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Title: WikiLeaks Reveals Al Qaeda Boss Was Seen at Village Meetings - Despite CIA Claims They Were Clueless
Source:
Daily Mail Online
URL Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art ... den-seen-village-meetings.html
Published: Jul 28, 2010
Author: Mail Foreign Service
Post Date: 2010-07-28 15:17:40 by AGAviator
Keywords: None
Views: 4560
Comments: 280
Glimpses of Bin Laden: Now WikiLeaks reveals Al Qaeda boss was seen at village meetings - despite CIA claims that they were clueless By Mail Foreign Service Last updated at 10:16 AM on 27th July 2010 Bin Laden spotted in meeting with Taliban chief in 2006 'Spotted': Among 91,000 leaked U.S. documents are claims that Osama Bin Laden was last seen in 2006 The claims are among 91,000 U.S. military records obtained by whistleblowing website WikiLeaks. Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, said last month that there have been no firm leads on Bin Laden's whereabouts since the 'early 2000s'. But a 'threat report' from the International Security Assistance Force regional command (north) on suicide bombers in August 2006 suggested Bin Laden had been attending regular meetings in villages on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. It said: 'Reportedly a high-level meeting was held where six suicide bombers were given orders for an operation in northern Afghanistan. These meetings take place once every month.' According to the Guardian, which has received the documents, the report went on: 'The top four people in these meetings are Mullah Omar [the Taliban leader], Osama Bin Laden, Mullah Dadullah and Mullah [Baradar].' If true, it could mean forces came close to having the opportunity to wipe out the senior leadership of the Afghan insurgency that has so far claimed the lives of 320 British soldiers. The war logs also show that Bin Laden had a hand in a plot to poison coalition forces by adding a powder to food and drink consumed by troops as they passed through villages. Toll: An Afghan girl in hospital in Helmand after being injured by coalition forces in an air strike in 2007 These documents also suggest coalition forces have killed hundreds of civilians in so-called 'blue on white' incidents which were never reported. The leak is said to be U.S. Army intelligence expert Bradley Manning, 22, who boasted he had downloaded hundreds of thousands of documents, according to computer hacker Adrian Lamo. The 22-year-old, pictured above, is said to have contacted Lamo out of the blue and then claimed he had saved high-security files onto CDs, ready to hand to Wikileaks, while pretending to listen to Lady Gaga. 'Hillary Clinton and several thousand diplomats around the world are going to have a heart attack when they wake up one morning and find an entire repository of classified foreign policy is available, in searchable format, to the public,' he apparently told Mr Lamo. The hacker got in touch with the U.S. military and later met with them in Starbucks to hand over a printout of his conversations with Manning. Manning has already been charged over a separate leak of a classified helicopter cockpit video earlier this month. It showed U.S. soldiers laughing as they gunned down Afghan civilians and two journalists in a firefight in Baghdad in 2007. He was picked up in Iraq, where he was working. Manning is said to be locked up in a military prison after being shipped across the border to Kuwait. He faces trial by court martial and, if found guilty, a heavy jail sentence. Mr Lamo believes Manning did not work alone, saying he did not have ‘the technological expertise’ to carry out the gathering and leaking of the documents. 'I believe somebody would have had to have been of assistance to him,’ he said. They include claims that 16 children were among those shot or bombed in error The leaked military logs also reveal how a secret 'black' unit of crack special forces hunt down Taliban leaders for 'kill or capture' without trial - and voice concerns that Pakistani intelligence and Iran are supporting the insurgents. Downing Street said it 'would lament all unauthorised releases of classified material' and the White House condemned the ' irresponsible' leak of the files. And military and intelligence experts warned yesterday that the leaks could imperil the lives of British forces in Afghanistan. Colonel Stuart Tootal, who in 2006 commanded 3rd Battalion Parachute Regiment in Helmand Province - where more than 320 UK soldiers have been killed - said the information 'could impact on the security of our soldiers'. He insisted Nato forces now put a 'huge emphasis' on avoiding civilian casualties. Tory MP Patrick Mercer, a former Army captain, said: 'Although much of this information is in the public domain, the details are particularly damaging to the credibility of the coalition. 'Our enemies will be quick to exploit the propaganda element of it. 'If there are details of operational matters - locations, equipment, troops movements, resources - then soldiers' lives could be placed at risk.' Details of the secret files, detailing military operations between 2004 and 2009, were published yesterday by the Guardian, New York times and Germany's Der Spiegel while more than 75,000 records were made available on the WikiLeaks website. The files list 144 incidents involving Afghan civilian casualties, in which 195 died and 174 were injured. They detail coalition forces - fearful of suicide bombers - shooting unarmed drivers and civilian motorcyclists, and record an incident when French troops opened fire at a bus full of children because it came too close to a military convoy. Other leaked documents record a U.S. patrol machine-gunning a bus, killing or wounding 15 passengers, and Polish troops mortaring a village, killing a wedding party including a pregnant woman. They reveal details of undercover operations by a U.S. special forces unit named task Force 373, formed to hunt down and kill or capture taliban and Al Qaeda commanders. According to Julian Assange, the founder of the website, the files contain details of 'thousands' of potential war crimes. At a press conference in London, he defended his decision to publish the files and claimed the high level of civilian casualties reported was in fact lower than the true figure because military personnel 'downplayed' the number or reported them as insurgent deaths. Mr Assange said: 'We have tried hard to make sure that this material does not put innocents at harm. 'All the material is over seven months old so it is of no current operational consequence, even though it may be of very significant investigative consequence. 'The revelation of abuse by the U.S. and coalition forces may cause Afghans to be upset, and rightly so. ‘If governments don't like populations being upset, they should treat them better, not conceal abuses.' Professor Malcolm Chalmers, a defence expert at the Royal United Services Institute think tank, said that the leaks could undermine already faltering public support for the war. Read more: Bin Laden Seen Village Meetings Poster Comment: There has never been any proof that Bin Laden has died or been killed. He has repeatedly been reported to be in a very rugged area surrounded by people fiercely loyal to him. OBL is not and has never been in direct command of operations. He sees himself as someone providing motivation and logistical support to people actually carrying out day to day operations.
Al Qaeda boss 'had hand' in plot to poison UK troops
Secret files claim British soldiers shot 16 children
Military experts: leaks could put our troops in peril
Taliban missile brought down Chinook helicopter Secret files leaked about the war in Afghanistan have revealed tantalising glimpses of Osama Bin Laden despite public CIA claims that they are clueless as to the whereabouts of the Al Qaeda boss.
IS THIS SOLDIER BEHIND LEAKS? This fresh-faced soldier could be responsible for leaking a massive file of secret military documents revealing chilling details of the Afghanistan war and civilian deaths.
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#1. To: buckeroo, turtle (#0)
Wikipedia debunks claims OBL has died, at the same time revealing hundreds of serious incidents not reported, or denied by, by US occupation forces.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Osama died in 2001. The man is dead. Please do not bother replying.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
Claims need to be supported and sourced. Wikileaks has tens of thousands of facts they have published vetted and researched, which were previously unknown. Conspiracy theorists claiming "Obama died in 2001" have nothing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmmmm.....
Yes, so where is the supporting evidence that bin Laden really is still alive? That was more than likely planted info, perhaps the biggest reason the "leaks" occured in the first place.
I have heard that Judge Bolton has dismissed the new AZ law, that OBL is still flipping hamburgers at one of the McDonald's publick stands in Tuscon AZ.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Since the leaks to Wikileaks are violently objected to by the USG and US military, since the founder of Wikileaks has been the target of kidnapping attempts and criminal investigations, since one of the people alleged to have given Wikileaks information is facing serious military criminal charges, and since Wikileaks information reflects unfavorably upon the US war effort and undermines support for it, your allegations of planted info make no sense when seen in context.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Was Elvis seen working the fries?
I'm sure the USG would be forthcoming with admissions it was planted info if it was, right?
Yes, so where is the supporting evidence that bin Laden really is still alive? That was more than likely planted info, perhaps the biggest reason the "leaks" occured in the first place. Always look for the wheels within wheels. Yes, Bin Laden has likely been dead since somewhere around Dec. 2001 to Jan. 2002.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
If OBL were alive, his propaganda value in making frequent appearances would be priceless.
__________________________________________________________ So you and Lurker both think that a)the leaks were planned so that b) planted info suggesting that OBL was still alive would c) be reason enough( despite the fact there were other very damaging to the war effort revelations ) for gubment to justify to the grass eaters that the Afghan War was still a necessary thingy to pursue? Hmmmm...interesting theory...especially since most of the damaging revelations appear to involve US and coalition forces plugging innocent Afghan civilians who the grass eaters by and large could care less about....
Since this story about OBL is one single item in 90,000+ other items, and the 90,000+ other items - and an additional 15,000+ on their way - show the USG sytematically killing civilians, denying and covering up hundreds of misdeeds, and pouring billions of dollars trying to buy its enemies, who then use those billions to finance attacks against the US, what purpose is served by planting this severely unfavorable info?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not if he gets captured.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What purpose do the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan serve?
That's the thing, MOST people don't seem to care anymore, and/or feel powerless to do anything about it if they did.
Why should anyone care about the basic issues of governance? You are too worried about cockamamie BS... of and about your posts to deliver a straightforward answer.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
(raises hand) To keep Israel a Free and Democratic Nation and prevent another Holocaust!!!
__________________________________________________________ So explain to us what YOU are doing to show you care buck. Are you leading some sort of political rally to fire the people up, or just sitting at home bitching at people who discuss this sort of thing?
(raises hand) To keep Israel a Free and Democratic Nation and prevent another Holocaust!!! LOL!!!!! What a naughty boy you are, X-15! hehehehehehe.....
Oh sure, its all my fault while you while the hours away on a chit-chat channel believing in government conspiracies... man, you are so ignorant, you should be regarded as a PURE puke when ANYONE viewing own posts. You NEVER address the real issues.. an apathetic people built upon WW2... and you believe in conspiracies while the voters strip you of not just dignity but RIGHTS... meanwhile you believe some BS about government creating 9/11. You are off-topic. You are full of BS.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
So you and Lurker both think that a)the leaks were planned so that b) planted info suggesting that OBL was still alive would c) be reason enough( despite the fact there were other very damaging to the war effort revelations ) for gubment to justify to the grass eaters that the Afghan War was still a necessary thingy to pursue? Hmmmm...interesting theory...especially since most of the damaging revelations appear to involve US and coalition forces plugging innocent Afghan civilians who the grass eaters by and large could care less about.... The intel people are perfectly capable of doing that. Assembling a package of information that is ultimately already known, and then planting disinfo in there. That way you get people accepting the disinfo because "it must be true it was leaked".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
What bothers me about your BS posts is that you NEVER produce a serious FACT to support your own windy BS.. You are just a stinky poster, dude.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
So I take that as an admission that you are simply sitting on YOUR fat ass, bitching at people on the Internet who ARE trying to shed light on things that MIGHT get people to wake up. Just as I thought.
You have no REASON to say that to me, pal.. go play with yourself... which is fairly common reading your silly posts that go nowhere.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Uh Buck? How many intelligence agencies are you aware of that broadcast their plans and programs? How many intelligence agencies are you aware of that tell people "well we're gonna put together a package of disinfo for the Suckers and then leak it so it'll be credible"? If you have so much trouble telling the difference between speculation and hard facts it is no wonder you are such a fount of repeated disinformation.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You have no REASON to say that to me, pal.. go play with yourself... which is fairly common reading your silly posts that go nowhere. Hey Buck! Solve the word puzzle and win a prize: Make a complete sentence from the following: Traffic play go the in. Happy puzzling!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Why should anyone care about the basic issues of governance? You are too worried about cockamamie BS... of and about your posts to deliver a straightforward answer. So explain to us what YOU are doing to show you care buck Actually I think this is a correct observation. If we think there are people who are stuck in side issues, we need to start tuning them out and proceed to places where discussion will have more productive results.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out!! Good luck!! Happy trails!! Namaste!! Adios!! Proceed to places where discussion will have more productive results for you. Don't delay, act NOW. Run, run like the wind. God Speed!!
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Why would that be, Half Truther? Are you a$$suming you and a small cotiere of CT'ers have this site in a death grip, and will go on for the next 20 years chanting "911 was an inside job...911 was an inside job...911 was an inside job...911 was an inside job" with nothing to back it up other than the sound of your voices? Uhm, in a word, no.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just offering a few words of encouragement on your thoughts. You said you need to "proceed to places where discussion will have more productive results" for you. Well, I finally agree with you on something. No assumptions, just words of encouragement. Aren't you going to make good on your words this time?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Presuming you and a handful of Half Truthers have a death grip on this site is in fact an a$$umption. Why certainly, and what's more I'll do them in ways that are actually effective as I see them. It's clear from everything you say and do, you don't have a clue what works and what doesn't in reality. So getting hot and bothered over some fantasy you have and some methods you dream of, has close to zero likelihood of actually being selected by anyone with any sense.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You put the ASS in assumption. This is typical of your posts, wherein you interject idiotic ASSumptions that have no base or merit. More ASSumptions about my "clue" and "reality" I see. Is that all you have, AG? Epic failure AGain. Gee, there is NOTHING you could possible do or say to get me "hot and bothered" in any way. Like I said, I'm offering encouragement for your "thoughts" about finding a site where you can actually think of yourself as "productive" perhaps even useful. Dream big, AG. That site is out there, just waiting for you to walk through the door. Hey, maybe they will enjoy your baseless ASSumptions over there. Wouldn't that be lovely? Maybe, just maybe, somebody could get "hot and bothered" by something you do or say.......but I wouldn't bet on it.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Yah right. Do a word dump of all your alleged posts to me, in exchanges which have almost always, if not 100% always, been initiated by ***you**** not me, and see how many thousands of adjectives, nouns, and verbs you've emitted in my direction. BWAHAHAHAHAHA loser!!!!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They make some sense when you look at their list of "steadfast supporters":
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#2. To: AGAviator (#0)
#3. To: Horse (#2)
(Edited)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#4. To: AGAviator (#0)
Mr Lamo believes Manning did not work alone, saying he did not have ‘the technological expertise’ to carry out the gathering and leaking of the documents....
#5. To: AGAviator (#3)
Claims need to be supported and sourced.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#6. To: FormerLurker (#5)
Yes, so where is the supporting evidence that bin Laden really is still alive?
#7. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#5)
That was more than likely planted info, perhaps the biggest reason the "leaks"
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#8. To: buckeroo (#6)
OBL is still flipping hamburgers at one of the McDonald's publick stands in Tuscon AZ.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#9. To: AGAviator (#7)
your allegations of planted info make no sense when seen in context
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#10. To: FormerLurker (#5)
Claims need to be supported and sourced.
#11. To: Original_Intent (#10)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#12. To: Original_Intent, FormerLurker, AGAviator (#10)
(Edited)
Always look for the wheels within wheels. Yes, Bin Laden has likely been dead since somewhere around Dec. 2001 to Jan. 2002.
#13. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle, scrapper2 (#9)
(Edited)
I'm sure the USG would be forthcoming with admissions it was planted info if it was, right?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#14. To: X-15 (#11)
If OBL were alive, his propaganda value in making frequent appearances would be priceless
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#15. To: AGAviator (#13)
what purpose is served by planting this severely unfavorable info?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#16. To: scrapper2, FormerLurker, AGAviator (#12)
Hmmmm...interesting theory...especially since most of the damaging revelations appear to involve US and coalition forces plugging innocent Afghan civilians who the grass eaters by and large could care less about....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#17. To: FormerLurker (#16)
That's the thing, MOST people don't seem to care anymore, and/or feel powerless to do anything about it if they did.
#18. To: FormerLurker (#15)
What purpose do the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan serve?
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#19. To: buckeroo (#17)
Why should anyone care about the basic issues of governance? You are too worried about cockamamie BS... of and about your posts to deliver a straightforward answer.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#20. To: X-15 (#18)
What purpose do the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan serve?
#21. To: FormerLurker (#19)
So explain to us what YOU are doing to show you care buck
#22. To: scrapper2, FormerLurker (#12)
Always look for the wheels within wheels. Yes, Bin Laden has likely been dead since somewhere around Dec. 2001 to Jan. 2002.
#23. To: Original_Intent (#22)
The intel people are perfectly capable of doing that. Assembling a package of information that is ultimately already known, and then planting disinfo in there. That way you get people accepting the disinfo because "it must be true it was leaked".
#24. To: buckeroo (#21)
You are off-topic. You are full of BS.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#25. To: FormerLurker (#24)
So I take that as an admission
#26. To: buckeroo (#23)
#27. To: buckeroo, FormerLurker (#25)
(Edited)
So I take that as an admission
#28. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#19)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#29. To: AGAviator (#28)
(Edited)
If we think there are people who are stuck in side issues, we need to start tuning them out and proceed to places where discussion will have more productive results.
#30. To: abraxas, buckeroo (#29)
Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out!!
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#31. To: AGAviator (#30)
If we think there are people who are stuck in side issues, we need to start tuning them out and proceed to places where discussion will have more productive results.
#32. To: abraxas, buckeroo (#31)
No assumptions, just words of encouragement.
Aren't you going to make good on your words this time?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#33. To: AGAviator (#32)
in fact an a$$umption.
#34. To: abraxas, buckeroo (#33)
(Edited)
Gee, there is NOTHING you could possible do or say to get me "hot and bothered" in any way.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#35. To: AGAviator (#7)
your allegations of planted info make no sense when seen in context.
WikiLeaks would like to thank the following 18 steadfast supporters (unordered):
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#36. To: Critter (#35)
They make some sense when you look at their list of "steadfast supporters": The Wiki organization has a link on which anybody can send an anonymous donation through a 3rd party bank, and they encourage private readers to send what they can afford without making it a requirement.
Your allegations of planted info make no sense when seen in context.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#37. To: AGAviator (#36)
I guess you missed the point. Their list of steadfast supporters reads like a who's who list of government controlled propaganda outlets.
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#38. To: AGAviator (#34)
Er, this IS a public forum, wherein people post to one another. That's the point. The only one whining about it not being "productive" is you. You've made as many posts to me as I have to you, but, unlike you, I don't read anything more into it than a public forum post. Get a load of yourself!! A post on a public forum isn't anywhere near "hot and bothered"......put your ego in check as you are, once again, looking like an egotistical idiot. lol More baseless ASSumptions. Isn't that "more productive" site just waiting for you and your big ol' ego to join in? Perhaps, they might enjoy your arrogance and sense of self importance. Like I said, they MIGHT get "hot and bothered" over something you say or do, but I wouldn't bet on it.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#39. To: AGAviator (#0)
www.infowars.com/wikileak...98war-on-terror%e2%80%99/ Wikileaks’ War Logs Highlight Global Intelligence Facade Of ‘War On Terror’ CIA funds ISI – ISI funds Taliban, Al Qaeda Steve Watson Infowars.com Monday, Jul 26th, 2010 The Wikileaks Afghanistan War Logs, publicly released today, highlight and corroborate what we already know about the “war on terror” – it is a vast and decompartmentalised intelligence operation. The London Guardian reports: “A stream of U.S. military intelligence reports accuse Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) spy agency of arming, training and financing the Taliban insurgency since 2004, the war logs reveal, bringing fresh scrutiny on one of the war’s most contentious issues.” The reports are said to have been mostly collated by junior officers relying on informants and Afghan officials, prompting one senior U.S. intelligence officer to describe them as a mixture of “rumours, bullshit and second-hand information”. However, it has been common knowledge for years that the ISI created the Taliban and Al Qaeda as we now know them, acting in its capacity as a direct front for U.S. intelligence. Before 9/11, Pakistan worked directly with the CIA to create the Taliban in Afghanistan. Selig Harrison from the Woodrow Wilson International Centre for Scholars stated: “The CIA made a historic mistake in encouraging Islamic groups from all over the world to come to Afghanistan. The U.S. provided $3 billion for building up these Islamic groups, and it accepted Pakistan’s demand that they should decide how this money should be spent. The old associations between the intelligence agencies continue. The CIA still has close links with the ISI (Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence). Today that money and those weapons have helped build up the Taliban, Harrison said. The Taliban are not just recruits from ‘madrassas’ (Muslim theological schools) but are on the payroll of the ISI. The Taliban are now “making a living out of terrorism.” Harrison confirmed that the creation of the Taliban had been “actively encouraged by the ISI and the CIA and that Pakistan had been building up Afghan collaborators who would “sustain Pakistan”. Al Qaeda was a joint CIA/ISI intelligence database of mujahudeen fighters they had recruited in the late 70s and eighties to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. It was later revealed via de-classified Defence Intelligence Agency documents of 2001 that the DIA was aware that the ISI was sponsoring the Taliban and Al Qaeda, but the Bush Administration chose to ignore its findings. B Raman, former additional secretary in the Cabinet Secretariat, analysed three recently de-classified DIA documents of 2001 relating to the Taliban and Al Qaeda and said, “From these documents, it is clear that the DIA knew of the ISI’s role in sponsoring not only the Taliban, but also the Al Qaeda.” No surprise then that in 2003 two senior members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Richard G. Lugar, Republican of Indiana, and Joseph R. Biden Jr., Democrat of Delaware (now vice president), went on record to state that Pakistan’s ISI was sheltering Taliban fighters along the border, thus undermining the stability of Afghanistan. The Senators told the New York Times that there was evidence that ISI might be helping the Taliban and Al Qaeda operatives along the border infiltrate into Afghanistan. Then in 2005 CIA officer Gary Schroen, who spearheaded U.S.’ search for Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan, stated that ISI officials are very well aware of the whereabouts of the leadership of Al Qaeda, including Bin Laden himself. The veteran CIA officer said that regardless of how much reward money America offers, “Bin Laden would not be captured and handed in” because the leadership of Pakistan, including Musharraf, are afraid of the internal political consequences. Two days before 9/11, the leader of the Afghan Northern Alliance, Commander Ahmad Shah Masood, was assassinated. The Northern Alliance informed the Bush Administration that the ISI was allegedly implicated in the assassination, stating: “A `Pakistani ISI-Osama-Taliban axis’ [was responsible] of plotting the assassination by two Arab suicide bombers…. `We believe that this is a triangle between Osama bin Laden, ISI, which is the intelligence section of the Pakistani army, and the Taliban,” Thus the Afghans that would be fighting on the side of the U.S. in the upcoming war after 9/11 are on record with their belief that the ISI and Al Qaeda are intimately connected. Yet the Bush administration began operating with Pakistan and the ISI as an ally. Not even the corporate media could whitewash these facts and so explained it away by alleging that U.S. officials had sought cooperation from Pakistan because it was the original backer of the Taliban, the hard-line Islamic leadership of Afghanistan accused by Washington of harboring Bin Laden. Then the so called “missing link” came when it was revealed that the head of the ISI was the principal financier of the 9/11 hijackers. In various terror attacks, alerts and foiled plots since 9/11, further links between Al Qaeda, the ISI and U.S. and British Intelligence have emerged. As Professor Michel Chossudovsky has pointed out in his excellent expose, all these links are even corroborated by the House of Representatives International Relations Committee. A Statement in 2000 by Rep. Dana Rohrbacher, Hearing of The House International Relations Committee on “Global Terrorism And South Asia” highlighted that U.S. support funneled through the ISI to the Taliban and Osama bin Laden has been a consistent policy of the U.S. Administration since the end of the Cold War: …[T]he United States has been part and parcel to supporting the Taliban all along, and still is let me add… You have a military government [of President Musharraf] in Pakistan now that is arming the Taliban to the teeth….Let me note; that [U.S.] aid has always gone to Taliban areas… We have been supporting the Taliban, because all our aid goes to the Taliban areas. And when people from the outside try to put aid into areas not controlled by the Taliban, they are thwarted by our own State Department… At that same moment, Pakistan initiated a major resupply effort, which eventually saw the defeat, and caused the defeat, of almost all of the anti-Taliban forces in Afghanistan. In July 2007, Tom Fingar of the office of the Director of National Intelligence told a Congressional hearing that he believed the Bush administration was allowing the leadership of Al Qaeda to operate freely in Pakistan and had chosen not to disrupt its activities. “It’s not that we lack the ability to go into that space, but we have chosen not to do so without the permission of the Pakistani government.” Fingar said. Fingar’s claims were supported by the revelation that a secret military operation in early 2005 to capture senior members of Al Qaeda in Pakistan’s tribal areas was aborted at the last minute after top Bush administration officials decided it was too risky and could jeopardize relations with Pakistan. “The U.S. has provided $5.6 billion in coalition support funds to Pakistan over the past five years, with zero accountability,” said Congressman Patrick Murphy, D-Pa., at the hearing. “Why is Pakistan still being paid these large sums of money, even after publicly declaring that it is significantly cutting back patrols in the most important border area?” he asked. Pakistan and the ISI is the go between of the global terror explosion. Pakistan’s military-intelligence apparatus, which literally created and sponsored the Taliban and Al Qaeda, is directly upheld and funded by the CIA. These facts are not even in dispute, neither in the media nor in government. These facts were also recently highlighted by Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari, who admitted that the CIA and his country’s ISI together created the Taliban and are still providing support. The Taliban’s spread into Pakistan has also been connected to intelligence driven plots to Balkanize the middle East. When a whistleblower, Qari Zainuddin, a tribal leader of the South Waziristan, who defected from the Pakistani Taliban claimed that the group was working with U.S. intelligence to destabilize the country, he was assassinated just days later. Last November, the LA Times, citing current and former U.S. officials, reported that the CIA has paid millions of dollars to the ISI since 9/11, accounting for as much as one-third of the foreign spy agency’s annual budget, and that the funding, initiated covertly under Bush, has continued under Obama. A major London School of Economics study, released last year, also highlighted the ongoing relationship between the ISI and the Taliban. The Pakistani ISI is a CIA front and controls terror cells at the discretion of the highest levels of the U.S. military-industrial complex. There is a great need to perpetuate the mythical war on terror in order to maintain the pretext for the geopolitical genocide currently being undertaken by globalist advances into the middle east “rogue” (independent) nations. As our governments assert that they are doing everything in their power to dismantle the global terror network, the reality is the exact opposite. The criminal intelligence networks assembled it, they sponsored it and they continue to fund it using our tax dollars. As any good criminal should, they have a middleman to provide plausible deniability. That middleman is the ISI and the military dictatorship of Pakistan.
#40. To: Critter (#37) (Edited)
While you could claim that for Gannett and Washinton Post among others, ACLU and The Electronic Frontier Foundation - hardly.
Their list of steadfast supporters reads like a who's who list of government controlled propaganda outlets.
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
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