See other 9/11 Articles
Title: The 9/11 conspiracy plots thicken
Source:
Seattle Times
URL Source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht ... /2003250424_911conspire09.html
Published: Sep 09, 2006
Author: Michael Powell, wapo
Post Date: 2010-07-19 22:23:35 by Dakmar
Keywords: None
Views: 16158
Comments: 989
They are politically diverse and include academics, ex-officials and Web surfers. All share a belief that the Bush administration played a role in the 9/11 attacks. Their numbers seem to speak to Americans' innate distrust of their government. The Washington Post NEW YORK — He felt no shiver of doubt in those first terrible hours. He watched the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and assumed al-Qaida had wreaked terrible vengeance. He listened to anchors and military experts and assumed the facts of Sept. 11, 2001, were as stated on the screen. It was a year before David Ray Griffin, an eminent liberal theologian and philosopher, began his stroll down the path of disbelief. He wondered why Bush listened to a child's story while the nation was attacked and how Osama bin Laden, America's Public Enemy No. 1, escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora. He wondered why 110-story towers crashed and military jets failed to intercept even one airliner. He read the 9/11 Commission report with a swell of anger. Contradictions were ignored and no military or civilian official was reprimanded, much less cashiered. "To me, the report read as a cartoon," Griffin said. "It's a much greater stretch to accept the official conspiracy story than to consider the alternatives." Such as? "There was massive complicity in this attack by U.S. government operatives." If that feels like a skip off the cliff of established reality, more Americans are in free fall than you might guess. There are few more startling measures of American distrust of leaders than the extent of belief that the Bush administration had a hand in the attacks of Sept. 11 to spark an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. 36 percent suspicious A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon. Distrust percolates more strongly near Ground Zero. A Zogby International poll of New York City residents two years ago found 49.3 percent believed the government "consciously failed to act." Establishment assessments of the believers tend toward the psychotherapeutic. Many academics, politicians and thinkers left, right and center say the conspiracy theories are a case of one plus one equals five. It's a piling up of improbabilities. Thomas Eager, a professor of materials science at MIT, has studied the collapse of the twin towers. "At first, I thought it was amazing that the buildings would come down in their own footprints," Eager says. "Then I realized that it wasn't that amazing — it's the only way a building that weighs a million tons and is 95 percent air can come down." But the chatter out there is loud enough for the National Institute of Standards and Technology to post a Web "fact sheet" poking holes in the conspiracy theories and defending its report on the towers. Motley crew The loose agglomeration known as the "9/11 Truth Movement" has stopped looking for truth from the government. A cacophonous and free-range a bunch of conspiracists, they produce hip-hop inflected documentaries and scholarly conferences. The Web is their mother lode. Every citizen is a researcher. Did you see that the CIA met with bin Laden in a hospital room in Dubai? Check out this Pakistani site; there are really weird doings in Baluchistan ... Peter Knight, senior lecturer in American studies at the University of Manchester and editor of the 2002 book "Conspiracy Nation: The Politics of Paranoia in Postwar America," called the movement "a strange beast, an amalgam of elements. You've got the anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war crowd — you know, if they lied about the war, maybe they lied about 9/11. Another part is people merely interested in the anomalies, with no preconceived political agenda. "Then you have the more traditional right-wing conspiracy part of the continuum that believes a vast cabal has taken over the United States, the mega-conspiracy of the right's new world order. To them, all of these things are connected. Each group inserts 9/11 into its pre-existing conspiracy model." The academic wing is led by Griffin, who founded the Center for a Postmodern World at Claremont University; James Fetzer, a tenured philosopher at the University of Minnesota; and Daniel Orr, retired chairman of the economics department at the University of Illinois. Professor suspended The movement's de facto minister of engineering is Steven Jones, a tenured physics professor at Brigham Young University who has studied vectors and velocities and tested explosives and concluded that the collapse of the twin towers is best explained as controlled demolition, sped by a thousand pounds of high-grade thermite. Jones has been placed on paid leave while the Mormon-church-owned school investigates his claims, it was announced Friday. The physicist published his views two weeks ago in the book "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out." Former Reagan aide Barbara Honegger is a senior military-affairs journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School in California. She's convinced, based on her freelance research, that a bomb went off about six minutes before an airplane hit the Pentagon — or didn't hit it, as some believe the case may be. Then there's Morgan O. Reynolds, appointed by George W. Bush as chief economist at the Labor Department. He left in 2002 and doesn't think much of his former boss. "Who did it? Elements of our government and M-16 and the Mossad. The government's case is a laugh-out-loud proposition. They used patsies and lies and subterfuge and there's no way that Bush and Cheney could have invaded Iraq without the help of 9/11," Reynolds asserts. They are cantankerous and sometimes distrust each other — who knows where the double agents lurk? But unreasonable questions resonate with the reasonable. Colleen Kelly's brother, a salesman, had breakfast at the Windows on the World restaurant on Sept. 11. After he died she founded September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows to oppose the Iraq war. She lives in the Bronx and gives a gingerly embrace to the conspiracy crowd. "Sometimes I listen to them and I think that's sooooo outlandish and bizarre," she says. "But that day had such disastrous geopolitical consequences. If David Ray Griffin asks uncomfortable questions and points out painful discrepancies, good for him." Griffin's book, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11," sold more than 100,000 copies and became a movement founding stone. Last year he traveled through New England, giving speeches. One evening in West Hartford, Conn., 400 mostly middle-aged and upper-middle-class doctors and lawyers, teachers and social workers sat waiting. Griffin took the podium and laid down his ideas with calm and cool. He concluded: "It is already possible to know beyond a reasonable doubt one very important thing: The destruction of the World Trade Center was an inside job, orchestrated by domestic terrorists. The welfare of our republic and perhaps even the survival of our civilization depend on getting the truth about 9/11 exposed." The audience rose and applauded for more than a minute. No patience Chip Berlet, senior analyst at Political Research Associates, a Boston-based left-leaning think tank, is no fan of the 9/11 Commission. He believes a serious investigation should have led to indictments and the firing of incompetent generals and civilian officials. But he has no patience with the conspiracy theorists. "They don't do their homework; it's a kind of charlatanism," says Berlet. "They say there's no debris on the lawn in front of the Pentagon, but they base their analysis on a photo on the Internet. That's like analyzing an impressionist painting by looking at a postcard. "I love 'The X-Files' but I don't base my research on it. My vision of hell is having to review these [conspiracy] books over and over again." In the days after Sept. 11, experts claimed temperatures reached 2,000 degrees on the upper floors. Others claimed steel melted. Nope. What happened, says Eager, the MIT materials-science professor, is that jet fuel sloshed around and beams got rubbery. "It's not too much to think that you could have some regions at 900 degrees and others at 1,200 degrees, and that will distort the beams." The truth movement doesn't really care for Eager. A Web site casts a fisheye of suspicion at the professor and his colleagues. "Did the MIT have prior knowledge?" notes one chat room. "This is for sure another speculative topic ... " Professsor Jones' suspension was reported Friday by The Associated Press. Peter Knight was quoted by McClatchy Newspapers.
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#517. To: Original_Intent (#513)
He's following many of the standard disinfo tactics. I think something smells a bit fishy in buckie's house...
He failed the simulator training, skipping class most of time, doing poorly while there. Debunked.
Liar. @post 527 you started your drool and groveling for another 400 posts.... "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Nila S is a fly by night commentator who does not have the working email address his blurb claims. I know because I emailed him and got a bounce back. A much better analysis is done by former Air Force Pilot Steve Koeppel of Palm Springs, who explains the 270 degree turn and the reasons for the overshoot of the Pentagon by an inexperienced hijacker.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
On a different and smaller class of aircraft, 737, where he was advised to stop wasting his money as he was so awful. And so that is your counter? LOL! Here's another one for your collection: Eat Me! (I never said I NEVER use vulgarisms just rarely, and only when they serve a purpose other than to merely be vulgar - such as to emphasize the laughability of your post. So, please to stuff your alleged gotcha in the appropriate orofice.)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
What did he ***fail*** and where is your proof? You don't "fail" any instructions until you get tested. You still get to log the hours. Takeoffs? Didn't need to do them anyway. Landings? Didn't need to do them anyway. English? Didn't need it anyway. Couldn't enter the hours spent on simulator into logbook? Wrong. Debunked.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well ok, you've proven me wrong buck. I suppose after asking for a copy of the license for the longest time, and not seeing AG able to come up with it, I simply assumed there WAS no license. That was ONE post, posted in the wee hours of the morning, which I posted AFTER both you and he were launching salvos of vulgarities at anyone who disagreed with you. So yeah, I apparently got a bit pissed off and responded tersely. Now when are YOU going to apologize for acting like a gutter mouthed idiot the majority of that thread?
LOL! That's funny.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Here's one for you, k00k, with your stinking hat on. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post the following information concerning Hanjour's commercial license; 1. The name of the FAA inspector who signed off on his commercial certificate 2. The name of his commericial flight school and instructor(s) 3. Find any information on his multi-engine license or certificate 4. Find any information on his single-engine license You see genius, you can't walk into an FAA office and tell them you want a commericial license, have them say ok, here ya go. You HAVE to FIRST take lessons for a SINGLE-ENGINE PRIVATE license, solo, acquire flight hours, THEN take a test with an FAA examiner, similar to driver's road test, where every aspect of a pilot's abilities are scrutinized, THEN if successful a PRIVATE SINGLE ENGINE license is issued. THEN, in order to fly MULTI-ENGINE planes, you need to take lessons for that and go through a similar process. THEN, a pilot would need to fly a simulator and take lessons for IFR flight, ie. flying with instruments only, and be examined for that, and be issued a IFR certificate. THEN, a pilot would need to log many hours of time IFR, and take lessons for a COMMERCIAL license, THEN be examined by the FAA for that. So go ahead and provide that information concerning his flight training and FAA certifications. "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
What did he ***fail*** and where is your proof? You don't "fail" any instructions until you get tested. You still get to log the hours. Takeoffs? Didn't need to do them anyway. Landings? Didn't need to do them anyway. English? Didn't need it anyway. Couldn't enter the hours spent on simulator into logbook? Wrong. Every Instructor he had who has spoken has said he was incompetent and could barely fly a single engine propeller driven plane - without exception. What schlimiel. So, are you going to endlessly treat us with more of your logic chopping and logical fallacies? Can you roll over too?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Because you threw the demolition thread off track, liar... Another lie! You threw the thread off-track for 400 posts... you GODDAMNED LIAR.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Of course.
Name calling is juvenile.
Well here you are... Al Qaeda’s Top Gun There ya go with your potty mouth again. Trying to get this thread locked too? Your pal is the one who brought up the topic of the hijackers abilities, and also, it IS pertanent to the overall events of the day. Grow up.
So what, I asked for the documentation. It's apparent you have NOTHING to contribute to this thread, you're simply launching personal attacks, hoping you can muddy things up a bit, start a flame fest, and get this thread locked it seems.
Buckeroo and aggravator are knowing individuals. It's just that so much of what they know is incorrect.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. You are a GODDAMNED LIAR excusing yourself... for your earlier LIES ...."well it was the wee hours of the night and a single post" I despise you as a poster... you GODDAMNED LIAR.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You GODDAMNED LIAR... you said Hanjour had no certification or licenses.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
REPORTS simply repeat what his instructors say, in that he showed them a licencse. Ok, well if he had this license, where'd he get the training? Also, which FAA examiner signed off on his license? Where was the exam taken? Your own SHIT went on and on for another 350 posts.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
c'mon, c'mon. c'mon baby now c'mon and work it all out
"The people in power will not disappear voluntarily, giving flowers to the cops just isn't going to work. This thinking is fostered by the establishment; they like nothing better than love and nonviolence. The only way I like to see cops given flowers is in a flower pot from a high window.” - William S Burroughs
BTW crackhead, I STARTED TWO SEPARATE THREADS, one of which was the thread concerning Hanjour's alleged abilities, and invited your pal as well. You did NOT post on that thread to discuss the issues there, instead, you badgered me on the earlier thread, hoping to make your point there. So you are at least partly to blame for that conversation occuring on that thread, along with your pal, who brought up the hijackers' flight skills more than a few times. I also invited the both of you to an article I posted concerning a former employee of CDI who supported the idea that controlled demolition was used, yet you avoided that thread as well. Grow a pair and stop being such a little pansy.
That would seem to be a likely inference. Having long long ago lost the debate in convincing fashion all they have left are the disinfowarrior's bag of tricks, diversions, half truths, ridicule, and attempts to incite a flame war. At this point despite their childish and petulant protestations Bloviator and Buckmonster Fullofit have nothing left with which to counter the logical conclusion that Hani Hanjoor was an incompetent pilot incapable of performing the observed and recorded maneuvers of Flight 77. In fact given his training and educational history it is questionable as to whether he could have even found the autopilot in a 757 let alone engage it. No, they have nothing, know they have nothing, and are now trying to obscure the fact that they have had their heads handed to them repeatedly - a fact apparent to anyone reading back over this thread.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Oooh, are you going to shit all over this thread too?
Of course. But can he roll over, fetch, and is he "paper trained"?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
It's like clockwork, whenever they've reached a point they've been totally defeated, one or both of them will launch the personal attack cannons.
I'm guessing my cat is better trained.
Name calling is juvenile.
c'mon and work it all out Buckie is at his wit's end. Thankfully it was a short trip.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
He failed the simulator training What did he ***fail*** and where is your proof? You don't "fail" any instructions until you get tested. You still get to log the hours. Takeoffs? Didn't need to do them anyway. Landings? Didn't need to do them anyway. English? Didn't need it anyway. Couldn't enter the hours spent on simulator into logbook? Wrong. Every Instructor he had who has spoken has said he was incompetent and could barely fly a single engine propeller driven plane - without exception. What schlimiel. 17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. The subject is whether he "failed" the simulator training. And you say something about instructor scuttlebutt but do not reference any comments on simulator logins. Then commence with the puerile name calling. 18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how "sensitive they are to criticism". Taking us on a tour of how well you live by your own disinformation rules you accuse others of, phony windbag?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- YOU GODDAMNED LIAR >>> UNWILLING TO ADMIT YOUR OWN WEAKNESS TO UNDERSTAND FACTS.. But it is all everyone's elses responsibility to PROVE your lies... you are akin to the most irresponsible poster, worker, shill or any MAGGOT in the Universe. I pray your ass is kicked out of this forum.... YOU GODDAMNED LIAR.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Takeoffs? Didn't need to do them anyway. So you don't need to know how to takeoff to get a private or commercial FAA license, eh? LOL, yeah right. Landings? Didn't need to do them anyway. He effectively went BEYOND landing the plane, he landed it without flaps or wheels down, bringing the plane within 20 feet off the ground, nose level, traveling at 530 mph. English? Didn't need it anyway. He needed it to learn and understand the instruction he was paying to receive, and it was also a FAA requirement for any sort of license, private OR commericial.
#541. To: buckeroo (#535) So yours don't stink, phony hypocrite....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- At this point despite their childish and petulant protestations Bloviator and Buckmonster Fullofit have nothing left with which to counter the logical conclusion that Hani Hanjoor was an incompetent pilot incapable of performing the observed and recorded maneuvers of Flight 77. In fact given his training and educational history it is questionable as to whether he could have even found the autopilot in a 757 let alone engage it. No, they have nothing, know they have nothing, and are now trying to obscure the fact that they have had their heads handed to them repeatedly - a fact apparent to anyone reading back over this thread. You are another POS.. and it isn't apparent... and I don't use terms like "I think" or "probably" perhaps" "another way to look" YOU ARE AN ASSLICKER OF FORMERLURKERS... no question about it. Now, there is no probably, maybe, perhaps, I think, it could be, ... IT IS A FACT... ASSLICKER.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
STFU bozo, and grow the hell up. I admitted that I had said it once, and I have said it over and over again, I DID NOT BELIEVE AN INCOMPETENT PERSON SUCH AS HANJOUR WOULD HAVE LEGITIMATELY HAD ANY SORT OF FAA LICENSE. You STILL haven't proven the "legitimate" part, as Hanjour most obviously was NOT qualified to have been issued either of those licenses.
He did learn it in 1999. He then went to Saudi, tried to get a job with the airlines, was not hired, then began a gradual drift towards jihadi groups without letting his family know. It is possible to let acquired skills lapse when you give up a career goal.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wow buck, you really DO remind me of yukon, focusing on man ass and stuff. It's obvious you're trying to kill the thread, get it locked, and discussion shut down. Funny how you show up right when a lot of facts were being presented, just to stomp your feet like a little girl and demand attention.
Clean up on Aisle 3. I do believe FL is correct and that buckie is trying to get the thread shut down since he and his cohort have been so resoundingly pwned.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
What is it with you toadies and the whole coprophilia thing anyway? For a monolithic inbred parasitic subculture you sure seem to neglect thinking through major PR campaigns. You trying to shock and awe our hearts and minds?
"The people in power will not disappear voluntarily, giving flowers to the cops just isn't going to work. This thinking is fostered by the establishment; they like nothing better than love and nonviolence. The only way I like to see cops given flowers is in a flower pot from a high window.” - William S Burroughs
It is possible to let acquired skills lapse when you give up a career goal. His skills were poor 1996, 1997, 1998, AND 1999. Did you even read the article I posted? It was at this time that, according the 9/11 Commission, Hanjour began his training "in earnest". But in reality, while at CRM, Hanjour never finished coursework required to get his certificate to be able to fly a single-engine aircraft.25 The New York Times reported that "he was a lackadaisical student who often cut class and never displayed the passion so common among budding commercial airline pilots."26 ABC News reported that when he returned to CRM that December, "He was trying for his private pilot’s license", but according to one of his instructor’s, he "was a very poor student who skipped homework and missed flights."27 The school’s attorney said that when Hanjour reapplied again later in 2000, "We declined to provide training to him because we didn’t think he was a good enough student when he was there in 1996 and 1997."28 The school’s owner described him as a "weak student" who "was wasting our resources."29 He said, "One of the first accomplishments of someone in flight school is to fly a plane without an instructor. It is a confidence-building procedure. He managed to do that. That is like being able to pull a car out and drive down the street. It is not driving on the freeway." Although it normally took three months for students to earn their private pilot’s certificate, Hanjour "did not accomplish that at my school." He added, "We didn’t want him back at our school because he was not serious about becoming a good pilot."30 The Chicago Tribune reported that at CRM, "A flight instructor said Hanjour left an impression by being unimpressive. ‘He was making weak progress,’ said Duncan Hastie, president of CRM."31 Hanjour switched schools, and from the end of December 1997 until April 1999, took flight lessons from Arizona Aviation in Mesa, Arizona.24 There, too, the 9/11 Commission’s own evidence contradicts the characterization that Hanjour was training "in earnest". An FBI document cited by the Commission stated that "Hanjour often participated in flying lessons for a one to two weeks [sic] and then would disappear for weeks or months at a time." The school "often had to call Hanjour in an effort to get Hanjour to pay his bill."32 Buried in the footnote for the paragraph suggesting Hanjour began training "in earnest", the 9/11 Commission report acknowledged that "Hanjour initially was nervous if not fearful in flight training" and that "His instructor described him as a terrible pilot."33 FBI documents cited by the Commission reveal that witnesses from the school told investigators that "Hanjour was a terrible pilot. Hanjour had difficulty understanding air traffic control, the methods for determining fuel management and had poor navigational skills." The FBI was told by one witness that "the only flying skill Hanjour could perform was flying the plane straight", and that "he did not believe Hanjour’s poor flying skills were due to a language barrier." He was "a very poor pilot who did not react to criticism very well. Hanjour was very, very nervous inside the cockpit to the point where Hanjour was almost fearful."32
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestWho are those stupid Flight Instructors to say otherwise Buckies Gawd has spoken?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#518. To: AGAviator (#515)
Commercial Pilot Type Certification can be done on simulators. Hanjour had access to, and did log hours, on simulators.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#519. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#506)
Find the post where I stated he didn't have a license. I said I didn't THINK he did since he certainly wasn't qualified to have one, so stop putting words into my mouth I never said, then accusing me of being a liar such as yourself.
To: AGAviator: It doesn't exist, bullshit artist. There is no record of what school he took lessons from in terms of either a commericial or private pilot's license.
And then you continued the monotony for ANOTHER 400 posts, BS artist.
#520. To: FormerLurker, budkeroo, turtle (#514)
The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#521. To: FormerLurker (#506)
Find the post where I stated he didn't have a license.
Post #544: To AGAviator: Again, find his records indicating he ever took lessons and ever held a private license. Find the names of his prior flight schools.
Liar!
#522. To: AGAviator (#515)
Commercial Pilot Type Certification can be done on simulators. Hanjour had access to, and did log hours, on simulators.
Debunked again.
(My comment): Go blow smoke up someone elses ass.
FLUSSSSSSSSSSSH "Violating your own self-propagandized rules again, phony windbag."
#523. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#518)
He failed the simulator training
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#524. To: buckeroo, AGAviator (#519)
To: AGAviator: It doesn't exist, bullshit artist. There is no record of what school he took lessons from in terms of either a commericial or private pilot's license.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#525. To: Dakmar (#493)
Yeah, you just have to adjust the little wingy-dealies! It's a lot lot the time I had to grab the keys from my friend Bill and drive the '68 4-4-2 through downtown Kokomo; except that there were street signs and were didn't have to fight off hundreds of passengers with a utility knife. Things might have turned out differently, otherwise.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#526. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo (#522)
Here's another one for your collection: Eat Me!
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#527. To: FormerLurker (#506)
Find the post where I stated he didn't have a license.
Post #553: To AGAviator: So I'm supposed to believe YOU, the forum liar, rather than the news reports that reported the facts concerning Hanjour's background, eh?
#528. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, wudidiz, critter, HOUNDDAWG, farmfriend, christine, all (#523)
He failed the simulator training
#529. To: FormerLurker (#524)
Well ok, you've proven me wrong buck.
That was ONE post
#530. To: Original_Intent (#528)
So, are you going to endlessly treat us with more of your logic chopping and logical fallacies?
#531. To: AGAviator, buckeroo, turtle, Original_Intent (#523)
What did he ***fail*** and where is your proof?
Turning to the footnote for the claim that Hanjour "completed" training at Jet Tech, one can read (emphasis added): "For his training at Pan Am International Flight Academy and completion by March 2001, see FBI report ‘Hijackers Timeline,’ Dec. 5, 2003 (Feb. 8, 2001, entries...)". But turning to that source, the FBI timeline does not state that Hanjour "completed" the training, only that he "ended" the course on March 16.47 The truth is that, as the Washington Post reported, "Hanjour flunked out after a month" at Jet Tech.12 Offering corroboration for that account, the Associated Press similarly reported that "Hanjour did not finish his studies at JetTech and left the school."48
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#532. To: buckeroo (#529)
You threw the thread off-track for 400 posts...you GODDAMNED LIAR.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#533. To: buckeroo (#527)
So go ahead and provide that information concerning his flight training and FAA certifications.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#534. To: Original_Intent (#513)
Even worse he knows he lost the debate a while back - say 200 posts, or better, ago.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#535. To: FormerLurker (#532)
There ya go with your potty mouth again.
#536. To: FormerLurker (#533)
So what, I asked for the documentation.
#537. To: FormerLurker (#524)
That was ONE post, posted in the wee hours of the morning
Post #569: To AVAviator: Find his commericial AND private training records, shillster.
#538. To: buckeroo (#536)
#539. To: buckeroo (#529)
Because you threw the demolition thread off track, liar...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#540. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator, buckeroo, christine, James Deffenbach, Dakmar, IRTorqued, Eric Stratton, all (#533)
It's apparent you have NOTHING to contribute to this thread, you're simply launching personal attacks, hoping you can muddy things up a bit, start a flame fest, and get this thread locked it seems.
#541. To: buckeroo (#535)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#542. To: farmfriend (#530)
So, are you going to endlessly treat us with more of your logic chopping and logical fallacies?
#543. To: Original_Intent (#540)
No, they have nothing, know they have nothing, and are now trying to obscure the fact that they have had their heads handed to them repeatedly - a fact apparent to anyone reading back over this thread.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#544. To: Original_Intent (#542)
But can he roll over, fetch, and is he "paper trained"?
#545. To: Dakmar, buckeroo, Buckmonster Fullofit, all (#538)
c'mon, c'mon. c'mon baby now
#546. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo (#528)
(Edited)
So, are you going to endlessly treat us with more of your logic chopping and logical fallacies?
Can you roll over too?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#547. To: FormerLurker (#541)
Oooh, are you going to shit all over this thread too?
#548. To: AGAviator (#523)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#549. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#543)
One or both of them will launch the personal attack cannons.
Oooh, are you going to shit all over this thread too?
FormerLurker posted on 2010-07-26 22:08:08 ET
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#550. To: Original_Intent (#540)
That would seem to be a likely inference. Having long long ago lost the debate in convincing fashion all they have left are the disinfowarrior's bag of tricks, diversions, half truths, ridicule, and attempts to incite a flame war.
#551. To: AGAviator (#546)
#552. To: buckeroo, ALL (#547)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#553. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#548)
He needed it to learn and understand the instruction he was paying to receive, and it was also a FAA requirement for any sort of license, private OR commericial.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#554. To: buckeroo (#550)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#555. To: christine, buckeroo, all (#550)
#556. To: buckeroo (#550)
ASSLICKER
#557. To: AGAviator (#553)
He did learn it in 1999. He then went to Saudi, tried to get a job with the airlines, was not hired, then began a gradual drift towards jihadi groups without letting his family know.
Hanjour made plans to return to the U.S. and was issued a third visa in Jeddah in November 1997. His visa application contained red flags that should have resulted in his visa being denied. He failed to write in the name and address of the school he would be attending and provided no proof, as required by law, that he could furnish financial support for himself.23 With that application accepted, he reentered the U.S. and took pilot training from CRM again in December.24
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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