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Title: Scheduled Server Outage/Upgrade 1:30 AM ET (tonight)
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jul 29, 2010
Author: Neil
Post Date: 2010-07-29 22:38:03 by Pinguinite
Ping List: *4um Admin News*     Subscribe to *4um Admin News*
Keywords: None
Views: 973
Comments: 55

I'm going to take care of this this evening. I'll look to begin at 1:30 AM Eastern time. It should take about 45 mins or so. Something like that.

This will be the first of 3 upgrades I'll do. I'll space them about 2-4 weeks apart, more or less. Subscribe to *4um Admin News*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 45.

#7. To: All, *4um Admin News* (#0)

Guess I'll use the ping list and say the upgrade is done.

Pinguinite  posted on  2010-07-30   2:27:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Pinguinite (#7) (Edited)

Yay and thanks! What'd ya do?

bluegrass  posted on  2010-07-30   3:07:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: bluegrass (#9)

Bumped it up from Ubuntu linux v 8.04 to 8.10.

Next upgrade will take it to 9.04.

Pinguinite  posted on  2010-07-30   3:46:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Pinguinite (#10)

I just installed 10.04 on an HP mini (using it now). Is the server edition that far behind the curve or are you just being conservative?

BTW, I frikkin love Ubuntu. It's going to seep into the market quietly over the next couple/few years. I'm so glad to see Gates and Jobs having some of their market taken away, even if it's only a couple of percentage points.

If you use Ubuntu as a notebook/desktop, check out Guake if you're unfamiliar with it:

http://guake.org

bluegrass  posted on  2010-07-30   3:55:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: bluegrass (#11)

If you use Ubuntu as a notebook/desktop, check out Guake if you're unfamiliar with it:

http://guake.org

Meh. Guake doesn't look that special to me. I can't see anything there that Snow Leopard's terminal doesn't do. Not that SL's terminal is so special either.

But this reminds me of a complaint I have had for years about Linux: they use repulsive and nonsensical names that absolutely repel those who might switch to Linux. Guake sounds like the lizard people from Planet X. Or a gay version of Quake.

Linux will never go anywhere until it adopts common descriptive names for its basic utilities. Like "Notepad", "Terminal", etc. Grandma and Cousin Jed are never ever going to run a program with a name like Guake.

The Linux folk are nerds and think these obscure names are wonderful. Well, maybe for nerds. But I'm pretty nerdy and I don't like these names either. They're just flat-out annoying. This is a major reason for the failure of Linux on the desktop, along with the ongoing rivalry and issues surrounding the Gnome versus KDE desktops and libraries (hey, Linux guys, pick ONE!).

TooConservative  posted on  2010-07-30   9:38:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: TooConservative (#14)

As far as the geeky names go, the problem is that Linux with it's vast open source development base, has a dozen different software packages available for any single application need, and simple names like "notepad" just aren't available.

Pinguinite  posted on  2010-07-30   12:13:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Pinguinite (#15) (Edited)

As far as the geeky names go, the problem is that Linux with it's vast open source development base, has a dozen different software packages available for any single application need, and simple names like "notepad" just aren't available.

I think they could adopt a convention of designating a particular app version as the official standard and giving it a decent name. I also think that Linux will never succeed as long as there is a divide between the Gnome and KDE camps.

User interface design really is no longer any kind of rocket science: just pick one and relegate the other to legacy support. It doesn't even matter which one you pick; just pick one.

If you had a system like this for Notepads and Terminals, then a new geeky-named competitor (fork or new project) might over time become more popular, then every few years they could choose to go to the new Notepad program. Let's face it, every system has Notepad programs. Some proliferation of names, often for obscure features, isn't that desirable. And just how extensive or subtle can a Notepad or a Terminal really be? This isn't actually a major divide that moves the hearts of men, causes people to kill each other, determines which computer system a person chooses to use (in the case of Linux, which computer system they choose not to use largely because of this endless confusing proliferation of minor versions of almost identical software).

You need continuity of sorts to succeed. Then you have more books and magazine articles to tutor and promote the various packages, you have users who become knowledgeable about a standard utility and can help others.

As I've said, this is one of the biggest single defects in any plan for Linux to conquer the desktop. If you're satisfied with obscurity (or if you purposely desire it for various reasons) then the current Linux practices are the way to go.

Linux needs to finally become a platform, in the same sense we use those terms towards Windows and Mac OSes.

Linux needs a way to standardize their APIs and utilities but keep the open-source nature of the Linux system.

Linux is weaker as an OS because of the divided effort and duplicated effort of so many teams, especially Gnome vs. KDE. I know some people would fight to the death over the two but that is legacy stuff. Both are more than capable enough and the division in UI development harms Linux far far more than it can ever help it. I'm on Mac instead of Linux largely because I actually like having a standard set of utils that everyone else is using. I also like that OS X, unlike Linux, actually is a UNIX 2003™ certified OS. This is one reason why it was fairly easy to change the Pinguinite install script to produce a working P forum on the Mac. (I should remember to email that script to you just in case anyone else asks for it.)

Of course, the very idea of standardization offends many Linux users. So I expect total marketshare/mindshare of Linux to continue to decline because of this tendency in the Linux community.

To make my own prejudices clear, I think Linux should standardize on Ubuntu with KDE (Kubuntu). But Ubuntu with Gnome would work too.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-07-30   13:00:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: TooConservative, Pinguinet (#17) (Edited)

What I enjoy about Linux is that I don't have to "just pick one". If I want I can install all the window managers and switch between them at will. Windowmaker is elegant and suits my needs most of the time, Gnome sometimes, KDE if I'm feeling like pretending I'm using Windows for that day. It allows me choice, to suit my whims of the moment. It's an OS geared completely towards individualism, there is no "one size fits all package".

As to "platform", lots of companies use Linux. IBM has even offered an entire Linux "platform" suite of servers that were well received.

Meant to type : Penguinite

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2010-07-30   14:08:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: SonOfLiberty (#20)

What I enjoy about Linux is that I don't have to "just pick one". If I want I can install all the window managers and switch between them at will. Windowmaker is elegant and suits my needs most of the time, Gnome sometimes, KDE if I'm feeling like pretending I'm using Windows for that day. It allows me choice, to suit my whims of the moment. It's an OS geared completely towards individualism, there is no "one size fits all package".

Sounds tiresome. Exactly what is so compelling about installing and maintaining all of those anyway? This is like some of the old icon sets and menu utilities we used to have on the Amiga. Just how many icon sets and weird menu/dock utilities does anyone need?

That isn't a strength of the platform, it's refusal to make a sound choice based on ergonomics and engineering. Catering to whimsy has no real future. That's what Twitter and Facebook are for.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-07-30   21:44:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: TooConservative (#29)

Sounds tiresome.

If clicking three or four check-boxes at install is tiresome, might I recommend a more vigorous exercise regime for you to embark on? :)

Exactly what is so compelling about installing and maintaining all of those anyway?

You don't have to "maintain" them, really. What maintenance you do, is normally handled auto-magically now anyway (just like Windows automatic updates feature).

As to what is compelling, well, it allows me to select the window manager based on my whim and mood at the time. Really, it's a very libertarian, individualistic type of notion. Today I might feel like something that has all the useless bells and whistles of Windows, tomorrow I might feel lean mean and ready for some serious computing (non-gaming), the next day I'm just in the mood for...a few widgets. It's up to me, daily, hourly, by the minute even, and I get what I want.

I'm guessing that your conception of Linux is based off of Linux as it existed in 1999?

Catering to whimsy has no real future.

Well then, we might as well flush individual liberty down the toilet as a political philosophy then eh? Individual choice, catering to unique personalities and "one size does not fit all" are, after all, some of the root concepts of free markets and free choice. :)

Many desktop arrangements used in Linux have counterparts/compilations in the "professional" UNIX/POSIX world actually. "Whimsy" does have a future, because we're all individuals. And it's not "whimsy" many times, it's having a toolbox filled with the tools you want for the job at hand, with the option of opening up other toolboxes later if you have more and different jobs to do.

So, for example, for the system administrator, a simple BASH prompt against a traditional bare bones X-Windows interface is all that's desired. The desktop user, on the other hand, is equipped with KDE. The graphics professionals use GNOME (just an example, not saying they would). The power users (programmers) may find Windowmaker more suited to their style. All in one shop, yet the underlying OS is exactly the same (kernel, mods, etc) so there are no cross platform compatibility issues at all.

I have no problem with folks that want cookie cutter choices made for them in regards to OS choices/wrappers/desktops. Many people are quite content to be given something and adapt to it. Some of us, IT professions more often than not, tend to like to customize and trim our tools for maximum efficiency. That's why I like Linux (and POSIX/UNIX in general).

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2010-08-09   9:23:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 45.

#46. To: SonOfLiberty (#45)

If clicking three or four check-boxes at install is tiresome, might I recommend a more vigorous exercise regime for you to embark on? :)

I'm a Mac guy. So it only has to be brushed aluminum (or shiny white) to make me happy.

You don't have to "maintain" them, really. What maintenance you do, is normally handled auto-magically now anyway (just like Windows automatic updates feature).

I don't even trust the Mac to do it any more. So I suppose I make a chore of updates. I still run WinXP under VMware too but I don't trust it unsupervised to connect to this interweb thing.

I'm guessing that your conception of Linux is based off of Linux as it existed in 1999?

Linux folk like to make this accusation toward critics. It's a variety of the old but-everything-is-different-now. It's not really an argument more a way of trying to invalidate criticism.

What I said about Linux is as true today as it was then.

So, for example, for the system administrator, a simple BASH prompt against a traditional bare bones X-Windows interface is all that's desired.

The desktop user, on the other hand, is equipped with KDE.

Not universally. There's the problem.

The graphics professionals use GNOME (just an example, not saying they would).

The "graphics professional" uses Photoshop or Maya and Linux is important only for creating cheap render farms. Which is a terrific niche for Linux BTW.

The power users (programmers) may find Windowmaker more suited to their style. All in one shop, yet the underlying OS is exactly the same (kernel, mods, etc) so there are no cross platform compatibility issues at all.

Still too many package dependencies. Too much division and duplication of effort in GUI development which does not create a stronger end user experience and confuses newbs. At some point, you need to settle on a single platform because your developer resources are and will remain finite. The drawing of GUI gadgets is not rocket science and hasn't been for thirty years.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-08-09 10:41:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 45.

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