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Title: Arizona: A “Revolutionary” Line in the Sand?
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CanadaFreePress.com
URL Source: http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/26124
Published: Aug 4, 2010
Author: Doug Hagmann
Post Date: 2010-08-04 10:10:35 by Eric Stratton
Keywords: None
Views: 1690
Comments: 144
Arizona: A “Revolutionary” Line in the Sand? I believe that history will show that the passage of SB 1070 by Arizona, and the federal government’s lawsuit to stop its implementation will be regarded the first battle of the 21st century American Revolution. Although not a single shot was fired- yet, the battle lines have clearly been drawn. Never before in the modern history of our country have all of the elements been in place for a war between our government and the citizenry of the United States. We stand at a proverbial and historic flashpoint as Obama plans to use the foot soldiers created by “comprehensive immigration reform,” whether achieved by law or mandate, to implement his socialist agenda for America. Transforming the United States into a socialist nation While the process of transforming the America known by our parents and grandparents to a socialist colony has been in progress for a half-century at the hands of Marxists, Socialists and Progressives, the Obama administration has put the Balkanization of America and the polarization of its citizens along racial, political and ideological lines on the fast track. And at least for now, he’s got the backing of Congress to advance his agenda of radical change. That was never so evident than on May 20th when the dictator of a corrupt, third world country was given a sickening, treasonous standing ovation in the halls of Congress for attacking the proposed legislation of an American sovereign state to uphold the laws of our country. Regardless of whatever legislative support he might currently enjoy, evidence has shown that he is actively considering a back door strategy that would circumvent the need for congressional approval. More importantly, it would also circumvent the need for approval from the citizens of the U.S. Once in place, the amnesty of millions of illegal aliens in the U.S. would create a formidable electoral force to keep the Progressives in power under the pretext of free elections. The talk of altruistic motives of immigration and the joys and benefits of multiculturalism is nothing more than a smokescreen for power and control on the path to transforming the United States into a socialist nation. Hart-Celler Act, Chain Migration To understand how we got to this point in our national history, the groundwork for the transformation of our country was laid in 1965 with the passage of the Hart-Celler Act, which was signed into law by then President Lyndon Johnson. As Mark Levin details in his best-selling book Liberty and Tyranny, that single piece of legislation, as part of the Great Society, laid “the foundation for radically altering the character of American society and the relationship of the governed to their government.” During the debate of the bill on the floor of the Senate, Levin noted that Senator Kennedy insisted that the ethnic mix of the U.S. would not be changed, nor would America be inundated with immigrants from any one country or area.” In his assessment of the debate, Mark Levin wrote “it is hard to believe that they were not intentionally deceiving the public.” Indeed. That bill caused a significant change in immigration that essentially created the current situation in the U.S. It introduced “chain migration,” which radically altered the “historical basis for making immigration decisions.” As written by Mr. Levin, “The emphasis would no longer be on the preservation of American society and the consent of the governed; now aliens themselves would decide who comes to the United States through family reunification (emphasis mine). The act also eliminated national quotas for immigration, opening the floodgates for immigrants from Mexico, Central and South America. Consider that as a result of the 1965 immigration reform and deliberate lack of immigration enforcement, nearly 1 in 3 immigrants living in the U.S. today is here illegally. Additionally, legal immigration increased from 2.5 million in the 1950’s to over 10 million in the 1990’s. In 2007, the immigrant population in the U.S. reached a record 37.9 million and today accounts for 1 in 8 of all U.S. residents. In contrast, immigrants accounted for 1 in 21 of all U.S. residents in 1970. 9 percent of the population of Mexico resides in the United States According to a 2004 report by the Pew Hispanic Center and detailed in Liberty and Tyranny, roughly 9 percent of the population of Mexico resides in the United States. Fifty seven percent of all illegal immigrants are Mexican, and another 24 percent are from other Latin American countries. In less than 40 years, it is estimated that Hispanic school-aged children will comprise the majority of public school students in the U.S. While many proponents of immigration argue that the immigrants are here to assimilate and contribute to the United States, a 2008 study by the Manhattan Institute determined that the current level of assimilation is at a record low. Perhaps this is most evident by the fact that more than 55 million individuals living in the U.S. speak a language other than English, including over 34 million who speak Spanish. It is evident that assimilation is not a priority. The establishment of ethnic conclaves within the U.S. is an example of the lack of desire to assimilate into the fabric of American society. In addition to the social and cultural effects of immigration as a whole, illegal immigrants are being aided by our own government in transferring money out of the United States. In 2006, illegal aliens sent an estimated $45 billion from the U.S. to their countries of origin. Last year, thanks to the assistance of the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury, Mexicans alone living and working in the U.S. transferred between $21.9 and $25 billion to the Mexican economy. Under the program called Directo a Mexico, U.S. commercial banks enable illegal aliens to transfer money through the Federal Reserve’s own automated clearinghouse, which is linked to the Mexican central bank Banco de Mexico. The illegal alien is also given an ATM card that can be used in Mexican banks in the event of their deportation. The outflow of U.S. dollars to Mexico The outflow of U.S. dollars to Mexico is second only to Mexico’s oil industry in the amount of revenue produced. It should be no wonder, then, that the Mexican government has no interest in working with U.S. authorities to secure our border or to enforce our immigration laws. In fact, it is the ultimate goal of the global elite to erase our borders and implement a “North American Union” as a step to achieving global governance. Illegal immigration is a big business, and not just for Mexico. It is estimated that $18-25 billion is spent by state governments on welfare programs to illegal aliens each year, and about $2.2 billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs for illegal aliens. And additional $2.5 billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. The drain on the American economy by individuals living illegally in the United States is a significant threat that will lead to our demise. There should be no doubt that illegal aliens also pose a security risk to our country. First and foremost, they are living and working in this country illegally—contrary to the laws of the United States. And contrary to the Progressive party line, the proponents of multiculturalism, and civil rights and advocacy organizations that subjugate the rights of Americans to their own agendas, crimes committed by illegal aliens are statistically higher than legal immigrants or U.S. citizens. In 2005, the Government Accountability Office released a study it conducted of 55,322 incarcerated illegal aliens. The study population averaged 8 arrests each. Ninety seven percent were arrested more than once, and 26% had over 11 arrests each. Each illegal alien averaged 13 separate offenses and 24% of those offenses were for drug crimes. About 12% were for murder, robbery, assault and sexually related crimes, and 21% of offenses were immigration offenses. Other offenses included property related offenses, traffic violations, fraud and obstruction of justice. Illegal aliens arrested for less serious crimes and released pending a hearing at a future date often fail to appear. According to US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, there were 557,762 fugitive alien cases were listed as “unsolved” at the end of 2008. Furthermore, illegal immigrants with extensive criminal records and multiple deportations are often permitted to remain in the U.S. by activist judges who are sympathetic to their plight. The rampant problem of illegal immigration can easily be solved not by creating new legislation or enacting a complex system of immigration reform. As we observed in the weeks leading up to the implementation of SB 1070 in Arizona as law, the mere threat of realistic enforcement was sufficient to cause an exodus of illegal aliens from that state. As illustrated by the incoherent ruling of a political hack legislating from the bench, Arizona’s attempt to secure their state was undermined in a crafty and carefully executed political ploy. It is no coincidence that the appeal process will extend beyond the November midterm elections. It is the political hubris of a socialist dictator imposing his agenda against the will of the majority of this country’s citizenry. National Council of La Raza, John McCain, Hillary Clinton The failure to effectively address the issue of illegal immigration is not limited to any one political party; many Republicans as well as a vast majority of Democrats are complicit in failing to secure America’s safety and sovereignty. Consider that the National Council of La Raza, the largest Hispanic advocacy group in the United States, honored Senator John McCain in 1999. During her presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton appointed a senior member of La Raza to her staff, and Obama appointed a La Raza leader as the director of the Office of Internal Affairs. Undoubtedly, this virulent pro-amnesty group enjoys a significant influence over public policy in American government. Funding of this group finds numerous foundations and individuals who espouse and promote a global ideology and “one world governance” over national sovereignty as key contributors. Despite the above statistics, those who demand immigration enforcement and the rule of law are often labeled as racists and xenophobes. American cities and states like Arizona are reeling from the adverse financial and social effects of illegal immigration and unfettered legal immigration. They lack help from the federal government, which is more intent on creating an electoral majority to ensure the continuation of their power to facilitate the socialist makeover and takeover of the United States. Obama and his justice department are siding with criminals against the citizens of America. Arizona is attempting to restore order to a system of chaos created by the federal government. Instead of welcoming the help and choosing to uphold the U.S. Constitution, the Obama administration is imposing a socialist dictatorship and has drawn a line in the Arizona sand. The question is now whether that line becomes “Ground Zero” for this century’s American Revolution—a fight against the Balkanization of our country, and the eradication of our borders, our sovereignty and ultimately, our nation. As noted by one Arizona Sheriff, “our own government has become our enemy.” The question is how, if and when law-abiding, patriotic American citizens will choose to engage that enemy. For the sake of our country, acceptance and acquiescence is not an option. Copyright © Douglas Hagmann Douglas Hagmann, founder & director of the Northeast Intelligence Network, and a multi-state licensed private investigative agency. Doug began using his investigative skills and training to fight terrorism and increase public awareness through his website.
By Doug Hagmann
August 3, 2010
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#24. To: James Deffenbach (#18)
(Edited)
no, letting the illegals become citizens will not balkanize our nation. It will unite us. e plurubus unum. But persecuting them will cause balkanization. The vast majority of the people who identify with the mexican heritage are not illegals. They are legal. They will stay here no matter what. Regarding the language thing - here is an interesting phenomenon. The illegal immigrants themselves all want to learn english and try to do so. Many are not successful. But their children always grow up speaking English. The problem with the language is simply that the local governments, the local schools and many big corporations that employ people are forcing people to speak spanish. If these institutions favored english as they should, then we'd have no problems whatsoever regarding language. English speaking people are being forced to speak spanish. You can't be an employee of the city of phoenix unless you make a personal committment to learn spanish and speak spanish over a period of time. They will fire you. The same is true inother cities and at big corporations. That is where the language conflict comes from. I have witnessed young people of Mexican heritage speaking unhappiness that they are being forced to speak spanish when they don't speak spanish. I've listened to parents say that their english speaking child sits in a public school where spanish is the only language spoken by the teachers. this balkanization is being imposed on us. It is not what the illegal immigrants even want. They enjoy the job advantages in that employers favor people who speak both languages, but even they don't go along with this balkanization. if you favor the republican solutions, then you favor guest workers. that will balkanize us because those people will be alienated from us because they will not be equals in their legal status. we as a people will gain nothing from that.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Yeah, and all the illegals here taking American jobs and living off the Americans who are working is just peachy keen. They are NOT "citizens," they are ILLEGAL ALIENS. What part of that do you not get? Why is it so hard for you to understand? Do you think you could go into Mexico without any paperwork, uninvited, and then work there, demand all kinds of benefits and protest against the government talking about how unfair they are to Americans? Try it and let us know how it works out for you.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Thank you, christine. And of course there is no way that America can take in everyone who wants to come. It is ridiculous to even suggest such a thing. It is even more ridiculous to plead the cause of people who pay no attention to the border, who think they have some right to be in America because of some bs fairy tale about Aztlan, a place which never existed except in the minds of people who want to take something that is not theirs. And how people who claim to be Americans can support that I have no idea.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I favor deporting illegal aliens. I don't favor any "guest workers," at least not until each and every American who wants to work and will work has a job. Then, if there is any leftover work, maybe after they are properly vetted and don't have criminal records. We as a people gain nothing from having 20-30 million illegal aliens living amongst us either and that's a fact. It's a losing proposition, at least for Americans.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I don't think we really need any new immigration for a while, at least a decade. I think we should generally clamp down and only allow a lower level of immigration and only for the sake of family reunions. I think that we should not issue any new work visas. I think that putting people to work and building an atmosphere of opportunity for the people who are here should be considered a priority. you know the Colorado congressman named Tancredo made a name for himself in opposing illegal immigrants. He also introduced legislation to congress where the government would set targets for the wages in many categories of work. Then government would issue work visas to employers who hire people in those work categories. And those employers would bring in people in those work categories until the wage targets set would be the same as the actual average wage in that category. He wanted to bring people in specifically to lower wages. That was in his legislation. You follow these republican radicals who want these guest workers, it will balkanize our country. We need free people in our country, not different categories of people based on race or national origin. and we don't need government giving employers their employees from foreign sources.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
you're mistaken. I'm just in the middle of a situation where I am becoming a minority and the majority is being made hostile to me. I'll say it again (and again). the law was made in washington in 1986 to allow employers to hire them without penalty. I did not make that law. I wish that my fellow Americans did not allow that law to be made. I wish that employers today would be sanctioned for hiring new arrivals who are illegal. The government in washington and my fellow Americans have let me down severely.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I'm under the impression that his parents worked and therefore would have paid taxes The mexicans like to produce children and they start early in life HUGE tax saving will come from deportation. If I ANTAGONIZE them? WHT?? I expect them to ABIDE BY THE LAWS as I AM SUPPOSED TO ABIDE BY THE LAWS. Who cares if they hold a grudge? Get over it. Sheesh, we have 20% of the Mexican population in this nation now, they need to go home and make Mexico livable. If they paid taxes they did it on STOLEN SSC's. Somebody is a victim in THAT crime, not the illegals that's for sure. I call BS on your "impression" anyway. Stick with the facts. Why don't you pay for the fees of Luis if you really do CARE so darn much? Why don't YOU personally do for him what he "cannot" do for himself? That would be much more productive that EXPECTING everybody else to pay for him and his kids and his citizenship. You can repay the state of AZ the $10K for the birth of his child while you are at it. They would "produce" a lot less if they had to pay for the births and NOT the US citizens. I can't believe you support such lunacy. YOU pay for it if you think it's so great. Yada, yada. These immigrants CAME AND MILKED THE SYSTEM by having dupes like you and me pay for their anchor babies and for their education and for their health care and for their welfare. THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT SHOULD SERVE ITS CITIZENS, not the US government. I don't expect Mexico to serve me, do you? That's more lunacy. PS--If Luis loves this nation so much and wants citizenship SO MUCH, he can join the military and go fight wars for empire. Of course, YOU can pony up the fees and keep him out of harms way. Ivan could have done the same, or IF you really cared for Ivan you could have paid his way too. YOU pay if that's what YOU believe, just quit expecting the lot of us to foot the bills.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I'd call you an idiot but that would be a complement obama and his open borders are the radicals, not Tancredo
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
That is what I would call a bold statement of the obvious. We most certainly don't need any new immigration, the government needs to get serious about deporting the illegal aliens already in America. I would say that people who may have already been in line for years should get first consideration over the people you keep taking up for who didn't think they should get in any line except in the front of it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Who the hell are YOU to impose YOUR outmoded, pious cultural standards on a poor-but-proud pioneer-immigrant from another country?? It's Our Duty to "lift up" those who can't benefit from the white privilege that is a stain on this nation. Shame on you. Shame. On. You. ;-)
__________________________________________________________ Maybe you should consider moving but be sure and sign your home over to some illegal aliens first. After all, they're good folks (according to you) and they probably should have your house.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Great post, abraxas.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I know a guy from Honduras. He's illegal. He lives in a single family house nearby with a wife and kids. Leave him alone. He paid for that house with the fruits of his own labor. He pays taxes. We should not be hostile to him. The time to stop him was when he first came here. The opportunity to stop him was when he first came and looked for a job. The employer had no fear in hiring him though it is easy to determine who is legal and who is illegal. We should've penalized that employer. If we'd done that, then he never would've come here in the first place. But he did come here, the employer was allowed to hire him. He's since gotten pay raises and become a significant person to his employer. You know employers will actually shut down if all the illegals were sent home. Does that help us? We're in economic crisis. Our tax base has been beaten up enough. And his child is a student in an elementary school just a few blocks from here. that child doesn't know Honduras. That child is a future American regardless of what you do. the illegal immigration that Eisenhower dealt with was very small in scale to today. If we were to do that today we'd be emptying whole segments of our community and damaging our local tax base. I live in a city where the city council has discussed cutting back on police officers and the police already have cut back in that they won't always enforce some laws as they once did simply due to budget problems. also, I've run into mexicans who are racist towards me. You're advocating a course that will cause persecution against me. The mexican (& central American) illegal immigrants can go either way. They can choose to fit in and be citizens which is what most of them want. Or they can hate us. Many of my fellow Americans are encouraging them to hate me.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
You really should have tried to fit the words 'sweet, innocent, downtrodden, misunderstood, heroic and honkey-debbils' into that post. Then it would've been perfect.
Luis comes before us head bowed, hat-in-hand, a Humble Man of GOD. And the open- border congregation said "Amen".
__________________________________________________________ The hell you say! I thought they were all wonderful, upstanding people who loved everyone, never committed any crimes--well, 'cept for that little blind spot they have about invading other people's countries--and were just outstanding neighbors and friends. But with this new information, that some of them are actually damnable ray-cists I implore you to sign over your home to the next one you meet and just get out. Let them have it and if you have a little money be sure and give that to them too.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. That's bs! There were somewhere in the neighborhood of three million illegals. He deported a million of them and many of the ones they didn't get to self deported. As I said, the illegal immigration had dropped 95% by the end of the 50's. And I believe the government knows where most of them are and could deport them--it isn't like there have been no advances in technology in the last 50 or 60 years.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Oh yeah, you're good. ABE FOXMAN WANTS YOU... to write for the ADL.
James, I had a neighbor named Jesus who was 31 when he moved away and I lost track of him & his family. His wife named Josie was American Indian. Is that american enough for you? Her dad fought in the Vietnam war. They had 5 kids. I watched those kids grow up. This is their home. None of them were born in Mexico. That guy Jesus came here when he was 5 years old. And at age 30 he's still an illegal. He didn't want to go back to Mexico. English was the only language he spoke. I thought if you marry an American, then you automatically get to stay. I believe only if you have the money to pay can you do that. It is not automatic. He was illegal and he was married to an American Indian. His children spoke all english, no spanish. But the local school indoctrinated the children that they were Mexican and tried to shame them into thinking they were mexican and speaking spanish. This balkanization is brought on by our own government policies and by our own fears of them. Imagine, children of an American Indian who say that they are Mexican and not American. the child told me that she was taught that at school. Let's keep the people we have and make them americans. and lets close the door of high levels of immigration. If you vote for these republicans, then you're voting for high levels of immigration. Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is good. In 2006 there was legislation considered in congress and not passed. The Heritage Foundation analyzed that legislation and said it would mean 100 million new immigrants by 2020. all legal. That was republican legislation. Many of those new immigrants would be crimped in their legal status and not really free. What good does that do anyone except employers who want slaves? Why are slave-owners respected? I disagree with you that we should be bringing large numbers ofpeople in. Only small numbers and only for family reunification. None for employers. The same people so keen on bashing the illegals want guest workers for employers. I say lets use free labor only.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
why I appreciate that compliment. I think it means I did a good job in presenting my case with words. thank-you.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Christine, there are people in our country who are today making the argument that our borders should be meaningless, that we should take in everyone. I'm not making such an argument. Over at TPF they made that argument and said I was racist for not agreeing with the no border idea. and the republicans want to let in a hundred million guest workers. You might think the phrase '100 million' is a gross exaggeration. It is not. Over a period of 15 years that is what they want. A few years ago the republicans put forth legislation to do that. The legislation did not pass. but they will try again. Unless we get order on the immigration issue, it is likely we'll go down that path the republicans want. It is best to treat the existing illegals like human beings and let them stay. We should stop new immigration, both legal and illegal. We've never even tried to do that. I repeat, I'll stay with Ronald Reagan on this issue. our failure to deal reasonably with the illegals situation will encourage what you say you oppose.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
back in 2001 I believe or maybe 2002 the federal government went through payroll data from employers all over the country and identified millions of illegals on employer's payrolls. This was done for the sake of keeping social security records clear. It was not done for the purpose of sending them home. It was done so that the government can know how much social security to give them. It is easy to identify who is legal and who is not. The problem is that the lawmakers want to have dysfunctionalism until they pass their big immigration reform package which will mean a large increase in overall immigration and worse than that even special 'guest worker' programs that will in reality be indentured servant programs. I've proposed reasonable solutions that would greatly lower immigration and happen to be identical to what ronald Reagan wanted. a problem is that the people who have been put in front of us in the mass media who say they are against illegals have been disingenuous. Tancredo who wants an endless pipeline of indentured servants and targets the lowering of wages. JD Hayworth who goes on endlessly about how he'll put an army on the border, but never speaks that he will penalize employers for hiring them and instead wants indentured servants to be semi-slaves for the employers. Put an army on the border and you will have a tunnel under the border. They already have tunnels, lots of them have been found. The only way to stop the illegals is to punish the employers for hiring them. Our people have been lied to over a long period on this issue. Don't blame me for that. Did you all ever listen to the talk radio shows that were dedicated entirely 100% to the illegal immigrant issue. That doesn't happen by accident. The entire media is propaganda. They're fanning the flames of division as in divide-and-conquer. At the same time they're failing to inform us on this issue by failing to identify the central problem - that employers are free to hire them. Instead of bashing mexicans those shows should have pointed out in a sober way that employers are perfectly free to hire illegal immigrants. this is incredible dysfunctionalism and we're being ruined by it. those shows encourage people to vote republican and the republicans want guest workers which we should think of as a poison to us.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
that is an unfortunate reality that is too close to me. I favor penalizing employers for hiring illegals. But the 2 senators from Arizona, McCain and Kyl, do not. Neither does my congressman, Jeff Flake is my representative in the House, he is opposed to employer sanctions and he is very strongly in favor of guest workers. Guest workers mean taking our jobs, very similar to illegals. the state legislature here is republican. They refuse to penalize employers for hiring illegals. They actually made legislation to facilitate a guest worker program to be run by Arizona. That legislation failed, but they introduced it. The local republicans here went to the Mexican consulate and were setting it up. The Mexican consulate has a massive list of illegals living here and those people were going to be turned into guest workers. That was republicans. But I think that existing illegals should be turned into citizens. it is hard for me to comprehend that you can't find a qualitative difference between a free person and an indentured servant or guest worker who is not really free to go work for any employer he/she wants. An indentured servant is like a slave. That is bad for us. It drives wages down and creates a bad atmosphere. A free person doesn't harm us in the same way.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Can we at least deport the app 29% who occupy taxpayer space in our prison system?
!!!!!!!!!!! That knocks the legs out from under every argument for me to obey the laws of the land. If "they" get rewarded for breaking federal laws then what's to stop me from assassinating Congressmen for giving them amnesty??
__________________________________________________________ I'm aware that americans are treated badly in Mexico compared to how Mexicans are treated in America in terms of government policy. But our policies are our business and their policies are their business.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I hear stories that they milk the system. If that is true, then you must admit that system is available to them to milk. If they milk it, then I'll have a very limited amount of blame for them because they were allowed to do so. Point is - we have dysfunctionalism in our government, don't blame the mexicans for this. do welfare agencies figure out who is a legal resident and who is not. I hear they don't even care. Why blame me for that situation? I didn't do it. The mexicans didn't do it either. But I must take exception to you describing them this way. I am privileged to know illegal people who do extremely hard physical jobs in the hot sun and for very low wages. Those people I respect. Their employers who are normally white I do not respect. The politicians who refuse to sanction the employers I do not respect. The American citizens who are too stupid to figure out that the politicians will not sanction the employers I do not respect.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I appreciate this conversation with you abraxas. You know a few years ago the military was taking illegals freely and promising them a pathway to citizenship if they serve a certain period of time. They're not doing that any more. I've spoken to illegals who told me they tried to get in and could not get in because of their illegal status.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
If that is true, then you must admit that system is available to them to milk You find me ONE, just ONE anchor baby that the birth was paid for by the PARENTS and not the taxpayers. Just one in all these personal cases that you want to drag out to attempt to evoke sympathy from the lot of us. Until then, just be honest about the MILKING going on. Yes, I want to change the system, not with some amnesty that REWARDS lawbreakers, but a system that STRIPS any freebies from ANY illegal. If they can't pay for anchor baby, then anchor baby isn't a citizen. That will reduce those numbers. I know, how cruel to expect people WHO WANT CHILDREN to PAY FOR THEM. I've never sucked off the welfare teat and I don't want to pay for illegals to suck off of it either. Nor do I wish to pretend they are all pius and wonderful while STEALING SS numbers from citizens, even children. I am priviledged to know LEGAL immigrants. Of all the people in this land whom are against amnesty and this tripe you are pushing, the people who abided by the law and worked for citizenship are most vehmently AGAINST it. These people I RESPECT. You, on the other hand, DISRESPECT evey legal immigrant who has done what was necessary to attain citizenship LEGALLY.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
you're for guest workers to be let in for the specific purpose of driving wages down. Tancredo wanted wage targets. and he wanted guest worker visas for employers in the quantities needed to meet the wage targets. I think that the indentured servant and slavery institutions of the 1600's & 1700's were very bad. Guest workers are the same to me. But I certainly don't agree with open borders. and some of the Obama supporters do. They're psychotic. I'm not an obama supporter. I oppose Obama. and I certainly don't mind if you call me an 'idiot', it is like a badge, an epithet to be happy about when stupid people use it against you. and if you support Tancredo, then you support wage targets and the government bringing in guest workers (slaves) to meet those wage targets, and that means you are stupid. that word is spelled 'S T U P I D'. I'd imagine in your condition you might not know how to spell it. or maybe you just have a piece of flint for your brain. I am sorry. but I am tired of Americans pursuing foolishness and stupidity just because somebody in the mass media coaxed them to do so. Put your psychosis away.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
POINT 1: I occassionally work painting homes, interior and exterior. I've worked with MANY illegals. EVERY ONE OF THEM USED A STOLEN SS CARD. I know because I asked them, every single one I worked with, and none worked an iota harder than me. POINT 2: THESE ARE FOREIGN CITIZENS, not American citizens. This system isn't broken, it is NOT ENFORCED. They have their own RIGHTS in the country of their birth. I have my rights in the country of MY birth. Why is this so hard for you to understand? I don't waltz into Mexico and expect all the rights of a Mexican citizen. That's lunacy.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
unfortunately we have very few good leaders. the sickos among the democrats or the sickos among the republicans are generally our choices. Both parties offer us a bad choice, then they blame the other party for the bad choice that they themselves offerred. and too many americans get caught up in that crap. I've enjoyed the jabs you made at me, and I hope you've not been harmed by the jabs I sent at you. I've tried to point out the great flaw in our policies that have led to our situation. that is, we refuse to penalize employers for hiring illegals. I humbly suggest that we not blame the mexicans (or other illegals) for this problem we've had. It is more our fault than theirs', and especially it is the fault of our leaders. We should blame them. and forgive the mexicans who are today my neighbors.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Exactly. Which laws do Americans get to choose to obey or reject? This is an either/or argument. There is no gray. Either illegal is what the word means, or it doesn't.
That is what I would call a bold statement of the obvious. I was opposed to new immigration 20 years ago. I remember reading in the wall street journal in 1986 that the law just passed was the same as inviting huge numbers of illegal immigrants to come. I wanted the lawmakers to pass a law to penalize the employers for hiring illegals way back then! I only told you I was opposed to any new immigration because you said I favored unlimited immigration. I do not, I never have. I've always been opposed to the work visa programs.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Red, if amensty FAILED to fix the problem in 1986, what makes you think repeating the same mistake will have different results this time around? You ALWAYS get more of what you subsidize.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Balony!! Here's the link for citizenship through military service: www.uscis.gov/USCIS/New%2...rd%20Level%20(Left%20Nav% 20Children)/Military%20-%203rd%20Level/M-599militarynatz.pdf The illegals you have spoken to are blowing smoke up your butt.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
That's bs! There were somewhere in the neighborhood of three million illegals. somewhere in the neighborhood - sounds like maybe your source could not really nail down how many. but 3 million is a lot more than I thought. Perhaps they did kick out a lot more than I thought. Still, we may have 30 million illegals in the country now. could it be done? to kick them all out? From a technical point of view, yes. but it would not be wise. they are an integral part of our communities now. Someone above speculated that 20% of mexicans live in the US. It all depends on what year you use as the baseline to measure the mexican population. California and Texas each had wars with Mexico in the 1830's. And the US had a war with Mexico in 1848. If you go back to those days and measure the mexican population, you may find that over 30% of what was mexico then has come north to the US. If you go back to 1970 and use that year as a baseline, then still an awful lot of Mexico has come north. 30% I would not be shocked by. I read recently that 9% of Mexican citizens live in the US. It all depends on when you start measuring from. But they have steadily been migrating north for a long long time.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Should we boot those illegals who are currently incarcerated at taxpayer expense? If not, why not?
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
They still can't but most estimates put the number between 12 and 20 million and some people say it's more than that. Even if it were "only" 12 million that's 12 million too many. They need to go back home, take their anchor babies and apply to come here if they want to be here. Just like you would have to do if you wanted to move to Mexico. And if you did move there you damned well better not plan on participating in any protests to tell the government there how bad they suck and how mean they are to you. Mexicans get by with that $#it in America but Americans can't do it there.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I did. Just use your own numbers from a couple of minutes ago. There are 30 million illegals, mostly Mexican. The population in Mexico is 110 Million, so it only takes 22 million in this nation to reach that 20% mark. From your own numbers, that's about right. You don't need to go back to 1830 to calculate, just use CURRENT data and do a simple percentage calculation. How will conditions in Mexico EVER improve with so many of their citizens in the US? It won't. Mexico needs their own citizens in their own country, not in this country sending back money to prop up the corruption.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
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#25. To: Red Jones (#21)
the only way to deal with the situation is to let them stay and be citizens, at the same time make the employers stop hiring new ones and that can be done. We've never even tried to do these things. The alternative is guest workers. We don't want guest workers. That is like slavery in our country.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#26. To: christine (#22)
i couldn't agree with you more. what the hell, are we to take in everyone on the planet?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#27. To: Red Jones (#24)
if you favor the republican solutions, then you favor guest workers. that will balkanize us because those people will be alienated from us because they will not be equals in their legal status. we as a people will gain nothing from that.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#28. To: James Deffenbach (#18)
How many tens of millions of Chinese or Russians would be acceptable under your plan?
#29. To: James Deffenbach (#20)
It *might* be because of your sympathy for people who are willfully and knowingly trespassing in America. Try it in Mexico and see how their government deals with you.
#30. To: Red Jones (#17)
(Edited)
where I live the local public schools are 90% mexican. If you antagonize them, then you are dividing our country up and causing horrible grudges that will haunt us for many decades.
#31. To: Red Jones (#28)
republican radicals
#32. To: Red Jones (#28)
I don't think we really need any new immigration for a while, at least a decade.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#33. To: abraxas (#14)
Nobody forced Luis to have a child at 17.
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#34. To: Red Jones (#29)
I'm just in the middle of a situation where I am becoming a minority and the majority is being made hostile to me.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#35. To: abraxas (#30)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#36. To: James Deffenbach (#18)
Or is it only illegal alien Mexicans who get your sympathy?
#37. To: X-15 (#33)
Who the hell are YOU to impose YOUR outmoded, pious cultural standards on a poor-but-proud pioneer-immigrant from another country?? It's Our Duty to "lift up" those who can't benefit from the white privilege that is a stain on this nation.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#38. To: Esso (#37)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#39. To: Red Jones (#36)
also, I've run into mexicans who are racist towards me.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#40. To: Red Jones (#36)
the illegal immigration that Eisenhower dealt with was very small in scale to today.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#41. To: X-15 (#38)
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#42. To: James Deffenbach (#18)
If the illegal aliens actually want to be Americans--which I doubt very much--let them get in line behind people who have been trying to come in with visas and passports
#43. To: James Deffenbach (#19)
Your story should start "Once upon a time."
#44. To: christine (#22)
are we to take in everyone on the planet?
#45. To: James Deffenbach (#23)
You don't seriously suggest that with all the advances since the 50's that the illegals can't be found and taken so far into Mexico that they won't cross back into the country the same day, do you?
#46. To: James Deffenbach (#25)
(Edited)
Yeah, and all the illegals here taking American jobs
#47. To: Red Jones (#46)
But I think that existing illegals should be turned into citizens
#48. To: Red Jones (#46)
But I think that existing illegals should be turned into citizens.
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#49. To: James Deffenbach (#25)
Do you think you could go into Mexico without any paperwork, uninvited, and then work there, demand all kinds of benefits and protest against the government talking about how unfair they are to Americans?
#50. To: abraxas (#30)
(Edited)
These immigrants CAME AND MILKED THE SYSTEM
#51. To: abraxas (#30)
If Luis loves this nation so much and wants citizenship SO MUCH, he can join the military and go fight wars for empire.
#52. To: Red Jones (#50)
#53. To: Flintlock (#31)
Tancredo
#54. To: Red Jones (#50)
(Edited)
I am privileged to know illegal people who do extremely hard physical jobs in the hot sun and for very low wages.
#55. To: Flintlock (#31)
obama and his open borders are the radicals, not Tancredo
#56. To: X-15 (#48)
That knocks the legs out from under every argument for me to obey the laws of the land. If "they" get rewarded for breaking federal laws then what's to stop me from assassinating Congressmen for giving them amnesty??
#57. To: James Deffenbach (#32)
(Edited)
I don't think we really need any new immigration for a while, at least a decade.
#58. To: Red Jones (#57)
#59. To: Red Jones (#51)
They're not doing that any more. I've spoken to illegals who told me they tried to get in and could not get in because of their illegal status.
#60. To: James Deffenbach (#40)
the illegal immigration that Eisenhower dealt with was very small in scale to today.
#61. To: Red Jones (#60)
#62. To: James Deffenbach (#15)
#63. To: Red Jones (#60)
sounds like maybe your source could not really nail down how many.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#64. To: Red Jones (#60)
Someone above speculated that 20% of mexicans live in the US. It all depends on what year you use as the baseline to measure the mexican population.
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