See other 9/11 Articles
Title: WikiLeaks Reveals Al Qaeda Boss Was Seen at Village Meetings - Despite CIA Claims They Were Clueless
Source:
Daily Mail Online
URL Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art ... den-seen-village-meetings.html
Published: Jul 28, 2010
Author: Mail Foreign Service
Post Date: 2010-07-28 15:17:40 by AGAviator
Keywords: None
Views: 4690
Comments: 280
Glimpses of Bin Laden: Now WikiLeaks reveals Al Qaeda boss was seen at village meetings - despite CIA claims that they were clueless By Mail Foreign Service Last updated at 10:16 AM on 27th July 2010 Bin Laden spotted in meeting with Taliban chief in 2006 'Spotted': Among 91,000 leaked U.S. documents are claims that Osama Bin Laden was last seen in 2006 The claims are among 91,000 U.S. military records obtained by whistleblowing website WikiLeaks. Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, said last month that there have been no firm leads on Bin Laden's whereabouts since the 'early 2000s'. But a 'threat report' from the International Security Assistance Force regional command (north) on suicide bombers in August 2006 suggested Bin Laden had been attending regular meetings in villages on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. It said: 'Reportedly a high-level meeting was held where six suicide bombers were given orders for an operation in northern Afghanistan. These meetings take place once every month.' According to the Guardian, which has received the documents, the report went on: 'The top four people in these meetings are Mullah Omar [the Taliban leader], Osama Bin Laden, Mullah Dadullah and Mullah [Baradar].' If true, it could mean forces came close to having the opportunity to wipe out the senior leadership of the Afghan insurgency that has so far claimed the lives of 320 British soldiers. The war logs also show that Bin Laden had a hand in a plot to poison coalition forces by adding a powder to food and drink consumed by troops as they passed through villages. Toll: An Afghan girl in hospital in Helmand after being injured by coalition forces in an air strike in 2007 These documents also suggest coalition forces have killed hundreds of civilians in so-called 'blue on white' incidents which were never reported. The leak is said to be U.S. Army intelligence expert Bradley Manning, 22, who boasted he had downloaded hundreds of thousands of documents, according to computer hacker Adrian Lamo. The 22-year-old, pictured above, is said to have contacted Lamo out of the blue and then claimed he had saved high-security files onto CDs, ready to hand to Wikileaks, while pretending to listen to Lady Gaga. 'Hillary Clinton and several thousand diplomats around the world are going to have a heart attack when they wake up one morning and find an entire repository of classified foreign policy is available, in searchable format, to the public,' he apparently told Mr Lamo. The hacker got in touch with the U.S. military and later met with them in Starbucks to hand over a printout of his conversations with Manning. Manning has already been charged over a separate leak of a classified helicopter cockpit video earlier this month. It showed U.S. soldiers laughing as they gunned down Afghan civilians and two journalists in a firefight in Baghdad in 2007. He was picked up in Iraq, where he was working. Manning is said to be locked up in a military prison after being shipped across the border to Kuwait. He faces trial by court martial and, if found guilty, a heavy jail sentence. Mr Lamo believes Manning did not work alone, saying he did not have ‘the technological expertise’ to carry out the gathering and leaking of the documents. 'I believe somebody would have had to have been of assistance to him,’ he said. They include claims that 16 children were among those shot or bombed in error The leaked military logs also reveal how a secret 'black' unit of crack special forces hunt down Taliban leaders for 'kill or capture' without trial - and voice concerns that Pakistani intelligence and Iran are supporting the insurgents. Downing Street said it 'would lament all unauthorised releases of classified material' and the White House condemned the ' irresponsible' leak of the files. And military and intelligence experts warned yesterday that the leaks could imperil the lives of British forces in Afghanistan. Colonel Stuart Tootal, who in 2006 commanded 3rd Battalion Parachute Regiment in Helmand Province - where more than 320 UK soldiers have been killed - said the information 'could impact on the security of our soldiers'. He insisted Nato forces now put a 'huge emphasis' on avoiding civilian casualties. Tory MP Patrick Mercer, a former Army captain, said: 'Although much of this information is in the public domain, the details are particularly damaging to the credibility of the coalition. 'Our enemies will be quick to exploit the propaganda element of it. 'If there are details of operational matters - locations, equipment, troops movements, resources - then soldiers' lives could be placed at risk.' Details of the secret files, detailing military operations between 2004 and 2009, were published yesterday by the Guardian, New York times and Germany's Der Spiegel while more than 75,000 records were made available on the WikiLeaks website. The files list 144 incidents involving Afghan civilian casualties, in which 195 died and 174 were injured. They detail coalition forces - fearful of suicide bombers - shooting unarmed drivers and civilian motorcyclists, and record an incident when French troops opened fire at a bus full of children because it came too close to a military convoy. Other leaked documents record a U.S. patrol machine-gunning a bus, killing or wounding 15 passengers, and Polish troops mortaring a village, killing a wedding party including a pregnant woman. They reveal details of undercover operations by a U.S. special forces unit named task Force 373, formed to hunt down and kill or capture taliban and Al Qaeda commanders. According to Julian Assange, the founder of the website, the files contain details of 'thousands' of potential war crimes. At a press conference in London, he defended his decision to publish the files and claimed the high level of civilian casualties reported was in fact lower than the true figure because military personnel 'downplayed' the number or reported them as insurgent deaths. Mr Assange said: 'We have tried hard to make sure that this material does not put innocents at harm. 'All the material is over seven months old so it is of no current operational consequence, even though it may be of very significant investigative consequence. 'The revelation of abuse by the U.S. and coalition forces may cause Afghans to be upset, and rightly so. ‘If governments don't like populations being upset, they should treat them better, not conceal abuses.' Professor Malcolm Chalmers, a defence expert at the Royal United Services Institute think tank, said that the leaks could undermine already faltering public support for the war. Read more: Bin Laden Seen Village Meetings Poster Comment: There has never been any proof that Bin Laden has died or been killed. He has repeatedly been reported to be in a very rugged area surrounded by people fiercely loyal to him. OBL is not and has never been in direct command of operations. He sees himself as someone providing motivation and logistical support to people actually carrying out day to day operations.
Al Qaeda boss 'had hand' in plot to poison UK troops
Secret files claim British soldiers shot 16 children
Military experts: leaks could put our troops in peril
Taliban missile brought down Chinook helicopter Secret files leaked about the war in Afghanistan have revealed tantalising glimpses of Osama Bin Laden despite public CIA claims that they are clueless as to the whereabouts of the Al Qaeda boss.
IS THIS SOLDIER BEHIND LEAKS? This fresh-faced soldier could be responsible for leaking a massive file of secret military documents revealing chilling details of the Afghanistan war and civilian deaths.
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-216) not displayed.
.
.
.
#217. To: HOUNDDAWG, AGAviator (#215)
yeah, what about that, Aviator?
pwned indeed. lmao yeah that.
I'm sure that Ass Grabber is consulting with the highest authority in this matter and his response will be forthcoming immediately..... "You already used 'pwned'? Okay, call him a 'Nazi' next...." "As you wish, Rabbi...."
That had to have left a mark.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
And, between your endless fellatio-of-govt-by-proxy sessions "If a picture is worth a thousand words then why are all of the surveillance videos of that day under lock and key?" yeah, what about that, Aviator? What about what? The par-for-the-course fellatio reference? Or the fact that criminal investigation results are not released in their entirety to the general public without a Freeedom of Information request obtained through the court system? Honest patriotic Americans will want to concern themselves with actions they can take in this moment, that will change what is happening here and now. People who after 8 1/2 years still cannot come up with any coherent and detailed results of how exactly the USG engineered their conspiracies, while engaging in unceasing attacks against people who don't accept their vague claims, are neither patriotic nor adults. Instead they waste time, as Noah Chomsky explicity states in my sig line, in diverting what could be useful change into esoteric whodunits that will never get resolved. Which again as Chomsky explicitly states, is why the whodunit purveyors are not pursued by the Establishment, which recognizes them as harmless, irrelevant and even useful in allowing the USG to stay its course with a confused and fragmented opposition. For example, right now the US needs to choose what it will do in Afghanistan. Does it leave entirely? What about the people it has cultivated there, do they get refuge in the US or do they just get left to die. What about Pakistan, what about border controls? Or Iraq, and Saudi Arabia, and Yemen, and Somalia. You people have zero solutions to current issues. Zero. None of you has any answers to these real-life issues because you'd rather spend your time in something which has no solutions and will never be solved. Well, life goes on, and even if you don't want to deal with reality, the majority of the population can and will do so.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That was the question.
Well imagine that. A criminal prosecution that doesn't issue general public press releases of all the evidence it has prior to the trial. So Not only are you ignorant of aviation and construction engineering, you are incapable of even understanding basic concepts of American jurisprudence. No, you're a false front operator agent provocateur attempting without much success to steer the general public into unproductive and unsolvable scenarios that distract from ongoing here and now issues.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Already answered.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's sort of difficult to get those involved to allow investigations to go forward, or get them to admit they were in fact involved. However, we can see how the official story is NOT true, and go from there, calling for a new independent investigation. If enough people wake up, it MIGHT happen. It will not happen if people such as you are successful in convincing the people that they should "move on", and have them forget that what happened that day is the reason the people of this nation lost their freedoms, and this country embarked on wars of adventure and conquest without even being attacked or threatened by those countries.
Here is your answer: "Or the fact that criminal investigation results are not released in their entirety to the general public without a Freeedom of Information request obtained through the court system?" Your answer is incorrect.
There's no statute of limitations on murder. Those guilty and complicit would rather the issue be swept under the carpet.
Yeah right. Reconstructing 9+ year old events taking what, another couple years, with thousands of lives, and trillions of dollars going down the toilet already, and nothing being done to stop any hemorrhaging here and now. You can play in your little sandboxes. Just don't expect too much company.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is when the suspects die of old age while the nut cases cannot even name the suspects or their evidence, and dither around hurling insults and epithets instead of doing a bona fide investigation that will stand on its own two feet instead of being based on arm-waving nit picking of existing investigations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Videos of a historical event which affected the very soul of this nation aren't simply "evidence", they are historical records. As such, being that the events of that day are still used as the rationale for draconian measures such as the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act, those videos MUST be made public. They are not being held in a vault in order to convict bin Laden or anyone else. Such evidence would only confirm the official story, or destroy it. If that story were true, all of the people involved with the Flight 77 hijacking are now dead. IF those tapes did show anything supporting the government story of what happened, it's pretty much a certainty they would have had those videos up on network news the evening of 9/11/2001. More than likely, not only do they not confirm the official story, but expose what really DID happen.
Ideally, this is what would happen; A) A new investigation finds complicity at the highest levels of government, past and present. Now will any of that happen? Probably not, but if it doesn't, the REAL perpetrators of 9/11 aren't only still roaming free, but are possibly planning future attacks as we speak, and those attacks might be MUCH worse than what occured on 9/11/2001.
Absolutely and totally wrong. Buck already posted to you a list of people who have already pleaded guilty and received jail sentences for assisting Hanjour get false identification so as to carry out his hijacking of Flight 77.. There are numerous people who aided and abetted Hanjour's and other Arabs hijacking, without knowing the extent of their plots.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Buck already posted to you a list of people who have already pleaded guilty and received jail sentences for assisting Hanjour get false identification so as to carry out his hijacking of Flight 77.. So why didn't they pull out the tapes for those trials? You know why? It's more than likely because they'd prove those people had nothing to do with the Pentagon attack. As far as the fake ID, I'm surprised you're willing to admit that whoever was claiming to be Hani Hanjour more than likely wasn't. The differences in the facial features between the Dulles Airport video and the other images of Hanjour are significant, proving they are two different people.
Reconstructing 9+ year old events taking what, another couple years, with thousands of lives, and trillions of dollars going down the toilet already, and nothing being done to stop any hemorrhaging here and now. Ideally, this is what would happen And exactly how many posts have the lot of you made - any where any time - regarding those specific solutions, compared to your endless "paid government shill," and when you really get debunked, "butt buddy" comments. You've got quite a few thousand pointless comments to catch up on before anybody not already in your clique will even begin to listen, let alone be persuaded.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No they aren't two different people. Run your claims by someone who identifies people professionally, not amateur photo doctors.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well imagine that. A criminal prosecution that doesn't issue general public press releases of all the evidence it has prior to the trial. So (1) As not to tip off the defense prior to pretrial discovery and conferences, and (2) The defense in a trial cannot claim the trial was prejudiced by publicity of evidence before the jury was selected and seated. That can be characterized in one common colloquialism. It doesn't cut it. There were a multiplicity of photographs of the site published in an attempt to convince the Sheeple that the government fairy tale was really for really true. Withholding that one photograph for trial is simply nonsense and you are attempting to explain it, it's questionable provenance, and convenient arrival away. Just as you try to explain away every other bit of evidence contrary to the "Official Fairy Tale™". And so what is your excuse for, 9 YEARS AFTER THE FACT, the 32 surveillance videos from surrounding sites seized the very afternoon of 911 by the FBI without a warrant, still being kept buried under layers of deep secrecy(and how did they know where EVERY ONE was so quickly? Advance planning?). Under what rationale are the 32 illegally seized videos still being withheld NINE YEARS AFTER THE EVENT? Because they might be needed in a court case? I wonder who the defendants would be if those videos were allowed to see the light of day? Why NINE YEARS AFTER THE FACT are the illegally seized videos being kept buried behind a wall of secrecy? Because they do not corroborate the "Official Fairy Tale™"? I don't pretend to know the answer. However, I do know with utter cold certainty that if those videos did support the "Official Fairy Tale™" that they would have been splashed repeatedly across every television screen in the nation. I also have noted your repeated attempts to avoid addressing these key and central questions. My patience with your repeated lying, spinning, and attempts to offer preposterous excuses for data standing in direct contradiction of the "Official Conspiracy Theory™©®" is long since exhausted. It is become quite clear that you are operating from an agenda, and that agenda is other than the truth. If you really are a citizen of this nation, which I question given that Israeli Intelligence runs the kind of disinformation operation you are part of as well, you are a quisling, guilty of high treason, and if military standing in direct defiance and discredit to your given oath.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
They were all returned (untouched or edited) after official government analysis. You are using eight year old gossip/rumour/BS/hacked crap as a matter of fact.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Horseshit. Your citation of proof is? The videos have NEVER been returned and FOIA requests for them have been turned down citing that wonderful catch all to bury inconvenient evidence "national security". Please explain why evidence which could prove or disprove the "Official Conspiracy Theory™" is still being held deeply buried NINE YEARS AFTER THE FACT? What interest of "national security" is served? Proof that 911 was an inside job conducted with malice aforethought by elements within our own government and military apparatus? I'm sure that those responsible would consider it a security matter as firm proof of complicity guarantees them their own personalized piece of rope.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Sorry charlie... you made the original claim: Prove your allegation. But, of course, we shall see no FACTS, no EVIDENCE, no WITNESSES ... just gossip/rumour and your attempt at eloquent and continuous polysyllabic ramblings.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
BOVINE EXCREMENT!!!!!!!!!!!
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Prove yours. Show us the tapes.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Horseshit. You asserted that ALL of the videos have been released. PROVE IT. It has not occurred and you were L-Y-I-N-G when you said they had.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You smote Aggravator a terrible blow, Dawg. That was great.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Who would that be praytell? Buck of the loose screw perhaps?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. That isn't true at all. I actually indicated that material by private or individual witnesses that was reviewed by official government bodies was released both untouched and unedited. But again, you are playing dumb (as is typical) ... YOU made the allegation: Prove the assertion.... other than some website that has not updated any of its data for eight years.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
O_I: That had to have left a mark. It would have left terrible marks if he was sentient. Fortunately for him that isn't the case.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. PROVE IT. It has not occurred and you were L-Y-I-N-G when you said they had. You don't think it bothers him to lie, do you?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Feel free to tell that to the dozen plus defense attorneys who took guilty pleas intead of more serious charges like being accomplices to mass murders. Or if you don't trust the defense attorneys, go to pro bono legal groups defending "innocent" people from miscarriages of justice. I guarantee you nobody will come near these cases because they have convincing evidence admitted by the defendants that they did in fact aid and abet hijackers with violating US immigration laws, albeit without knowing the ultimate purpose of what the pilot trainee/hijackers wanted to do which was murder thousands of Americans at the instigation of Osama Bin Laden.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maybe they should called a Mexican lawyer, I hear they do pretty well in getting their clients off the hook.
Anyways, where are those videos?
HORSESHIT! 8 Traits of the Disinformationalist Virtually everything about their presentation implies their authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, they're not on this website, and they're not on my PC. So if they're important to you, go find them by some other method than addressing your missives to me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prove the assertion.... other than some website that has not updated any of its data for eight years. Ta-ha!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BOVINE EXCREMENT!!!!!!!!!!! Here is a good summary: The Suppression of Video Footage of the Pentagon Attack Here is the text of the article: The Suppression of Video Footage of the Pentagon Attack It is striking that there is neither video footage nor any photographic evidence in the public domain showing a jetliner approaching or crashing into the Pentagon. As of May, 2006, the only video footage of the crash that has been released are clips from two Pentagon security cameras north of the crash site, one the source of 5 frames leaked in 2002. With the release of the two video clips, the Pentagon claims to have supplied all of the footage it has of the attack. Although the number and positions of security cameras monitoring the Pentagon is not public knowledge, it seems unlikely that only two security cameras captured the attack. Isn't it reasonable to assume that there were dozens, if not hundreds, of security cameras ringing the huge building that is the heart of the United States military establishment? Videos Outside the Pentagon Seized The Sheraton National Hotel may be the hotel from which the FBI seized a CCTV recording. Not only has the government refused to release footage that would clearly show how the Pentagon was attacked, it has also seized footage not belonging to the military. The FBI confiscated video recordings from several private businesses near the Pentagon in the immediate aftermath of the attack. Those recordings, if they still exist, might provide decisive evidence about the attack. * The FBI visited a hotel near the Pentagon to confiscate film from a security camera which some hotel employees had been watching in horror shortly after the attack. The FBI denied that the footage captured the attack. 1 * The FBI visited the Citgo gas station southwest of the Pentagon within minutes of the attack to confiscate film that may have captured the attack. According to Jose Velasquez, who was working at the gas station at the time of the attack, the station's security cameras would have captured the attack. 2 The NEXCOMM/CITGO gas station is just under the flightpath of the aircraft involved in the Pentagon attack. In addition it is likely there is other video footage that was either destroyed or is being withheld, given that the trajectory of the attack plane took it low over a large part of Arlington, Virginia. Lawsuits to Obtain Videos At least two plaintiffs have attempted to obtain videos seized by the FBI, using the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). The first, documented at Flight77.info, began with a request to the FBI in October of 2004. The second, undertaken by the Judicial Watch, Inc. began with a request to the Department of Defense (DOD) in December of 2004. Following is a timeline of the requests and subsequent lawsuits. Entries relating to the second case are distinguished with dates colored gray. * October 14, 2004: Scott A. Hodes, on behalf of his client Scott Bingham, sends a request to David Hardy of the FBI requesting any videos "that may have captured the impact of Flight 77 into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001". The request letter mentions videotapes from the Citgo Gas Station and the Sheraton National Hotel. (1) Video camera recordings obtained by federal official(s) and/or law enforcement from a Nexcomm/Citgo gas station in the vicinity of the Pentagon on or about September 11, 2001. (2) Pentagon security video camera recording(s) showing Flight 77 strike and/or hit and/or crash into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001. (3) Closed Circuit Television (CCTV) video camera recording(s) obtained by any federal official(s) and/or law enforcement from the Virginia Department of Transportation ("VDOT") and/or the VDOT "Smart Traffic Center" on or about September 11, 2001. References 1. Inside the Ring, The Gertz Files, 9/21/01 [cached] "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I am greatly amused. Bloviator is now trying to use Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation as a tool to "catapult the propaganda". Of course he misapplies them and is attempting to use them to misrepresent anything which points out how he is dissembling, avoiding issues, and various other points of disinformation technique as being disinformation. So, I guess one way to dispel the fog he is trying to create is to turn on a fan for him. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Like what, blowhard? "It is the job of a disinfo artist to interfere with these evaluations... to at least make people think the links are weak or broken when, in truth, they are not... or to propose alternative solutions leading away from the truth. Often, by simply impeding and slowing down the process through disinformation tactics, a level of victory is assured because apathy increases with time and rhetoric." For such disinformationalists, the overall aim is to avoid discussing links in the chain of evidence which cannot be broken by truth, but at all times, to use clever deceptions or lies to make select links seem weaker than they are, create the illusion of a break, or better still, cause any who are considering the chain to be distracted in any number of ways, including the method of questioning the credentials of the presenter. Please understand that fact is fact, regardless of the source. Likewise, truth is truth, regardless of the source. This is why criminals are allowed to testify against other criminals. Where a motive to lie may truly exist, only actual evidence that the testimony itself IS a lie renders it completely invalid. Were a known 'liar's' testimony to stand on its own without supporting fact, it might certainly be of questionable value, but if the testimony (argument) is based on verifiable or otherwise demonstrable facts, it matters not who does the presenting or what their motives are, or if they have lied in the past or even if motivated to lie in this instance -- the facts or links would and should stand or fall on their own merit and their part in the matter will merely be supportive. Moreover, particularly with respects to public forums such as newspaper letters to the editor, and Internet chat and news groups, the disinfo type has a very important role. In these forums, the principle topics of discussion are generally attempts by individuals to cause other persons to become interested in their own particular position, idea, or solution -- very much in development at the time. People often use such mediums as a sounding board and in hopes of pollination to better form their ideas. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments (258 - 280) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAnd, between your endless fellatio-of-govt-by-proxy sessions do you ever take a breath and ask, "If a picture is worth a thousand words then why are all of the surveillance videos of that day under lock and key?" Simply put, if that doesn't arouse your suspicions and result in forceful demands for justice then you will never have any credibility with honest, patriotic Americans who are capable of adult reasoning and who want the truth.
#218. To: HOUNDDAWG, *9-11*, *Post Of The Day* (#215)
Your intentional omission of the source of the photo is proof that you're aware of the absurdity of offering the govt's word to "prove" that the govt (or Satan, or Jay Pollard or FBI spy Robert Hanssen) isn't lying. The only other possibility is that you really are that fucking dumb, in which case you'd believe your own wife's testimony against you in divorce court: "Well, the little woman has testified and if she said it then it must be true so, there's no need for me to testify, Your Honor!"
I ran out of smart sounding quotes
#219. To: wudidiz, AGAviator, scrapper2, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, christine, abraxas, Dakmar, James Deffenbach, all (#218)
#220. To: HOUNDDAWG (#215)
And, speaking of you, You really are a criminal co-conspirator after the fact, aren't you?
#221. To: christine, buckeroo, turtle (#217)
(Edited)
Any credibility with honest, patriotic Americans who are capable of adult reasoning and who want the truth.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#222. To: AGAviator, christine, HOUNDDAWG, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, all (#221)
why are all of the surveillance videos of that day under lock and key?
I ran out of smart sounding quotes
#223. To: HOUNDDAWG, buckeroo (#215)
You neglected to mention that the second photo was a picture that was released as an exhibit during the Zacarias Moussaoui terrorist trial in 2006 and never seen by any honest observers before that date.
(1) As not to tip off the defense prior to pretrial discovery and conferences, and
(2) The defense in a trial cannot claim the trial was prejudiced by publicity of evidence before the jury was selected and seated. And, speaking of you, You really are a criminal co-conspirator after the fact, aren't you?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#224. To: wudidiz, buckeroo (#222)
That was the question.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#225. To: AGAviator (#221)
People who after 8 1/2 years still cannot come up with any coherent and detailed results of how exactly the USG engineered their conspiracies, while engaging in unceasing attacks against people who don't accept their vague claims, are neither patriotic nor adults.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#226. To: AGAviator, christine, HOUNDDAWG, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, all (#224)
Already answered.
I ran out of smart sounding quotes
#227. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#225)
I ran out of smart sounding quotes
#228. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#225)
However, we can see how the official story is NOT true, and go from there, calling for a new independent investigation.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#229. To: wudidiz (#227)
There's no statute of limitations on murder.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#230. To: AGAviator, HOUNDDAWG, wudidiz, buckeroo (#223)
A criminal prosecution that doesn't issue general public press releases of all the evidence it has prior to the trial.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#231. To: AGAviator, buckeroo, turtle, ALL (#228)
Reconstructing 9+ year old events taking what, another couple years, with thousands of lives, and trillions of dollars going down the toilet already, and nothing being done to stop any hemorrhaging here and now.
B) Congress authorizes a special law enforcement unit, similar to the FBI, but with the authority to arrest any government official involved, with the power to hold them till their trials.
C) Congress withdraws troops from Iraq and Afghanistan immediately.
D) Any foreign official or private individual involved be extradited to this country.
E) Any foreign government involved be seen as an enemy to this nation, and war be declared against them.
F) Private individuals in this country who are involved be arrested and held till their trials.
G) All secret and not so secret "terror" prisons be immediately shutdown, except for Gitmo perhaps, where the REAL terrorists who planned and executed these attacks be held till their trials.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#232. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#230)
If that story were true, all of the people involved with the Flight 77 hijacking are now dead.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#233. To: AGAviator (#232)
Absolutely and totally wrong.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#234. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#231)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#235. To: FormerLurker (#233)
The differences in the facial features between the Dulles Airport video and the other images of Hanjour are significant, proving they are two different people.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#236. To: AGAviator, HOUNDDAWG, wudidiz, FormerLurker, IRTorqued, Eric Stratton, HAPPY2BEME4UM, christine, Dakmar, all (#223)
(Edited)
You neglected to mention that the second photo was a picture that was released as an exhibit during the Zacarias Moussaoui terrorist trial in 2006 and never seen by any honest observers before that date.
In a related vein:
Why NINE YEARS AFTER THE FACT are the Air Traffic Controllers still held under a gag order?
#237. To: Original_Intent (#236)
Why NINE YEARS AFTER THE FACT are the illegally seized videos being kept buried behind a wall of secrecy?
#238. To: buckeroo, wudidiz, HOUNDDAWG, FormerLurker, christine, all (#237)
#239. To: Original_Intent (#238)
Your citation of proof is?
Why NINE YEARS AFTER THE FACT are the illegally seized videos being kept buried behind a wall of secrecy?
#240. To: buckeroo, all (#237)
They were all returned (untouched or edited) after official government analysis
#241. To: buckeroo (#239)
Prove your allegation
#242. To: buckeroo (#239)
Why NINE YEARS AFTER THE FACT are the illegally seized videos being kept buried behind a wall of secrecy?
#243. To: HOUNDDAWG (#215)
No, you cannot sell your crock 'o shit here because we ain't on the payroll and we ain't part of the secret homosexual pedophile cabal that is the US Government.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#244. To: HOUNDDAWG (#219)
I'm sure that Ass Grabber is consulting with the highest authority in this matter
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#245. To: Original_Intent (#242)
Horseshit. You asserted that ALL of the videos have been released.
Why NINE YEARS AFTER THE FACT are the illegally seized videos being kept buried behind a wall of secrecy?
#246. To: Original_Intent, HOUNDDAWG (#220)
HOUNDDAWG: And, speaking of you, You really are a criminal co-conspirator after the fact, aren't you?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#247. To: Original_Intent (#242)
Horseshit. You asserted that ALL of the videos have been released.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#248. To: Original_Intent (#236)
#249. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#233)
So why didn't they pull out the tapes for those trials? You know why? It's more than likely because they'd prove those people had nothing to do with the Pentagon attack.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#250. To: AGAviator (#249)
I guarantee you nobody will come near these cases because they have convincing evidence admitted by the defendants that they did in fact aid and abet hijackers with violating US immigration laws, albeit without knowing the ultimate purpose of what the pilot trainee/hijackers wanted to do which was murder thousands of Americans at the instigation of Osama Bin Laden.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#251. To: AGAviator (#249)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#252. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo (#236)
(Edited)
That can be characterized in one common colloquialism.
(1) Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#253. To: FormerLurker, buckerooo (#251)
Anyways, where are those videos?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#254. To: buckeroo (#245)
secrecy?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#255. To: abraxas, Buckmonster Fullofit, wuddiz, HOUNDDAWG, FormerLurker, IRTorqued, Dakmar, Critter, christine, AGBloviator, all (#240)
They were all returned (untouched or edited) after official government analysis
* November 3, 2004: The FBI replies to Bingham's request stating that their search "revealed no record responsive to your FOIA request".
* November 17, 2004: Hodes files an appeal of Bingham's FOIA request with the U.S Department of Justice (DOJ), citing evidence that the videotapes mentioned in the original request exist.
* December 15, 2004: Christopher J. Farrell of Judicial Watch, Inc. writes to James Hogan in the Office of Freedom of Information/Security Review of the DOD requesting that the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS), DOD, and FBI produce:
any and all agency records concerning, relating to, or reflecting the following subjects:
* March 7, 2005: The DOJ replies to Hodes' November 17 appeal, admitting that it did possess records responsive to the request but that it could release the records because such a release "could reasonably be expected to interfere with law enforcement proceedings." * January 26, 2005: The DOD advises Judicial Watch, Inc. that it possesses a videotape responsive to the December 15, 2004 request but declines to produce the videotape, citing U.S.C 552(b)(7)(A).
* March 8, 2005: Bingham's attorney files a lawsuit with the United States District Court for the District of Columbia stating that the FBI is in violation of the FOIA for "failing to adequately respond to plaintiff's FOIA request, including failing to adequately search for and release records that the plaintiff believes the agency is in possession of, and for failing to timely respond to the plaintiff's administrative appeal."
* April 18, 2005: The DOJ files a response to Bingham's March 8 lawsuit denying the plaintiff's request and asking the judge to dismiss the plaintiff's Complaint with prejudice.
* April 19, 2005: District Judge Paul L. Friedman orders the defendants to file a motion to dismiss or a motion for summary judgment in the case brought by Bingham on or before June 21, 2005.
* June 10, 2005: The DOD denies Judicial Watch's administrative appeal, claiming that the video is exempt as part of an ongoing investigation involving Zacarias Moussaoui.
* August 1, 2005: Jeffrey D. Kahn, an attorney for the DOJ's Civil Division files a 23-page MEMORANDUM OF POINTS AND AUTHORITIES IN SUPPORT OF DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT. Scans of the document are posted on Flight77.info.
* August 29, 2005: Hodes files a Memorandum of Points and Authorities in Support of Plaintiff's Opposition to Defendants' Motion for Summary Judgment and a STATEMENT OF FACT ON WHICH THERE EXIST A GENUINE ISSUE TO BE LITIGATED in response to the DOJ's motion for summary judgment. * September 9, 2005: Kahn files a REPLY BRIEF IN FURTHER SUPPORT OF DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
* September 9, 2005: Special Agent Jacqueline Maguire of the FBI's Counterterrorism Division files a DECLARATION describing her search for records responsive to Bingham's FOIA request. Maguire admits to determining that 85 videotapes in the FBI's possession are "potentially responsive" the request, that she personally viewed 29 of the tapes, and that she located only one videotape that showed the impact of Flight 77 into the Pentagon. Maguire also refers to "one videotape taken from a closed circuit television at a Doubletree Hotel in Arlington Virginia," but states that it did not show the impact of Flight 77.
* September 26, 2005: Hodes files a request seeking "copies of 85 videotapes in the possession of the FBI described in the declaration of Special Agent Jacqueline Maguire dated September 7, 2005.
* October 20, 2005: The DOJ sends a letter to Hodes claiming that the requested material is exempt.
* October 24, 2005: Hodes appeals the DOJ's October 20 claim that its material is exempt.
* February 22, 2006: Judicial Watch, Inc. files a lawsuit in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia seeking declaratory and injunctive relief against the Department of Defense for its refusal to disclose records sought under the FOIA request.
* May 5, 2006: Judge Friedman orders the defendants to show cause on or before May 26, 2006 why their motion for summary judgment should not be denied as moot, noting that the criminal proceedings against Moussaoui have ended.
* May 16, 2006: Judicial Watch obtains two videos from the DOD, and posts them on their website. The site is down for about half of the day due to demand. * September 15, 2006: Judicial Watch announces the release of video from CITGO gas station. 3 The video consists mostly of views of the interior of the gas station and does not appear to capture the attack.
* December 2, 2006: Judicial Watch obtains a video recording from the Doubletree Hotel in Arlington. The video, which does not include a view of the Pentagon's facade, shows an explosion but does not capture an approaching jetliner. 4
2. Three Months On, Tension Lingers Near the Pentagon, Richmond Times-Dispatch, 12/11/01 [cached]
3. CITGO Gas Station Cameras Near Pentagon Evidently Did Not Capture Attack, JudicialWatch.org, 9/15/06 [cached]
4. Hotel security video shows 9/11 Pentagon blast, but no plane, CNN.com, 12/2/06 [cached]
#256. To: FormerLurker, AGBloviator, AGAviator, all (#251)
#257. To: OInk, buckeroo, turtle (#256)
Of course he misapplies them and is attempting to use them to misrepresent anything which points out how he is dissembling, avoiding issues, and various other points of
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
.
.
.