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Title: Florida church’s ‘Burn a Koran Day’ brings Islamist threats
Source:
Raw Story
URL Source: http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0731/ch ... ondemn-churchs-burn-koran-day/
Published: Aug 1, 2010
Author: Daniel Tencer
Post Date: 2010-08-01 20:14:37 by abraxas
Keywords: None
Views: 8141
Comments: 72
Florida church’s ‘Burn a Koran Day’ brings Islamist threats By Daniel Tencer Saturday, July 31st, 2010 -- 8:04 pm The controversy over the construction of a mosque near Ground Zero in Manhattan has sparked a wave of anti-Muslim activism among some conservative and religious groups, and nowhere is that more in evidence than in a non-denominational church's plan to hold a "Burn a Koran Day" on the next anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Muslim advocacy groups and evangelical Christian organizations alike have condemned the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, for its plans to commemorate the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks with a day for burning Islam's holy book. And at least one jihadist organization has promised revenge if the event goes ahead as planned. "On September 11th, 2010, from 6pm - 9pm, we will burn the Koran on the property of Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, FL in remembrance of the fallen victims of 9/11 and to stand against the evil of Islam," says the church's Facebook page. "Islam is of the devil!" The church has drawn condemnation from the National Association of Evangelicals, which said in a statement that "Burn a Koran Day" shows "disrespect for our Muslim neighbors and would exacerbate tensions between Christians and Muslims throughout the world." “It sounds like the proposed Koran burning is rooted in revenge," NAE President Leith Anderson said. "Yet the Bible says that Christians should ‘make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other and to everyone else’ The church's plans have grabbed the attention of the Islamist movement. Members of the al-Falluja online forum have reportedly promised to "spill rivers of your (American) blood" if the event goes forward. But the church is holding steadfast in its position. "We believe that Islam is ... causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times," Pastor Terry Jones told CNN. The church has also stirred controversy with its plans to protest Gainesville Mayor Craig Lowe, who is openly gay. And some former church members have accused the leadership of using the church's tax-exempt status for profit. The Gainesville Sun reported earlier this month: Former church members who have worshiped under senior pastors Terry and Sylvia Jones are speaking out about what they describe as financial abuses at the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville and its sister church in Cologne, Germany, founded by Terry Jones in 1981 and closed in 2008. By all accounts - the church's Web site, interviews with current and former members and Terry Jones' own description - the church in Gainesville, as was the one in Germany, is structured with a for-profit business operating out of tax-exempt church property, using the unpaid labor of church members to maintain a steady stream of merchandise for sale online. That structure has raised questions with the Alachua County Property Appraiser's Office, which has said it will investigate the church's tax-exempt status.
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#1. To: abraxas (#0)
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That's what I was thinking. Just doing onto others as they would have done to them, right?
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Problem is you can't have freedom of religion and then rush in and stop a "proliferation" of a certain religion. In many ways, the Muslims have a modesty that Christians might want to aspire to regain. All whom I have known have been kind and honest people, who teach their children fantastic values. My sister has had two exchange students, both Muslim. Initially, this concerned her and her husband, but now they intend to REQUEST Muslims because they are SO respectful and such good kids. They are told to do a chore ONCE and they always do it like clock work. They really respect all elders and strive to make their parents, even temporary parents, proud of them.
Does that include setting up terrorist training camps like the one found in Oregon? Extremely modest, those. Terribly so. Imagine the outrage at a Christian Terrorist Training Camp. People are already going nuts over Westboro Baptist and all they do is carry signs around looking like idiots.
Specifically, I was referring to the following definitions for modesty: 2.Reserve or propriety in speech, dress, or behavior. 3.Lack of pretentiousness; simplicity. I think Fundie Muslims are a lot like the Westboro Baptist Fundies.....all hardline for a few select quotes of text while ignoring the bulk of the teachings. Dogma prevails.
I accept that definition and stand by my comment. I also agree with your second comment entirely. Problem: There are presently many MANY more "Fundamentalist" Muslims than there are "Fundamentalist" Christians. Solution?
I disagree. The difference is that the Fundie Muslims will blow themselves up to make a point, taking many innocents with them. Whereas the fundamentalist Christians promote a holy war, attacking Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, bombing Iran and funding Jewish settlements. All of which takes kills and displaces innocents, just not in this nation. There is no small number of Fundie Christians in this nation, in fact, there are MANY more Fundie Christians than Muslims. In Muslim nations, there are more Muslim Fundies. Solution: make them all study Buddhism : )
They also institute judicial disfigurement. I don't see where Christians in Government have imposed that since Christian Fundamentalism got going in the late 19th Century, but am willing to be corrected. I also don't see Christian Fundamentalists using stoning as a judicial punishment. I am willing to be corrected on that as well. I do know of various Christian Fundamentalist Groups that do very strange things in and among themselves, but so far they have not inflicted that on the General Population. Suffice it to say, the Christian Fundamentalists seem to be a preferable group of people to have around ... unless one happens to enjoy attending a good stoning or witnessing people being sliced up by their Government. The military matters will take care of themselves; the US will go broke and that will be the end of it. There are no worries there. Just wait and shortly there will be no more problems with that. However, judicial disfigurements and stonings will continue in the Islamic world.
And in this nation Christian Fundies will keep killing abortion doctors. One crazy CF opened fire in a church because he didn't like liberals. You find that fundies everywhere create distruction. CF's that create a cult type atmosphere will continue to sexually abuse young girls and keep them from being "tainted" from the worldly. Old bastards will continue to create CF cults in order to marry multiple young girls. Those old bastards will have sons who carry on the tradition--all right here in the USA. You want to make this a "comparative fundamentalist" discourse, but I do not. I believe that Muslim and Christian Fundementalists are equally dangerous. You can prefer one over the other if you like, I prefer to dislike BOTH equally and on the same merit or lack of merits if you will.
The difference between the Christian Fundamentalist and the Islamic Fundamentalist is that the Christian Fundamenatlist, when he goes off the reservation, is disowned by his own kind and punished appropriately. When an Islamic Fundamentalist goes off the reservation and kills a few hundred people (as opposed to your 'lone gunman' situation) that individual is lauded and praised. Now, before we continue, name me a single "Christian" country where judicial disfigurement or stoning is the law of the land. You are correct in saying they are both nasty critters, but the depths of nasty have a wide gulf between them. There is not a single "Christian Fundamentalist" nation on the planet with a Government putting their scriptures - all of them - into law. There are, however, several Islamic Fundamentalist nations where the religion IS the law. Therein is the difference between the two. Lone nutcase or Governmental Authority. Learn the difference between the two and learn to recognize it.
When an Islamic Fundamentalist goes off the reservation and kills a few hundred people (as opposed to your 'lone gunman' situation) that individual is lauded and praised. Therein is the difference between the two. Lone nutcase or Governmental Authority. Learn the difference between the two and learn to recognize it. You are making broad generalizations that don't apply. Of the few Muslims I know, NONE praised any acts of violence. They disown folks who do such things. The majority of Muslims feel this way. Stoning isn't allowed. However, the ME nations you speak of are also MUCH further behind in many other ways. For the most part, indoor bathrooms are a luxury. Many are still TRIBAL and evoke tribal rules. Doesn't make it right, but forcing "democracy" on them isn't going to help either. Women in Islamic nations were voting hundreds of years before American women had the right. So, each nation is bass ackwards in certain ways. Again, I'm not really interested in a comparative analysis between this first world nation and third world Muslim nations. I don't see the playing fields as equal in anyway. You want to cheer lead first world nations for being further ahead, but that is to be EXPECTED. Now, you want to argue the "depth of nasty" but nasty is nasty. Yes, there are nations who are created as a theocracy, as in many Muslim nations. What of it? That is what the people want. Israel is a theocracy, providing special treatment for Jews in the Jewish state while pretending to be a democracy. At least the Muslims are honest about it. I know the differences and I don't need you to cherry pick what you deem is better about one fundie over another to persuade me to think like you do. Like I said, I view both as EQUALLY unsavory. Your broad generalizations don't change that, nor does your comparative analysis of turd world Muslim nations to the US. The self righteous closing does nothing to help your argument.
On the contrary, there is a vast difference between Government Sponsored and Private Citizen. We see it every day here in the US. In fact, people on 4um use that identical argument when discussing Israel. If suddenly we are to excuse Middle Eastern nations, then we also must excuse Israel and the United States. The same standard must apply across the board otherwise there are no standards and we must then excuse Israel and the United States. Not sure about anyone else but I am not willing to go there.
Where did I excuse stoning or any other bass ackwards practice? However, I do not see the value in an unequal comparative analysis. What is your solution to the ME theocracies? I see Israel as yet another theocracy pretending to be a democracy. I am applying the same standard across the board. Stop aiding the lot of them. As for Israel's neighbors, the current US protocol is to "liberate" them with bombs. How's that working out? Here in the US we should clean up our own backyards before we start telling other nations how to do it. We would make much greater strides by setting an example than by striving for empire. We should return to non intervention, no little allies, no funding and minding our own domestic business. Sitting on our American high horse and casting stones at other nations, isn't going to improve conditions anywhere.
I agree wholeheartedly, but I still maintain that there needs to be a single standard across the board for judging whether a nation is "civilized" or not and what behavior is deemed "acceptable" or not. Leave them alone, let them kill themselves off or make asses of themselves on the international stage. Works for me. But, I do want one exception carved out in the interest of fairness if we are going to leave them alone. If the Middle Eastern nations again attack Israel, as they did in the Six Day War, and we are not aiding them, then Israel gets to do whatever they want up to and including conquering the invading nations and keeping them. Likewise, the reverse. Should Israel decide to go invade, oh, I don't know, say, Iran, then the Iranians get to conquer Israel and keep it if they so choose. A grand lesson would be learned there, methinks, by everyone involved on both sides of that battle. Probably a lesson well worth being learned too.
#60. To: mirage (#59)
If the Middle Eastern nations again attack Israel I'm not judging any ME nation as "civilized" or not. By my standards, the US is no longer "civilized" in any sense of the word. Israel ATTACKS, and ATTACKS and ATTACKS. 1300 dead in Gaza, 300 CHILDREN. Those people don't even have a military. In 2006, bombing Lebanon back into the stone ages. Sheesh, mirage, this isn't 1967 all over again. And, let us NEVER forget that Israel attempted to sink the USS Liberty, a blatant WAR CRIME against the USA. We should have washed our hands of that nation right then and there. The entire world would be MUCH better off today had we done so. It's a fine time to allow Israel to stand on her own today, after we have provided hundereds of billions in military aid. We should have learned our lesson in 1967........then we wouldn't be facing WW3 today when Israel ATTACKS and ATTACKS then whines that the world is out to get them.
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#2. To: Eric Stratton (#1)
Following the example of Jesus by sticking a finger in the eye of sinners.
#5. To: abraxas (#2)
#7. To: Eric Stratton (#5)
As well, I'm disturbed by the proliferation of formal Islam in the states, but largely only because our FedGov, largely initiated under Junior, and now continued under Hussein, is pushing it.
#29. To: abraxas (#7)
In many ways, the Muslims have a modesty that Christians might want to aspire to regain.
How about the underwear bomber exposing himself in public as he did?
#30. To: mirage (#29)
#31. To: abraxas (#30)
#32. To: mirage (#31)
Problem: There are presently many MANY more "Fundamentalist" Muslims than there are "Fundamentalist" Christians.
#33. To: abraxas (#32)
The difference is that the Fundie Muslims will blow themselves up to make a point, taking many innocents with them.
#54. To: mirage (#33)
However, judicial disfigurements and stonings will continue in the Islamic world.
#55. To: abraxas (#54)
#56. To: mirage (#55)
when he goes off the reservation, is disowned by his own kind and punished appropriately.
#57. To: abraxas (#56)
The self righteous closing does nothing to help your argument.
#58. To: mirage (#57)
If suddenly we are to excuse Middle Eastern nations
#59. To: abraxas (#58)
Here in the US we should clean up our own backyards before we start telling other nations how to do it. We would make much greater strides by setting an example than by striving for empire. ... Stop aiding the lot of them.
Replies to Comment # 59. I still maintain that there needs to be a single standard across the board for judging whether a nation is "civilized" or not and what behavior is deemed "acceptable" or not
End Trace Mode for Comment # 59.