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Title: More Rich Americans Renounce U.S. Citizenship for Lower Taxes
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URL Source: http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/t ... ship-for-lower-taxes/19560160/
Published: Jul 24, 2010
Author: JONATHAN BERR
Post Date: 2010-07-24 14:57:31 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 296
Comments: 22
More Americans are renouncing U.S. citizenship for tax reasons. A U.S.-born resident of Ireland recently came into some money after he and his wife sold a farm they inherited from her parents. Instead of enjoying his windfall, the man is furious at the Internal Revenue Service for penalizing him for running afoul of the agency's confusing regulations regarding the reporting of income from foreign bank accounts. He is so mad, according to his attorney, Jane Bruno, that he's considering renouncing his U.S. citizenship. While such a move is drastic, it's also becoming increasingly common. In fact, so many people are eager to renounce their U.S. citizenship for tax reasons, that in some U.S. embassies there's a waiting list to escape from the clutches of Uncle Sam. Part of the reason for the rising interest in renunciation is burdensome rules like the one about foreign accounts designed to catch people who use quitting their citizenship as a way to illegally duck their tax obligations, says Bruno, who is based in Palm Beach Gardens, Fla. The Irish resident, whom she declined to name, was slapped with a penalty of several thousand dollars. "These penalties that they came up with are oversized when compared to the misdeeds that were committed," Bruno says. Triple the Number in a Year As many as 743 people with American citizenship or legal resident status renounced their U.S. citizenship in 2009 -- three times as many as in 2008 -- which resulted in a waiting list for people to say farewell to the red, white and blue at the U.S. Embassy in London, according to the Financial Times. That represents a tiny fraction of the 7 million or so Americans living abroad, but does underscore the growing unease about the Obama administration's taxation policies among the wealthy, according to experts. Many of those leaving the U.S. behind have dual nationality and may not have lived in the country for years. Others have lived overseas for so long that America no longer feels like home. As Bruno points out, rescinding American citizenship is something not to be taken lightly. Not only do you lose the protection of the U.S. government, but the financial benefits don't kick in for several years. In fact, a former U.S. citizen is required to file tax returns to the IRS for several years after giving up citizenship. "Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations," according to the U.S. State Department's website. "In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship will not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as United States citizens abroad." The Wealthy Have Been Quitting for Years Wealthy people have been quitting their American citizenship for tax reasons for years. Tennessee-born mutual fund investor John Templeton did it in 1968. He died in 2008 in the Bahamas at the age of 95. John Dorrance III, grandson of the founder of Campbell Soup (CPB), quit being an American, as did members of the Getty Family. Companies including Tyco (TYC) and Transocean (RIG) have done the same thing. Some worry whether the newest crackdown will encourage more taxpayers to quit the U.S. "U.S. citizens are in a uniquely horrible position as expatriates, wherever they reside, since the U.S. is just about the only major nation which taxes its citizens regardless of their residential status," according to Tax-News.com. The crackdown on wealthy taxpayers is continuing. In April, IRS Enforcement Chief Steve Miller told members of Congress that tax revenue continues to be lost to offshore loopholes despite efforts to shut them down. Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus urged the IRS to be more vigilant. That may wind up driving more wealthy Americans overseas. David Lesperance, a Canadian attorney, says he has seen a seven- or eightfold increase in cases of people looking to renounced their U.S. citizenship. The advantages of doing so are too great to pass up for financial and personal reasons such as divorce. "They are not bound to a particular location to maintain their wealth," Lesperance says, adding that many people have found they can recreate their lifestyle abroad, and in some cases -- heaven forbid -- improve it. Wealthy expatriates know that "government at all levels are going to need money" and that "things are not going to get better for us." See full article from DailyFinance: http://srph.it/a9qt0m
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#1. To: Ada (#0)
expect the lines to get longer
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
That ain't the only reason. They know what's coming down the road and actually leaving to save their hide. They know when TSHTF that the masses are going to go looking for money, food, and anything of value just to survive. That great big hascinda high on the hill or behind the closed walls and gate belongs to the wealthy and that is where the masses will be going for the necessities of survival. Those multi million dollar homes and the residents from within, built with money stolen from the poor will be the first targets. My dad always told me that if the rich don't take care of the poor, someday the poor will take care of the rich. You rich people better give my remarks some thought. I hear people talking all the time about taking what they need for survival. I don't envy the rich, I pity them. Their heaven on earth just might come crashing down.
Rules have been changed so that citizens that renounce are deemed liable for taxes for the next 10 years. It's absolutely pathetic. The USA is now a place where they want to force you to stay, and it's all about money. I can't possibly see how taxing citizens that renounced can be legal. I guess taxation without representation is back in style, since citizens that renounce certainly can't vote (as though that would make a difference). Next: Barbed wire, mine fields and guard towers surrounding the land of the free, which admits it's no longer an attractive place to live.
Oh, and word I get is that renouncing isn't easy at all. You apply to the embassy, pay hundreds of bux, fill out forms and get interviewed. Then, if the embassy decides to, they accept your renouncing. More often though, they refuse it, and then you can apply again, pay again, and be refused again. I hear some people have to apply 4-5 times before their renouncing is "accepted". And if they think you're renouncing for tax reasons, then penalties kick in. It's really amazing just how blatant it is.
It's easier to stay here and throw the criminals out of office. Perhaps even put them behind bars. There is going to be a very large segment of the population interested in doing that, for a change.
I wouldn't mind living in Scotland or Ireland.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
I have seen that very thing advocated by anti-immigration people (LP's own RWTB comes to mind), as well as national id cards. While I am against illegal immigration, I do not believe it wise to demand that the government build a wall with Barbed wire, mine fields and guard towers. They just might do it and turn it into our own Berlin Wall. I remember many years ago arguing with that retired navy seal and author (can't remember his name now) that used to post at LP over this very point. IIRC he called me a liberal. Sometimes people's views can become so myopic that they are unable or unwilling to see the potential consequences of what they are demanding. I'm sure I'm no different though.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi
If it were easy, we would have done it already.
ameriKan citizenship is the worst one to have in the whole world...not to mention carrying an ameriKan passport makes you an immediate target almost everywhere you go in the world.
Were the measures actually taken to prevent the very real invasion [by REAL America- firsters as opposed to the Traitors and Foreign Agents that took control through a 'Central Bank' (privately owned and operated using a fiat currency paper money scam) since before most of us were born], then a people that control their government (and don't indeed fear their 'government') are more safe. Now, the measures being taken will indeed be used to keep certain people from leaving...and that number will be large as it's growing compoundingly by the day. Instead of a Freedom Wall, it's a Berlin Wall. But then again, we're dealing with World Communists, not real Americans. Sheeple, sheeple, sheeple. Too dumbed down, self-interested and morally-reduced to save the Republic at this point. imo
That's my believe. Once the government figures out other ways of sneaking drugs into the country it will give them exactly what they are screaming for and then there will be moaning and gnashing of teeth when that wall is used against us.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi
Actually, if history is a guide, the poor (read, city people) will riot against each other, perpetrate horrible violence against each other, disrupt all supply lines that might be of benefit, and in rages of violent hunger, eventually end up devouring each other or simply dying. The "poor" in the country, generally a far higher quality of person than the "masses" of inner city poor, will plant a garden and hunt a bit more than usual. The "rich" (aka anybody making any decent amount of money) probably aren't living inside the city proper to begin with (excepting some big whigs in high rises). Most of us (I include myself in the category, because you progressives are so keen to call anybody who makes two bucks over minimum wage "rich") live far outside big city limits. And most of us are quite well armed, thank you very much. This country has been "taking care of the poor" the last hundred years, and every year we go further and further into debt and decline, both monetarily and morally. Being poor at one time meant you lived on meager means, but could step up and make something of yourself. Now, more often than not, it means you're an entitlement demanding "you better feed me!" twit. That kind can't cannibalize fast enough as far as I'm concerned. There will be no "eat the rich" groove to get on, I'm afraid. Y'all will be far too busy undermining each other and never figuring out how to cooperate to peacefully recover. Just the way it goes, with the uneducated, lame minded, lazy and devious I suppose.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
Though I am of Scottish descent (and English), I'd say Ireland is the better option of the two. The remaining Scots in Scotland after the bulk fled to Canada, the US and Australia, have been working overtime to turn their beautiful land into a rather preening dystopia. It's a beautiful nation, with wonderfully nice people, but economically they'll eat you alive. Most of the people I've met from there have under the table cash only businesses, just to get by. Ireland on the other hand is filled with young, educated folks who actually like capitalism.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
During the civil war and after there were scavangers that wiped out quite a few rich folks. History will repeat itself when TSHTF. They just might burn down those highrise townhouses in the city. Yeah! Those poor rioted against the British, not each other in the revolutionary war. All that is lacking is someone to fire them up and lead them. As for you rich people as you call yourself, you are widely scattered out tgere in the country. There will be no one to come to your aid when all hell breaks loose. Remember, they all have cell phones and will be armed also. There will be hell to pay when the economy finally tanks. When rhose babies start to die off and cry from empty bellies, they will be a coming your way. Those million dollar homes will attract them like a magnet. How in the hell do you know my financial standing and background. Poor thinking on your part. I have no bills whatsoever, a paid off modest home that I had built in 1971 and a nice retirement. Far too many don't have a snowballs chance in hell to earn enough to ever achive even what I have. The rich have destroyed the economy andhave seen to it that the American Dream is dead(gone) with the exodus of all the jobs that paid a living wage. Apparently you never heard Ross Perot claiming there will be a large sucking sound when NAFTA was passed and jobs were sent offshore by the rich. The older folks won't have a chance against the youth when they get angrt. All they lack is a leader and I'm convienced somewhere out there ther is a leader that will appear to lead them when the time is ripe. Some of you rich , as you call your self, will survive. Many others will escaped abroad, and the rest of you will wish you were one of the poor. Of course we'll have to wait and see whether you are right or I am right. Either way, things will be coming to a head and it is going to be most frightening and terrible.
Ah, ignorant of history I see. When "the poor" revolt, it's normally against themselves, the middle class and the rich combined. They're brute dumb on most issues and lack the ability to make reasoned distinctions. Hence, the guillotines of France and the rule of Jacobite totalitarians (and, the rule of communist terrorists in Russia after 1917). I don't. But I see that you're just salivating at the idea of human beings killing other human beings, in a most inhumane and cruel way, and you ally yourself with those you think will do the killing. Ergo, "y'all" means the fictional poor you reference, and supporters of them like yourself. Hope this clears things up for you. Actually, the political class has done that, if you follow facts instead of Progressive rhetoric. There are rich elitists, no question, who facilitated the current mess, every one of them to the last man connected at the hip to the politics and politicians who mandated this failure via law. The rich, the actual rich that make up this nation, for what its worth, pay the very largest share of taxes percentage wise, while the "poor" usually pay nothing and suck everything up as leeches. Yes yes, and lead them shoulder to shoulder in a glorious red march over the burning homes and bodies of the bourgeoisie capitalist pigs. Heard all this in college from kids and teachers who had more free time on their hands than they had brains. I don't call upper middle class rich, but I know you folks do, hence the label. I hope so. If the poor follow their normal historical role, the competent ones who fled will be able to return relatively unscathed and rebuild. Why would anybody wish that? "Gosh, I wish I didn't have enough means to feed my family or provide a home!" Huh? Angered or angry? Or is this a combination word? The older folks will be protected by a lot of younger folks actually, GenX, a predominatly little "L" libertarian group, is only in their early 40's, limber, warmed up and quite capable, thanks. I'm going to go with history on this one. The only huge uprising revolution that didn't emanate from the poor (but rather, from the middle and upper classes), made it without slaughtering in mindless rage, and that was the American revolution. What you're talking about has nothing to do with that kind of revolt. Of the two of us, I suspect I'm the only one who doesn't hope this comes to pass. Am I mistaken in my assumption?
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
Actually, the political class has done that, if you follow facts instead of Progressive rhetoric. There are rich elitists, no question, who facilitated the current mess, every one of them to the last man connected at the hip to the politics and politicians who mandated this failure via law. The rich, the actual rich that make up this nation, for what its worth, pay the very largest share of taxes percentage wise, while the "poor" usually pay nothing and suck everything up as leeches. It is the rich that has destroyed our economy. They finance the bulk of political campaigns, hence they own the very politicans that do their bidding. The rich got far more with the bailouts than all the rest of the people. The rich who are stockholders of corporations get billions in tax reductions and subsidies, and yet they keep crying wolf. I notice you completely ingored or failed to mention anything about corporate welfare. The cash for clunkers was a tremendous windfall for the auto giants. On the surface it was supposed to be up to $4,000 towards the purchase of a new vehicle if you traded in a gas guzzling clunker. The final tally was about $24,000 with the auto dealers and auto manufacturers pocketing the $20,000. Those buying the autos under the cash for clunkers didn't gain a damned thing, but ended up helping pay for those corporate dollars.r More corporate welfare! Why shouldn't the rich pay more in taxes percentage wise than the rest of us. The top 1% owns about 98% of all the wealth than the 99%, the rest of us. And much of that money they have is filthy lugar, blood money, much of it stolen by hook oor by crook. But you don't want to talk about that. Don't tell me I need to brush up on my history. Most of our Founding Fathers were wealthy men before the Revolutionary War started. Many by its end were dead or dead broke along with many members of their families. But it was the average joe bag of donuts who fought the battles just as we are seeing in Iraq and Afghanistan today. The grunt does the fighting and dying and if he/she is maimed for live corporate America who owns the politicans, renegs on taking care of them in most cases. Did you serve in the military? In combat? I don't wish any hardships find their way to your door, nor do I wish that you suffer a devastating harship where you lose everything. But it would most interesting to see what you would do, where you would turn if you were in a desperate situation where you lost everything. I'm sure you are one of those who would just lay down and die because receiving a helping hand is beneath your character and dignity. You claim the poor are too lazy and too dumb to achieve a decent living standard. I'll grant you that there are many who fall into that category. There really wasn't the need for you to stereotype all poor people as such. Without real opportunities to pull themselves up out of poverty, and with the rich out sourcing good jobs that pay a living wage, it is hard to advance oneself. If you can't understan this, then you aren't upper middle class, but upper class. Last but not least, this forum generally has articles posted that points out the destruction of our Constitution, our economy and the corruption of our politicans by the rich and powerful and what we need to do about it. Just yesterday, Cynicom made the remark that out right revolution is the only way this whole country can be saved. Most of us on here aren't here to hear Elitest bullshit. That appears to me what you are slinging.
Saying the same thing over and over and over again, doesn't make it true. Despite what Himmler told you. Some rich may have helped, but the political class did it, and to say "the rich" implies everybody that was rich, did it. False. Why should they? They give more to society as a whole simply by pursuing profit and making things, or helping finance things being made, than any couch lump six pack guzzling welfare recipient ever could. Tax the poor heavily, reduce taxes the more they earn, give them incentive to get a better job, I say, heh. ;) When you follow the first sentence with the next word quoted, that negates the preamble you were trying to pass off as genuine. Your memory is poor here, as it is with history in general. I grew up poor. Have mentioned it countless times on the forum, even to you directly. Sorry to burst your bubble kid. Actually, taking government stolen loot is beneath my character and dignity, thus, the correct action, and the one I took, was to suck up my pride, take "undesirable jobs" aka jobs that require lots of physical work, did a bang up job, got promotions, saved up money and eventually was able to put myself through college by my own means, no loans or scholarships. But I appreciate your concern for me and your thoughts that the only options are to become a welfare leech, or die. Oh? Show me where I said that please. My statement is that those who end up in the mindless rage "eat the rich" mindset, generally, are ignorant doofuses, idiots and stupid. I made concessions in my first post that there are levels of poor, the idiot "eat the rich" types you admire, and the better quality types who generally live out in the country. Fortunately, I didn't! Straw man, disassembled. You're welcome. :) Actually, quite true. Which is why I'm against the progressive income tax that you advocate for. The more money the entrepreneurs have, the more jobs they create. The more jobs they create, the more chance there is for poor people to get out of dire straights. There's nothing wrong with being upper class. You say that like its a bad thing. I'd be proud to be such. You don't get to define how others speak, kid. I know, you union types love to tell us what we can and can't say, but fortunately christine allows all speech, not just blue collar "working man" speech. Sorry. Unfortunately your memory appears to be rather poor and your assumptions, thus far, incorrect, so any judgments about what I appear to be saying from you are probably misplaced and incorrect.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
Just the way it goes, with the uneducated, lame minded, lazy and devious I suppose. How humorous. The more tax breaks the rich get, the more they have to bribe and buy the politicans and the more money they have to outsource good paying jobs. I guess the rich like a free lunchtoo. They love corporate welfare. Every time they get a bigger tax break, the average joe has to pay more taxes to make up for the lost tax revenue. You are a master at talking out both sides of your mouth. Anyone reading your replys can see that you put the blame on everyone but the rich. I don't advocate anyone, and I mean anyone getting a free ride. There simply is no way the poor,as a whole, will ever better their lot in life living on meager welfare, without there being good living wage jobs that the rich and their owned politicans have moved out of the country. Since you can't get a grip on this fact, further discussion with you is senseless. The rich and their politicans have ruined a good sound economy and ushered in the welfare state. You asked me to show me where you stated the poor were lazy. I guess you forgot already that you called them uneducated, lame minded, lazy, and devious on this very same thread; youranswer #12. You must have flunked comprehension when you were in college. Sounds like you and G W Bush have the same I.Q. By the way, the Rothchilds are looking for someone like you and I hear they pay really well.
I caught your ass telling a lie and you aren't man enough to admit it and you ask me to point it out to you and I did. You called the poor Uneducated and lazy in your reply #12 on this very thread. U could excuse you if you forgot and would have come back on and apologized. Since you aren't man enough, its the bozo for you. You are the son of liberty alright. All you prattle on about is being upper class and blaming the poor for being poor. That's like blaming someone for being born to poor parents. Stop and think how stupid you look to others, others even on this forum who might be struggling to survive the bad economy while you rich bastards want more and more. Are you going to make it to Heaven on being a decent human being, or are you going to try and buy your way in with a fist full of that filthy lugar? Forgive me but I don't see much of a human being when I read the crap you have been writing and having the gall to lie about it.
Of course I said many were stupid, ignorant and lazy (and admitted that some are of a better quality). Ah, but good sir, you said that because of those things, I said that they don't have a right to earn a decent living. I can't help but notice that you've not mentioned that part, and when pressed to show where I said that they were not allowed to earn a decent living, you fled. :) You can't out logic me guy, and your rhetoric skills are marginal at best. If I ask somebody "please, show me where I said that", rest assured that I've already ensured that I had not, in fact, said those things. Could somebody translate this into standard English for me please? I can't help but notice that, having cast out a lie, failed to support it, you now claim to put me on bozo. Well, that's ok, it's kind of standard fare for your kind. :) Actually I prattle on about being upper middle class. I thought this was clear. And most poor should be blamed for being poor (most, not all). Ultimately we all suffer the consequences of our choices in life. Rare is the good man who is down through no fault of his own, and that kind of man might be cast into poverty, but his quality is such that he'll rise out of it again over time. The rest, frankly, I don't care a whit about. Why would I blame somebody put into the same lot in life as I was? Do you *bother* to read my posts, or are the words a bit too polysyllabic for your comprehension? Which has nothing to do with one's economic status, heh. What precisely is a "lugar"? Are we drifting into Español now? "Lucre" is the word you were searching for. Show me where I've lied. Oops, you cannot, and could not. That's why you put me on bozo. I'm certain that once your effeminate emotionalism cools down, you'll be forced through lack of self will to read my posts again. You silly guy you. :)
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
Why yes, it is, thank you! I suggest, no income tax for anybody, and slashing the social-welfare state with a thousand cuts until it lay dying on the sidewalk. The average Joe pays hardly anything, percentage wise, compared to the heavy lifters in the economy. Have you ever even *looked* at the tax system? Do not let your failure of comprehension lead you to believe, in your lumpen proletariat hubris, that said failure is due to the person speaking, and not the person on the receiving end of the message. I could talk in my native redneck to you, of course, but I figure, let's see you work your way up the intellectual ladder instead of everybody else having to stoop down to your level. Think of it as a challenge to better yourself! :) Ah, but good sir, you fail to grasp, that I make a distinction between "the elite" and "the rich", and further, I don't make the reflexive Marxist mistake that you so commonly make of blaming everything bad in life on those who make more money than I do. Here's something, and it may be alien to you since it's an American concept, how about starting your own company and paying what you feel is fair? Oh, wait, that would mean doing something besides whining wouldn't it? What you posit is an opinion, not a fact. Sorry. Bzzt, wrong. What I asked you to show me is where I stated that because most of the poor were ignorant and lazy, that somehow they should not be allowed to earn a decent living. Which, again I notice, you've retreated from through your, oh what should we call it, "lie of omission" maybe? heh Why no, I readily admit to that, never denied it. But again, you leave off the second clause of your claim. Methinks you realize your mistake but, like so many progressives, cannot make yourself admit error. C'est la vie. There are courses called "comprehension", as in only the word "comprehension", in college? Really? Are there no deviations, like "wide eyed" or "lack of" or what have you? Strange. Is that honestly all you have guy? Seriously? Take a deep breath, sit a while before hitting "Reply", and try to grasp what's being said. Let your rage go for a bit, realize that you have missed a lot in the posts, that you don't understand even what you asked me (which you've yet to demonstrate that I've claimed), and maybe, try something new and realize you made a mistake.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
In fact, so many people are eager to renounce their U.S. citizenship for tax reasons, that in some U.S. embassies there's a waiting list to escape from the clutches of Uncle Sam.
#2. To: Ada (#0)
Wealthy people have been quitting their American citizenship for tax reasons for years.
#3. To: Ada (#0)
#4. To: Ada (#0)
#5. To: Ada (#0)
#6. To: Ada (#0)
#7. To: Pinguinite (#3)
(Edited)
Next: Barbed wire, mine fields and guard towers surrounding the land of the free, which admits it's no longer an attractive place to live.
#8. To: ratcat (#5)
#9. To: Ada, 4 (#8)
I'm still waiting for the Freedom Ship project to get going -
#10. To: Ada (#0)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#11. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#7)
quislings must hang. punto
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#12. To: Rotara (#11)
Now, the measures being taken will indeed be used to keep certain people from leaving...and that number will be large as it's growing compoundingly by the day. Instead of a Freedom Wall, it's a Berlin Wall.
#13. To: LACUMO (#2)
#14. To: Turtle (#6)
#15. To: SonOfLiberty (#13)
There will be no "eat the rich" groove to get on, I'm afraid. Y'all will be far too busy undermining each other and never figuring out how to cooperate to peacefully recover. Just the way it goes, with the uneducated, lame minded, lazy and devious I suppose.
#16. To: LACUMO (#15)
(Edited)
How in the hell do you know my financial standing and background.
The rich have destroyed the economy
I'm convienced somewhere out there ther is a leader that will appear to lead them when the time is ripe.
Some of you rich , as you call your self, will survive.
Many others will escaped abroad,
and the rest of you will wish you were one of the poor.
The older folks won't have a chance against the youth when they get angrt.
Of course we'll have to wait and see whether you are right or I am right.
Either way, things will be coming to a head and it is going to be most frightening and terrible.
#17. To: SonOfLiberty, Cynicom (#16)
The rich have destroyed the economy
#18. To: LACUMO (#17)
(Edited)
It is the rich that has destroyed our economy.
Why shouldn't the rich pay more in taxes percentage wise than the rest of us.
I don't wish any hardships find their way to your door, nor do I wish that you suffer a devastating harship where you lose everything.
But
But it would most interesting to see what you would do, where you would turn if you were in a desperate situation where you lost everything.
I'm sure you are one of those who would just lay down and die because receiving a helping hand is beneath your character and dignity.
You claim the poor are too lazy and too dumb to achieve a decent living standard.
I'll grant you that there are many who fall into that category. There really wasn't the need for you to stereotype all poor people as such.
Without real opportunities to pull themselves up out of poverty, and with the rich out sourcing good jobs that pay a living wage, it is hard to advance oneself.
If you can't understan this, then you aren't upper middle class, but upper class.
Most of us on here aren't here to hear Elitest bullshit.
That appears to me what you are slinging.
#19. To: SonOfLiberty (#18)
Actually, quite true. Which is why I'm against the progressive income tax that you advocate for. The more money the entrepreneurs have, the more jobs they create. The more jobs they create, the more chance there is for poor people to get out of dire straights.
#20. To: SonOfLiberty (#18)
#21. To: LACUMO (#20)
I caught your ass telling a lie and you aren't man enough to admit it and you ask me to point it out to you and I did. You called the poor Uneducated and lazy in your reply #12 on this very thread.
U could excuse you if you forgot and would have come back on and apologized.
Since you aren't man enough, its the bozo for you.
All you prattle on about is being upper class and blaming the poor for being poor.
That's like blaming someone for being born to poor parents.
Are you going to make it to Heaven on being a decent human being,
or are you going to try and buy your way in with a fist full of that filthy lugar?
Forgive me but I don't see much of a human being when I read the crap you have been writing and having the gall to lie about it.
#22. To: LACUMO (#19)
How humorous.
The more tax breaks the rich get, the more they have to bribe and buy the politicans and the more money they have to outsource good paying jobs.
Every time they get a bigger tax break, the average joe has to pay more taxes to make up for the lost tax revenue.
You are a master at talking out both sides of your mouth.
Anyone reading your replys can see that you put the blame on everyone but the rich.
here simply is no way the poor,as a whole, will ever better their lot in life living on meager welfare, without there being good living wage jobs that the rich and their owned politicans have moved out of the country.
Since you can't get a grip on this fact, further discussion with you is senseless.
You asked me to show me where you stated the poor were lazy.
I guess you forgot already that you called them uneducated, lame minded, lazy, and devious on this very same thread; youranswer #12.
You must have flunked comprehension when you were in college.
Sounds like you and G W Bush have the same I.Q. By the way, the Rothchilds are looking for someone like you and I hear they pay really well.
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