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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 18783
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#865. To: AGAviator (#864)
If there were credibile evidence, you would have posted it. I haven't seen one shred of credible evidence in terms of whether or not there were skyphones on any of the aircraft which allegedly were used in the 9/11 attacks. Oh, and keep up the ad hominems, it really reinforces your position.
To me it is as simple watching a video of the towers come down. Gravity would not produce such forceful sideways and upward thrust of debris away from the towers. Not to mention asymmetrical damage could not produce a symmetrical collapse. Actualy I think only controlled demolitions can produce symmetrical collapses. Just further proof they blew the towers up.
God is always good!
Barry Jennings says you are liar about bombs being in the buildings. He was there and heard them.
God is always good!
That is certainly a strong indication that something other than gravity brought the buildings down. It's virtually impossible to have a totally symmetrical collapse without the use of explosives.
What, are you a KOOK or something? LOL! Good one. (I thought you might be missing BAC but I believe his twin has started posting here).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. 15/9 is 1.67, so it's not OVER TWICE, it's 1.67 times. What it comes down to is that it took 6 extra seconds to demolish a 110 story steel and concrete skyscraper than it would have taken for a rubber ball to drop from the very top of it. So yes, that IS relatively close to free fall. I explicitly said 1.5 to over double. 1.67 is greater than 1.5, and 22 is over twice 9.22. I'm right on both counts. You're doing your usual Half Truther obfuscation trying to hide that it's the Half Truthers who've been claiming 9.22 seconds free fall conspiracy for the last 8+ years and they are proven WRONG. That's nifty little shapeshifting theory you've got. But it's a lie. If something takes 9.22 seconds, it's supposed to be evidence of a conspiracy. And if it doesn't take 9.22 seconds, then it's supposed to be evidence of a conspiracy + a coverup. Straight from the father of all lies, Half Truther. Talking out of your a$$ again? How about the President of Controlled Demolitions, Inc. You know more than he does? Mark Loizeaux - President of Cont. Demolition Inc 0:54 "Then there's the placing of all the hundreds of explosive charges. Plus literally miles of insulating cable, and miles more of detonating cord.." 1:10 Question: "Building 7, occupied, and literally no one has seen anything?" 1:15 Answer: "In a screen play. In a movie. Something with Bruce Willis in it, maybe. Um, in reality - no." 2:27 "What does an explosion sound like? Most people don't know, because most people have never heard one. So any sharp, loud "bang," "that's probably an explosion." 3:22 "I didn't see windows broken on the backs of buildings. Only where debris falling from the towers struck...If explosives of the magnitude necessary to cut the columns in a big building were detonated, the windows all around would have been shattered. Ther's no way around it." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry Jennings said no such thing, Half Truther, but as long as you want to quote him, have him produce the slightest fragment of explosive residue, igniters, det cord, or timing devices.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and still nothing but silence WRT all those videos seized from around the pentagon.
I say subject marvin bush to waterboarding and see what he has to say about explocives in the WTC and everything he knows about airport security. subject AGovshill to same but save the time of asking questions as it is obvious he knows nothing.
Awesome resource. I wish I had found it .... but independently PROVED the BS about the cabin door through original Boeing and FAA material.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Got a link?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Bullshit, it simply lists the FLT DECK DOOR parameter as unconfirmed.
What a complete and total ass you are. So if it took 9.23 seconds, there's no demolition, but if it took 9.22, well then there is. That's an extreme, but SIX seconds (or less) difference STILL is NOT NORMAL, and NOT DUE TO GRAVITY. 110 stories of steel and cement does not come apart in 6 seconds without a bit of help.
That means there is no valid data, so claims of events not happening or happening are lies. So you lose.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you speak English much? Do you know the difference between UNCONFIRMED and INVALID?
It took anywhere from 1.5 to 2.2 times what CT controlled demolition theory says it should have taken and did, shyster. You've Half Truthers have been hosted on your own petard. Eat your lies. And you are tap dancing away from, and have not addressed, the interview with Mark Loizeaux, President of Controlled Demolition I posted. Loizeaux explicity says it took "months" to prepare buildings far smaller than WTC for CD, that this prep work was totally necessary, that it's absolutely impossible for people spending time doing this much prep work not to be noticed, and that people not familar with what explosions sound like think that any "sharp loud bang" is an explosion even though it isn't. Once again you get your a$$ handed to you, and once again you will try to divert the discussion into quibbling over minutiae and definitions instead of resolving the basic question.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Show me any ***valid**** data, then, idiot. If there is nothing to confirm to begin with, then "no valid data" is the proper term to be used.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We're talking about SIX SECONDS DIFFERENCE MORON, not minutes or hours. As far as HOW the explosives were planted, it could have been done over years time, but the perfect opportunity for the finishing touches would have been weeks before 9/11 where the elevators were being serviced, and the weekend before 9/11 where the power was shutdown in order to "run new cables" throughout the building. Now go high five yourself in the mirror for being such a genius, even though you couldn't figure any of that on your own.
We are some 800+ posts into this thread. For four different events, not one shred of government or for that matter, anyone, planting bombs, falsifying records, covering-up, witnesses, hard fact or anything BUT ... "someone" said this and "someone" said that. These vague and nebulous expressions offered as proof shows the level of conspiracy theory addiction our fellow posters possess. It is a wonder they can get through the day without hiding from the government out to murder them too.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Write to American Airlines and ask for their maintenance info on Flight 77. It's not publically available. And that's the only way to find out if those sensors were actually wired, and if the data was actually being collected. The maintenance manual for the aircraft indicates those parameters were in fact valid parameters, but it's uncertain if the manual covers all 757's or not. Now go find Hanjour's FAA Commericial License and get back to me when you do. Idiot.
Go help your pal find Hanjour's FAA Commercial License. Until somebody does, there's no evidence that he ever really had one, and the piece of paper he showed people could very well have been a forgery.
I already showed that his certification records have been witnessed and in the testimony in Congress about 9/11...... why should do your research.... by the way in that same document, it discloses who trained Hanjour and helped him through the testing processes. Why don't you read the document that I already provided. At any rate, it means nothing. He crashed FLT77 into the Pentagon. End of story other than the tremendous tragedy these hijackers performed on 9/11.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Incredible.... at least you are starting to see the light!
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Oh yeah, 888 for Ab.......
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Wtong. You lie as fast as you can type. In his video, Mark Loizeaux explicitly says the explosives used have a shelf life of 3 years, and beyond 3 years there's no assurance they will go off. Not only is there a 3 year window to use the explosives, they would need to be set up in 3 separate buildings, each of which is multiple times larger than the largest building ever imploded - done by Controlled Demolitions - in New York City and listed in the Guiness Book of World Records. So making your whoppers to avoid one issue, just gets you in deeper and deeper.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just because an instructor claims to have seen it isn't evidence that it exists, it's simply hearsay evidence. You'd think if there WERE a real certificate, it'd be included as an exhibit in the 9/11 Commission report. Again, where's the info on which commercial flight school he attended in order to train for his commercial license? More than likely there ISN'T ANY, because more than likely he NEVER RECEIVED THAT LICENSE. The FAA should have a record of it if he DID have one. They would ALSO know what flight school he attended, where the exam was taken, when it was taken, and which FAA examiner performed the exam. Where is THAT information buckie?
In his video, Mark Loizeaux explicitly says the explosives used have a shelf life of 3 years, and beyond 3 years there's no assurance they will go offr. Wow, besides lying through your teeth, you type badly when you get owned. Is Mark Loizeaux admitting that he planted the explosives in the WTC? How would HE know what type was used? You first say he said it could take months to wire a building and place the explosives, which is more than likely a real stretch, but ok, I simply responded that they had YEARS to plant it ahead of time. Now you say I'm lying, because I simply stated the obvious, where YOU are lying by accusing ME of lying.
What a numbskull. Where do you get that from just because unlike you he actually knows what it takes to do such a job. There are industry standard explosives used to blast cleanly through steel columns. You think someone is just going to go out and buy a bunch of firecrackers, duct tape them to the largest structures in the world, and hope for the best? Gawd you're dumb and with every post getting dumber.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Read pages 225-226 of this 9/11 Commission report. Hanjour had both a private pilot's license AND a FAA pilot's certificate for commercial aircraft. You lose again, pal.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Isn't this a fun thread? I knew you would enjoy this stuff.....
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Is there a copy of each displayed there? Is there an attachement with that information in the doc?
Oh, and you think commerical demolition companies have access to military grade explosives, eh? What a shmuck...
I think I'm going to make a list of all the dodges used to deny the obvious. Like "Here's a report showing Hanjour had an FAA license," with the reply "I demand to see the signed original." Or "Contrary to claims of free fall of 9.22 seconds, actual fall times were 15.28 and 22 seconds respectively," with the reply "But it's only 1.67 times more than what has been claimed for the last 8 years." LOL!!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Architects and Engineer for 911 Truth; Who the fuck said anything about "military grade explosives," other than yourself, pinhead? Military explosives are used to blow the $hit out of stuff with little or no regard to where the debris ends up. Controlled demolition explosives are used to make sure that things they're used on end up where they're intended to be put. A world of difference. One whopper after another debunked. You're pathetic, Half Truther.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where's the proof they were used? How many, and where? Where are the shreds of the HiEx devices from the debris? Why would a new technique be used on 3 buildings all larger than the world record for CD's?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LIAR. I asked for any image or PDF which contained a COPY of the FAA Commericial License. All you have is hearday evidence, and not a shred of any REAL evidence. Or "Contrary to claims of free fall of 9.22 seconds, actual fall times were 15.28 and 22 seconds respectively," with the reply "But it's only 1.67 times more than what has been claimed for the last 8 years." The "22 second" collapse time is debatable, but the way you worded your original statement, you implied it could be up over twice as much for EITHER tower. And I said we are talking about 6 seconds between your alleged collapse time and MINIMUM FREE FALL TIME where you said it's somewhere up to over TWICE as much time, where it's less than that for one, and we are NOT talking about minutes or hours, but seconds, SIX SECONDS to destroy an entire 110 story skyscraper made of steel and cement.
Why don't you read the document as opposed to asking questions? You said earlier, that Hanjour's pilot certification wasn't in the 911 Commission Report. Either you made that SHIT up or you never read the report.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Where's the proof that they weren't? Only an imbecile would think you'd have to run around with det cords in this day and age, and that the latest equipment wouldn't be used for such a major undertaking.
So you're saying there's an actual image of his FAA Commerical License in that report, right?
I really like this comment: Or what happened to the pentagon videos? "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThere's plenty of evidence. I've posted thousands of words of links and videos while you and your pals are engaging in your snide gaybanter projections.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#866. To: FormerLurker (#863)
(Edited)
#867. To: AGAviator (#864)
I've posted thousands of words of links and videos while you and your pals are engaging in your snide gaybanter projections.
#868. To: RickyJ (#866)
Not to mention asymmetrical damage could not produce a symmetrical collapse.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#869. To: RickyJ (#848)
Probably the same the same thing that happened to the high quality videos of the moon landings. They got taped over to save money. LOL!
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#870. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#862)
(Edited)
One and a half to over twice the time of a freefall is not RELATIVELY CLOSE. What an idiot. Of COURSE it is relatively close, to any rational person that is.
LOL, so now you're claiming to be an expert on controlled demolitions, eh? You don't know jack about it, and for ANYONE to have pulled it off covertly, where it could be plausibly denied, it COULDN'T have been done any other way.
0:20 "The largest steel structure we've taken down..Guiness Record...Hudson Building...It took months to prepare the structure...months...there's just no way to get around it...You go ahead and knock out, usually, all the walls..."
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#871. To: RickyJ, buckeroo (#867)
Barry Jennings says you are liar about bombs being in the buildings.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#872. To: James Deffenbach, wudidiz, RickyJ, GreyLmist, FormerLurker, James Deffenbach, Rotara, abraxas, Original_Intent (#869)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#873. To: AGAviator, wudidiz, RickyJ, GreyLmist, FormerLurker, James Deffenbach, Rotara, abraxas, Original_Intent (#871)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#874. To: AGAviator (#857)
www.ntsb.gov/info/AAL77_fdr.pdf
#875. To: FormerLurker (#868)
It's virtually impossible to have a totally symmetrical collapse without the use of explosives.
#876. To: buckeroo (#874)
but independently PROVED the BS about the cabin door through original Boeing and FAA material.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#877. To: AGAviator (#870)
That's nifty little shapeshifting theory you've got. But it's a lie. If something takes 9.22 seconds, it's supposed to be evidence of a conspiracy. And if it doesn't take 9.22 seconds, then it's supposed to be evidence of a conspiracy + a coverup.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#878. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#876)
Bullshit, it simply lists the FLT DECK DOOR parameter as unconfirmed.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#879. To: AGAviator (#878)
That means there is no valid data, so claims of events not happening or happening are lies.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#880. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#877)
So if it took 9.23 seconds, there's no demolition, but if it took 9.22, well then there is.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#881. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#879)
Do you speak English much? Do you know the difference between UNCONFIRMED and INVALID?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#882. To: AGAviator (#880)
It took anywhere from 1.5 to 2.2 times what CT controlled demolition theory says it should have taken and did, shyster.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#883. To: AGAviator (#881)
Show me any ***valid**** data
#884. To: AGAviator (#881)
Show me any ***valid**** data, then, idiot.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#885. To: buckeroo (#883)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#886. To: FormerLurker (#885)
Go help your pal find Hanjour's FAA Commercial License.
#887. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#884)
but it's uncertain if the manual covers all 757's or not.
#888. To: buckeroo (#887)
#889. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#882)
(Edited)
As far as HOW the explosives were planted, it could have been done over years time, but the perfect opportunity for the finishing touches would have been weeks before 9/11 where the elevators were being serviced
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#890. To: buckeroo (#886)
I already showed that his certification records have been witnessed and in the testimony in Congress about 9/11......
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#891. To: AGAviator (#889)
Wtong. You lie as fast as you can type.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#892. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#891)
Is Mark Loizeaux admitting that he planted the explosives in the WTC? How would HE know what type was used?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#893. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#890)
(Edited)
You'd think if there WERE a real certificate, it'd be included as an exhibit in the 9/11 Commission report.
#894. To: AGAviator (#892)
You think someone is just going to go out and buy a bunch of firecrackers, duct tape them to the largest structures in the world, and hope for the best?
#895. To: buckeroo (#893)
Read pages 225-226 of this 9/11 Commission report. Hanjour had both a private pilot's license AND a FAA pilot's certificate for commercial aircraft.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#896. To: AGAviator (#892)
There are industry standard explosives used to blast cleanly through steel columns.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#897. To: buckeroo (#894)
Isn't this a fun thread? I knew you would enjoy this stuff.....
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#898. To: AGAviator, buckeroo, Original_Intent, wudidiz, RickyJ, IRTorqued, abraxas (#854)
there has never been even a single shred of det cord, timing devices, or thermite/blasting igniters discovered at any site at any time.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#899. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#896)
Oh, and you think commerical demolition companies have access to military grade explosives, eh
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#900. To: FormerLurker (#898)
From Architects and Engineer for 911 Truth;
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#901. To: AGAviator (#897)
Like "Here's a report showing Hanjour had an FAA license," with the reply "I demand to see the signed original."
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#902. To: FormerLurker (#895)
#903. To: AGAviator (#900)
Where's the proof they were used?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#904. To: buckeroo (#902)
You said earlier, that Hanjour's pilot certification wasn't in the 911 Commission Report. Either you made that SHIT up or you never read the report.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#905. To: AGAviator (#897)
LOL!!!!
Probably the same the same thing that happened to the high quality videos of the moon landings. They got taped over to save money. -- RickyJ @post#848.
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