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Title: 9/11 for Dummies
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Published: Aug 1, 2010
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Post Date: 2010-08-01 09:57:39 by Eric Stratton
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What I would suggest is to start a thread on the subject of 911 coincidences and explain in the header essay what you are looking for i.e., "coincidences" that are not arcane and that can be communicated simply to raw public.
Poster Comment: Per OI's suggestion, that is what I've undertaken. I have come to the conclusion that the final nails into the coffin of our Republic are being conducted with neocons holding the hammer, willfully and gleefully as our Republik more than slowly becomes a totalitarian state on steroids. I have also come to the unfortunate conclusion that it is primarily for lack of serious personal investigation, willful negligence and ignorance in essence, as the reasons why they believe the official Fairy Tale. They've never seriously looked into the matter, only superficially, and they've been driven by how their political "heroes" in the GOP have responded to the "twoofers;" Lameblow, Hammity, Palin, Junior, Cheney, etc., etc. Granted, now Hussein is in office and they are blaming his cadre of people for merely continuing on in the BuchCo. legacy, but nevertheless, it is driven primarily by support for "national security," which we all here realize is really "federal government and NWO elite security," and which is all spun off of this notion that there are terrorists lurking around every street corner waiting to blow us all up when if that were even remotely true it'd have been done a thousand times already since 9/11. Instead, it's only happened a statistically insignificant number of times. It's clear that they're never going to spend as much time researching this as we all do here. After all, they have socials and far more important things to attend to and investments to take care of so that they can all retire when they're 50-years old and play golf five days a week until they die and therefore cannot be inconvenienced to actually consider why they may be lucky to have a set of clubs in five years and access to a course. So what I thought I would do is attempt to piece together a list of between 20 and 50 items that can be read within say a half-hour and that when considered individually really give cause for people to wonder about it all. 9/11 that is. But that when taken collectively, make them only ask "how can that all be if the Fairy Tale is actually true?" Obviously no one can force another to look, but what can be done is to make the top 20-50 points very easy to access and point out and ingest within a short period of time. This should be a "Reader's Digest" Short-list version if you will. Do I think that this is going to be the difference? No. I think that our Republic is toast in a major way regardless with much pain and suffering on the immediate horizon. But I also think that there's a very small window, and ever diminishing one, wherein which if all goes perfectly, perhaps there is at least a degree of hope, and God willing. If anyone has seen exactly this, please post the link. I have not. I have seen numerous lists that have many items, often "arcane" ones as OI states above. I know that there are also thousands of data points as well, hence the effort. If these points have blatant video evidence or irrefutable eye witness testimony from indisputable sources it would be good. Otherwise, simple logical "impossibilities" are also good. They should include the points that are the "biggest bang for the buck." I also know that many "financial coincidences" also fit the bill. I thought we could brainstorm this together. I will keep a "top-50" list, and anyone else can feel free to do the same obviously. But I thought a concentrated thread wherein only such data points are included and discussion related to them. It would be good to limit the thread to only that to avoid unnecessary clutter in a thread that will probably end up being quite large. Thoughts? Already been done? (Where?)
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#1. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
I've been working on such an endeavor for my family - trying to find items that don't sound 'nutter' - things they can see with their own eyes - like the entire day(911) being artisticly woven into cartoon like snapshots on the back of our money which was newly created n released to the public a few years before the event - they ask "How can this be?" I ask, "Why was it done and by whom?" Some folks think it is arrogance on their part or an element of some kinda ritual/magik - which is possible - I wondered briefly though .... is it a gift to the truthers? something to help us show the sheep that not all is as it seems? you'll find what I refer to in the last 2 minutes of this video, skim past the beginning for your first view please so the other stuff won't distract you:
not to throw a wet blanket on this effort, but here's the rub. depending on one's already held opinion, he/she will argue what is irrefutable and indisputable to the point of absurdity.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
1) Have people Google nanothermite WTC. 2) Ask them what force other than top secret military grade explosives could have pulverized 424,000 cubic yards of concrete, converted it to the consistency of talcum and expelled up to 4,000 feet from the WTC? How could the 19 Arabs have even boarded the planes without tickets? Ticket agents have never allowed passengers to board without paying or at least using frequent flier miles and getting a boarding pass. Not one Arab is on CNN's list of passengers and crew.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
here's 2 more I think can reach the more simple minded: Man in the street 'plants' official story for them. Who is this man? 9-11 official story started minutes after. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0wHeekgPqk Another one their eyes canna deny - BBC reports WTC 7 collapse 23 min BEFORE IT HAPPENED !!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky90eEIzStw
Oh no.... not another TWOOFER_FAERIE™ thread!
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
This is part 6 of a 19 part YouTube series on 9/11 Coincidences. I haven't watched the entire series yet but you might be able to use it as a reference for your project. Part 6 mentions Able Warrior and Able Danger as a drill gone live at 7:44: 9/11 Coincidences (6/19) The Military runs drills often. I don't believe the Military implemented a drill on 9/11 that would have put real flights and passengers in danger from not being able to tell the difference. I suspect that "jets scrambled soft"/slow for intercept may have been a signal that there were no real hijackings in process. This video of a first responder at the Pentagon supports the evidence of no plane impact there: Lt. Robert Medairos didn't see any pieces, ABC, 15:25, 9/13 Edit to add: On a sidenote, at about 1:44 in the Lt. Medairos video above, something falls to the ground from the white-shirted man on the left running towards the helicopter.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
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------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
1:45 "...My first thought was, 'I couldn't believe what happened' and they said it was a plane and I didn't see any pieces of any plane and I couldn't believe that a plane hit the building...."
In chewing it over one way to do it is to first "hat" the person you're talking to and get them thinking and not being robotic in regurgitating and stating what they have been "told" to think in the mainstream media. There are a couple of different approaches that you can take but the key point is to gently get them thinking for themselves. If you know that they already distrust the media then start with that as entry point. Maybe with saying something like: "well we both know that the media is not always trustworthy - agreed?" This has to be done in a non-confrontational manner because you don't want to turn their defense of self on. Do not browbeat them - be willing before you start to take it slowly and gently. If they are trusting of the media then the prep might be to simply ask if they think the media is correct 100% of the time? Following that you might ask: "If the media is given false information that they think is true and then report that at face value is it still false? (At this point you are not trying to prove the entire media false just to get your subject to realize they are not always right.) If you have an example to throw in at that point all the better. Something preferably non-threatening - something that you are reasonably sure they already know, but just haven't looked at it from the point of view of the media being wrong. It could be celebrity news or something about a natural disaster etc., ... Here you are just trying to get into communication and get them thinking. Communication consists of Affinity, Reality, and Communication. There has to be some affinity between you and them for them to be receptive, and what you give them has to be "real" to them (if you violate their reality you'll lose them) and then Communication takes place. The three are interdependent. When you raise one it raises the others and vice versa. Then you need to hat them on the following basic principle of logic: The patter might go something like this: You: Ever study formal logic? Them: They'll give you either essentially a "yes" or a "no". (In either event you'll still take the next step. How you word it depends on their answer.) If yes then it might go something like this: "Then you may already be familiar with this, but in investigating something and sifting through all the information it is a basic principle that two things that are exclusive of each other can't both be true. Formally it goes that "If two datums are mutually exclusive the first thing you can know is that one, or both, are false". If they say "no" then it might go: Here's an interesting rule of logic you might find handy as a "tool": "If two datums are mutually exclusive the first thing you can know is that one, or both, are false". {In both cases you need to make sure they understand what the word "exclusive" means (excluding or not allowing other things) - given the level of literacy at present time. Ask them to explain it to you, and if it is apparent they don't have a definition handy. Written down on a card would be nice.} Then you want to get them thinking with this. A simple non-threatening example would be good here. Something along the lines of: "Think of it this way - if one person says it is day and another says it is night it has to be one or the other but it can't be both. Of course if someone says "Johnny's car is blue and someone else says it is green normally it couldn't be both but it could be neither - it might be blue-green and so two people see it differently so neither blue nor green is completely correct. See if you can get them to give their own example: Can you think of something like that from your own experience? The next step is to get them to admit the government lies. "Do you think the government always tells the truth?" Most people will say no, if they say yes then you are going to have to take this in baby steps and give them some examples that are clear cut of instances where the government has lied. For someone already a bit aware the "Gulf of Tonkin" might be handy but I am sure most of use here can think of some. It has to be real to you to communicate that reality to them and it needs to be pretty clear cut. I wouldn't start talking about fractional reserve banking just yet. From this point there is no set patter, but this is where the 911 for dummies list comes in handy. It has to be some of the stuff that is pretty straight forward and easily verifiable. One start might be: "Did you know that both the Chairman and Vice-Chairman of the 911 Commission have both publicly stated that their report is inaccurate and that government witnesses lied?" The path you take is going to vary from person to person. The key is to not get too technical right off the bat otherwise you'll lose them. You have to first present to them a series of simple contradictions that are easy to see and are real to them. Then you have to have the information handy to support what you are saying (including credible sources) - e.g., the time, place, form, and event. Again using the Chairman of the 911 Commission the time, place, form (written or spoken), and what exactly was said. Another might be to point out, and have the reference handy, that John Ashcroft stopped flying on commercial airlines over a month before 911 citing unspecified security risks. Another secondary point might be to point out that the Patriot Act is ten thousand pages long and yet it was rolled out the week after 911. Do you think it is possible that an intricate ten thousand page bill was written in a week? That it was rushed through so fast that Congress did not even have printed copies to read before they were forced to vote on it? By and large there is no set path here but you must tread lightly and not make the person wrong otherwise they'll clam up and close the shutters. Invite them to think with the information DO NOT get angry or frustrated with them as very often there is some key datum that they believe to be true which is actually false. Part of the opening of their mind is to find out what that consideration is false, gently showing it to be false - preferably with a reference they'll trust, and replacing it with true information. This might involve a little detective work on your part to figure out what it is. You can confirm this by asking a question: "Do you believe "x" to be true (which you know and can prove false)? This can be easy or laborious depending upon who you are working with, how bright they are to begin with, and the amount of false information they believe to be true. The point is to keep them in communication and slowly educate them by showing them the contradictions between the "Official Cover Story™" and the easily observable and verifiable facts. To be successful you have to do a little bit of homework - and don't get defensive yourself when they start spouting propaganda nonsense.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
OI's "how to talk to people dumber than me 101" lol
I'd like to suggest a different title for this list. The phrase "for Dummies" might be humorous if the topic is like home repairs or basic computer instruction but it is a put-off on such a critical issue that might make someone overly defensive in order to try and prove that identifier of them false and so could have the unintended consequence of making them even more unreceptive to reviewing the information. One start might be: "Did you know that both the Chairman and Vice-Chairman of the 911 Commission have both publicly stated that their report is inaccurate and that government witnesses lied?" The path you take is going to vary from person to person. The key is to not get too technical right off the bat otherwise you'll lose them. You have to first present to them a series of simple contradictions that are easy to see and are real to them. Then you have to have the information handy to support what you are saying (including credible sources) - e.g., the time, place, form, and event. Again using the Chairman of the 911 Commission the time, place, form (written or spoken), and what exactly was said. 9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey finally confesses 9-11 Commission could not do it's job - Part 3 of 3 [Calls 9/11 a 30 Year Old Conspiracy, starting @ 5:44]
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Arguing with them is like playing "Whack A Mole." Hit them on one point in one place, they pop up out of another hole in another place. Still want to know why ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flagged you to that post re: the list title but the video wasn't working correctly and forgot to reflag you on the edit screen.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Well Curly - as per your usual you are applying "Disinformation For Dummies". Too bad every one here has a higher I.Q. than you. Other than that I will not dignify your attempt to derail the thread by recreating the same old false argument which has been refuted now on multiple occasions. I would ask you to have the manners and grace to delete the post or for christine to remove it as inappropriate to the thread, and its intent. If you want to start a "911 Official Spin for Dummies" thread please feel free. However I suspect you know what it would attract - either genuine dummies or refutations which you are incapable of countering.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
OI's "how to talk to people dumber than me 101" lol No names of course. ;-)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Then you and your windbaggy ***High IQ*** shouldn't have any problem answering my heretofore unanswered 3 questions, just for starters. Still want to know why After we get done with that, we will review your flagrant hyprocrisy citing the "25 Rules of Disinformation" when you systematically violate every single one yourself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The transponder simply gives off the plane's identification, speed, and altitude. The radar still sees the aircraft as a blip however. Thing is, the aircraft disappeared off radar near the Ohio border. That shouldn't be possible, since the aircraft should still be visible even without the transponder.. THEN 20 minutes later an aircraft appeared on radar south of Washington DC, with no transponder, but whatever it was they could see on radar is what apparently struck the Pentagon. So it may well NOT have been Flight 77...
So what made the aircraft disappear from radar near Ohio? What direct evidence is there that Hani Hanjour piloted Flight 77?
Lots of money went into ATC upgrades after 9/11. He's probably playing dumb like he doesn't know anything about radar "dead zones" and other ATC problems at that time or like that data wasn't from the alleged FDR.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
http://whitts.alioth.net/Pageg7%20IFR%20Radio.htm: Be aware that in some areas and below certain altitudes communications and navigation ability can be lost. Oakland Flight Watch has a dead zone in the vicinity of Modesto.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
A much fainter blip, hard to distinguish between clutter and the clear strong signals of aircraft with transponders working. And no ID or altitude.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You mean like saying there were no moon landings, and calling Buzz Aldrin a "coward, liar, and a thief?"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reference this or withdraw it.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Here is a chronology of September 11, 2001 based on significant events. Where's the conspiracy? 9:03 a.m. United Airlines Flight 175 crashes into Two World Trade Center (south tower). 9:17 a.m. FAA closes NYC area airports. 9:21 a.m. NYC Port Authority closes all bridges and tunnels in NYC. 9:24 a.m. President Bush calls crashes "an apparent attack on our country". 9:32 a.m. New York Stock Exchange closed. 9:40 a.m. FAA orders all commercial flights grounded. 9:43 a.m. American Airlines Flight 77 crashes into the Pentagon. (Note: other sources cite the crash at 9:37 and 9:45) 9:45 a.m. White House evacuated. 9:59 a.m. Two World Trade Center (south tower) collapses. (note: other souces cite the collapse at 10:03, 10:05, & 10:06) 10:00 a.m. United Airlines Flight 93 crashes in Somerset County, Pennsylvania. (note: the crash happened slightly after 10 am, perhaps as late as 10:10 according to other sources) 10:10 a.m. Portion of the Pentagon collapses. 10:13 a.m. United Nations building evacuates. 10:22 a.m. State and Justice Departments, and World Bank, evacuated in Washington DC. 10:24 a.m. FAA reroutes inbound transatlantic flights to land in Canada. 10:28 a.m. One World Trade Center (north tower) collapses. 10:45 a.m. All federal office buildings in Washington DC evacuated. 10:48 a.m. Police confirm Pennsylvania plane crash. 10:53 a.m. New York's primary elections postponed. 10:54 a.m. Israel evacuates diplomatic missions. 10:57 a.m. NY Gov. Pataki announces closure of all state government offices. 11:02 a.m. Mayor Giuliani urges New Yorkers to stay at home and orders an evacuation of the area south of Canal Street 12:04 p.m. Los Angeles International Airport evacuated. 12:15 p.m. San Francisco International Airport evacuated. 12:15 p.m. US closes some Canada and Mexico border crossings. 1:02 p.m. NY Mayor Giuliani evacuates Manhattan south of Canal Street. 1:04 p.m. President Bush says: "Make no mistake, the United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts." (note: other sources cite this at 12:36) 1:27 p.m. Washington DC declares state of emergency in the city. 2:30 p.m. FAA announces suspension of US commercial air traffic until noon EST Wednesday 9/12/01. 4:00 p.m. CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor reports there are indications that Osama bin Laden is involved in attacks. 4:10 p.m. Seven World Trade Center reported to be on fire. 4:25 p.m. American Stock Exchange, Nasdaq, and New York Stock Exchange announce they will be closed Wednesday, 9/12. 4:45 p.m. City of New York announces that 200 firefighters and 78 police officers are missing.(Note: according to other sources, at 7:45 pm the New York Police department announced that at least 78 police officers were missing and that as many as half (200) of the first firefighters at the scene had been killed.) 5:20 p.m. Seven World Trade Center building collapses. 5:30 p.m. Explosions reported in Kabul, Afghanistan. (note: other sources cite this for 6 pm) 6:40 p.m. Press conference by US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld from the Pentagon. 6:45 p.m. President Bush arrives at the White House. (note: other sources say he arrived at 6:54) 8:30 p.m. President Bush addresses the nation. Search warrants obtained for homes and post office boxes in Florida. "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
~ you can also now use this thread here to demonstrate how easily the dis-info people can fill up an otherwise well-begun thread with endless BS, data irrellevent to your initial aim and argumentative as well ~ you asked for cooincedences, simpler things that don't take much head-scratching to recognize as being odd, or out of place - how's this for simple - in the currently known history of humanity's ability to build big steel high rises like this, only 3 have ever fallen down due to fire, all 3 were on the same day, all 3 were leased/insured by the same man let your friend do an internet search of other steel building fires, high in the air, infernos that lasted 24 hours or more leaving a smoking skeleton 'standing' once the fire was out
Excerpts from G Force calculations prove official Pentagon attack flight path impossible, page 1 This is the required descent if the officially reported altitude is used: But it is STILL impossible even if we hypothetically lower the plane to the top of the highest obstacle on the official flight path! There is no way a 757 would be able to withstand more than 5 or 6 G's. But the highest G rate recorded in the NTSB data for this stretch is only 1.75 G's for a mere 1/8th of a second! This 13 minute excerpt from Pilots for 9/11 Truth's latest release, 9/11: ATTACK ON THE PENTAGON, is really enough in itself to prove a military deception in Arlington that day. So to all the pseudo-skeptics who have repeated the mantra "got math?" since the initial article came out with the error.....the answer is: Sure do! And it proves your official 9/11 fantasy false. [See the 13 min. clip of the Pilots for 9/11 Truth video at the linked abovetopsecret.com site or copy this path to browser: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5732289044586758033&hl=en A # sign gets added at the end of that path automatically but the path copied to a browser without it works.]
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
And no ID or altitude. So apparently after losing the transponder info while the aircraft was nearing Ohio, it passed through an area which had no primary radar coverage. Either that is a crock, or it was an area which was known to the FAA not to have radar coverage. Would 19 "ragheads" who attacked us because "they hated our freedoms" have known that? From the 9/11 Commission Report; 141. FAA audio file, Herndon Command Center, National Operations Manager position, line 4525;FAA audio file,Herndon Command Center, National Traffic Management Officer east position, line 4530; FAA memo,“Full Transcription; Air Traffic Control System Command Center,National Traffic Management Officer, East Position; September 11, 2001,” Oct. 21, 2003, p. 13. 142. Primary radar contact for Flight 77 was lost because the “preferred” radar in this geographic area had no primary radar system, the “supplemental” radar had poor primary coverage, and the FAA ATC software did not allow the display of primary radar data from the “tertiary” and “quadrary” radars. As far as what the air traffic controllers had to say, did you know that the tape of their original observations was destroyed? At least six air traffic controllers who dealt with two of the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, made a tape recording that day describing the events, but the tape was destroyed by a supervisor without anyone making a transcript or even listening to it, the Transportation Department said today. you asked for cooincedences, simpler things that don't take much head-scratching to recognize as being odd, or out of place - how's this for simple - in the currently known history of humanity's ability to build big steel high rises like this, only 3 have ever fallen down due to fire, all 3 were on the same day, all 3 were leased/insured by the same man let your friend do an internet search of other steel building fires, high in the air, infernos that lasted 24 hours or more leaving a smoking skeleton 'standing' once the fire was out And not to forget of those 3 buildings that fell only 2 were hit by airplanes. Further WTC 7 had been hardened, reinforced and made stronger, by the city of NY because they were placing their emergency command center there. As well the building hit first, with the most direct damage to the core, fell AFTER the South Tower which was hit second and based on the exit angle of the nose of the plane (where the fireball occurred) it suffered less damge, and yet it collapsed first.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Reference this or withdraw it. I'll validate my quote against your baseless challenges, when you agree to withdraw from posting on the forum, for making degoratory and accusatory remarks about statements I make, when I can prove my statements accurate. You do not get unlimited challenges to accuse other people of inaccurate or lying remarks, without incurring some penalty on yourself.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ROTFL As though you have ever studied physics. I noticed that you were ABSENT with all your "differential equations" from the collapse theory thread that Christine locked. Have you no idea what happens when a large mass falls? You act as though that same mass exerts no pressure upon other masses around it.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~
#2. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
If these points have blatant video evidence or irrefutable eye witness testimony from indisputable sources it would be good.
#3. To: christine (#2)
#4. To: Amandil, Eric Stratton (#1)
#5. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~
#6. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
"how can that all be if the Fairy Tale is actually true?"
#7. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
(Edited)
#8. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
(Edited)
#9. To: GreyLmist, all, *9-11* (#7)
.
#10. To: Eric Stratton, GreyLmist, FormerLurker, wudidiz, abraxas, christine, HOUNDDAWG, Kamala, RickyJ, IRTorqued, Critter, CadetD, bluegrass, Jethro Tull, Deacon Benjamin, all (#0)
If two datums are mutually exclusive the first thing you can know is that one, or both are false.
#11. To: Original_Intent (#10)
The key is to not get too technical right off the bat otherwise you'll lose them. You have to first present to them a series of simple contradictions that are easy to see and...
#12. To: Original_Intent (#10)
(Edited)
this is where the 911 for dummies list comes in handy.
It has to be some of the stuff that is pretty straight forward and easily verifiable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtJWBcWAeAw#t=6m45
#13. To: buckeroo (#6)
(Edited)
Oh no.... not another TWOOFER_FAERIE™ thread!
(1) A 1/2 G turn is supposed to be evidence of "fighter pilot skills" when student pilots must do 2G turns to get licensed and fighter pilots regularly pull 8+ G's,
Nyuk, nyuk.
(2) Descending at 46.667 feet per second or 31.818 miles per hour is supposed to be evidence of "fighter pilot skills," when you descend faster than that on a roller coaster,
(3) How an aircraft controller trying to track a plane with its transponder off, and which completely disappears from the radar screen half way through its descending turn, is able to accurately describe the completed turn as a "precision turn" when the ATC doesn't even see the last half of the turn
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#14. To: Eric Stratton (#12)
#15. To: AGAviator, christine (#13)
#16. To: wudidiz (#11)
The key is to not get too technical right off the bat otherwise you'll lose them. You have to first present to them a series of simple contradictions that are easy to see and...
#17. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle (#15)
(Edited)
Well Curly - as per your usual you are applying "Disinformation For Dummies". Too bad every one here has a higher I.Q. than you.
(1) A 1/2 G turn is supposed to be evidence of "fighter pilot skills" when student pilots must do 2G turns to get licensed and fighter pilots regularly pull 8+ G's,
Nyuk, nyuk.
(2) Descending at 46.667 feet per second or 31.818 miles per hour is supposed to be evidence of "fighter pilot skills," when you descend faster than that on a roller coaster,
(3) How an aircraft controller trying to track a plane with its transponder off, and which completely disappears from the radar screen half way through its descending turn, is able to accurately describe the completed turn as a "precision turn" when the ATC doesn't even see the last half of the turn
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#18. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, turtle, ALL (#17)
How an aircraft controller trying to track a plane with its transponder off, and which completely disappears from the radar screen half way through its descending turn, is able to accurately describe the completed turn as a "precision turn" when the ATC doesn't even see the last half of the turn
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#19. To: AGAviator, ALL (#17)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#20. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#18)
Thing is, the aircraft disappeared off radar near the Ohio border. That shouldn't be possible, since the aircraft should still be visible even without the transponder..
#21. To: All (#20)
#22. To: Amandil (#1)
#23. To: FormerLurker (#18)
The transponder simply gives off the plane's identification, speed, and altitude. The radar still sees the aircraft as a blip however.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#24. To: christine (#2)
Depending on one's already held opinion, he/she will argue what is irrefutable and indisputable to the point of absurdity.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#25. To: AGAviator (#17)
(3) How an aircraft controller trying to track a plane with its transponder off, and which completely disappears from the radar screen half way through its descending turn, is able to accurately describe the completed turn as a "precision turn" when the ATC doesn't even see the last half of the turn
#26. To: AGAviator (#13)
Arguing with them is like playing "Whack A Mole."
8:48 a.m. First news reports that American Airlines Flight 11 has crashed into One World Trade Center (north tower).
#27. To: Original_Intent (#10)
#28. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~
#29. To: AGAviator (#17)
(Edited)
Still want to know why
(1) A 1/2 G turn is supposed to be evidence of "fighter pilot skills" when student pilots must do 2G turns to get licensed and fighter pilots regularly pull 8+ G's,
(2) Descending at 46.667 feet per second or 31.818 miles per hour is supposed to be evidence of "fighter pilot skills," when you descend faster than that on a roller coaster,
#30. To: Original_Intent, All (#10)
#31. To: GreyLmist (#12)
#32. To: Original_Intent (#15)
#33. To: Amandil (#28)
#34. To: AGAviator, ALL (#23)
(Edited)
A much fainter blip, hard to distinguish between clutter and the clear strong signals of aircraft with transponders working.
140. John Thomas interview (Sept. 24, 2003).According to the FAA-produced timeline, at 9:09 Indianapolis Center “notified Great Lakes Regional Operations Center a possible aircraft accident of AMERICAN 77 due to the simultaneous loss of radio communications and radar identification.”FAA report,“Summary of AirTraffic Hijack Events September 11, 2001,” Sept. 17, 2001.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#35. To: AGAviator, ALL (#23)
(Edited)
The taping began before noon on Sept. 11 at the New York Air Route Traffic Control Center, in Ronkonkoma, on Long Island, but it was later destroyed by an F.A.A. quality-assurance manager, who crushed the cassette in his hand, cut the tape into little pieces and dropped them in different trash cans around the building, according to a report made public today by the inspector general of the Transportation Department. [New York Times 5/6/04]
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#36. To: Amandil, Eric Stratton (#28)
~ you can also now use this thread here to demonstrate how easily the dis-info people can fill up an otherwise well-begun thread with endless BS, data irrellevent to your initial aim and argumentative as well ~
#37. To: Original_Intent, All (#10)
#38. To: Original_Intent (#36)
#39. To: GreyLmist, buckeroo (#25)
(Edited)
(3) How an aircraft controller trying to track a plane with its transponder off, and which completely disappears from the radar screen half way through its descending turn, is able to accurately describe the completed turn as a "precision turn" when the ATC doesn't even see the last half of the turn
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#40. To: Original_Intent (#36)
And not to forget of those 3 buildings that fell only 2 were hit by airplanes.
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