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Title: The 9/11 conspiracy plots thicken
Source:
Seattle Times
URL Source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht ... /2003250424_911conspire09.html
Published: Sep 09, 2006
Author: Michael Powell, wapo
Post Date: 2010-07-19 22:23:35 by Dakmar
Keywords: None
Views: 21811
Comments: 989
They are politically diverse and include academics, ex-officials and Web surfers. All share a belief that the Bush administration played a role in the 9/11 attacks. Their numbers seem to speak to Americans' innate distrust of their government. The Washington Post NEW YORK — He felt no shiver of doubt in those first terrible hours. He watched the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and assumed al-Qaida had wreaked terrible vengeance. He listened to anchors and military experts and assumed the facts of Sept. 11, 2001, were as stated on the screen. It was a year before David Ray Griffin, an eminent liberal theologian and philosopher, began his stroll down the path of disbelief. He wondered why Bush listened to a child's story while the nation was attacked and how Osama bin Laden, America's Public Enemy No. 1, escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora. He wondered why 110-story towers crashed and military jets failed to intercept even one airliner. He read the 9/11 Commission report with a swell of anger. Contradictions were ignored and no military or civilian official was reprimanded, much less cashiered. "To me, the report read as a cartoon," Griffin said. "It's a much greater stretch to accept the official conspiracy story than to consider the alternatives." Such as? "There was massive complicity in this attack by U.S. government operatives." If that feels like a skip off the cliff of established reality, more Americans are in free fall than you might guess. There are few more startling measures of American distrust of leaders than the extent of belief that the Bush administration had a hand in the attacks of Sept. 11 to spark an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. 36 percent suspicious A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon. Distrust percolates more strongly near Ground Zero. A Zogby International poll of New York City residents two years ago found 49.3 percent believed the government "consciously failed to act." Establishment assessments of the believers tend toward the psychotherapeutic. Many academics, politicians and thinkers left, right and center say the conspiracy theories are a case of one plus one equals five. It's a piling up of improbabilities. Thomas Eager, a professor of materials science at MIT, has studied the collapse of the twin towers. "At first, I thought it was amazing that the buildings would come down in their own footprints," Eager says. "Then I realized that it wasn't that amazing — it's the only way a building that weighs a million tons and is 95 percent air can come down." But the chatter out there is loud enough for the National Institute of Standards and Technology to post a Web "fact sheet" poking holes in the conspiracy theories and defending its report on the towers. Motley crew The loose agglomeration known as the "9/11 Truth Movement" has stopped looking for truth from the government. A cacophonous and free-range a bunch of conspiracists, they produce hip-hop inflected documentaries and scholarly conferences. The Web is their mother lode. Every citizen is a researcher. Did you see that the CIA met with bin Laden in a hospital room in Dubai? Check out this Pakistani site; there are really weird doings in Baluchistan ... Peter Knight, senior lecturer in American studies at the University of Manchester and editor of the 2002 book "Conspiracy Nation: The Politics of Paranoia in Postwar America," called the movement "a strange beast, an amalgam of elements. You've got the anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war crowd — you know, if they lied about the war, maybe they lied about 9/11. Another part is people merely interested in the anomalies, with no preconceived political agenda. "Then you have the more traditional right-wing conspiracy part of the continuum that believes a vast cabal has taken over the United States, the mega-conspiracy of the right's new world order. To them, all of these things are connected. Each group inserts 9/11 into its pre-existing conspiracy model." The academic wing is led by Griffin, who founded the Center for a Postmodern World at Claremont University; James Fetzer, a tenured philosopher at the University of Minnesota; and Daniel Orr, retired chairman of the economics department at the University of Illinois. Professor suspended The movement's de facto minister of engineering is Steven Jones, a tenured physics professor at Brigham Young University who has studied vectors and velocities and tested explosives and concluded that the collapse of the twin towers is best explained as controlled demolition, sped by a thousand pounds of high-grade thermite. Jones has been placed on paid leave while the Mormon-church-owned school investigates his claims, it was announced Friday. The physicist published his views two weeks ago in the book "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out." Former Reagan aide Barbara Honegger is a senior military-affairs journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School in California. She's convinced, based on her freelance research, that a bomb went off about six minutes before an airplane hit the Pentagon — or didn't hit it, as some believe the case may be. Then there's Morgan O. Reynolds, appointed by George W. Bush as chief economist at the Labor Department. He left in 2002 and doesn't think much of his former boss. "Who did it? Elements of our government and M-16 and the Mossad. The government's case is a laugh-out-loud proposition. They used patsies and lies and subterfuge and there's no way that Bush and Cheney could have invaded Iraq without the help of 9/11," Reynolds asserts. They are cantankerous and sometimes distrust each other — who knows where the double agents lurk? But unreasonable questions resonate with the reasonable. Colleen Kelly's brother, a salesman, had breakfast at the Windows on the World restaurant on Sept. 11. After he died she founded September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows to oppose the Iraq war. She lives in the Bronx and gives a gingerly embrace to the conspiracy crowd. "Sometimes I listen to them and I think that's sooooo outlandish and bizarre," she says. "But that day had such disastrous geopolitical consequences. If David Ray Griffin asks uncomfortable questions and points out painful discrepancies, good for him." Griffin's book, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11," sold more than 100,000 copies and became a movement founding stone. Last year he traveled through New England, giving speeches. One evening in West Hartford, Conn., 400 mostly middle-aged and upper-middle-class doctors and lawyers, teachers and social workers sat waiting. Griffin took the podium and laid down his ideas with calm and cool. He concluded: "It is already possible to know beyond a reasonable doubt one very important thing: The destruction of the World Trade Center was an inside job, orchestrated by domestic terrorists. The welfare of our republic and perhaps even the survival of our civilization depend on getting the truth about 9/11 exposed." The audience rose and applauded for more than a minute. No patience Chip Berlet, senior analyst at Political Research Associates, a Boston-based left-leaning think tank, is no fan of the 9/11 Commission. He believes a serious investigation should have led to indictments and the firing of incompetent generals and civilian officials. But he has no patience with the conspiracy theorists. "They don't do their homework; it's a kind of charlatanism," says Berlet. "They say there's no debris on the lawn in front of the Pentagon, but they base their analysis on a photo on the Internet. That's like analyzing an impressionist painting by looking at a postcard. "I love 'The X-Files' but I don't base my research on it. My vision of hell is having to review these [conspiracy] books over and over again." In the days after Sept. 11, experts claimed temperatures reached 2,000 degrees on the upper floors. Others claimed steel melted. Nope. What happened, says Eager, the MIT materials-science professor, is that jet fuel sloshed around and beams got rubbery. "It's not too much to think that you could have some regions at 900 degrees and others at 1,200 degrees, and that will distort the beams." The truth movement doesn't really care for Eager. A Web site casts a fisheye of suspicion at the professor and his colleagues. "Did the MIT have prior knowledge?" notes one chat room. "This is for sure another speculative topic ... " Professsor Jones' suspension was reported Friday by The Associated Press. Peter Knight was quoted by McClatchy Newspapers.
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#360. To: FormerLurker (#355)
(Edited)
Scattered all over the crash site, as one would expect. 911 Debunked - Pentagon Flight 77 Photo Evidence ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ah, the fall back position. If...if...if...Prove it...prove it....prove it. All VORTACS work the same. You get the frequencies from about a dozen different places including charts, and you type in the frequencies and adjust the heading in all of 5 seconds.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The wing of a remote controlled model airplane would leave the tiny six inch hole in the window that this Italian Blogger has opted to put so much emphasis upon, not the wing of a 757.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Your link doesn't work.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Works for me http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80746575/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The plane had wings and rudders as well, doesn't mean any old person can hop into the cockpit and know how to use them. That was my point.
Where's all the fire damage from the jet fuel in the front of the Pentagon? Oh that's right, there wasn't much fire there, so the fuel must have magically disappeared.
He lives with his wife and son in Laguna Hills, CA. and may be reached at nila@omnicomltd.com The email for nila@omnicomltd.com does not work. Hmmmm, false flag op?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wings and rudder controls work the same for all aircraft. There are lots of simulator programs you can verify that for yourself. That's why you get a license for an aircraft type, not a particular model.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wings and rudder controls work the same for all aircraft. There are lots of simulator programs you can verify that for yourself. That's why you get a license for an aircraft type, not a particular model. And Hanjour/Hanjoor's well known inability, and inexperience, to properly operate them is why he didn't have a license for this type. So, we've traveled around the Fruit Loop and are back at Hani Hanjour/Hanjoor SUPER PILOT. At least your fairy tales are amusingly consistent.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Yup, no fires and no fire engines either. That's the ticket ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where's your proof of the Mother of All Conspiracies Bean Counters being so intractible they had to be executed en masse to keep them from going off reservation, Half_Truther_Change_the_Subject? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmmmm, false flag op? The article was written years ago, so his address could have changed since then. Have you tried searching for his name?
Where's the fire damage in the EARLIER pictures you posted, such as this one? Hanjour couldn't work the wings and rudder of a Cessna 172 single engine plane very well, yet he was able to fly a 757 like an ace pilot, yeah right.
Attaboy! If you can't win the argument try and misrepresent something out of context while goading your opponent. It might work on someone so keep it up. You'll find a sucker to buy it yet. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
He didn't fly like an ace pilot. He barely hit his target at all, as I have repeatedly stated.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Answer the questions like you expect others to, windbag. Where's your proof of the Mother of All Conspiracies Bean Counters being so intractible they had to be executed en masse to keep them from going off reservation, Half_Truther_Change_the_Subject? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why don't you dance for us? "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Fires appear not to have consistently reached that high. Not really relevant. Something made a big gash in the exterior, and it couldn't have been a missile.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't change the subject, Half Truther. Provide proof of your claims, not trolling. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Excellent post, what it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. That is a puzzler. They apparently only had enough of the Magickal Jet Fuel™ for the ones that hit the twin towers and not for the one that they claim hit the Pentagon. Surely it would have fallen into a pile of dust too. I'm glad there was such a limited amount of that. Another 100,000 gallons of it would probably destroy most of the buildings in America.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Hanjour had a 1999 certificate for a commercial pilot, and presumably for a single engine which regs at the time said was needed to qualify for the commercial pilot certificate. Now where's your proof of the Mother of All Conspiracy Bean Counters needing to be executed by a 911 Pentagon crash. Who were they. How many. What happened to the evidence. Who was willing to listen to them in the first place. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Poor Aviator he got spanked and now it's just eating at him. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
either they think every one is as stupid as they are or they reap a real or perceived benefit. with AGovshill I see the latter, always sticking to the versed script whereas bucky is just willfully ignorant.
Not relevant? The fire is INSIDE the building, not the OUTSIDE, which would be the case if thousands of gallons of jet fuel splashed all over the outside wall, which it WOULD have done if the wing of a 757 hit it.
one could get the impression that AGovshill's situation in the aviation industry is akin to hanjour/hanjoor's, a non-English speaking goofenheimer who can't make it past learners permit because of a lack of over all flying skill. maybe some ABC agency offered to pull some strings if he'd just do them a little favor which only required him to stick to a versed script.
Changing the subject again, Half Truther. Produce the evidence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The 757 engines are suspended from pylons several feet below the wings. The wings getting ground up hitting the wall, does not equal jet engines and fuselage not making holes in the wall lower down on 1st floor. A fuselage and jet engines going into the building over 400 mph creates a substantial vacuum behind them, which pulled the fuel fireball into the backdraft and into the building. And none of these objections furthers the cause of "therefore we must conclude a missile or means unknown caused the impact - not a 757 which was reported missing and had scores of passangers who died at the crash scene, and were identified by forensic DNA." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Interesting graphic. Is the original in finger paint or crayon?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
The air traffic controllers thought it was a military fighter jet when they picked up the alleged Flight 77 on radar, due to the manner in which the plane was flown. Not only could Hanjour NOT have flown it that way, but whoever WAS flying it could have easily inflicted MUCH more damage than what was actually done. All the pilot had to do is dive into the Pentagon, the plane was already on a course to hit the side of the building containing Rumsfeld's office along with those of top brass. Hitting the roof would have caused widespread damage, and enfulfed the entire building in flames. The target was the size of 22 football fields with that approach, and would have been MUCH easier and effective than performing precision manuevers to turn the plane towards the LEAST occupied part of the building and hitting a 71 foot vertical wall precisely at the ground level.
With your idiotic conspiracy clown graphics, you're really coming across as a person who has NOTHING on his side in the way of truth, and who resorts to posting really stupid images which you hope will make us look stupid, but it's YOU who comes across as being stupid for resorting to those cheap shots.
Where did the wing and its engine pass through in the image below? That blue section certainly won't fit a wing, and since the FUEL is stored IN the wing, if the wing had disintegrated outside the building, the FUEL would ALSO be outside the building. There IS no wing damage visible, so you truly ARE grasping at straws here, and actually confirm that a 757 DID NOT hit the Pentagon on 9/11/2001. Well, even he admitted he didn't have a clue. One of the few honest things he has said in some time I suppose.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. true, true.
the motto of the liar movement "all hail the tale!"
Numerous 757 parts including landing gear, parts of APU's, fuselage aluminum in the AA paint scheme, jet engine parts, and landing wheel pieces were found both inside and outside the building, frequently scorched, and broken into pieces. Including, ahem, the charred cockpit voice recorder and flight instrument recorder cited by you know whoooo. Crashes involving 450 mph aircraft crashing into buildings don't happen that frequently, and nattering over minutiae of how something ended up where it did, when it was propelled by huge impact, fuel explosion, and kinetic energy forces, does not in any way lead to the conclusion "Therefore it had to have been a missile."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After 8 years going on 9, none of you Tw00fers is any closer to producing your own evidence or your own scenario than you were in September 2001. All any of you can do is natter and pick at existing theories, arm wave, selectively choose excerpts from existing evidence, while ignoring the parts that contradict your position, and eventually settle into personal attacks and cultism. Since in the American system the accusers must prove their charges beyond a reasonable doubt, and you cannot do this, the best possible outcome you can hope for is the conclusion "We need more information." So go get it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh some sort of aircraft struck the Pentagon, and some debris was "found" inside the Pentagon (who knows what sort of "construction" was really going on, I mean, they could have been placing those parts in there at that time). BUT, there is NO wing damage visible where the wing is alleged to have entered the Pentagon, and there is NO fuel fire where the wing is claimed to have impacted, so there COULD NOT HAVE BEEN A WING from a 757 that hit that building.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestUh huh. Where are the engines and wings then?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#361. To: FormerLurker (#357)
And again, just because the aircraft DID have navigational aids and computers does NOT been he knew how to use them
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#362. To: AGAviator (#356)
A wing does that.
#363. To: AGAviator (#360)
(Edited)
#364. To: abraxas (#363)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#365. To: AGAviator (#361)
Ah, the fall back position. If...if...if...Prove it...prove it....prove it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#366. To: AGAviator (#360)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#367. To: FormerLurker (#331)
About the Author: Nila Sagadevan was born in Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) and educated in Britain. A former commercial pilot, he holds a degree in aeronautical engineering from the University of Edinburgh and works as a communications consultant.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#368. To: FormerLurker (#365)
The plane had wings and rudders as well, doesn't mean any old person can hop into the cockpit and know how to use them
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#369. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, abraxas, all (#368)
The plane had wings and rudders as well, doesn't mean any old person can hop into the cockpit and know how to use them
#370. To: FormerLurker (#366)
(Edited)
Where's all the fire damage from the jet fuel in the front of the Pentagon? Oh that's right, there wasn't much fire there, so the fuel must have magically disappeared.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#371. To: Original_Intent (#369)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#372. To: AGAviator (#367)
The email for nila@omnicomltd.com does not work.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#373. To: AGAviator (#370)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#374. To: AGAviator (#368)
Wings and rudder controls work the same for all aircraft. There are lots of simulator programs you can verify that for yourself. That's why you get a license for an aircraft type, not a particular model.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#375. To: AGAviator (#371)
#376. To: FormerLurker (#374)
Hanjour couldn't work the wings and rudder of a Cessna 172 single engine plane very well, yet he was able to fly a 757 like an ace pilot, yeah right
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#377. To: Original_Intent (#375)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#378. To: AGAviator (#377)
#379. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#373)
Where's the fire damage in the EARLIER pictures
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#380. To: Original_Indent, buckeroo, turtle (#378)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#381. To: wudidiz (#322)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#382. To: FormerLurker (#358)
There IS no fire damage there, not the sort of fire damage that would occur from thousands of gallons of jet fuel at least...
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#383. To: Original_Intent (#369)
And Hanjour/Hanjoor's well known inability, and inexperience, to properly operate them is why he didn't have a license for this type.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#384. To: AGAviator (#383)
#385. To: FormerLurker (#283)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#386. To: AGAviator, buckeroo, Original_Intent, ALL (#379)
Fires appear not to have consistently reached that high. Not really relevant. Something made a big gash in the exterior, and it couldn't have been a missile.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#387. To: Original_Intent (#301)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#388. To: Original_Indent (#384)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#389. To: FormerLurker (#386)
The fire is INSIDE the building, not the OUTSIDE, which would be the case if thousands of gallons of jet fuel splashed all over the outside wall, which it WOULD have done if the wing of a 757 hit it.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#390. To: AGAviator (#388)
#391. To: AGAviator (#376)
He didn't fly like an ace pilot. He barely hit his target at all, as I have repeatedly stated.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#392. To: AGAviator (#388)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#393. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, James Deffenbach, ALL (#389)
A fuselage and jet engines going into the building over 400 mph creates a substantial vacuum behind them,
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#394. To: IRTorqued (#385)
whereas bucky is just willfully ignorant.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#395. To: James Deffenbach (#394)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#396. To: FormerLurker (#393)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#397. To: FormerLurker (#393)
(Edited)
Actually confirm that a 757 DID NOT hit the Pentagon on 9/11/2001.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#398. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#392)
but it's YOU who comes across as being stupid for resorting to those cheap shots.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#399. To: AGAviator (#397)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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