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Title: The 9/11 conspiracy plots thicken
Source:
Seattle Times
URL Source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht ... /2003250424_911conspire09.html
Published: Sep 09, 2006
Author: Michael Powell, wapo
Post Date: 2010-07-19 22:23:35 by Dakmar
Keywords: None
Views: 17252
Comments: 989
They are politically diverse and include academics, ex-officials and Web surfers. All share a belief that the Bush administration played a role in the 9/11 attacks. Their numbers seem to speak to Americans' innate distrust of their government. The Washington Post NEW YORK — He felt no shiver of doubt in those first terrible hours. He watched the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and assumed al-Qaida had wreaked terrible vengeance. He listened to anchors and military experts and assumed the facts of Sept. 11, 2001, were as stated on the screen. It was a year before David Ray Griffin, an eminent liberal theologian and philosopher, began his stroll down the path of disbelief. He wondered why Bush listened to a child's story while the nation was attacked and how Osama bin Laden, America's Public Enemy No. 1, escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora. He wondered why 110-story towers crashed and military jets failed to intercept even one airliner. He read the 9/11 Commission report with a swell of anger. Contradictions were ignored and no military or civilian official was reprimanded, much less cashiered. "To me, the report read as a cartoon," Griffin said. "It's a much greater stretch to accept the official conspiracy story than to consider the alternatives." Such as? "There was massive complicity in this attack by U.S. government operatives." If that feels like a skip off the cliff of established reality, more Americans are in free fall than you might guess. There are few more startling measures of American distrust of leaders than the extent of belief that the Bush administration had a hand in the attacks of Sept. 11 to spark an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. 36 percent suspicious A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon. Distrust percolates more strongly near Ground Zero. A Zogby International poll of New York City residents two years ago found 49.3 percent believed the government "consciously failed to act." Establishment assessments of the believers tend toward the psychotherapeutic. Many academics, politicians and thinkers left, right and center say the conspiracy theories are a case of one plus one equals five. It's a piling up of improbabilities. Thomas Eager, a professor of materials science at MIT, has studied the collapse of the twin towers. "At first, I thought it was amazing that the buildings would come down in their own footprints," Eager says. "Then I realized that it wasn't that amazing — it's the only way a building that weighs a million tons and is 95 percent air can come down." But the chatter out there is loud enough for the National Institute of Standards and Technology to post a Web "fact sheet" poking holes in the conspiracy theories and defending its report on the towers. Motley crew The loose agglomeration known as the "9/11 Truth Movement" has stopped looking for truth from the government. A cacophonous and free-range a bunch of conspiracists, they produce hip-hop inflected documentaries and scholarly conferences. The Web is their mother lode. Every citizen is a researcher. Did you see that the CIA met with bin Laden in a hospital room in Dubai? Check out this Pakistani site; there are really weird doings in Baluchistan ... Peter Knight, senior lecturer in American studies at the University of Manchester and editor of the 2002 book "Conspiracy Nation: The Politics of Paranoia in Postwar America," called the movement "a strange beast, an amalgam of elements. You've got the anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war crowd — you know, if they lied about the war, maybe they lied about 9/11. Another part is people merely interested in the anomalies, with no preconceived political agenda. "Then you have the more traditional right-wing conspiracy part of the continuum that believes a vast cabal has taken over the United States, the mega-conspiracy of the right's new world order. To them, all of these things are connected. Each group inserts 9/11 into its pre-existing conspiracy model." The academic wing is led by Griffin, who founded the Center for a Postmodern World at Claremont University; James Fetzer, a tenured philosopher at the University of Minnesota; and Daniel Orr, retired chairman of the economics department at the University of Illinois. Professor suspended The movement's de facto minister of engineering is Steven Jones, a tenured physics professor at Brigham Young University who has studied vectors and velocities and tested explosives and concluded that the collapse of the twin towers is best explained as controlled demolition, sped by a thousand pounds of high-grade thermite. Jones has been placed on paid leave while the Mormon-church-owned school investigates his claims, it was announced Friday. The physicist published his views two weeks ago in the book "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out." Former Reagan aide Barbara Honegger is a senior military-affairs journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School in California. She's convinced, based on her freelance research, that a bomb went off about six minutes before an airplane hit the Pentagon — or didn't hit it, as some believe the case may be. Then there's Morgan O. Reynolds, appointed by George W. Bush as chief economist at the Labor Department. He left in 2002 and doesn't think much of his former boss. "Who did it? Elements of our government and M-16 and the Mossad. The government's case is a laugh-out-loud proposition. They used patsies and lies and subterfuge and there's no way that Bush and Cheney could have invaded Iraq without the help of 9/11," Reynolds asserts. They are cantankerous and sometimes distrust each other — who knows where the double agents lurk? But unreasonable questions resonate with the reasonable. Colleen Kelly's brother, a salesman, had breakfast at the Windows on the World restaurant on Sept. 11. After he died she founded September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows to oppose the Iraq war. She lives in the Bronx and gives a gingerly embrace to the conspiracy crowd. "Sometimes I listen to them and I think that's sooooo outlandish and bizarre," she says. "But that day had such disastrous geopolitical consequences. If David Ray Griffin asks uncomfortable questions and points out painful discrepancies, good for him." Griffin's book, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11," sold more than 100,000 copies and became a movement founding stone. Last year he traveled through New England, giving speeches. One evening in West Hartford, Conn., 400 mostly middle-aged and upper-middle-class doctors and lawyers, teachers and social workers sat waiting. Griffin took the podium and laid down his ideas with calm and cool. He concluded: "It is already possible to know beyond a reasonable doubt one very important thing: The destruction of the World Trade Center was an inside job, orchestrated by domestic terrorists. The welfare of our republic and perhaps even the survival of our civilization depend on getting the truth about 9/11 exposed." The audience rose and applauded for more than a minute. No patience Chip Berlet, senior analyst at Political Research Associates, a Boston-based left-leaning think tank, is no fan of the 9/11 Commission. He believes a serious investigation should have led to indictments and the firing of incompetent generals and civilian officials. But he has no patience with the conspiracy theorists. "They don't do their homework; it's a kind of charlatanism," says Berlet. "They say there's no debris on the lawn in front of the Pentagon, but they base their analysis on a photo on the Internet. That's like analyzing an impressionist painting by looking at a postcard. "I love 'The X-Files' but I don't base my research on it. My vision of hell is having to review these [conspiracy] books over and over again." In the days after Sept. 11, experts claimed temperatures reached 2,000 degrees on the upper floors. Others claimed steel melted. Nope. What happened, says Eager, the MIT materials-science professor, is that jet fuel sloshed around and beams got rubbery. "It's not too much to think that you could have some regions at 900 degrees and others at 1,200 degrees, and that will distort the beams." The truth movement doesn't really care for Eager. A Web site casts a fisheye of suspicion at the professor and his colleagues. "Did the MIT have prior knowledge?" notes one chat room. "This is for sure another speculative topic ... " Professsor Jones' suspension was reported Friday by The Associated Press. Peter Knight was quoted by McClatchy Newspapers.
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#596. To: All (#595)
Was
An
Inside
Job
600
Thhhhhhhhhhhppppppppp!!!!!!!!!!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Gotta get up earlier in the morning than that if you want to beat ole wudidiz to 600...
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Great post. And many of us, not just O_I and FormerLurker, doubted the legitimacy of Hanjour/Hanjoor's "license." All the instructors who have made public statements said he COULD NOT FLY. So that must mean that someone, somewhere sold him a ticket.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Don't you be laughing, it will bring a tear to his eye.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Isn't it funny how, when buck and aggravator get tied to the tree of woe that they start in with the bs and scatological stuff to try to get the thread locked? But they might as well get used to being tied to that tree of woe when they keep posting bs from government tales. That stuff they post should start "Once upon a time."
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. And vice versa I am sure. LOL indeed.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. One of the stray thoughts that occurs to me is that this video release, a very short clip, is just the kind of thing that could be created in a super computer by "Industrial Light and Magic" or their government equivalent. I'm not saying it was mind you - just a stray speculation. That YouTube video was just to show what a big passenger plane would look like if the Official Story about it wasn't a drive- in movie of "smokey and the bandits".
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
There most certainly wouldn't have been thousands, never mind "tens of thousands". A small group of 12 or so would have been at the planning level, and perhaps 50 others in various levels of government, and perhaps another 50 as far as "contract" players. Those in government would have to be at the highest levels in order to order top secret compartmentalized operations, where the people involved in those aspects more than likely had no idea what their work would be applied to.
Virtually ANYONE could have decreased power on the jet and dove DOWN into the Pentagon roof, being that it has an area of 22 football fields. If it were actually an "inexperienced hijacker" flying the plane, that is what he would have done, not the precision manuevers which resulted in lining up a 71 foot tall target while traveling at over 400 mph at treetop level, then descending to 20 feet off the ground the last split second, keeping the nose level, and impacting the 71 foot tall target.
those videos can not show baalzabush and company stated events if they did AGovshill and bucky would be harping about said video with much links and cutting and pasting. instead they avoid the topic of those videos like the plague.
There were no precision maneuvers. A 1/2 G turn, wings wobbling on final approach, and missing the original target by 270 to 330 degrees do not qualify as "precision" by any definition.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- so where is the video showing hanjour clearly on that plane and all the video that should have caught that plane hitting the pentagon?
A small group of 12 or so would have been at the planning level, and perhaps 50 others in various levels of government, and perhaps another 50 as far as "contract" players. Those in government would have to be at the highest levels in order to order top secret compartmentalized operations, where the people involved in those aspects more than likely had no idea what their work would be applied to. Well, well .... well. Now we have some "FACTS" and "evidence" to go on. Obviously you are a witness to the events ... can you name some names for us and while you are at it... times, dates and any documented instructions?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
It is in paradise under the 78 virgin bodies that Hanjour is laying on top of.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Got it. LOL!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You are durn tootin' right on that. It is like the subject of those 32 Pentagon videos from surrounding cameras have cooties or something. The shills want nothing to do with the topic, and yes if they did confirm the "Official Fairy Tale™" they would have been trumpeted, headlined, cut and pasted ad nauseam, and the shills would have an orgasm every time they posted one.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
It is in paradise under the 78 virgin bodies that Hanjour is laying on top of. In other words you want to avoid the subject of the 32 videos from cameras surrounding the Pentagram that the FBI collected ALL on the afternoon of 9111 (Gee it's almost like they had it planned out and knew exactly where to go.) and which have been kept buried under layers of "do not dare watch this" prohibitions NOW 9 YEARS AFTER THE EVENT.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
And "massaged and twittered" as the idiot judge said about Obama's eligibility to be president (not that he had any proof of it, he just thought it sounded good).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I guess I can photoshop some "airplane" clips with Hanjour sitting next to Otto. Will that work for you?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
show the various videos that would have caught that 757 hitting the pentagon and I'm not talking about those five or so blurry frames your liar movement likes to prance around with. while you're at it maybe you can get your handlers to dig you up some footage of hanjour boarding FLT77.
It is in paradise under the 78 virgin bodies that Hanjour is laying on top of. Ta-ha!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A 1/2 G turn, wings wobbling on final approach, and missing the original target by 270 to 330 degrees do not qualify as "precision" by any definition. You need to be a serious wacko to make that claim. Besides the fact air traffic controllers assumed it was a military plane by the way it manuevered, the plane flew at tree top level for a mile at over 400 mph, and descended to 20 feet and leveled off just prior to hitting the Pentagon wall, a 71 foot tall target. All that to avoid Rumsfeld's office, which the plane was already lined up with, and could have easily slowed down and dove into. The only thing wobbling is your mind.
Gee willikers. When you get good photo evidence, you say it's faked and made up in a state of the art studio "they" run everything out of. When you don't get good photo evidence, you say there's no proof, which then gives you license to flog your k00ktheories - which also don't have any photo evidence to support them. So if "they" are so good at special effects, why didn't "they" provide you your good photo evidence of the crash so you can then say it's fake? BWAHAHAAHHA!!!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- typical noting based on facts from the ole buckyroo.
They did not say that, you are bull$hitting once again. The explicit statement of the controllers, including ATC Danielle O'Brien, on a video I have repeatedly posted, they say "You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe." Not that it was not a 757. But they did not expect 757's to be flown in the manner they saw the 757 shown. The full in context quote, not your half-a$$ed, Half Truth cherry pick, is on 0:44 to 1:11 of the following video, Debunked. Again.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- there were how many other videos confiscated that day that remain under lock and key, why is that AGovshill? the fact is those videos do not support the liar movement. and of hanjour boarding FLT77 still a big goose egg for you?
Where's your videos, Half Tw00fer? Where's any of your independently verifiable evidence, not just internet rants?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There were no precision maneuvers. A 1/2 G turn, wings wobbling on final approach, and missing the original target by 270 to 330 degrees do not qualify as "precision" by any definition. As usual you are serially dishonest, misrepresenting and mischaraterizing the observed events. From Al-Qaeda's Top Gun A pilot with a major carrier for over 30 years told CNN that "the hijackers must have been extremely knowledgeable and capable aviators."8 An air traffic controller from Dulles International Airport told ABC News, "The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane. You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe."9 CBS News suggested that according to its sources, Flight 77, "flying at more than 400 mph, was too fast and too high when it neared the Pentagon at 9:35. The hijacker-pilots were then forced to execute a difficult high-speed descending turn. Radar shows Flight 77 did a downward spiral, turning almost a complete circle and dropping the last 7,000 feet in two-and-a- half minutes. The steep turn was so smooth, the sources say, it’s clear there was no fight for control going on. And the complex maneuver suggests the hijackers had better flying skills than many investigators first believed. The jetliner disappeared from radar at 9:37 and less than a minute later it clipped the tops of street lights and plowed into the Pentagon at 460 mph."10 The Washington Post similarly noted that the plane "was flown with extraordinary skill, making it highly likely that a trained pilot was at the helm." Hanjour was so skilled, in fact, that "just as the plane seemed to be on a suicide mission into the White House, the unidentified pilot" – later identified as Hanjour – "executed a pivot so tight it reminded observers of a fighter jet maneuver."11 The Post reported in another article that "After the attacks ... aviation experts concluded that the final maneuvers of American Airlines Flight 77 – a tight turn followed by a steep, accurate descent into the Pentagon – was the work of ‘a great talent ... virtually a textbook turn and landing.’"12 According to the report of the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) cited by the 9/11 Commission, information from the flight data recorder recovered from the Pentagon crash site and radar data from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) show that the autopilot was disengaged "as the aircraft leveled near 7000 feet. Slight course changes were initiated, during which variations in altitude between 6800 and 8000 feet were noted. At 9:34 AM, the aircraft was positioned about 3.5 miles west-southwest of the Pentagon, and started a right 330-degree descending turn to the right. At the end of the turn, the aircraft was at about 2000 feet altitude and 4 miles southwest of the Pentagon. Over the next 30 seconds, power was increased to near maximum and the nose was pitched down in response to control column movements. The airplane accelerated to approximately 460 knots (530 miles per hour) at impact with the Pentagon. The time of impact was 9:37:45 AM."13 The NTSB created a computer simulation of the flight from the flight data recorder information showing that the plane was actually at more than 8,100 feet and doing about 330 mph when it began its banking turn at 9:34 am. 14 At that point, the alleged pilot Hanjour could have simply decreased thrust, nosed down, and guided the plane into what would have been 29 acres, or 1,263,240 square feet of target area – the equivalent of about 22 football fields.15 From this angle, proverbially speaking, it would have been like trying to hit the side of a barn. Hanjour could have guided the plane into the enormous roof of the building, including the side of the building where the office of the Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, was located, and where he happened to be that morning.16 Instead, the plane began a steep banking descent, circling downward in a 330- degree turn while dropping more than 5,600 feet in three minutes before re- aligning with the Pentagon and increasing to maximum thrust towards the building. The nose was kept down despite the increased lift from the acceleration, while flying so close to the ground that it clipped lamp posts along the interstate highway before plowing into the building at more than 530 mph, precisely hitting a target only 71 feet high, or just 26.5 feet taller than the Boeing 757 itself.17 In other words, by performing this maneuver, Hanjour reduced his vertical target area from a size comparable to the height of the Empire State Building to an area just 5 stories high. Instead of descending at an angle and plowing through the roof and floors of the building to cause the greatest possible number of casualties, including possibly taking out the Secretary of Defense, Hanjour hit wedge 1 of the Pentagon, opposite to Rumsfeld’s office, which happened to be under construction, and where the plane, travelling horizontally, had to penetrate through the steel- and kevlar-reinforced outer wall of the building’s southwest E-ring in addition to the numerous additional walls of the inner rings of the building.18
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
A 1/2 G turn, wings wobbling on final approach, and missing the original target by 270 to 330 degrees do not qualify as "precision" by any definition. You need to be a serious wacko to make that claim. Besides the fact air traffic controllers assumed it was a military plane by the way it manuevered, the plane flew at tree top level for a mile at over 400 mph, and descended to 20 feet and leveled off just prior to hitting the Pentagon wall, a 71 foot tall target. All that to avoid Rumsfeld's office, which the plane was already lined up with, and could have easily slowed down and dove into. The only thing wobbling is your mind. He must be smoking another one of those "fatties" while he tunes the Trucks on his Skateboard.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Are you aware of the fact that no arabs were on Flight 77? Autopsy: No Arabs on Flight 77 So perhaps that "paradise" you're talking about is the same one some of his other pals are living in... Revealed: the men with stolen identities [Telegraph] Hijack 'suspects' alive and well [BBC] The FBI still says these are the terrorists.14 But when they are found alive, Remember that suspicious bin Laden "confession" video? order Mohamed Atta and the Venice Flying Circus, the real story of the Hijackers http://www.azstarnet.com/attack/10928TERRORISTMUGGRAPHIC.html http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/27/inv.suspects/ http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_suspects.html http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml? xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm Some of those involved in the plot left suicide notes, but they are not believed to have been the hijackers, a government source told The Associated Press. It was unclear whether those who left the notes actually killed themselves. order Mohamed Atta and the Venice Flying Circus, the real story of the Hijackers Bin Laden's "smoking gun" video names living, uninvolved people? This makes no sense! Jarrah and the other three men named by the FBI as hijackers...initially came to be on the list of 19 because they "have been identified as having 'Arabic' names http://web.archive.org/web/20010925123748/boston.com/dailyglobe2/268/nation/Hija ck_suspect_lived_a_life_or_a_lie%2B.shtml How was he in Brooklyn and Lebanon at the same time? ..two days before the hijacking, his nephew called and told the family he'd be coming home for a cousin's wedding in mid-September. "He said he had even bought a new suit for the occasion." http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/01/cia.hijacker/index.html A CIA spokesman vigorously denied that the CIA knew anything about Jarrah before September 11 or had anything do with his questioning in Dubai. In interviews over the past two weeks, a number of intelligence officials have raised questions about Osama bin Laden's capabilities. "This guy sits in a cave in Afghanistan and he's running this operation?" one C.I.A. official asked. "It's so huge. He couldn't have done it alone." A senior military officer told me that because of the visas and other documentation needed to infiltrate team members into the United States, a major foreign intelligence service might also have been involved. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14365-2001Sep11.html And "massaged and twittered" as the idiot judge said about Obama's eligibility to be president (not that he had any proof of it, he just thought it sounded good). That is mostly what the shills have phrases in a talking points briefing book that they cut and paste so that "it sounds good". The problem they run into is that they are almost bright and come unglued when faced with someone who dissects their spin for the misleading disinformation bullshit it is.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Why won't the government shills answer the questions about all the videos that were taken up, some of which were stolen from private owners? Not all the video taken that day was on government cameras, yet they seized every scrap they could get their hands on. And, as has been so well stated, if those videos actually backed up their fairy tale they would have been showing them nonstop starting that same day.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. All that and still no other pentagon videos released.
We were thinking the same thing.
You are intentionally misrepresenting their full in context statement, you are bull$hitting once again. The explicit statement of the controllers, including ATC Danielle O'Brien, on a video I have repeatedly posted, they say "You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe." Not that it was not a 757. But they did not expect 757's to be flown in the manner they saw the 757 shown. The full in context quote, not your half-a$$ed, Half Truth cherry pick, is on 0:44 to 1:25 of the following video, Debunked. Again. Oh yeah. How did Danielle O'Brien pick a 757 in her quote if the plane was not in fact a 757? Why didn't she say it was a 767 or a 737 or a 747? Hmmm? Wack- job ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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#597. To: All (#596)
#598. To: All (#597)
#599. To: All (#598)
#600. To: All (#599)
#601. To: wudidiz (#600)
#602. To: Original_Intent (#601)
(Edited)
#603. To: wudidiz (#602)
#604. To: GreyLmist, Original_Intent, FormerLurker (#574)
But, like lots of guv-issued things, the pieces are often mismatched -- like some plane parts "found" at the WTC -- and some of the data looks deliberately planted or wrong and so on. The fact is that the Official belief system about 9/11 is lethal. Thousands and thousands of people have been dying and suffering all the years since; and so it must be questioned and investigated by us skeptics, you see, regardless of scorn or how comfortable your side is with what you've been told and believe you've seen or heard as convincing to you.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#605. To: abraxas (#580)
It seems that your valiant efforts to debunk have once again transpired into an epic failure, so you throw a little tirade in an attempt to get it locked down so you can start another thread and whine that this thread was "stellar"...lol
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#606. To: abraxas (#580)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#607. To: abraxas (#592)
No, AG is the wind between your butt cheeks Buck.......lol
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#608. To: Original_Intent (#443)
(Edited)
#443. To: GreyLmist (#438)
#609. To: AGAviator, GreyLmist (#585)
Unlike all the tens of thousands of other 911 conspirators not one of whom has ever come forward.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#610. To: AGAviator, ALL (#520)
A much better analysis is done by former Air Force Pilot Steve Koeppel of Palm Springs, who explains the 270 degree turn and the reasons for the overshoot of the Pentagon by an inexperienced hijacker.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#611. To: Original_Intent (#450)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#612. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#610)
If it were actually an "inexperienced hijacker" flying the plane, that is what he would have done, not the precision manuevers which resulted in lining up a 71 foot tall target while traveling at over 400 mph at treetop level, then descending to 20 feet off the ground the last split second, keeping the nose level, and impacting the 71 foot tall target.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#613. To: buckeroo (#460)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#614. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#609)
There most certainly wouldn't have been thousands, never mind "tens of thousands".
#615. To: IRTorqued (#613)
so where is the video showing hanjour clearly on that plane
#616. To: GreyLmist (#608)
That YouTube video was just to show what a big passenger plane would look like if the Official Story about it wasn't a drive- in movie of "smokey and the bandits".
#617. To: IRTorqued (#611)
those videos can not show baalzabush and company stated events if they did AGovshill and bucky would be harping about said video with much links and cutting and pasting. instead they avoid the topic of those videos like the plague.
#618. To: buckeroo, IRTorqued, FormerLurker, abraxas, all (#615)
so where is the video showing hanjour clearly on that plane
#619. To: Original_Intent (#617)
they would have been trumpeted, headlined, cut and pasted
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#620. To: Original_Intent (#618)
In other words you want to avoid the subject of the 32 videos from cameras surrounding the Pentagram that the FBI collected ALL on the afternoon of 911
#621. To: AGAviator, wudidiz, RickyJ, GreyLmist, FormerLurker, James Deffenbach, Rotara, abraxas, Original_Intent (#565)
Show me your proof of the Mother of All Conspiracies Bean Counters being so intractible they had to be executed en masse to keep them from going off reservation, Half_Truther_Change_the_Subject?
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#622. To: buckeroo (#615)
so where is the video showing hanjour clearly on that plane
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#623. To: AGAviator (#612)
There were no precision maneuvers.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#624. To: IRTorqued, buckeroo (#621)
five or so blurry frames
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#625. To: buckeroo (#615)
It is in paradise under the 78 virgin bodies that Hanjour is laying on top of.
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#626. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#623)
(Edited)
Besides the fact air traffic controllers assumed it was a military plane by the way it manuevered
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#627. To: AGAviator, wudidiz, RickyJ, GreyLmist, FormerLurker, James Deffenbach, Rotara, abraxas, Original_Intent (#624)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#628. To: IRTorqued, buckeroo (#627)
other videos confiscated that day that remain under lock and key
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#629. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, wudidiz, critter, HOUNDDAWG, farmfriend, christine, all (#612)
If it were actually an "inexperienced hijacker" flying the plane, that is what he would have done, not the precision manuevers which resulted in lining up a 71 foot tall target while traveling at over 400 mph at treetop level, then descending to 20 feet off the ground the last split second, keeping the nose level, and impacting the 71 foot tall target.
#630. To: FormerLurker, AGBloviator, AGAviator, all (#623)
There were no precision maneuvers.
#631. To: buckeroo, AGAviator, IRTorqued, Original_Intent, GreyLmist, abraxas, Rotara, RickyJ (#615)
It is in paradise under the 78 virgin bodies that Hanjour is laying on top of.
Tracking the 19 Hijackers
A former high-level intelligence official told me, "Whatever trail was left
What are they up to now?
At least 9 of them survived 9/11
was left deliberately--for the F.B.I. to chase." New Yorker 10/1/01 by Seymour Hersh
American Airlines #11 Boeing 767
7:45 a.m. Departed Boston for Los Angeles
8:45 a.m. Crashed into North Tower of World Trade Center
Satam Suqami
Used Firearm
Waleed Alshehri
Still Alive3
Wail Alshehri
Still alive10
BL Video12
Mohamed Atta
Still Alive9
U.S. Military1
Abdulaziz Alomari
Still Alive4
U.S. Military1
American Airlines #77 - Boeing 757
8:10 a.m. Departed Dulles for Los Angeles
9:39 a.m. Crashed into Pentagon
Khalid Almihdhar
Still Alive2
Lived w/FBI20
Majed Moqed
Nawaf Alhazmi
Lived w/FBI20
Salem Alhazmi
Still Alive6
BL Video12
Hani Hanjour
Lacked alleged
flying ability19
United Airlines #175 - Boeing 767
7:58 a.m. Departed Boston for Los Angeles
9:05 a.m. Crashed into South Tower of World Trade Center
Marwan Al-Shehhi
Still Alive11
Alleged Pilot
Fayez Rashid
Ahmed Alghamdi
U.S. Military1
Hamza Alghamdi
Fabrications18
U.S. Military1
Mohand Alshehri
United Airlines #93 - Boeing 757
8:42 a.m. Departed Newark for San Francisco
10:03 a.m. Crashed in Stony Creek Township
Saeed Alghamdi
Still Alive5
U.S. Military1
Ahmad Haznawi
Ahmed Alnami
Still Alive7
U.S. Military1
Ziad Samir Jarrah
Fabrications16
Alleged Pilot
the FBI says their identity was stolen, and its not the terrorist.15
Not by flight calls, which contradict the FBI13 information!
as the original "suicide hijackers" came forward!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/specials/attacked/A38270- 2001Sep15.html1
Washington Post - 9/16/01 - 2nd Witness Arrested; 25 Held for Questioning
Two of 19 suspects named by the FBI, Saeed Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi, have the same names as men listed at a housing facility for foreign military trainees at Pensacola. Two others, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alnami, have names similar to individuals listed in public records as using the same address inside the base. In addition, a man named Saeed Alghamdi graduated from the Defense Language Institute at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, while men with the same names as two other hijackers, Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari, appear as graduates of the U.S. International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala., and the Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, respectively.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm2
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
And there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar, may also be alive.
Online Service of the Arizona Daily Star - 9/28/01 - Hijack suspect profiles
"An FBI notice to banks on Sept. 19 raised the possibility that Almihdhar might still be alive without speculating or explaining how that could be possible. "
CNN - 9/28/01 - Details of hijacking suspects released
Khalid Almihdhar: there are reports he is still alive
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm3
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well. Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September. Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=944384
'Suicide hijacker' is an airline pilot alive and well in Jeddah - 9/17/01
A man named by the US Department of Justice as a suicide hijacker of American Airlines flight 11 the first airliner to smash into the World Trade Centre is very much alive and living in Jeddah. Abdulrahman al-Omari, a pilot with Saudi Airlines, was astonished to find himself accused of hijacking as well as being dead and has visited the US consulate in Jeddah to demand an explanation.
ABC - Who Did It? FBI Links Names to Terror Attacks
"The name [listed by the FBI] is my name and the birth date is the same as mine, but I am not the one who bombed the World Trade Center in New York," Abdulaziz Alomari told the London-based Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper.
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
Mr Al-Omari, who was accused of hijacking the American Airlines plane that smashed into the the World Trade Centre's north tower, said that he was at his desk at the Saudi telecommunications authority in Riyadh when the attacks took place.
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Abdulaziz Al Omari, another of the Flight 11 hijack suspects, has also been quoted in Arab news reports. He says he is an engineer with Saudi Telecoms, and that he lost his passport while studying in Denver.
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml? xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml5
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
The Saudi Airlines pilot, Saeed Al-Ghamdi, 25, and Abdulaziz Al-Omari, an engineer from Riyadh, are furious that the hijackers' "personal details" - including name, place, date of birth and occupation - matched their own.
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Meanwhile, Asharq Al Awsat newspaper, a London-based Arabic daily, says it has interviewed Saeed Alghamdi. He was listed by the FBI as a hijacker in the United flight that crashed in Pennsylvania.
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml? xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml6
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
Mr Al-Hamzi is 26 and had just returned to work at a petrochemical complex in the industrial eastern city of Yanbou after a holiday in Saudi Arabia when the hijackers struck. He was accused of hijacking the American Airlines Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon. He said: "I have never been to the United States and have not been out of Saudi Arabia in the past two years." The FBI described him as 21 and said that his possible residences were Fort Lee or Wayne, both in New Jersey.
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml? xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml7
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
Mr Al-Nami, 33, from Riyadh, an administrative supervisor with Saudi Arabian Airlines, said that he was in Riyadh when the terrorists struck. He said: "I'm still alive, as you can see. I was shocked to see my name mentioned by the American Justice Department. I had never even heard of Pennsylvania where the plane I was supposed to have hijacked."
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/13/investigation.terrorism/index.html8
CNN - FBI: Early probe results show 18 hijackers took part 9/13/01
Based on information from multiple law enforcement sources, CNN reported that Adnan Bukhari and Ameer Bukhari of Vero Beach Florida, were suspected to be two of the pilots who crashed planes into the World Trade Center. CNN later learned that Adnan Bukhari is still in Florida, where he was questioned by the FBI. We are sorry for the misinformation. A federal law enforcement source now tells CNN that Bukhari passed an FBI polygraph and is not considered a suspect. Through his attorney, Bukhari says that he is helping authorities. Ameer Bukhari died in a small plane crash last year.
Cairo Times - 9/27/019
He also claimed that his son had called him two days after the attack, and described it as "a normal conversation." But he snarled when asked to give further details. Asked what country Muhammad had called from, he said, "The name of the country isn't written on the phone." Asked where Muhammad was now, he said, "Ask Mossad."
Video shows Atta was not suicidal, as he pays bills and returns rentals.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-092101probe.story10
Los Angeles Times - 9/21/01
A man by the same name is a pilot, whose father is a Saudi diplomat in Bombay. "I personally talked to both father and son today," said Gaafar Allagany, head of the Saudi Embassy's information center.
Saudi Gazette 9/18/01 and The Khaleej Times 9/20/0111
Marwan al-Shehhi is still alive in Morocco
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/12/20/attack/main322092.shtml12
CBS - Bin Laden Names Hijackers On Tape Dec. 20, 2001
He would identify only three: Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi and Wail Alshehri. Alshehri was on American Airlines flight 11, one of the planes that hit the Twin Towers at the World Trade Center in New York; Alhamzi and Alhamzi were on American Airlines flight 77, which hit the Pentagon.
This is just the beginning, this "confession" video is full of abnormalities.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1556096.stm13
BBC- The last moments of Flight 11
The FBI has named five hijackers on board Flight 11, whereas Ms Sweeney spotted only four. Also, the seat numbers she gave were different from those registered in the hijackers' names.
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/092701hjpic.htm14
U.S. Department of Justice
Federal Bueau of Investigation - Hijackers
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1553754.stm15
BBC - FBI probes hijackers' identities 9/21/01
It believes that some of the hijackers used false identities, possibly even names of people who are still alive, which could significantly complicate the manhunt.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sns-worldtrade-jarrah- lat.story16
Los Angeles Times - 10/23/01 - Friends of terror suspect say allegations make no sense
By Carol J. Williams Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
...Ziad and Salim ... left Lebanon together April 4, 1996, at the age of 20, heading to the eastern German town of Greifswald in pursuit of both an education and a good time.
Boston Globe - Hijack suspect lived a life, or a lie - 9/25/01
Although a Brooklyn apartment lease from 1995-1996 bears Ziad Jarrah's name - and landlords there have identified his photograph - his family insists he was in Beirut at the time.
CNN 8/1/02 - September 11 hijacker questioned in January 2001
The CIA suspected Ziad Jarrah had been in Afghanistan and wanted him questioned because of "his suspected involvement in terrorist activities," UAE sources said.
The New Yorker - What Went Wrong17
by Seymour Hersh - 10/1/01
Many of the investigators believe that some of the initial clues that were uncovered about the terrorists' identities and preparations, such as flight manuals, were meant to be found. A former high-level intelligence official told me, "Whatever trail was left was left deliberately--for the F.B.I. to chase."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19549-2001Sep24.html18
Washington Post - 9/25/01 - Some Light Shed On Saudi Suspects - A12
Still, the father of Alghamdi told Al Watan that the picture provided by the FBI was not that of his son. "It has no resemblance to him at all," he said.
http://www.newsday.com/ny-usflight232380680sep23.story19
Tracing Trail Of Hijackers - By Thomas Frank - 9/23/01
At Freeway Airport in Bowie, Md., 20 miles west of Washington, flight instructor Sheri Baxter instantly recognized the name of alleged hijacker Hani Hanjour when the FBI released a list of 19 suspects in the four hijackings. Hanjour, the only suspect on Flight 77 the FBI listed as a pilot, had come to the airport one month earlier seeking to rent a small plane.... However, when Baxter and fellow instructor Ben Conner took....Hanjour on three test runs during the second week of August, they found he had trouble controlling and landing the single-engine Cessna 172. .....chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard declined to rent him a plane without more lessons.
Washington Post - On Flight 77: 'Our Plane Is Being Hijacked' - 9/12/01 - Page A01
...the unidentified pilot executed a pivot so tight that it reminded observers of a fighter jet maneuver. The plane circled 270 degrees to the right to approach the Pentagon from the west, whereupon Flight 77 fell below radar level, vanishing from controllers' screens, the sources said.... Aviation sources said the plane was flown with extraordinary skill, making it highly likely that a trained pilot was at the helm... Someone even knew how to turn off the transponder, a move that is considerably less than obvious.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/09/attack/main521223.shtml20
CBS - Hijackers Lived With FBI Informant - Sept. 9, 2002
Two of the Sept. 11 hijackers who lived in San Diego in 2000 rented a room from a man who reportedly worked as an undercover FBI informant....the FBI informant prayed with them and even helped one open a bank account.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#632. To: James Deffenbach (#619)
they would have been trumpeted, headlined, cut and pasted
#633. To: IRTorqued (#627)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#634. To: Original_Intent, FormerLurker, AGAviator, all (#631)
#635. To: James Deffenbach (#634)
#636. To: O_Ink, buckeroo (#629)
(Edited)
An air traffic controller from Dulles International Airport told ABC News, "The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane. You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe."9
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
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