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Title: 9/11 for Dummies
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Published: Aug 1, 2010
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Post Date: 2010-08-01 09:57:39 by Eric Stratton
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What I would suggest is to start a thread on the subject of 911 coincidences and explain in the header essay what you are looking for i.e., "coincidences" that are not arcane and that can be communicated simply to raw public.
Poster Comment: Per OI's suggestion, that is what I've undertaken. I have come to the conclusion that the final nails into the coffin of our Republic are being conducted with neocons holding the hammer, willfully and gleefully as our Republik more than slowly becomes a totalitarian state on steroids. I have also come to the unfortunate conclusion that it is primarily for lack of serious personal investigation, willful negligence and ignorance in essence, as the reasons why they believe the official Fairy Tale. They've never seriously looked into the matter, only superficially, and they've been driven by how their political "heroes" in the GOP have responded to the "twoofers;" Lameblow, Hammity, Palin, Junior, Cheney, etc., etc. Granted, now Hussein is in office and they are blaming his cadre of people for merely continuing on in the BuchCo. legacy, but nevertheless, it is driven primarily by support for "national security," which we all here realize is really "federal government and NWO elite security," and which is all spun off of this notion that there are terrorists lurking around every street corner waiting to blow us all up when if that were even remotely true it'd have been done a thousand times already since 9/11. Instead, it's only happened a statistically insignificant number of times. It's clear that they're never going to spend as much time researching this as we all do here. After all, they have socials and far more important things to attend to and investments to take care of so that they can all retire when they're 50-years old and play golf five days a week until they die and therefore cannot be inconvenienced to actually consider why they may be lucky to have a set of clubs in five years and access to a course. So what I thought I would do is attempt to piece together a list of between 20 and 50 items that can be read within say a half-hour and that when considered individually really give cause for people to wonder about it all. 9/11 that is. But that when taken collectively, make them only ask "how can that all be if the Fairy Tale is actually true?" Obviously no one can force another to look, but what can be done is to make the top 20-50 points very easy to access and point out and ingest within a short period of time. This should be a "Reader's Digest" Short-list version if you will. Do I think that this is going to be the difference? No. I think that our Republic is toast in a major way regardless with much pain and suffering on the immediate horizon. But I also think that there's a very small window, and ever diminishing one, wherein which if all goes perfectly, perhaps there is at least a degree of hope, and God willing. If anyone has seen exactly this, please post the link. I have not. I have seen numerous lists that have many items, often "arcane" ones as OI states above. I know that there are also thousands of data points as well, hence the effort. If these points have blatant video evidence or irrefutable eye witness testimony from indisputable sources it would be good. Otherwise, simple logical "impossibilities" are also good. They should include the points that are the "biggest bang for the buck." I also know that many "financial coincidences" also fit the bill. I thought we could brainstorm this together. I will keep a "top-50" list, and anyone else can feel free to do the same obviously. But I thought a concentrated thread wherein only such data points are included and discussion related to them. It would be good to limit the thread to only that to avoid unnecessary clutter in a thread that will probably end up being quite large. Thoughts? Already been done? (Where?)
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#1. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
I've been working on such an endeavor for my family - trying to find items that don't sound 'nutter' - things they can see with their own eyes - like the entire day(911) being artisticly woven into cartoon like snapshots on the back of our money which was newly created n released to the public a few years before the event - they ask "How can this be?" I ask, "Why was it done and by whom?" Some folks think it is arrogance on their part or an element of some kinda ritual/magik - which is possible - I wondered briefly though .... is it a gift to the truthers? something to help us show the sheep that not all is as it seems? you'll find what I refer to in the last 2 minutes of this video, skim past the beginning for your first view please so the other stuff won't distract you:
not to throw a wet blanket on this effort, but here's the rub. depending on one's already held opinion, he/she will argue what is irrefutable and indisputable to the point of absurdity.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
1) Have people Google nanothermite WTC. 2) Ask them what force other than top secret military grade explosives could have pulverized 424,000 cubic yards of concrete, converted it to the consistency of talcum and expelled up to 4,000 feet from the WTC? How could the 19 Arabs have even boarded the planes without tickets? Ticket agents have never allowed passengers to board without paying or at least using frequent flier miles and getting a boarding pass. Not one Arab is on CNN's list of passengers and crew.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
here's 2 more I think can reach the more simple minded: Man in the street 'plants' official story for them. Who is this man? 9-11 official story started minutes after. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0wHeekgPqk Another one their eyes canna deny - BBC reports WTC 7 collapse 23 min BEFORE IT HAPPENED !!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky90eEIzStw
Oh no.... not another TWOOFER_FAERIE™ thread!
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
This is part 6 of a 19 part YouTube series on 9/11 Coincidences. I haven't watched the entire series yet but you might be able to use it as a reference for your project. Part 6 mentions Able Warrior and Able Danger as a drill gone live at 7:44: 9/11 Coincidences (6/19) The Military runs drills often. I don't believe the Military implemented a drill on 9/11 that would have put real flights and passengers in danger from not being able to tell the difference. I suspect that "jets scrambled soft"/slow for intercept may have been a signal that there were no real hijackings in process. This video of a first responder at the Pentagon supports the evidence of no plane impact there: Lt. Robert Medairos didn't see any pieces, ABC, 15:25, 9/13 Edit to add: On a sidenote, at about 1:44 in the Lt. Medairos video above, something falls to the ground from the white-shirted man on the left running towards the helicopter.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
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------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
1:45 "...My first thought was, 'I couldn't believe what happened' and they said it was a plane and I didn't see any pieces of any plane and I couldn't believe that a plane hit the building...."
In chewing it over one way to do it is to first "hat" the person you're talking to and get them thinking and not being robotic in regurgitating and stating what they have been "told" to think in the mainstream media. There are a couple of different approaches that you can take but the key point is to gently get them thinking for themselves. If you know that they already distrust the media then start with that as entry point. Maybe with saying something like: "well we both know that the media is not always trustworthy - agreed?" This has to be done in a non-confrontational manner because you don't want to turn their defense of self on. Do not browbeat them - be willing before you start to take it slowly and gently. If they are trusting of the media then the prep might be to simply ask if they think the media is correct 100% of the time? Following that you might ask: "If the media is given false information that they think is true and then report that at face value is it still false? (At this point you are not trying to prove the entire media false just to get your subject to realize they are not always right.) If you have an example to throw in at that point all the better. Something preferably non-threatening - something that you are reasonably sure they already know, but just haven't looked at it from the point of view of the media being wrong. It could be celebrity news or something about a natural disaster etc., ... Here you are just trying to get into communication and get them thinking. Communication consists of Affinity, Reality, and Communication. There has to be some affinity between you and them for them to be receptive, and what you give them has to be "real" to them (if you violate their reality you'll lose them) and then Communication takes place. The three are interdependent. When you raise one it raises the others and vice versa. Then you need to hat them on the following basic principle of logic: The patter might go something like this: You: Ever study formal logic? Them: They'll give you either essentially a "yes" or a "no". (In either event you'll still take the next step. How you word it depends on their answer.) If yes then it might go something like this: "Then you may already be familiar with this, but in investigating something and sifting through all the information it is a basic principle that two things that are exclusive of each other can't both be true. Formally it goes that "If two datums are mutually exclusive the first thing you can know is that one, or both, are false". If they say "no" then it might go: Here's an interesting rule of logic you might find handy as a "tool": "If two datums are mutually exclusive the first thing you can know is that one, or both, are false". {In both cases you need to make sure they understand what the word "exclusive" means (excluding or not allowing other things) - given the level of literacy at present time. Ask them to explain it to you, and if it is apparent they don't have a definition handy. Written down on a card would be nice.} Then you want to get them thinking with this. A simple non-threatening example would be good here. Something along the lines of: "Think of it this way - if one person says it is day and another says it is night it has to be one or the other but it can't be both. Of course if someone says "Johnny's car is blue and someone else says it is green normally it couldn't be both but it could be neither - it might be blue-green and so two people see it differently so neither blue nor green is completely correct. See if you can get them to give their own example: Can you think of something like that from your own experience? The next step is to get them to admit the government lies. "Do you think the government always tells the truth?" Most people will say no, if they say yes then you are going to have to take this in baby steps and give them some examples that are clear cut of instances where the government has lied. For someone already a bit aware the "Gulf of Tonkin" might be handy but I am sure most of use here can think of some. It has to be real to you to communicate that reality to them and it needs to be pretty clear cut. I wouldn't start talking about fractional reserve banking just yet. From this point there is no set patter, but this is where the 911 for dummies list comes in handy. It has to be some of the stuff that is pretty straight forward and easily verifiable. One start might be: "Did you know that both the Chairman and Vice-Chairman of the 911 Commission have both publicly stated that their report is inaccurate and that government witnesses lied?" The path you take is going to vary from person to person. The key is to not get too technical right off the bat otherwise you'll lose them. You have to first present to them a series of simple contradictions that are easy to see and are real to them. Then you have to have the information handy to support what you are saying (including credible sources) - e.g., the time, place, form, and event. Again using the Chairman of the 911 Commission the time, place, form (written or spoken), and what exactly was said. Another might be to point out, and have the reference handy, that John Ashcroft stopped flying on commercial airlines over a month before 911 citing unspecified security risks. Another secondary point might be to point out that the Patriot Act is ten thousand pages long and yet it was rolled out the week after 911. Do you think it is possible that an intricate ten thousand page bill was written in a week? That it was rushed through so fast that Congress did not even have printed copies to read before they were forced to vote on it? By and large there is no set path here but you must tread lightly and not make the person wrong otherwise they'll clam up and close the shutters. Invite them to think with the information DO NOT get angry or frustrated with them as very often there is some key datum that they believe to be true which is actually false. Part of the opening of their mind is to find out what that consideration is false, gently showing it to be false - preferably with a reference they'll trust, and replacing it with true information. This might involve a little detective work on your part to figure out what it is. You can confirm this by asking a question: "Do you believe "x" to be true (which you know and can prove false)? This can be easy or laborious depending upon who you are working with, how bright they are to begin with, and the amount of false information they believe to be true. The point is to keep them in communication and slowly educate them by showing them the contradictions between the "Official Cover Story™" and the easily observable and verifiable facts. To be successful you have to do a little bit of homework - and don't get defensive yourself when they start spouting propaganda nonsense.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
OI's "how to talk to people dumber than me 101" lol
I'd like to suggest a different title for this list. The phrase "for Dummies" might be humorous if the topic is like home repairs or basic computer instruction but it is a put-off on such a critical issue that might make someone overly defensive in order to try and prove that identifier of them false and so could have the unintended consequence of making them even more unreceptive to reviewing the information. One start might be: "Did you know that both the Chairman and Vice-Chairman of the 911 Commission have both publicly stated that their report is inaccurate and that government witnesses lied?" The path you take is going to vary from person to person. The key is to not get too technical right off the bat otherwise you'll lose them. You have to first present to them a series of simple contradictions that are easy to see and are real to them. Then you have to have the information handy to support what you are saying (including credible sources) - e.g., the time, place, form, and event. Again using the Chairman of the 911 Commission the time, place, form (written or spoken), and what exactly was said. 9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey finally confesses 9-11 Commission could not do it's job - Part 3 of 3 [Calls 9/11 a 30 Year Old Conspiracy, starting @ 5:44]
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Arguing with them is like playing "Whack A Mole." Hit them on one point in one place, they pop up out of another hole in another place. Still want to know why ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flagged you to that post re: the list title but the video wasn't working correctly and forgot to reflag you on the edit screen.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Well Curly - as per your usual you are applying "Disinformation For Dummies". Too bad every one here has a higher I.Q. than you. Other than that I will not dignify your attempt to derail the thread by recreating the same old false argument which has been refuted now on multiple occasions. I would ask you to have the manners and grace to delete the post or for christine to remove it as inappropriate to the thread, and its intent. If you want to start a "911 Official Spin for Dummies" thread please feel free. However I suspect you know what it would attract - either genuine dummies or refutations which you are incapable of countering.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
OI's "how to talk to people dumber than me 101" lol No names of course. ;-)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Then you and your windbaggy ***High IQ*** shouldn't have any problem answering my heretofore unanswered 3 questions, just for starters. Still want to know why After we get done with that, we will review your flagrant hyprocrisy citing the "25 Rules of Disinformation" when you systematically violate every single one yourself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The transponder simply gives off the plane's identification, speed, and altitude. The radar still sees the aircraft as a blip however. Thing is, the aircraft disappeared off radar near the Ohio border. That shouldn't be possible, since the aircraft should still be visible even without the transponder.. THEN 20 minutes later an aircraft appeared on radar south of Washington DC, with no transponder, but whatever it was they could see on radar is what apparently struck the Pentagon. So it may well NOT have been Flight 77...
So what made the aircraft disappear from radar near Ohio? What direct evidence is there that Hani Hanjour piloted Flight 77?
Lots of money went into ATC upgrades after 9/11. He's probably playing dumb like he doesn't know anything about radar "dead zones" and other ATC problems at that time or like that data wasn't from the alleged FDR.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
http://whitts.alioth.net/Pageg7%20IFR%20Radio.htm: Be aware that in some areas and below certain altitudes communications and navigation ability can be lost. Oakland Flight Watch has a dead zone in the vicinity of Modesto.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
A much fainter blip, hard to distinguish between clutter and the clear strong signals of aircraft with transponders working. And no ID or altitude.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You mean like saying there were no moon landings, and calling Buzz Aldrin a "coward, liar, and a thief?"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reference this or withdraw it.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Here is a chronology of September 11, 2001 based on significant events. Where's the conspiracy? 9:03 a.m. United Airlines Flight 175 crashes into Two World Trade Center (south tower). 9:17 a.m. FAA closes NYC area airports. 9:21 a.m. NYC Port Authority closes all bridges and tunnels in NYC. 9:24 a.m. President Bush calls crashes "an apparent attack on our country". 9:32 a.m. New York Stock Exchange closed. 9:40 a.m. FAA orders all commercial flights grounded. 9:43 a.m. American Airlines Flight 77 crashes into the Pentagon. (Note: other sources cite the crash at 9:37 and 9:45) 9:45 a.m. White House evacuated. 9:59 a.m. Two World Trade Center (south tower) collapses. (note: other souces cite the collapse at 10:03, 10:05, & 10:06) 10:00 a.m. United Airlines Flight 93 crashes in Somerset County, Pennsylvania. (note: the crash happened slightly after 10 am, perhaps as late as 10:10 according to other sources) 10:10 a.m. Portion of the Pentagon collapses. 10:13 a.m. United Nations building evacuates. 10:22 a.m. State and Justice Departments, and World Bank, evacuated in Washington DC. 10:24 a.m. FAA reroutes inbound transatlantic flights to land in Canada. 10:28 a.m. One World Trade Center (north tower) collapses. 10:45 a.m. All federal office buildings in Washington DC evacuated. 10:48 a.m. Police confirm Pennsylvania plane crash. 10:53 a.m. New York's primary elections postponed. 10:54 a.m. Israel evacuates diplomatic missions. 10:57 a.m. NY Gov. Pataki announces closure of all state government offices. 11:02 a.m. Mayor Giuliani urges New Yorkers to stay at home and orders an evacuation of the area south of Canal Street 12:04 p.m. Los Angeles International Airport evacuated. 12:15 p.m. San Francisco International Airport evacuated. 12:15 p.m. US closes some Canada and Mexico border crossings. 1:02 p.m. NY Mayor Giuliani evacuates Manhattan south of Canal Street. 1:04 p.m. President Bush says: "Make no mistake, the United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts." (note: other sources cite this at 12:36) 1:27 p.m. Washington DC declares state of emergency in the city. 2:30 p.m. FAA announces suspension of US commercial air traffic until noon EST Wednesday 9/12/01. 4:00 p.m. CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor reports there are indications that Osama bin Laden is involved in attacks. 4:10 p.m. Seven World Trade Center reported to be on fire. 4:25 p.m. American Stock Exchange, Nasdaq, and New York Stock Exchange announce they will be closed Wednesday, 9/12. 4:45 p.m. City of New York announces that 200 firefighters and 78 police officers are missing.(Note: according to other sources, at 7:45 pm the New York Police department announced that at least 78 police officers were missing and that as many as half (200) of the first firefighters at the scene had been killed.) 5:20 p.m. Seven World Trade Center building collapses. 5:30 p.m. Explosions reported in Kabul, Afghanistan. (note: other sources cite this for 6 pm) 6:40 p.m. Press conference by US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld from the Pentagon. 6:45 p.m. President Bush arrives at the White House. (note: other sources say he arrived at 6:54) 8:30 p.m. President Bush addresses the nation. Search warrants obtained for homes and post office boxes in Florida. "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
~ you can also now use this thread here to demonstrate how easily the dis-info people can fill up an otherwise well-begun thread with endless BS, data irrellevent to your initial aim and argumentative as well ~ you asked for cooincedences, simpler things that don't take much head-scratching to recognize as being odd, or out of place - how's this for simple - in the currently known history of humanity's ability to build big steel high rises like this, only 3 have ever fallen down due to fire, all 3 were on the same day, all 3 were leased/insured by the same man let your friend do an internet search of other steel building fires, high in the air, infernos that lasted 24 hours or more leaving a smoking skeleton 'standing' once the fire was out
Excerpts from G Force calculations prove official Pentagon attack flight path impossible, page 1 This is the required descent if the officially reported altitude is used: But it is STILL impossible even if we hypothetically lower the plane to the top of the highest obstacle on the official flight path! There is no way a 757 would be able to withstand more than 5 or 6 G's. But the highest G rate recorded in the NTSB data for this stretch is only 1.75 G's for a mere 1/8th of a second! This 13 minute excerpt from Pilots for 9/11 Truth's latest release, 9/11: ATTACK ON THE PENTAGON, is really enough in itself to prove a military deception in Arlington that day. So to all the pseudo-skeptics who have repeated the mantra "got math?" since the initial article came out with the error.....the answer is: Sure do! And it proves your official 9/11 fantasy false. [See the 13 min. clip of the Pilots for 9/11 Truth video at the linked abovetopsecret.com site or copy this path to browser: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5732289044586758033&hl=en A # sign gets added at the end of that path automatically but the path copied to a browser without it works.]
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
And no ID or altitude. So apparently after losing the transponder info while the aircraft was nearing Ohio, it passed through an area which had no primary radar coverage. Either that is a crock, or it was an area which was known to the FAA not to have radar coverage. Would 19 "ragheads" who attacked us because "they hated our freedoms" have known that? From the 9/11 Commission Report; 141. FAA audio file, Herndon Command Center, National Operations Manager position, line 4525;FAA audio file,Herndon Command Center, National Traffic Management Officer east position, line 4530; FAA memo,“Full Transcription; Air Traffic Control System Command Center,National Traffic Management Officer, East Position; September 11, 2001,” Oct. 21, 2003, p. 13. 142. Primary radar contact for Flight 77 was lost because the “preferred” radar in this geographic area had no primary radar system, the “supplemental” radar had poor primary coverage, and the FAA ATC software did not allow the display of primary radar data from the “tertiary” and “quadrary” radars. As far as what the air traffic controllers had to say, did you know that the tape of their original observations was destroyed? At least six air traffic controllers who dealt with two of the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, made a tape recording that day describing the events, but the tape was destroyed by a supervisor without anyone making a transcript or even listening to it, the Transportation Department said today. you asked for cooincedences, simpler things that don't take much head-scratching to recognize as being odd, or out of place - how's this for simple - in the currently known history of humanity's ability to build big steel high rises like this, only 3 have ever fallen down due to fire, all 3 were on the same day, all 3 were leased/insured by the same man let your friend do an internet search of other steel building fires, high in the air, infernos that lasted 24 hours or more leaving a smoking skeleton 'standing' once the fire was out And not to forget of those 3 buildings that fell only 2 were hit by airplanes. Further WTC 7 had been hardened, reinforced and made stronger, by the city of NY because they were placing their emergency command center there. As well the building hit first, with the most direct damage to the core, fell AFTER the South Tower which was hit second and based on the exit angle of the nose of the plane (where the fireball occurred) it suffered less damge, and yet it collapsed first.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Reference this or withdraw it. I'll validate my quote against your baseless challenges, when you agree to withdraw from posting on the forum, for making degoratory and accusatory remarks about statements I make, when I can prove my statements accurate. You do not get unlimited challenges to accuse other people of inaccurate or lying remarks, without incurring some penalty on yourself.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ROTFL As though you have ever studied physics. I noticed that you were ABSENT with all your "differential equations" from the collapse theory thread that Christine locked. Have you no idea what happens when a large mass falls? You act as though that same mass exerts no pressure upon other masses around it.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You mean... cartoon!
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
So you agree with Bush while claiming to oppose him. OBL October 2004 TV Transcript It is known that those who hate freedom don't have souls with integrity, like the souls of those 19. May the mercy of God be upon them. We fought with you because we are free, and we don't put up with transgressions. We want to reclaim our nation. As you spoil our security, we will do so to you. I wonder about you. Although we are ushering the fourth year after 9/11, Bush is still exercising confusion and misleading you and not telling you the true reason. Therefore, the motivations are still there for what happened to be repeated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Review what happened with this captured video as the first tower collapsed. Check out about 4 minutes into the video. It collapsed not because of "demolitions"; it collapsed because of loss of structural integrity near the aircraft impact. It pancaked. edit: view about 16:50 into this video.... the building pancaked beneath the downward force of structurally weakened upper floors based on the jet aircraft... there was no other explosions.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Since the "Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine" claimed responsibility ... as a result of Osama bin Laden insistence, it is amazing that you think that ANY US agency was involved.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
That is a fake video. Did it ever occur to you that not everything you see on TV is the truth?
It pancaked. You're a fuckin retard.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
That isn't true at all. I enjoy FACTS, though. If you review the video of that same post I provided... it shows a TV crew on the Pentagon ... with thousands viewing the crash. I don't believe in TWOOFER_FAERIES™; though... but, it is phunney to watch you go into a tizzy ... believing in BS.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
OMG! So soon into your own thread while you cast vindictive aspersions! Should I ask Christine to intercede as FL did back on the demolition theory thread?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
I enjoy objective (verifiable) and measurable information that can be collaborated by science, witnesses and documentation ... or evidence. It has nothing to do with agreeing with someone because they are suspicious or swayed with BS by mere posters on an obscure Internet chit-chat channel that typically use and enjoy YouTube. Sorry, I don't buy BS as FACT.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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lol.......you mean that thread that was on the verge of "stellar"?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
But, you can buy BS, 'eh?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Me: Reference this or withdraw it. You: I'll validate my quote against your baseless challenges, when you agree to withdraw from posting on the forum, for making degoratory and accusatory remarks about statements I make, when I can prove my statements accurate. You do not get unlimited challenges to accuse other people of inaccurate or lying remarks, without incurring some penalty on yourself. In other words, you refuse to reference it or prove it accurate so withdraw it. The rest of your comment is baseless sound and fury signifying nothing other than you think that statement shouldn't be challenged at all; and want me to leave or be limited to what you think my "rations" should be because you imagine I've insulted you by not taking your word for it. You should leave to go sing along with your Official Conspiracy Theory "choir" if that's how you interpret calls for evidence.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
1) Elvis is ALIVE and KICKING! "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Don't lie buckie, you know I didn't ping christine to anything YOU said on that thread. It was your pal who was getting more than just a bit vulgar to a lady on that thread, and I basically just thought it was over the top, so I DID ping her to one of those posts for her information.
How about putting both of us on filter? Or are you supposed to have done that already...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LOL, what does that fake vid of bin Laden have to do with those "hijackers", some of whom are still alive, knowing where an aircraft would be virtually invisible due to lack of primary FAA radar in that particular area?
Speak of a continuous liar that has admitted his own BS in the past.... But did I say: No, I didn't. You just make stuff up ALL the time.... and again, you are caught.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Other than you with zero substantiation, who says it's fake... Bin Ladin in October 2004 was telling the US on international TV that if it continued its path, it would be facing bankruptcy. Now going on 6 years later, the US is facing war costs exceeding $1 Trillion with no end in sight, and is looking at bankruptcty.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any reason been floated as to why that was? Well, on the South Tower the top section broke off and was falling as a complete unit. Why is a good question. Possibly there was a limited structural failure from the impact damage, or some of the demolition charges were set off prematurely by the impact. The exact why is unknown and without a forensic examination, made impossible by disposing of the debris under guard (to China - despite higher domestic bids for scrap steel) to prevent a forensic exam, we are left to infer from the observed events. Be that as it may the top began tipping over and and toppling as a complete unit as one would expect in an ordinary catastrophic collapse. There was no pancaking and no microfine concrete dust. In other words it looked like a normal catastrophic collapse. Had it been allowed to continue the tower top sections that were toppling would have fallen over like a tree and then I would expect it to begin to disintegrate as it approached perpendicular as the load bearing structure was designed to stand up straight and when you tip it over the structure is not designed to face gravity at that angle. Now, if were allowed to continue to completion then that shoots the "Pancakes and Syrup" theory all to hell and back. So, the South Tower's demolition charges were set off early and if you watch the film you can see the building under the tipping section collapse thus removing the wedge it was pivoting on and so it falls straight down from that point. So, the early collapse of the South Tower is a clear sign of explosive demolition once you recognize what you are looking at. You can find an entire series of videos of the South Tower collapse here.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
this same crap is happening all over the internet - 2-3 posts by real people asking reasonable questions and/or offering info bits, only to be invaded by these ? whatever they are distracting everything, sometimes paid shills i think,sometimes just assholes, I met a few of them in RL - they laugh and brag about disrupting forums, it's a hobby for them ~ good luck finding/creating a place free from their garabage
What makes you so certain that it is "fake?"
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
A so-called "lady" who acted as a cheerleader and cadence counter for a bunch of gaybanter circle jerk remarks.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What are your sources for this claim? Do you have a link in terms of the "plane disappearing" from radar while over Washington half way into its descending turn? I don't think there IS a link, because the claim is false. CBS News reported that the radar tapes indicate the plane descended in a tight spiral, and did not say anything about the "plane disappearing from radar half way through its descending turn". From CBS News Top government officials have suggested that American Airlines Flight 77 was originally headed for the White House and possibly circled the Capitol building. CBS News Transportation Correspondent Bob Orr reports that's not what the recorded flight path shows. Eight minutes before the crash, at 9:30 a.m. EDT, radar tracked the plane as it closed to within 30 miles of Washington. Sources say the hijacked jet continued east at a high speed toward the city, but flew several miles south of the restricted airspace around the White House. At 9:33 the plane crossed the Capitol Beltway and took aim on its military target. But the jet, flying at more than 400 mph, was too fast and too high when it neared the Pentagon at 9:35. The hijacker-pilots were then forced to execute a difficult high-speed descending turn. Radar shows Flight 77 did a downward spiral, turning almost a complete circle and dropping the last 7,000 feet in two-and-a-half minutes. The steep turn was so smooth, the sources say, it's clear there was no fight for control going on. And the complex maneuver suggests the hijackers had better flying skills than many investigators first believed. The jetliner disappeared from radar at 9:37 and less than a minute later it clipped the tops of street lights and plowed into the Pentagon at 460 mph. Some eyewitnesses believe the plane actually hit the ground at the base of the Pentagon first, and then skidded into the building. Investigators say that's a possibility, which if true, crash experts say may well have saved some lives. At the White House Friday, spokesman Ari Fleischer saw it a different way. "That is not the radar data that we have seen," Fleischer said, adding, "The plane was headed toward the White House." Ten days after the hijacked airliner slammed into the Pentagon, leaving 189 people dead or missing including those on the plane, and gouging a giant smoky slice out of the world's biggest office building, some 300 people were looking for clues. Officials said no survivors had been taken out of the building since the day of the crash and 104 people have been identified. Rescue crews have turned over the operational control of the crash site to the FBI. The transfer clears the way for the criminal investigation to intensify. Additional human remains are expected to be recovered during the criminal investigation at the site, which could last for a month. The fire chief in Arlington County, Va., says all areas of the Pentagon (with the exception of the fourth- and fifth-floor corridors of the three outer rings) have been released to the Department of Defense. The last civilian urban search-and-rescue team was leaving the site Friday. Military engineers from the Army's Fort Belvoir completed their work Friday morning It's quite clear how honest YOU are bucko.
And what was the purpose of the war in Iraq? BTW, why do you think the hijackers decided to take over Flight 77 just as it entered an area where primary radar was not available? Hmmm, let me think. Perhaps so they could pull a SWITCHEROO between the real Flight 77 and some other aircraft, eh?
You need not tell me about that, I saw the crap thrown at you (and me) for simply asking FACTS ... and all of a sudden, WHAM! by piles of posters .... we are called anything but serious posters looking for a grain of truth within this conspiracy theory. Nope, we were called all kinds of vindictive things (often behind our backs) that have no truth or method of evidence. It's a wonder the thread still exits on 4um.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You mean the one that brought a tear to everyone's eyes from laughing at buck of the loose screw?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Hey there, FL...wanna rassle?!
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, bin Laden initially said he had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. He is also reported to have died in December 2001.
What's up Mudboy, haven't seen you around here for quite some time.
The video you posted yourself at #45 denies that anonymous charge at 2:45. There is evidence, however, that at least one of the Five Dancing Israelis arrested that day wanted us to believe that the Palestinians were our problem.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Unlike yourself, running around for over 50 posts ... begging for detailed data because you don't know how to use the Internet, I showed the documents which deflated your off-subject remarcks concerning credentials about Hani Hanjour. You eventually admitted you were wrong (as usual).... For myself, I research before jumping in and making an issue. Sure, the information AND my perspective is not agreeable. It NEVER has been depending on the subject matter or the folks I address.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
They let anyone in here...
I ran out of smart sounding quotes Well, according to Paul Wofowitz, highly placed Bush Admin Joo and gadabout international banker, it was so the Iraqis could throw flowers at American feet for liberating them from Saddam, put their huge oil production online to keep world oil prices down, and generate enough oil revenue to pay completely for the American occupation and war of their country. And of course have no Iranian influence contaminating the American progress. Care to comment on how any of those comments, which are the real "Official Government Story," have panned out? There are no areas where "primary radar is not available" when transponders are transmitting. You're going to have to do better than that....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I know. What is important to point out is that Palestinians AND MUSLIMA around the world were doing their LA_LA_LA_LA all over Palestine IMMEDIATELY after the attacks. Complicity? Of course.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
"...we were called all kinds of vindictive things (often behind our backs) that have no truth or method of evidence." SUX, doesn't it, Bill?! "It's a wonder the thread still exits on 4um." No bucky, that's not the way to approach the truth...please ping me to the thread in question and i will examine the evidence and render a final verdict...and we can put all this silly ugliness behind us. We R all on the same side...unless U really have become and radical Leftist Marxist ideologue like I've often rumored (and YOU've denied)...Bush, Sr.....Slick Willie......Dubyuh...............and the friggin' RAT-Messiah...can't we all git along and realize the only way outta this mess is to shrink the hell outta DeeCee and its seemingly limitless influence over our lives?! Regards...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, I'm often described as a serial abuser of the first amendment, mi amigo...MUD BTW...Sultan88 ROCKS!!
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, There you go, back to YOUR gaybanter again. You are the one who starts these things, that and your little puppy bucko. Then you both start crying little girl tears when people respond in kind, posting pages and pages of inane ad hominem junk, muddying up the thread, then say it was "incredible" and you "refuted" everything that was presented in terms of facts. No, all you did was show how incredibly dumb and dishonest you are.
Yeah, ownership's been FREEEEEEZING all my best threads...U know how it is when ya gotta fight TheMan at every turn...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, I mean when the transponder ISN'T transmitting. That's what the 9/11 Commission listed as the reason the FAA couldn't track Flight 77 as it flew into Ohio, as shortly after the transponder was turned off, the primary return disappeared from radar. It was explained as a lack of primary radar capabilities in that area.
ROTFL ... a final verdict? .... the thread we are talking about freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...gi?ArtNum=120727&Disp=All went for 1200 posts before being locked.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Do like me and just assume everything you say is wise and the rest of the krap just sorta falls into place...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Surely other sites are sorely in need of Aggravators and Buck's limitless supply of wisdumb. They have already shared too much of it here and should go where their "stellar" buffoonery will be appreciated.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Asking for proof isn't "being wrong", and since you and AgAviator weren't posting the proof, I assumed it didn't exist. So ok, there is proof that Hanjour had an actual FAA license (although ALL indications point to the fact he SHOULDN'T have had one). You take a molehill and try to make a mountain out of it.
ROTFL...I figgered you'd appreciate the irony, dude...I recall back when you usedta have a helluva sense of humor...mud
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Exactly, a combination of shills and morons. The Shills and their masters very much do not like We The People holding forth in an intelligent exchange because that is the enemy of propaganda.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
That is because all he has is molehills. He has made one point stand while a hundred have fallen. His fragile ego can't handle it, and his fixed ideas won't let him change his "mind".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Such as it is.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Surely other sites are sorely in need of Aggravators and Buck's limitless supply of wisdumb. They have already shared too much of it here and should go where their "stellar" buffoonery will be appreciated. Freeptardia and Defective Underground?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Agreed. I know. That is PROOF you can't perform your own research which substantiates my earlier post. And that same certification PROVES, that Hanjour was trained to some extent to slam a jet into a building. It is easy to come clean, FL... you are among friends looking for truth.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
LOL! (And I nailed "100" without even trying - eat your heart out wud.)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
The thread history, which is clearly time and date stamped by poster, puts the lie to your false claims. That's why your cohorts are complaining buck & show up here to reply to your behind-the-backs, hopeless liar.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Those are good choices for them.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. There certainly has to be SOME reason why buck ignores all physical and cimcumstantial evidence, and makes up his own laws of physics. BTW, has either of them explained why Hani Hanjour is listed as the Flight 77 hijacker who flew the aircraft from Ohio to Washington, then flew it into the Pentagton at 530 mph while flying 20 feet off the ground? Have YOU ever seen any evidence indicating he was in fact the pilot of that aircraft?
Ok, where on this thread have I posted any "gaybanter"?
Paranoid much, shillster?
And exactly how many dozens of posts did you make flogging your claim that there was no license, your ***molehill?*** If you'd kept your remarks and their number within reason, you wouldn't have made such a ***crash landing*** when buck actually did post the documents showing you were completely full of it. Unfortunately because you were so vicious and unrelenting in your attacks on someone for stating true facts, you came down pretty hard when proven wrong. That's no one's problem but yours.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stating facts I can cite references to, projector.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Man, you have patience with these folks... now the "gay" stuff again? Soon, they will remarck about the creams and jellies that have witnessed, just as the "conspiracy by the government."
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The same place buck & I ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, it simply proves he was able to "buy" a license he wasn't qualified for. Additionally, it did not in any way "qualify" him to fly a jet, he NEVER flew a jet in his life, and he couldn't even fly a single engine propeller driven plane well enough to rent one. Besides him basically being unable to fly at all, the fact that the aircraft is alleged to have flown 20 feet off the ground at 530 mph indicates that the pilot was sitting in a control room remotely piloting the aircraft, or that jet wasn't a 757. In fact, the damage to the Pentagon indicates it wasn't. So, what evidence do you have that Hani Hanjour actually flew that plane? Why him, what evidence is there that he was even onboard that plane at all?
"both start crying little girl tears when people respond in kind, posting pages and pages of inane ad hominem junk, muddying up the thread, then say it was "incredible" and you "refuted" everything that was presented in terms of facts" Posting facts isn't "gaybanter".
Ah, the ole blame your victims of the crimes you have perpetrated against them trick, eh? You didn't prove me wrong in ANYTHING, you simply repeat the same discredited claims over, and over, and over, declaring victory each time. By the way, what evidence do you have that Hani Hanjour was the pilot of Flight 77 from Ohio to Washigton?
I remember O_I pulling a fast one on a thread.... something to the point, that he used his "differential equations" to PROVE that the WTC didn't pancake. He said something to the effect, "but that was years ago but I will look it up and reproduce it." He never did. It was all HOT_AIRE as always. Yet, DEs aren't required to understand, F = MA and in conjunction with the FORCE of jet aircraft slamming into building we also have collaborative photographic information of "pancaking." I have already posted a link @45.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Not true as always. It was an FAA licensed instructor signing his credentials. You have lied again.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You have NO "photographic evidence" of pancaking. There is ABUNDENT EVIDENCE of the towers turning to dust however.
Then you got nothing to complain about when I call your so-called ***lady*** a Circle Jerk Fag Hag. I can take the high road or the low road, it doesn't matter to me. You'll get back what you give.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No evidence of any pancakes but plenty of eyewitnesses who saw molten steel. And from office fires! Guess that was the syrup for the "pancakes."
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. No idiot, EVERY flight instructor who delt with him reports that he was incompetent, could not perform basic manuevers, and even some of THEM questioned whether his "license" was a fake, since he basically couldn't fly at all. So he had some FAA contractor sign off on his license, that in itself should be investigated as to how such an incompetent person can get both a private and a commercial FAA pilot's license. It indicates our skies are filled with totally inept pilots, as basically anyone off the street can get one.
Yes, I do. It was on TV as shown in video @45. The pancaking occurred because of the upper floors losing strength to support the mass. It all occurred at or near the impact of the planes. There was no demolition.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Yep, and the pulverized concrete was the "confectioners sugar".
That's be some nasty-@$$ed pancakes, wouldn't it? Molten steel for syrup and pulverized concrete to top it off. Or maybe they used the pulverized concrete to make the batter.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Here we go again.... FL, cut the crap ... you can't refute the evidence (DOCUMENTED FROM THE FAA) and his own trainers.... you go on and on and on... attempting to disprove something that exists. You remind me of someone that pushes on a rope hoping it will become a straight and equilateral length in a unidirectional consistent with the same vector applied.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I think that was a staged deception by Israel's damage-control propaganda- meisters to turn attention away from the Dancing Israelis arrested here and onto Israel's designated enemies.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
It's never occurred to them that 2 opposing sides can both want the same conflict for different reasons: That is, each of thinks thinks their side will win in the end!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That certainly DOES NOT indicate "pancaking", it indicates that the bottom structure was being PULVERIZED ahead of the actual falling structure. A real "pancaking" would have simply caused the floors to drop, leaving the center core and exterior columns intact. However, EVERYTHING was pulverized, except for the very bottom section of the center core, which then fell apart shortly after the initial collapse. Additionally, due to the loss of mass (the top structure is seen being PULVERIZED), there would be less mass falling on lower floors, where the floors should have been able to handle the increased load, at least for a period of time. There is no pancaking involved, and your video doesn't prove what you claim.
Here you go! "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
buck still arguing that the planes caused the buildings to fall? According to the people who designed and engineered them that would not happen, they were designed with that in mind (at least the possibility). And of course it stands to reason they would have had to consider that since it had happened before (Empire State Building). And I am sure they took into account that any plane that hit it would probably have some fuel onboard since it is still not possible to get them to fly without it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. what we really want to know is what is on all those videos from around the pentagon that were confiscated, what is the liar movement trying to hide?
Pulled by what? Your continuous yarn and balley-hoo? EVIDENCE, FACT, WITNESSES that prove your conspiracy. And, you can't because the pancaking occurred from the TOP FLOORS downward just below the impacts of the respective jet aircraft. Not UPWARD as in a controlled or even an uncontrolled demolition.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
@45 ... there is LIVE footage showing thousands of Pentagon workers looking at the disaster.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You clearly are ignoring what his INSTRUCTORS have said. Let me remind you that the info is highly referenced and not subject to your interpretations... From Al Qaeda’s Top Gun - Willful Deception by the 9/11 Commission The Legend Unraveled According to an FBI chronology for Hani Hanjour cited by the 9/11 Commission, Hanjour first travelled to the U.S. in 1991 on a visa issued in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia under the name "Hani Saleh Hanjoor", in order to attend the University of Arizona’s Center for English as a Second Language. After returning to Saudi Arabia, he was again issued a visa at Jeddah in March, 1996. Back in the U.S., he attended classes at the ELS Language Center in Oakland, California from May until August. For a week in September, he took ground training lessons at the Sierra Aeronautical Academy Airline Training Center (SAAATC). From the end of September until mid- October, he purchased flight instruction from Cockpit Resources Management (CRM) in Scottsdale, Arizona. He then returned to Saudi Arabia once more.20 The Washington Post reported that according to Hanjour’s brother, Yasser, "Hanjour applied for a job at the state- owned Saudi Arabian Airlines but was told that he lacked sufficient grades.... He said the company told him it would reconsider his application only if he acquired a commercial pilot’s license in the United States."21 Yasser characterized Hanjour "as a frustrated young Saudi who wanted desperately – but never succeeded – to become a pilot for the Saudi national airline."22 Hanjour made plans to return to the U.S. and was issued a third visa in Jeddah in November 1997. His visa application contained red flags that should have resulted in his visa being denied. He failed to write in the name and address of the school he would be attending and provided no proof, as required by law, that he could furnish financial support for himself.23 With that application accepted, he reentered the U.S. and took pilot training from CRM again in December.24 It was at this time that, according the 9/11 Commission, Hanjour began his training "in earnest". But in reality, while at CRM, Hanjour never finished coursework required to get his certificate to be able to fly a single-engine aircraft.25 The New York Times reported that "he was a lackadaisical student who often cut class and never displayed the passion so common among budding commercial airline pilots."26 ABC News reported that when he returned to CRM that December, "He was trying for his private pilot’s license", but according to one of his instructor’s, he "was a very poor student who skipped homework and missed flights."27 The school’s attorney said that when Hanjour reapplied again later in 2000, "We declined to provide training to him because we didn’t think he was a good enough student when he was there in 1996 and 1997."28 The school’s owner described him as a "weak student" who "was wasting our resources."29 He said, "One of the first accomplishments of someone in flight school is to fly a plane without an instructor. It is a confidence-building procedure. He managed to do that. That is like being able to pull a car out and drive down the street. It is not driving on the freeway." Although it normally took three months for students to earn their private pilot’s certificate, Hanjour "did not accomplish that at my school." He added, "We didn’t want him back at our school because he was not serious about becoming a good pilot."30 The Chicago Tribune reported that at CRM, "A flight instructor said Hanjour left an impression by being unimpressive. ‘He was making weak progress,’ said Duncan Hastie, president of CRM."31 Hanjour switched schools, and from the end of December 1997 until April 1999, took flight lessons from Arizona Aviation in Mesa, Arizona.24 There, too, the 9/11 Commission’s own evidence contradicts the characterization that Hanjour was training "in earnest". An FBI document cited by the Commission stated that "Hanjour often participated in flying lessons for a one to two weeks [sic] and then would disappear for weeks or months at a time." The school "often had to call Hanjour in an effort to get Hanjour to pay his bill."32 Buried in the footnote for the paragraph suggesting Hanjour began training "in earnest", the 9/11 Commission report acknowledged that "Hanjour initially was nervous if not fearful in flight training" and that "His instructor described him as a terrible pilot."33 FBI documents cited by the Commission reveal that witnesses from the school told investigators that "Hanjour was a terrible pilot. Hanjour had difficulty understanding air traffic control, the methods for determining fuel management and had poor navigational skills." The FBI was told by one witness that "the only flying skill Hanjour could perform was flying the plane straight", and that "he did not believe Hanjour’s poor flying skills were due to a language barrier." He was "a very poor pilot who did not react to criticism very well. Hanjour was very, very nervous inside the cockpit to the point where Hanjour was almost fearful."32 In April 1998, Hanjour applied for his private pilot certificate with a single-engine rating, but he failed his test. One of the tasks documents show he would need to be reexamined for was "coordinated turns to headings"34 He tried again later that same month and this time received his private pilot certificate under the name "Hani Saleh Hanjoor," with an "Airplane Single Engine Land" rating. In an apparent attempt to bolster the misleading characterization that Hanjour began training "in earnest", the 9/11 also stated that it took only "Several more months" to obtain his commercial pilot certificate. In fact, it took Hanjour another year of training before he managed to obtain that second certificate. On April 15, 1999, the FAA issued a commercial pilot certificate to him under the name "Hani Saleh Hanjoor."24 The certificate was issued by Daryl M. Strong, an independent contractor for the FAA, with an "Airplane Multiengine Land" rating. To obtain the certificate, Hanjour’s records show he flew his check ride in a Piper PA 23-150 "Apache", a four-seat twin- engine plane, which Hanjour was in command of for 14.8 hours of the 27 hours completed for the test.35 Contrary to the Washington Post’s assertion that this certificate allowed him "to fly commercial jets", in fact it only allowed him to begin passenger jet training. Hanjour did so, only to fail the class.36 As the Associated Press reported, the "certification allowed him to begin passenger jet training at an Arizona flight school despite having what instructors later described as limited flying skills and an even more limited command of English."37 Furthermore, there remains an open question about whether Hanjour was actually qualified to receive that certificate in the first place. According to Heather Awsumb, a spokeswoman for Professional Airways Systems Specialists (PASS), a union that represents FAA employees, "The real problem is that regular oversight is handed over to private industry", since private contractors "receive between $200 and $300 for each check flight. If they get a reputation for being tough, they won’t get any business."38 To obtain a commercial pilot license, the applicant must "Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language." It seems highly dubious that Hanjour met that qualification, as the 9/11 Commission itself acknowledges that his English skills were inadequate. The certificate does not allow its holder to fly any commercial aircraft, but is issued for "the aircraft category and class rating sought". Hanjour only trained in light propeller planes like the single- engine Cessna and twin-engine Piper, and had never flown a jet aircraft.39 Additionally, commercial pilot certification is different from the Airline Transport Pilot certification held by airline captains. To obtain a commercial certificate with a multi-engine rating, Hanjour only needed to log in 250 hours of flight time, whereas to obtain an Airline Transport Pilot certificate, pilots are required to log 1,500 hours.40 Needless to say, having the ability to control a Cessna 172 or Piper Apache propeller plane does not translate into the ability to handle a Boeing 757 jetliner – and Hanjour could barely do the former. Anyone unfamiliar with pilot certification could easily make the mistake of thinking a "commercial pilot license" meant Hanjour was qualified to fly a jet airliner, a conclusion reinforced by the Washington Post’s false assertion that his certificate allowed him "to fly commercial jets." The 9/11 Commission report reinforced that false impression, only vaguely hinting at the truth six paragraphs later by saying that Hanjour subsequently "wanted to train on multi- engine planes". But the Commission then further obfuscated that truth by asserting that this was merely "refresher" training (a matter to which we will return). Hanjour again left the country on April 28, 1999.24 As the 9/11 Commission report observed, when he returned to Saudi Arabia to apply in the civil aviation school in Jeddah, he was rejected.24 He subsequently began making preparations to return to the U.S. once again.24 In September 2000, Hanjour was denied a student visa after indicating that he wanted to remain in the U.S. for three years, and yet listed no address for where he intended to stay in Arizona.23 But he tried again for a student visa under the name "Hani Hanjour" later that same month. This time, he wrote that he wanted to stay for one year instead of three, and listed a specific address in California, not Arizona, where he said he was going on his first application. Despite these obvious red flags, he was issued the visa.23 He entered the U.S. in December and took more flight lessons that month at Arizona Aviation. From February until mid-March, he attended Pan Am International Flight Academy, also known as Jet Tech International, in Mesa, Arizona.24 It was upon his return to Arizona Aviation in 2000 that the 9/11 Commission stated he wanted "refresher" training on multi-engine planes but was advised to discontinue "because his English was not good enough." The implications are that Hanjour was merely brushing up on skills he had already achieved through previous flight training, and that the only reason he was advised not to continue was because of his poor language skills. But turning to the report’s footnote, it reads: "For his desire to train on multi- engine planes, his language difficulties, the instructor’s advice, and his reaction, see FBI report of investigation, interview of Rodney McAlear, Apr. 10, 2002."41 That document reveals that McAlear worked not for Arizona Aviation, but rather "instructed Hani Hanjour in ground school flight training at Jet Tech in the early 2001."42 The 9/11 Commission, by misleadingly suggesting that this occurred at Arizona Aviation, apparently intended to bolster the claim that this was "refresher" training by making it sound as though this occurred at Hanjour’s old school, when the truth is that it occurred when he was at a different school he'd never been to before. The 9/11 Commission was also deceiving the public suggesting that the sole reason Hanjour was not able to complete his training on multi-engine planes was because his English wasn’t good enough. As already noted, an instructor at Arizona Aviation thought his earlier failings there were due primarily to his poor flight skills, and not because of his language inadequacies. More importantly, again, this training actually occurred at Jet Tech. Turning to the documentary record, as article in the New York Times entitled "A Trainee Noted for Incompetence" noted, his instructors there "found his piloting skills so shoddy and his grasp of English so inadequate that they questioned whether his pilot’s license was genuine". As a result, they actually reported him to the FAA and requested confirmation that his certificate was legitimate. The staff there "feared that his skills were so weak that he could pose a safety hazard if he flew a commercial airliner." Marilyn Ladner, a vice president at the academy, told the Times, "There was no suspicion as far as evildoing. It was more of a very typical instructional concern that ‘you really shouldn’t be in the air.’"43 As already discussed, it remains an open question whether Hanjour was actually qualified to hold his commercial pilot certificate. It was at this time, as the Associated Press reported, that "Federal aviation authorities were alerted in early 2001 that an Arizona flight school believed one of the eventual Sept. 11 hijackers lacked the English and flying skills necessary for the commercial pilot’s license he already held, flight school and government officials say."44 The manager of JetTech said, "I couldn’t believe he had a commercial license of any kind with the skills that he had."45 Whereas the 9/11 Commission suggested that, because he "persevered", Hanjour "completed the initial training", thus leading the public to the conclusion that his skills had advanced accordingly, the Times offered a very different account: "Ultimately administrators at the school told Mr. Hanjour that he would not qualify for the advanced certificate. But the ex- employee said Mr. Hanjour continued to pay to train on a simulator for Boeing 737 jets. ‘He didn’t care about the fact that he couldn’t get through the course,’ the ex- employee said. Staff members characterized Mr. Hanjour as polite, meek and very quiet. But most of all, the former employee said, they considered him a very bad pilot. ‘I’m still to this day amazed that he could have flown into the Pentagon,’ the former employee said. ‘He could not fly at all.’"43 Another Times article similarly noted that when Hanjour enrolled in February 2001 "at a Phoenix flight school for advanced simulator training to learn how to fly an airliner, a far more complicated task than he had faced in earning a commercial license", his "instructors thought he was so bad a pilot and spoke such poor English that they contacted the Federal Aviation Administration to verify that his license was not a fake."46 According to FAA inspector Michael Gonzales, when Pan Am International Flight Academy contacted the FAA to verify that Hanjour’s license was valid, "There should have been a stop right then and there." The Associated Press reported that Gonzales "said Hanjour should have been re-examined as a commercial pilot, as required by federal law."37 But that was not done. Instead, the FAA inspector who "even sat next to the hijacker, Hani Hanjour, in one of the Arizona classes" and "checked records to ensure Hanjour’s 1999 pilot’s license was legitimate" concluded that "no other action was warranted" and actually suggested that Hanjour get a translator to help him complete his class. "He offered a translator," said the school’s manager, who "was surprised" by the suggestion. "Of course, I brought up the fact that went against the rules that require a pilot to be able to write and speak English fluently before they even get their license."45 Where are the videos of the approach and the impact? Oh, and what evidence is there that Hani Hanjour flew that aircraft?
?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
There weren't any Palestinians video taping the buildings as they were attacked, having cameras setup BEFORE the attacks even occured. There WERE some Israelis that DID however... From The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested On 9-11; bucky you and the rest of the liar movement are so full of crap you should in fact be referred to as the lying bowel movement. you know full well the video in question is that which shows what really happened at 0932 9-11-01 and you also know it is being held under wraps because it does not depict what you and the rest of the liar movement claim. is there a cure for your factaphobia?
Oh, and what evidence is there that Hani Hanjour flew that aircraft? ? DO you know of any evidence indicating Hani Hanjour was onboard that aircraft, and that he took control of the plane and flew it from Ohio to Washington DC?
that factaphobic bucky knows those are the videos that needs to be seen by the public but can't because it will destroy the liar movement. when the liar movement is destroyed bucky and AGovshill are out of a job, poor saps.
So you're saying that a covert operation who wanted to blame "19 angry ragheads" for the attacks would have performed a text book controlled demolition, making it obvious that's what it was, eh? It's NOT impossible to set off explosive charges to go off under the immediate floors below the impacted area, then set them off sequentially on each lower floor using remotely controlled charges, detonating at the precise times needed for the top to fall down through the lower floors.
at best AGovshill is the bottom of the gutter of the low road.
Footage of 9/11 Celebrations An Israeli Fake http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=0xnaFLxd1aI&feature=related
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
It's obvious you have no class, and it's obvious that you respond to facts with ad hominems. It's all you have.
Yep, a truly distasteful character who has no qualms about launching into a woman with vulgarities.
the humanity....we missed Saint Alfonzo's pancake breakfast.
Interpretation, not fact: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the ease of initiating the charges using strain gauges or attenuated seismic initiation is child's play as is merely using 32 feet per second per second as the base timing sequence.
(1) Why is a 1/2 G turn called a "fighter pilot maneuver" when student pilots must pull 2 G's and fighter pilots pull over 8 G's. (2) Why is descending at 46.4667 feet per second or 31.818 MPH vertically called a "fighter manueuver" when roller coasters go faster than that. (3) Why a controller can express an opinion of a turn that does not even show up on the radar screen for its last half as being a "precision" turn she could not even see.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- could be he is just ascairt of the women folk. they intimidate him?
where are the videos from around the pentagon that were confiscated? oh that's right those can't be released as they do not depict the official fairy tale championed by you and the rest of the liar movement.
Sorry bubba, real women don't hoot, holler, and cheerlead around homos.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Give me the source that states fighter aircraft ALWAYS pull over 8 g's. Also, give me a source that states how many g's are required for the FAA private pilot's license.
It was travelling at 400 mph, and the turn was precise. BTW, what evidence do you have which indicates Hanjour was onboard that aircraft, and that it was in fact him at the controls?
State a source which indicates the aircraft disappeared off the radar halfway into the turn. Which turn, the first, or the last?
Also, give me a source Nobody said that. However fighter pilots need to pull over 8 G's just to break away from SAM'S. When an irreversible setup exists making you unable to post further after I do prove what you challenge and claim to be false.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, and the Apollo moonship needed to travel faster than escape velocity to break Earth orbit. Now, what makes you say that the manuever "couldn't have been that of a fighter jet" since the aircraft didn't pull 8 g's?
Can you please say that in English? Are your "constucts" failing? Now, give me a source that provides some evidence that Hani Hanjour was onboard Flight 77, and that he took control of the aircraft somewhere close to the Ohio border, then flew the aircraft from Ohio to Washington, and flew the aircraft into the Pentagon while flying 20 feet off the ground at 530 mph in a Boeing 757.
Which is against FAA regulations. Maybe it wasn't a real FAA examiner after all. If it was, he is a highly corrupt individual.
What Fox News wasn't counting on was that not everyone would be as naive and gullible as you, buck. They gave those kids candy to get them to act like they're celebrating.
I ran out of smart sounding quotes I ran out of smart sounding quotes deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Assume? There's plenty of evidence for it.
when did she ever cheerlead around you? I for one am still waiting for those videos.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
There certainly has to be SOME reason why buck ignores all physical and cimcumstantial evidence, and makes up his own laws of physics. BTW, has either of them explained why Hani Hanjour is listed as the Flight 77 hijacker who flew the aircraft from Ohio to Washington, then flew it into the Pentagton at 530 mph while flying 20 feet off the ground? Have YOU ever seen any evidence indicating he was in fact the pilot of that aircraft? I have never at any time or in any place seen ANY evidence to prove that Hani Hanjour was behind the stick on Flight 77. It was simply asserted and repeated by the lackey controlled media without any evidence but treated as though it was a proven fact. I am sure that the cover story was written in advance and was simply rolled out over the first couple of days and then given constant repetition to implant the story. Since many people take uncritically anything presented on the almighty Television it was simply repeated until it stuck. However, then it began to unravel. Being a lie he has to be constantly reinforced lest the truth emerge. The problem with a lie versus the truth is that the truth is much stronger. The truth has to do nothing to continue being true because it is the "isness" the reality - the exact time, place, form, and event. Because it is the truth it is the most basic fundamental reality and the lie is an alteration of that reality of exact time, place, form, and event. However, because it is an alteration it has no sticking power and must be constantly repeated and reinforced. That is why the bad guys have to employ so many shills to pepper forums with their lies because they have the weaker position.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
careful you are dealing with guy who could on a regular basis come in second place in a debate with yukon, third if mad dog chimed in.
Give yourself a source. It is known that Flight 77 did not arrive at its destination. There are hundreds of people who worked on a report saying that it crashed into the Pentagon, and there are hundreds more who provided evidence and testimony used to arrive at that conclusion. Before you proceed any further, you need to state why they are all wrong and you have some privileged and specific information that overrides everything they've said and done. And this must be done with clear supportable facts of your own, not just nit picking at things in their proceedings and processes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why weren't the windows broken where the wings should have hit them?
As usual, the CT'ers can't go for any length of time without going to the gutter with zero redeeming content.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Give me a source which provides evidence that indicates Hani Hanjour flew the plane from Ohio to Washington, then flew it into the Pentagon. Can you even prove he was on that plane?
Speaking in generalities again and acting as though the unproven generalities are facts simply because you say so. Gosh, I just don't know what it is, but for some strange reason I find your unsupported assertions about as believable as a Used Car Salesman on the make.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
the clear supportable facts are the government refuses to release all the videos they confiscated from around the pentagon on 9-11-01 now why is that unless those videos do not depict the scenario they created for shills like you and the rest of the liar movement to plug.
You're contributing nothing here. The thread isn't aimed at you or asking for anything that you have. All you two are is a source of noise. It was you noise makers who trashed a thread started by buckeroo titled "9/11 Demolition Theory Challenged," with obscene and personal attacking posts having zero content. Looking through the posting history, we have a perfect case study of what phony little bitches you all are to accuse anybody else of dumping on somebody else's thread. This is just the first 50 out of 1200 total posts 911 Demolition Theory Challenged #10 Challenged by morons and stooges, who cares? God is always good! RickyJ posted on 2010-07-17 18:23:33 ET #11 Fair assumption for idiots, but a damn dumb one for anyone else. God is always good! RickyJ posted on 2010-07-17 18:26:34 ET #30.Bullshit. When you want to get shredded (again) let me know. Rotara posted on 2010-07-17 19:38:38 ET #31. God bless you for spending your precious time engaging serial spinners like AGitprop and bohicAROO...intellectually dishonest posters don't excite me so much anymore, especially when frauds like these have been shown on many occasions to be less than honest, at the very least. Rotara posted on 2010-07-17 19:43:48 ET #35. not to pigs like you Rotara posted on 2010-07-17 20:06:43 ET #40.lol.........OH NO!!! What ever shall you do? Buck has gone and put you on bozo filter.......oh, the horror of it all! Oh, de humanity!! abraxas posted on 2010-07-17 20:12:18 ET #41.perfect, asswipe Rotara posted on 2010-07-17 20:14:03 ET #42.yeah, well...i don't exactly know HOW MUCH counseling i'll need to maybe get through this. /thick sarcasm Rotara posted on 2010-07-17 20:15:32 ET #44. Lol.......I have a sinister plan to pay for all of that counseling. Draft a ten step plan: How to get onto Buck's Bozo Filter. Many at 4um will open their wallets happily for such a valuable, dare I say priceless, information. They will pay double if the plan applies to AGAviator. abraxas posted on 2010-07-17 20:20:34 ET ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- he wont because he can't, his handler figured everyone was as stupid as AGovshill and bucky are and would just take their word for it like the liar movement members did/do.
You apparently feel a need to try to make this thread about you. We aren't interested in you, what we're interested in is in seeing any evidence whatsoever that Hani Hanjour boarded Flight 77, that he hijacked it as the aircraft was approaching Ohio, that he flew it from Ohio to Washington, then flew it into the Pentagon. Can you even prove he was onboard that flight?
He's seriously dodging the request isn't he...
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
all he has ever done because as you and I and everyone knows AGovshill and the rest of the liar movement has nothing.
prior to the "kinder, gentler navy" we used to post signs in our work spaces that read "Hire the handicapped, they are fun to watch." for the likes of AGovshill's type.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Whether it's intentional or not it's certainly all they're doing.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
911 Timeline He is selected for additional scrutiny by airport security under the FAA’s CAPPS program (see (6:20 a.m.-7:48 a.m.) September 11, 2001), but this has no consequences. The final two Flight 77 hijackers, brothers Nawaf and Salem Alhazmi, check in at approximately 7:29 a.m. The customer service representative makes both of them CAPPS selectees, because one of them cannot provide photo identification and seems unable to understand English, and he finds both of them suspicious. However, the only consequence is that Salem Alhazmi’s luggage is not loaded onto the plane until it is confirmed that he has boarded. Surveillance cameras monitor the security checkpoints at Dulles Airport. According to the 9/11 Commission’s review of security footage, Hani Hanjour passes through the Main Terminal’s west security screening checkpoint at 7:35 a.m. He proceeds through the metal detector without setting off the alarm, and his two carry-on bags set off no alarms when placed on the X-ray belt. The Alhazmis arrive at the same checkpoint a minute later. Salem Alhazmi successfully clears the metal detector, and is permitted through the checkpoint. Nawaf Alhazmi sets off the alarms for both the first and second metal detectors and is subsequently subjected to a personal screening with a metal detection hand wand before being passed. His shoulder bag is swiped by an explosive trace detector and returned without further inspection. [9/11 Commission, 1/27/2004; 9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 3; 9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 27-28 ] 911 Research.com Jim Hoffman Pentagon Attack No Jetliner Claims
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- are you familiar with Jim Marrs? and if you haven't already read this book and I do have a loner copy. I imagine the only thing that might get most of the folks in the liar movement to see the light would be for someone to wave more money at them than their current owners are paying them. But who wants liars coming over just for money? If the current owners then offered them another penny more they would switch again.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Is the shill arguing that there is no such thing as a controlled top down demolition? If he is that is yet another lie.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. And we all missed that "pancake" of the building falling down too since that isn't what happened.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Well, they could certainly apply for the position of aholes since they are both extremely well qualified.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Yeah, they looked familiar.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. only in that their names are spelled the same.
Yes.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Yes. No. That's about as much discussion as the subject deserves, LOL.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FL and the twoofer team are taking the day off. They are tired of coming up with silly questions that are easily disputed with some FACTS they could have researched all by themselves.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You: Yes. Post it then, with a credible source. By evidence, I mean something like proof that he checked in, or perhaps even bought a ticket for the flight.
I don't need to prove a negative. There is no credible evidence that proves Hanjour was ever on that flight.
By evidence, I mean something like proof that he checked in, or perhaps even bought a ticket for the flight. Sure. Here is the link to FLT77's official passenger list. You can click on it. "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Neither can you claim that not needing to prove a negative makes your claims true. The best you can say is "Nothing is known and more information is needed." Actually there is, and it is the result of hundreds of investigators and tens of thousands of man hours. To proceed to some alternative theory, you must first show why it is better than what already exists, point by point, rebutted item by rebutted item.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Did you hear about the guy that helped Hanjour with his fake ID? Abdel Rahman Omar Tawfiq Alfauru - Arlington, Virginia, Charged by FBI allegedly participating in a fake identification ring, documents associated with 9/11 hijacker Hani Hanjour. I am still attempting to find out what his jail sentence was. Alfauru helped most of the illegal aliens acquire fake IDs. edit - added hotlink to findlaw... piles of Islamic folks going to court.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
edit - added hotlink to findlaw... piles of Islamic folks going to court. Good job, it would be hard for me to have the patience.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So the person claiming to be Hanjour had a fake ID. Hmmm, so was the person getting the fake ID the REAL Hani Hanjour?
Now is there any proof that the person calling himself Hanjour even boarded that plane? I mean, did he checkin, or did he just have a ticket and missed his flight?
Well lookie here, the original news reports stated that Hanjour didn't show up on the flight manifest since he might not have had a ticket.... From The Washington Post But, I already told you in an earlier post: I don't care about the Washington Post article, often newspapers reports are based on misinterpretation.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Which is a good thing because, as far as I know, you can't prove a negative. One of the morons who used to post on LP made the claim years ago that Osama bin Forgotten had been killed in a cave with a daisy cutter bomb. I told him to prove he was dead since he made the claim. He told me to prove he wasn't and that idiot never could be convinced that neither I nor anyone else could prove a negative and that as the one who posited the claim it was incumbent upon him to prove it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I don't care about the Washington Post article, often newspapers reports are based on misinterpretation. And I don't care what some character called buckeroo has to say, I find the Washington Post more credible than you and your government handlers.
Jimmy Carter, big a liar as he is, is more credible than buck.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. ? Here is another pdf of Hanjour (based on the FBI)... eat your heart. By the way, Hanjour's helpers were one way or another indicted; many of whom admitted GUILTY.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Talk about a perfect yet obvious setup. If a real person had done what Hanjour is said to have done, he at least would have done one or both of two things; 1) Left a note or a video informing the world of what he did and why he did it. The "box cutters" and the "four color diagrams of a 757 instrument panel" are just a bit much. In reality, he would have either made it difficult for law enforcment to find out who he was, OR announced that he was in fact the hijacker, and would have explained why he and his pals did it. Is this document authentic, or was it provided by a writer?
You have a serious problem, FL. You deny hardcore evidence EVEN when there were indictments of and about Hanjour's accomplices. Many of those indictments went to federal court. And many of those same indictments, the defendants pleaded GUILTY. EDIT: HERE IS A LIST OF ACCOMPLICES: Faisal Michael Al Salmi Phoenix, Az. Accused of giving false statements to the FBI, claiming he did not know hijacker Hani Hanjour, however the FBI claims to have several pieces of evidence to the contrary; Also lied to FBI saying he had not spoken to Rayed Mohammed Abdullah, an associate of Hanjour. Both cases of lieing, claimed the FBI, impeded the investigation into the 9/11 hijackers. Al Salmi was convicted, served 34 days plus time served, and the Justice Department has requested he be deported. Semi Osman Seattle, WA. Alleged to have attended a Seattle mosque where a plan to build a terrorist training camp was hatched (the mosque no longer exists), the camp to be built in Oregon. Osman pleaded guilty to having a firearm with an obliterated serial number. He is reported to be a material witness and being held while he cooperates with authorities, reportedly targeting London, England cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri, an alleged Al Qaeda recruiter. James Ujaama Denver, CO. Attended the same mosque in Seattle where a plot was allegedly hateched to create a terrorist training camp in Oregon, is being held as a material witness targeting ondon, England cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri, an alleged Al Qaeda recruiter. Ghassan Dahduli Rchardson, TX. Palestinian leader of the Islamic Association for Palestine, which Israel says is a front for the terrorist group Hamas. He is alleged to have identified as an associate of Osama Bin Laden and another man, Wadih el Hage convicted of connections to the bombings of U.S. Embassies in Africa. Dahduli was arrested and deported to Jordon where he was released a few weeks later. Atallah Fuad Khoury Houston, TX Allegedly bragged to a rental car clerk that he had a new pilots license and to "watch the news". In November 2001, He plead guilty and was convicted of possessing a gun illegally and lieing on the gun dealer from about his citizenship status. Mohammed Jaweed Azmath Ft. Worth, TX Police arrested Azmath during a random drug search on 9/12/01, indicted in Jan, 2002 on charges of selling credit cards and identification cards to an unamed third conspirator. Has pleaded not guilty Ayub Ali Khan Ft. Worth, TX Police arrested Khan during a random drug search on 9/12/01, indicted in Jan, 2002 on charges of selling credit cards and identification cards to an unamed third conspirator. Plead not guilty Hussein al-Attas Norman, OK. One of three students arrested at U of Oklahoma, alleged associate of Zacarias Moussaoui who was arrested in August in Minnesota while seeking training to pilot commercial airliners, following the pattern of the 9/11 terrorists. The justice deparment claims al-Attas was a roomate of Moussaoui. Mohammad Yaseen Haider Norman, OK. President of the U of Oklahoma Pakistan Student Association was a neighbor of Moussaoui, charged with immigration violations. Mukkaram Ali Norman, OK. One of three students arrested at U of Oklahoma, alleged associate of Zacarias Moussaoui who was arrested in August in Minnesota while seeking training to pilot commercial airliners, following the pattern of the 9/11 terrorists. The justice deparment claims al-Attas was a roomate of Moussaoui. Adel F. Badri Warrensburg, MO. Arrested on bank fraud charges, allegedly cashing forged checks totaling $10,000, and was a student pilot, plea bargained to bank fraud and convicted, thought to be cooperating with federal authorities. Youssef Hmimssa Cedar Rapids, Iowa Arrested in September of 2001 on fraud and misuse of visa and other documents charges. Lived under an assumed name, Michael Saisa, indicted in Detroit when his immigration documents were found on terrorists suspects arested there. While investigations continue, Hmimssa is being held on the document charges. Zacarias Moussaoui Eagan, Minnesota Accused of conspiring with Osama Bin Laden and the 19 9/11 hijackers for the 9/11 attacks. Moussaoui is a Moroccan with French Citizenship. Moussaoui is alleged to have received funds from a financier central to the 9/11 plot and also trained at an Al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan. Moussaoui had attended but not completed flight training in May of 2001. Moussaoui was originally arrested on immigration charges a month before the 9/11 attacks when his flight instructor (at a different school) became suspicious of the odd training requests. Moussaoui's trail is due to begin at the end of September, 2002. Ollie Salem Kahlan Al-Marri West Peoria, Illinois AlMarri arrested in connection with telephone credit cards that belonged to Mustafa Ahmed al-Hisawi, a suspected cash distributor to 9/11 hijackers. Charged with a number of counts of credit card fraud. Nabil Al-Marabh Justice, Illinois Arrested September 18, 2001 on charges he was part of a financial cash flow and support ring for 9/11 terrorists Ahmed Alghamdi and Satam Al Sugami. Involved in the investigation of Marabh is the U.S. Customs Service and the FBI. Omar Shishani Detroit, Michigan Arrested in July of 2002, at the Detroit Metro Aiport, carrying $12 million of conterfeit cashier's checks. Shishani is a Chechnyan with Jordanian documents. He has plead not guilty to possession of counterfeit securities and smuggling charges. He remains in jail while investigations continue. Karim Koubriti Detroit, Michigan Arrested a few days after 9/11 for fraud and misuse of various immigration documents (See Youssef Hmimssa). Arresting officials were alarmed by airport drawings in his possession. Terrorism charges have since been dropped and he faces trial only on the immigration charges. Ahmed Hannan Detroit, Michigan Arrested a few days after 9/11 for fraud and misuse of various immigration documents (See Youssef Hmimssa). Arresting officials were alarmed by airport drawings in his possession. Terrorism charges have since been dropped and he faces trial only on the immigration charges. Vincente Pierre Roanoke, Virginia Convicted in December of 2001, on weapons charges and making false statements, after indictment a few days after 9/11/01. Alleged member of terrorist group al-Fuqra seeking to "purify Islam through violence". Traci Upshur Roanoke, Virgina Convicted in December of 2001, on weapons charges and making false statements, after indictment a few days after 9/11/01. Alleged member of terrorist group al-Fuqra seeking to "purify Islam through violence". Bilal Adullah Ben Benu Roanoke, Virginia Charged with illegally transporting ammunctionfor AK-47 automatic rifles. Alleged member of terrorist group al-Fuqra seeking to "purify Islam through violence". Mohammed Osman Idris Arlington, Virginia Idris and Mohammed El-Yacoubi were stopped by authorities while trying to fly to Jerusalm in December 2001, and found to be carrying a letter which indicated they were about to conduct suicide attacks in Israel. Idris is charged with lying to a Grand Jury and is being held pending investigation of ties to terrorist groups. Mohammed El-Yacoubi Fairfax, Virginia Mohammed El-Yacoubi and Mohammad Osman Idris were stopped by authorities while trying to fly to Jerusalm in December 2001, and found to be carrying a letter which indicated they were about to conduct suicide attacks in Israel. El-Yaciybu is being held pending investigation of ties to terrorist groups. Nabil Sarama Orlando, Florida Palestinian arrested a few days after 9/11, found near a pay phone used to make bomb threats. Charged with misuse or fraud involving immigration and identification documents. Sarama is well known in the immigration database, moving in and out of the country numerous times using Palestinian Authority, Israeli, or Jordanian passports. Abdel Rahman Omar Tawfiq Alfauru Arlington, Virginia Charged by FBI allegedly participating in a fake identification ring, documents associated with 9/11 hijacker Hani Hanjour. Agus Budima Arlington, Virginia Indoneisan National charged in November 2001 of helping Mohamad Bin Nasser Belfas -- a contact of Osam Bin Laden -- to falsely obtain a Virginia driver's license. Plead guilty to document fraud charges. Budiman is alleged to be a contact of 9/11 ring leader and hijacker Mohamed Atta. Budiman's visa shows he arrived from Germany in 2000. An associate, Belfas, is still at large. Budima has not been charged as a terrorist. Mohamed Abdi Alexandria, Virginia Arrested nearly two weeks after 9/11/01, Abdi pleaded guilty to forging a signature on a housing subsidy check, and sentenced to four months in prison. Authorities were led to Abdi by a map with his misspelled name and phone number on a Washington, D.C. map found in 9/11 hijacker Nawaf Alhazmi's car parked at Dulles Airport. Abdi has not been charged with terrorist offenses. Kenys Galicia Arlington, Virginia Sentened to a year in jail for assisting two hijackers in obtaining false Virginia documents. Authorities however, say he had no prior knowlege of the acts the hijackers were going to commit. Luis Martinez-Flores Arlington, Virginia Sentened to almost a year in jail for assisting two hijackers in obtaining false Virginia documents. Authorities however, say he had no prior knowlege of the acts the hijackers were going to commit. Herbet Villalobos Arlington, Virginia Sentened to almost a year in jail for assisting two hijackers in obtaining false Virginia documents. Authorities however, say he had no prior knowlege of the acts the hijackers were going to commit. Victor Lopez-Flores Arlington, Virginia Sentened to almost a year in jail for assisting two hijackers in obtaining false Virginia documents. Authorities however, say he had no prior knowlege of the acts the hijackers were going to commit. Hhalid al-Draibi Washington, D.C. Detained near Dulles International Airport on 9/11. Search revealed licensees from eight states, flight manuals for small aircraft. However, authorities did not press for terrorist charges. Draibi was sentenced to four months in jail and ordered to be deporated at release. Rasmi Subhi Salah al Shannaq Baltimore, Maryland Jordanian arrested for overstaying his visa, then indicted for obtaininga counterfeit and illegaly obtained visa from the embassy in Doha, Qatar. The nvestigation includes some 70 other people who used false identification from Qatar to enter the U.S. and possible U.S. Embassy at Qatar employees participation. Mohammad Pervez Jersey City, New Jersey Arrested a few days after 9/11/01, harged with lying to an FBI agent about checks he wrote and deposited. Pervez lived with two Ft. Worth, TX. suspects (see Mohammed Jaweed Azmath and Ayub Ali Khan), as Pervez was found living at their Jersey CIty address Mustafa Kilfat Elizabeth, New Jersey Among a group of alleged co-conspirators in the 9/11 attacks (1 of 3) taken into custody on September 13, 2001 -- This suspect was carrying one way ticket to Syria and large amounts of cash -- charged with credit card fraud, and carrying a false Greek passport. No terrorist charges have been filed. Ahmad Kilfat Elizabeth, New Jersey Among a group of alleged co-conspirators in the 9/11 attacks (2 of 3) taken into custody on September 13, 2001 -- This suspect was carrying one way ticket to Syria and large amounts of cash -- charged with credit card fraud, but has not been charged with terrorist activities. Mohammed Mahmous Al Raqqad Elizabeth, New Jersey Among a group of alleged co-conspirators in the 9/11 attacks 3 of 3) taken into custody on September 13, 2001 -- This suspect was carrying one way ticket to Syria and large amounts of cash. He has not been charged with any offense. Abdallah Higazy New York, NY Egyptian charged in January 2002 of making false statements to investigators -- denying knowlege of radio found in his hotel room, but later cleared when another hotel guest claimed the radio, Higazy was released. Khalid Sharaf- Alsubiani New York, NY Arrested in October in New York, paid cash for flight lessons which he did not complete (1999) and failed to appear in court on minor charges in North Carolina and Georgia. Also attended flight school in Texas. Shafal A. Mosed Lackawanna, NY Charged with providing material support to terrorists, could spend 15 years in federal prison. Arrested on 9/14/02. Suspected of training at the al-Farouq training camp in Afghanistan. Faysal H. Galab Lackawanna, NY Charged with providing material support to terrorists, could spend 15 years in federal prison. Arrested on 9/14/02. Suspected of training at the al-Farouq training camp in Afghanistan. Yahya Goba Lackawanna, NY Charged with providing material support to terrorists, could spend 15 years in federal prison. Arrested on 9/14/02. Suspected of training at the al-Farouq training camp in Afghanistan. Yasein A. Taher Lackawanna, NY Charged with providing material support to terrorists, could spend 15 years in federal prison. Arrested on 9/14/02. Suspected of training at the al-Farouq training camp in Afghanistan. Sahim A. Alwan Lackawanna, NY Charged with providing material support to terrorists, could spend 15 years in federal prison. Arrested on 9/14/02. Suspected of training at the al-Farouq training camp in Afghanistan. Richard Reid Boston, Massachusetts a.k.a. Abdel Rahim, arrested in December 2001 when he tried to set his shoes on fire on an aircraft between Paris to Miami, plane diverted to Logan Airport and Reid turned over to authorities. Passengers responded to stewardess who requested help in subduing Reid. Subsequently Reid was indicted on nine counts of various charges from explosives to specific terrorist activites including attempted destruction of a mass transportation vehicle, although a later judge ruled, amazingly, that an airliner is not a vehicle of mass transportation. There is also an alleged contact between Reid and Zacarias Moussaoui (also listed in this table). Mohamed Hussein Dorchester, Massachusetts The Hussein` brothers operated the Barakaat North America Inc. offices, Dorchester Massachusetts, charged with operating an unlicensed Dubai based money transfer service with other offices in Seattle, WA; Minneapolis,, MN. and Columbus, Ohio. Federal authorities claim part of the fee charged for wire transfers was diverted to use by Osama Bin Laden and the Al Qaeda network. Liban Hussein Dorchester, Massachusetts The Hussein brothers operated the Barakaat North America Inc. offices, Dorchester Massachusetts, charged with operating an unlicensed Dubai based money transfer service with other offices in Seattle, WA; Minneapolis,, MN. and Columbus, Ohio. Federal authorities claim part of the fee charged for wire transfers was diverted to use by Osama Bin Laden and the Al Qaeda network. "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
As far as the flight manifest, where is it? The Washington Post apparently was given a different manifest which didn't list Hanjour. Which one was the real one? I've seen the pictures of Hanjour, and I've seen the airport images of someone who is alleged to be him. To me, they definitely look like two different people. You'll notice the hairlines are different, and the person in the bottom has a wider girth. In fact, Hanjour's license photo doesn't look much like his passport photo; Are these actually THREE DIFFERENT PEOPLE maybe?
What hardcore evidence? Do you have an official record of his fingerprints? Do his official fingerprints match what he's allegedly handled? Is there any video of him boarding the aircraft? Has his DNA been located at the crash site, and if so, what lab has determined that? Hell, it looks like there are THREE different Hani Hanjours, judging from the images on the net presented as true images of him.
I provided the AA77 manifest. You do the research, pal. You are just squeaking out of your own corner.... because you can't research your own BS.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You provided an ALLEGED manifest, which is different than the one reviewed by the Washington Post. Has the Post ever issued a retraction of their story?
Nope... FACTUAL and from American Airlines. As I said, I don't care what WP says. Your reference material is based on irresponsible reporting.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Does it really matter what buck has produced or not produced? Didn't ALL of Hanjours/Hanjoors flight instructors say he was a piss-poor pilot and that he could barely fly a Cessna? That being the case who but a government shill or a brain-dead moron would claim that he could do stunts with a commercial airliner that actual stunt pilots would be hard pressed to do in stunt planes?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. What makes you think it came from American Airlines? Some guy's word on the Internet?
Of course Hanjour couldn't have flown a 757 from Ohio to Washington, then flown it 20 feet off the ground at 530 mph after pulling a few precision turns to descend to the right flight path. Thing is, there are different stories as to what angle the plane descended from, so it's still unclear if there were more than one aircraft involved in the attack, one perhaps a real airliner, and the other a high speed drone carrying some sort of missile. But yes, you're right, Hanjour didn't have the ability to fly any sort of jet, never mind a Boeing 757.
I suspect his owners told him that.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Per Rule #19 of "25 Rules of Disinformation." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EDIT: HERE IS A LIST OF ACCOMPLICES: HAHAHAHAHA. Looks like our Tw00fers will be wanting new trials for the dozen Arabs pleading guilty and going to prison to aiding and abetting the hijackers. TOO MUCH
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So you're trying to say we need to believe everything the TV says, or what YOU say, otherwise we're "spreading disinfo", right?
Looks like our Tw00fers will be wanting new trials for the dozen Arabs pleading guilty and going to prison to aiding and abetting the hijackers. TOO MUCH So what of the "hijackers" who are still alive and well? Will you be urging them to be brought to justice, since they somehow survived the air crashes?
That's all you do here is wave your arms and repeat the same crap over and over again. I WAS considering whatever "evidence" there is out there, and so far it doesn't look like the Hani Hanjour in the color photo is the same person as the "Hani Hanjour" at Dulles International Airport. There IS no record of him actually boarding the plane is there. And the Washington Post obviously DID see a different manifest than what is out there on the Internet, since Hanjour's name wasn't on it.
Unfortunately this is just another side show obfuscation argument. It is well known that if US INS was operating strictly by the rules in 2001, none of the Arab hijackers would have ever made it into the country. Ditto for the 2001 Israeli "moving company employees," "zoomcopter sales people," and "art students" who were operating undercover for the Mossad trying to figure out ways to manipulate and penetrate the US system. Because of routinely subpar work by the INS, there were many ways for many different agencies and ad hoc conspiracies to trick the system including: Having a "John Smith" name which many other people also have, being able to mis appropriate someone else's identity, being able to manufacture a false identity, having confusion about translation from Arabic to English for example "Nur" or "Noor" equaling the same Arabic name but beng 2 separate names or people in the US computers, etc. In other words you have no proof that anybody actually did survive who was the same person positively identified as the hijacker. The Saudi government, after first denying it had some of the hijackers as its citizens, eventually made a public admission that the identities of the 911 hijcakers were correct, and the Saudi families had been notified. The House of Saud can admit facts however unflattering better than you can.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My postings - and buck's even more so - have specific facts backed by hundreds of pages of specific documentation. Yours have allegations and attempts to pick apart minutiae of the postings either of us cites, which eventually can be summarized as "I don't want to believe that, this is how it should have or did happen because that's what appeals to me."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are either woefully misinformed, or quite MISINFORMING... Revealed: the men with stolen identities [UK Telegraph] Your "facts" many times are NOT facts, simply allegations, along with a highly flawed account of why and how the attacks the took place, oftentimes based upon improbabilities and impossible events.. Hanjour could not fly a simple propeller powered airplane. He never flew a jet aircraft. Yet you want people to believe he defeated the laws of aerodynamics by flying a Boeing 757 jumbo feet 20 feet off the ground at 530 mph. You must think people are pretty stupid.
It's quite a telling indicator of desparation to keep selectively quoting the same people who explicitly say he was more than qualified to be a hijacker not interested in surviving. I understand that's all you have left. And he didn't have to. He flew simulators which according to the FAA are valid substitutes and allow you to become fully prepared for a type certification check ride. You don't know jack $hit about the laws of aerodynamics and you never have demonstrated knowledge of even one detail. It has been me who introduced the concept of ground effect on these threads, and you have misinterpreted that concept into oblivion without understanding it in the least. I have repeately told you it is possible to figure out what a passenger aircraft can and can't do by using a simulator to test maneuvers. The response from you has been (((((crickets)))). Nothing. You're full of it and fighting a rear guard retreat as you get debunked on one item "Hanjour was never licensed ever" to another "Hanjour's 1/2 G turn 46 fps descent was a fighter pilot maneuver." Pathetic and attempting to save face after demonstrating you know nothing, and can not support any explanation that's coherent.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're doing a good job, FL. Fighting lies with truth. A noble cause.
Wrong. He never flew a jet aircraft of any type, and did NOT do well on the 737 simulator he was paying to play with. He often skipped class, didn't do his homework, and totally sucked in terms of basic flight skills. He could no more fly a Boeing 757 than the average person off the street could with no experience at all.
Hanjour could not fly a simple propeller powered airplane. The rest is YOUR statement, not mine, so don't try to quote what YOUR saying and imply it's me saying it. Hanjour got a license for a single engine airplane and a multi engine airplane. Yet he could barely understand or speak English, where in order to obtain a FAA pilot's license, a person is required to speak and understand English. Right there is a huge red flag indicating there was some fraud involved in the issuance of his license. Secondly, several of his instructors contacted the FAA to report he had NO skills required of a person with that type of license, and thought the license was fraudulent. It's been proven to you 20 times these past several weeks, with sourced quotes from the various instructors. Yet you act as if none of that is true, and that you're the virtuous one here fighting "lies", where it is YOUR "facts" which are either outright lies or flagrant misrepresentations, such as cherry picking a quote from a person who didn't even know what happened at the Pentagon. You choose to cherry pick statements by the same people who explicitly said Hanjour was completely capable of flying an aircraft from Point A to Point B then crashing the plane into Point B. There were not "people" who said anything of the sort. The one person whose quote you cherry picked didn't even know that Hanjour didn't "crash" the plane, he flew it from Ohio to Washington allegedly, performed several high speed precision turns while descending, leveled off at treetop level at 400 mph, then preceeded to the Pentagon wall, a mile away, while accelerating to 530 mph, apparently gifted with superhuman abilitiy in order to counteract the ever increasing lift caused by ground effect. Then instead of the plane climbing due to the increased lift caused by increased speed and increased ground effect, it descended to 20 feet off the ground and flew into the 71 foot tall Pentagon wall at its ground floor, miraculously without scraping the Pentagon lawn up one bit. Yeah right, ANYONE can do that, even one who couldn't fly a single plane in a circle around an airport. It's quite a telling indicator of desparation to keep selectively quoting the same people who explicitly say he was more than qualified to be a hijacker not interested in surviving. I understand that's all you have left. All you have left is to ignore the facts, act as if they don't exist, and make up some of your own as you go.
You, the widely known shill and forum bloviator, knows more than an aeronautical engineer and airline pilot according to you, yet you think ground effect is what makes airplanes fly, or at least that's the impression you give. Here's that article again, since you obviously ignored it the last 10 times I posted it to you... From The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training Nila Sagadevan is an aeronautical engineer and a qualified pilot of heavy aircraft. [Mindfully.org note: Specifications for Boeing 757 and Cessna 172 are from Wikipedia. See other drawing below] There are some who maintain that the mythical 9/11 hijackers, although proven to be too incompetent to fly a little Cessna 172, had acquired the impressive skills that enabled them to fly airliners by training in flight simulators. What follows is an attempt to bury this myth once and for all, because I've heard this ludicrous explanation bandied about, at nauseam, on the Internet and the TV networks" "invariably by people who know nothing substantive about flight simulators, flying, or even airplanes. A common misconception non-pilots have about simulators is how "easy" it is to operate them. They are indeed relatively easy to operate if the objective is to make a few lazy turns and frolic about in the "open sky". But if the intent is to execute any kind of a maneuver with even the least bit of precision, the task immediately becomes quite daunting. And if the aim is to navigate to a specific geographic location hundreds of miles away while flying at over 500 MPH, 30,000 feet above the ground the challenges become virtually impossible for an untrained pilot. And this, precisely, is what the four hijacker pilots who could not fly a Cessna around an airport are alleged to have accomplished in multi-ton, high-speed commercial jets on 9/11. For a person not conversant with the practical complexities of pilotage, a modern flight simulator could present a terribly confusing and disorienting experience. These complex training devices are not even remotely similar to the video games one sees in amusement arcades, or even the software versions available for home computers. In order to operate a modern flight simulator with any level of skill, one has to not only be a decent pilot to begin with, but also a skilled instrument-rated one to boot and be thoroughly familiar with the actual aircraft type the simulator represents, since the cockpit layouts vary between aircraft. The only flight domains where an arcade / PC-type game would even begin to approach the degree of visual realism of a modern professional flight simulator would be during the take-off and landing phases. During these phases, of course, one clearly sees the bright runway lights stretched out ahead, and even peripherally sees images of buildings, etc. moving past. Take-offs "even landings, to a certain degree" are relatively "easy" because the pilot has visual reference cues that exist "outside" the cockpit. But once you've rotated, climbed out, and reached cruising altitude in a simulator (or real airplane), and find yourself en route to some distant destination (using sophisticated electronic navigation techniques), the situation changes drastically: the pilot loses virtually all external visual reference cues. She / he is left entirely at the mercy of an array of complex flight and navigation instruments to provide situational cues (altitude, heading, speed, attitude, etc.) In the case of a Boeing 757 or 767, the pilot would be faced with an EFIS (Electronic Flight Instrumentation System) panel comprised of six large multi-mode LCDs interspersed with clusters of assorted "hard" instruments. These displays process the raw aircraft system and flight data into an integrated picture of the aircraft situation, position and progress, not only in horizontal and vertical dimensions, but also with regard to time and speed as well. When flying "blind", i.e., with no ground reference cues, it takes a highly skilled pilot to interpret, and then apply, this data intelligently. If one cannot translate this information quickly, precisely and accurately (and it takes an instrument-rated pilot to do so), one would have ZERO SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. I.e., the pilot wouldn't have a clue where she / he was in relation to the earth. Flight under such conditions is referred to as "IFR", or Instrument Flight Rules. And IFR Rule #1: Never take your eyes off your instruments, because that's all you have! The corollary to Rule #1: If you can't read the instruments in a quick, smooth, disciplined, scan, you are as good as dead. Accident records from around the world are replete with reports of any number of good pilots "i.e., professional instrument-rated pilots " who ‘bought the farm' because they screwed up while flying in IFR conditions. Let me place this in the context of the 9/11 hijacker-pilots. These men were repeatedly deemed incompetent to solo a simple “Cessna-172”, an elementary exercise that involves flying this little trainer once around the patch on a sunny day. A student's first solo flight involves a simple circuit: take-off, followed by four gentle left turns ending with a landing back on the runway. This is as basic as flying can possibly get. Not one of the hijackers was deemed fit to perform this most elementary exercise by himself, in fact, here is what their flight instructors had to say about the aptitude of these budding aviators: Now let's take a look at American Airlines Flight 77. Passenger / hijacker Hani Hanjour rises from his seat midway through the flight, viciously fights his way into the cockpit with his cohorts, overpowers Captain Charles F. Burlingame and First Officer David Charlebois, and somehow manages to toss them out of the cockpit (for starters, very difficult to achieve in a cramped environment without inadvertently impacting the yoke and thereby disengaging the autopilot). One would correctly presume that this would present considerable difficulties to a little guy with a “box cutter". Burlingame was a tough, burly, ex-Vietnam F4 fighter jock, who had flown over 100 combat missions. Every pilot who knows him says that rather than politely hand over the controls, Burlingame would have instantly rolled the plane on its back so that Hanjour would have broken his neck when he hit the floor. But let's ignore this almost natural reaction expected of a fighter pilot and proceed with this charade. Nonetheless, imagine that Hanjour overpowers the flight deck crew, removes them from the cockpit and takes his position in the captain's seat. Although weather reports state this was not the case, let's say Hanjour was lucky enough to experience a perfect CAVU day (Ceiling And Visibility Unlimited). If Hanjour looked straight ahead through the windshield, or off to his left at the ground, at best he would see, 35,000 feet - - 7 miles - - below him, a murky brownish-gray-green landscape, virtually devoid of surface detail, while the aircraft he was now piloting was moving along, almost imperceptibly and in eerie silence, at around 500 MPH (about 750 feet every second). In a real-world scenario (and given the reported weather conditions that day), he would likely have seen clouds below him completely obscuring the ground he was traversing. With this kind of "situational non-awareness", Hanjour might as well have been flying over Argentina, Russia, or Japan he wouldn't have had a clue as to where, precisely, he was. After a few seconds (at 750 feet per second), Hanjour would figure out there's little point in looking outside - there is nothing there to give him any real visual cues. For a man who had previously wrestled with little Cessnas, following freeways and railroad tracks (and always in the comforting presence of an instructor), this would have been a strange, eerily unsettling environment indeed. Seeing nothing outside, Mr. Hanjour would be forced to divert his attention to his instrument panel, where he would be faced with a bewildering array of instruments. He would then have to very quickly interpret his heading, ground track, altitude, and airspeed information on the displays before he could even figure out where in the world he was, much less where the Pentagon was located in relation to his position! After all, before he can crash into a target, he has to first find the target. It is very difficult to explain this scenario, of an utter lack of ground reference, to non-pilots; but let it suffice to say that for these incompetent hijacker non-pilots to even consider grappling with such a daunting task would have been utterly overwhelming. They wouldn't have known where to begin. But, for the sake of discussion let's stretch things beyond all plausibility and say that Hanjour - whose flight instructor claimed "couldn't fly at all" - somehow managed to figure out their exact position on the American landscape in relation to their intended target as they traversed the earth at a speed five times faster than they had ever flown by themselves before. Once he had determined exactly where he was, he would need to figure out where the Pentagon was located in relation to his rapidly changing position. He would then need to plot a course to his target (one he cannot see with his eyes - remember, our ace is flying solely on instruments). In order to perform this bit of electronic navigation, he would have to be very familiar with IFR procedures. None of these chaps even knew what a navigational chart looked like, much less how to plug information into flight management computers (FMC) and engage LNAV (lateral navigation automated mode). If one is to believe the official story, all of this was supposedly accomplished by raw student pilots, while flying blind at 500 MPH, (about 750 feet every second) over 30,000 feet high and above the unfamiliar ground, (and practically invisible) terrain, using complex methodologies and employing sophisticated instruments. To get around this little problem, the official storyline suggests these men manually flew their aircraft to their respective targets (NB: This still wouldn't relieve them of the burden of navigation). But let's assume Hanjour disengaged the autopilot and auto-throttle and hand-flew the aircraft to its intended - and invisible - target on instruments alone until such time as he could get a visual fix. This would have necessitated him to fly back across West Virginia and Virginia to Washington DC. - - This portion of the Flight 77's flight path cannot be corroborated by any radar evidence that exists, because the aircraft is said to have suddenly disappeared from radar screens over Ohio, but let's not mull over that little point. - - According to FAA radar controllers, "Flight 77" then suddenly pops up over Washington DC and executes an incredibly precise diving turn at a rate of 360 degrees per minute while descending at 3,500 feet per minute, at the end of which "Hanjour" allegedly levels out at ground level. Oh, I almost forgot: He also had the presence of mind to turn off the transponder in the middle of this incredibly difficult maneuver, - - one of his instructors later commented the hapless fellow couldn't have spelt the word if his life depended on it. - - The maneuver was in fact so precisely executed that the air traffic controllers at Dulles refused to believe the blip on their screen was a commercial airliner. Danielle O'Brian, one of the air traffic controllers at Dulles who reported seeing the aircraft at 9:25 said, "The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane." And then, all of a sudden we have magic. Voila! Hanjour finds the Pentagon sitting squarely in his sights right before him. But even that wasn't good enough for this fanatic Muslim kamikaze pilot. You see, he found that his "missile" was heading towards one of the most densely populated wings of the Pentagon - and one occupied by top military brass, including the Secretary of Defense, Rumsfeld. Presumably in order to save these men's lives, he then executes a sweeping 270-degree turn and approaches the building from the opposite direction and aligns himself with the only wing of the Pentagon that was virtually uninhabited due to extensive renovations that were underway - -, there were some 120 civilians construction workers in that wing who were killed; their work included blast-proofing the outside wall of that wing. - - I shan't get into the aerodynamic impossibility of flying a large commercial jetliner 20 feet above the ground at over 400 MPH. A discussion on ground effect energy, tip vortex compression, downwash sheet reaction, wake turbulence, and jetblast effects are beyond the scope of this article (the 100,000-lb jetblast alone would have blown whole semi-trucks off the roads.) Let it suffice to say that it is physically impossible to fly a 200,000 pounds airliner 20 feet above the ground at 400 MPH. The author, a pilot and aeronautical engineer, challenges any pilot in the world to do so in any large high-speed aircraft that has a relatively low wing-loading (such as a commercial jets), i.e., to fly the craft at 400 MPH, 20 feet above ground in a flat trajectory over a distance of one mile. Why the stipulation of 20 feet and a mile? There were several street light poles located up to a mile away from the Pentagon that were snapped-off by the incoming aircraft; this suggests a low, flat trajectory during the final pre-impact approach phase. Further, it is known that the craft impacted the Pentagon's ground floor. For purposes of reference: If a 757 were placed on the ground on its engine nacelles (I.e., gear retracted as in flight profile), its nose would be almost 20 above the ground! Ergo, for the aircraft to impact the ground floor of the Pentagon, Hanjour would have needed to have flown in with the engines buried 10-feet deep in the Pentagon lawn. Some pilot. At any rate, why is such ultra-low-level flight aerodynamically impossible? Because the reactive force of the hugely powerful downwash sheet, coupled with the compressibility effects of the tip vortices, simply will not allow the aircraft to get any lower to the ground than approximately one half the distance of its wingspan - until speed is drastically reduced, which, of course, is what happens during normal landings. In other words, if this were a Boeing 757 as reported, the plane could not have been flown below about 60 feet above ground at 400 MPH. (Such a maneuver is entirely within the performance envelope of aircraft with high wing-loadings, such as ground-attack fighters, the B1-B bomber, and Cruise missiles - and the Global Hawk.) The very same navigational challenges mentioned above would have faced the pilots who flew the two 767s into the Twin Towers, in that they, too, would have had to have first found their targets. Again, these chaps, too, miraculously found themselves spot on course. And again, their "final approach" maneuvers at over 500 MPH are simply far too incredible to have been executed by pilots who could not solo basic training aircraft. Conclusion In reality, a clueless non-pilot would encounter almost insurmountable difficulties in attempting to navigate and fly a 200,000 pounds airliner into a building located on the ground, 7 miles below and hundreds of miles away and out of sight, and in an unknown direction, while flying at over 500 MPH - and all this under extremely stressful circumstances. About the Author: Nila Sagadevan was born in Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) and educated in Britain. A former commercial pilot, he holds a degree in aeronautical engineering from the University of Edinburgh and works as a communications consultant. He lives with his wife and son in Laguna Hills, CA. and may be reached at nila@omnicomltd.com source: http://www.venusproject.com/ethics_in_action/911_Impossible_Flying_757.html 13jun2006 scaled drawing from Boeing website simplified by Mindfully.org 14jun2006 STRONGLY SUGGESTED ! I've posted about ground effect in regards to Flight 77 for YEARS, and understood it for at least as long as that. You show up on this forum and think you can come here and make up your own history of what's been said here, and what hasn't. My posting history speaks for itself, as does yours. You have been proven wrong, over and over and over, yet DO NOT EVER concede you have been wrong, you simply act as if none of it ever happened and start the entire cycle, yet again. I have repeately told you You have repeatedly LIED to me and everyone here on this forum, as well as lying ABOUT me and what I have or have not said. For example: The response from you has been (((((crickets)))). I think anyone here reading these threads instantly knows that to be a lie. I have responded to your BS MANY MANY TIMES, yet you continue to pretend there was no response. A QUALIFIED Airline Transport Pilot might be able to pick up some time on a simulator for an aircraft similar to what he is already qualified to fly, but some inept dufus who can't fly a Cessna isn't going to become an ace pilot on a 757 by attending a flight school which had a 737 simulator, which is NOT similar to a 757 simulator, all the while skipping class, not doing his homework, and not being able to understand his instructors while there. Oh, and the fact he was totally incompetent as a pilot didn't help either. "Hanjour was never licensed ever" Another lie, and you know it. I questioned the AUTHENTICITY of any said license, and had never seen any proof that he even did have one, so I asked you to post a link. After several days of hemming and hawing, you finally did. I might have said once, "ok so it must not exist then" after you weren't able to find any evidence that he DID have those certifications. Big deal, I admitted I was wrong, and that he DID have one, although he STILL wasn't qualified to have it according to his instructors. "Hanjour's 1/2 G turn 46 fps descent was a fighter pilot maneuver." Another lie. I NEVER stated that the g force of the turn had anything to do with a "fighter jet manuever", those are YOUR words, not mine, and you know that as well. The fact the aircraft was travelling somewhere around 400 mph while performing a precision turn and descending at the same time is what caught the eye of the air traffic controllers, and THEY are the ones that likened the manuever to a military aircraft. Stop twisting and misrepresenting everything, don't you get tired of spinning like a top, day in, day out? Pathetic and attempting to save face after demonstrating you know nothing, and can not support any explanation that's coherent. It's obvious that you will regurgitate your "talking points" no matter how pathetic you look, no matter how far off base they are, no matter what facts are presented. You aren't here to learn anything, nor are you here to educate. You are here to disrupt.
A noble cause. Thanks, I just hope it's done some good and opened a few minds.
BRAVO! This notion cuts right to the end game for understanding root cause of failure for 9/11. And still, the US government does not have the determination to operate according to law (already written, on-the-books USC) ... instead, it basks in the sunlight of policy/politics placing the American People in harms way. All nineteen of the terrorists were in the USA illegally for one violation or another prior to 911 and no pursuit by any agency other than some occasional monitoring by the FBI. And to think these useless TWOOFER_FAERIE™ threads review any revealing data concerning government involvement? No. They create a useless side-track of the actual issues confronting the nation.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
From The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training NILA SAGADEVAN / Earth's Common Sense Think Tank 13jun2006 As ususal you lie without batting an eye. I have repeatedly told you that the foreigner's email does not work because I got a bounce back. Get me a real expert who is American and has current valid aviation status. Not a fly by night hack who can't stick around to answer legitimate questions and challenges. You keep flogging these k00ksite POS's whose blatherings get passed around long after their perps disappear in their hit and runs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #19 at topic: "First Signs of Civil War in the US? Sheriff Tony DeMeo Threatens Force Against Federal Agents from Bureau of Land Mgmt" Name cross-reference, in case the Wadih character is a fake.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
This is an outstanding video and cuts to the chase for understanding the root cause of failure of and about 911. FINALLY, we are getting back to reality instead of useless, meaningless speculation. Grey -- you found the video, why not create a new thread? Invite the entire forum for response. Lets get off these old tired TWOOFER_FAERIE™ BSer sessions....
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
not quite
Grey -- you found the video, why not create a new thread? Invite the entire forum for response. Lets get off these old tired TWOOFER_FAERIE™ BSer sessions.... I posted that video in another thread and linked the post here because I suspect the name "Wadih el Hage" is a concocted play on words, possibly to associate subconsiously with villainy the name of someone who was a thorn in the side of corrupt power here. I wouldn't call the video reality but the official storyline in a nutshell, which I of course study in order to dig deeper. Hence, the Wadih/Wadi Hage/"Haji"/Hajj - Muslim pilgrimage suspected artifice. I am a No Planes researcher/investigator. Ergo, I don't believe there were any Arab hijackers, just an invented backdrop of fictional characters and duped players who were deceptively used by the PNAC types for selling their premise of "a new Pearl Harbor" to throw us into perpetual wars for perpetual profit and to usher in the despotic PATRIOT Act abomination. You posted the public domain video here and can start a new thread with it if you want to but I will most probably crosslink this post in rebuttal and another that I posted quite some time ago debunking the alleged Military "stand down" order, (CJCSI) 3610.01A, which expressly states words to the effect of "except in an emergency" -- which of course 9/11 was. Note: done with editing.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I was going back through the forum to find something and went much farther back than I had to, so I read some interesting old threads and found this video, "A Tribute To Patriots- Fight The New World Order", in the topic I Can't Get It Out Of My Head- A Tribute To Patriots. @ 6:25, there's a truther.org poster-graphic titled "9/11 Truth for Dummies". Thought you might like to see the pic and also might want to research that site for your project.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~
#2. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
If these points have blatant video evidence or irrefutable eye witness testimony from indisputable sources it would be good.
#3. To: christine (#2)
#4. To: Amandil, Eric Stratton (#1)
#5. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~
#6. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
"how can that all be if the Fairy Tale is actually true?"
#7. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
(Edited)
#8. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
(Edited)
#9. To: GreyLmist, all, *9-11* (#7)
.
#10. To: Eric Stratton, GreyLmist, FormerLurker, wudidiz, abraxas, christine, HOUNDDAWG, Kamala, RickyJ, IRTorqued, Critter, CadetD, bluegrass, Jethro Tull, Deacon Benjamin, all (#0)
If two datums are mutually exclusive the first thing you can know is that one, or both are false.
#11. To: Original_Intent (#10)
The key is to not get too technical right off the bat otherwise you'll lose them. You have to first present to them a series of simple contradictions that are easy to see and...
#12. To: Original_Intent (#10)
(Edited)
this is where the 911 for dummies list comes in handy.
It has to be some of the stuff that is pretty straight forward and easily verifiable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtJWBcWAeAw#t=6m45
#13. To: buckeroo (#6)
(Edited)
Oh no.... not another TWOOFER_FAERIE™ thread!
(1) A 1/2 G turn is supposed to be evidence of "fighter pilot skills" when student pilots must do 2G turns to get licensed and fighter pilots regularly pull 8+ G's,
Nyuk, nyuk.
(2) Descending at 46.667 feet per second or 31.818 miles per hour is supposed to be evidence of "fighter pilot skills," when you descend faster than that on a roller coaster,
(3) How an aircraft controller trying to track a plane with its transponder off, and which completely disappears from the radar screen half way through its descending turn, is able to accurately describe the completed turn as a "precision turn" when the ATC doesn't even see the last half of the turn
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#14. To: Eric Stratton (#12)
#15. To: AGAviator, christine (#13)
#16. To: wudidiz (#11)
The key is to not get too technical right off the bat otherwise you'll lose them. You have to first present to them a series of simple contradictions that are easy to see and...
#17. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle (#15)
(Edited)
Well Curly - as per your usual you are applying "Disinformation For Dummies". Too bad every one here has a higher I.Q. than you.
(1) A 1/2 G turn is supposed to be evidence of "fighter pilot skills" when student pilots must do 2G turns to get licensed and fighter pilots regularly pull 8+ G's,
Nyuk, nyuk.
(2) Descending at 46.667 feet per second or 31.818 miles per hour is supposed to be evidence of "fighter pilot skills," when you descend faster than that on a roller coaster,
(3) How an aircraft controller trying to track a plane with its transponder off, and which completely disappears from the radar screen half way through its descending turn, is able to accurately describe the completed turn as a "precision turn" when the ATC doesn't even see the last half of the turn
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#18. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, turtle, ALL (#17)
How an aircraft controller trying to track a plane with its transponder off, and which completely disappears from the radar screen half way through its descending turn, is able to accurately describe the completed turn as a "precision turn" when the ATC doesn't even see the last half of the turn
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#19. To: AGAviator, ALL (#17)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#20. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#18)
Thing is, the aircraft disappeared off radar near the Ohio border. That shouldn't be possible, since the aircraft should still be visible even without the transponder..
#21. To: All (#20)
#22. To: Amandil (#1)
#23. To: FormerLurker (#18)
The transponder simply gives off the plane's identification, speed, and altitude. The radar still sees the aircraft as a blip however.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#24. To: christine (#2)
Depending on one's already held opinion, he/she will argue what is irrefutable and indisputable to the point of absurdity.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#25. To: AGAviator (#17)
(3) How an aircraft controller trying to track a plane with its transponder off, and which completely disappears from the radar screen half way through its descending turn, is able to accurately describe the completed turn as a "precision turn" when the ATC doesn't even see the last half of the turn
#26. To: AGAviator (#13)
Arguing with them is like playing "Whack A Mole."
8:48 a.m. First news reports that American Airlines Flight 11 has crashed into One World Trade Center (north tower).
#27. To: Original_Intent (#10)
#28. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~
#29. To: AGAviator (#17)
(Edited)
Still want to know why
(1) A 1/2 G turn is supposed to be evidence of "fighter pilot skills" when student pilots must do 2G turns to get licensed and fighter pilots regularly pull 8+ G's,
(2) Descending at 46.667 feet per second or 31.818 miles per hour is supposed to be evidence of "fighter pilot skills," when you descend faster than that on a roller coaster,
#30. To: Original_Intent, All (#10)
#31. To: GreyLmist (#12)
#32. To: Original_Intent (#15)
#33. To: Amandil (#28)
#34. To: AGAviator, ALL (#23)
(Edited)
A much fainter blip, hard to distinguish between clutter and the clear strong signals of aircraft with transponders working.
140. John Thomas interview (Sept. 24, 2003).According to the FAA-produced timeline, at 9:09 Indianapolis Center “notified Great Lakes Regional Operations Center a possible aircraft accident of AMERICAN 77 due to the simultaneous loss of radio communications and radar identification.”FAA report,“Summary of AirTraffic Hijack Events September 11, 2001,” Sept. 17, 2001.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#35. To: AGAviator, ALL (#23)
(Edited)
The taping began before noon on Sept. 11 at the New York Air Route Traffic Control Center, in Ronkonkoma, on Long Island, but it was later destroyed by an F.A.A. quality-assurance manager, who crushed the cassette in his hand, cut the tape into little pieces and dropped them in different trash cans around the building, according to a report made public today by the inspector general of the Transportation Department. [New York Times 5/6/04]
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#36. To: Amandil, Eric Stratton (#28)
~ you can also now use this thread here to demonstrate how easily the dis-info people can fill up an otherwise well-begun thread with endless BS, data irrellevent to your initial aim and argumentative as well ~
#37. To: Original_Intent, All (#10)
#38. To: Original_Intent (#36)
#39. To: GreyLmist, buckeroo (#25)
(Edited)
(3) How an aircraft controller trying to track a plane with its transponder off, and which completely disappears from the radar screen half way through its descending turn, is able to accurately describe the completed turn as a "precision turn" when the ATC doesn't even see the last half of the turn
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#40. To: Original_Intent (#36)
And not to forget of those 3 buildings that fell only 2 were hit by airplanes.
#41. To: Eric Stratton (#38)
Any reason been floated as to why that was?
#42. To: buckeroo (#41)
#43. To: buckeroo (#41)
#44. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#34)
Would 19 "ragheads" who attacked us because "they hated our freedoms" have known that?
Contrary to what [President George W.] Bush says and claims -- that we hate freedom -- let him tell us then, "Why did we not attack Sweden?"
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#45. To: Eric Stratton (#43)
(Edited)
#46. To: Eric Stratton (#43)
Is it possible?
#47. To: AGAviator (#44)
#48. To: buckeroo (#45)
about 4 minutes into the video. It collapsed not because of "demolitions"; it collapsed because of loss of structural integrity near the aircraft impact.
#49. To: buckeroo (#46)
#50. To: buckeroo (#45)
#51. To: Eric Stratton (#49)
What's amazing is that you trust our government
#52. To: buckeroo (#51)
#53. To: Eric Stratton (#50)
Dude, you're an idiot.
#54. To: buckeroo (#53)
#55. To: Eric Stratton (#52)
I enjoy FACTS that you agree with, though.
#56. To: All (#44)
#57. To: buckeroo (#55)
#58. To: buckeroo (#53)
Should I ask Christine to intercede as FL did back on the demolition theory thread?
#59. To: Eric Stratton (#57)
#60. To: AGAviator (#39)
(Edited)
You: (3) How an aircraft controller trying to track a plane with its transponder off, and which completely disappears from the radar screen half way through its descending turn, is able to accurately describe the completed turn as a "precision turn" when the ATC doesn't even see the last half of the turn
#61. To: buckeroo (#59)
#62. To: christine (#61)
#63. To: Eric Stratton (#61)
That's what this thread is all about, buying BS.
2) The moon is made of GREEN CHEESE!
3) The world is FLAT!
4) Jesus SAVES!
5) The government's only mission is to create PANDEMONIUM!
6) The government is so clever, they MASTER-MINDED 9/11!
7) No one landed on the moon, it was a HOAX!
8) Crop circles are based on alien intelligence!
9) Bat-Boy is ALIVE!
10) Bob Dole still professes his DAILY use of VIAGRA!
#64. To: buckeroo, Eric Stratton, christine (#62)
#65. To: buckeroo (#53)
Should I ask Christine to intercede as FL did back on the demolition theory thread?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#66. To: Eric Stratton, buckeroo (#62)
Any chance of getting a private thread somewhere? I don't think that the s/w allows it.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#67. To: AGAviator (#44)
OBL October 2004 TV Transcript
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#68. To: FormerLurker (#65)
Don't lie buckie, you know I didn't ping christine to anything YOU said on that thread. It was your pal who was getting more than just a bit vulgar to a lady on that thread, and I basically just thought it was over the top, so I DID ping her to one of those posts for her information.
to anything YOU said on that thread.
#69. To: FormerLurker (#67)
LOL, what does that fake vid of bin Laden have to do with those "hijackers",
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#70. To: Eric Stratton, FormerLurker, wudidiz, all (#38)
As well the building hit first, with the most direct damage to the core, fell AFTER the South Tower which was hit second and based on the exit angle of the nose of the plane (where the fireball occurred) it suffered less damge, and yet it collapsed first.
#71. To: Eric Stratton (#62)
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~
#72. To: FormerLurker (#67)
what does that fake vid of bin Laden have to do with those "hijackers"
#73. To: buckeroo (#68)
It was your pal who was getting more than just a bit vulgar to a lady on that thread
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#74. To: AGAviator, GreyLmist, Original_Intent, Eric Stratton, wudidiz, HOUNDDAWG, ALL (#17)
(3) How an aircraft controller trying to track a plane with its transponder off, and which completely disappears from the radar screen half way through its descending turn, is able to accurately describe the completed turn as a "precision turn" when the ATC doesn't even see the last half of the turn
(CBS) New radar evidence obtained by CBS News strongly suggests that the hijacked jetliner which crashed into the Pentagon hit its intended target.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#75. To: buckeroo, HOUNDDAWG, ALL (#68)
Speak of a continuous liar that has admitted his own BS in the past....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#76. To: AGAviator (#69)
Now going on 6 years later, the US is facing war costs exceeding $1 Trillion with no end in sight, and is looking at bankruptcty.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#77. To: AGAviator (#73)
A so-called "lady" who acted as a cheerleader and cadence counter for a bunch of gaybanter circle jerk remarks.
#78. To: abraxas (#58)
lol.......you mean that thread that was on the verge of "stellar"?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#79. To: FormerLurker (#76)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#80. To: buckeroo (#72)
What makes you so certain that it is "fake?"
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#81. To: Mudboy Slim (#79)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#82. To: buckeroo (#46)
Since the "Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine" claimed responsibility ... as a result of Osama bin Laden insistence, it is amazing that you think that ANY US agency was involved.
#83. To: FormerLurker (#75)
It's quite clear how honest YOU are bucko.
#84. To: FormerLurker, Mudboy Slim (#81)
#85. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#76)
(Edited)
And what was the purpose of the war in Iraq?
BTW, why do you think the hijackers decided to take over Flight 77 just as it entered an area where primary radar was not available?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#86. To: GreyLmist (#82)
The video you posted yourself at #45 denies that anonymous charge at 2:45.
#87. To: buckeroo (#77)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#88. To: wudidiz (#84)
(Edited)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#89. To: AGAviator, ALL (#73)
a bunch of gaybanter circle jerk remarks
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#90. To: FormerLurker, christine, Jethro Tull (#81)
"...haven't seen you around here for quite some time."
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#91. To: AGAviator, All (#85)
There are no areas where "primary radar is not available" when transponders are transmitting.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#92. To: Mudboy Slim (#87)
that's not the way to approach the truth...please ping me to the thread in question and i will examine the evidence and render a final verdict
#93. To: wudidiz (#84)
"I ran out of smart sounding quotes..."
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#94. To: Eric Stratton (#43)
PS Perhaps you and Agitator can do the rest of us a favor and dispense with your guys' sociopathic tendencies here, honor our requests, and let us kooks discuss this without your or his romper room interference please?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#95. To: buckeroo (#83)
You eventually admitted you were wrong (as usual)....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#96. To: buckeroo (#92)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#97. To: Amandil (#71)
this same crap is happening all over the internet - 2-3 posts by real people asking reasonable questions and/or offering info bits, only to be invaded by these ? whatever they are distracting everything, sometimes paid shills i think,sometimes just assholes, I met a few of them in RL - they laugh and brag about disrupting forums, it's a hobby for them ~ good luck finding/creating a place free from their garabage
#98. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#95)
You take a molehill and try to make a mountain out of it.
#99. To: Original_Intent (#98)
His fragile ego can't handle it, and his fixed ideas won't let him change his "mind".
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#100. To: James Deffenbach, Eric Stratton (#94)
PS Perhaps you and Agitator can do the rest of us a favor and dispense with your guys' sociopathic tendencies here, honor our requests, and let us kooks discuss this without your or his romper room interference please?
#101. To: FormerLurker (#95)
Asking for proof isn't "being wrong"
and since you and AgAviator weren't posting the proof, I assumed it didn't exist.
So ok, there is proof that Hanjour had an actual FAA license (although ALL indications point to the fact he SHOULDN'T have had one).
#102. To: James Deffenbach, wudidiz (#99)
#103. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#89)
There you go, back to YOUR gaybanter again. You are the one who starts these things, that and your little puppy bucko. Then you both start crying little girl tears when people respond in kind, posting pages and pages of inane ad hominem junk, muddying up the thread, then say it was "incredible" and you "refuted" everything that was presented in terms of facts.
Then you both start crying little girl tears when people respond in kind,
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#104. To: Original_Intent (#100)
Freeptardia and Defective Underground?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#105. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, AGAviator, ALL (#98)
His fragile ego can't handle it, and his fixed ideas won't let him change his "mind".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#106. To: AGAviator (#103)
The thread history, which is clearly time and date stamped by poster, puts the lie to your false claims.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#107. To: AGAviator (#103)
That's why your cohorts are complaining buck & show up here to reply to your behind-the-backs, hopeless liar.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#108. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#95)
You take a molehill and try to make a mountain out of it.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#109. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#107)
Paranoid much, shillster?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#110. To: AGAviator (#103)
#111. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#106)
Ok, where on this thread have I posted any "gaybanter"?
"both start crying little girl tears when people respond in kind, posting pages and pages of inane ad hominem junk, muddying up the thread, then say it was "incredible" and you "refuted" everything that was presented in terms of facts"
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#112. To: buckeroo (#101)
And that same certification PROVES, that Hanjour was trained to some extent to slam a jet into a building.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#113. To: AGAviator (#111)
The same place buck & I
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#114. To: AGAviator (#108)
Unfortunately because you were so vicious and unrelenting in your attacks on someone for stating true facts, you came down pretty hard when proven wrong. That's no one's problem but yours.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#115. To: FormerLurker, Original_Intent (#105)
There certainly has to be SOME reason why buck ignores all physical and cimcumstantial evidence, and makes up his own laws of physics.
#116. To: FormerLurker (#112)
No, it simply proves he was able to "buy" a license he wasn't qualified for.
#117. To: buckeroo (#115)
Yet, DEs aren't required to understand, F = MA and in conjunction with the FORCE of jet aircraft slamming into building we also have collaborative photographic information of "pancaking."
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#118. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#113)
Posting facts isn't "gaybanter".
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#119. To: FormerLurker (#117)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#120. To: buckeroo (#116)
Not true as always. It was an FAA licensed instructor signing his credentials. You have lied again.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#121. To: FormerLurker (#117)
You have NO "photographic evidence" of pancaking.
#122. To: James Deffenbach (#119)
No evidence of any pancakes but plenty of eyewitnesses who saw molten steel. And from office fires! Guess that was the syrup for the "pancakes."
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#123. To: FormerLurker (#122)
Yep, and the pulverized concrete was the "confectioners sugar".
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#124. To: FormerLurker (#120)
No idiot
#125. To: buckeroo (#86)
What is important to point out is that Palestinians AND MUSLIMA around the world were doing their LA_LA_LA_LA all over Palestine IMMEDIATELY after the attacks. Complicity? Of course.
#126. To: buckeroo (#86)
What is important to point out is that Palestinians AND MUSLIMA around the world were doing their LA_LA_LA_LA all over Palestine IMMEDIATELY after the attacks. Complicity? Of course.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#127. To: buckeroo (#45)
edit: view about 16:50 into this video.... the building pancaked beneath the downward force of structurally weakened upper floors based on the jet aircraft... there was no other explosions.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#128. To: GreyLmist (#125)
that was a staged deception
#129. To: FormerLurker (#127)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#130. To: AGAviator (#13)
(Edited)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#131. To: FormerLurker (#127)
it indicates that the bottom structure was being PULVERIZED ahead of the actual falling structure.
#132. To: IRTorqued (#130)
what we really want to know is what is on the video from around the pentagon that was confiscated, what is the liar movement trying to hide?
#133. To: buckeroo, ALL (#124)
you can't refute the evidence (DOCUMENTED FROM THE FAA) and his own trainers
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#134. To: buckeroo, IRTorqued (#132)
@45 ... there is LIVE footage showing thousands of Pentagon workers looking at the disaster.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#135. To: FormerLurker (#134)
Oh, and what evidence is there that Hani Hanjour flew that aircraft?
#136. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent, James Deffenbach, wudidiz, IRTorqued, RickyJ (#86)
(Edited)
What is important to point out is that Palestinians AND MUSLIMA around the world were doing their LA_LA_LA_LA all over Palestine IMMEDIATELY after the attacks. Complicity? Of course.
The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards. (1)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#137. To: buckeroo, wudidiz, RickyJ, GreyLmist, FormerLurker, James Deffenbach, Rotara, abraxas, Original_Intent (#132)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#138. To: buckeroo (#135)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#139. To: FormerLurker (#134)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#140. To: buckeroo (#131)
And, you can't because the pancaking occurred from the TOP FLOORS downward just below the impacts of the respective jet aircraft. Not UPWARD as in a controlled or even an uncontrolled demolition.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#141. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#118)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#142. To: buckeroo (#128)
(Edited)
http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=yuvscDkrs3U&feature=related
#143. To: AGAviator, ALL (#118)
Then you got nothing to complain about when I call your so-called ***lady*** a Circle Jerk Fag Hag.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#144. To: IRTorqued (#141)
at best AGovshill is the bottom of the gutter of the low road.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#145. To: FormerLurker, James Deffenbach (#122)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#146. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#133)
(Edited)
Let me remind you that the info is highly referenced and not subject to your interpretations...
*Al Qaeda’s Top Gun
*Willful Deception by the 9/11 Commission
*The Legend Unraveled
*In an apparent attempt to bolster the misleading characterization that Hanjour began training "in earnest",...
*Furthermore, there remains an open question about whether Hanjour was actually qualified to receive that certificate...
*It seems highly dubious...
FALSE STATEMENT: *Anyone unfamiliar with pilot certification could easily make the mistake of thinking a "commercial pilot license" meant Hanjour was qualified to fly a jet airliner, a conclusion reinforced by the Washington Post’s false assertion that his certificate allowed him "to fly commercial jets." ...
*The 9/11 Commission report reinforced that false impression, only vaguely hinting at the truth...
*But the Commission then further obfuscated that truth...
*The implications are that Hanjour was
*By misleadingly suggesting that this occurred...
*Apparently intended to bolster the claim that this was "refresher" training by making it sound as though this occurred at Hanjour’s old school,...
*The 9/11 Commission was also deceiving the public suggesting that the sole reason Hanjour was not able to complete his training on multi-engine planes was because his English wasn’t good enough....
TRUE STATMENT!!!! *"There was no suspicion as far as evildoing. It was more of a very typical instructional concern...
*As already discussed, It remains an open question whether Hanjour was actually qualified...
*Instead, the FAA inspector who "even sat next to the hijacker, Hani Hanjour, in one of the Arizona classes" and "checked records to ensure Hanjour’s 1999 pilot’s license was legitimate" concluded that "no other action was warranted" and actually suggested that Hanjour get a translator
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#147. To: FormerLurker (#140)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#148. To: FormerLurker (#143)
Obvious that you respond to facts with ad hominems.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#149. To: FormerLurker (#144)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#150. To: AGAviator (#148)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#151. To: IRTorqued (#149)
could be he is just ascairt of the women folk. they intimidate him?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#152. To: AGAviator (#148)
(1) Why is a 1/2 G turn called a "fighter pilot maneuver" when student pilots must pull 2 G's and fighter pilots pull over 8 G's.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#153. To: AGAviator (#148)
(2) Why is descending at 46.4667 feet per second or 31.818 MPH vertically called a "fighter manueuver" when roller coasters go faster than that.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#154. To: AGAviator (#148)
(3) Why a controller can express an opinion of a turn that does not even show up on the radar screen for its last half as being a "precision" turn she could not even see.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#155. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#152)
Give me the source that states fighter aircraft ALWAYS pull over 8 g's.
Also, give me a source
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#156. To: AGAviator (#155)
Nobody said that. However fighter pilots need to pull over 8 G's just to break away from SAM'S.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#157. To: AGAviator (#155)
When an irreversible setup exists making you unable to post further after I do prove what you challenge and claim to be false.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#158. To: AGAviator (#146)
and actually suggested that Hanjour get a translator
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#159. To: buckeroo, GreyLmist, *9-11* (#128)
.
#160. To: All (#159)
#161. To: GreyLmist, All (#160)
The Palestinian woman who was offered cake....
I ran out of smart sounding quotes
#162. To: AGAviator (#66)
#163. To: Amandil (#71)
#164. To: Eric Stratton (#162)
What should I/we assume, that you guys are just that, a couple of real pricks and first-class assholes, or what AGA? You tell me!!
I ran out of smart sounding quotes
#165. To: AGAviator (#151)
(Edited)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#166. To: James Deffenbach (#94)
#167. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, AGAviator, ALL (#105)
His fragile ego can't handle it, and his fixed ideas won't let him change his "mind".
#168. To: Eric Stratton (#162)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#169. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#157)
Now, give me a source
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#170. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, all (#169)
you need to state why they are all wrong and you have some privileged and specific information that overrides everything they've said and done.
I ran out of smart sounding quotes
#171. To: Eric Stratton, christine, buckeroo (#166)
Perhaps they can apply for the position of ass-plug for the GOP equivalent of Barney Frank.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#172. To: AGAviator (#169)
Give yourself a source.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#173. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker (#169)
(Edited)
There are hundreds of people who worked on a report saying that it crashed into the Pentagon, and there are hundreds more who provided evidence and testimony used to arrive at that conclusion.
#174. To: AGAviator, wudidiz, RickyJ, GreyLmist, FormerLurker, James Deffenbach, Rotara, abraxas, Original_Intent (#169)
Before you proceed any further, you need to state why they are all wrong and you have some privileged and specific information that overrides everything they've said and done.
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#175. To: Eric Stratton, buckeroo, turtle (#162)
Why, you two can't not come in and shit all over the place and make a big mess?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#176. To: FormerLurker (#172)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#177. To: AGAviator, Eric Stratton, turtle, All (#175)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#178. To: IRTorqued (#176)
he wont because he can't, his handler figured everyone was as stupid as AGovshill and bucky are and would just take their word for it like the liar movement members did/do.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#179. To: wudidiz (#164)
#180. To: AGAviator (#175)
#181. To: FormerLurker (#178)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#182. To: Eric Stratton (#180)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#183. To: IRTorqued (#182)
#184. To: All (#182)
#185. To: Eric Stratton (#179)
I'm starting to think that that's their sole purpose.
I ran out of smart sounding quotes
#186. To: wudidiz (#185)
#187. To: FormerLurker (#172)
The 9/11 Commission estimates that Flight 77 hijacker Hani Hanjour checks in at the American Airlines ticket counter at Washington’s Dulles International Airport some time between 7:25 a.m. and 7:35 a.m. (American Airlines will be unable to locate information confirming his check-in time.) [9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 93 ]
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#188. To: Eric Stratton (#184)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#189. To: Eric Stratton (#184)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#190. To: IRTorqued (#139)
that factaphobic bucky knows those are the videos that needs to be seen by the public but can't because it will destroy the liar movement. when the liar movement is destroyed bucky and AGovshill are out of a job, poor saps.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#191. To: FormerLurker (#140)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#192. To: IRTorqued (#145)
the humanity....we missed Saint Alfonzo's pancake breakfast.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#193. To: Eric Stratton (#166)
Perhaps they can apply for the position of ass-plug for the GOP equivalent of Barney Frank.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#194. To: IRTorqued (#168)
careful you are dealing with guy who could on a regular basis come in second place in a debate with yukon, third if mad dog chimed in.
LOL!
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#195. To: IRTorqued (#189)
#196. To: IRTorqued (#188)
#197. To: James Deffenbach (#191)
#198. To: Eric Stratton (#197)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#199. To: Eric Stratton (#196)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#200. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#138)
DO you know of any evidence indicating Hani Hanjour was onboard that aircraft [AAFLT77, flight from IAD to LAX (pushed back from Gate D26 at 08:09 AM and took off from Runway 30 at Dulles at 08:20 AM) on Tuesday September 11, 2001], and that he took control of the plane and flew it from Ohio to Washington DC?
#201. To: buckeroo (#200)
Do you know of any evidence indicating Hani Hanjour was onboard that aircraft [AAFLT 77]?
And does FL have any evidence that Hanjour was not on that flight?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#202. To: AGAviator (#201)
#203. To: buckeroo, AGaviator, ALL (#200)
Me: DO you know of any evidence indicating Hani Hanjour was onboard that aircraft, and that he took control of the plane and flew it from Ohio to Washington DC?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#204. To: AGAviator, buckeroo, ALL (#201)
And does FL have any evidence that Hanjour was not on that flight? No.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#205. To: FormerLurker (#203)
(Edited)
Post it then, with a credible source.
#206. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#204)
I don't need to prove a negative.
There is no credible evidence that proves Hanjour was ever on that flight.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#207. To: AGAviator (#206)
(Edited)
Actually there is, and it is the result of hundreds of investigators and tens of thousands of man hours.
#208. To: buckeroo (#207)
I am still attempting to find out what his jail sentence was. Alfauru helped most of the illegal aliens acquire fake IDs.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#209. To: buckeroo (#205)
NEWARK, New Jersey (CNN) -- Federal prosecutors charged a Jordanian man with participating in a fake ID ring that helped several September 11 hijackers obtain bogus driver's licenses and identification cards, prosecutors said Wednesday.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#210. To: buckeroo (#205)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#211. To: buckeroo, AGAviator, Original_Intent, All (#205)
Hani Hanjour
Obtained a commercial pilot's license in April 1999 from the Federal Aviation Administration. The license expired six months later because he failed to complete a required medical exam. In 1996, he received flight training for a few months at a private school in Scottsdale, Ariz., but did not finish the course because his instructors thought he was not proficient enough. He listed his address as a post office box in Taife, Saudi Arabia, but he also has been linked to addresses in San Diego and Hollywood, Fla. His name was not on the American Airlines manifest for the flight because he may not have had a ticket.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#212. To: FormerLurker (#211)
Hanjour presented his Virginia driver's license when he purchased his plane ticket on August 31 from a New Jersey travel agent.
#213. To: FormerLurker (#204)
I don't need to prove a negative.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#214. To: buckeroo (#212)
Hanjour presented his Virginia driver's license when he purchased his plane ticket on August 31 from a New Jersey travel agent.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#215. To: FormerLurker (#214)
I find the Washington Post more credible than you
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#216. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#214)
I find the Washington Post more credible than you and your government handlers.
#217. To: buckeroo, ALL (#216)
XV. SEARCH EVIDENCE
At approximately 3:45 PM, on 09/12/01, WFO was notified by the Dulles Airport police
that a suspicious vehicle was found at Dulles International Airport (IAD), Hourly Lot, Row G,
Dulles, Virginia. A vehicle record check determined that the vehicle was registered to NAWAF
AL-HAZMI, of 8451 Mount Vernon Avenue, Lemon Grove, California, 91945. A search
warrant was approved for the 1988 4-door blue Toyota Corolla, CA 3JFZ283, VIN
#JT2AE92E9J313137546. Items seized include the following:
1) An hourly parking ticket dated and stamped 09/11/01 7:25 AM
2) Four (4) color diagrams of an instrument panel for a B757 aircraft
3) One yellow and black utility knife (box cutter)
4) One Pan Am International Flight Academy, Jet Tech International, Phoenix, AZ,
identification card in the name of HANI HANJOUR
5) A cashier's check to the Flight Academy in the amount of $5745 from HANJOUR.
6) A travel itinerary for seats 13 A and 13B for KHALID AL-MIHDHAR and MAJED
MOQED on AA Flight 77
Law Enforcement Sensitive
JICI 04/19/02 FBI03116
Law Enforcement Sensitive.
7) A piece of paper with the name "Osama 5895316"
8) Packing slip of package sent by Rawf Al Dog, 1565 Washington Boulevard, #8, Laurel,
Maryland through Mail Boxes, Etc. via U.S. Mail Express, to the United Arab Emirates
'_. on 09/10/01 at 6:57 AM
9) . • A checkbook with partially written checks with an account name of NAWAF AL
HAZMI, 96 Linwood Plaza, #417, Fort Lee, NJ, from Hudson United Bank, Levittown,
PA, account#3980999775
10) One Maryland Motor Vehicle receipt for new identification card #H526298757675, dated
09/5/01 at 12:17 PM, with a handwritten address on the back of "505, 14800 4th Street,
Laurel, Maryland, 20707"
11) ATM receipt from First Union Bank of a deposit to account #1010042788049 for
$120.00 on 09/10/01.
2) Not have left every single piece of evidence in the car he left, sitting in the parking garage at the airport he would never return to. He may as well just have painted his car with big red letters "I AM THE HIJACKER.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#218. To: FormerLurker (#217)
(Edited)
Talk about a perfect yet obvious setup.
Osama Awadallah San Diego, California Jordanian originally suspected of giving support to 9/11 hijacker Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi. However to date, the only charges filed have been lying to a Federal Grand Jury saying he did not know hijacker Almihdar.
#219. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent, ALL (#216)
9/11/2001
HANJOUR boarded American Airlines Flight 77 at Dulles International
Airport, Washington, DC, seat IB.
[American Airlines manifest; Dulles security video tapes]
The actual Hani Hanjour
The alleged "Hanjour" at Dulles International Airport on 9/11/2001,
Note: The actual date is uncertain, as there is no timestamp on the video the image was captured from.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#220. To: buckeroo (#218)
You deny hardcore evidence
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#221. To: FormerLurker (#220)
#222. To: buckeroo (#221)
I provided the AA77 manifest.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#223. To: FormerLurker (#222)
You provided an ALLEGED manifest, which is different than the one reviewed by the Washington Post.
#224. To: FormerLurker (#222)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#225. To: buckeroo (#223)
Nope... FACTUAL and from American Airlines.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#226. To: James Deffenbach (#224)
Does it really matter what buck has produced or not produced? Didn't ALL of Hanjours/Hanjoors flight instructors say he was a piss-poor pilot and that he could barely fly a Cessna?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#227. To: FormerLurker (#225)
What makes you think it came from American Airlines? Some guy's word on the Internet?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#228. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#217)
Talk about a perfect yet obvious setup.
If a real person had done what Hanjour is said to have done,
More arm-waving by someone who doesn't wish to consider factual evidence that overthrows preconceived conclusions. What would the problem of deferring all PR announcements to Osama Bin Laden, who would be far better prepared to give them, instead of trying to commander the media communication by himself?
1) Left a note or a video
2) Not have left every single piece of evidence in the car he left
The "box cutters" and the "four color diagrams of a 757 instrument panel" are just a bit much.
In reality, he would have either made it difficult for law enforcment to find out who he was, OR announced that he was in fact the hijacker
Is this document authentic, or was it provided by a writer? 19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the "play dumb" rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon). In order to completely avoid discussing issues may require you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#229. To: buckeroo (#218)
Many of those indictments went to federal court. And many of those same indictments, the defendants pleaded GUILTY.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#230. To: AGAviator (#228)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#231. To: AGAviator (#229)
HAHAHAHAHA.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#232. To: AGAviator (#228)
More arm-waving by someone who doesn't wish to consider factual evidence that overthrows preconceived conclusions.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#233. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#231)
(Edited)
So what of the "hijackers" who are still alive and well?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#234. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#232)
That's all you do here is wave your arms and repeat the same crap over and over again.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#235. To: AGAviator, ALL (#233)
In other words you have no proof that anybody actually did survive who was the same person positively identified as the hijacker.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#236. To: AGAviator (#234)
My postings - and buck's even more so - have specific facts backed by hundreds of pages of specific documentation.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#237. To: FormerLurker (#236)
Hanjour could not fly a simple propeller powered airplane. Hanjour got a license for a single engine airplane and a multi engine airplane. You choose to cherry pick statements by the same people who explicitly said Hanjour was completely capable of flying an aircraft from Point A to Point B then crashing the plane into Point B.
He never flew a jet aircraft.
Yet you want people to believe he defeated the laws of aerodynamics by flying a Boeing 757 jumbo feet 20 feet off the ground at 530 mph.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#238. To: FormerLurker (#236)
I ran out of smart sounding quotes
#239. To: AGAviator (#237)
And he didn't have to. He flew simulators which according to the FAA are valid substitutes and allow you to become fully prepared for a type certification check ride.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#240. To: AGAviator (#237)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#241. To: AGAviator (#237)
You don't know jack $hit about the laws of aerodynamics and you never have demonstrated knowledge of even one detail.
The Impossibility of
Flying Heavy Aircraft
Without Training NILA SAGADEVAN / Earth's Common Sense Think Tank 13jun2006
The writers of the official storyline expect us to believe, that once the flight deck crews had been overpowered, using “box cutters" and the hijackers "took control" of the various aircraft, their intended targets suddenly popped up in their windshields as they would have in some arcade game, and all that these fellows would have had to do was simply aim their airplanes at the buildings and fly into them. Most people who have been exposed only to the official storyline have never been on the flight deck of an airliner at altitude and looked at the outside world; if they had, they would realize the absurdity of this kind of reasoning. 
Text and link to MP3 audio of David Ray Griffin speaking on the collapse of the World Trade
Center at the Grand Lake Theater in Oakland, California on Thursday, 30 March 2006.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#242. To: AGAviator (#237)
It has been me who introduced the concept of ground effect on these threads, and you have misinterpreted that concept into oblivion without understanding it in the least.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#243. To: wudidiz (#238)
You're doing a good job, FL. Fighting lies with truth.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#244. To: AGAviator, Formerlurker (#233)
Because of routinely subpar work by the INS, there were many ways for many different agencies and ad hoc conspiracies to trick the system including: Having a "John Smith" name which many other people also have, being able to mis appropriate someone else's identity, being able to manufacture a false identity, having confusion about translation from Arabic to English for example "Nur" or "Noor" equaling the same Arabic name but beng 2 separate names or people in the US computers, etc.
#245. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#241)
Here's that article again, since you obviously ignored it the last 10 times I posted it to you...
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#246. To: buckeroo (#218)
Wadih el Hage
#247. To: GreyLmist, AGAviator, tom007, turtle, FormerLurker, Original_Intent (#246)
#248. To: buckeroo (#247)
getting back to reality
I ran out of smart sounding quotes
#249. To: buckeroo (#247)
(Edited)
This is an outstanding video and cuts to the chase for understanding the root cause of failure of and about 911. FINALLY, we are getting back to reality instead of useless, meaningless speculation.
#250. To: Eric Stratton (#184)
(Edited)
Anyway, ... back to the topic. If anyone has a data point that fits with the original theme of this thread, please shoot it to me. Feel free to post it here as well.
#251. To: GreyLmist (#250)
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