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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 18168
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#640. To: Original_Intent (#639)
Were you chit-chatting with someone else? Because I haven't referenced Eager at all. [hint: use your edit feature and browse "Eager" from any of my references other than yours and FL's confused mental states.]
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Along with all that, the BIGGEST fundamental error is something that a freshman in Physics would see, and that is the fact that you CAN'T make believe kinetic energy is conserved by treating the collisions between floors as elastic collisions, they were inelastic, thus his entire analysis is bogus. True, and of course Eager knows better. His analysis only works for those ignorant of building construction, the amount of fuel available, and that the towers were basically a building within a building in their structural support. Eager's hypothesis only works on the outer layer which derived the majority of its structural support from the immensely strong inner core which he almost totally ignores in his supposed explanation.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
What do you think of this picture? "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I think a picture is worth a thousand words.... is the above picture close to your explanation, too?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
And here is another picture illustrating the concept: "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Where did you get your info claiming the FDR did not show any movement for 40 hours and 11 flights prior to September 11? Wikipedia? I checked that source you posted as "proof" and it doesn't link to any quoted source which verifies the claim: the status of the cockpit door, which showed no sign of having been opened during the hijacking or previous 40 hours, including 11 flights prior to the hijacking. [1] That [1] reference is an NTSB pdf file and maybe I'm missing something but I don't see anything at all like that claim in it. Reference #1 in the Wiki site's footnotes is just an article by a guy with the Chinese-sounding last name, Chen, about Hani Hanjour. I thought that was amusing, since the word Han is Chinese for The Milky Way/The Heavenly River and a Hani (as like the words Saudi/Afghani/Iraqi) could indicate a person from a particular region -- iow, an earthling of the Milky Way. Han(plane)jour -- en plein jour: French for "in broad day" plane (prounounced PLAH-nay) is a Greek/Coptic term meaning "error, leading astray — "mind-bending" Btw, you've never answered my question yet about why there is no recorded engine-noise in the background of those alleged calls you say were made from the planes that day. Can you asnwer it now, please?
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
FLT77 was a Boeing 757 -1 (circa,1991) not equipped with the cabin door sensors as with a 757 -3 (circa, 1997) AND there are no records of any upgrade. More than that, FDR sensors not actively integrated are defaulted to "OFF" or "CLOSED." We discussed this issue at great length on FL's "Flt77 cabin door" thread a few days ago.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The other problem with Eager's explanation was that it relied on the jet fuel for heating which even NIST now admits was all burned up in the first ten minutes. Along with all that, the BIGGEST fundamental error is something that a freshman in Physics would see You've been repeatedly challenged to show any false statements in Eagar's WTC remarks, CV or patents. All you can do is smokescreen about elastic vs. inelastic collisions, which are completely unmentioned by Eagar. Eagar does say the WTC Towers were not designed with a 90,000 liter Molotov cocktail to be ignited in them. Your off-topic remarks about elastic vs inelastic collisions are typical Half Truther obfuscations. Once again you fail to rebut anything Eagar actually has said or published or patented. You confine your Half Truther remarks to things he did not ever say.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good one. Trees are not buildings, and buildings are not trees. Trees are 99% solid. Buildings are 95% air and nearly always will break when held sideways instead of vertically.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actual studies with access to data and facts instead of internet k00ksites.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have done so NUMEROUS times here. Does he or does he not use momentum as the basis for his analysis?
So now fundamental physics is in the realm of "Half Truther obfuscations", eh? It's obvious you know NOTHING at all about physics. I'd be surprised if you even attended high school.
Show me the analysis of the collapse times slick.
Were you chit-chatting with someone else? Because I haven't referenced Eager at all. [hint: use your edit feature and browse "Eager" from any of my references other than yours and FL's confused mental states.] You are being disengenuous again buck. My original post specifically mentioned Eager and MIT's connections to the CIA, and that much of what MIT does is under government funding. So, you are simply now trying to plead ignorance. While in many respects it is a convincing plea not in this case.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Oh that's right buck, YOU didn't personally post anything about Eager, it was your butt buddy AGAviator who did, and each time he did, you would publically felate him and declare victory.
1.Name of Hanjour's commercial flight school, and the name of his instructor 2.Actual copy of Hanjour's commercial pilot's license 3.Location and date of Hanjour's FAA commericial pilot's exam 4.Name of the FAA examiner who administered the exam You've been busted claiming Hanjour did not have any pilot licenses and couldn't fly anything. Now you're trying to cover up by demanding proof that he did, once it was shown to you that Hanjour did have a valid commercial pilot license in 1999. You've been provided leads to the sources and links where you can do your own research. I don't do research for Half Truthers. You either need to do your own, or admit you're incapable of it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Provide the documentation that he did, and not just CLAIMS that he did, find a copy of the license, which should indicate the location and date of the FAA exam, along with the name of the FAA examiner. His own instructors stated that he "COULD NOT FLY AT ALL".
Unrebutted Half Truther Circlejerk Debunkings (1) Two aircraft crashes released gigajoules of kinetic energy into the Twin Tower structures, and within 2 hours both structures collapsed from structural damage, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where was EITHER building being "held sideways"? Although the top of South Tower DID tilt (where it SHOULD have slid off or tumbled over), the North Tower did NOT tilt, it just decided to drop straight down with NO horizontal forces at work. So what "held it sideways", the hands of Allah or was it a UFO? Do you have video of that?
Posting the same discredited BS OVER, and OVER, and OVER, eh shill? You are beginning to remind me of another shillster that used to haunt LP, his name was BeAChooser. Any relation?
That much is obvious. It's ALSO obvious there IS no official record of Hanjour ever having a valid commercial pilot's license. That he had a piece of paper stating he did, according to reports, is NOT evidence that he did actually have one.
The WTC towers were built to SWAY in the wind. You don't seem to understand that even though I have pointed this out to you repeatedly. The upper floors swayed to such a degree in the wind that quite often on the upper floors people would complain of seasickness. They were not designed to to fall apart upon leaving the vertical plane. In fact, no building, even those not built to sway in the wind, is designed to fall apart upon leaving the vertical plane. And they quite often fall down sideways like trees in sections, and in some cases, the whole building. As matter of fact, that is the way most of them do fall in Earthquakes and Hurricanes, albeit in sections, not the whole building at once.
God is always good!
That's an outright lie! Everyone knows that the top of buildings are high in the sky just like trees!!! So there! ROTFL
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
More than that, FDR sensors not actively integrated are defaulted to "OFF" or "CLOSED." We discussed this issue at great length on FL's "Flt77 cabin door" thread a few days ago. No records doesn't exactly equate to no upgrade. There was reportedly a taped record, for instance, of ATC workers on duty that day which was said to have been destroyed by the management and lots of other records were said to have been lost from the disasters. I read most of that thread but thanks for the reply. I wasn't asking, though, about Flight 77 particularly but the claims made specifically about the previous 40 hours and 11 flights prior to 9/11. Btw, one of the ATC on duty that day, Pete Zalewski, was reportedly on duty during two other major air disasters. Egypt Air 990 was one. I'd have to research further for the other but I think it was a TWA flight, iirc.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
You are busted with most every post you make. Saying the WTC towers would fall apart if "held sideways." You sound like a kid, I know of no one that can "hold" a building, much less hold it sideways. And why is it that you think it would fall apart sideways anyway? Do you not think the same welds and bolts that hold the floors together vertically would work sideways as well? And even if the floors did not remain together because of shoddy construction, at the very least the core would. No one in their right mind would say the core of the towers would fall apart if sideways, expect you of course, but then again, you probably aren't in your right mind.
God is always good!
That is correct. Why should I?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You: Actual studies with access to data and facts instead of internet k00ksites. Link your sources, please, for that info. Wikipedia and the NTSB report cited there for that claim are invalidated as references for it, unless you can show otherwise.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Because you and your pal usually play tag team and post the same BS.
ROTFL.... Here is your ridulous reference @post#374 about your own awkward post: What a crock of BS... no facts, no witnesses, no research ... pure unadultered BS intended to throw the thread off track.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Finally admitting your strategy here, eh buck?
I am not an airplane pilot. I am an degreed engineer though. So, I don't argue from AG's viewpoint and although he agrees with some of my posts, he doesn't discuss relevant issues from mine. Why are you so passionate about proving the incredible by pushing on a rope?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Please list any bridges or anything you've had a hand in, I'll make sure I avoid them at all costs.
Any patents Eager might have are irrelevant. It is nothing more than an appeal to authority. What is relevant are the actual facts of the situation and the observed phenomena as compared to known data. What a delightful disinformation graphic. The fires did not reach 2,000 degrees F. Given the available fuel, even if we assume every drop burned in the building (which we know it did not) ten thousand gallons of jet fuel had, at most, the energy required to heat the buildings to about 536 degrees. Well below any of the critical threshholds. (As you well know the calculations have been previously posted.) I like the way the article maximizes the quantity of fuel by saying 60,000 pounds instead of ten thousand gallons - of which all was gone in ten minutes and most of it outside the building. I also love the weasel wording "damaging the upper floors" which is intended to make it sound like every upper level floor was damaged. And the rigidity of the structure and the amount of elasticity is absolutely relevant as it tells how much resistance the structure is going to offer to an impact either from the jet, minimal effect, or the upper floors collapsing. Again you show that all you have at your disposal is misrepresentations and false data.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Oh and BTW, Eager is not a pilot either. He is a MIT professor who claims it was perfectly possible for the collapse to occur as it did, using momentum calculations to "prove" his point. Thing is, those calculations are worthless since he made the fundamental error of treating the collisions as elastic, rather than inelastic. As a "degreed engineer", you should know about those things. Apparently, you obtained your degree at the same school Hanjour acquired his "commercial pilot's license", the University of the inkjet printer.
P.S. You avoided my question again about why there is no engine-noise in the background of what you assert are phone calls from the planes. How many times have you done that now? More importantly, why do you keep avoiding that question?
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
What sort of engineer, sanitation?
What else can be expected from those in the 911 Liars Movement?
Where have you seen that? The impact of the aircraft seriously weakened about 6 floors around the adjacent impact (81st and 96th floors) therein causing the upper floors to fall because of the lack of support. As always O_I... you blow shit out your keyboard beyond your ass.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I design high speed data networks, MSEE.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Yes, the collapse occurred... I haven't read anything about Eager. @post#644, I provided a picture of the idea..... what is your comment?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Misleading as always buckster. The planes, based on the angle of impact, did not critically damage the primary load bearing structure the immensely strong core which consisted of heavy cross braced steel beams and a LOT of concrete. This is particularly noticeable on the plane hitting the South Tower which enters at an angle near the center but the nose exits in the outside corner where the big orange fireball, which was most of the planes fuel load burning outstide the building, occurs. It is doubtful that it could have damaged more than one or two of the 47 heavy steel crossbraced support columns in the primary load bearing structure i.e., the core. I will say that your command of illogic is stunning.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Comments (681 - 1209) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestI posted a half dozen links in response to your post, which was a response to mine talking about Eager's connections and likely government funding, illustrating the connections between M.I.T. and CIA.
#641. To: FormerLurker (#637)
The other problem with Eager's explanation was that it relied on the jet fuel for heating which even NIST now admits was all burned up in the first ten minutes.
#642. To: FormerLurker (#637)
Along with all that, the BIGGEST fundamental error is something that a freshman in Physics would see, and that is the fact that you CAN'T make believe kinetic energy is conserved by treating the collisions between floors as elastic collisions, they were inelastic, thus his entire analysis is bogus.
#643. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker (#642)
#644. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker (#643)
#645. To: AGAviator, abraxas, James Deffenbach, All (#377)
(Edited)
The false statement that Flight 77's cabin door was not opened has been demonstrated to be a lie
#646. To: GreyLmist, FormerLurker (#645)
#647. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#637)
(Edited)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#648. To: buckeroo (#644)
And here is another picture illustrating the concept:
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#649. To: GreyLmist (#645)
Where did you get your info claiming the FDR did not show any movement for 40 hours and 11 flights prior to September 11?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#650. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent (#647)
You've been repeatedly challenged to show any false statements in Eagar's WTC remarks, CV or patents.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#651. To: AGAviator (#647)
Your off-topic remarks about elastic vs inelastic collisions are typical Half Truther obfuscations.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#652. To: buckeroo (#643)
I think a picture is worth a thousand words.... is the above picture close to your explanation, too?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#653. To: buckeroo (#640)
I posted a half dozen links in response to your post, which was a response to mine talking about Eager's connections and likely government funding, illustrating the connections between M.I.T. and CIA.
#654. To: buckeroo, AGAviator, Original_Intent (#640)
Were you chit-chatting with someone else? Because I haven't referenced Eager at all. [hint: use your edit feature and browse "Eager" from any of my references other than yours and FL's confused mental states.]
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#655. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#620)
(Edited)
Provide the following documentation;
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#656. To: AGAviator (#655)
You've been busted claiming Hanjour did not have any pilot licenses and couldn't fly anything.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#657. To: FormerLurker (#651)
(Edited)
It's obvious you know NOTHING at all about physics.
(2) A fireman is recorded on video saying a third WTC Building, WTC7, will be going down because the building is losing its structural stability from crash damage and uncontrolled fires,
(3) Over 30 calls from hijacked aircraft were logged including several by flight attendants giving seat numbers and descriptions of hijackers,
(4) The false statement that Flight 77's cabin door was not opened has been demonstrated to be a lie, as there is no evidence about any cabin door operation of that aircraft either during or before the September 11 flight,
(5) The lauded "peer review publication" of Tw00ferk00ks Steven Jones and Niels Harrit have been shown to be pay-to- publish articles for which $800 was given to a Dhubai publishing mill, with zero other peer reviewed articles
(6) The phrase "pull" as used by the demolition industry means "pull down with cables," and as used by firefighters means "pull back from site,"
(7) Flight 77 impacted a recently-renovated portion of the Pentagon which was not fully occupied and still had construction equipment in place, and
(8) It's a physical impossibility for a structure to both be flexible enough to absorb gigajoules of energy, move away from vertical centerline, return to vertical centerline on its own, then be rigid enough to provide a fixed platform for a rotating and falling top section to collapse outside the building footprint
(9) The actual free fall times of the WTC towers have been conclusively shown as 15+ seconds for 1 tower and 22+ seconds for the other, an order of magnitude above the claimed "free fall time" of 9.22 seconds which is supposed to be evidence of a controlled demolition
(10) Claimed molten steel evidence of thermite flowing from 80th floors is actually melted aluminum and burning offrice debris cooling on way down, with the aluminum not hot enough to remain melted as it falls a few hundred feet
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#658. To: AGAviator (#648)
Buildings are 95% air and nearly always will break when held sideways instead of vertically.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#659. To: AGAviator (#657)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#660. To: AGAviator (#655)
I don't do research
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#661. To: AGAviator (#648)
Trees are 99% solid. Buildings are 95% air and nearly always will break when held sideways instead of vertically.
#662. To: AGAviator (#648)
Trees are not buildings, and buildings are not trees.
#663. To: buckeroo (#646)
FLT77 was a Boeing 757 -1 (circa,1991) not equipped with the cabin door sensors as with a 757 -3 (circa, 1997) AND there are no records of any upgrade.
#664. To: AGAviator (#655)
You've been busted
#665. To: FormerLurker (#654)
Oh that's right buck, YOU didn't personally post anything about Eager
#666. To: AGAviator (#649)
Me: Where did you get your info claiming the FDR did not show any movement for 40 hours and 11 flights prior to September 11?
#667. To: buckeroo (#665)
That is correct. Why should I?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#668. To: Original_Intent, AGAviator (#653)
My original post specifically mentioned Eager and MIT's connections to the CIA, and that much of what MIT does is under government funding.
Eager appears to have been brought on board to provide "credibility" to the preposterous Official Conspiracy Theory™.
#669. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent (#668)
... no facts, no witnesses, no research ... pure unadultered BS intended to throw the thread off track.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#670. To: FormerLurker (#667)
Because you and your pal usually play tag team and post the same BS.
#671. To: buckeroo (#670)
I am an degreed engineer though.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#672. To: AGAviator (#647)
You've been repeatedly challenged to show any false statements in Eagar's WTC remarks, CV or patents.
#673. To: buckeroo (#670)
I am not an airplane pilot.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#674. To: AGAviator (#649)
#675. To: buckeroo (#670)
I am an degreed engineer
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#676. To: Original_Intent (#672)
Again you show that all you have at your disposal is misrepresentations and false data.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#677. To: Original_Intent (#672)
I also love the weasel wording "damaging the upper floors" which is intended to make it sound like every upper level floor was damaged.
#678. To: FormerLurker (#675)
#679. To: FormerLurker (#673)
... it was perfectly possible for the collapse to occur as it did
#680. To: buckeroo (#677)
The impact of the aircraft seriously weakened about 6 floors around the adjacent impact (81st and 96th floors) therein causing the upper floors to fall because of the lack of support.
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