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Title: The 9/11 conspiracy plots thicken
Source:
Seattle Times
URL Source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht ... /2003250424_911conspire09.html
Published: Sep 09, 2006
Author: Michael Powell, wapo
Post Date: 2010-07-19 22:23:35 by Dakmar
Keywords: None
Views: 19613
Comments: 989
They are politically diverse and include academics, ex-officials and Web surfers. All share a belief that the Bush administration played a role in the 9/11 attacks. Their numbers seem to speak to Americans' innate distrust of their government. The Washington Post NEW YORK — He felt no shiver of doubt in those first terrible hours. He watched the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and assumed al-Qaida had wreaked terrible vengeance. He listened to anchors and military experts and assumed the facts of Sept. 11, 2001, were as stated on the screen. It was a year before David Ray Griffin, an eminent liberal theologian and philosopher, began his stroll down the path of disbelief. He wondered why Bush listened to a child's story while the nation was attacked and how Osama bin Laden, America's Public Enemy No. 1, escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora. He wondered why 110-story towers crashed and military jets failed to intercept even one airliner. He read the 9/11 Commission report with a swell of anger. Contradictions were ignored and no military or civilian official was reprimanded, much less cashiered. "To me, the report read as a cartoon," Griffin said. "It's a much greater stretch to accept the official conspiracy story than to consider the alternatives." Such as? "There was massive complicity in this attack by U.S. government operatives." If that feels like a skip off the cliff of established reality, more Americans are in free fall than you might guess. There are few more startling measures of American distrust of leaders than the extent of belief that the Bush administration had a hand in the attacks of Sept. 11 to spark an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. 36 percent suspicious A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon. Distrust percolates more strongly near Ground Zero. A Zogby International poll of New York City residents two years ago found 49.3 percent believed the government "consciously failed to act." Establishment assessments of the believers tend toward the psychotherapeutic. Many academics, politicians and thinkers left, right and center say the conspiracy theories are a case of one plus one equals five. It's a piling up of improbabilities. Thomas Eager, a professor of materials science at MIT, has studied the collapse of the twin towers. "At first, I thought it was amazing that the buildings would come down in their own footprints," Eager says. "Then I realized that it wasn't that amazing — it's the only way a building that weighs a million tons and is 95 percent air can come down." But the chatter out there is loud enough for the National Institute of Standards and Technology to post a Web "fact sheet" poking holes in the conspiracy theories and defending its report on the towers. Motley crew The loose agglomeration known as the "9/11 Truth Movement" has stopped looking for truth from the government. A cacophonous and free-range a bunch of conspiracists, they produce hip-hop inflected documentaries and scholarly conferences. The Web is their mother lode. Every citizen is a researcher. Did you see that the CIA met with bin Laden in a hospital room in Dubai? Check out this Pakistani site; there are really weird doings in Baluchistan ... Peter Knight, senior lecturer in American studies at the University of Manchester and editor of the 2002 book "Conspiracy Nation: The Politics of Paranoia in Postwar America," called the movement "a strange beast, an amalgam of elements. You've got the anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war crowd — you know, if they lied about the war, maybe they lied about 9/11. Another part is people merely interested in the anomalies, with no preconceived political agenda. "Then you have the more traditional right-wing conspiracy part of the continuum that believes a vast cabal has taken over the United States, the mega-conspiracy of the right's new world order. To them, all of these things are connected. Each group inserts 9/11 into its pre-existing conspiracy model." The academic wing is led by Griffin, who founded the Center for a Postmodern World at Claremont University; James Fetzer, a tenured philosopher at the University of Minnesota; and Daniel Orr, retired chairman of the economics department at the University of Illinois. Professor suspended The movement's de facto minister of engineering is Steven Jones, a tenured physics professor at Brigham Young University who has studied vectors and velocities and tested explosives and concluded that the collapse of the twin towers is best explained as controlled demolition, sped by a thousand pounds of high-grade thermite. Jones has been placed on paid leave while the Mormon-church-owned school investigates his claims, it was announced Friday. The physicist published his views two weeks ago in the book "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out." Former Reagan aide Barbara Honegger is a senior military-affairs journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School in California. She's convinced, based on her freelance research, that a bomb went off about six minutes before an airplane hit the Pentagon — or didn't hit it, as some believe the case may be. Then there's Morgan O. Reynolds, appointed by George W. Bush as chief economist at the Labor Department. He left in 2002 and doesn't think much of his former boss. "Who did it? Elements of our government and M-16 and the Mossad. The government's case is a laugh-out-loud proposition. They used patsies and lies and subterfuge and there's no way that Bush and Cheney could have invaded Iraq without the help of 9/11," Reynolds asserts. They are cantankerous and sometimes distrust each other — who knows where the double agents lurk? But unreasonable questions resonate with the reasonable. Colleen Kelly's brother, a salesman, had breakfast at the Windows on the World restaurant on Sept. 11. After he died she founded September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows to oppose the Iraq war. She lives in the Bronx and gives a gingerly embrace to the conspiracy crowd. "Sometimes I listen to them and I think that's sooooo outlandish and bizarre," she says. "But that day had such disastrous geopolitical consequences. If David Ray Griffin asks uncomfortable questions and points out painful discrepancies, good for him." Griffin's book, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11," sold more than 100,000 copies and became a movement founding stone. Last year he traveled through New England, giving speeches. One evening in West Hartford, Conn., 400 mostly middle-aged and upper-middle-class doctors and lawyers, teachers and social workers sat waiting. Griffin took the podium and laid down his ideas with calm and cool. He concluded: "It is already possible to know beyond a reasonable doubt one very important thing: The destruction of the World Trade Center was an inside job, orchestrated by domestic terrorists. The welfare of our republic and perhaps even the survival of our civilization depend on getting the truth about 9/11 exposed." The audience rose and applauded for more than a minute. No patience Chip Berlet, senior analyst at Political Research Associates, a Boston-based left-leaning think tank, is no fan of the 9/11 Commission. He believes a serious investigation should have led to indictments and the firing of incompetent generals and civilian officials. But he has no patience with the conspiracy theorists. "They don't do their homework; it's a kind of charlatanism," says Berlet. "They say there's no debris on the lawn in front of the Pentagon, but they base their analysis on a photo on the Internet. That's like analyzing an impressionist painting by looking at a postcard. "I love 'The X-Files' but I don't base my research on it. My vision of hell is having to review these [conspiracy] books over and over again." In the days after Sept. 11, experts claimed temperatures reached 2,000 degrees on the upper floors. Others claimed steel melted. Nope. What happened, says Eager, the MIT materials-science professor, is that jet fuel sloshed around and beams got rubbery. "It's not too much to think that you could have some regions at 900 degrees and others at 1,200 degrees, and that will distort the beams." The truth movement doesn't really care for Eager. A Web site casts a fisheye of suspicion at the professor and his colleagues. "Did the MIT have prior knowledge?" notes one chat room. "This is for sure another speculative topic ... " Professsor Jones' suspension was reported Friday by The Associated Press. Peter Knight was quoted by McClatchy Newspapers.
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#829. To: wudidiz (#826)
Just to make sure he isn't going anywhere you mean? Oh, I don't know, maybe ten minutes or ten seconds. I get those confused. ahaha.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Yes, and basket weavers.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Setting in quiet contemplation? ;-)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
It's more fun than watching building seven drop over and over.
Wrong. (1) You can buy a current chart, which you are required to have, which shows all the VORTACs, their locations and frequencies. (2) The Course Indicator shows the radial to the VORTAC. (3) The DME on the VORTAC, combined with the radial, shows EXACLY where you are without the need for any other bearing. (4) Since you're quoting a source which states the FMS was turned off while a course change was made, then turned on again, it's clear that the person using the FMS knew how to use it, knew how to make changes to it, and knew when and why any changes would be needed. So the claim that Hanjour couldn't use the FMS is by itself disproven. (5) The fact that it is possible Hanjour did use the FMS does not alter the fact that he did not need to use the FMS to navigate. Basic trigonometry says if you have both a radial and a distance, you can precisely identify location. You only need a 2nd radial if the first radial does not have distance. (6) "It is doubtful" is speculation not fact.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are now reduced to just making stuff up and throwing it against the wa Perfect Soldiers Hijackers they Were This will be difficult for you to process, but there actually are investigative journalists and authors who are able to gather evidence, and research and write accurately ahout all kinds of different subjects. Of course, this poses a prohlem for you, because your pronouncements are no longer a claim worthy of any serious consideration. So naturally, you go on to Disinformation Rule #19 - your favorite - and deny everything that anybody else researches and publishes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground effect combined with 400+ mph velocity makes a crash into the earth difficult unless the plane is deliberately pointed towards the ground.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, and you ignore that research and evidence, or spin it into the opposite of what it conveys. So how did Hanjour figure out how to work the Boeing 757 flight management computer? Why are there no external fires on the outside of the Pentagon wall immediately after impact? Why are those men in suits getting off the bus carrying huge full bags with them, walking towards the Pentagon, which according to initial reports had NO airplane debris indicating an airliner just flew into it?
Ground effect occurs when flying less than 60 feet at 400+ mph, and that is what the aircraft did for at least a mile on its way to the Pentagon, dipping down to 20 feet the last split second in order to hit a 71 foot tall target. Diving into it from a higher altitude would NOT have resulted in any sort of "extra lift" due to ground effect, since the air pressure under the wings would not be enough to cause it to slow down or climb at such a steep angle, and just milliseconds from impact. Not only that, but the horizontal speed would have been very low, perhaps somewhere around 50 mph, thus between the angle of attack and the very low ground speed, there would be NO ground effect. Dipping down to 20 feet from 60 feet in the last few milliseconds WOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSE TO IMPOSSIBLE HOWEVER, as the air pressure under the wings would have risen significantly.
You can't even put a conventional low wing aircraft down, when flying over 100 mph close to a runway. You try it and you'll bounce up maybe 50 feet. Jets have thrust reversers so once they hit the ground with their wheels, with their flaps down and their power back, they run the engines backwards, so they don't go off a two mile long runway. People pushing these 911 theories really have so little knowledge of aircraft operations it's ridiculous.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You line up the nose of the airplane so the Course Deviation display shows the plane going right down the middle of the radial going to/coming from the VORTAC. As an added bonus you get the distance in nautical miles to the VORTAC transmitter. That's it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So it's possible he thought he could bounce over the Pentagon and was gambling on whether or not the plane would crash? That purty much wipes out the official slant about him being dead set on a martyrdom mission.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
So you admit that there is no possible way a 757 could fly 20 feet off the ground at 530 mph, correct?
On the contrary. I'm saying it's just about impossible to make a fast flying and aerodynamically clean 757 hit the ground. Because even when there is an attempted landing with gear down, flaps deployed, and power cut back the plane still wants to fly and fly and fly.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- buckeroo @ #650: Oh Boy... here comes some more subterfuge! FormerLurker @ #651: You Full Liars are claiming that a 757 did in fact do that, yet witnesses place the 757 NORTH of that approach, and two Pentagon police officers state those poles WEREN'T knocked down immediately after the impact. The news reports assume that the government wasn't lying about the light poles. Excerpts from PILOTS FOR 9/11 TRUTH - OUTLINING ANOMOLIES FOUND IN NTSB DATA: Pilot for 911 truth phone call - light poles, etc.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Wrong. You need to know what HEADING you wish to follow, based upon the plotted course after calculating the current position. The VORTAC signal will simply tell you your current bearing, (heading and distance from the VORTAC transmitter), you need to determine your current position by using TWO VORTAC signals, and utilizing a calculator, slide rule, or computer, triangulate the current postion using a bit of trig. THEN you can look at the navigational chart, where on a 757 it would be computerized (ie. within the flight management computer, where the VORTAC aides would ALSO be available), plot a course between the current position and destination (ie. determine the heading in relation to magnetic north), then turn the plane onto that heading. Thing is, Hanjour didn't need to do ANY of that since he would had to have used the Flight Management Computer, since autopilot is what navigated the aircraft from Ohio to Washington DC, and IT depends on FMS, and is in fact an integral component of that flight system. And of course, using a Boeing 757 Flight Management Computer is not something you can learn by flying a Cessna 172, or even playing with a 737 flight simulator, since a 757 uses a different Flight Management System than the 737.
Wow, do you really expect people to believe that jets have never crashed into the ground? What about Flight 93, what about all the other instances of jets crashing at high speed? YET, you expect people to believe that an incompetent dupe can fly a 757 at over 400 mph at treetop level and descend to 20 feet off the Pentagon lawn while at 530 mph. Only a total and complete retard would buy what you're selling, especially the part where you basically say "jets can't crash".
Nope. The only heading you need to follow is the one that puts the nose of your aircraft right down the middle of the radial to/from the VORTAC to/from your current location. No course deviation to the left, or to the right. Zero deviation, right down the middle of the CDI, will put you on a direct course.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's a misinterpretation based on your inability to know this subject yourself combined with your assumption that you do. Jets crash when you point them to crash, and you overcome factors trying to keep them going like ground effect and lift generated during a high speed and aerodynamically clean nape of the earth flight path.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you even know what a VORTAC transmitter is? It's not a magical "we'll do it for you, we know it all" instrument, it's a transmitter which broadcasts a signal which can be decoded by a VORTAC receiver onboard an aircraft, giving the aircraft's bearing in relation to the VORTAC transmitter. It doesn't guess where the pilot wants to go and help steer the plane for him. You are REALLY desperate here aren't you...
Yes, you point them down and they crash, yet you just tried to create your own laws of aerodynamics and state that a jet which is pointed down and diving at high speed will magically climb once it gets close to the ground and avoid impact. That is pure BS, and you know it. In a powered dive, there IS no ground effect involved due to slow relative ground speed, and high angle of attack.
The govt intercepts about 100 flights per year for various reasons and without a miss. THAT DAY, NORAD and the entire system was off their game. In North America hijacked planes just don't turn off transponders, leave their flight paths and leisurely jet to their destinations unless those in power want them to arrive. And if that was the case it may not have been necessary for any schmucks to actually fly the planes. The evidence of govt involvement is overwhelming, but some cannot accept it because it requires them to see the shadow govt and their stooges for the truly diabolical creatures that they are. It's one of our worst kept secrets that at command level in DC they will kill any Munchkin or even their own (Vince Foster, Paul Wellstone, William Colby) that threatens to side with the "enemy", the dumbshit people who actually believe in moral absolutes, i.e. Jesus, ethics, patriotism, loyalty, the constitution, etc.,. You must understand that many people would rather send you to prison than to accept the unpleasant truth about the govt they serve(d) and themselves. It's no diff than when a stacked jury is asked to choose between the truth about the income tax while admitting they've been played as fools for years, or, they can consider themselves "highly intelligent, patriotic and law abiding" by convicting the annual publicity target selected to "stimulate voluntary compliance". State worship is the religion of former KGB snitches and the defenders of the govt's ever changing 9/11 fairie tale and as a religion it should not be underestimated. Hell, I'd bet that most of the assassins in The Phoenix Program still believe in what they did. They certainly aren't likely to grow consciences and face the fact that they are no different than any other murdering cutthroats in history. ("Dear Pentagon, Please stop sending my pension cheacks as I can no longer in good conscience accept them..." Riiiiiight. That'll be the day) Some assassins no doubt believed that their uniforms and military protocol ennobled their evil, just as some feel that Sicilian tradition, or wars fought under the banners of gang or ethnic loyalties (Bloods vs. Crips) are enough to allow them to remain "good Christians" or at the very least "noble warriors". (The Vatican Bank's laundering of mafia funds certainly did nothing to undermine this belief) If you compare Major General Smedley Darlington Butler (WAR IS A RACKET) to Lieutenant General Lewis Burwell "Chesty" Puller it's easy to see that one flag officer was a man of good conscience who refused to use the flag as a blindfold while the other at the age of 67 asked to be reinstated for Vietnam, presumably ignoring the fact that our troops were dying in an undeclared "police action war" while Rockefeller's oil tankers never stopped moving in and out of "enemy harbors". (No declaration of war=no Geneva Convention protection. What 'Nam-era flag officer demanded this protection for his troops? Why, none as a matter of fact. BIG OIL and the MIC had needs after all....) A true patriot (like Butler) would criticize wars for crooked banker lackey-politicians. (like Kissinger) But, a state worshiper who apparently believed that all of his medals were awarded for honor (like Puller) was just too stupid to see that his self deception resulted in service to a truly diabolical god. His stupidity was reinforced by the fact that the truth was considered too rude to mention in polite company, i.e. a room filled with newspaper editors, politicians, diplomats, corporate profiteers and career climbing military officers. Puller's son was horribly maimed in 'Nam and after years as a govt lawyer, an unsuccessful campaign for Congress and writing the book FORTUNATE SON he eventually committed suicide. I'm not going to wish that it was his father who suffered the loss of both legs and parts of his hands in a mine explosion. But, I have to wonder if "Chesty" would have proudly borne his son's life changing injuries. He certainly didn't seem to believe that the men he commanded who were killed and injured in service to Big Oil or UNITED FRUIT CO. were wasted. The son didn't have the benefit of the father's flag blindness or "esprit de corpse", and it eventually took its toll. I remember an old B&W film about the first doctor who tried to explain how microscopic germs caused post-op infections and why surgeons should adopt strict hygiene measures. Needless to say the only way he could sell it was to get the older doctors to admit that in their ignorance they had killed countless numbers of their patients. (They don't make films like that anymore) Obviously the senior establishment tried to suppress and ignore the evidence in order to avoid the truth about themselves. Human nature has not changed. And the people who can ignore the disappearance of every security cam video that could tell the truth, the re-writing of the laws of physics and the mountain of evidence of govt involvement (not to mention that we're supposed to believe that a jumbo jet's wings, engines and landing gear folded up like a bird's and slid through a hole in the reinforced wall of the Pentagram) cannot (actually, will not) tell us why they refuse to acknowledge the obvious. But, the only place they can sell their deux deux is on the net as anonymous people. They cannot sell it in the meat world where their obvious conflicts of interest or reasons for their shameful loyalty to an evil corrupt system would be readily apparent to all who know and see them. In that respect they're like NAMBLA members or child molesters who can only advocate from a safe distance that which they dare not say when we can get our hands around their necks. Are we really supposed to take these people seriously? These shills and cowards are getting entirely too much attention for writing things they wouldn't dare utter from a public platform. Let's ignore them. Or at the very most give them no more of our time than we'd spend responding to anonymous sickos who like little boys' asses.
The Naudet Brothers? I suspect they were hired a bit later to fake footage for alleged Flight 11 as "proof". One of my hypotheticals is that alleged Flight 93 (occult meaning of that number being The Law) was cast to be destroyed first but that scenario was maybe hijacked by intel, et al. Some supporting evidence for that possibility here:
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Very well said Houndawg.
Thank you.
THAT DAY, NORAD and the entire system was off their game. In North America hijacked planes just don't turn off transponders, leave their flight paths and leisurely jet to their destinations unless those in power want them to arrive. And there just is no way around that.
Name calling is juvenile.
And we are still waiting. He hasn't touched it, he got back off into minutiae again. I think he prefers cherry picking.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Well said good sir. Well said.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
So I wonder what those guys WERE up to, the ones which get off the bus carrying large bags full of SOMETHING, starting right about 0:43 into the video? What was in those bags I wonder....
Hey, aren't those light poles at the beginning of the video supposed to have been downed?
I have wondered, and speculated, if there was not someone on board 93 who understood Avionics well enough to find and disconnect the remote control system. Someone aware of the system and was able to deduce and trace where the control lines would be and find "the box" and return control of the aircraft to the pilot or it malfunctioned with the same effect. The plane could not be allowed to survive as the moment it landed and the story told the jig would be up. So, they shot it down to protect the guilty. Then, like GI Jane in Iraq, they concoct a cock and bull story about a technically impossible cell call and the heroism of the valiant passengers overcoming the scary scary Terrists' only to fall short.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I do believe you are right. I'd have to look at one of the approach diagrams, but I think you may have hit on something.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
It's a good question and open to speculation, but there is nothing definite to go on. They could be Hazmat suits or they could be carrying in "debris".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I think the crew and passengers onboard the "hijacked aircraft" were either subdued or killed with some form of chemical agent introduced into the plane's ventilation system, THEN the remote control took over. Perhaps on Flight 93 the gas failed to release, thus when the remote control took over, the crew took steps to counteract it, leading to the necessity of them being shot down.
Haven't seen any pictures of people wearing hazmat suits at the Pentagon "crash site", although I HAVE seen images of guys with suits "picking up debris"...
I think the crew and passengers onboard the "hijacked aircraft" were either subdued or killed with some form of chemical agent introduced into the plane's ventilation system, THEN the remote control took over. Perhaps on Flight 93 the gas failed to release, thus when the remote control took over, the crew took steps to counteract it, leading to the necessity of them being shot down. Definitely 93 is a puzzler. Something went wrong from the point of view of the conspirators. What it was is the puzzler.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Haven't seen any pictures of people wearing hazmat suits at the Pentagon "crash site", although I HAVE seen images of guys with suits "picking up debris"... Whatever was in the bags was fairly heavy - you can tell that by the way they are leaning to support the weight. However, other than it is suspicious there is insufficient data to draw a conclusion.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I think we both agree that the crew somehow overcame whatever was done to the flight systems, and regained control of the aircraft. Due to that, they had to get shot down.
I'd like to see any sort of official investigation identify those individuals, and have them testify under oath what was in those bags, and whether or not any of those individuals were part of the photo shoot showing men in suits running around the Pentagon lawn picking up debis. If everybody among the brass with honor walked away from the Military because government is being run by demigogue diabolicals instigating wars instead of being reined in by We the People like it's supposed to be, then all that would be left guiding our service members in harm's way would be demigogue diabolicals who couldn't care less about them.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I think we both agree that the crew somehow overcame whatever was done to the flight systems, and regained control of the aircraft. Due to that, they had to get shot down. Yes, however it came to be the crew was able to regain control of the plane and the last thing they wanted was live witnesses. I hadn't thought of the gas angle, but the bastards are evil enough to just whack all the passengers with sarin or some such as that would put them "out of the way". Certainly the operation had been in the planning stages for at least 2 or 3 years so they would have had time to select their planes and rig them well in advance.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestWhat's the longest you figure you ever watched him for?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#830. To: Original_Intent (#828)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#831. To: James Deffenbach (#830)
#832. To: James Deffenbach (#829)
#833. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#769)
B) I am ALSO stating that you can't just change direction and plot course with the VORTAC signal, that only gives you a bearing, you need to know how to use navigational maps (which are COMPUTERIZED on a 757 by the way) in order to PLOT a bearing to your desination, and to do that you need to determine your current position.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#834. To: OInk. buckeroo (#801)
And you know this HOW?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#835. To: GreyLmist (#807)
Tell me, "Mr. Aviator", on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being most difficult, how hard would it be for an incompetent and suicidal hijacker to control a huge plane he had about zero experience maneuvering so, mere inches above the ground as if it was a rocket-propelled hovercraft, through dense air and high g-forces at such a speed, when he could have nosedived into the roof quicker, easier and most likely with a much higher casualty count if the objective and motivation was to be a martyr and not an amatuer stunt pilot?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#836. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent (#834)
This will be difficult for you to process, but there actually are investigative journalists and authors who are able to gather evidence, and research and write accurately ahout all kinds of different subjects.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#837. To: AGAviator, GreyLmist (#835)
(Edited)
Ground effect combined with 400+ mph velocity makes a crash into the earth difficult unless the plane is deliberately pointed towards the ground.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#838. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#837)
Ground effect occurs when flying less than 60 feet at 400+ mph, and that is what the aircraft did for at least a mile on it's way to the Pentagon, dipping down to 20 feet the last split second in order to hit a 71 foot tall target
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#839. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#806)
already know that you need to do more than punch 4 numbers into the frequency control of the VORTAC receiver, you need to know what to DO with the information it returns. It doesn't fly or navigate the plane for
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#840. To: AGAviator (#838)
You can't even put a conventional low wing aircraft down, when flying over 100 mph close to a runway. You try it and you'll bounce up maybe 50 feet.
#841. To: AGAviator (#838)
You can't even put a conventional low wing aircraft down, when flying over 100 mph close to a runway. You try it and you'll bounce up maybe 50 feet.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#842. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#841)
So you admit that there is no possible way a 757 could fly 20 feet off the ground at 530 mph, correct
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#843. To: buckeroo, AGAviator, FormerLurker, All (#650)
AGAviator, not one of the Pilots for 9/11 Truth @ #644: Huh? Aren't you Half Tw00fers claiming the 757 didn't hit the lamps?
The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support official events...All Altitude data shows the aircraft at least 300 feet too high to have struck the light poles.
#844. To: AGAviator (#839)
(Edited)
You line up the nose of the airplane so the Course Deviation display shows the plane going right down the middle of the radial going to/coming from the VORTAC. As an added bonus you get the distance in nautical miles to the VORTAC transmitter. That's it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#845. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, GreyLmist, James Deffenbach, wudidiz, ALL (#842)
On the contrary. I'm saying it's just about impossible to make a fast flying and aerodynamically clean 757 hit the ground. Because even when there is an attempted landing with gear down, flaps deployed, and power cut back the plane still wants to fly and fly and fly.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#846. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#844)
Wrong. You need to know what HEADING you wish to follow,
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#847. To: FormerLurker (#845)
Only a total and complete retard would buy what you're selling, especially the part where you basically say "jets can't crash"
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#848. To: AGAviator (#846)
(Edited)
The only heading you need to follow is the one that puts the nose of your aircraft right down the middle of the radial to/from the VORTAC to/from your current location.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#849. To: AGAviator (#847)
Jets crash when you point them to crash, and you overcome factors trying to keep them going like ground effect and lift generated during a high speed and aerodynamically clean nape of the earth flight path.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#850. To: wudidiz, abraxas, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, buckeroo, christine, Jethro_Tull, SonOfLiberty, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, AGAviator, farmfriend (#634)
(Edited)
All that and still no other pentagon videos released.
#851. To: RickyJ (#824)
This just goes to show that eyewitnesses are not always right on what they hear or what they see. There was a video taped by a documentary film group that happened to be filming at the time the first plane hit the North Tower and captured it's impact with the North Tower.
#852. To: HOUNDDAWG (#850)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#853. To: FormerLurker (#852)
#854. To: HOUNDDAWG (#850)
The govt intercepts about 100 flights per year for various reasons and without a miss.
#855. To: FormerLurker (#741)
I wonder how long it'll take AGAviator to find some "explanation"...
#856. To: HOUNDDAWG, all (#850)
#857. To: Original_Intent, wudidiz, AGAviator, ALL (#855)
And we are still waiting. He hasn't touched it, he got back off into minutiae again. I think he prefers cherry picking
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#858. To: Original_Intent, All (#857)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#859. To: GreyLmist (#851)
One of my hypotheticals is that alleged Flight 93 (occult meaning of that number being The Law) was cast to be destroyed first but that scenario was maybe hijacked by intel, et al.
#860. To: FormerLurker (#858)
#861. To: FormerLurker (#857)
What was in those bags I wonder....
#862. To: Original_Intent, GreyLmist (#859)
I have wondered, and speculated, if there was not someone on board 93 who understood Avionics well enough to find and disconnect the remote control system. Someone aware of the system and was able to deduce and trace where the control lines would be and find "the box" and return control of the aircraft to the pilot or it malfunctioned with the same effect.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#863. To: Original_Intent (#861)
They could be Hazmat suits or they could be carrying in "debris".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#864. To: FormerLurker, GreyLmist (#862)
I have wondered, and speculated, if there was not someone on board 93 who understood Avionics well enough to find and disconnect the remote control system. Someone aware of the system and was able to deduce and trace where the control lines would be and find "the box" and return control of the aircraft to the pilot or it malfunctioned with the same effect.
#865. To: FormerLurker (#863)
They could be Hazmat suits or they could be carrying in "debris".
#866. To: Original_Intent (#864)
Definitely 93 is a puzzler. Something went wrong from the point of view of the conspirators. What it was is the puzzler.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#867. To: Original_Intent (#865)
(Edited)
Whatever was in the bags was fairly heavy - you can tell that by the way they are leaning to support the weight. However, other than it is suspicious there is insufficient data to draw a conclusion.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#868. To: HOUNDDAWG (#850)
(Edited)
#869. To: FormerLurker (#866)
Definitely 93 is a puzzler. Something went wrong from the point of view of the conspirators. What it was is the puzzler.
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