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Title: WikiLeaks Reveals Al Qaeda Boss Was Seen at Village Meetings - Despite CIA Claims They Were Clueless
Source:
Daily Mail Online
URL Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art ... den-seen-village-meetings.html
Published: Jul 28, 2010
Author: Mail Foreign Service
Post Date: 2010-07-28 15:17:40 by AGAviator
Keywords: None
Views: 5277
Comments: 280
Glimpses of Bin Laden: Now WikiLeaks reveals Al Qaeda boss was seen at village meetings - despite CIA claims that they were clueless By Mail Foreign Service Last updated at 10:16 AM on 27th July 2010 Bin Laden spotted in meeting with Taliban chief in 2006 'Spotted': Among 91,000 leaked U.S. documents are claims that Osama Bin Laden was last seen in 2006 The claims are among 91,000 U.S. military records obtained by whistleblowing website WikiLeaks. Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, said last month that there have been no firm leads on Bin Laden's whereabouts since the 'early 2000s'. But a 'threat report' from the International Security Assistance Force regional command (north) on suicide bombers in August 2006 suggested Bin Laden had been attending regular meetings in villages on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. It said: 'Reportedly a high-level meeting was held where six suicide bombers were given orders for an operation in northern Afghanistan. These meetings take place once every month.' According to the Guardian, which has received the documents, the report went on: 'The top four people in these meetings are Mullah Omar [the Taliban leader], Osama Bin Laden, Mullah Dadullah and Mullah [Baradar].' If true, it could mean forces came close to having the opportunity to wipe out the senior leadership of the Afghan insurgency that has so far claimed the lives of 320 British soldiers. The war logs also show that Bin Laden had a hand in a plot to poison coalition forces by adding a powder to food and drink consumed by troops as they passed through villages. Toll: An Afghan girl in hospital in Helmand after being injured by coalition forces in an air strike in 2007 These documents also suggest coalition forces have killed hundreds of civilians in so-called 'blue on white' incidents which were never reported. The leak is said to be U.S. Army intelligence expert Bradley Manning, 22, who boasted he had downloaded hundreds of thousands of documents, according to computer hacker Adrian Lamo. The 22-year-old, pictured above, is said to have contacted Lamo out of the blue and then claimed he had saved high-security files onto CDs, ready to hand to Wikileaks, while pretending to listen to Lady Gaga. 'Hillary Clinton and several thousand diplomats around the world are going to have a heart attack when they wake up one morning and find an entire repository of classified foreign policy is available, in searchable format, to the public,' he apparently told Mr Lamo. The hacker got in touch with the U.S. military and later met with them in Starbucks to hand over a printout of his conversations with Manning. Manning has already been charged over a separate leak of a classified helicopter cockpit video earlier this month. It showed U.S. soldiers laughing as they gunned down Afghan civilians and two journalists in a firefight in Baghdad in 2007. He was picked up in Iraq, where he was working. Manning is said to be locked up in a military prison after being shipped across the border to Kuwait. He faces trial by court martial and, if found guilty, a heavy jail sentence. Mr Lamo believes Manning did not work alone, saying he did not have ‘the technological expertise’ to carry out the gathering and leaking of the documents. 'I believe somebody would have had to have been of assistance to him,’ he said. They include claims that 16 children were among those shot or bombed in error The leaked military logs also reveal how a secret 'black' unit of crack special forces hunt down Taliban leaders for 'kill or capture' without trial - and voice concerns that Pakistani intelligence and Iran are supporting the insurgents. Downing Street said it 'would lament all unauthorised releases of classified material' and the White House condemned the ' irresponsible' leak of the files. And military and intelligence experts warned yesterday that the leaks could imperil the lives of British forces in Afghanistan. Colonel Stuart Tootal, who in 2006 commanded 3rd Battalion Parachute Regiment in Helmand Province - where more than 320 UK soldiers have been killed - said the information 'could impact on the security of our soldiers'. He insisted Nato forces now put a 'huge emphasis' on avoiding civilian casualties. Tory MP Patrick Mercer, a former Army captain, said: 'Although much of this information is in the public domain, the details are particularly damaging to the credibility of the coalition. 'Our enemies will be quick to exploit the propaganda element of it. 'If there are details of operational matters - locations, equipment, troops movements, resources - then soldiers' lives could be placed at risk.' Details of the secret files, detailing military operations between 2004 and 2009, were published yesterday by the Guardian, New York times and Germany's Der Spiegel while more than 75,000 records were made available on the WikiLeaks website. The files list 144 incidents involving Afghan civilian casualties, in which 195 died and 174 were injured. They detail coalition forces - fearful of suicide bombers - shooting unarmed drivers and civilian motorcyclists, and record an incident when French troops opened fire at a bus full of children because it came too close to a military convoy. Other leaked documents record a U.S. patrol machine-gunning a bus, killing or wounding 15 passengers, and Polish troops mortaring a village, killing a wedding party including a pregnant woman. They reveal details of undercover operations by a U.S. special forces unit named task Force 373, formed to hunt down and kill or capture taliban and Al Qaeda commanders. According to Julian Assange, the founder of the website, the files contain details of 'thousands' of potential war crimes. At a press conference in London, he defended his decision to publish the files and claimed the high level of civilian casualties reported was in fact lower than the true figure because military personnel 'downplayed' the number or reported them as insurgent deaths. Mr Assange said: 'We have tried hard to make sure that this material does not put innocents at harm. 'All the material is over seven months old so it is of no current operational consequence, even though it may be of very significant investigative consequence. 'The revelation of abuse by the U.S. and coalition forces may cause Afghans to be upset, and rightly so. ‘If governments don't like populations being upset, they should treat them better, not conceal abuses.' Professor Malcolm Chalmers, a defence expert at the Royal United Services Institute think tank, said that the leaks could undermine already faltering public support for the war. Read more: Bin Laden Seen Village Meetings Poster Comment: There has never been any proof that Bin Laden has died or been killed. He has repeatedly been reported to be in a very rugged area surrounded by people fiercely loyal to him. OBL is not and has never been in direct command of operations. He sees himself as someone providing motivation and logistical support to people actually carrying out day to day operations.
Al Qaeda boss 'had hand' in plot to poison UK troops
Secret files claim British soldiers shot 16 children
Military experts: leaks could put our troops in peril
Taliban missile brought down Chinook helicopter Secret files leaked about the war in Afghanistan have revealed tantalising glimpses of Osama Bin Laden despite public CIA claims that they are clueless as to the whereabouts of the Al Qaeda boss.
IS THIS SOLDIER BEHIND LEAKS? This fresh-faced soldier could be responsible for leaking a massive file of secret military documents revealing chilling details of the Afghanistan war and civilian deaths.
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#185. To: scrapper2, buckeroo, turtle (#183)
(Edited)
There is not much disagreement on whether Hanjour was a crummy pilot. The contention comes from the CT's saying he absolutely had to be a great pilot in order to pull a 1/2 G turn, when just to get a pilot license you need to pull a 2G 360 degree turn + or - 200 feet. And the CT's saying he absolutely had to be a great pilot in order to descend at 46.667 feet per second or 31.818 MPH vertically over the time span of 2 minutes. I say "ridiculous" to both claims of the need for piloting to be excellent to perform at these simple levels. It's the classic strawman argument. Put up something untrue ("fighter pilot level skills needed to fly the 757"), rebut it, then claim victory.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Even if he did fly it, why weren't the windows broken? edit: Where the wings should have hit them.
No, that is YOUR straw man argument, it is NOT what anyone here has been saying other than you. Air traffic controllers at Dulles International Airport thought that it was a military aircraft due to the rate of speed the jet flew and its precision turns made while descending, something not that unusual for a fighter, but highly unusual for a commercial airliner. Flying at treetop level at 400 mph accelerating to 530 mph is not something an ordinary commercial airliner does either, in case you thought that was normal. Thing is, Hanjour had NEVER flown ANY sort of jet aircraft in his life, and truly sucked at flying a single engine Cessna 172. No matter how many ways you try to beat a dead horse, there's no possible way Hanjour could pull off the manuevers witnessed that day while flying a multi-engine jumbo jet. He more than likely wouldn't have been able to do it in a Cessna 172 either. Contrary to your cherry picked out of context "quote", Hanjour didn't just take over the plane as soon as it took off, and he didn't just "point the nose in the direction of the building and crash" it. Why do you cling to this religious belief of yours, where ALL the evidence points AWAY from Hanjour having flown the plane? Where's ANY proof that HE DID?
And we're just supposed to believe YOU that it is even possible to fly 20 feet off the ground at 530 mph in a simulator, right? How many times have YOU sat in a 757 flight simulator? I can tell you the number of times Hanjour did. ZERO. But of course you don't want to concede simulators are useful and valid, because that will undermine your claim that Hanjour's completed 737 training prepared him to fly a multi engine 757. How many more times are you going to misrepresent the fact that Hanjour flunked out of that school? He did NOT complete the course, he hardly ever showed up for class, didn't do his homework, and couldn't understand the instructors while there, and was an extremely poor student in terms of basic flight skills. In fact he was SO bad the school called the FAA to see if his "license" was genuine, as they thought it had to be a fake.
Isn't it odd that the date on the video is Sep. 12? Maybe someone was trying to tell us something?
Maybe someone was trying to tell us something? I see a smoke trail, and the aircraft is too small to be a 757, IF the video is even authentic.
You should read the following article, it describes how the 9/11 Commission lied about Hanjours abilities, where they tried to build him up as some sort of commericial airline pilot, where in reality he never flew a commericial aircraft, and never one larger than a twin engine Piper Apache propeller driven plane, and even THAT is highly questionable since he couldn't fly a smaller single engine plane. Al Qaeda’s Top Gun - Willful Deception by the 9/11 Commission Each and every instructor who delt with him described him as a awful pilot, terrible in English, and worse in terms of flight skills. He tried to rent a single engine Cessna 172, but was refused on three different occasions because he couldn't fly it to the satisfaction of flight instructors who went with him on a check flight. Yet he is said to have flown a Boeing 757 from Ohio to Washington DC, utilizing the aircraft's flight management computer to change the course to Washingon, yet he had never seen a 757 flight management computer before in his life. He is then said to have made such tight precision turns while descending that air traffic controllers thought it was a military aircraft. He is then said to have leveled off at treetop level flying at 400 mph, accelerated to 530 mph, dipped down to 20 feet off the ground with the nose level, and then flew the aircraft into the Pentagon wall at the ground floor level. All this from a person who couldn't fly a Cessna 172 in a circle around an airport.
He'll need to ask for some talking points on that one. It's probably going to be a delayed response since it's a weekend and the Ministry of Truth is understaffed today.
You think yourself smarter and more of an expert than commercial airline pilots, aeronautical engineers, flight instructors, and seasoned air traffic controllers. So yeah, you are just an Internet rube talking trash.
You keep flogging that 1 ATC quote which you don't even place in its full context. The controller says nothing about misidentifying the 757 as a military jet, simply that you aren't supposed to fly a commercial jet in what she called an "unsafe" manner for a 757 passenger airliner. The ATC didn't just haphazardly pick a 757 instead of a 737, 747, or PA-125 in her statement. She knew the jet they observed with no transponder signal was supposed to be a hijacked 757. The claim that a turn covering 270 to 330 degrees is garbage because mid turn the plane disappeared from radar. How does somebody who doesn't even see the last half of a 270 to 330 degree turn become qualified to say whether the turn was "precision" or not? HAHAHAHA. What you're pinning all your hopes on, is that according to one ATC, descending at 46 feet per second or 31.818 MPH vertically, is supposed to be "unsafe." HAHAHAHA. That means any pilot who pulls a 2G turn and descends at 100 feet per second or more is either "unsafe" or has "fighter pilot" skill levels. HAHAHAHHA. Like I said earlier, all your out-of-context ATC statement really means is what my first ground control instructor said: ATC's and airline execs don't want their passenger jets to spill any passenger drinks. Well good for them. That simply was not in the cards when an aircraft got hijacked by a suicide pilot who wasn't interested in landing safely. That doesn't mean the plane was not a hijacked 757 just because the hijacker chose to fly a plane into a building in a way not anticipated by people in the towers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What an desperate rube talking trash you're becoming trying to conflate off the cuff ATC remarks into some evidence of a conspiracy. From your own link. Airline pilot Patrick Smith, writing for Salon, said that it was one of "the more commonly heard myths that pertain to the airplanes and their pilots" that "the terrorist pilots lacked the skill and training to fly jetliners into their targets. ... Similarly quoted was George Williams, a pilot for Northwest Airlines for 38 years, who said, "I don’t see any merit to those arguments [that Hanjour couldn’t have flown Flight 77 into the Pentagon]. The Pentagon is a pretty big target and I’d say hitting it was a fairly easy thing to do." Both your quotes are footnoted and are from qualified personnel with decades of actually flying airplanes, internet talking rube. Deal with them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I see a jet spiral contrail in between the large tan pylon on the right and the fireball, in Impacts #2 and #3.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's a weekend and I'd rather go out on a boat with my family than waste time trying to talk sense into a small group of people who want to live in lalaland.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's probably going to be a delayed response since it's a weekend and the Ministry of Truth is understaffed today It's a weekend and I'd rather go out on a boat with my family than waste time trying to talk sense into a small group of people who want to live in lalaland. Translation: I don't have an answer yet for why the windows weren't broken.
Deux hun
I don't have an answer yet for why the windows weren't broken. No. Since you're someone with way more questions than answers yourself, you'll have to give more to get more.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The more I look at that clip the more I think it was a computer animation created in some government super computer. The fire ball from the explosion following impact just does not look quite right.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
The problem of course, if you want to try playing the appeal to authority card, is that there are a lot more experienced pilots who disagree with your 2 commentators many of whom have every bit as much flying experience. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe who have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day based on solid data and facts -- since 9/11/2001 is the catalyst for many of the events shaping our world today -- and the United States Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers or facts. We stand with the numerous other growing organizations of Firefighters, Medical Professionals, Lawyers, Scholars, Scientists, Architects and Engineers, Veterans, Religious and Political Leaders, along side family members of the victims -- family members of soldiers who have made the ultimate sacrifice -- including the many Ground Zero workers who are now ill or have passed away, when we ask for a true, new independent investigation into the events of 9/11. We do not accept the 9/11 Commission Report and/or "hypothesis" as a satisfactory explanation for the sacrifice every American has made and continues to make -- some more than others. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Acronyms CORE MEMBERS LISTED IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY JOINED. LIST UPDATED REGULARLY. Robert Balsamo Captain Russ Wittenberg (ret) Captain Ross Aimer Commander Ralph “Rotten” Kolstad John Lear Jeff Latas Guy S. Razer, LtCol, USAF (Ret) Dwain Deets Field McConnell (Captain Sherlock?) Captain Paul A. Trood Jim Mustanich Ted Muga Col Robert Bowman "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Well, you see, the wings struck the steel reinforced concrete along their leading edges close to the fuselage and then they immediately folded up and into the fuselage, similar to the way fighter wings fold before being lowered below deck on carriers. Of course had the plane's wings folded with the engines facing out the building would have shown the impact of the combined tonnage of the heavy, solid alloy engines, and that would have been more likely to damage the facade than the relatively soft nose of the plane. ERGO, the engines folded up and in facing the fuselage, but that presents another problem. In order for the wings to fold that neatly along the fuselage the engines would have met inside the plane, and the combined width of the engines is wider than the narrow-body on every 757 fuselage that hasn't been "subject to govt explainin'". And, if the engines were pointed down (on wings that rotated 90 degrees while folding) the fuselage should have been neatly sheared where the engines met, crushing the plane shell between them before vaporizing against each other.(the engines' length on the vertical being roughly equal to the diameter of the fuselage.) It's unlikely that the crushed shell would survive being sandwiched between engines that were vaporized. (Were you shocked that there were no graphic simulations of American Airlines Flight 77 miraculous wing folding phenomenon the way they fabbed up the colorful but incorrect CGI cartoons of the WTC collapse? Mee neether) So, the wings and engines must have been traveling at such incredible folding speeds that the high tensile-multiple alloy engines were literally flattened and liquified on impact with each other inside the plane, and the two large pieces of the now sheared shell followed the same trajectory into the building, all because the main wing struts were able to bend like soft rubber to tangential angles without the wings shearing off the way they do when commercial jets hit trees and all other "steel reinforced hardened concrete bomb proof military headquarters". The fact that the govt wants us to believe that something like this is what really happened is all we need to know, and any science or physics that raise doubts may be disregarded. 9/11 may be summarized thus: As you know, govt spokesmen are rock solid reliable, more so than any inconvenient or "incongruous math calculations or scientific principles."
Oh noooooo, Magic(k)al Jet Engines™ too! Oh the horror!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. And oddly enough, there's more than a passing resemblance that Bradley Manning has, to Lyndie England. What bothers me about this whole deal, is that the people of this country aren't horrified, or demanding that we immediately cease activity in the region.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
excellent. your whole post so well articulated. ty.
lol pwned
Both your quotes are footnoted and are from qualified personnel with decades of actually flying airplanes, internet talking rube. Deal with them. The problem of course, if you want to try playing the appeal to authority card, is that there are a lot more experienced pilots who disagree with your 2 commentators many of whom have every bit as much flying experience And the problem with your appeal to numbers card is that as of 2006, there were over 597,000 active licensed pilots in the US, of which about 596,000 were not in the "Pilots for 911 Truth" and either actively opposed their theories, or thought they were irrelevant. And several hundred thousand additional inactive pilots who were also not in "Pilots for 911 Truth." So we're back to Less Than Six Percenter territory. 84,866 student pilots Within those groups, there were: 37,837 glider pilots ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That would actually be a useful outcome. The problem with this passionate clinging to unsupported whodunit theories, is it takes people's focus away from current events and how to deal with them. I've repeatedly posted that while a rather small percentage believes the USG actually engineered the destruction of the buildings on 911, a much larger percentage believes certain elements within the USG had some advance knowledge and chose to look the other way, allowing it to happen to bring about causus belli which would allow them to carry out their agenda. However the small percentage which believes in active participation ,spends most of its time attacking the larger percentage which believes in passive neglect. The internecine fighting then distracts from the overriding issue of "What's happened has happened. Now how do we deal with the consequences of it, here and now?" The small percentage is unable to provide any solutions, because they can't even completely define how their active conspiracy scenarios were implemented.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, the wings and engines must have been traveling at such incredible folding speeds that the high tensile-multiple alloy engines were literally flattened and liquified on impact with each other inside the plane, and the two large pieces of the now sheared shell followed the same trajectory into the building, all because the main wing struts were able to bend like soft rubber to tangential angles without the wings shearing off the way they do when commercial jets hit trees and all other "steel reinforced hardened concrete bomb proof military headquarters". lol pwned pwned yourself. Now go to your next move, k00ksite denial of facts, claiming the parts weren't of a 757 engine but they can't specify with any certainty what they are from, because that would require supportable evidence of their own, and their denials have been debunked hundreds of times too.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WikiLeaks Reveals Elvis Was Seen at Downtown Mall - Despite CIA Claims They Were Clueless
What is that supposed to be?
I don't think you can do that with a 757. It's not even elegant using an A-6 Skyraider.
"The people in power will not disappear voluntarily, giving flowers to the cops just isn't going to work. This thinking is fostered by the establishment; they like nothing better than love and nonviolence. The only way I like to see cops given flowers is in a flower pot from a high window.” - William S Burroughs
You neglected to mention that the second photo was a picture that was released as an exhibit during the Zacarias Moussaoui terrorist trial in 2006 and never seen by any honest observers before that date. And, this by the same govt that is so Hell bent on "stage managing all evidence" that they threatened to prosecute those who secured a piece of evidence from TWA Flight 800 to test it for missile fuel residue. Is this the act of a govt that seeks "sunlight, the best disinfectant"? No, you cannot sell your crock 'o shit here because we ain't on the payroll and we ain't part of the secret homosexual pedophile cabal that is the US Government. And, between your endless fellatio-of-govt-by-proxy sessions do you ever take a breath and ask, "If a picture is worth a thousand words then why are all of the surveillance videos of that day under lock and key?" Simply put, if that doesn't arouse your suspicions and result in forceful demands for justice then you will never have any credibility with honest, patriotic Americans who are capable of adult reasoning and who want the truth. Perhaps you should continue to haunt places where like minded cowards on the govt payroll will agree with any "official findings", (i.e. "Oswald was the lone gunman 'cause the Warren Commission said so") that won't jeopardize the stolen or extorted tax dollars that buy the loyalty of the likes of you) And, what proof did the govt offer other than "You can believe us 'cause we wouldn't lie about sumthin' like that!" that this was photographed at the Pentagon? Your intentional omission of the source of the photo is proof that you're aware of the absurdity of offering the govt's word to "prove" that the govt (or Satan, or Jay Pollard or FBI spy Robert Hanssen) isn't lying. The only other possibility is that you really are that fucking dumb, in which case you'd believe your own wife's testimony against you in divorce court: "Well, the little woman has testified and if she said it then it must be true so, there's no need for me to testify, Your Honor!" pwned indeed. And while we're on the subject of Zacarias Moussaoui; "According to the Associated Press, three jurors decided Moussaoui had only limited knowledge of the September 11 plot, and three described his role in the attacks as minor, if he had any role at all." It's a real bitch when carefully selected jurors don't follow the script the way govt profilers and psychologists anticipate, isn't it? NO WONDER the govt insists of kangaroo military tribunals for selected civilians. That's how the govt guaranteed the conviction and hanging of Mary Surratt. (You didn't really believe that "the Warren Commission Report=case closed!" was the earliest "precedent of corruption" in use by our govt, did you?) And, speaking of you, You really are a criminal co-conspirator after the fact, aren't you?
That's right. Actually, my post would have been better served by using the example of a bird's wings folding neatly along side the critter's "fuselage", but, hopefully the folks whose opinions we value got the picture.
yeah, what about that, Aviator?
pwned indeed. lmao yeah that.
I'm sure that Ass Grabber is consulting with the highest authority in this matter and his response will be forthcoming immediately..... "You already used 'pwned'? Okay, call him a 'Nazi' next...." "As you wish, Rabbi...."
That had to have left a mark.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
And, between your endless fellatio-of-govt-by-proxy sessions "If a picture is worth a thousand words then why are all of the surveillance videos of that day under lock and key?" yeah, what about that, Aviator? What about what? The par-for-the-course fellatio reference? Or the fact that criminal investigation results are not released in their entirety to the general public without a Freeedom of Information request obtained through the court system? Honest patriotic Americans will want to concern themselves with actions they can take in this moment, that will change what is happening here and now. People who after 8 1/2 years still cannot come up with any coherent and detailed results of how exactly the USG engineered their conspiracies, while engaging in unceasing attacks against people who don't accept their vague claims, are neither patriotic nor adults. Instead they waste time, as Noah Chomsky explicity states in my sig line, in diverting what could be useful change into esoteric whodunits that will never get resolved. Which again as Chomsky explicitly states, is why the whodunit purveyors are not pursued by the Establishment, which recognizes them as harmless, irrelevant and even useful in allowing the USG to stay its course with a confused and fragmented opposition. For example, right now the US needs to choose what it will do in Afghanistan. Does it leave entirely? What about the people it has cultivated there, do they get refuge in the US or do they just get left to die. What about Pakistan, what about border controls? Or Iraq, and Saudi Arabia, and Yemen, and Somalia. You people have zero solutions to current issues. Zero. None of you has any answers to these real-life issues because you'd rather spend your time in something which has no solutions and will never be solved. Well, life goes on, and even if you don't want to deal with reality, the majority of the population can and will do so.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That was the question.
Well imagine that. A criminal prosecution that doesn't issue general public press releases of all the evidence it has prior to the trial. So Not only are you ignorant of aviation and construction engineering, you are incapable of even understanding basic concepts of American jurisprudence. No, you're a false front operator agent provocateur attempting without much success to steer the general public into unproductive and unsolvable scenarios that distract from ongoing here and now issues.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Already answered.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's sort of difficult to get those involved to allow investigations to go forward, or get them to admit they were in fact involved. However, we can see how the official story is NOT true, and go from there, calling for a new independent investigation. If enough people wake up, it MIGHT happen. It will not happen if people such as you are successful in convincing the people that they should "move on", and have them forget that what happened that day is the reason the people of this nation lost their freedoms, and this country embarked on wars of adventure and conquest without even being attacked or threatened by those countries.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest I thought both of you might get a kick out of reading MSM's description of Hani Hanjour ( spoon fed to them by the FBI) - it's pretty funnny, and even more so considering that at the time we Amerikens ( myself being one of the dumb bunnies) slurped down this stinky poopy crapola like it were sweet tasting syrup.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#186. To: AGAviator, scrapper2, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, HOUNDDAWG, christine, abraxas, Dakmar, James Deffenbach, all (#185)
(Edited)
#187. To: All, *9-11* (#186)
#188. To: AGAviator (#185)
The contention comes from the CT's saying he absolutely had to be a great pilot in order to pull a 1/2 G turn, when just to get a pilot license you need to pull a 2G 360 degree turn + or - 200 feet.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#189. To: AGAviator (#184)
That's what simulators are for. They replicate the entire performance envelope of the craft including risky maneuvers that could cause the plane to crash in real life.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#190. To: FormerLurker, All (#187)
#191. To: wudidiz (#190)
Isn't it odd that the date on the video is Sep. 12?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#192. To: scrapper2 (#183)
(Edited)
Obtained a commercial pilot's license in April 1999 from the Federal Aviation Administration. [ how easy peasy was that?]The license expired six months later because he failed to complete a required medical exam.[ oops - he forgot to do the one single requirement] In 1996, he received flight training for a few months at a private school in Scottsdale, Ariz., but did not finish the course because his instructors thought he was not proficient enough. [ but the FDA thought he was great no questions asked except for needing a physical exam ] He listed his address as a post office box in Taife, Saudi Arabia,[ red flag, red flag - are PO boxes even exist in SA?] but he also has been linked to addresses in San Diego and Hollywood, Fla. His name was not on the American Airlines manifest for the flight because he may not have had a ticket. [ say what????? he just waltzed on the plane 'cause he was a Big Cheese???]
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#193. To: wudidiz (#186)
Even if he did fly it, why weren't the windows broken?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#194. To: AGAviator (#184)
Anonymous self taught internet rubes are far more likely disinformation purveyors than known ATP's with publicly documented 38 year service records and a stack of endorsed log books with tens of thousands of hours of piloting time.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#195. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#188)
Air traffic controllers at Dulles International Airport thought that it was a military aircraft due to the rate of speed the jet flew and its precision turns made while descending, something not that unusual for a fighter, but highly unusual for a commercial airliner.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#196. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#194)
(Edited)
Anonymous self taught internet rubes are far more likely disinformation purveyors than known ATP's with publicly documented 38 year service records and a stack of endorsed log books with tens of thousands of hours of piloting time.
You think yourself smarter and more of an expert than commercial airline pilots, aeronautical engineers, flight instructors, and seasoned air traffic controllers.
So yeah, you are just an Internet rube talking trash
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#197. To: wudidiz (#187)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#198. To: FormerLurker (#193)
It's probably going to be a delayed response since it's a weekend and the Ministry of Truth is understaffed today
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#199. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#198)
(Edited)
#200. To: All (#199)
#201. To: wudidiz (#199)
Translation:
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#202. To: wudidiz (#190)
#203. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, wudidiz, critter, HOUNDDAWG, farmfriend, christine, all (#196)
Both your quotes are footnoted and are from qualified personnel with decades of actually flying airplanes, internet talking rube. Deal with them.
TT = Total [Flight] Time
CA = Captain
FO = First Officer
FE = Flight Engineer
CFI = Certified Flight Instructor
II = Instrument Instructor
MEI = Multiengine Instructor
ASEL = Airplane Single Engine Land
ATP = Airline Transport Pilot
A&P = Aircraft And Powerplant Mechanic
4000TT Commercial, Instrument, Multi, CFI II MEI
Corporate Chief Pilot
135 Capt
121 FO Independence Air/Atlantic Coast Airlines
King Air C-90/200, Dornier 328JET
30,000+ Total Flight Time
707, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777
Pan Am, United
United States Air Force (ret)
Over 100 Combat Missions Flown
Command time in:
- N591UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 93)
- N612UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 175)
UAL Ret.
CEO, Aviation Experts LLC
40 years and 30,000 hrs.
BS Aero
A&P Mech.
B-777/767/757/747/737/727/720/707, DC-10/-9/-8 Type ratings Command time in:
- N591UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 93)
- N612UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 175)
www.AviationExperts.com
23,000 hours
27 years in the airlines
B757/767 for 13 years mostly international Captain with American Airlines.
20 years US Navy flying fighters off aircraft carriers, TopGun twice civilian pilot flying gliders, light airplanes and warbirds Command time in:
- N644AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 77)
- N334AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 11)
Son of Bill Lear
(Founder, creator of the Lear Jet Corporation)
More than 40 years of Flying
19,000+ TT
23 Type ratings
Flight experience includes 707, DC-8, 727, L10-11
-Over 20 years in the USAF
--USAF Accident investigation Board President
--Flew the F-111, T38, and F-15E
--Combat experience in the F-15E includes Desert Storm and four tours of duty in Northern and Southern Watch
--Weapons Requirements Officer, USAF HQ, Pentagon
--Standard and Evaluations Flight Examiner, Command level
-Currently Captain for JetBlue Airways
3,500+ Hours Total Flight Time
F-15E/C, F-111A/D/E/F/EF, F-16, F-18, B-1, Mig-29, SU-22, T-37/38, Various Cvilian Prop
Combat Time: Operation Northern Watch
USAF Fighter Weapons School Instructor
NATO Tactical Leadership Program Instructor/Mission Coordinator
USAF Material Command Weapons Development Test Pilot
Combat Support Coordination Team 2 Airpower Coordinator, South Korea
All Service Combat Identification Evaluation Team Operations Officer
Boeing F-22 Pilot Instructor
MS Aeronautical Studies, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
MS Physics, MS Eng
Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center Served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden
Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award
Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988)
Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics
Associate Fellow - American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA)
Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000
Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems - Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers
Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology
37 year NASA career
23,000+ hours
CV580,DC9,MD80,B727,A320,DC10
NCA,REP,NWA
A4,F4,F16 USN,USMC, ND ANG
www.captainsherlock.com
Forced to retire due 9/11 exposure
www.hawkscafe.com
B737-800/400 Captain
Qantas Airways
Australia
Experience: 18,000 flight hours
ATP 20,000+ hours
Typed in CE-500, DHC-7, EMB-110, BA-3100
Aircraft flown include Boeing 727,737, Douglas DC-9, MD-80
United Air Lines, American International Airlines, Air Pacific Airlines, West Air Airlines
6-7 years corporate flying in Cessna Citations
Factory demo pilot for Cessna Citations
Naval Aviator - Retired Commander, USNR
A/C experience - Grumman E-1 and E-2 ( Approx, 3800 hours )
Pan American World Airways - Retired Dec. 1991 ( that's when PanAM went bankrupt )
Flight Engineer/First Officer -- Boeing 707 & Boeing 727 ( approx. 7500 hours )
President of the Institute for Space and Security Studies
Executive Vice President of Millennium III Corporation
retired Presiding Archbishop of the United Catholic Church
101 combat missions in Vietnam
directed all the “Star Wars” programs under Presidents Ford and Carter
recipient of the Eisenhower Medal
George F. Kennan Peace Prize
President’s Medal of Veterans for Peace
Society of Military Engineers' ROTC Award of Merit (twice)
Six Air Medals
Ph.D. is in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering from Caltech chaired 8 major international conferences
one of the country’s foremost experts on National Security
independent candidate for President of the US in 2000
http://thepatriots.us
#204. To: wudidiz, AGAviator, scrapper2, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, christine, abraxas, Dakmar, James Deffenbach, all (#186)
Even if he did fly it, why weren't the windows broken where the wings would have hit them?
#205. To: HOUNDDAWG (#204)
So, the wings and engines must have been traveling at such incredible folding speeds that the high tensile-multiple alloy engines were literally flattened and liquified on impact with each other inside the plane,
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#206. To: AGAviator (#0)
#207. To: HOUNDDAWG (#204)
9/11 may be summarized thus: As you know, govt spokesmen are rock solid reliable, more so than any inconvenient or "incongruous math calculations or scientific principles."
#208. To: HOUNDDAWG, AGAviator, all, *9-11* (#204)
So, the wings and engines must have been traveling at such incredible folding speeds that the high tensile-multiple alloy engines were literally flattened and liquified on impact with each other inside the plane, and the two large pieces of the now sheared shell followed the same trajectory into the building, all because the main wing struts were able to bend like soft rubber to tangential angles without the wings shearing off the way they do when commercial jets hit trees and all other "steel reinforced hardened concrete bomb proof military headquarters".
#209. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle (#203)
(Edited)
As of the end of 2006, there were 597,109 active certificated pilots, according to the AOPA Jan. 12, 07 newsletter which cites the FAA's estimates. This number has been declining slowly over the long term, down from a high of over 827,000 pilots in 1980. The numbers include:
242 recreational pilots
939 sport pilots
236,148 private pilots
130,234 commercial pilots
144,681 airline transport pilots
10,511 balloon pilots
41,306 rotor (helicopter) pilots
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#210. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#206)
(Edited)
What bothers me about this whole deal, is that the people of this country aren't horrified, or demanding that we immediately cease activity in the region.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#211. To: wudidiz, HOUNDDAWG, (#208)
(Edited)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#212. To: AGAviator, buckeroo, Turtle, *4um PSY-OP Club* (#0)
#213. To: AGAviator (#211)
#214. To: HOUNDDAWG (#204)
(Edited)
Well, you see, the wings struck the steel reinforced concrete along their leading edges close to the fuselage and then they immediately folded up and into the fuselage, similar to the way fighter wings fold before being lowered below deck on carriers.
#215. To: AGAviator, wudidiz, scrapper2, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, christine, abraxas, Dakmar, James Deffenbach (#211)
#216. To: Dakmar (#214)
I don't think you can do that with a 757. It's not even elegant using an A-6 Skyraider.
#217. To: HOUNDDAWG, AGAviator (#215)
And, between your endless fellatio-of-govt-by-proxy sessions do you ever take a breath and ask, "If a picture is worth a thousand words then why are all of the surveillance videos of that day under lock and key?" Simply put, if that doesn't arouse your suspicions and result in forceful demands for justice then you will never have any credibility with honest, patriotic Americans who are capable of adult reasoning and who want the truth.
#218. To: HOUNDDAWG, *9-11*, *Post Of The Day* (#215)
Your intentional omission of the source of the photo is proof that you're aware of the absurdity of offering the govt's word to "prove" that the govt (or Satan, or Jay Pollard or FBI spy Robert Hanssen) isn't lying. The only other possibility is that you really are that fucking dumb, in which case you'd believe your own wife's testimony against you in divorce court: "Well, the little woman has testified and if she said it then it must be true so, there's no need for me to testify, Your Honor!"
I ran out of smart sounding quotes
#219. To: wudidiz, AGAviator, scrapper2, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, christine, abraxas, Dakmar, James Deffenbach, all (#218)
#220. To: HOUNDDAWG (#215)
And, speaking of you, You really are a criminal co-conspirator after the fact, aren't you?
#221. To: christine, buckeroo, turtle (#217)
(Edited)
Any credibility with honest, patriotic Americans who are capable of adult reasoning and who want the truth.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#222. To: AGAviator, christine, HOUNDDAWG, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, all (#221)
why are all of the surveillance videos of that day under lock and key?
I ran out of smart sounding quotes
#223. To: HOUNDDAWG, buckeroo (#215)
You neglected to mention that the second photo was a picture that was released as an exhibit during the Zacarias Moussaoui terrorist trial in 2006 and never seen by any honest observers before that date.
(1) As not to tip off the defense prior to pretrial discovery and conferences, and
(2) The defense in a trial cannot claim the trial was prejudiced by publicity of evidence before the jury was selected and seated. And, speaking of you, You really are a criminal co-conspirator after the fact, aren't you?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#224. To: wudidiz, buckeroo (#222)
That was the question.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#225. To: AGAviator (#221)
People who after 8 1/2 years still cannot come up with any coherent and detailed results of how exactly the USG engineered their conspiracies, while engaging in unceasing attacks against people who don't accept their vague claims, are neither patriotic nor adults.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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