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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 25262
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#1. To: All (#0)
Another great supporting work is here: What Did and Did Not Cause Collapse of World Trade Center Twin Towers in New York? By Zdenk P. Bažant, Hon.M.ASCE1; Jia-Liang Le2; Frank R. Greening3; and David B. Benson; it is a bit difficult for some with a minimum of mathematics and physics exposure but if you are serious, it is a link for your reference library.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Two problems: 1. The videos that show the collapse. 2. The reason the collapse was initiated. There is no proof that the aircraft, or fires, are what set it off. As well an explosive demolition would show basically the same signature, and the theory does not explain why one tower took about 14 seconds to collapse and the other identical tower 22-23 seconds. For a theory to be valid it must account for all of the observed phenomena.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
In a nutshell the above illustration provides a visual aid to the FACTUAL issues.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
And? It appears that streams of material are shot out as though a demolition charge occured? Explain the appearance to me. Do you deny the flt 11 and flt 175 did not crash into the upper floors of the buildings?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
'Pull it !' by Larry Silverstein and the WTC 7 singers
Lets get the twin towers out of the way, first..... later we shall review BLDG 7.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
That insane statement ended it for me. A collapse of anything, leaves all sorts of rubble. The towers were reduced to carcinogenic powder and molten steel which smoldered for months. Dr.Seffen is a loon who should be stripped of any accreditation(s) that he's purchased from on-line schools.
Why? Rubble was everywhere and pulverized at that.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Jet fuel doesn't do this: Previously molten metal was found "flowing like lava" by the FDNY in the basements of all 3 WTC High-rises. Hydrocarbon fires can burn at a maximum temperature of 1,800°F which is about 1,000° short of the beginning melting temperature of steel. Where did the molten metal come from? Why do FEMA and NIST deny its existence? The 4- to 20-ton steel columns & beams were broken apart at bolted and welded connections and ejected laterally up to 500 feet. This is the World Trade Center exploding. This is an acknowledged explosion. Can you tell the difference? Two top-down implosions.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Challenged by morons and stooges, who cares?
God is always good!
Fair assumption for idiots, but a damn dumb one for anyone else.
God is always good!
No facts? Just a silly post?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
No facts? Just another silly post?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
lol this is a joke, right?
But Wud......the article says: "The study suggests" It suggests that it all happened as the government claims sort of, not really in a definative manner but surely in a suggestive manner. And, derb nub it, that's good enough for Buck.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Oh, it's just a suggestion? Well, that certainly makes it much more easy to accept.
I'll throw out the Twin Towers and focus on WTC 7, thank you. It's plenty all by itself...
lol.........I just noticed your newly minted tagline too. And, I like my suggestions to be served with a grain of salt.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
But the results of WTC7 were a function of the twin towers earlier collapse. And the trigger mechanism is not the same.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Previously molten metal was found "flowing like lava" by the FDNY in the basements of all 3 WTC High-rises. Hydrocarbon fires can burn at a maximum temperature of 1,800°F which is about 1,000° short of the beginning melting temperature of steel. Where did the molten metal come from? Why do FEMA and NIST deny its existence? The 4- to 20-ton steel columns & beams were broken apart at bolted and welded connections and ejected laterally up to 500 feet. This is the World Trade Center exploding. This is an acknowledged explosion. Can you tell the difference? Bump.
lol........what "function" and what "trigger mechanism" are you referring to Buck?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Thanks buddy.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. In the demolition industry, "pull" a building means "pull down with cables," not "explode with explosives." Silverstein of course, in his phone con with Fire Chief Daniel Nigro, uses "pull" to mean "pull the firefighters back because we've already had a terrible loss of life"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I slip in with a very quick debunk on this one... The insurmountable problem with this explanation of Silverstein’s statement is that there were no firefighters inside WTC 7. Dr. Shyam Sunder, of the National Institutes of Standards and Technology (NIST), which investigated the collapse of WTC 7, is quoted in Popular Mechanics (9/11: Debunking the Myths, March, 2005) as saying: “There was no firefighting in WTC 7”. The FEMA report on the collapses, from May, 2002, also says about the WTC 7 collapse: “no manual firefighting operations were taken by FDNY”. And an article by James Glanz in the New York Times on November 29, 2001 says about WTC 7: “By 11:30 a.m., the fire commander in charge of that area, Assistant Chief Frank Fellini, ordered firefighters away from it for safety reasons.” http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/wtc7/archive/nytimes_112901.html
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Another little debunking of this notion that "pull it" doesn't mean demolish the building: Some defenders of the official 9/11 story say that the term “pull it” is not demolition lingo for “bring it down by controlled demolition”. However, the same PBS video in which Silverstein makes his admission, contains the following exchange: (unidentified construction worker): “Hello? Oh, we’re getting ready to pull building six.” Luis Mendes, NYC Dept of Design and Construction: “We had to be very careful how we demolished building six. We were worried about the building six coming down and then damaging the slurry walls, so we wanted that particular building to fall within a certain area”.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I'll stack a thousand engineers and architects up against your one...
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Sightings of “pools of molten metal” within the rubble pile, purportedly produced by planted thermite- based incendiary devices. But all of the supposed evidence is entirely anecdotal, and is refuted by the facts in the NIST 2005 report. You can read this report by NIST in two separate pdfs: Volume 1 and Volume 2 .....
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Bullshit. When you want to get shredded (again) let me know. I don't need the Twin Towers (or actually even #7) to convince me beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was mass collusion across the government spectrum to pull off this false flag crime against US.
God bless you for spending your precious time engaging serial spinners like AGitprop and bohicAROO...intellectually dishonest posters don't excite me so much anymore, especially when frauds like these have been shown on many occasions to be less than honest, at the very least.
Let's assume you are correct. Beyond circumstantial evidence .... hearsay .... and all those websites that collaborate in a similar way ..... can you provide one insider witness who (or simple testimony) was involved in the planning and execution of the activities in any way?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
There was one relating to building 7. Can't remember his name. Anyway he was disappeared before he could testify. He wasn't involved in the planning but witnessed what happened with building 7.
Name calling is juvenile.
"Keep your eye on that building. It'll be coming down...The structural integrity is not there."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- not to pigs like you Remember Barry Jennings ? Who is Barry Jennings ??
The pools of molten metal within rubble piles were caused by firefighters post crash constantly spraying the debris with water. Putting water onto iron heated above 300-400 degrees creates an exothermic reaction that was widely used in the 1800's.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Er, are you simply going to ignore the EXPLOSIONS heard clearly in your own vids? You know, the kind of explosions that occur in controlled demolition right before the buildings fall down......... Aren't you going to respond to the fact that ol' Larry Silverstein couldn't have meant "pull fire fighters" when there were no fire fighters in the building according to multiple government sources?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
None of them - and I mean NONE of them - want to talk about Barry Jennings. At least zero HERE so far...
Off to bozoland for ya, laddie!
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
lol.........OH NO!!! What ever shall you do? Buck has gone and put you on bozo filter.......oh, the horror of it all! Oh, de humanity!!
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
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#2. To: buckeroo (#0)
#3. To: All (#1)
#4. To: Original_Intent (#2)
1. The videos that show the collapse.
2. The reason the collapse was initiated. There is no proof that the aircraft, or fires, are what set it off. As well an explosive demolition would show basically the same signature, and the theory does not explain why one tower took about 14 seconds to collapse and the other identical tower 22-23 seconds.
#5. To: buckeroo, All (#0)
Who is Barry Jennings ?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#6. To: Rotara (#5)
#7. To: buckeroo, 4 (#0)
The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total.
#8. To: Lod (#7)
That insane statement ended it for me.
A collapse of anything, leaves all sorts of rubble.
#9. To: Original_Intent (#2)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#10. To: buckeroo (#0)
9/11 demolition theory challenged
#11. To: buckeroo (#0)
he University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell".
#12. To: RickyJ (#10)
Challenged by morons and stooges, who cares?
#13. To: RickyJ (#11)
Fair assumption for idiots, but a damn dumb one for anyone else.
#14. To: buckeroo (#0)
#15. To: buckeroo (#0)
#16. To: All (#3)
Crush-up phase
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#17. To: wudidiz, Buckeroo (#16)
#18. To: abraxas (#17)
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#19. To: buckeroo (#6)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#20. To: wudidiz (#18)
#21. To: Rotara (#19)
It's plenty all by itself...
#22. To: James Deffenbach (#9)
Jet fuel doesn't do this:
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#23. To: buckeroo (#21)
But the results of WTC7 were a function of the twin towers earlier collapse. And the trigger mechanism is not the same.
#24. To: wudidiz (#22)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#25. To: Rotara, buckeroo, turtle (#5)
(Edited)
'Pull it !' by Larry Silverstein and the WTC 7 singers
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#26. To: AGAviator (#25)
#27. To: AGAviator (#25)
#28. To: buckeroo (#0)
#29. To: wudidiz, James Deffenbach, Original_Intent, AGAviator (#22)
Jet fuel doesn't do this ....... (etc)
#30. To: buckeroo (#21)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#31. To: abraxas (#23)
lol........what "function" and what "trigger mechanism" are you referring to Buck?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#32. To: Rotara (#30)
I don't need the Twin Towers (or actually even #7) to convince me beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was mass collusion across the government spectrum to pull off this false flag crime against US.
#33. To: buckeroo, Rotara (#32)
..... can you provide one insider witness who (or simple testimony) was involved in the planning and execution of the activities in any way?
#34. To: abraxas, buckeroo, turtle (#26)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#35. To: buckeroo (#32)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#36. To: buckeroo (#29)
Sightings of “pools of molten metal” within the rubble pile, purportedly produced by planted thermite- based incendiary devices
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#37. To: AGAviator (#34)
#38. To: farmfriend (#33)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#39. To: Rotara (#35)
not to pigs like you
#40. To: Rotara (#35)
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