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Title: Florida church’s ‘Burn a Koran Day’ brings Islamist threats
Source:
Raw Story
URL Source: http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0731/ch ... ondemn-churchs-burn-koran-day/
Published: Aug 1, 2010
Author: Daniel Tencer
Post Date: 2010-08-01 20:14:37 by abraxas
Keywords: None
Views: 8114
Comments: 72
Florida church’s ‘Burn a Koran Day’ brings Islamist threats By Daniel Tencer Saturday, July 31st, 2010 -- 8:04 pm The controversy over the construction of a mosque near Ground Zero in Manhattan has sparked a wave of anti-Muslim activism among some conservative and religious groups, and nowhere is that more in evidence than in a non-denominational church's plan to hold a "Burn a Koran Day" on the next anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Muslim advocacy groups and evangelical Christian organizations alike have condemned the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, for its plans to commemorate the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks with a day for burning Islam's holy book. And at least one jihadist organization has promised revenge if the event goes ahead as planned. "On September 11th, 2010, from 6pm - 9pm, we will burn the Koran on the property of Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, FL in remembrance of the fallen victims of 9/11 and to stand against the evil of Islam," says the church's Facebook page. "Islam is of the devil!" The church has drawn condemnation from the National Association of Evangelicals, which said in a statement that "Burn a Koran Day" shows "disrespect for our Muslim neighbors and would exacerbate tensions between Christians and Muslims throughout the world." “It sounds like the proposed Koran burning is rooted in revenge," NAE President Leith Anderson said. "Yet the Bible says that Christians should ‘make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other and to everyone else’ The church's plans have grabbed the attention of the Islamist movement. Members of the al-Falluja online forum have reportedly promised to "spill rivers of your (American) blood" if the event goes forward. But the church is holding steadfast in its position. "We believe that Islam is ... causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times," Pastor Terry Jones told CNN. The church has also stirred controversy with its plans to protest Gainesville Mayor Craig Lowe, who is openly gay. And some former church members have accused the leadership of using the church's tax-exempt status for profit. The Gainesville Sun reported earlier this month: Former church members who have worshiped under senior pastors Terry and Sylvia Jones are speaking out about what they describe as financial abuses at the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville and its sister church in Cologne, Germany, founded by Terry Jones in 1981 and closed in 2008. By all accounts - the church's Web site, interviews with current and former members and Terry Jones' own description - the church in Gainesville, as was the one in Germany, is structured with a for-profit business operating out of tax-exempt church property, using the unpaid labor of church members to maintain a steady stream of merchandise for sale online. That structure has raised questions with the Alachua County Property Appraiser's Office, which has said it will investigate the church's tax-exempt status.
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#17. To: abraxas (#0)
Christianity Deformed "Christianity Deformed" Addresses Christianity as defined in the Holy Bible. Unfortunately, Christianity has been subjected to the greatest and most dangerous attack since its foundation. Yes, more dangerous than the vicious oppression of the Romans in Christianity's early stages. A hand has been working so hard--so hard-- to crush Christianity and it has finally believed it successfully accomplished its goal. Christianity was always looked upon as the religion of love, which threatens the interests of Imperialists who want to seize control of the world. Therefore, these powers (Imperialists) made a vow: to Crush Christianity through ruining its bright image in the world and transforming it from the religion of love, to another: the Religion of Hatred. Years after this scheme started, These powers (Imperialists) now believe that they got rid of Christianity: they converted Christians to another religion, to Deformed Christianity, which calls for hatred, wars under pretext of self-defense and for superiority of certain people over others. Nations represent the beliefs (religions) of the majority of their citizens. The majority of Westerners (Europeans and Americans) claim to follow the Christian faith, and thus, these numerous unjustified wars led by America and Europe have deformed the bright image of Christianity in the eyes of the world. Moe Fawaz
I guess they wouldn't have a problem with a bunch of Muslims burning a stack of Bibles, eh? Or perhaps some Jews burning a cross or two...
It's no mystery why judeo-christians, old testament bible believers, are easily inspired and driven to vengeance. Revenge monkey-madness is written throughout the old testament. Revenge monkey-madness explains why modern judaics and judeo-christians pursue their enemies and punish them with disproportionate fury. The old testament god is a hebrew tribal god that channels judaic thirst for vengeance.
Vengeance is not a stranger to any culture.
Their religion is just for show. I had a friend who wanted me to join her church, Southern Baptist. So, I went to the Sunday service which consisted of firing up the people against Iran and promoting all things Israel. The majority of the service was political with little mention of Jesus. The people cheered and grunted and groaned with all the pastor had to say. Needlesstosay, I never went back. Come to find out, my friend didn't want to be my friend unless I opted to join the church.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
The ADL would be raging war in a nano minute. The MSM would be airing this anti-semtic story from coast to coast. The following day the church would have its tax status changed and the IRS would be auditing.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
This is true. The one I always remember is Dinah and the Sheshimites. Brutal!!
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
What do you mean? That's a personal story about Muslm folks I've known and exchange students, not a blanket statement. The folks who requested Christian students had troubles with drinking, sneaking out and respect. Up in small town MT, word gets around rather quickly.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
I'm sticking with ODIN!!! He doesn't burn books, he burns cites!
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=11795
Does that include setting up terrorist training camps like the one found in Oregon? Extremely modest, those. Terribly so. Imagine the outrage at a Christian Terrorist Training Camp. People are already going nuts over Westboro Baptist and all they do is carry signs around looking like idiots.
Somewhere, Jimmy Carter is laughing and saying, "Finally! I won't be the worst President ever!"
Specifically, I was referring to the following definitions for modesty: 2.Reserve or propriety in speech, dress, or behavior. 3.Lack of pretentiousness; simplicity. I think Fundie Muslims are a lot like the Westboro Baptist Fundies.....all hardline for a few select quotes of text while ignoring the bulk of the teachings. Dogma prevails.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I accept that definition and stand by my comment. I also agree with your second comment entirely. Problem: There are presently many MANY more "Fundamentalist" Muslims than there are "Fundamentalist" Christians. Solution?
Somewhere, Jimmy Carter is laughing and saying, "Finally! I won't be the worst President ever!"
I disagree. The difference is that the Fundie Muslims will blow themselves up to make a point, taking many innocents with them. Whereas the fundamentalist Christians promote a holy war, attacking Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, bombing Iran and funding Jewish settlements. All of which takes kills and displaces innocents, just not in this nation. There is no small number of Fundie Christians in this nation, in fact, there are MANY more Fundie Christians than Muslims. In Muslim nations, there are more Muslim Fundies. Solution: make them all study Buddhism : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
They also institute judicial disfigurement. I don't see where Christians in Government have imposed that since Christian Fundamentalism got going in the late 19th Century, but am willing to be corrected. I also don't see Christian Fundamentalists using stoning as a judicial punishment. I am willing to be corrected on that as well. I do know of various Christian Fundamentalist Groups that do very strange things in and among themselves, but so far they have not inflicted that on the General Population. Suffice it to say, the Christian Fundamentalists seem to be a preferable group of people to have around ... unless one happens to enjoy attending a good stoning or witnessing people being sliced up by their Government. The military matters will take care of themselves; the US will go broke and that will be the end of it. There are no worries there. Just wait and shortly there will be no more problems with that. However, judicial disfigurements and stonings will continue in the Islamic world.
Somewhere, Jimmy Carter is laughing and saying, "Finally! I won't be the worst President ever!"
Do you believe this or do you just want to believe it?
Here's a man inspired by old testament bible words... Joseph Edward Duncan, III Duncan is one of the most vicious sociopaths in the history of the term. Before the crimes which landed him his death sentence, he had already raped and murdered at least four children, most of them boys, in various places in California and Seattle. He claims to have raped at least 13 boys by his 16th birthday, most at gunpoint. He has been diagnosed with what is now referred to as “malignant narcissism,” “antisocial personality disorder,” and a violent hatred for society in general. His final crimes were the brutal bludgeoning murders of the Groene family in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho in May, 2005. He broke into the home of Brenda Groene and Mark Mackenzie, clubbed them and Brenda’s teenage son, Slade, to death with a hammer, then kidnapped her other children, Shasta, 8, and Dylan, 9, taking them into the Idaho and Montana wilderness. For the next 7 weeks or so, he filmed himself torturing Dylan by hanging him by his wrists to trees, stripping him naked, punching and kicking him all over, especially his genitals, burning him with cigarettes, all while shouting at him that, “God is nowhere listening, Dylan! I am the Devil!” He finally shot Dylan dead, after raping him multiple times over the course of those 7 weeks, during which time he raped and beat Shasta, also. He was apprehended in a Denny’s Restaurant in Coeur d’Alene, when a waitress recognized Shasta. Duncan was eventually given three death sentences and nine life sentences. He frequently smiled when facts of his crimes were read in court. After his sentencing was read aloud, he was asked if he had anything to say. He smirked and recited Ezekiel 21:31, “And I shall deliver thee into the hands of brutish men.” He defined himself as the brutish man, indicating a lack of remorse. He confided to his lawyer that “he only regretted being caught, and that he would try his best to escape prison and kill as many people as he could get his hands on before going back to prison.” For this reason, he is held at ADX Florence in Colorado, south of Denver, one of the most secure facilities in the United States.
Disproportionate vengeance is biblical and judaic.
More disproportionate vengeance from the old testament book people... "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." --Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 The four - Michael Ben-Chorin, Netanel Uzari, Yoel Lerner, and Yosef Dayan - issued a book in honor of Goldstein who slaughtered 40 Palestinian men and boys while they knelt in prayer in the Ibrahimi Mosque at Hebron's Machpela Cave, on Purim 1994. (Purim is the Jewish commemoration of vengeance against non-Jews). The book, Baruch Hagever ("The Blessed Man"), has sold thousands of copies among Jews, and includes an article written by Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, the head of an Israeli yeshiva (religious school). Ginsburg's article "sings the praises" of the killer and calls Goldstein, a 'saint.' "The entire book is indeed full of his praises. It should be noted that no Israeli rabbi (including the 'moderates' among them) has said a word against the contents of the book." Ginsburg declares in Baruch Hagever that what Goldstein did in murdering the unarmed Palestinian civilians at their house of worship, constitutes, "a fulfillment of a number of commands of Jewish religious law...Among his (Goldstein's) good deeds, as enumerated, are...taking revenge on non-Jews, extermination of the non-Jews who are from the seed of Amalek...and the sanctification of the Holy Name. "The murders have led, in the rabbi's opinion, to...clear knowledge among the Jews that 'the life of a Jew is preferable to the life of a non-Jew'... "Goldstein is indeed being worshipped as a saint in (the Jewish settlement ) Kiryat Arba. His intercession before God is asked by pilgrims and it is reported that he cures the ill and generally helps those Jews who ask his help." BEITUNYA, West Bank --Israeli motorists sprayed a group of Palestinian high school students with bullets from American-issued assault weapons on Thursday, Sept. 17, killing one youth and wounding another, witnesses and doctors said. The eyewitnesses said the motorists shot without provocation. The shooting occurred around noon in the West Bank village of Beitunia. Witnesses said about 10 high school students were walking along the main road on their way home from school when a vehicle with Israeli license plates pulled up near them. The passengers rolled down their windows and began firing from a pistol and an assault rifle, said Raed Abdel Rahman, 17, one of the students who escaped injury. "Everybody started to jump and take cover," said Rahman. A high school student who was also on the scene, Hassan al-Qadi, told reporters, "They were shooting randomly." The wounded were taken to nearby Ramallah Hospital. Iyad Rahwa Qarabsi, 17, a high school senior described as an outstanding student, was shot in the stomach. He died at the hospital about an hour later, according to Ramallah hospital director Shauke Harb. A doctor described the cause of death as bullet wounds from an M-16, an American-made, military assault rifle that Israeli settlers and soldiers carry. 15 year-old Mahmoud Issa Jabarin was in stable condition; also with a stomach wound, hospital officials said. At the family home, Qarabsi's mother collapsed on the floor and wept over the murder of her teenage son. "My beloved, you didn't come home with your schoolbooks today!" she sobbed. Ibrahim Murar, the principal of Beitunya's 700-student Palestinian high school said, ""He was one of the very best students in the school. School was more important to him than anything else." After being held in custody for three days, the Jewish gunman, Avshalom Ladani, 35, a member of the West Bank settlement of Dolev, was released by Israeli authorities. Ladani immediately joined a party at a Jerusalem hotel where he was feted as a hero. "We call on all [Jewish] residents to view Avshalom's behavior as upstanding citizenship," declared an advertisement placed in Israeli newspapers by the Yesha Council, a settlers' group. The ad said the Jewish killer was being "persecuted." Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu refused to condemn the shootings of the Palestinian students. According to the Sept. 21 Washington Post, "His aides pleaded extenuating circumstances..." They said the killer had been "provoked." Israeli officials said the shooting was not an act of Jewish terrorism; they termed the settler's action merely "carelessness," and "violence that was disproportionate." "This sounds to me like it was really an act of self-defense, if perhaps a careless one," said David Bar-Illan, an adviser to Netanyahu. A second Israeli gunman remains at large. This is the second shooting within two days in which Israelis killed or wounded Palestinian youths. On Tuesday, Sept. 15, a Jewish settler shot and wounded 16- year-old Mohammed Musa Dweik in the Palestinian village of Zatara. In America, one of the most zealous supporters of the gun-toting Israeli settlers and their right to automatic weapons banned in the U.S., is Brooklyn Congressman Charles E. Schumer. Schumer helped promote and pass the the Federal government's assault weapons ban, which outlawed the sale to the American people of 19 types of semiautomatic weapons, many of which are possessed by Israeli settlers. Schumer has stated, "I have made it (gun control) one of my life's works..."
Do you believe this or do you just want to believe it? That's not what I wrote. This is what I said, referring to cheney: Cheney just killed them. He didn't torture them for all eternity. If you're asking me if I believe in "eternal hell", it's not that I don't believe in it. It's that it just isn't in scripture. Where does that word "hell" even come from? But to each his own. If people want to believe that their god tortures people endlessly, but still loves everyone, that's their business. It's a very popular belief. . .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Out of all the people I can think of that I'd NOT want to spend eternity with, religious nutters lead the list by a long shot. Every religious thread I've ever seen has turned out to be a pissing match between dueling psychotics. Thank goodness for the ignore thread feature.
Well, at least you're a cool jerk!
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
When are the three death sentences scheduled to happen?
I've come to one conclusion in regards to ALL organized religions. They're ALL false. There is NO truth in what they believe, and each and every faith only cares how many dollars come into their coffers. If Religions were truly about peace and good will, then there would be no homeless, and our leaders wouldn't be so fucking Godless, as to enslave the people they supposedly represent. The lie of religion, or these fakirs who tout their version of faith, is that believeth only in THEIR Gods, and thou shalt go to heaven. If that is the case, than the heaven they send us to, will feel like hell for those who wish to be FREE. When I die, if given the choice between eternal suffering, or eternal joy, I would tell God, or the devil that they are one in the same, because after a time, no matter how sadistic the torture or how exquisite the joy, it's going to reach a level of nothingness after a time. Meaning that in order for us primitive humans to have any kind of paradise, we must have ups and downs where we can live a little, and die a little every day. I don't see that being real, or true in ANY of the organized religions of today. What happens after the battle of armageddon? Peace? God rules planet earth? Oh goodie. Then we'll never have another bad day in our lives, or afterlives right? If heaven were truly full of the good people of the world, and hell were truly full of the bad, it would be of great interest to see what great men and women of our history were rotting in hell wouldn't it?
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
Count me in. Where can I get a t-shirt depicting the last moments in the life of Che Guevara?
"The people in power will not disappear voluntarily, giving flowers to the cops just isn't going to work. This thinking is fostered by the establishment; they like nothing better than love and nonviolence. The only way I like to see cops given flowers is in a flower pot from a high window.” - William S Burroughs
I avoid blanket statements like that. I've seen a pretty normal curve for the most part. Well, Eric, I'll have to say that, in general terms, I have to concur with abraxas' "blanket statement." Although we see the abuse of women and a harsh civil code in many states under Muslim rule that we would rebel under, what abraxas says reflects my experience in living in the Middle East with respect to an attitude of personal modesty among adults and respect and obedience among the young. What's left out of the equation here is that a bare couple of generations ago, people in the West were raised to the same standards. That was before we were inundated with the culture of rebellion and extended adolescence that now engulfs us. My granddaddy back in the old country had four daughters. Like young women everywhere his daughters were fond of gossip and they loved to chat at the dinner table. My mother told me that when the chatter got out of hand, the old man would "look up" and that would be enough to can the discussion. Children were to be seen and not heard, and parents' words were law. That is how it is in the Middle East, by and large, and what you see there is an artifact perhaps less of religion than it is of a traditional culture and set of attitudes about family that we have let go by the wayside -- for good or ill.
There is no long form.
Right here, just print this out Poor Che, here he is being led by Bolivian immigration police from court after being convicted of: 1- Overstaying on his tourist visa WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
So the son of a bitch got away with murder. So what, we'll stop him next time!
"The people in power will not disappear voluntarily, giving flowers to the cops just isn't going to work. This thinking is fostered by the establishment; they like nothing better than love and nonviolence. The only way I like to see cops given flowers is in a flower pot from a high window.” - William S Burroughs
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
But to each his own. If people want to believe that their god tortures people endlessly, but still loves everyone, that's their business. It's a very popular belief. I don't believe it because it isn't in Scripture. And to me God is love is totally incongruent with the concept of eternal torture. And I know it is widely believed and that's fine with me but I do have real problems of how it is used to try to control people or wish something so severe on someone because they don't believe what the "Christian" said. If any thought is widely believed I question it. I'm cynical of human nature.
That's kind of disconcerting because I could have written that, word for word. I'm used to disagreeing with others on these things.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or If Religions were truly about peace and good will, then there would be no homeless, and our leaders wouldn't be so fucking Godless, as to enslave the people they supposedly represent. I disagree. All contain some truth, but none contain the whole truth. I've also come to the conclusion that this is by design. Dogma keeps people from seeing the truth in other faiths, in fact, it keeps most from ever even knowing ANYTHING about what they claim to false and evil. I think, again, dogma clouds the ability of any religion to promote the peace and good will for ALL. The religious are generally happy to help those who believe as they do or those whom they feel they can convince. And equally happy to condemn and persecute those who do not. Run over the bum in the parking lot while leaving Sunday service sort of mentality. Pius on Sunday or Saturday while corrupt to the core for the rest of the week, awaiting once a week repentence. Yes, religion has has always been tool for the politicains. Sometimes, on an average day, I experience a glimpse of paradise. I think it is in the NOW, not some distant location. And yes, we must suffer to truly know joy. Ah, nothingness is a particular kind of paradise by itself. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
lol.....thanks Turtle. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
No it isn't. Look at the wars fought in ancient Rome and Ancient Greece. Khan's conquering of Asia and half of Europe was "disproportionate vengeance" for a Sultan murdering Khan's ambassadors. We can go further to the wars in China and Japan. That is not even mentioning of the violence in the wars fought in pre-colonization of Latin and South America. You singling out judeo-christian people merely shows your bias that borders on bigotry.
And in this nation Christian Fundies will keep killing abortion doctors. One crazy CF opened fire in a church because he didn't like liberals. You find that fundies everywhere create distruction. CF's that create a cult type atmosphere will continue to sexually abuse young girls and keep them from being "tainted" from the worldly. Old bastards will continue to create CF cults in order to marry multiple young girls. Those old bastards will have sons who carry on the tradition--all right here in the USA. You want to make this a "comparative fundamentalist" discourse, but I do not. I believe that Muslim and Christian Fundementalists are equally dangerous. You can prefer one over the other if you like, I prefer to dislike BOTH equally and on the same merit or lack of merits if you will.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
The difference between the Christian Fundamentalist and the Islamic Fundamentalist is that the Christian Fundamenatlist, when he goes off the reservation, is disowned by his own kind and punished appropriately. When an Islamic Fundamentalist goes off the reservation and kills a few hundred people (as opposed to your 'lone gunman' situation) that individual is lauded and praised. Now, before we continue, name me a single "Christian" country where judicial disfigurement or stoning is the law of the land. You are correct in saying they are both nasty critters, but the depths of nasty have a wide gulf between them. There is not a single "Christian Fundamentalist" nation on the planet with a Government putting their scriptures - all of them - into law. There are, however, several Islamic Fundamentalist nations where the religion IS the law. Therein is the difference between the two. Lone nutcase or Governmental Authority. Learn the difference between the two and learn to recognize it.
Somewhere, Jimmy Carter is laughing and saying, "Finally! I won't be the worst President ever!"
When an Islamic Fundamentalist goes off the reservation and kills a few hundred people (as opposed to your 'lone gunman' situation) that individual is lauded and praised. Therein is the difference between the two. Lone nutcase or Governmental Authority. Learn the difference between the two and learn to recognize it. You are making broad generalizations that don't apply. Of the few Muslims I know, NONE praised any acts of violence. They disown folks who do such things. The majority of Muslims feel this way. Stoning isn't allowed. However, the ME nations you speak of are also MUCH further behind in many other ways. For the most part, indoor bathrooms are a luxury. Many are still TRIBAL and evoke tribal rules. Doesn't make it right, but forcing "democracy" on them isn't going to help either. Women in Islamic nations were voting hundreds of years before American women had the right. So, each nation is bass ackwards in certain ways. Again, I'm not really interested in a comparative analysis between this first world nation and third world Muslim nations. I don't see the playing fields as equal in anyway. You want to cheer lead first world nations for being further ahead, but that is to be EXPECTED. Now, you want to argue the "depth of nasty" but nasty is nasty. Yes, there are nations who are created as a theocracy, as in many Muslim nations. What of it? That is what the people want. Israel is a theocracy, providing special treatment for Jews in the Jewish state while pretending to be a democracy. At least the Muslims are honest about it. I know the differences and I don't need you to cherry pick what you deem is better about one fundie over another to persuade me to think like you do. Like I said, I view both as EQUALLY unsavory. Your broad generalizations don't change that, nor does your comparative analysis of turd world Muslim nations to the US. The self righteous closing does nothing to help your argument.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
On the contrary, there is a vast difference between Government Sponsored and Private Citizen. We see it every day here in the US. In fact, people on 4um use that identical argument when discussing Israel. If suddenly we are to excuse Middle Eastern nations, then we also must excuse Israel and the United States. The same standard must apply across the board otherwise there are no standards and we must then excuse Israel and the United States. Not sure about anyone else but I am not willing to go there.
Somewhere, Jimmy Carter is laughing and saying, "Finally! I won't be the worst President ever!"
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#18. To: abraxas (#0)
"On September 11th, 2010, from 6pm - 9pm, we will burn the Koran on the property of Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, FL in remembrance of the fallen victims of 9/11 and to stand against the evil of Islam," says the church's Facebook page. "Islam is of the devil!"
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#19. To: abraxas (#0)
(Edited)
"It sounds like the proposed Koran burning is rooted in revenge," NAE President Leith Anderson said. "
#20. To: Googolplex (#19)
#21. To: randge (#14)
These knuckle dragging peasants will have their ignorant provocations, and they'll get what comes 'round.
#22. To: Esso (#11)
Gee, I wonder what would happen if a church was to have a 'Burn the Talmud Day'?
#23. To: Googolplex (#19)
It's no mystery why judeo-christians, old testament bible believers, are easily inspired and driven to vengeance.
#24. To: abraxas (#7)
#25. To: Eric Stratton (#24)
I avoid blanket statements like that. I've seen a pretty normal curve for the most part.
#26. To: abraxas (#25)
#27. To: Jethro Tull (#13)
I'm for burning both the Good Book and the Jew Book.
#28. To: Jethro Tull (#13)
#29. To: abraxas (#7)
In many ways, the Muslims have a modesty that Christians might want to aspire to regain.
How about the underwear bomber exposing himself in public as he did?
#30. To: mirage (#29)
#31. To: abraxas (#30)
#32. To: mirage (#31)
Problem: There are presently many MANY more "Fundamentalist" Muslims than there are "Fundamentalist" Christians.
#33. To: abraxas (#32)
The difference is that the Fundie Muslims will blow themselves up to make a point, taking many innocents with them.
#34. To: PSUSA (#4)
He (the Christian God) didn't torture them for all eternity
#35. To: abraxas (#0)
He smirked and recited Ezekiel 21:31, “And I shall deliver thee into the hands of brutish men.”
#36. To: PaulCJ (#20)
Vengeance is not a stranger to any culture.
#37. To: PaulCJ (#20)
www.rense.com/general42/morej.htm
#38. To: Bill Crowe (#34)
He (the Christian God) didn't torture them for all eternity
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#39. To: Esso (#16)
I hear ya. Religion has morphed into nothing more than a mass mental illness and excuse for bad behavior.
#40. To: abraxas (#6)
Why are you calling me a jerk Tom?
#41. To: Googolplex (#35)
#42. To: abraxas (#0)
#43. To: Esso, Flintlock (#12)
let's have a 'Burn the Talmud Day' and see how many FedGoob M16s show up.
#44. To: Eric Stratton (#24)
In many ways, the Muslims have a modesty that Christians might want to aspire to regain. All whom I have known have been kind and honest people, who teach their children fantastic values. My sister has had two exchange students, both Muslim. Initially, this concerned her and her husband, but now they intend to REQUEST Muslims because they are SO respectful and such good kids. They are told to do a chore ONCE and they always do it like clock work. They really respect all elders and strive to make their parents, even temporary parents, proud of them.
#45. To: Dakmar (#43)
(Edited)
Where can I get a t-shirt depicting the last moments in the life of Che Guevara?
2- Working in the country illegally
3- Impersonating a Bolivian woman (Yes, he was wearing a Derby when they caught him)
#46. To: Flintlock (#45)
#47. To: randge (#44)
#48. To: randge (#44)
#49. To: PSUSA (#38)
If you're asking me if I believe in "eternal hell", it's not that I don't believe in it. It's that it just isn't in scripture.
#50. To: Bill Crowe (#49)
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#51. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#42)
They're ALL false. There is NO truth in what they believe
#52. To: Turtle (#40)
Well, at least you're a cool jerk!
#53. To: Googolplex (#36)
Disproportionate vengeance is biblical and judaic.
#54. To: mirage (#33)
However, judicial disfigurements and stonings will continue in the Islamic world.
#55. To: abraxas (#54)
#56. To: mirage (#55)
when he goes off the reservation, is disowned by his own kind and punished appropriately.
#57. To: abraxas (#56)
The self righteous closing does nothing to help your argument.
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