over it in the fullness of time. It might take as long as three nanoseconds but I know that the clouds will break and the sun will shine for you again. Hang in there.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Of course no aircraft struck WTC7. But it was damaged from the collapse of the twin towers earlier in the day.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Of course no aircraft struck WTC7. But it was damaged from the collapse of the twin towers earlier in the day. How so? And don't try and dredge up the Pop Mechanics piece because it has already been proven false - they used a picture of WTC 6 which was damaged by debris, and did not fall - it was later demolished at great expense, and then reversed and falsely represented as "secret photos" of WTC 7.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Oh, de humanity!! D@mn! Rotara has always been lucky! buck never bozoed me! WTH?
Ah, but you forget. 7 was hit by something like three drops of Magickal Jet Fuel™, Santa Claus fell out of his sleigh and bounced off both 1 and 2 and ricocheted onto 7 and if all that wasn't already enough the Easter Bunny got ticked off and threw an egg at it!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. WTH? LOL!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Stop all the distractions. The fact is what happened on 9/11 could not happen unless the government was complicit. Either they were directly responsible or they facilitated the attacks by others. This is not the first time the government has been involved in this kind of crap... National Security Agency entitled Body of Secrets, author James Bamford highlights a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS. This document, titled “Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba” was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake “Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,” including “sink[ing] a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated),” faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a “Remember the Maine” incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods “may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.” www.attackonamerica.net/operationnorthwoods.htm www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf www.historycommons.org/en...p?entity=_operation_40__1 www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKcondor.htm
ROTFL How about, Final Report on WTC7 - NIST, ever read it? If so, please comment.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Cite your specific reference - not the totality of a multi-thousand page report.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I am maintaining that the plans and actual execution for the events of 9/11 went very smoothly considering that the overall devastation inflicted was more than an "eye-popper." The US government and any of its agencies or for that matter any authorized government institution(s) within the USA could not have performed that series of tragedies because 1) there are no personnel in the USA that would consider an official act of hostility or tyranny against the people and government bodies and 2) it would have been bungled and there would be later eye-witness accounts. Your list of links is fairly extensive. I will look them over later this evening.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Hold on there pardner! WHOA! Have you read that document at anytime?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Not everything that makes a noise is an ***explosion.*** "Explosions" start out by hurling objects in all directions - including upwards - at hundreds to thousands of miles per hour in a huge initial blast cloud, which gets smaller as time goes on. Events which start with clouds that get bigger, and eject items only sideways or down at less than free fall speeds, don't fall into that category.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How about the CNN footage of the planes with pods underneath firing explosives into the building before they hit. People have tried to explain them away as shadows but that is clearly not what they are.
Name calling is juvenile.
Do you mean such as blowing all the windows out on the sub floors of the WTC buildings? Like these eye witnesses report at this link: www.youtube.com/watch? v=Jcg8hMEmTVE&feature=related People thought the subway exploded. The janitor saved peoples' lives from these explosions. Are you saying you know more than all of these people who were right there and heard these explosions, saw fireballs emerging from the elevator lobby, watched glass blow out all over the place? People burned ON THE SUBFLOORS with their skin hanging off......tell them it wasn't an explosion coming from the basement.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Spend time reviewing the history of the CIA, Orlando Bosch and Posada. Surely you don't believe nobody in the US government would not consider an attack on our country for political, financial or other reasons. Also spend some time reading Moron Oliver North's diary entries at the National Security Archive - GWU. This should dispel any ideas you might have about our own government and personnel refusing to engage in these types of things. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
More bs from the liar movement. Of course you know this. Just saying the structural integrity was not there does not make it so. The structural integrity was there. Until it was blown to smithereens by explosives.
CNN like all the other major media are controlled by the govt and publish/print/show only those things approved by the government. A friend I went to college with years ago is now a VP of an MSNBC division and lives in Connecticut. I had a conversation with her a few years ago and she told me I would be surprised by restrictions put on the media by the govt. It is called disinformation.
I enjoy reading a lot of your posts and I agree with you about being skeptical and suspicious of an over-reaching government; we must be vigilant to hold-on to what little is left. But I don't believe for a second that a government entity in the USA would knowingly perpetrate an act against the people. And as I expressed, there is no evidence or witnesses of such an act occurring. So, on this thread, lets review the government's reports of what happened BEFORE dismissing it altogether and adopting other ideas. All of the pdfs are available on the NIST website.... the hotlinks that I want to encourage ..... I have posted on this thread.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
When I hear explosions I tend to think that the buildings where those explosions occured would, naturally, have a loss in structural integrity. Firefighters would be bright enough to take this logical leap as well.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Does this guy and a few of the others seem like actors? I think this video is fake.
After the collisions of the North and South towers, you are WRONG. The aircraft seriously weakened the central support system(s) while jet fuel ravaged six simultaneous floors that upon collision ignited further impairing the same support structures WHILE the active/passive fire control systems were ineffective.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
How'd you get him to bozo you?
Run a 4um search of my posts to BOHICAroo recently and you'll find the path to true liberty...
See, that little how too get on the bozo list book would be a big seller. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
It wasn't until after the towers collided that I was wrong.
As to free-fall, I mean it didn't free-fall from top to bottom. WTC7 met "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Please explain.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
see what you've done, you made bucky cry like a little school girl; again!
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
I see where you are going. And WTC7 went fast. But that doesn't mean controlled demolition (CD) was used by anyone. So explain your position that CD was used.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAs well an explosive demolition would show basically the same signature, and the theory does not explain why one tower took about 14 seconds to collapse and the other identical tower 22-23 seconds.
#44. To: Rotara (#42)
#45. To: Rotara (#38)
None of them - and I mean NONE of them - want to talk about Barry Jennings.
April 16, 2009
#46. To: farmfriend (#45)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#47. To: farmfriend (#45)
#48. To: buckeroo (#43)
The two towers were "hit" differently and the central core supports were damaged differently as a result. Check this out: Impact to Collapse by NOVA.
#49. To: abraxas, Rotara (#40)
lol.........OH NO!!! What ever shall you do? Buck has gone and put you on bozo filter.......oh, the horror of it all!
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#50. To: Rotara (#42)
yeah, well...i don't exactly know HOW MUCH counseling i'll need to maybe get through this.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#51. To: Original_Intent (#48)
What type of plane hit WTC 7 again?
#52. To: buckeroo (#51)
What type of plane hit WTC 7 again?
#53. To: James Deffenbach, abraxas, Rotara, buckeroo (#49)
lol.........OH NO!!! What ever shall you do? Buck has gone and put you on bozo filter.......oh, the horror of it all!
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#54. To: Original_Intent (#52)
How so? And don't try and dredge up the Pop Mechanics piece because it has already been proven false - they used a picture of WTC 6 which was damaged by debris, and did not fall - it was later demolished at great expense, and then reversed and falsely represented as "secret photos" of WTC 7.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#55. To: wudidiz (#53)
buck never bozoed me!
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#56. To: buckeroo (#0)
#57. To: Original_Intent (#52)
And don't try and dredge up the Pop Mechanics piece because it has already been proven false
#58. To: buckeroo (#57)
#59. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#56)
The fact is what happened on 9/11 could not happen unless the government was complicit.
#60. To: Original_Intent (#58)
Cite your specific reference - not the totality of a multi-thousand page report.
#61. To: abraxas, buckeroo, turtle (#37)
Er, are you simply going to ignore the EXPLOSIONS heard clearly in your own vids?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#62. To: AGAviator, abraxas, buckeroo, turtle (#61)
#63. To: AGAviator (#61)
#64. To: buckeroo (#59)
there are no personnel in the USA that would consider an official act of hostility or tyranny against the people
#65. To: abraxas, AGAviator (#34)
"Keep your eye on that building. It'll be coming down...The structural integrity is not there."
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#66. To: farmfriend (#62)
#67. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#64)
#68. To: wudidiz, AGAviator (#65)
#69. To: *9-11*, AGAviator, all (#34)
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"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#70. To: wudidiz (#65)
The structural integrity was there.
#71. To: Rotara (#70)
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#72. To: wudidiz (#71)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#73. To: Rotara (#72)
#74. To: Rotara (#70)
After the collisions of the North and South towers, you are WRONG.
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#75. To: Lod, Eric Stratton (#74)
(Edited)
less resistance increasing acceleration because of the accumulative mass from the upper floors on the lower floors.
#76. To: buckeroo (#75)
#77. To: Eric Stratton (#76)
#78. To: Rotara, buckeroo (#39)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#79. To: buckeroo (#75)
#80. To: buckeroo (#77)
#81. To: buckeroo (#77)
#82. To: Eric Stratton (#79)
#83. To: buckeroo (#82)
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