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Title: The 9/11 conspiracy plots thicken
Source:
Seattle Times
URL Source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht ... /2003250424_911conspire09.html
Published: Sep 09, 2006
Author: Michael Powell, wapo
Post Date: 2010-07-19 22:23:35 by Dakmar
Keywords: None
Views: 20128
Comments: 989
They are politically diverse and include academics, ex-officials and Web surfers. All share a belief that the Bush administration played a role in the 9/11 attacks. Their numbers seem to speak to Americans' innate distrust of their government. The Washington Post NEW YORK — He felt no shiver of doubt in those first terrible hours. He watched the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and assumed al-Qaida had wreaked terrible vengeance. He listened to anchors and military experts and assumed the facts of Sept. 11, 2001, were as stated on the screen. It was a year before David Ray Griffin, an eminent liberal theologian and philosopher, began his stroll down the path of disbelief. He wondered why Bush listened to a child's story while the nation was attacked and how Osama bin Laden, America's Public Enemy No. 1, escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora. He wondered why 110-story towers crashed and military jets failed to intercept even one airliner. He read the 9/11 Commission report with a swell of anger. Contradictions were ignored and no military or civilian official was reprimanded, much less cashiered. "To me, the report read as a cartoon," Griffin said. "It's a much greater stretch to accept the official conspiracy story than to consider the alternatives." Such as? "There was massive complicity in this attack by U.S. government operatives." If that feels like a skip off the cliff of established reality, more Americans are in free fall than you might guess. There are few more startling measures of American distrust of leaders than the extent of belief that the Bush administration had a hand in the attacks of Sept. 11 to spark an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. 36 percent suspicious A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon. Distrust percolates more strongly near Ground Zero. A Zogby International poll of New York City residents two years ago found 49.3 percent believed the government "consciously failed to act." Establishment assessments of the believers tend toward the psychotherapeutic. Many academics, politicians and thinkers left, right and center say the conspiracy theories are a case of one plus one equals five. It's a piling up of improbabilities. Thomas Eager, a professor of materials science at MIT, has studied the collapse of the twin towers. "At first, I thought it was amazing that the buildings would come down in their own footprints," Eager says. "Then I realized that it wasn't that amazing — it's the only way a building that weighs a million tons and is 95 percent air can come down." But the chatter out there is loud enough for the National Institute of Standards and Technology to post a Web "fact sheet" poking holes in the conspiracy theories and defending its report on the towers. Motley crew The loose agglomeration known as the "9/11 Truth Movement" has stopped looking for truth from the government. A cacophonous and free-range a bunch of conspiracists, they produce hip-hop inflected documentaries and scholarly conferences. The Web is their mother lode. Every citizen is a researcher. Did you see that the CIA met with bin Laden in a hospital room in Dubai? Check out this Pakistani site; there are really weird doings in Baluchistan ... Peter Knight, senior lecturer in American studies at the University of Manchester and editor of the 2002 book "Conspiracy Nation: The Politics of Paranoia in Postwar America," called the movement "a strange beast, an amalgam of elements. You've got the anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war crowd — you know, if they lied about the war, maybe they lied about 9/11. Another part is people merely interested in the anomalies, with no preconceived political agenda. "Then you have the more traditional right-wing conspiracy part of the continuum that believes a vast cabal has taken over the United States, the mega-conspiracy of the right's new world order. To them, all of these things are connected. Each group inserts 9/11 into its pre-existing conspiracy model." The academic wing is led by Griffin, who founded the Center for a Postmodern World at Claremont University; James Fetzer, a tenured philosopher at the University of Minnesota; and Daniel Orr, retired chairman of the economics department at the University of Illinois. Professor suspended The movement's de facto minister of engineering is Steven Jones, a tenured physics professor at Brigham Young University who has studied vectors and velocities and tested explosives and concluded that the collapse of the twin towers is best explained as controlled demolition, sped by a thousand pounds of high-grade thermite. Jones has been placed on paid leave while the Mormon-church-owned school investigates his claims, it was announced Friday. The physicist published his views two weeks ago in the book "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out." Former Reagan aide Barbara Honegger is a senior military-affairs journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School in California. She's convinced, based on her freelance research, that a bomb went off about six minutes before an airplane hit the Pentagon — or didn't hit it, as some believe the case may be. Then there's Morgan O. Reynolds, appointed by George W. Bush as chief economist at the Labor Department. He left in 2002 and doesn't think much of his former boss. "Who did it? Elements of our government and M-16 and the Mossad. The government's case is a laugh-out-loud proposition. They used patsies and lies and subterfuge and there's no way that Bush and Cheney could have invaded Iraq without the help of 9/11," Reynolds asserts. They are cantankerous and sometimes distrust each other — who knows where the double agents lurk? But unreasonable questions resonate with the reasonable. Colleen Kelly's brother, a salesman, had breakfast at the Windows on the World restaurant on Sept. 11. After he died she founded September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows to oppose the Iraq war. She lives in the Bronx and gives a gingerly embrace to the conspiracy crowd. "Sometimes I listen to them and I think that's sooooo outlandish and bizarre," she says. "But that day had such disastrous geopolitical consequences. If David Ray Griffin asks uncomfortable questions and points out painful discrepancies, good for him." Griffin's book, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11," sold more than 100,000 copies and became a movement founding stone. Last year he traveled through New England, giving speeches. One evening in West Hartford, Conn., 400 mostly middle-aged and upper-middle-class doctors and lawyers, teachers and social workers sat waiting. Griffin took the podium and laid down his ideas with calm and cool. He concluded: "It is already possible to know beyond a reasonable doubt one very important thing: The destruction of the World Trade Center was an inside job, orchestrated by domestic terrorists. The welfare of our republic and perhaps even the survival of our civilization depend on getting the truth about 9/11 exposed." The audience rose and applauded for more than a minute. No patience Chip Berlet, senior analyst at Political Research Associates, a Boston-based left-leaning think tank, is no fan of the 9/11 Commission. He believes a serious investigation should have led to indictments and the firing of incompetent generals and civilian officials. But he has no patience with the conspiracy theorists. "They don't do their homework; it's a kind of charlatanism," says Berlet. "They say there's no debris on the lawn in front of the Pentagon, but they base their analysis on a photo on the Internet. That's like analyzing an impressionist painting by looking at a postcard. "I love 'The X-Files' but I don't base my research on it. My vision of hell is having to review these [conspiracy] books over and over again." In the days after Sept. 11, experts claimed temperatures reached 2,000 degrees on the upper floors. Others claimed steel melted. Nope. What happened, says Eager, the MIT materials-science professor, is that jet fuel sloshed around and beams got rubbery. "It's not too much to think that you could have some regions at 900 degrees and others at 1,200 degrees, and that will distort the beams." The truth movement doesn't really care for Eager. A Web site casts a fisheye of suspicion at the professor and his colleagues. "Did the MIT have prior knowledge?" notes one chat room. "This is for sure another speculative topic ... " Professsor Jones' suspension was reported Friday by The Associated Press. Peter Knight was quoted by McClatchy Newspapers.
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#723. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#717)
(Edited)
"Is said to" Additional panel instruments that may not be found in smaller aircraft include: Course Deviation Indicator Radio Magnetic Indicator Busted again. You really have to stop wasting my time with your reflexive ritualistic challenges that have no basis of your own to support them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***Questions.*** So what conclusions does he express, and how does he explain away the AA 757 aircraft debris.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now show where the FLIGHT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM is located on a Cessna 172. You know, the one that controls various aspects of flight on a commericial airliner, such as NAVIGATION.
Irrelevant. If the hole is too small, and there is no jet fuel where the left wing should have impacted, nor physical damage to glass windows in that location, then it WAS NOT a 757.
You should watch it.
You really have to stop wasting my time with your reflexive ritualistic challenges that have no basis of your own to support them. Still waiting for you to explain to me the location of the Flight Management System on a Cessna 172.
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Gee, that sure looks a lot like this 757 Cockpit doesn't it: "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
After 45 minutes from the impact, the structure in and around the direct impact collapsed..... hmmm.... sounds strangely familiar, doesn't it? You know, fire and structures weakened by a tremendous jet mass in a near horizontal collision.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
WOW! LOOK at 0:43 seconds into the video, there are individuals wearing some form of official (FBI?) jackets getting off a bus, carrying FULL CANVAS BAGS TOWARDS THE PENTAGON!!!!!! Initial reports of NO debris were correct apparently, and it is obvious from the video there is NO FIRE ANYWHERE on the EXTERNAL WALLS of the PENTAGON. No jet fuel was sprayed at all apparently, where a 757's wings would have sprayed fuel ALL over the walls and more than likely part of the roof.
Not just that, but there IS no Flight Management System on a Cessna 172, yet it is required in order to actually navigate the 757. On private jets, a FMS might look like something below, which is VASTLY different than what a single engine plane would have in terms of flight instruments. You don't need a ***Flight Management System*** to navigate by using a VORTAC/DME. Go look it up, I'm getting tired of you wasting my time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now where on the 757 is the VORTAC/DME? Answer: It's on the FLIGHT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, isn't it?
Wrong. You punch in the frequency of the VORTAC station you are interested in, and you will see on your ***CDI*** which is on the instrument cluster, on most small planes as well as the large ones, heading, distance, and course deviation. If you do not have a CDI on your instrument cluster, you will have a difficult time getting permission to fly in any controlled airspace subject to directions from the FAA or the airport.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No. It may be connected to the FMS on planes that have an FMS, but exists independently of the FMS and does not need an FMS to be installed to work.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I doubt that would work on a 757, since it appears ALL navigation is controlled through the FMS. Post a link that explains how to utilize the information given by a VORTAC station on a 757. Explain how the hijacker could have determined his current position, and plotted a course to bring him to Washington, then engage autopilot. Wait, autopilot was ON the entire duration of the flight, except upon final approach to Washington. A Boeing 757 would at minimum need to utilize the FMS to engage autopilot. From Boeing 757- 200 Background The 757-200 flight deck, designed for two-crew member operation, pioneered the use of digital electronics and advanced displays. Those offer increased reliability and advanced features compared to older electro- mechanical instruments. A fully integrated flight management computer system (FMCS) provides for automatic guidance and control of the 757-200 from immediately after takeoff to final approach and landing. Linking together digital processors controlling navigation, guidance and engine thrust, the flight management system assures that the aircraft flies the most efficient route and flight profile for reduced fuel consumption, flight time and crew workload. The precision of global positioning satellite (GPS) system navigation, automated air traffic control functions, and advanced guidance and communications features are now available as part of the new Future Air Navigation System (FANS) flight management computer. The captain and the first officer each have a pair of electronic displays for primary flight instrumentation. The electronic attitude director indicator displays airplane attitude and autopilot guidance cues. The electronic horizontal situation indicator displays a video map of navigation aids, airports, and the planned airplane route and can display a weather-radar image over these ground features. The engine indicating and crew alerting system, often called EICAS, monitors and displays engine performance and airplane system status before takeoff. It also provides caution and warning alerts to the flight crew if necessary. EICAS monitoring also aids ground crews by providing maintenance information. The 757-200 is available with a wind shear detection system that alerts flight crews and provides flight-path guidance to cope with it. Wind shear, caused by a violent down-burst of air that changes speed and direction as it strikes the ground, can interfere with a normal takeoff and landing. Flight decks of the 757 and 767 are nearly identical and both aircraft have a common type-rating. Pilots qualified to fly one of the aircraft also can fly the other with only minimal additional familiarization. Built-in test equipment helps ground crews troubleshoot avionics and airplane systems quickly for easier maintenance than on earlier aircraft. Structural maintenance needs are reduced, owing to new methods of corrosion protection including application of special sealants and enameling of major portions of the fuselage. Explain how auto pilot can be engaged without the FMS on a 757.
BTW, what do you think of those guys with full bags of something, getting off the bus, walking towards the Pentagon after the attack? You know, the ones at 0:43 in this video...
Sorry, forgot to ping you to the above post. I wonder how long it'll take AGAviator to find some "explanation"...
Uh huh. LOL! It looks like aggravator/blowviator and buck would get tired of getting their butts kicked from one thread to the next all day every day.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Good video, I have seen it before but it doesn't hurt to see it again. The Pentagon lawn was just about perfect in front of the Pentagon. Any plane crashing there would have torn the lawn up. I am thinking now the earlier bombs that went off before the alleged flight 77 got there, were only a few small bombs, just enough to get people cleared out of that area before the majority of the bombs went off which could not be kept under wraps as easily if there were any people still there that happened to survive.
God is always good!
You know what is really phunney? I was thinking the same thing about FL and O_I and the 4um pseudo-comedian chat club, of which you are obviously fully integrated within. AG has kicked both FL and O_I's ass.... time after time after time.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
In your deluded mind. Tell me buck, how does one instruct the Flight Management Computer on a 757 to change course, and how would you enter a new destination for the autopilot to follow...
Already giving yourself an out, I see. You are wrong, and given your history of untrue accusations based purely on conjecture and unwillingness to face facts, I won't do research for you. If you actually want the truth, and aren't just trying to obfuscate, contact VORTAC/DME manufacturers of and put your 757/FMS questions to them directly. As a general rule, you can presume that nearly all items in any aircraft system can be disconnected manually.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You keep moving the goalposts after being debunked one untenable charge after another. Contact the VORTAC or FMS systems makers and put your questions to them. For once you have an opportunity to do some original research.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I get it now, he's a freakln' out of work comedian!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. It looks like aggravator/blowviator and buck would get tired of getting their butts kicked from one thread to the next all day every day. AG has kicked both FL and O_I's ass.... time after time after time One of these furballs actually posted that a vertical strike from the roof that digs a great big hole in the ground, would have been preferential to a horizontal attack that expends all its energy knocking down building supports, and destroying offices till the plane grinds to a stop, deep within the building. No, I did not make this up. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FL is trying ... struggling, actually .... to keep up with his own expertise.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Good job, what it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. They don't understand the difference between a pile of ragheads armed with boxcutters hijacking a passenger jet airline and a GPS guided cruise missle armed with a warhead of various types. They are silly, at best. This is another thread, that just keeps me laffing .... sometimes I can't stop ... and the belly aching is all too much.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Contact the VORTAC or FMS systems makers and put your questions to them. The VORTAC is simply a navigational aid, which indicates the aircraft's bearing in terms of magnetic north and the VOR station. But that's irrelevant since the autopilot is what navigated the aircraft, thus the Flight Management Computer HAD to have been instructed to plot a new course. So the process of navigating the plane from Ohio to Washington is a bit more difficult than you claim, not in terms of navigational expertise, but in terms of knowing how to work the Flight Management Computer. The 757 FMS is NOT the same as that on a 737 simulator, on which he allegedly "trained". Besides, he was described as a poor student who frequently skipped class and who ended up flunking out. Being the FMS menus and such are in English, which he was extremely poor at, he probably couldn't learn how to operate it on a 737, never mind on a totally different system as that found in a 757 cockpit.
If you're keeping score, I believe it was FL saying that a vertical attack through the roof that digs a big hole in the ground is preferable to a horizontal one through the walls. That's a good example for a case study of reflexive unthinking denials....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In your deluded mind. Tell me buck, how does one instruct the Flight Management Computer on a 757 to change course, and how would you enter a new destination for the autopilot to follow... buck seems to have been imbibing a particularly strong batch of Sterno and KOOK AID. I tried to tell him before I had to send him to bozoland that that $#it was gonna kill him but he didn't pay any attention. And see what's happened? His mind, what little he had, is plumb gone.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Not if it's turned off.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey Einstein, a JUMBO JET carrying approximately 10,000 gallons of JET FUEL crashing into the roof of the Pentagon would do a bit more damage than hitting a steel/kevlar reinforced brick wall. Oh wait, that was MAGICKAL FUEL, since it simply VANISHED when the plane hit the side of the building.
The NTSB stated that the autopilot was on the entire flight, except for a slight course correction between Ohio and Washington, then it was reengaged till it neared Washington DC.
And what are the relative values of more than a gigajoule of kinetic energy in a horizontal attack, vs. the thermal content of 10,000 gallons of jet fuel, Einstein wannabe?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For one, some of them are still alive, so I doubt they're the ones who hijacked the planes and flew them into buildings as alleged. For two, besides the fact the alleged hijacker who took over Flight 77 and allegedly flew it, Hani Hanjour, was a totally inept "pilot" who his instructors stated "couldn't fly at all", the fact is there was NO JET FUEL FIRE on the exterior walls of the Pentagon, thus indicating there WAS NO 757 which hit it.
How many gigajoules of energy were spent tearing the plane into tiny bits, as opposed to how much damage would have occured if the entire roof of the Pentagon had been set ablaze?
Dig, dig, dig. So now you (1) Believe the NTSB, and (2) Concede that Hanjour knew enough to turn the autopilot off and on which demonstrates he likely could operate it if he needed to - which he didn't, (3) Have still not demonstrated that you can't simply navigate by punching the VORTAC/DME frequency into that instrument directly, regardless of what the FMS is doing. You're on a roooollllll!!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh and what are the odds of hitting a structure the size of 22 football fields from an angled dive, as opposed to hitting a 71 foot tall target flying at 530 mph?
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestBeing the fact the fuselage is said to have been at an altitude of 20 feet
Most aircraft built since about 1953 have four of the flight instruments located in a standardized pattern called the T arrangement. The attitude indicator is in the top center, airspeed to the left, altimeter to the right and heading indicator under the attitude indicator. The other two, turn-coordinator and vertical-speed, are usually found under the airspeed and altimeter, but are given more latitude in placement. The magnetic compass will be above the instrument panel, often on the windscreen centerpost. In newer aircraft with glass cockpit instruments the layout of the displays conform to the basic T arrangement.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#724. To: wudidiz, buckeroo (#720)
Maj. Gen. Albert Stubblebine Questions Flight 77
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#725. To: AGAviator (#723)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#726. To: AGAviator, wudidiz (#724)
So what conclusions does he express, and how does he explain away the AA 757 aircraft debris.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#727. To: AGAviator (#724)
So what conclusions does he express, and how does he explain away the AA 757 aircraft debris.
#728. To: AGAviator, wudidiz, Original_Intent, James Deffenbach, abraxas, christine, ALL (#723)
Busted again.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#729. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator, Original_Intent, James Deffenbach, abraxas, christine, ALL (#728)
#730. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, wudidiz, critter, HOUNDDAWG, farmfriend, christine, all (#723)
#731. To: wudidiz (#729)
#732. To: wudidiz, AGAviator, Original_Intent, James Deffenbach, abraxas, christine, ALL (#729)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#733. To: Original_Intent (#730)
Gee, that sure looks a lot like this 757 Cockpit doesn't it:
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#734. To: FormerLurker (#725)
Now show where the FLIGHT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#735. To: AGAviator (#734)
You don't need a ***Flight Management System*** to navigate by using a VORTAC/DME.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#736. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#733)
yet it is required in order to actually navigate the 757
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#737. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#735)
Answer: It's on the FLIGHT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, isn't it?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#738. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, ALL (#736)
(Edited)
You punch in the frequency of the VORTAC station you are interested in, and you will see on your ***CDI*** which is on the instrument cluster, on most small planes as well as the large ones, heading, distance, and course deviation.
Flight Deck
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#739. To: AGAviator (#737)
It may be connected to the FMS on planes that have an FMS, but exists independently of the FMS and does not need an FMS to be installed to work.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#740. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, James Deffenbach, abraxas, christine, IRTorqued, RickyJ, ALL (#737)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#741. To: wudidiz (#740)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#742. To: FormerLurker (#698)
So instead of PLANNING the easiest and most effective approach, he PLANNED to use the most difficult and INEFFECTIVE way he could find, because he liked a challenge?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#743. To: FormerLurker (#741)
(Edited)
#744. To: James Deffenbach, AGAviator (#742)
It looks like aggravator/blowviator and buck would get tired of getting their butts kicked from one thread to the next all day every day.
#745. To: buckeroo, James Deffenbach, AGAviator (#744)
(Edited)
AG has kicked both FL and O_I's ass.... time after time after time.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#746. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#738)
I doubt that would work on a 757
It appears ALL navigation is controlled through the FMS. Post a link that explains how to utilize the information given by a VORTAC station on a 757.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#747. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#745)
ell me buck, how does one instruct the Flight Management Computer on a 757 to change course, and how to enter a new destination for the autopilot to follow...
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#748. To: Original_Intent (#704)
So, let me, ha, ha, ha, see if I get this right. Because he was able to miss the easy target this incompetent suddenly becomes a, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Jet Ace able to fly a Jumbo Jet at tree top height at 400+ mph and then with micrometer like touches to the controls wobble to 20 feet off the ground, leaving 2.5 feet between the engine cowlings and the ground, simultaneously accelerating to 530 mph and run a Jet Aircraft, while he had NEVER in his entire life flown anything larger than a 4 seater, propeller driven Piper Apache, into a 71 foot high wall which was only 26.5 feet higher than the plane. You actually want living sentient beings to believe this? C'mon admit it - you're smokin' another "fattie".
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#749. To: buckeroo (#744)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#750. To: AGAviator (#747)
You [FL] keep moving the goalposts after being debunked one untenable charge after another.
#751. To: wudidiz (#729)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#752. To: AGAviator (#749)
One of these furballs actually posted that a vertical strike from the roof that digs a great big hole in the ground, would have been preferential to a horizontal attack that expends all its energy knocking down building supports, and destroying offices till the plane grinds to a stop, deep within the building.
#753. To: AGAviator, ALL (#747)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#754. To: buckeroo (#750)
FL is trying ... struggling, actually .... to keep up with his own expertise.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#755. To: FormerLurker (#745)
AG has kicked both FL and O_I's ass.... time after time after time.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#756. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#753)
But that's irrelevant since the autopilot is what navigated the aircraft
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#757. To: AGAviator, ALL (#749)
One of these furballs actually posted that a vertical strike from the roof that digs a great big hole in the ground, would have been preferential to a horizontal attack that expends all its energy knocking down building supports
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#758. To: AGAviator (#756)
Not if it's turned off.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#759. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#757)
Hey Einstein, a JUMBO JET carrying approximately 10,000 gallons of JET FUEL crashing into the roof of the Pentagon would do a bit more damage than hitting a steel/kevlar reinforced brick wall.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#760. To: buckeroo (#752)
They don't understand the difference between a pile of ragheads armed with boxcutters hijacking a passenger jet airline
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#761. To: AGAviator (#759)
And what are the relative values of more than a gigajoule of kinetic energy in a horizontal attack, vs. the thermal content of 10,000 gallons of jet fuel, Einstein wannabe?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#762. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#758)
The NTSB stated that the autopilot was on the entire flight, except for a slight course correction between Ohio and Washington, then it was reengaged till it neared Washington DC.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#763. To: AGAviator (#759)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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