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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 18915
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#800. To: AGAviator (#769)
Go ask the Chinese for that, maybe they haven't buried or otherwise destroyed all the evidence yet. I doubt you'd find det cord or detonators within whatever was left of the buildings though, since most everything turned to dust.
AG ... did you see how FL has vacillated his opinion.... again? He and his entire cockamamie crowd make that claim.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You just accused me of making the claim that the towers fell at free fall speed, yet you have the balls to cry to your boyfriend that I just stated the obvious fact that is indeed what you did?
I see.. because YOU say so. Yeah, you made a post or two wherein you have called me a liar..... and you retracted them. Are you going to retract this one too?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The towers DID NOT FALL AT FREE FALL SPEEDS. Is that clear?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You are lying RIGHT HERE. I NEVER retracted any statement accusing you of lying, that in itself is an outrageous lie.
Nobody ever said they did? So?
The towers fell CLOSE to free fall speeds however.
All BLDGS UNDER CD fall at freefall speeds... your idea disproved.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
No, but it was much faster than it should have been to be a progressive pancake collapse. Not to mention that a vast amount of energy needed to keep the pancaking occurring was being directed outward and upward as seen in the photos. That would not occur without explosives being used. So you have once again been proven wrong.
God is always good!
Wrong. They fall close to freefall speeds, but they do not fall at free fall speeds. You should know the difference since you claim to be a real-time expert. The timing of the explosions has to be precise to get the desired result of the building collapsing in on itself.
God is always good!
Pure BS. No matter HOW LONG it would take for a REGULAR demolition utilizing explosives, a COVERT demolition would NOT make it obvious to the world that is what happened, so would incorporate SOME delay in the timing of the explosives to make it look like it was something other than explosives which took the building down. I'd like to see ANY example of a KNOWN demolition where the upper-most part of the structure hit the ground at EXACTLY free fall speed.
Another idea pulled out of your ass, 'eh? Still, no FACTS supporting CD other than mere speculation. Have you opted to be a complete ruby-red-lipped-sticked klown?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Half Truther Stock in Trade: Change your story when you get debunked on specifics For 8 years +, Half Truthers have been pushing the free fall scenario every chance they get. Now you want to disassociate yourself from them because the evidence shows that didn't happen. So now do you repudiate the Tw00fers claiming free fall? I doubt it. Well, you've got a lot of work to do getting them back onto reservation. 0:06 "You know how fast...caused towers to fall? Nine seconds. You know how long it would take something to free fall with no resistance? Nine seconds. It's physically impossible."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't care what sort of disinfo crap you can find on the net, what I am saying, and what everybody here on this forum has said, is that the towers fell CLOSE to free fall speed, which is IMPOSSIBLE UNLESS controlled explosives were used, or some other means of demolition, be it exotic weaponry or standard C4.
What part of "not wanting to expose the demolition as an obvious demolition" don't you understand, buttercup?
He vacillates any time given a chance... he could care less about the truth of our country; I think he finds it far more easy to speculate than doing anything about the essential issues. Good video.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You don't understand CD, do you .. especially on some of the largest buildings on the planet such as the twin towers, do you? I imagine that you think of black ninjas creeping up the side panels of the WTC and then scurrying placing a CD... got photos? Or even the maintenance crew (24 hour a day work) or even management coming clean about something going on? Poor puppy. FL, you have turned into a pathetic waste of my time on the Internet. You can't show anything about a conspiracy.... other than maybe... possibly ... I think... ROTFL.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You don't understand CD, do you .. especially on some of the largest buildings on the planet such as the twin towers, do you? It's apparent that you understand CD as well as you understand physics, in other words, you haven't the faintest clue about it. I imagine that you think of black ninjas creeping up the side panels of the WTC and then scurrying placing a CD... got photos? Oh yes buttercup, that's what I'm suggesting. I guess you missed the post that explained how the elevators were being serviced weeks before the 9/11 attacks, and that would have been the perfect opportunity to plant explosives. Oh wait, I DID post that to you, and now you're pretending that I didn't. How surprising.
I'm wondering more and more if you aren't really BAC...
Unlike yourself familiar with maintenance crew regular duties to service the buildings, I must ask was there an eye-witness about planting CD? Or were they in on the conspiracy, too?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
which is proof enough that what they claimed to have happened did not happen the way they claim, and to top it off they've invested all their defense in the likes of bucky and AGairrectum.
Not true.
You know, you have called me a liar time and again throughout this thread. I have been tolerant, too, showing the errors of your own posts. You can't be objective to FACTS. You have your mind made up...
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
His hero, AlGore™ invented the Internet, did he not?
Oh, you have a widdle itty-bitty match stick struck under a chemtrail?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
he'll do that as quickly as he'll come up with the videos showing what really happened at the pentagon.
facts? you've posted no facts WRT what really happened on 9-11-01.
Here is a link PROVING hanjour had a FAA certificate: www.gpoaccess.gov/serials...pdf/fullreport_errata.pdf .. you read it... I am tired of the BS that some of you wantonly spew. No wonder America is all fucked upped. The problem is far beyond just voters ... it is the speculators that don't know SHIT/
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Where are your facts? That someone was caught up in a calamity?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I believe he made such a claim or something close to it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. No... you did Jimmy, time and time again... just distort the truth using your fucked-upped caricature of my posts within the single cell of your own mind. So, prove I have ever used AlGore as a reference. If you can't, you have lied again.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
if that were true bucky wouldn't be here, he wouldn't have real time to be here.
He will have a better chance of coming up with that guy's FAA commercial license than he will of coming up with Obama's real birth certificate. Still there is no video of the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon. After all this time it has never been released. The supposed eyewitnesses to the event all have different stories, with many of them not aligning with the official story. Yet just about everyone has seen the videos of the planes hitting the Towers. Why does the Pentagon refuse to release one of the many high quality videos they have of the time flight 77 allegedly hit the Pentagon? My guess is that they show no plane hitting the Pentagon at that time. All it will show is the wall already blown up minutes earlier by bombs. It's amazing what Muslim terrorists living in caves in Afghanistan can do to get by the security of the most secure building in the world to plant those bombs. No one would ever buy that they were able to so such a thing, so the plane hitting the Pentagon story had to be made up in advance. And the reason they didn't just go ahead and hit the Pentagon with a plane like flight 77 is because Rumsfeld was there at the time and he didn't want to take a chance of being killed by a real jumbo jet smashing into the Pentagon.
God is always good!
The Pentagon? This thread is about the WTC... are you daft?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
no that is a link claiming hanjour had an FAA certificate. cough up the certificate.
Where's the proof? I want to see a copy of the FAA license, and/or information as to what commercial flight school he attended, and the location and date of his FAA exam.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Somebody who doesn't know shit about TCP/IP or how the Internet works invented his own real-time kernal. Yeah, and Al Gore was your co-developer right?
It is all related to the terror events of 9/11. They were all allegedly done by the same group. God is always good!
just like the ever vigilant member of the liar movement, bucky knows there are obvious holes in official fairy tale WRT the pentagon and those holes translate into holes in the whole 9-11 fabrication the government has put forth. the tale bucky defends holds as much truth as a sieve holds water.
dang! kick him where his testicles would be if he had any why don't you.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestInstead of wanting the slightest shred of det cord, or detonators, or appropriate amounts of barium nitrate in the debris and residue
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#801. To: AGAviator, all (#796)
You and your pal [AGAviator] have made MANY false claims ACCUSING people here of saying they [WTC] fell at free fall speed
#802. To: buckeroo, ALLL (#801)
AG ... did you see how FL has vacillated his opinion.... again? He and his entire cockamamie crowd make that claim.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#803. To: FormerLurker (#799)
What is proven is that you are a bold-faced liar.
#804. To: FormerLurker (#802)
#805. To: buckeroo (#803)
I see.. because YOU say so. Yeah, you made a post or two wherein you have called me a liar..... and you retracted them. Are you going to retract this one too?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#806. To: buckeroo (#804)
The towers DID NOT FALL AT FREE FALL SPEEDS. Is that clear?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#807. To: buckeroo (#804)
The towers DID NOT FALL AT FREE FALL SPEEDS
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#808. To: FormerLurker (#807)
The towers fell CLOSE to free fall speeds however.
#809. To: buckeroo (#792)
(Edited)
Proof that the WTC towers did not collapse at freefall.
#810. To: buckeroo (#808)
All BLDGS UNDER CD fall at freefall speeds... your idea disproved.
#811. To: buckeroo (#808)
All BLDGS UNDER CD fall at freefall speeds... your idea disproved.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#812. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#811)
a COVERT demolition would NOT make it obvious to the world that is what happened, so would incorporate SOME delay in the timing of the explosives to make it look like it was something other than explosives which took the building down.
#813. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#811)
(Edited)
a COVERT demolition would NOT make it obvious to the world that is what happened, so would incorporate SOME delay in the timing
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#814. To: AGAviator (#813)
For 8 years +, Half Truthers have been pushing the free fall scenario every chance they get. Now you want to disassociate yourself from them because the evidence shows that didn't happen.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#815. To: buckeroo (#812)
Another idea pulled out of your ass, 'eh? Still, no FACTS supporting CD other than mere speculation. Have you opted to be a complete ruby-red-lipped-sticked klown?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#816. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker (#813)
So now do you [FormerLuker] repudiate the Tw00fers claiming free fall?
#817. To: FormerLurker (#815)
What part of "not wanting to expose the demolition as an obvious demolition" don't you understand
#818. To: buckeroo, RickyJ (#817)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#819. To: buckeroo (#817)
(Edited)
ROTFL.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#820. To: FormerLurker (#818)
I guess you missed the post that explained how the elevators were being serviced weeks before the 9/11 attacks, and that would have been the perfect opportunity to plant explosives.
#821. To: FormerLurker (#707)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#822. To: buckeroo, RickyJ, FormerLurker (#808)
All BLDGS UNDER CD fall at freefall speeds...
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#823. To: IRTorqued (#821)
#824. To: abraxas, FormerLurker, buckeroo, RIckyJ, James Deffenbach (#759)
Didn't you know that Buck is the Alpha and the Omega of the Internet?
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#825. To: wudidiz (#822)
#826. To: FormerLurker (#737)
Again, find a copy of the FAA commercial license and put this matter to rest.
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#827. To: buckeroo (#823)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#828. To: IRTorqued (#826)
#829. To: IRTorqued (#827)
you've posted no facts WRT what really happened on 9-11-01.
#830. To: wudidiz (#824)
His hero, AlGore™ invented the Internet, did he not?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#831. To: James Deffenbach (#830)
I believe he [buckeroo]made such a claim or something close to it.
#832. To: FormerLurker (#770)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#833. To: IRTorqued (#826)
(Edited)
#834. To: RickyJ (#833)
My guess is that they show no plane hitting the Pentagon at that time.
#835. To: buckeroo (#828)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#836. To: buckeroo (#828)
Here is a link PROVING hanjour had a FAA certificate: www.gpoaccess.gov/serials...pdf/fullreport_errata.pdf .. you read it... I am tired of the BS that some of you wantonly spew.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#837. To: buckeroo, IRTorqued (#770)
My RT kernal. I deliver some of the fastest response times under the Sun.... it is proprietary.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#838. To: buckeroo (#834)
The Pentagon? This thread is about the WTC... are you daft?
#839. To: RickyJ (#834)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#840. To: FormerLurker (#837)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
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