See other 9/11 Articles
Title: The 9/11 conspiracy plots thicken
Source:
Seattle Times
URL Source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht ... /2003250424_911conspire09.html
Published: Sep 09, 2006
Author: Michael Powell, wapo
Post Date: 2010-07-19 22:23:35 by Dakmar
Keywords: None
Views: 15436
Comments: 989
They are politically diverse and include academics, ex-officials and Web surfers. All share a belief that the Bush administration played a role in the 9/11 attacks. Their numbers seem to speak to Americans' innate distrust of their government. The Washington Post NEW YORK — He felt no shiver of doubt in those first terrible hours. He watched the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and assumed al-Qaida had wreaked terrible vengeance. He listened to anchors and military experts and assumed the facts of Sept. 11, 2001, were as stated on the screen. It was a year before David Ray Griffin, an eminent liberal theologian and philosopher, began his stroll down the path of disbelief. He wondered why Bush listened to a child's story while the nation was attacked and how Osama bin Laden, America's Public Enemy No. 1, escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora. He wondered why 110-story towers crashed and military jets failed to intercept even one airliner. He read the 9/11 Commission report with a swell of anger. Contradictions were ignored and no military or civilian official was reprimanded, much less cashiered. "To me, the report read as a cartoon," Griffin said. "It's a much greater stretch to accept the official conspiracy story than to consider the alternatives." Such as? "There was massive complicity in this attack by U.S. government operatives." If that feels like a skip off the cliff of established reality, more Americans are in free fall than you might guess. There are few more startling measures of American distrust of leaders than the extent of belief that the Bush administration had a hand in the attacks of Sept. 11 to spark an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. 36 percent suspicious A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon. Distrust percolates more strongly near Ground Zero. A Zogby International poll of New York City residents two years ago found 49.3 percent believed the government "consciously failed to act." Establishment assessments of the believers tend toward the psychotherapeutic. Many academics, politicians and thinkers left, right and center say the conspiracy theories are a case of one plus one equals five. It's a piling up of improbabilities. Thomas Eager, a professor of materials science at MIT, has studied the collapse of the twin towers. "At first, I thought it was amazing that the buildings would come down in their own footprints," Eager says. "Then I realized that it wasn't that amazing — it's the only way a building that weighs a million tons and is 95 percent air can come down." But the chatter out there is loud enough for the National Institute of Standards and Technology to post a Web "fact sheet" poking holes in the conspiracy theories and defending its report on the towers. Motley crew The loose agglomeration known as the "9/11 Truth Movement" has stopped looking for truth from the government. A cacophonous and free-range a bunch of conspiracists, they produce hip-hop inflected documentaries and scholarly conferences. The Web is their mother lode. Every citizen is a researcher. Did you see that the CIA met with bin Laden in a hospital room in Dubai? Check out this Pakistani site; there are really weird doings in Baluchistan ... Peter Knight, senior lecturer in American studies at the University of Manchester and editor of the 2002 book "Conspiracy Nation: The Politics of Paranoia in Postwar America," called the movement "a strange beast, an amalgam of elements. You've got the anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war crowd — you know, if they lied about the war, maybe they lied about 9/11. Another part is people merely interested in the anomalies, with no preconceived political agenda. "Then you have the more traditional right-wing conspiracy part of the continuum that believes a vast cabal has taken over the United States, the mega-conspiracy of the right's new world order. To them, all of these things are connected. Each group inserts 9/11 into its pre-existing conspiracy model." The academic wing is led by Griffin, who founded the Center for a Postmodern World at Claremont University; James Fetzer, a tenured philosopher at the University of Minnesota; and Daniel Orr, retired chairman of the economics department at the University of Illinois. Professor suspended The movement's de facto minister of engineering is Steven Jones, a tenured physics professor at Brigham Young University who has studied vectors and velocities and tested explosives and concluded that the collapse of the twin towers is best explained as controlled demolition, sped by a thousand pounds of high-grade thermite. Jones has been placed on paid leave while the Mormon-church-owned school investigates his claims, it was announced Friday. The physicist published his views two weeks ago in the book "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out." Former Reagan aide Barbara Honegger is a senior military-affairs journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School in California. She's convinced, based on her freelance research, that a bomb went off about six minutes before an airplane hit the Pentagon — or didn't hit it, as some believe the case may be. Then there's Morgan O. Reynolds, appointed by George W. Bush as chief economist at the Labor Department. He left in 2002 and doesn't think much of his former boss. "Who did it? Elements of our government and M-16 and the Mossad. The government's case is a laugh-out-loud proposition. They used patsies and lies and subterfuge and there's no way that Bush and Cheney could have invaded Iraq without the help of 9/11," Reynolds asserts. They are cantankerous and sometimes distrust each other — who knows where the double agents lurk? But unreasonable questions resonate with the reasonable. Colleen Kelly's brother, a salesman, had breakfast at the Windows on the World restaurant on Sept. 11. After he died she founded September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows to oppose the Iraq war. She lives in the Bronx and gives a gingerly embrace to the conspiracy crowd. "Sometimes I listen to them and I think that's sooooo outlandish and bizarre," she says. "But that day had such disastrous geopolitical consequences. If David Ray Griffin asks uncomfortable questions and points out painful discrepancies, good for him." Griffin's book, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11," sold more than 100,000 copies and became a movement founding stone. Last year he traveled through New England, giving speeches. One evening in West Hartford, Conn., 400 mostly middle-aged and upper-middle-class doctors and lawyers, teachers and social workers sat waiting. Griffin took the podium and laid down his ideas with calm and cool. He concluded: "It is already possible to know beyond a reasonable doubt one very important thing: The destruction of the World Trade Center was an inside job, orchestrated by domestic terrorists. The welfare of our republic and perhaps even the survival of our civilization depend on getting the truth about 9/11 exposed." The audience rose and applauded for more than a minute. No patience Chip Berlet, senior analyst at Political Research Associates, a Boston-based left-leaning think tank, is no fan of the 9/11 Commission. He believes a serious investigation should have led to indictments and the firing of incompetent generals and civilian officials. But he has no patience with the conspiracy theorists. "They don't do their homework; it's a kind of charlatanism," says Berlet. "They say there's no debris on the lawn in front of the Pentagon, but they base their analysis on a photo on the Internet. That's like analyzing an impressionist painting by looking at a postcard. "I love 'The X-Files' but I don't base my research on it. My vision of hell is having to review these [conspiracy] books over and over again." In the days after Sept. 11, experts claimed temperatures reached 2,000 degrees on the upper floors. Others claimed steel melted. Nope. What happened, says Eager, the MIT materials-science professor, is that jet fuel sloshed around and beams got rubbery. "It's not too much to think that you could have some regions at 900 degrees and others at 1,200 degrees, and that will distort the beams." The truth movement doesn't really care for Eager. A Web site casts a fisheye of suspicion at the professor and his colleagues. "Did the MIT have prior knowledge?" notes one chat room. "This is for sure another speculative topic ... " Professsor Jones' suspension was reported Friday by The Associated Press. Peter Knight was quoted by McClatchy Newspapers.
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Michael Script - Dialogue Transcript What can you do? Small miracles, only so many. Some angels aren't so smart. They use them up in stupid ways. Like the parking space angel? I don't like to criticize other angels. ...I'll be with you in a minute... Excerpt from Don't transform, restore values by Maj. Gen. Patrick Brady (U.S. Army retired) - Express-News: [Charles Kelly] was the commander of the only air ambulance unit in Vietnam when Dust Off operations were little understood. Kelly’s boss decided that Dust Off should be a part-time mission of the air ambulances. The aircraft would be used for ash and trash until there was a patient then a portable red cross would be slapped on the bird to fly the medical mission. This was, of course, insane and Kelly was outraged. He openly denounced his leadership and set about to prove that no one could do the medical mission better than medics. Patient survival drove everything. He flew at night, in weather and landed on battlefields often during the battle. He became known as Mad Man Kelly and his exploits were legendary. On July 1, 1964, Kelly came under heavy fire as he landed to rescue wounded soldiers. The ground forces screamed at him to get out. Kelly responded: “When I have your wounded.” ------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Thanks so much, HAPPY. Here's some more of those: _______ Excerpts from Rumsfeld speech at Google's cache of http://www.defense.gov/speeches/speech.aspx?speechid=430. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Jul 25, 2010 22:37:49 GMT: DOD Acquisition and Logistics Excellence Week Kickoff—Bureaucracy to Battlefield . There's a myth, sort of a legend, that money enters this building and disappears, like a bright light into a black hole, never to be seen again. In truth, there is a real person at the other end of every dollar, a real person who's in charge of every domain, and that means that there will be real consequences from, and real resistance to, fundamental change. We will not complete this work in one year, or five years, or even eight years. An institution built with trillions of dollars over decades of time does not turn on a dime. Some say it's like turning a battleship. I suspect it's more difficult. _______ Missing Pentagon Trillions - Where Did They COME From? By Joshua Daniels 1-21-8 On September 10, 2001, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld admitted that the Pentagon had lost, by the estimate he chose to use for his speech, 2.3 trillion dollars. Many of you good readers know about this, and are asking where the money went. That's a good question, but what really intrigues me is: Where did it come from? If you add up the entire US defense budgets from 1996 to 2001, you only come up with circa 1.6 trillion. Yet, according to Rummy, not only was that much money lost, but an ADDITIONAL 700 BILLION dollars has disappeared. Remember, we're talking about 2.3 trillion dollars "missing." Exact figures very by source, but are close to each other, so I'll deal in round numbers. To come up with 2.3 trillion dollars of military spending, you have to add up all the defense budgets from about 1991 to 2001. For all those years, the Pentagon spent hundreds of billions and didn't get a single receipt, didn't account for a single dime? Not possible, and no one's claiming that it happened. The missing money was part of some budget, but it's a number bigger than the defense budgets we're to believe it's a "part" of, so it was a part of some OTHER budget, one we don't know about. 1996 through 2001 is a lot of years for the Government Accounting Office (GAO) to fail to notice that the entire defense budget went missing. I don't believe they did fail to notice it, because the missing money wasn't on the books to begin with. It couldn't have been; it's more money than we gave them. This is not an accounting error. We know the soldiers and sailors got paid, the tanks and planes got bought, and the missiles got purchased, because the companies that made them cashed the checks, and the banks issued statements showing that the money went out and to whom it went. We know that most of that money got properly accounted for, because the GAO and OMB have been checking figures, making recommendations for savings, etc., and would have spotted a gap of any real size. We also suspect the usual drugs, cars, mansions, and hookers of all ages and sexes. But all these only add up to the official hundreds of billions, not the missing thousands of billions. Most of the missing money could never have been part of a defense budget, and could not have come from our government. It had to have come from someone else, someone who MUST want the Pentagon to do something for them. Nobody gives gifts that big but God. So, just who hired the Pentagon to do whatever they hired it to do? Who wrote those checks? What are they paying for? When do they expect it? Who is its target? How can we put a stop to this blatant prostitution? I have no answers, but I can narrow the list: not many people outside the Federal Reserve owners have access to that kind of money. And not many people beside the Federal Reserve owners want to use the American military and its loyal, devoted troops to bend the world to their will. Come to think of it, NO ONE outside the Federal Reserve owners meets those two criteria. You can't change the plantation, and there has never been a successful peasant revolt throughout history. You can, however, leave the plantation, build a position of strength, and then take the plantation from the slavers and run it according to sane principles. I'm preparing to do exactly that. I think you should, too. Joshua Daniels has been a Consulting Business Analyst for the past twelve years. More recently, he has been devoting his spare time to developing a viable alternative to the rat race, and has succeeded. Noticing little problems like this one are sort of a hobby for him. _______ Brady Bond issue info at Post #479 _______
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Some references on Brady Bonds for research: Going Global: Brady Bonds - Education Center - Yahoo! Finance Geithner Revisits Brady Bonds - Forbes.com Nicholas Brady was Treasury secretary in the George H. W. Bush administration, and he came up with a plan that was not terribly well received at the time. He allowed Mexico to acquire an odd, zero-coupon U.S. Treasury bond to be used as collateral (to assure the repayment of principal but not the interest on the bonds) for a selection of new Mexican government bonds that could be exchanged for old Mexican bank loans at a discount. The details of the plan were complicated, and no one knew whether it would work or not. The banks (perhaps with a firm nudge from the Fed) agreed to exchange their old bonds for new bonds and sold the new bonds in the market, which provided liquidity for the securities, which boosted their prices. Within a few years, many other countries also issued billions of dollars of Brady Bonds, and the banking and Third World debt crisis moved into the history books. [end excerpt] THE BRADY BONDS, THE FRAUDS & 1991 BANK FAILURES By V.K. Durham DISCERNING MINDS, can easily connect the "dots" between the 10 years between September 12, 1991 and the September 11, 2001 incidents. The TRANSACTION was put down THROUGH ISRAEL. The transaction involved, Russia, China, Korea, Germany, France, Japan, and THE SAUDI'S. Ask yourself: WHICH OF THESE NATIONS ARE CURRENTLY INVOLVED "IN THIS CURRENT PENDING WAR?" This TRANSACTION was to continue until: "THE U.S. DOLLAR WAS EXHAUSTED. THE JAPANESE YEN WAS EXHAUSTED. THE GERMAN DUTCH MARK WAS EXHAUSTED." Further ask of yourself: " AFTER THE 10 YEAR TERM OF THE "AGREEMENT" OF SEPTEMBER 12, 1991 WHICH ENDED ON OR ABOUT 9/11/01; WHAT IS THE CONDITION OF THE U.S. DOLLAR? WHAT IS THE CONDITION OF THE JAPANESE YEN? WHAT IS THE CONDITION OF THE GERMAN DUTCH MARK?" [end excerpt]
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
You: Here's a Flight 11 recorded call including Betty Ong, going on for 8 minutes. I hear engine noise in the background. How about you? As far as nit picking over minutiae, the issues have always been whether (A) Any actual tangible forensic evidence contradicting CT's exists, and (B) Whether verifiable evidence supporting CT's exists, not arm waving generalizations and selective editings of evidence used elsewhere. __________ Sounds like it might be static but could be construed as engine-noise. Here's an alleged recording of CeeCee Lyles' call that sounds less staticy: Video by Fight0Tyranny: Flight 93 - Exposed -Smoking Gun Evidence. Video by WelcomeToKilltown: CeeCee Lyles airphone call allegedly from UA93 WelcomeToKilltown | July 26, 2008 Creepy phone call from CeeCee Lyles leaving a message to her husband allegedly from Flight 93. After her call, a creepy faint voice is heard saying "You did great!" She refers to their kids as "my children," not "our children." It also sounds like she is purposely having a hard time hanging up the phone. Other strange voices are heard in the background. Also, she doesn't describe the ethnicity or any other description of the hijackers other than there were 3 of them. Find by 'CanadianVandal' _______________ About the alleged AA11 B.Ong call, she mentions people having trouble breathing in business class because of something that might have been sprayed but the person supposedly coming from that area (that might be just curtained off) doesn't sound like that, neither does B.Ong, and no coughing or panicked passenger sounds are heard. Also, B.Ong doesn't identify hijackers on the recording or their seat numbers. Any info of that comes from the unreliable witness, Nydia Gonzalez at Reservations, who calls them "gents" and relays wrongly to the AA emergency lineman that "everyone's been stabbed." B.Ong's audio is shut off during medical info, after stating that no one else was contacted, and Gonzalez could be making everything up thereafter. FormerLurker, I flagged you to this to ask if you could locate a pic I think you posted and commented on -- a man picking up debris at the Pentagon where you mentioned his shoes, iirc.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Thank you for your eloquent response, sir. I would like to reply to it in a few days to be able to better address some of the issues you spoke of. For now, I can tell you speaking for myself that I suspected very soon after 9/11 that there were only "paper planes" of a sort being reported and projected for FX before there was a No Planes research and investigation branch of the Truth Movement. Re: holograms: I was in line for something at Disneyland about 30 years ago when I heard a small voice saying, "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope." It was a tiny, lifelike and moving hologram of Princess Leia from Star Wars. There was also a really cool place with 3D stuff flying around that looked so real it seemed like you could touch them. However, the No Planes research is focused on CGI/Computer Graphic Imagery and not holograms. Ref: Killtown's CGI work at http://killtown.911review.org/.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Like expecting someone making a call during a life and death crisis to make statements you won't find something to nit pick apart 8 years after it's made. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So the men getting off the bus are likely medics. Young, fit, carrying large bags with lots of equipment in them, heading to the action. So where's the conspiracy?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- His service in Vietnam, honorable or not, confers no shield of invisibility to the establishment agitprop buck posts these days. He posts bs and he can be expected to be called on it. I used to respect him some but have lost that since he became a willing toady for the establishment whores who would kill us all if it suited their purposes. No one has said that he doesn't have the right to post bs but when it can be clearly seen for what it is then other people have the right to call him on it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ... Thanks!
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
Medics in suits? Yeah right... You are most welcome and I thank you for your kind reply. While I will await your full thoughts before expressing much in the way of misgivings (and peruse your link). I would simply suggest that any type of imagery would require sound effects in order to be effective, thus requiring an omnidirectional sound projection system to accompany any image projection. Again, while technically doable I do not think it a best fit to the available data. However, I'll withhold final judgment pending more data.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Here is a complete 911 video from various networks. http://www.archive.org/details/sept_11_tv_archive
Thank you worthy sir.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Here is how I found it. http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=11763&Disp=5#C5 I haven't seen this complete a library on 911 before.
Here is a sample. Good Morning America on 911 right before it happened and on.
God, you're even going to twist that statement? Are the persons in your photo "getting off the bus?" You see any bus in your photo? Are the 2 people in your photo "carrying large bags of equipment?" WTF are these people, in my photo, heading to the action? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good question, but the guys in suits getting off the bus look very similar to the ones picking up debris. In fact, they are wearing the same clothes basically, except for the fact in one picture they're wearing long sleeve shirts, and in the other they're wearing short sleeve shirts.
I don't think so at all. The people coming off the bus seem 10-20 years younger and in far better physical condition. If I had to guess I'd say they're combat trained medics, while the persons holding debris pieces are mid management investigators.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have QUESTIONS ... but in the face of a conspiracy... where are the FACTS, where are the WITNESSES, where is the DOCUMENTATION? One sliver of detail BEYOND pure speculation would suffice for poor ol' bucky. You are well aware that the multiple murders of 9/11 were not treated as crimes, and no effort was made to preserve the evidence for proper forensic investigation. And, as with all derailed investigations against our wormy, corrupt govt, important witnesses always die under mysterious circumstances. And, in the absence of proper forensic investigations and witnesses (and surviving family members who refuse to be bought off and silenced) any attempt to document anything to the satisfaction of the govt criminals who are continuing to abet the crimes is a bit premature. If you take the position that there isn't enough evidence to warrant a proper investigation of 9/11 now, then I DARE YOU TO WRITE THAT FOR ALL TO SEE! The evidence (which could not be buried or otherwise obfuscated) coupled with the fact that you aren't the slightest bit suspicious or even curious about these statistically impossible "coincidences" is all the proof I need that you are either incapable of critical thought processes or (more likely) a goddamned liar. Either way, you and your heaping piles of lame insults in response to points which you're incapable of answering don't deserve any more well reasoned responses. Only the very dumb or the very corrupt can view the mountains of evidence, (i.e. fine powdered concrete dust and molten metal a month after the implosions all neatly piled into the buildings' own footprints after collapsing at free fall speed, including materials ejected at 100 mph during the collapse) and ask the questions you've asked. Enough great scientific minds have confirmed that which your cowardly black soul cannot, and reliance upon the dumbed down mentality of the public street will soon fail you and others who are so desperately trying to keep the lid on this boiling pressure cooker. Simply put, the fact that most Americans are too stupid to understand the scientific and physical principles and irrefutable evidence that is not subject to horseshit rhetorical spin will not protect the criminals forever. If you are involved you'd better start making travel plans, preferably to a country with no extradition treaty with the US. If not then prepare for a new screen name so you can come back and sneak up on us again, okay, Rabbi? I suppose your next tactic will be, "Why are we funding these WTC investigations when America's infrastructure is collapsing? Call or write your congressman now and demand that WTC funds be used to inspect our bridges!" After conferring with others I no longer believe your story about being a critically burned Vietnam vet. Where are the video clips from your appearances on the 700 Club? No FACTS, no WITNESSES, no DOCUMENTATION? No credibility. You're just another rabbi typing furiously away in the basement of some Israeli Yeshiva with a twofold mission; to derail the 9/11 investigation and to scratch the fleas in your beard.
I've had some dialogue behind the scenes and I agree with you.
That, and he would only testify in front of the commission if he were allowed to be accompanied by Dick Cheney, behind closed doors, and not under oath. DAWG: "Doesn't this make you the slightest bit suspicious, buck?" buckaroo: "Nope!"
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Only the very dumb or the very corrupt can view the mountains of evidence, (i.e. fine powdered concrete dust and molten metal a month after the implosions all neatly piled into the buildings' own footprints after collapsing at free fall speed, including materials ejected at 100 mph during the collapse) and ask the questions you've asked. Enough great scientific minds have confirmed that which your cowardly black soul cannot, and reliance upon the dumbed down mentality of the public street will soon fail you and others who are so desperately trying to keep the lid on this boiling pressure cooker. Simply put, the fact that most Americans are too stupid to understand the scientific and physical principles and irrefutable evidence that is not subject to horseshit rhetorical spin will not protect the criminals forever. That was a fine post, Dawg.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. outstanding...
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
A few points for your list would be: 1. The two hour advance warning employees at the Israeli Instant Messaging Company Odigo received. 2. The "Dancing Israelis". 3. That there were "exercises" using basically the same scenario as the 911 attacks that were being conducted the morning of 911. 4. That the supposed phone calls by Ted Olson have been completely disproved - by Ted Olson has he has changed his story on at least two occasions. One call got through - duration zero. 5. That NONE of the pilots on any of the 4 aircraft made a distress call or typed out the 4 digit Hijack Code (which they are trained to do and takes about 2 to 3 seconds). The planes without warning simply ceased transmitting. 6. That the North American Air Defense Command was able to scramble jets and have them intercept golfer Payne Stewart's Lear jet within 30 minutes but were unable to intercept even 1 out of 4 "hijacked" airliners in 2 hours. What I would suggest is to start a thread on the subject of 911 coincidences and explain in the header essay what you are looking for i.e., "coincidences" that are not arcane and that can be communicated simply to raw public.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Thank you, J_D.
And, thank you chris and Eric, and please forgive my late arrival into the light of understanding. I made an allowance for buckaroo because of my brother, a Nam vet who succumbed to Agent Orange-related problems. But, after thinking it over I realized that because of the despicable way the V.A., The VFW, Hollywood producers (who like to script Nam vets as mad bombing bank robbers) and those in govt who could remedy these injustices treat Nam vets, I can't recall ever meeting a single veteran who was so anxious to "commit internet perjury" in defense of the criminal cartel that is FEDGOV. Ordinarily I assume that shills in general and 9/11 shills in particular (especially one who has demonstrated that he'll lie faster than a pony can trot) are lying about everything they offer by way of their "credibility resume". I foolishly assumed that one thing buck wrote was the gospel truth when he has yet to write a single thing on any issue that I could verify as true. In the future he gets no more benefit of the doubt than he is willing to grant to the patriots he so cheerfully savages, patriots who are trying to save America, not earn medals for kissing the asses of truly diabolical mass murderers and their henchmen.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Just wondering if they had search and seizure warrants prepared ahead of time for each location or figured they didn't need any warrants to do that and, if so, why. http://www.usconstitution.ne t/ const.html#Am4 Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
So where's the conspiracy? I asked you if you thought there was anything unusual at all about the helicopter parked so close to the pole, not what you think about the men.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
That call sounds more like reservations being made for a medical operation than a life and death hijacking crisis. The call supposedly lasted 20 minutes, the first 12 minutes are missing, and about half of the 8 minute recording is mostly concerned with inane questioning about what seat B.Ong was sitting in -- like its of some mathematical "order of operations" importance or something. Gonzalez asks twice if anyone else was contacted, yet about 16 minutes were wasted by her and the alleged staff contacting no one they should have if a hijack was actually in process. You posted the video-recording that doesn't really support the official story and these are the established facts of evidence shown from it: no mace-coughing or panicked passenger sounds are heard. Also, B.Ong doesn't identify hijackers on the recording or their seat numbers. Any info of that comes from the unreliable witness, Nydia Gonzalez, alleged operations specialist at Raliegh Reservations, who calls them "gents" and relays wrongly to the alleged AA emergency lineman that "the pilot, everyone's been stabbed." B.Ong's audio is shut off during medical info, after stating that no one else was contacted, and Gonzalez could be making everything up thereafter.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I found the pic I asked you about but it wasn't posted by you or in this forum: I wanted to compare the bald man on the left in the blue FBI jacket to a pic of CeeCee Lyles' alleged husband, who is said to be a Florida law enforcement officer: Excerpts from a CeeCee Lyles bio-site: The flight attendant's husband, Lorne Lyles, 31, is a police officer in Fort Myers, Fla. It was the second marriage for both; together, they had four children. The Lyles previously lived in Fort Pierce, Fla., where both worked for the Fort Pierce Police Department, said Jessica Williams, who knows the family.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I blew it up until I was sure. The FBI guy has a different shaped head, larger forehead for one, and is definitely lighter skinned. Not the same man.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I was taking my pics the evening after from just beyond the CITGO station and was chased outta there. I was on the road out in front of the Navy Annex. They dispatched a cop that came all the way over on foot to tell me I was "about to have a very bad day" in a tremendously hostile tone. Thanks for those reports, Eric. Sounds like not only was the 4th Amendment violated by seizure of the videos w/o warrant and unreasonably long retention of them but you were threatened with cruel and unusual punishment -- which would have been a violation of the 8th Amendment.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Maybe you're right that it's not the same man but the shape of the ears look very similar, imo.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Hi, Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you on this again, as I said I would. I'm pressed for time right now but wanted to drop by on my way to the outside world to speak with you a bit more about the issues you addressed and to clarify my views on the No Planes field of research/investigation. After rereading your post, you've said everything so well and comprehensively that I hope everyone here will take the time to read it too. There's not much at this point I can think of to add or contest. Yes, sound effects would likely be involved to some extent in the No Planes scenarios but holograms aren't a component that would be necessary to bring about the wanted effect which could be accomplished by CGI, selected interviews of pre-programmed "witness" actors, confused witnesses, media blackouts of those who didn't see planes or only heard sounds as if there were and so on. The old "Occam's Razor" axiom pushed so often by the Official Conspiracy Theorists backfired on them because the only way Inside Jobbers could virtually control the unfolding with any certainties would be to not use hijackers and planes, wherein so many things could go wrong for them. Gerard Holmgren, who recently died of cancer, is one of the No Planes researchers/investigators who did extensive work that indicates many of the alleged witnesses are possibly fake. I think you posted something he wrote before so I believe you respected him, as I and others do, as an intelligent and credible guide through treacherous "terrain" from this disaster. Who knows, maybe he can still be a guiding spirit for us that can ease some misgivings about the No Planes perspective, at least through the writings he gave us. I realize the first impulse of most people is to slam the door on it and distance themselves hurredly from it but I'm sure they can't be sure that it couldn't be true so to do that is like demanding the data fit a preset conclusion, as GWBush and crew wanted from Intel and short-selling what might actually be the Truth for "audience appeal", similar to the stock market short sellers surrounding 9/11. Please keep in mind when considering the No Planes line of research and investigation that there are strong motives for Inside Job perps to not demolish planes they could profit from in the black market. Intact, they could even be used for their plans of extraordinary rendition. Parted out, they could have dual use purposes for guided missle technology and Boeing has a history if trafficking in those parts more than 100 times. The No Planes scenario is so far from a k00k theory that some people suspiciously seem to be working in overdrive to turn heads away from that direction so they can escape. Nice talking to ya, wise one. :) See ya next time.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#950. To: All (#908)
#951. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#899)
Just a link in the chain, maybe...
Remarks as Delivered by Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, The Pentagon , Monday, September 10, 2001
The technology revolution has transformed organizations across the private sector, but not ours, not fully, not yet. We are, as they say, tangled in our anchor chain. Our financial systems are decades old. According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions.
.
Let me conclude with this note. Some may ask, defensively so, will this war on bureaucracy succeed where others have failed? To that I offer three replies. First is the acknowledgement, indeed this caution: Change is hard. It's hard for some to bear, and it's hard for all of us to achieve.
.
Finally, this effort will succeed because it must. We really have no choice. It is not, in the end, about business practices, nor is the goal to improve figures on the bottom line. It's really about the security of the United States of America. And let there be no mistake, it is a matter of life and death. Our job is defending America, and if we cannot change the way we do business, then we cannot do our job well, and we must. So today we declare war on bureaucracy, not people, but processes, a campaign to shift Pentagon resources from the tail to the tooth. All hands will be required, and it will take the best of all of us.
#952. To: All (#951)
Brady Bond issue info at Post #479
Brady Bonds are named after former U.S. Treasury Secretary Nicholas Brady
finance.yahoo.com › Education Center › Bond
www.forbes.com/.../brady-bonds-fed-opinions-contributors- geithner.html :
www.theantech amber.net/V_K.../TexasTwoStep7.html :
#953. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker (#17)
(Edited)
Me: What satelite phones with noise filters? I don't understand your next question about sotto voce. There were places in the alleged phone call recordings without anyone speaking and no engine-noise heard. And the Right Here link you posted to me is the very same NTSB pdf footnote link I posted to you from your Wikipedia page reference for Flight 77 that had nothing in it at all about 40 hours and 11 flights prior to 9/11 on the FDR.
#954. To: Original_Intent (#886)
(Edited)
#955. To: GreyLmist, buckeroo, turtle (#953)
(Edited)
(B) Whether verifiable evidence supporting CT's exists, not arm waving generalizations and selective editings of evidence used elsewhere.
no coughing or panicked passenger sounds are heard. Also, B.Ong doesn't identify hijackers on the recording or their seat numbers. Any info of that comes from the unreliable witness, Nydia Gonzalez at Reservations, who calls them "gents"
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#956. To: GreyLmist (#950)
(Edited)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#957. To: HOUNDDAWG (#920)
buck bears the scars from his honorable service in Vietnam. Not only has he earned the right to write what he feels but, I will always respect him even as we disagree.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#958. To: GreyLmist (#951)
#959. To: AGAviator, GreyLmist (#956)
So the men getting off the bus are likely medics. Young, fit, carrying large bags with lots of equipment in them, heading to the action.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#960. To: GreyLmist (#954)
#961. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, christine, jethro tull, former lurker, eric stratton, itsalmosttolate, abraxass (#960)
#962. To: A K A Stone (#961)
#963. To: Original_Intent (#962)
#964. To: Original_Intent (#962)
#965. To: FormerLurker (#959)
(Edited)
Medics in suits? Yeah right...
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#966. To: AGAviator (#965)
WTF are these people, in my photo, heading to the action?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#967. To: FormerLurker (#966)
The guys in suits getting off the bus look very similar to the ones picking up debris
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#968. To: buckeroo, Dakmar, christine, James_Deffenbach, Original_Intent, abraxas, farmfriend (#928)
Poor bucky, memorized all the answers but never understood the questions...
#969. To: FormerLurker, farmfriend, your_neighbor, Original_Intent, Lod, wudidiz, christine, buckeroo, abraxas, James Deffenbach, (#941)
I always used to respect buck, even when he was totally off the wall. Lately, I've lost that respect.
#970. To: FormerLurker, farmfriend, your_neighbor, Original_Intent, Lod, wudidiz, christine, buckeroo, abraxas, James Deffenbach (#943)
Bush fought, opposed, stonewalled having a 911 commission for over a year. When they did he tried to stack it with Henry, CFR/Bilderberger, bloody handed monster, Kissinger in charge. When that didn't fly the committee he stonewalled having was stonewalled to the point that the chairman of the Commission and the Vice-Chair repudiated their own commission's report publicly.
#971. To: A K A Stone (#961)
#972. To: HOUNDDAWG (#968)
Either way, you and your heaping piles of lame insults in response to points which you're incapable of answering don't deserve any more well reasoned responses.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#973. To: HOUNDDAWG, *Post of the Day* (#968)
#974. To: christine, HOUNDDAWG (#973)
#975. To: Eric Stratton (#971)
#976. To: James Deffenbach (#972)
#977. To: christine, Eric Stratton (#973)
#978. To: HOUNDDAWG (#977)
#979. To: Original_Intent (#975)
#980. To: Original_Intent (#442)
#981. To: Eric Stratton, Original_Intent (#980)
the 32 videos confiscated and hidden by the FBI the afternoon of 911 (How did they know where ALL the videos were just hours after the event?)
#982. To: GreyLmist (#981)
#983. To: AGAviator (#956)
So the men getting off the bus are likely medics. Young, fit, carrying large bags with lots of equipment in them, heading to the action.
#984. To: AGAviator (#955)
(Edited)
Like expecting someone making a call during a life and death crisis to make statements you won't find something to nit pick apart 8 years after it's made.
#985. To: FormerLurker, All (#953)
(Edited)
FormerLurker, I flagged you to this to ask if you could locate a pic I think you posted and commented on -- a man picking up debris at the Pentagon where you mentioned his shoes, iirc.
#986. To: GreyLmist (#985)
#987. To: Eric Stratton (#982)
According to the CITGO station owner they just came and took it w/o warrant.
#988. To: Original_Intent (#986)
#989. To: Original_Intent (#886)
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