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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 25754
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#154. To: abraxas, AGAviator (#117)
Everyone of the trade center buildings fell from the top or mid-levels downward ... not from the subfloors (less than ground level) to the top up. All photographic evidence shows that point.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Thanks James........here's a funny joke for you. : ) A senior citizen's excuse---- A senior citizen drove his brand new Corvette convertible out of the dealership. Taking off down the road, he floored it to 80 mph, enjoying the wind blowing through what little hair he had left. "Amazing," he thought as he flew down I-95, pushing the pedal even more. Looking in his rear view mirror, he saw a state trooper behind him, lights flashing and siren blaring. He floored it to 100 mph, then 110, then 120. Suddenly he thought, "What am I doing? I'm too old for this," and pulled over to await the trooper's arrival. Pulling in behind him, the trooper walked up to the Corvette, looked at his watch, and said, "Sir, my shift ends in 30 minutes. Today is Friday. If you can give me a reason for speeding that I've never heard before, I'll let you go." The old gentleman paused. Then said, "Years ago, my wife ran off with a State trooper. I thought you were bringing her back..." "Have a good day, sir," replied the trooper.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Right, you know more than the guy who worked in the building on maintenance for more than a decade. Yes, from your far away DISadvantage point you feel that you can ridicule those who were there while you spit on your monitor. The guy who worked there should have been a key person of interest for NIST.....but they have to INGORE him and the EXPLOSIONS because he doesn't jive with the government conspiracy theory.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Buildings only fall into their own foot print when critical structural integrity on the foundation is blown out. Photographic evidence and testimony from demo EXPERTS, not Internet bloviators, confirm that.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Are you aware of the foundation about the subfloors for WTC7? If so, let me know ... I do. WT7 was built on an old Edison Power regeneration facility with subfloors extending 6 floors below ground level. It was an echo chamber during the calamity. I know the janitor heard lots of things... but he didn't see a blast and he wasn't killed in a blast was he? BTW, most all 4,000 occupants of WTC7 had been evacuated before the first tower collapse.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
And that Corvette wouldn't do but 120? WTH? Did he buy a lemon? ahaha.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. That's part of what does it for me. We are talking not one, not two but three buildings. All of which are damaged differently, burning differently yet fall perfectly in their own foot prints. Really? What are the odds of that happening without explosive guidance?
Name calling is juvenile.
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Buck, that janiter was in the main towers. I don't know who did the maintenance in WT7......all I know is that building was far less damaged than 3,4,5 and 6 and they didn't fall into their own footprint and Larry Silverstein didn't say "pull it" on any of those buildings. Actually, you don't know what the janitor says, knew or heard. He's alive and has been educating people on 911 for years. Too bad you didn't bother to get his input, but it's understandable since the government ignored him and that's the ONLY source for you.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
So many posts about WTC7 are here, that it is necessary to be more precise. The original thread material is about the twin towers besides the links for supplemental calculations and theory that I posted towards the top of the thread. Later, because O_I and other want to pull the thread off course, they used WTC7 as material to convolute the argument with confusion. This happens all the time. So, please help me with specific references on the bldgs or events as 9/11 is confusing all by itself. Even so..... you are referring to apparent damage with the other buildings. WTC7 was ready to collapse because of its central core beams disjointing and collapsing; it wasn't apparent to the naked eye as fires rampaged throughout the day weakening the trusses beyond their rated load strength.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You're the one who introduced offtopic jabber about Oliver North into the discussion.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, but you got to take into account the Magickal Jet Fuel™, Santa Claus and his drunken sleigh ride, falling out and bouncing off 1 and 2 and hitting 7 and then the Easter Bunny getting mad and throwing an egg at it. Maybe even more than one. All of which makes as much sense as the Official Conspiracy Theory® that buck is fronting.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. What a delusional flockwit you are, to claim that people present at the crashes don't say that airplanes crashed into the buildings and aircraft collision caused their subsequent collapse. Name EYE WITNESSES who SAVED LIVES who don't claim that AIRCRAFT CRASHES caused the Twin Towers to come down.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Look up in the sky! Its a bird! No, its a plane! No, its TWOOFER_MAN™!
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
That's because I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT YOU LYING POS!!!!! Go track down this blatant fucking lie and post it. When you fail to find it,try to be a deceent human being and apologize for your blatent dishonesty. Of course, nobody here actually believes you are the least bit decent, but you could prove that you do have an iota of decency by owning your own lies.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
"[T]here was just an explosion [in the south tower]. It seemed like on television [when] they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions."--Firefighter Richard Banaciski "I saw a flash flash flash [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building?" --Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory "[I]t was [like a] professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'." --Paramedic Daniel Rivera -Quoted by David Ray Griffin in Explosive Testimony: Revelations about the Twin Towers in the 9/11 Oral Histories
There is no long form.
The janitor in the main tower discusses the explosions. We were discussing the EXPLOSIONS........ Nobody was talking about the airplanes crashing into the buildings, other than you in an attempt to divert, distract and blow smoke up Buck's ass and wait naked and giggling like a school girl for him to return the favor. Buck just loves to have your nose deep between his butt cheeks and you love the view. What's next a blow job for Buckie on this thread--you sure are on your knees enough for that to be the next logical progression in your relationship with Buck.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Be clear now .. is it the popularly known North or the South Tower of the WTC?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Yeah, let's be clear. William Rodríguez was a janitor at the North Tower of the World Trade Center during the September 11, 2001 attacks and was in the basement of the North Tower when American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into the building. After the attacks he received several awards for heroism for helping in the evacuation of many survivors. Is that clear enough for you to grasp? Not that you will investigate what this eye witness has to say......but just for the sake of bloviating.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
This thread is about the demolition theory of the WTC. Check my early thread postings and all my later references to include theoretical calculations (provided in links) from non-government personnel AND (I might add) to include hotlinks to the NIST reports for your viewing pleasure. Now, you are talking about my ass? How strange and fanciful......
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Nah, just noting AGAbloviators skill at kissing and blowing smoke up your ass. It's really not much of a compliment......I think he'd drop to his knees on a dime for just about anybody who pays him the least bit of attention. I find it comical to watch your ego expand over a couple of remarks from a two bit whore. Strange and fanciful indeed.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Now, I can reference your material. Thank you. All I need are a few factual data points to reference so I can learn I am not going to clobber you because I may disagree at a later time. I honestly want to learn and I have no axe to grind with you or anyone. I initiated this thread because of the many other threads that have spun off to oblivion for one thing or another. I am hoping we can all learn from each other's opinions without sacrificing our mutual respect on a hottopic.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You obviously have your mind made up with pre-existing opinions. Now you are damning AG who is pilot. I can't argue for AG's opinions anymore than yours. AG doesn't agree with me on many things so it is wrong of you to think or consider or even post the comment you intentionally performed within this venue. For this thread: we are discussing the demolition theory of the WTC. Can you add, subtract or multipy and divide on that same theory without attempting to become emotional or defensive? It will be helpful. And I thank you for serious research.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Prof. Griffin has a similar axe to grind as WorldNutDaily's famous Jerome Corsi has about publick BS. Just because someone flaunts a personal opin because they have a little educational background hardly makes them "experts." I provided a link @post#145 about Griffin's published documented analysis [why didn't anyone else on this thread do that?]. Take a peek and get back to me when you can. Your dialogue about critical thinking is well respected by me.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Not gonna happen. That's not in the training manual at CENTCOM.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
>> Cartoon computer models are only as reliable as the data put in. And they are only as honest as the person running the model. You could make the model sing "The Battle Hymm of The Republic" with the right input parameters. NIST, very unscientifically for a purported investigation, assumes a conclusion and then sets out to validate that conclusion. Their supposed validation has so many flaws, half truths, and outright subterfuge that one cannot escape the conclusion that their modeling DID NOT validate their concluision and so they had to "adjust" the parameters to make the real world fit the model. Both of you are genuinely well read on Griffin's article, of which I reference here: The Mysterious Collapse of WTC7 by David Ray Griffin, yet there are no FACTS other than spinning this charlatan around in a vacuous washtub with old soap. Do you guys have the capability to stand on your own feet and discuss the original article as opposed to hiding behind the wild cover-ups of a cheap, charlatan? Instead of engaging in attacking the man i.e., Argumentum Ad Hominem, perhaps you could specify exact what factual issue you take with the analysis. Otherwise all you post is vacuous drivel which avoids facts and focuses only on unsubstantiated personal attacks. Since you know what you are doing it can only be classified as intentionally dishonest.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
What analysis? There is no argument by Griffin based on any data other than speculation based upon panick during a major tragedy. Griffin is the essential TWOOFER_MAN for this crap.... (at least) I offer your own background to explain where you get this crap... "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The first casualty of war is the truth.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Sure he is. And I'm a Angelina Jolie when I'm not posting here at 4um. The EXPLOSIONS are a direct correlation to the domolition theory, Einstein. Why is this SO difficult for you to grasp? What would be helpful is you're pulling your nose out of AGAbloviator's butt long enough to keep on topic. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Mad Uncle Sugar. He'll leave his bones to bleach in that desert, I'll warrant. It's all the fault of the kind that bloviate crap on this forum, and you know who the hell I'm talking about. I find it abhorrent to draw a breath in the same country as those that propagate old lies. I have nothing to say to them. This country is going the way of Germany of the 1930s, and the innocent will be punished with the guilty.
There is no long form.
But you seem to deny the issue about the downward collapse pushing aire into the lower levels which is a serious fundamental attribute that seems to create "explosions" because of both the over-all pressure pushing glass out the building and associated acoustic characteristics. Remember, sometimes what "appears" is not "reality."
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
lol......I take all that into account when I'm gettin' some sun on the Perfect Pentalawn and also when I'm cruisin' in that "ground effect" in my airplane where I can go 500 miles an hour and not even scratch the lawn one iota even at just a few above the ground.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
How can I forget? I have a constant reminder every single time I read one of your posts. There is very little "reality" in what "appears" to be the government accounting of events on 911. Hence, it is very difficult for me to take your favorite source with more than a grain of salt. When did this "downward collapse" begin ?. You DO realize that people were making their way out of the buildings during this time frame. What I saw wasn't a slow collapse of the towers that went on for two or four hours. When it went, it went fast. Yet, witnesses claim explosions on the sub floors just as or just prior to the planes hitting the buildings. Of course, you like to ignore these eye witness accounts because you and AGAbloviator know FAR more than any person who was actually there.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
"I saw a flash flash flash [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building?" --Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory "[I]t was [like a] professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'." --Paramedic Daniel Rivera -Quoted by David Ray Griffin in Explosive Testimony: Revelations about the Twin Towers in the 9/11 Oral Histories We're going to get to the bottom of this eventually, meaning: start the speedy public trials followed by mass hangnings...and, Coincidently you can bet, around that time - the end of the world as we know it will be on us.
lol. buck, she pwned you on that one. ;)
And THAT is the sad part.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Have you actually read a government report? Not long after the initial jet aircraft strike. Yes, both buildings collapsed separately with different overall longevity. But that is because they were struck differentially and at different levels of the buildings. That isn't a fair assessment at all. The central cores weakened by the impact and into the upper 1/3rd of the support beams and structures, physically rendered the capacity of resisting the mammoth force beyond design criteria.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You lucky debil, you. I don't have one of those lawns or a plane that can go 500 mph yet. But when I get the plane I will see if I can get some seed for that lawn so I won't scuff it up as I ride 20 feet above it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. BLAH! Lets remove that silly term.. as it goes nowhere and I never use it, as it is silly. Now, lets DIG into some nitty-gritty ... any FACTUAL data about demolitions? Speak up, otherwise I OWN those naysayers.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I read the ENTIRE 911 OMISSION report Buck.....you know that one that doesn't even mention WT7 falling into its own foot print. It's boring and mostly bovine excrement--have you read it? Why isn't that a fair assessment? You chime in on what the eye witnesses "really" saw and what they "really" meant and what they "really" think ad nauseum. Oh, yeah that "Magical Jetfuel" that doesn't burn off hot and fast when it hits oxygen worked like a forge.........in open air. Ever tried to get enough heat to bend metal in an open oxygen area? Doesn't work, which is why people use FORGES and it literally takes HOURS to weaken the steal in an oxygen reduced, red hot furnace. Without a forge, the weight load of the building wasn't enough to cut that steal in half and allow the building to fall......especially not in ALL those floors that had no magical jet fuel to speak of.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThe explosions were in the SUB FLOORS.
#155. To: James Deffenbach (#148)
#156. To: buckeroo (#153)
#157. To: buckeroo (#154)
#158. To: abraxas (#156)
Right, you know more than the guy who worked in the building on maintenance for more than a decade.
#159. To: abraxas (#155)
"Years ago, my wife ran off with a State trooper. I thought you were bringing her back..."
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#160. To: abraxas, buckeroo, Original_Intent (#157)
Buildings only fall into their own foot print when critical structural integrity on the foundation is blown out.
#161. To: buckeroo, All (#149)
#162. To: buckeroo (#158)
#163. To: abraxas (#162)
all I know is that building [WTC7] was far less damaged than 3,4,5 and 6 and they didn't fall into their own footprint
#164. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#147)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#165. To: abraxas (#162)
I don't know who did the maintenance in WT7......all I know is that building was far less damaged than 3,4,5 and 6 and they didn't fall into their own footprint
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#166. To: abraxas, buckeroo, turtle (#146)
(Edited)
YOU, nowhere near the buildings (kissing government ass in another state I suspect), claim that YOU know more about these explosions that frickin' EYE WITNESSES and people who WORKED in the buildings and people who SAVED LIVES on that day. YOU and the government can IGNORE them, but that only discredits your official bullshit story more.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#167. To: AGAviator (#166)
Name EYE WITNESSES who SAVED LIVES who don't claim that AIRCRAFT CRASHES caused the Twin Towers to come down.
#168. To: AGAviator (#166)
What a delusional flockwit you are, to claim that people present at the crashes don't say that airplanes crashed into the buildings and aircraft collision caused their subsequent collapse.
#169. To: buckeroo (#167)
#170. To: AGAviator, buckaroo (#166)
#171. To: abraxas (#170)
The janitor in the main tower discusses the explosions.
#172. To: buckeroo (#171)
#173. To: abraxas (#170)
Nobody was talking about the airplanes crashing into the buildings, other than you in an attempt to divert, distract and blow smoke up Buck's ass and wait naked and giggling like a school girl for him to return the favor.
#174. To: buckeroo, AGAbloviator (#173)
Now, you are talking about my ass? How strange and fanciful......
#175. To: abraxas, ALL (#172)
(Edited)
your from your established viewpoint.
#176. To: abraxas, AGAviator (#174)
#177. To: randge, AGAviator (#169)
David Ray Griffin
#178. To: AGAviator, wudidiz, FormerLurker, IRTorqued, Critter, abraxas, all (#168)
...try to be a deceent human being...
#179. To: buckeroo, Kamala (#145)
In addition to providing no validating data for the assumptions on the fireproofing or the angles at which the aircraft hit the building they provide no validation for the number of central column support beams severed, show them as smaller than the perimeter columns (which the were not they were substantially LARGER), and provide no sound justification for the internal temperatures that they allege existed in the core prior to collapse.
#180. To: Original_Intent (#179)
Instead of engaging in attacking the man i.e., Argumentum Ad Hominem, perhaps you could specify exact what factual issue you take with the analysis.
#181. To: Original_Intent (#179)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#182. To: buckeroo (#176)
Now you are damning AG who is pilot.
#183. To: James Deffenbach (#181)
#184. To: abraxas (#182)
The EXPLOSIONS are a direct correlation to the domolition theory, Einstein.
#185. To: James Deffenbach (#165)
#186. To: buckeroo (#184)
Remember, sometimes what "appears" is not "reality."
#187. To: randge (#169)
"[T]here was just an explosion [in the south tower]. It seemed like on television [when] they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions."--Firefighter Richard Banaciski
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#188. To: abraxas, buckeroo (#186)
How can I forget? I have a constant reminder every single time I read one of your posts.
#189. To: randge (#183)
This country is going the way of Germany of the 1930s, and the innocent will be punished with the guilty.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#190. To: abraxas (#186)
There is very little "reality" in what "appears" to be the government accounting of events on 911.
When did this "downward collapse" begin ?
Of course, you like to ignore these eye witness accounts
When it went, it went fast.
#191. To: abraxas (#185)
lol......I take all that into account when I'm gettin' some sun on the Perfect Pentalawn and also when I'm cruisin' in that "ground effect" in my airplane where I can go 500 miles an hour and not even scratch the lawn one iota even at just a few above the ground.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#192. To: christine (#188)
she pwned you
#193. To: buckeroo (#190)
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