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Title: Lou Dobbs Discusses ‘Anchor Babies’ With Megyn Kelly, But Defends 14th Amendment
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URL Source: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/lou-dobb ... y-but-defends-14th-ammendment/
Published: Aug 2, 2010
Author: by Colby Hall
Post Date: 2010-08-02 20:52:43 by HAPPY2BME-4UM
Ping List: *Illegal Immigration* Subscribe to *Illegal Immigration*
Keywords: SB1070
Views: 402
Comments: 45
A lot hay has been made by cable pundits and right of center politician of late, regarding the issue of the 14th Amendment, which essential claims that any child born in the United States is automatically a naturalized citizen, regardless of the immigration status of their parents. Recently Senators Lindsey Graham and John Kyl have considered eliminating birthright citizenship, which is the exact sort of controversy custom-made for cable news programming! Et Voilà – today Fox News host Megyn Kelly and Lou Dobbs discussed this very issue! When he had his 7PM program on CNN, Dobbs was such a vocal critic of an ineffective illegal immigration, that some even criticized his rhetoric and passion as “jingoistic.” So its somewhat surprising that Dobbs (and to a lesser extent Kelly) come out against the opposition of the 14th Amendment, while also admitting the core problem with so-called “anchor babies” (the derisive term used to described naturalized citizens born to illegal immigrants. Lou Dobbs Discusses ‘Anchor Babies’ With Megyn Kelly, But Defends 14th Amendment
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#1. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#0)
the real problem is not anchor babies, but the fact that employers to this day can easily hire as many illegal immigrants as they want with no penalty at all from the government. I don't watch Lou Dobbs, but I'd be surprised if he focuses people's minds on that simple fact. Puppets in the media (like Lou Dobbs) and republican politicians try to tell us that all will be well when we 'get control of the border' by putting huge resources onto it and at the same time allow 'guest workers'. Guest workers are just semi-slaves, think of them as indentured servants which were a pre-cursor for outright slavery. But equally urgent for the cause of justice is the plight of the illegals who have been here for years and put down roots, yet may not be allowed to stay under reasonable conditions. I'm with Ronald Reagan, I think that if a person has lived in this country for any length of time and held a job, then we should not only let them stay, but let them be citizens without being guest workers first. The illegals were invited here in 1986 by republican legislation that took all penalties from employers for hiring them. When the government decides to pass laws giving harm to the employers for hiring illegals, then that is when they will not be welcome here. An illegal immigrant working here and living here can be given great harm either by state law enforcement or federal law enforcement. But the employer is not harmed. In Arizona we have laws that penalize employers for hiring illegals. It is very difficult for employers to get caught in that trap. And if they are caught the penalties are very light. They escalate if you're caught more than once. I read in the paper about one employer who was caught 3 times. and they were caught hiring people that they knew were illegal, people whom the government had told them were illegal, they hired anyway. That company had to shut down its operations for 1 day after being caught the 3'rd time. I am 100% certain that many employers in Arizona hire illegal immigrants every single day even today. I am 100% certain that they generally have no fear of the law at all. Consider a person whom I know. He first came here in 1991 from Mexico. He became a very valuable person for his employer. His employer knows he's illegal, but they keep him anyway and they hire lots of his friends even today as new employees. He brought his family to Arizona from Mexico. He tried to get them to live here. But he found hostility to his family. that was unacceptable, he sent them home. and so 80% of his paycheck goes to Mexico. The Republicans would turn that fellow into an indentured servant and not let him ever be free. The Democrats as we know will go along with anything the republicans want. It is very easy for the government to identify all illegals who get paychecks from employers. Most illegals work for paychecks and the taxes are withheld. For all the illegals who have been here even for a while and held a job we should simply make them choose between a road to US citizenship or else a one-way trip back to where they came. And we should likewise penalize employers who hire new illegals. But the existing illegals should be given the opportunity for citizenship. If they reject that opportunity which would include a renunciation of their previous citizenship, then they should be sent home. but contrary to what these idiot republicans and their democrat friends want, we should not have indentured servants in our country. The guest workers will be de-facto indentured servants. It is an affront to our values to have indentured servants here. It drives wages down and destroys our economy. We learned that in pre-1865 southern states. Employers will always favor indentured servants who can't quit. Just like they will always prefer slaves who can't quit. That was proven in the old south. and it did not benefit the economy of the old south. When factories were made in the south the labor was always slave labor. Because business people could not imagine that free labor would be better than slave labor. Free labor though it cost more was better than slave labor. Slavery in 1800's old south was a lost cause in that the slaves were not productive. and yet they clung to it. The same drama is being repeated today. We need guest workers to solve all of our problems because we don't have enough illegal immigrants. Free labor only - please!
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
This is sarcasm, right? We have more than enough illegal aliens! And why would a country with something like 20% unemployment--real numbers, not the fictitious 10% that the government claims--"need" guest workers? Maybe when all Americans who want to work and will work have jobs and there are plenty of jobs to go around, maybe then some "guest workers" might be needed. But not as long as Americans are out of work.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. yes, of course, that is sarcasm. My problem is that I live in Arizona. I live to republican politicians who are prominent here. They are the ones who say that we must solve the illegal immigration problem by replacing them with guest workers. I don't say that, but they make that exact argument. Anybody who has significant experience with the US mass media knows that it is a show, they pick issues and make a soap opera out of them. a soap opera with no substance for serious citizens interested in doing the right thing. A soap opera to distract and manipulate only. We have this law in Arizona (SB1070 it is called) that is controversial. Many cities such as Los Angeles and Sacramento and others have passed resolutions saying that they won't spend money in our state. because arizona is racist they say due to this law. our republican politicians have not passed a law to penalize employers for hiring illegals. They passed such a law a couple of years ago, but now that it has been in effect for 2 years we see that it is a meaningless law. The penalties are very hard to incur and they are also very light. The employers are ignoring that law. but republicans keep saying endlessly that we must get control of the border, put huge resources there. The mexicans will merely tunnel under the border. How long is that border? 2,000 miles? why don't the republicans pass laws to penalize employers for hiring illegals. Why are the republicans so eager for guest workers. I agree with you - it is insane to even speak of guest workers with the high unemployment we have. They are sick. the employers who hire the illegals are no different from slave-owners of pre-1865 south. There were a small percentage of people in the old south who really excelled at owning slaves. They loved it. and a few of them abused the slaves horribly. They did this because they were legally allowed to do so. Today it is the same, you can hire illegals if you want. and the laws are to be changed we're told to make guest workers permanent. I wish we could use free labor only. The historical track record is that free labor is good for the economy and slave labor is not. If you don't believe me, then please explain why it was that in pre-1865 america all the factories went to the north where the more expensive free labor was used. Some people (republicans) think the economy works best with low wages. But this is not true, we are more prosperous with high wages. and when you push people's wages down there is a multiplier effect whereby other parts of the GDP go down when those employees spend less and this smaller spending reverberates in the economy. My sarcasm comes from listening to Senator McCain tell us we need to get control of the border and have guest workers. This same McCain does not want to penalize employers in a meaningful way for hiring illegals.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Thank you for all your comments. All true. Divert the attention away from the cause of the problem, and the problem continues to grow unabated. As is the invasion from Mexico. Reduce resistance to the invasion to a dull background noise and the problem goes away. Money in the bank for the enablers and an endless supply of slaves. PROBLEM: Americans want those jobs.
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
I want to be very clear with people - that because of my long-term experience in the construction industry here in Arizona I am 100% certain that many employers hire illegals every single day even now. There are construction sub-contractors that have thousands of employees with a large portion being illegal immigrants. there are no real penalties that these employers face. Someone like John McCain will not even distinguish between an illegal who has been here for 20 years, filled a significant job, had a family here with his kids going through our schools and another person who might come here tomorrow illegally to get hired. John McCain wants employers to be able to hire people who come here today for the first time. and he wants to jail people who've done the work for 20 years and have kids here. That is insane. For a person here in Phoenix where illegals are extremely common we are supposed to look at our neighbors who have kids in the local school and tell them that they are criminals and should be jailed. But if a new illegal were to come here tomorrow Senator McCain wants no penalties to employers who hire them. and if you ask Senator McCain about it he will say we need guest workers. He wants the semi-slaves to come here. He just doesn't want them to be free. A society is not free unless workers are able to quit their employers and seek work elsewhere. Senator McCain wants a very significant portion of our work force to be non-free. Republicans (and also over on TPF discussion forum) they think that driving wages down is good for society. If we want prosperity, then we should use free labor and we should trade among ourselves rather than import when we can't afford to buy the imports. Today there is a huge gap between our imports and our exports. All of that gap is made up by borrowing money. This is very bad for our long-term welfare. We should produce ourselves and not be so eager to trade. Why is it that Republicans simply can't see that? And why is it that Democrats feel so compelled to agree with the republicans?? Suicide for our nation is OK, but changing our trade policies is not OK.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
That's not what it says. It has been twisted into that.
Name calling is juvenile.
Anchor Babies: Is Citizenship an Entitled Birthright? The 14th Amendment was added to the Constitution as part of the post Civil War reforms aimed at addressing injustices to African Americans. It states that "all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States" and was crafted so that state governments could never deny citizenship to anyone born in the United States. However, when the amendment was crafted, the United States had no immigration policy, and thus the authors saw no need to state explicitly, what they believed was understood. The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude from automatic citizenship American-born persons whose allegiance to the United States was not complete. In the case of illegal aliens who are temporarily or unlawfully in the United States, because their native country has a claim of allegiance to the child, the completeness of the allegiance to the United States is impaired and logically precludes automatic citizenship. "Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. Name calling is juvenile.
The American Resistance The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads in part: Babies born to illegal alien mothers within U.S. borders are called anchor babies because under the 1965 immigration Act, they act as an anchor that pulls the illegal alien mother and eventually a host of other relatives into permanent U.S. residency. (Jackpot babies is another term). The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 to protect the rights of native-born Black Americans, whose rights were being denied as recently-freed slaves. In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard clearly spelled out the intent of the 14th Amendment by writing: The original intent of the 14th Amendment was clearly not to facilitate illegal aliens defying U.S. law at taxpayer expense. Current estimates indicate there may be over 300,000 anchor babies born each year in the U.S., thus causing illegal alien mothers to add more to the U.S. population each year than immigration from all sources in an average year before 1965. The correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment is that an illegal alien mother is subject to the jurisdiction of her native country, as is her baby. Over a century ago, the Supreme Court correctly confirmed this restricted interpretation of citizenship in the so-called 'Slaughter-House cases' [83 US 36 (1873)] and in [112 US 94 (1884)]. In Elk v.Wilkins, the phrase 'subject to its jurisdiction' excluded from its operation 'children of ministers, consuls, and citizens of foreign states born within the United States.' In Elk, the American Indian claimant was considered not an American citizen because the law required him to be 'not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them direct and immediate allegiance.' Congress subsequently passed a special act to grant full citizenship to American Indians, who were not citizens even through they were born within the borders of the United States. The Citizens Act of 1924, codified in 8USCSß1401, provides that: American citizens must be wary of elected politicians voting to illegally extend our generous social benefits to illegal aliens and other criminals.
"Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. Thanks, Red. I have a neighbor who works four construction crews in four states. Five years ago, he swore he would NEVER hire illegal aliens. Today, almost all his crews are illegal aliens who came up with coyotes, went to the closest consulates, got their green cards, then their DL. He explained it to me that he could not stay in competitive business and work American crews because of the scale differential between what he pays Americans and illegal aliens. I understand his method, and why he does it. Thousands of contractors across the country have gone with this trend, and frankly have sponsored millions of illegal aliens throughout the country this way. He knows I don't condone what he does, and if the labor pool wasn't so flooded with illegal aliens, he and most other contractors would prefer to hire Americans if they could. I'm certain you can agree with this reality. It is not just in Arizona, but coast-coast and border-border.
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
Guest workers? We don't need any foreign workers in the USA period. Never have needed them. Never will need them. They are only brought here by traitors to the USA. American is being destroyed by a bunch of bankers and not a single shot is being fired in their direction. Patriotism is only for cannon fodder and mind numb robots that blame Muslims for 9/11. It is not for the bankers destroying America. And some people think fluoride in the drinking water and mercury fillings in teeth are harmless. It has turned the collective American public into a bunch of idiots who can't think for themselves!
God is always good!
Then it is time for him to close his flunky business down. Hiring illegals is a crime. If he can't compete without being a criminal, then his business should be closed down.
God is always good!
i'm sure you know to whom these traitors are beholdin' and the agenda they're promulgating.
Then it is time for him to close his flunky business down. Hiring illegals is a crime. If he can't compete without being a criminal, then his business should be closed down. ========================================= We're dealing with reality here. There are tens of thousands of businesses across the country locked into the embedded underground economy that simply will NOT be in business if they cannot use illegal alien labor from Mexico to operate with. The implications are very far reaching. These contractors are in direct violation of federal immigration laws and each and every one of them knows it. KICKER: THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT KNOWS IT BETTER THAN ANYONE *AND OPENLY PROMOTES IT BY *NOT* PROSECUTING THESE CONTRACTORS Red, are you still here?
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
Reasonable people can conclude that the illegal alien invasion is doing irreparable harm to much of the southwest both directly and indirectly. A nation without borders is no longer a nation. Construction contractors hiring illegals should be arrested, tried and incarcerated for a year for the first offense. The unregulated invasion from all over South America is frought with issues negatively impacting the entire country, not just Phoenix, or San Diego. Crime and disease are serious enough but when these invading forces start threatening lawmen with assassination it's time to terminate them. Americans are generally peace lovers that simply wish to live their own lives and raise their own children in a tranquil environment. Those hiring illegals are forcing others to pay the deficiencies in wages through taxes, increased insurance costs, increased medical costs and in many instances are forcing others out of business / jobs to save their own. There is a solution and it isn't amnesty. Those requiring seasonal migrant labor should be allowed every reasonable opportunity to have them as soon as they are vetted. This shouldn't create anchor babies nor voting rights. I don't think construction is an area where illegals should be allowed until we're certain these are jobs Americans won't do because I think they will do them. And lastly, the economic conditions in America with respect to housing costs prevent some Americans from taking jobs that will leave them short of the ability to pay the mortgage or rent. The mass invasion is dangerous to the safety and security of the nation, period. The thought of an American Sheriff or other lawman being assassinated could lead to an actual war with Mexico. (And that may not be a bad idea.)
"It is unfortunately none too well understood that, just as the State has no money of its own, so it has no power of its own. All power it has is what society gives it, plus what it confiscates from time to time on one pretext or another; there is no other source from which State power can be drawn.” Albert Jay Nock
The 14th Amendment didn't free anyone nor did it give rights to the disenfranchised ... its use enslaved EVERYONE claiming it !
"It is unfortunately none too well understood that, just as the State has no money of its own, so it has no power of its own. All power it has is what society gives it, plus what it confiscates from time to time on one pretext or another; there is no other source from which State power can be drawn.” Albert Jay Nock
14th Amendment Citizenship: Citizen or citizen? U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
here in Phoenix Americans generally are excluded from doing construction jobs. Many of the trades contractors started hiring illegals more than 20 years ago. I keep explaining that in 1986 the federal gov passed legislation laying out a procedure by which employers could hire illegals without penalty to themselves. In the early 1980's we had very few ethnic mexicans working in the field in construction here in Phoenix. the jobs in those days were done by Americans and pay after adjusting for inflation was much much higher than today. In the 1990's all the work in the field was eventually done by Mexicans. Most trade contractors are at near 100% mexican employees in the field. Some are only 60-70% mexican. An American will face severe racial persecution trying to work those jobs. It is not that most of the Mexicans wish to persecute. but there are some who do. And it only takes some. The Mexicans are not against the idea of racial persecution against Americans. And when a few of them insist on doing it, the rest will generally go along. Many of the trade-contractors do not even e-verify. when this is the case they are hiring illegals freely. The successful trade contractors frequently use a strategy of employing the cheapest labor they can. and this means they will use illegals. There are skilled construction workers today in Phoenix working at under $10/hour. When you consider the cost of living and the cost of traveling to the job, then this is an outrage. and yet nobody cares. My fellow Americans tell me we need guest workers. The governor (brewer) comes on tv and says we need to get tough on the border and have guest workers. Senator McCain, JD Hayworth and another republican were in a debate for the republican primary for US Senate. All 3 lectured extensively that we need lots of military/police on the border and we need guest workers. Even democrat politicians here in Arizona come on tv and say that we need to get tough on the border and have guest workers. after they make the guest workers legal I would say that any employer who wants cheap people who can't quit will use that source. I think the entire construction industry will decide that Americans don't want to work and go the guest worker route. Lucky us. We have leaders who wish to destroy us. I won't turn the illegals in to Sheriff Joe's office because they would be penalized very badly and the employers would not be penalized at all. That is a reality that every American should deal with. Why are there no penalties to employers who hire them? no significant penalties. In the early 1990's 3 things happened in Mexico to push them up here. 1 - they devalued the peso by about 75%. 2 - the mexican money supply was contracted very dramatically right at the time when they devalued the peso. 3 - they allowed US corn to be sold in Mexico without a tariff. The US grown grain is heavily subsidized by the government. 40% of all money that US grain farmers receives comes from government subsidy. This pushed 25 million mexicans off of small farms that they had previously farmed. I have a hard time understanding why my fellow Americans want guest workers and why they don't want to penalize employers for hiring illegals. I also have a hard time comprehending why it is that so many people say send illegals home who have families here and have held jobs for years, but at the same time these very people want the employers to have a permanent unlimited pipeline of guest workers to feed their needs. We are a people who don't even believe that we can do our own work for ourselves. Is that dysfunctional or what? many of the trades contractors do not even advertise on english speaking sources when they want to hire people. When they hire people it is 100% mexican. and when Americans go by to apply, their applications are merely taken. There are many companies who simply will not hire even one American to work in the field. and when an American does get to the field, there are sometimes persecutions. The hourly compensation to construction workers today after inflation is I feel less than half what it was in 1980. Also, back in 1980 they were almost all Americans working in the field. Today it is virtually all Mexican. and what has happened. Home prices went sky-high. Building materials prices have sky-rocketed. I remember between 1989 and 1993 the price of lumber went up by over 300% just in that time frame. Concrete, steel and other materials have just sky-rocketed. Land prices all surrounding the metro area are now unbelievably high. things have been managed in a fashion as to destroy us. and it has been done out of greed. love of money.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
=========================================== Quite a profound reality. The generation of young adults now have been programmed in believing they either can't do manual labor or blue collar skills or that it is below them and that they should get a "Mexican" to do it for them. The problems are many, and lie within public education and organized religion. Organized religion and public education are the two largest sponsors and enablers of illegal immigration from Mexico.
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
=================================== You nailed it: GREED Good insight, Red.
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
There is a solution and it isn't amnesty. Those requiring seasonal migrant labor should be allowed every reasonable opportunity to have them as soon as they are vetted. This shouldn't create anchor babies nor voting rights. bingo
How was the concert ???
"It is unfortunately none too well understood that, just as the State has no money of its own, so it has no power of its own. All power it has is what society gives it, plus what it confiscates from time to time on one pretext or another; there is no other source from which State power can be drawn.” Albert Jay Nock
absolutely awesome. a 3 hr high energy powerful performance. Melissa and her band are great musicians. she's very personable too. my son's gf and i had a blast though we were somewhat taken aback by the 90% lesbian audience. we were shocked at the number of fatty bulldykes.
They're a national treasure if you're looking for SCOTUS nominees
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
I accidentally walked into a fatty bulldyke bar years ago when I drove a taxi and after my eyes adjusted to the darkness I realized I was being sent Death Ray looks. And they had pool sticks!
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
laughing..very true.
I lived in San Diego until 1996 and knew of many drywall hangers and kitchen workers that lost their jobs to illegals. There was also an influx of Arabs that landed in the car business. The target is the white middle class. We have 300 million Americans in America and that's quite enough to sustain an economy. The proposition that we're interdependent now or need third worlders to support our economy demands we inquire as to the overall cost our society really pays, and I don't see the bargain. The more global we become the less we become ... it's time for us to re- evaluate the situation and make the reforms necessary to keep those companies wishing to retain America's consumers in this country or stop buying their junk. America 1st.
"It is unfortunately none too well understood that, just as the State has no money of its own, so it has no power of its own. All power it has is what society gives it, plus what it confiscates from time to time on one pretext or another; there is no other source from which State power can be drawn.” Albert Jay Nock
I agree whole-heartedly. The 'America First' movement after WW2 here in our country was a very noble group of people. They were conservatives. We've been propagandized in a manner that we think negatively about them. But all they wanted was for the US government to primarily mind our nation's interests and not get involved around the world. they were against war, conquest and empire. They were in favor of prosperity for our people and doing no harm to others. The world would be so much better off, we would be so much more prosperous and hardly anyone around the world would hate us if our nation was dominated by such thinking.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
What can you expect from McCain the Manchurian? He is a communist through and through. Only he believes that, as one of the elite and "smarter than everyone else" that he should have all the goodies he wants while everyone else shares what's left (if anything). All most communists want other people to share is poverty and misery.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Great post, thanks for the ping.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I agree with you. Few people seem to be aware that when John McCain was a POW in north vietnam he did at least 21 propaganda interviews to his captors. John McCain gave interviews broadcast all over vietnam and elsewhere even where he spoke strong anti-American sentiments. I don't blame John McCain for breaking and doing propaganda interviews. but I do object that he is raised up as some kind of a war hero over his experience. He broke very quickly and easily. Whereas other men resisted strongly. and some died in their resistance. A large number of American POWs who we know were in North Vietnam did not come back. I mean like perhaps over 1,000 Americans were confirmed alive in North Vietnamese camps and yet did not come back. Only about 800 came back. I'm loyal to those Americans who were there and were tortured and tried their best not to break and to those who never came home. I'm not loyal to the prima-dona who broke almost right away and then came home and in 1990 was in a position of power in Washington and decided that we would abandon those other 1,000 men who did not come home. because my father was a US Army officer for 30 years when I was a child I knew many men who served in vietnam. I witnessed a wife being informed by the US army that her husband was shot down, and that particular man never did come back, he was one who was identified in the camp as being alive, but never came home. So many Americans like to pretend that McCain is a war hero. Yet that is insane. None of us blame him for breaking. but he broke so easily. He not only said anti-american things in the interviews, he gave information that had military value. real military value and americans likely died from it. while so many others resisted strongly and paid a severe price for it, we cannot in good conscience raise up John McCain. by making him a congressman, then a senator, then a presidential candidate we have raised up John McCain. Because of his performance as a POW we should not have done that. I remember meeting John McCain in person when he first was running for congress in 1982. and John McCain's father intervened when the USS Liberty was under attack in 1967. Admiral McCain personally got the president (LBJ) to stop the US Navy from going to the aid of the USS Liberty. Let us recall that 35 americans died in that attack, and that a very strong effort was made to sink the USS Liberty. Admiral McCain (John McCain's father) was a traitor on that day. McCain comes from a family of traitors, plain and simple.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Ha! You went to a Melissa Etheridge concert and didn't expect to see it jam packed with lesbos? LOL!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Those are good points. I sure don't think ill of them and agree with their philosophy.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I have never thought of McCain as a hero. I reckon he was an ace pilot though (for Vietnam). Didn't he crash about five of our planes? As I recall taking out five of the enemies planes qualifies you as an ace pilot. And McCain has proven, over and over, that he is an enemy of America.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I read about McCain's military record. He was allowed to be a pilot because of his father. He was very marginal in the aptitude department for flying. that is what the navy concluded during his training. the military only allows high-aptitude people to be pilots. If his dad was not an admiral, then he would not have been a pilot. he had an unusual knack for destroying the planes he flew. Almost no pilot in the navy did what he did. As you said I think it was 5 jets that were destroyed when he was piloting them. Some of those incidents were chalked up to complete incompetence and carelessness. One of them was on a pleasure trip that he was taking with a US Navy jet. and then there is the incident on board the aircraft carrier a few weeks before he was shot down over North Vietnam. I saw a special on tv about that about 20 years ago. They had a video taken on the aircraft carrier that I saw. He climbed into the jet, he made a mistake and mistakenly set off a missile. He immediately jumped out of the jet, opening the cockpit up and bolting out, down to the deck and ran immediately without saying a word to safey. As soon as he got past the door to a protected area the huge explosion occurred. and all of the men in the video except McCain were killed. I saw the video. He made no effort to save anyone's life but his own. OTOH if he had been slow in his retreat, he would've died himself. Its not everyone that causes an accident that kills over 150 of his co-workers. There were people in the navy who concluded after investigation that it was McCain's fault. him hot-dogging is what caused it. He thought it would be fun to gun the engine and cause flame to come out of the back because a buddy of his was in the jet behind him. It was against procedure what McCain did. and over 150 people died from it. the tv special I saw about that incident on the aircraft carrier was 20 years ago. The video made McCain look very bad. There were people on that aircraft carrier who wanted to murder John McCain over it, that is why he was transferred out. In modern times you cannot find the same negative info about that incident on the internet. There has been a whitewash. The video they show of the incident is very different from the one I saw 20 years ago. The narrator on the documentary I saw said the navy blamed John McCain for the accident. and in modern times you can't find any such document. that was one of the 5 jets McCain piloted that was destroyed. but many other jets were also destroyed.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I remember reading about that incident. It was on the Forrestal (sp?), wasn't it?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. yes, you triggered my memory. It was on the USS Forrestal. former crew of the USS Forestal used to follow McCain on the campaign trail in an effort to embarass him. they would stand up while he was speaking and begin to speak themselves about what happened on the Forrestal. current.com/news/89438038...re-that-left-168-dead.htm I can't find on the internet the video that I saw 20 years ago. It made McCain look very bad. and the videos of the incident you can find now do not do that. McCain was in the cockpit and did a hot-dog stunt that caused the accident. McCain heard a noise inside of his cockpit where he knew with 100% certainty that a huge explosion was about to occur. He bolted out of the cockpit and ran very fast to safety. He made no effort to save anyone but himself. the camera recording it was right next to the door where safety was. McCain for that door. as soon as he got past it - a huge explosion occurred and everyone who was near was killed. There are web sites today that obfuscate and confuse what happened. they act like it wasn't McCain's fault. but it was. if our nation was to make a person a prominent politician and presidential candidate, then we should avoid doing that with a person who has the type of military record that McCain has. He was like you said, an ace pilot for the other side, destroying 5 jets he piloted. He accidentally killed 168 Americans doing a procedure that he was told not to do. He broke under torture almost immediately whereas everybody else resisted, some of them until death. He gave militarily valuable information to the enemy that cost American lives. This is his track record. Only our enemies will raise up such a man and put him on a pedestal. Our enemies who rule our country have done that.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Yes, your account of what McCain did on the Forrestal matches up with what I read about it a long time ago. I don't know how a man could live with himself, how his conscience would ever let him see a minute's peace after something like that. But then, sociopaths don't have consciences so maybe that is why it doesn't bother him.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. yes, that is very true. what I found unusual about the video of McCain in that incident was that he made absolutely zero effort to save other people's lives and instead only his own. He wasn't yelling to others to get clear while he himself was running away. He had one and only one purpose - save himself. and in the interview I saw he said that. I thought that a normal person would at least try to shout a warning. He did not do that. On the other hand, if he had put forth any effort to save others, then he himself would have likely died. He went behind the door to safety and IMMEDIATELY his jet blew up. That was the video I saw. and the videos I see today on the internet do not really match it.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
You are most welcome.
"Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. Never be surprised when there are a bunch of "bull dieguls" at a concert headed up by a lesbo.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
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#2. To: Red Jones (#1)
We need guest workers to solve all of our problems because we don't have enough illegal immigrants.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#3. To: James Deffenbach (#2)
This is sarcasm, right?
#4. To: Red Jones (#1)
#5. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#4)
#6. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#0)
A lot hay has been made by cable pundits and right of center politician of late, regarding the issue of the 14th Amendment, which essential claims that any child born in the United States is automatically a naturalized citizen, regardless of the immigration status of their parents.
#7. To: Red Jones, HAPPY2BME-4UM, James Deffenbach, (#1)
Senator Jacob Howard, Co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, 1866.
#8. To: Red Jones, HAPPY2BME-4UM, James Deffenbach, (#7)
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside."
"Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe.
Senator Jacob Howard, Co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, 1866.
#9. To: Red Jones (#3)
#10. To: Red Jones (#1)
We need guest workers to solve all of our problems because we don't have enough illegal immigrants.
#11. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#9)
He explained it to me that he could not stay in competitive business and work American crews because of the scale differential between what he pays Americans and illegal aliens.
#12. To: Red Jones (#5)
Why is it that Republicans simply can't see that? And why is it that Democrats feel so compelled to agree with the republicans??
#13. To: RickyJ, Red Jones (#11)
He explained it to me that he could not stay in competitive business and work American crews because of the scale differential between what he pays Americans and illegal aliens.
#14. To: Red Jones (#5)
#15. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#0)
#16. To: noone222 (#15)
(Edited)
Post Date: 2010-08-03 08:44:38 by HAPPY2BME-4UM
#17. To: noone222 (#14)
I don't think construction is an area where illegals should be allowed until we're certain these are jobs Americans won't do because I think they will do them.
#18. To: Red Jones (#17)
We are a people who don't even believe that we can do our own work for ourselves. Is that dysfunctional or what?
#19. To: Red Jones (#17)
things have been managed in a fashion as to destroy us. and it has been done out of greed. love of money.
#20. To: noone222 (#14)
Those hiring illegals are forcing others to pay the deficiencies in wages through taxes, increased insurance costs, increased medical costs and in many instances are forcing others out of business / jobs to save their own.
#21. To: christine (#20)
#22. To: noone222 (#21)
#23. To: christine, ME fans, 4 (#22)
#24. To: christine (#22)
we were shocked at the number of fatty bulldykes.
#25. To: christine (#22)
fatty bulldykes.
#26. To: Flintlock (#24)
#27. To: Red Jones (#17)
#28. To: noone222 (#27)
America 1st.
#29. To: Red Jones (#3)
My sarcasm comes from listening to Senator McCain tell us we need to get control of the border and have guest workers. This same McCain does not want to penalize employers in a meaningful way for hiring illegals.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#30. To: farmfriend (#8)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#31. To: James Deffenbach (#29)
What can you expect from McCain the Manchurian?
#32. To: christine (#22)
we were somewhat taken aback by the 90% lesbian audience.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#33. To: Red Jones (#28)
We've been propagandized in a manner that we think negatively about them. But all they wanted was for the US government to primarily mind our nation's interests and not get involved around the world. they were against war, conquest and empire. They were in favor of prosperity for our people and doing no harm to others. The world would be so much better off, we would be so much more prosperous and hardly anyone around the world would hate us if our nation was dominated by such thinking.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#34. To: Red Jones (#31)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#35. To: James Deffenbach (#34)
#36. To: Red Jones (#35)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#37. To: James Deffenbach (#36)
#38. To: Red Jones (#37)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#39. To: James Deffenbach (#38)
how his conscience would ever let him see a minute's peace after something like that.
#40. To: James Deffenbach (#30)
thanks for the ping.
Senator Jacob Howard, Co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, 1866.
#41. To: christine (#22)
we were shocked at the number of fatty bulldykes.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
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