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Title: WikiLeaks Reveals Al Qaeda Boss Was Seen at Village Meetings - Despite CIA Claims They Were Clueless
Source:
Daily Mail Online
URL Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art ... den-seen-village-meetings.html
Published: Jul 28, 2010
Author: Mail Foreign Service
Post Date: 2010-07-28 15:17:40 by AGAviator
Keywords: None
Views: 5062
Comments: 280
Glimpses of Bin Laden: Now WikiLeaks reveals Al Qaeda boss was seen at village meetings - despite CIA claims that they were clueless By Mail Foreign Service Last updated at 10:16 AM on 27th July 2010 Bin Laden spotted in meeting with Taliban chief in 2006 'Spotted': Among 91,000 leaked U.S. documents are claims that Osama Bin Laden was last seen in 2006 The claims are among 91,000 U.S. military records obtained by whistleblowing website WikiLeaks. Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, said last month that there have been no firm leads on Bin Laden's whereabouts since the 'early 2000s'. But a 'threat report' from the International Security Assistance Force regional command (north) on suicide bombers in August 2006 suggested Bin Laden had been attending regular meetings in villages on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. It said: 'Reportedly a high-level meeting was held where six suicide bombers were given orders for an operation in northern Afghanistan. These meetings take place once every month.' According to the Guardian, which has received the documents, the report went on: 'The top four people in these meetings are Mullah Omar [the Taliban leader], Osama Bin Laden, Mullah Dadullah and Mullah [Baradar].' If true, it could mean forces came close to having the opportunity to wipe out the senior leadership of the Afghan insurgency that has so far claimed the lives of 320 British soldiers. The war logs also show that Bin Laden had a hand in a plot to poison coalition forces by adding a powder to food and drink consumed by troops as they passed through villages. Toll: An Afghan girl in hospital in Helmand after being injured by coalition forces in an air strike in 2007 These documents also suggest coalition forces have killed hundreds of civilians in so-called 'blue on white' incidents which were never reported. The leak is said to be U.S. Army intelligence expert Bradley Manning, 22, who boasted he had downloaded hundreds of thousands of documents, according to computer hacker Adrian Lamo. The 22-year-old, pictured above, is said to have contacted Lamo out of the blue and then claimed he had saved high-security files onto CDs, ready to hand to Wikileaks, while pretending to listen to Lady Gaga. 'Hillary Clinton and several thousand diplomats around the world are going to have a heart attack when they wake up one morning and find an entire repository of classified foreign policy is available, in searchable format, to the public,' he apparently told Mr Lamo. The hacker got in touch with the U.S. military and later met with them in Starbucks to hand over a printout of his conversations with Manning. Manning has already been charged over a separate leak of a classified helicopter cockpit video earlier this month. It showed U.S. soldiers laughing as they gunned down Afghan civilians and two journalists in a firefight in Baghdad in 2007. He was picked up in Iraq, where he was working. Manning is said to be locked up in a military prison after being shipped across the border to Kuwait. He faces trial by court martial and, if found guilty, a heavy jail sentence. Mr Lamo believes Manning did not work alone, saying he did not have ‘the technological expertise’ to carry out the gathering and leaking of the documents. 'I believe somebody would have had to have been of assistance to him,’ he said. They include claims that 16 children were among those shot or bombed in error The leaked military logs also reveal how a secret 'black' unit of crack special forces hunt down Taliban leaders for 'kill or capture' without trial - and voice concerns that Pakistani intelligence and Iran are supporting the insurgents. Downing Street said it 'would lament all unauthorised releases of classified material' and the White House condemned the ' irresponsible' leak of the files. And military and intelligence experts warned yesterday that the leaks could imperil the lives of British forces in Afghanistan. Colonel Stuart Tootal, who in 2006 commanded 3rd Battalion Parachute Regiment in Helmand Province - where more than 320 UK soldiers have been killed - said the information 'could impact on the security of our soldiers'. He insisted Nato forces now put a 'huge emphasis' on avoiding civilian casualties. Tory MP Patrick Mercer, a former Army captain, said: 'Although much of this information is in the public domain, the details are particularly damaging to the credibility of the coalition. 'Our enemies will be quick to exploit the propaganda element of it. 'If there are details of operational matters - locations, equipment, troops movements, resources - then soldiers' lives could be placed at risk.' Details of the secret files, detailing military operations between 2004 and 2009, were published yesterday by the Guardian, New York times and Germany's Der Spiegel while more than 75,000 records were made available on the WikiLeaks website. The files list 144 incidents involving Afghan civilian casualties, in which 195 died and 174 were injured. They detail coalition forces - fearful of suicide bombers - shooting unarmed drivers and civilian motorcyclists, and record an incident when French troops opened fire at a bus full of children because it came too close to a military convoy. Other leaked documents record a U.S. patrol machine-gunning a bus, killing or wounding 15 passengers, and Polish troops mortaring a village, killing a wedding party including a pregnant woman. They reveal details of undercover operations by a U.S. special forces unit named task Force 373, formed to hunt down and kill or capture taliban and Al Qaeda commanders. According to Julian Assange, the founder of the website, the files contain details of 'thousands' of potential war crimes. At a press conference in London, he defended his decision to publish the files and claimed the high level of civilian casualties reported was in fact lower than the true figure because military personnel 'downplayed' the number or reported them as insurgent deaths. Mr Assange said: 'We have tried hard to make sure that this material does not put innocents at harm. 'All the material is over seven months old so it is of no current operational consequence, even though it may be of very significant investigative consequence. 'The revelation of abuse by the U.S. and coalition forces may cause Afghans to be upset, and rightly so. ‘If governments don't like populations being upset, they should treat them better, not conceal abuses.' Professor Malcolm Chalmers, a defence expert at the Royal United Services Institute think tank, said that the leaks could undermine already faltering public support for the war. Read more: Bin Laden Seen Village Meetings Poster Comment: There has never been any proof that Bin Laden has died or been killed. He has repeatedly been reported to be in a very rugged area surrounded by people fiercely loyal to him. OBL is not and has never been in direct command of operations. He sees himself as someone providing motivation and logistical support to people actually carrying out day to day operations.
Al Qaeda boss 'had hand' in plot to poison UK troops
Secret files claim British soldiers shot 16 children
Military experts: leaks could put our troops in peril
Taliban missile brought down Chinook helicopter Secret files leaked about the war in Afghanistan have revealed tantalising glimpses of Osama Bin Laden despite public CIA claims that they are clueless as to the whereabouts of the Al Qaeda boss.
IS THIS SOLDIER BEHIND LEAKS? This fresh-faced soldier could be responsible for leaking a massive file of secret military documents revealing chilling details of the Afghanistan war and civilian deaths.
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#64. To: FormerLurker (#5)
(Edited)
Well, here is a dialysis machine that runs on camel power. We found dozens of them stationed all over the mountains in remote villages so MR. BIG can sleep in a different place each night like Yasser (That's My Baby!) Arafat used to do.
Not according to the people who actually spent thousands of man-hours researching the attacks. It is only unproven to you because you wish to ignore those conclusions without having any conclusions to replace them. Fot at least the 15th time, a 1/2 G turn is not beyond the skill of even a private pilot, while Hanjour at one time had a commercial pilot license. As a commercial pilot before he let his medical lapse Hanjour was authorized to become type certified by taking simulator lessons. For at least the 15th time, the principal instructor and person refusing to rent to Hanjour, Marcel Bernard, said there "was no doubt" Hanjour could have piloted a hijacked aircraft and crashed into a building with it. Bernard also confirms the biggest reason Hanjour was declined was Hanjour's failure to land the test plane by himself, which I repeatedly have said Your repeated failure to cite evidence that doesn't support your theory, even though it's found in the exact same places you cherry pick your quotes from, shows a consistent pattern of intellectual dishonesty. And "there is no doubt" that you are neglecting this piece of information because it undermines the theory you're trying to push. Hanjour paid $400 cash and provided a valid pilot's license He failed because he showed problems landing the airplane and the flight instructor had to help him, Bernard said. But Hanjour's problems were nothing unusual, Bernard said. “There’s no doubt in my mind that once (Flight 77) got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it.” ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And the instructors who did have personal experience with Hanjour said that it was his landings, which I have told you over and over again are the most difficult parts of piloting, and which he as a suicide hijacker wouldn't be interested in anyway, that he was "unable to fly safely" doing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, I think I hurt your tender little feelings AGain. lol Didn't you say you need to find a "more productive" site where posters will appreciate you? Speaking of lying, aren't you the one cherry picking truther sites for a piece of data to make an argument, then making yawner shoot the messenger posts about the people contributing to those sites? Why yes, that IS you. One need not dig much deeper than your source links to debunk you. And, yes, the database confirms, I'm laughing at you, mostly because your ego is too big to laugh with you and because you are sooooooooo emotional. Might I suggest a Midol? Poor Toots can't even persuade other posters that they like him, no matter how much spittle hits his monitor.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
According to one report the flight computer was turned off mid flight, had its destination changed, turned back on after course change. No, YOU are wrong. The NTSB chart indicates that the autopilot was engaged the entire time the "hijackers" turned the plane around over Ohio, and set it to fly towards Washington DC. A little before reaching the midway point between Ohio and Washington, it was turned off momentarily, the course was corrected as it was a bit off, and then turned back on. Not an obvious set of commands for someone who doesn't know the first thing about a Boeing 757 flight management computer. So somebody knew enough to know when the computer should be turned off, why it should be turned off, how to turn it off, how to change the computer programming, how to turn it back on after the changes. That speaks of someone who knew how to use the computer. You dont't really "shut off the computer", it is responsible for controlling critical aircraft systems. Turning off the autopilot is a function of the flight management computer, but you don't turn it off to do that. And as I said, the autopilot was NOT disengaged when a new course for Washington was entered into the computer, whoever flew it knew enough about the sytem as to utilize the computer correctly. Thing is, Hanjour had never laid his eyes on a Boeing 757 flight management computer his entire life, so it couldn't have been him that did all that. He couldn't have learned it on a simulator, since he tried taking lessons on a 737 simulator which besides utilizing a totally different flight managment system from the 757, he usually skipped class and when he WAS present, did extremely poorly since he could barely understand English, and he was a very poor student as well as a very poor "pilot" to begin with.
No, YOU are wrong. [quote]It was turned off momentarily, the course was corrected as it was a bit off, and then turned back on[/quote] Exactly what I said.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, I think I hurt your tender little feelings... No, pants on fire Half Tw00fer, as usual you cherry pick and ignore any words in a quote that will make you look like the SOS you are. The computer confirms you're a Half Truther half wit, making up one excuse after another why something you've just said you do, is contradicted by what you actually do. Like putting out thousands of words to someone you "don't care about," oh wait a minute I replied to your thousands of words so that's supposed to mean something, oh wait a minute I cite the extent of your lying by quickly looking at posting records, so that means I'm stalking you, oh wait a minute, your thousands of words are because you're laughing at me... AGAviator posted on 2010-07-29 2:13:26 ET ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You only need 1 signal and a radius along with a distance measurement. Two radials are only needed when you don't have distance and a Course Deviation Indicator which tells you exactly what heading you need to be on, as well as exactly how far to the nautical mile distance you are at any moment. Granted a VORTAC aid will give you your bearing in terms of where the plane is in relation to the VORTAC transmitter, ie. distance and heading in relation to the VORTAC station. Ok, so I guess I was looking up some older info in terms of using two VORTAC stations to triangulate current position. You still need to plot your course using your current position as determined by the VORTAC and a navigational map, taking your current air speed into account in order to determine where you'll be in several minutes (waypoint). THEN, once your new heading is determined, you can change the heading once you've hit the location you've calculated as your waypoint and utilize the VORTAC to guide you to your new destination. It won't determine the new course for you obviously, you need to do that yourself. Hanjours instructors said he had very poor navigational skills, so I doubt he could have done all that if he needed to, but he obviously didn't need to since the plane was flown on autopilot, thus utilizing the flight management computer.
Exactly what I said. But that is AFTER the initial course change was made, so not only did the operator of the aircraft know how to change the course on the computer while the autopilot was active, but knew how to disengage the autopilot, use some other navigational aid, make a course correction, then reengage autopilot.
There is close to zero hard evidence that Hanjour was piloting that plane, if even that much. There IS a LOT of evidence which indicates he couldn't have possibly piloted the aircraft, due to his lack of skill, and his extremely poor airmanship. Bernard said. “There’s no doubt in my mind that once (Flight 77) got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it.” He either apparently thought that Hanjour had hijacked the aircraft upon takeoff from Dulles and crashed it into the roof of the Pentagon, or he lied, since it took QUITE a bit more than just "pointing the aircraft at the Pentagon" to fly a 757 from Ohio, descend, perform some tight manuevers comparable to that of a military aircraft, then fly at treetop level at over 400 mph, dropping to 20 feet off the ground at 530 mph without touching the Pentagon lawn and hitting the 71 foot tall Pentagon wall.
I appreciate the candor. I have flown craft hundreds of miles using one VORTAC without using any Flight Computers. If you're interested in the arrival time. If you want to get there ASAP before any possible interception you'd just concentrate on heading in the right direction and getting ready for the crash. People making aircraft equipment for larger planes try to make them as simple as possible to use, not as complicated. That's why I've been consistently saying it's harder to fly a small craft without the equipment than the larger planes which have it. This is also why the Chief Instructor who wouldn't rent the 172 to Hanjour, said his lack of small plane skills while having a commercial certificate wasn't that unusual. Some large aircraft have flown untended for several hours and without pilot oversight. The pilots were tired and let the autopilots do the work. They were punished when this was found out, but the planes flew safely. You can't get away with this on a small craft.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Even though that in itself isn't true, since Hanjour couldn't do much of anything right, according to Bernard's own employees, Hanjour didn't just LAND the aircraft, he came down over the Pentagon lawn at 530 mph and descended to 20 feet off the ground, where if his wheels were down they would have touched the lawn. Aircraft are not designed to land at 530 mph, yet that is basically what Hanjour allegedly did, on a heavy multi-engine jumbo jet, yet he had never flown ANY sort of jet before in his life. Here's the actual reports concerning Bernard and what his employees said; From Al Qaeda’s Top Gun You're neglecting the part where you need to know what IS the heading you need to fly. You can't just pick a number from 0 to 359 and fly that direction. That's why there's such a thing called NAVIGATION. You should be smart enough to know that.
Ok, since it's so simple, please detail the steps required to change the course on a Boeing 757 flight management computer while autopilot is engaged.
If you can't control a single engine Cessna 172, you won't be able to control a multi-engine Piper Apache, yet that is what Hanjour supposedly tested on for his Commercial License. Multi-engine craft require more knowledge and more skill to fly, since you have more than just one engine that provides forward thrust, and that thrust needs to be tuned properly in order for the aircraft to handle the various situations it'll encounter during flight. He never was qualified to fly ANY sort of aircraft to begin with, but the fact he couldn't control a Cessna 172 indicates he could NEVER in a million years control a heavy multi-engine jumbo jet, especially considering he never flew ANY sort of jet before in his life.
Yes, and they KNEW how to fly the aircraft, were qualified on that aircraft, and were of course fully aware of how to use the flight management computer and how to engage autopilot.
Boeing 757 Simulator Program Website Knock yourself out.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's where the Course Deviation Indicator comes in. You get the radial from the VORTAC that gives you zero deviation right or left and compare the heading of the aircraft with it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LOL, you STILL NEED TO KNOW THE COURSE in order to set the equipment to guide you on that course. What are you suggesting, that it read Hanjour's mind and knew where he wanted to go? C'mon dude, give it up.
So it's not that simple is it. Hanjour had never trained on a 757 flight simulator, and never sat in the cockpit of ANY jet before in his life. He was an extremely poor student who frequently skipped class when he DID pay for flight simulator time on a 737 flight simulator, which has a different flight management system than a 757 and 767. Besides skipping classes and not doing his homework, he could barely understand the instructors when he WAS there, and had such poor skills, he was told he should just give it up. He did eventually flunk out of that simulator training, so there is no real chance that he was this ace operator who would have known how to utilize a system he had never seen before in his life.
lol.....this is what you do CONSTANTLY. It's funny how you point out in others what is fundamentally YOUR flaw. What's an SOS? Must be a sack of shit, eh? Did you ping Christine to your post and turn yourself in? No, that's not something a lying little hypocrite like you would EVER do. Whine, snivel, tattle and complain while you do all that you claim to protest. Yet, you think this goes unnoticed by the lot of us. lol What do you intend to accomplish with reposting your BS post anyway? Is it supposed to prove something? If you actually fetch my posts to you, it will be blatently obvious to the lot of us, even you, that I enjoy making fun of you and your massively inflated ego, which should never be construed as feeling anything FOR you. I know, another blow to your ego. Sniff, sniff. lol How is that search for a "more productive" site coming along? : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
come on! bucky only needs to know the official fairy tale talking points.
Somehow, for some strange reason, I must admit that I am not impressed by slavering credulousness.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
19. To: buckeroo (#17) So explain to us what YOU are doing to show you care buck. Are you leading some sort of political rally to fire the people up, or just sitting at home bitching at people who discuss this sort of thing? FormerLurker posted on 2010-07-28 #21. To: FormerLurker (#19) Oh sure, its all my fault while you while the hours away on a chit-chat channel believing in government conspiracies... man, you are so ignorant, you should be regarded as a PURE puke when ANYONE viewing own posts. You NEVER address the real issues.. an apathetic people built upon WW2... and you believe in conspiracies while the voters strip you of not just dignity but RIGHTS... meanwhile you believe some BS about government creating 9/11. You are off-topic. You are full of BS. #28. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#19) AGAviator posted on 2010-07-28 19:16:53 ET So where does "tuning them out and proceed to places" translate into "search for a 'more productive' site" scheisskopf? For about the 5th time, does a idiot who's spent all day addressing the same old messages to someone she(it) doesn't care about have any grasp of English? Clearly not.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- seems AGovshill suffers from megalomania along with factaphobia.
Wow, you seem to be sort of a stalker, dude. What's up with that? Upset that I totally tore to shreds your attempts to paint us as fools?
Proceed to places..........as in MOVE ON, MOVE ALONG, PROGRESS, FORGE AHEAD, GO. Speaking of idiot, you really should pull out your dictionary and ascertain the meaning of the words you opt to use. LOL.......the irony of YOU telling ME to grasp English. I know, you are attempting to sneak in another diversion from your idiocy, but it's not going to work. Not all day, a moment here and a moment there, to have a good laugh at you and your massive ego. It really doesn't take much time or effort. What's up with throwing in all the FL posts in the mix? Attempting to be wordy via plagiarism is lame, AGABLOWviator. Can't you come up with anything original? Even the other half of your dynamic duo wants no part of this grasping at straws you continue to engage in. Don't let that stop you from pinging him to your ineptness. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
for all we know hanjour is still an incompetent pilot who can at best handle straight and level.
lol.......
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
so then where is the video you flat out liar of the liar movement?
for all we know hanjour is still an incompetent pilot who can at best handle straight and level. In a single engine Cessna 172 - maybe.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
So you in your lambrain believe you and about maybe 10 other CT's have a death grip on this site, and every thread therein? Well, you are consistently delusional about the extent of your influence here and in the world at large. Another example of how you, a Half Truther, conflate something you pick out of context to mean what you want it to, instead of what it says.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So why DID you refer to me in your sermon on how this site operates?
lol.......look Toots (hehehe), you said it, not me. I'm just encouraging your thoughts about moving along. It's really simple. I think even you can grasp it......maybe, if you try REAL hard and concentrate with all your might. I've clubbed you upside your head with a clue by four multiple times, so I realize what a massive challenge this is for you. Nobody is talking about my influence. Nobody is discussing any "death grip" either. My you are delusional. Do you hear voices and have imaginary friends too? Out of context? Conflate something? Er, hello!! Earth to AGABLOWviator. You cut and pasted several FL posts into your last diatribe to me. For what purpose, I do not know. It's right on the thread, not out of context, not conflated........just suspected plagiarism. lol
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Seems like I fascinate AGAviator, he cuts and pastes my posts as if they were epic. Thing is, he doesn't take the ones that ARE pretty informational, he just takes my posts to ole buck and posts them as if that's the entire aspect of what's been said. Of course he doesn't refer to the ones where I've totally ripped apart his story or diversions, he just takes the ones I've posted to his sidekick in a conversational back and forth.
You keep repeating the SOS with zero proof alleging any and all available evidence is wrong, without being able to supply anything sother than arm-waving denials of your own. Repetition does not make proof except perhaps to you and a few self-hypnotized Six Percenters. A 1/2 G descending turn is not even beyond the capability of a student pilot. A holder of a commercial pilot certificate can become completely type certified using flight simulators. Flight computer are made for safety and ease of use, not for difficulty. More basic aircraft without flight computers are more difficult to fly and maneuver than aircraft provided with flight computers. This is why ATP pilots wishing to go out for rides in smaller single engine craft must frequently get retrained and why the Chief Instructor said that Hanjour's need for training was "not that unsusual" which as usual you leave out of your cut and pick quotes. 19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, you're encouraging your own thoughts, Toots. With about as much effect as you encourage thinking in anybody else - zero. Your hot flashes of me moving to another site because of the delusions of 10 people on this site are the delusions. No, but as someone who posts all day long about laughing to yourself to someone you say is unimportant to you and you don't care at all about, you need to make sure Obama's budget has funding for drop-in mental health centers and lots of free Zoloft down the street you push your shopping cart on.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Says the idiot whose listings of posts to me take up 7 full screens. Do you know how to use the site poster search feature, imbecile? Try it sometime. From: FormerLurker To: AGAviator ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good luck!! Happy trails!! Namaste!! Adios!! Proceed to places where discussion will have more productive results for you. Don't delay, act NOW. Run, run like the wind. God Speed!! LOL! I second that. Aggravator and buck need to go where their fount of wisdumb will be appreciated more by their fellow establishment shills and toadies.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. lol.....what hot flashes? Now, ten more people have delusions? Your projection is comical and compounding. I thought we agreed that you are "Toots". I'm not just laughing to myself, as others find my commentary comical as well. It's only you who fails to appreciate my comedy. Unlike you, I'm not promoting Obama's budget, agenda or 911 fairy tales. That's your job and I have no intention of moving in on THAT game. You will have to find somebody else to "make sure" the drop-in mental health centers and free Zoloft are available for you. Good luck with that. As for me, I'll continue with simple encouragement to help you find your way to more productive discourse. Now, you are dragging Turtle into reading your drivel I see. Don't you realize he is working hard on a campaign to wipe out short men and sleep with all the women? Even the other half of your dynamic duo, Buck, has better things to do than read your drivel. As for me, keep it coming as it provides bountiful comic relief and takes only moment to adddress.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestYes, so where is the supporting evidence that bin Laden really is still alive?
#65. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo (#61)
(Edited)
It is not proven even that Hanjour was behind the stick and that is at best an unproven hypothesis.
And the maneuvers that plane went through are well beyond any skill evidenced by Hanjour
AT any time on a type of aircraft which he was incompetent to fly
Never in fact had he ever flown anything larger than a twin engine, propeller driven, 4 seat, Piper Apache, and by the testimony of his instructors who uniformly, without exception, characterized him as anywhere from barely able to fly a single engine propeller driven Cessna 172 to unable to even safely fly that.
(a) Is the most difficult part of piloting, and
(b) "Was not unusual," and
(c) Was not something a suicide hijacker would be interested in practicing much."The standard evaluation consists of one-to-one-and- a-half-hour flights east over the Chesapeake Bay area.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#66. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo (#61)
The testimony of his instructors who uniformly, without exception, characterized him as anywhere from barely able to fly a single engine propeller driven Cessna 172 to unable to even safely fly that
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#67. To: AGAviator (#58)
What a lying shapeshifting maroon.
#68. To: AGAviator (#63)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#69. To: FormerLurker (#68)
According to one report the flight computer was turned off mid flight, had its destination changed, turned back on after course change.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#70. To: abraxas (#67)
(Edited)
What a lying shapeshifting maroon.
Actual Quote
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#71. To: AGAviator (#63)
Another serious and deliberate error.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#72. To: AGAviator (#69)
quote]It was turned off momentarily, the course was corrected as it was a bit off, and then turned back on[/quote]
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#73. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, ALL (#65)
Not according to the people who actually spent thousands of man-hours researching the attacks. It is only unproven to you because you wish to ignore those conclusions without having any conclusions to replace them.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#74. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#71)
(Edited)
Ok, so I guess I was looking up some older info in terms of using two VORTAC stations to triangulate current position.
You still need to plot your course using your current position as determined by the VORTAC and a navigational map, taking your current air speed into account in order to determine where you'll be in several minutes (waypoint).
Hanjours instructors said he had very poor navigational skills, so I doubt he could have done all that if he needed to, but he obviously didn't need to since the plane was flown on autopilot, thus utilizing the flight management computer.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#75. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, ALL (#65)
Bernard also confirms the biggest reason Hanjour was declined was Hanjour's failure to land the test plane by himself, which I repeatedly have said
In August 2001, less than one month before 9/11, Hanjour took flight lessons at Freeway Airport in Bowie, Maryland.24 As the New York Times observed, Hanjour "still seemed to lack proficiency at flying". When he showed up "asking to rent a single-engine plane", he attempted three flights with two different instructors, and yet "was unable to prove that he had the necessary skills" to be allowed to rent the plane. "He seemed rusty at everything," said Marcel Bernard, the chief flight instructor at the school.26 The Washington Post similarly reported that to "the flight instructors at Freeway Airport in Bowie", Hanjour "was just a bad pilot." And "after supervising Hanjour on a series of oblong circles above the airport and Chesapeake Bay, the instructors refused to pass him because his skills were so poor, Bernard said. ‘I feel darn lucky it went the way it did,’ Bernard said, crediting his instructors for their good judgment and high standards."50 The London Telegraph also reported that Hanjour claimed to have 600 hours of flight time, "but performed so poorly on test flights that instructors would not let him fly alone."51 Newsday reported that when flight instructors Sheri Baxter and Ben Conner took Hanjour on three check rides, "they found he had trouble controlling and landing the single-engine Cessna 172."52 The Los Angeles Times reported, "‘We have a level of standards that we hold all our pilots to, and he couldn’t meet it," said the manager of the flight school. Hanjour could not handle basic air maneuvers, the manager said."19
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#76. To: AGAviator (#74)
If you're interested in the arrival time. If you want to get there ASAP before any possible interception you'd just concentrate on heading in the right direction and getting ready for the crash.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#77. To: AGAviator (#74)
That's why I've been consistently saying it's harder to fly a small craft without the equipment than the larger planes which have it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#78. To: AGAviator (#74)
This is also why the Chief Instructor who wouldn't rent the 172 to Hanjour, said his lack of small plane skills while having a commercial certificate wasn't that unusual.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#79. To: AGAviator (#74)
Some large aircraft have flown untended for several hours and without pilot oversight. The pilots were tired and let the autopilots do the work.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#80. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#77)
Detail the steps required to change the course on a Boeing 757 flight management computer while autopilot is engaged.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#81. To: FormerLurker (#76)
You're neglecting the part where you need to know what IS the heading you need to fly. You can't just pick a number from 0 to 359 and fly that direction.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#82. To: AGAviator (#81)
That's where the Course Deviation Indicator comes in.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#83. To: AGAviator (#80)
(Edited)
Knock yourself out.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#84. To: AGAviator (#70)
as usual you cherry pick and ignore any words in a quote that will make you look like the SOS you are.
#85. To: Original_Intent (#26)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#86. To: IRTorqued, buckeroo, all (#85)
come on! bucky only needs to know the official fairy tale talking points.
#87. To: abraxas, buckeroo (#84)
How is that search for a "more productive" site coming along? : )
Why should anyone care about the basic issues of governance? You are too worried about cockamamie BS... of and about your posts to deliver a straightforward answer.
So explain to us what YOU are doing to show you care buck
buckeroo posted on 2010-07-28 17:43:16 ET Why should anyone care about the basic issues of governance? You are too worried about cockamamie BS... of and about your posts to deliver a straightforward answer.
So explain to us what YOU are doing to show you care buck
Actually I think this is a correct observation.
If we think there are people who are stuck in side issues, we need to start tuning them out and proceed to places where discussion will have more productive results
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#88. To: abraxas (#41)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#89. To: AGAviator, abraxas, RickyJ, IRTorqued, Original_Intent, James Deffenbach, christine, ALL (#87)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#90. To: AGAviator (#87)
proceed to places where discussion will have more productive results
#91. To: Original_Intent (#54)
eceive one, and HE WAS an incompetent pilot. De
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#92. To: IRTorqued (#88)
#93. To: AGAviator (#58)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#94. To: IRTorqued (#91)
eceive one, and HE WAS an incompetent pilot. De
#95. To: abraxas, buckeroo (#90)
Proceed to places..........as in MOVE ON, MOVE ALONG, PROGRESS, FORGE AHEAD, GO.
What's up with throwing in all the FL posts in the mix?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#96. To: AGAviator, abraxas (#95)
What's up with throwing in all the FL posts in the mix?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#97. To: AGAviator (#95)
(Edited)
So you in your lambrain believe
#98. To: abraxas, AGAviator, ALL (#97)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#99. To: Original_Intent (#61)
(Edited)
Your distinction is one without a difference. It is gobbledygook. It is not proven even that Hanjour was behind the stick and that is at best an unproven hypothesis. And the maneuvers that plane went through are well beyond any skill evidenced by Hanjour at any time on a type of aircraft which he was incompetent to fly, had never before flown, never trained on and in fact at no time had he ever flown ANY KIND of jet aircraft
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#100. To: abraxas, buckeroo, turtle (#97)
(Edited)
I'm just encouraging your thoughts about moving along
Nobody is talking about my influence. Nobody is discussing any "death grip" either. My you are delusional.
Do you hear voices and have imaginary friends too?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#101. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#98)
Seems like I fascinate AGAviator, he cuts and pastes my posts as if they were epic.
Screen Name Search:
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#102. To: abraxas (#29)
Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out!!
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#103. To: AGAviator, buckeroo, turtle (#100)
Your hot flashes of me moving to another site because of the delusions of 10 people on this site are the delusions.
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