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Editorial
See other Editorial Articles

Title: Jim Rickards Compares The Collapse Of The Roman Empire To The US, Concludes That We Are Far Worse Off
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ji ... -us-concludes-we-are-far-worse
Published: Jul 28, 2010
Author: by Tyler Durden
Post Date: 2010-07-29 06:53:45 by DeaconBenjamin
Keywords: None
Views: 210
Comments: 13

In the latest two-part interview with Jim Rickards by Eric King, the former LTCM General Counsel goes on a lengthy compare and contrast between the Roman Empire (and especially the critical part where it collapses) and the U.S. in it current form. And while we say contrast, there are few actual contrasts to observe: alas, the similarities are just far too many, starting with the debasement of the currencies, whereby Rome's silver dinarius started out pure and eventually barely had a 5% content, and the ever increasing taxation of the population, and especially the most productive segment - the farmers, by the emperors, to the point where the downfall of empire was actually greeted by the bulk of the people as the barbarians were welcomed at the gate with open arms. The one key difference highlighted by Rickards: that Rome was not as indebted to the gills as is the US. Accordingly, the US is in fact in a far worse shape than Rome, as the ever increasing cost of funding the debt can only come from further currency debasement, which in turn merely stimulates greater taxation, and more printing of debt, accelerating the downward loop of social disintegration. Furthermore, Rickards points out that unlike the Romans, we are way beyond the point of diminishing marginal utility, and the amount of money that must be printed, borrowed, taxed and spent for marginal improvements in the way of life, from a sociological standpoint, is exponentially greater than those during Roman times. As such, once the collapse begins it will feed on itself until America is no more. Rickards believes that this particular moment may not be too far off...

In this context, Rickards presumes, it is not at all surprising that both individual Americans and domestic corporations have set off on a massive deleveraging and cash conservation wave: the subliminal sense that something very bad is coming, is becoming more palpable with each passing day. The bottom line is that the Fed, just as our founding fathers had warned, could very well end up being the catalyst to the downfall of American society as it cannibalizes all productive output and transfers the wealth to the oligarchy, while paying for this transfer in the form of unrepayable indebtedness. Ostensibly, had the army of Ancient Rome agreed to be paid in paper instead of (even diluted) precious metals, thus creating the first central bank in history, the collapse of that particular overstretched empire would have been far quicker. On the other hand, it would have prevented the disaster of Central banking in its current form, as civilization would have learned about its evils far sooner. Alas, that did not happened, and it now befalls upon the current generation to realize just how much of a destructive influence central banking truly is. If Jim Rickards is correct, however, the realization will be America's last, just before US society disintegrates.

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#1. To: DeaconBenjamin (#0) (Edited)

I see articles like this all the time. But for some reason, they ignore the ramifications of a disintegration. MAybe it's just too uncomfortable for them to think about.

They all say the same things. They talk about banks, metals, stock markets, GDP, debt, all that crap. They ignore what happens the day after, when most dont have a clue on how to get safe drinking water that didn't come from a tap or a bottle, or where and how to get food outside of a grocery store.

We need a disintegration, because integration destroyed this country years ago. A disintegration is the first step in rebuilding what was already destroyed.

.


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Live free or die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-07-29   7:52:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: PSUSA (#1)

But for some reason, they ignore the ramifications of a disintegration.

Actually, one of the points of the article is de-centralization of power as a solution to the problems faced.

In fact, the survival of the Byzantine empire for another thousand years after the fall of Rome is cited as an example of successful decentralization.

You might want to go to the jump site and hear the interview.

he who wants bread is the servant of the man that will feed him, if a man thus feeds a whole people, they are under his control.

DeaconBenjamin  posted on  2010-07-29   8:14:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: DeaconBenjamin (#2)

In fact, the survival of the Byzantine empire for another thousand years after the fall of Rome is cited as an example of successful decentralization.

Is that a valid example? People are not nearly as self-sufficient now, like they were back then. Our "civilization" hands things to people on silver platters, and woe when those silver platters are taken away...

Heck, I include myself in that. I dont have a garden or go around digging up worms and weeds to eat because I'm hungry. But I will do just that, when most won't. They won't even think of doing that to survive until rebuilding takes place.

If he cites the Byzantine empire as an example, imo he is sadly deluded. Different people, different time.

Maybe the old USSR would have been a better example to use. But even then, they were already used to doing without, so they made it through pretty much intact.

.


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Live free or die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-07-29   8:35:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: PSUSA (#3)

Is that a valid example? People are not nearly as self-sufficient now, like they were back then.

That comes down to what part of the nation you are talking about.

Major city people will likely not survive the collapse, while rural area people will.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-07-29   9:19:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: PSUSA (#3)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-07-29   9:28:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: PaulCJ (#4)

Major city people will likely not survive the collapse, while rural area people will.

They might. If they can defend what they have when the city dwellers come a'callin.

The good thing is that most cities can be bottled up rather easily. YOu can afford to be picky about who passes through and who doesnt.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Live free or die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-07-29   9:31:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: PSUSA (#6)

They might. If they can defend what they have when the city dwellers come a'callin.

Rural area populations tend to be more heavily armed.

And look at New Orleans after Katrina, that rural town across the bridge do not let those from New Orleans citizens into their town.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-07-29   9:39:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Eric Stratton (#5)

Far too many would cringe, present company included, at gutting/prepping a slaughtered animal to cook/eat.

I think that when the time comes, you'll do it. You just might need motivation. Hunger is a great motivator ;)

I just posted a piece from Lew Rockwell that as part and parcel of its message in essence states that morality cannot be legislated, one way or another.

True, but the penalties for violating it are legislated.

"The king(s)" will become angry when things do not go their way.

That works to our advantage, imo. When you get angry, you already lost the fight. People do stupid things when they're angry.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Live free or die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-07-29   9:40:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: PSUSA (#3) (Edited)

Actually, and most people don't realize this, Rome had a huge welfare state. If you could put on a toga and say "Cogito ergo sum", you were automatically queued up for any amount of largess to be given to you at taxpayers' expense. Outside of that evil, they also had indoor plumbing, "air conditioning" of sorts, all their food in the big cities came from markets, ice cream was invented and wine/beer were plentiful, normal people took vacations in places like Pompeii (seriously) and most folks weren't quite as independent as you'd think. Farm country, yes. In the cities? Nah, just like us, except without iPods.

"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2010-07-29   11:10:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: SonOfLiberty (#9)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-07-29   11:11:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Eric Stratton (#10) (Edited)

I really don't know. They did have companies/businesses that distributed across the empire though. You could go to Rome and get a bottle of Vesuvinum (a combination word for Mt. Vesuvius and Vinum aka wine, which is the earliest known marketing campaign to date), which was from Pompeii. Rome had huge trade networks established with the known world at the time.

"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2010-07-29   11:13:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: SonOfLiberty (#9)

Thanks!

I learn something new every day.

I always considered cities to be deathtraps. I guess nothing but technology ever changes.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Live free or die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-07-29   11:18:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: PSUSA (#12)

City people are like leaves on a tree, and country people are the tree. The leaves are beautiful in the sunshine of summer, but when the cold of winter hits, they fall off and die, while the more rugged tree survives.

I guess nothing but technology ever changes.

Rome fascinates me. Not the hierarchy crap, but the way they lived their lives. We are so astonishingly close to them it can probably be argued that we are just a continuation of an unbroken line of Roman civilization. Kind of like how Egypt survived as a dynasty for thousands of years, but if you look at some periods in those millenniums, there was no real "Egypt" per se, just a continuation of its languages and culture.

"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2010-07-29   11:27:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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