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Title: Arizona: A “Revolutionary” Line in the Sand?
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CanadaFreePress.com
URL Source: http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/26124
Published: Aug 4, 2010
Author: Doug Hagmann
Post Date: 2010-08-04 10:10:35 by Eric Stratton
Keywords: None
Views: 1689
Comments: 144
Arizona: A “Revolutionary” Line in the Sand? I believe that history will show that the passage of SB 1070 by Arizona, and the federal government’s lawsuit to stop its implementation will be regarded the first battle of the 21st century American Revolution. Although not a single shot was fired- yet, the battle lines have clearly been drawn. Never before in the modern history of our country have all of the elements been in place for a war between our government and the citizenry of the United States. We stand at a proverbial and historic flashpoint as Obama plans to use the foot soldiers created by “comprehensive immigration reform,” whether achieved by law or mandate, to implement his socialist agenda for America. Transforming the United States into a socialist nation While the process of transforming the America known by our parents and grandparents to a socialist colony has been in progress for a half-century at the hands of Marxists, Socialists and Progressives, the Obama administration has put the Balkanization of America and the polarization of its citizens along racial, political and ideological lines on the fast track. And at least for now, he’s got the backing of Congress to advance his agenda of radical change. That was never so evident than on May 20th when the dictator of a corrupt, third world country was given a sickening, treasonous standing ovation in the halls of Congress for attacking the proposed legislation of an American sovereign state to uphold the laws of our country. Regardless of whatever legislative support he might currently enjoy, evidence has shown that he is actively considering a back door strategy that would circumvent the need for congressional approval. More importantly, it would also circumvent the need for approval from the citizens of the U.S. Once in place, the amnesty of millions of illegal aliens in the U.S. would create a formidable electoral force to keep the Progressives in power under the pretext of free elections. The talk of altruistic motives of immigration and the joys and benefits of multiculturalism is nothing more than a smokescreen for power and control on the path to transforming the United States into a socialist nation. Hart-Celler Act, Chain Migration To understand how we got to this point in our national history, the groundwork for the transformation of our country was laid in 1965 with the passage of the Hart-Celler Act, which was signed into law by then President Lyndon Johnson. As Mark Levin details in his best-selling book Liberty and Tyranny, that single piece of legislation, as part of the Great Society, laid “the foundation for radically altering the character of American society and the relationship of the governed to their government.” During the debate of the bill on the floor of the Senate, Levin noted that Senator Kennedy insisted that the ethnic mix of the U.S. would not be changed, nor would America be inundated with immigrants from any one country or area.” In his assessment of the debate, Mark Levin wrote “it is hard to believe that they were not intentionally deceiving the public.” Indeed. That bill caused a significant change in immigration that essentially created the current situation in the U.S. It introduced “chain migration,” which radically altered the “historical basis for making immigration decisions.” As written by Mr. Levin, “The emphasis would no longer be on the preservation of American society and the consent of the governed; now aliens themselves would decide who comes to the United States through family reunification (emphasis mine). The act also eliminated national quotas for immigration, opening the floodgates for immigrants from Mexico, Central and South America. Consider that as a result of the 1965 immigration reform and deliberate lack of immigration enforcement, nearly 1 in 3 immigrants living in the U.S. today is here illegally. Additionally, legal immigration increased from 2.5 million in the 1950’s to over 10 million in the 1990’s. In 2007, the immigrant population in the U.S. reached a record 37.9 million and today accounts for 1 in 8 of all U.S. residents. In contrast, immigrants accounted for 1 in 21 of all U.S. residents in 1970. 9 percent of the population of Mexico resides in the United States According to a 2004 report by the Pew Hispanic Center and detailed in Liberty and Tyranny, roughly 9 percent of the population of Mexico resides in the United States. Fifty seven percent of all illegal immigrants are Mexican, and another 24 percent are from other Latin American countries. In less than 40 years, it is estimated that Hispanic school-aged children will comprise the majority of public school students in the U.S. While many proponents of immigration argue that the immigrants are here to assimilate and contribute to the United States, a 2008 study by the Manhattan Institute determined that the current level of assimilation is at a record low. Perhaps this is most evident by the fact that more than 55 million individuals living in the U.S. speak a language other than English, including over 34 million who speak Spanish. It is evident that assimilation is not a priority. The establishment of ethnic conclaves within the U.S. is an example of the lack of desire to assimilate into the fabric of American society. In addition to the social and cultural effects of immigration as a whole, illegal immigrants are being aided by our own government in transferring money out of the United States. In 2006, illegal aliens sent an estimated $45 billion from the U.S. to their countries of origin. Last year, thanks to the assistance of the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury, Mexicans alone living and working in the U.S. transferred between $21.9 and $25 billion to the Mexican economy. Under the program called Directo a Mexico, U.S. commercial banks enable illegal aliens to transfer money through the Federal Reserve’s own automated clearinghouse, which is linked to the Mexican central bank Banco de Mexico. The illegal alien is also given an ATM card that can be used in Mexican banks in the event of their deportation. The outflow of U.S. dollars to Mexico The outflow of U.S. dollars to Mexico is second only to Mexico’s oil industry in the amount of revenue produced. It should be no wonder, then, that the Mexican government has no interest in working with U.S. authorities to secure our border or to enforce our immigration laws. In fact, it is the ultimate goal of the global elite to erase our borders and implement a “North American Union” as a step to achieving global governance. Illegal immigration is a big business, and not just for Mexico. It is estimated that $18-25 billion is spent by state governments on welfare programs to illegal aliens each year, and about $2.2 billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs for illegal aliens. And additional $2.5 billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. The drain on the American economy by individuals living illegally in the United States is a significant threat that will lead to our demise. There should be no doubt that illegal aliens also pose a security risk to our country. First and foremost, they are living and working in this country illegally—contrary to the laws of the United States. And contrary to the Progressive party line, the proponents of multiculturalism, and civil rights and advocacy organizations that subjugate the rights of Americans to their own agendas, crimes committed by illegal aliens are statistically higher than legal immigrants or U.S. citizens. In 2005, the Government Accountability Office released a study it conducted of 55,322 incarcerated illegal aliens. The study population averaged 8 arrests each. Ninety seven percent were arrested more than once, and 26% had over 11 arrests each. Each illegal alien averaged 13 separate offenses and 24% of those offenses were for drug crimes. About 12% were for murder, robbery, assault and sexually related crimes, and 21% of offenses were immigration offenses. Other offenses included property related offenses, traffic violations, fraud and obstruction of justice. Illegal aliens arrested for less serious crimes and released pending a hearing at a future date often fail to appear. According to US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, there were 557,762 fugitive alien cases were listed as “unsolved” at the end of 2008. Furthermore, illegal immigrants with extensive criminal records and multiple deportations are often permitted to remain in the U.S. by activist judges who are sympathetic to their plight. The rampant problem of illegal immigration can easily be solved not by creating new legislation or enacting a complex system of immigration reform. As we observed in the weeks leading up to the implementation of SB 1070 in Arizona as law, the mere threat of realistic enforcement was sufficient to cause an exodus of illegal aliens from that state. As illustrated by the incoherent ruling of a political hack legislating from the bench, Arizona’s attempt to secure their state was undermined in a crafty and carefully executed political ploy. It is no coincidence that the appeal process will extend beyond the November midterm elections. It is the political hubris of a socialist dictator imposing his agenda against the will of the majority of this country’s citizenry. National Council of La Raza, John McCain, Hillary Clinton The failure to effectively address the issue of illegal immigration is not limited to any one political party; many Republicans as well as a vast majority of Democrats are complicit in failing to secure America’s safety and sovereignty. Consider that the National Council of La Raza, the largest Hispanic advocacy group in the United States, honored Senator John McCain in 1999. During her presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton appointed a senior member of La Raza to her staff, and Obama appointed a La Raza leader as the director of the Office of Internal Affairs. Undoubtedly, this virulent pro-amnesty group enjoys a significant influence over public policy in American government. Funding of this group finds numerous foundations and individuals who espouse and promote a global ideology and “one world governance” over national sovereignty as key contributors. Despite the above statistics, those who demand immigration enforcement and the rule of law are often labeled as racists and xenophobes. American cities and states like Arizona are reeling from the adverse financial and social effects of illegal immigration and unfettered legal immigration. They lack help from the federal government, which is more intent on creating an electoral majority to ensure the continuation of their power to facilitate the socialist makeover and takeover of the United States. Obama and his justice department are siding with criminals against the citizens of America. Arizona is attempting to restore order to a system of chaos created by the federal government. Instead of welcoming the help and choosing to uphold the U.S. Constitution, the Obama administration is imposing a socialist dictatorship and has drawn a line in the Arizona sand. The question is now whether that line becomes “Ground Zero” for this century’s American Revolution—a fight against the Balkanization of our country, and the eradication of our borders, our sovereignty and ultimately, our nation. As noted by one Arizona Sheriff, “our own government has become our enemy.” The question is how, if and when law-abiding, patriotic American citizens will choose to engage that enemy. For the sake of our country, acceptance and acquiescence is not an option. Copyright © Douglas Hagmann Douglas Hagmann, founder & director of the Northeast Intelligence Network, and a multi-state licensed private investigative agency. Doug began using his investigative skills and training to fight terrorism and increase public awareness through his website.
By Doug Hagmann
August 3, 2010
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#43. To: James Deffenbach (#19)
why I appreciate that compliment. I think it means I did a good job in presenting my case with words. thank-you.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Christine, there are people in our country who are today making the argument that our borders should be meaningless, that we should take in everyone. I'm not making such an argument. Over at TPF they made that argument and said I was racist for not agreeing with the no border idea. and the republicans want to let in a hundred million guest workers. You might think the phrase '100 million' is a gross exaggeration. It is not. Over a period of 15 years that is what they want. A few years ago the republicans put forth legislation to do that. The legislation did not pass. but they will try again. Unless we get order on the immigration issue, it is likely we'll go down that path the republicans want. It is best to treat the existing illegals like human beings and let them stay. We should stop new immigration, both legal and illegal. We've never even tried to do that. I repeat, I'll stay with Ronald Reagan on this issue. our failure to deal reasonably with the illegals situation will encourage what you say you oppose.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
back in 2001 I believe or maybe 2002 the federal government went through payroll data from employers all over the country and identified millions of illegals on employer's payrolls. This was done for the sake of keeping social security records clear. It was not done for the purpose of sending them home. It was done so that the government can know how much social security to give them. It is easy to identify who is legal and who is not. The problem is that the lawmakers want to have dysfunctionalism until they pass their big immigration reform package which will mean a large increase in overall immigration and worse than that even special 'guest worker' programs that will in reality be indentured servant programs. I've proposed reasonable solutions that would greatly lower immigration and happen to be identical to what ronald Reagan wanted. a problem is that the people who have been put in front of us in the mass media who say they are against illegals have been disingenuous. Tancredo who wants an endless pipeline of indentured servants and targets the lowering of wages. JD Hayworth who goes on endlessly about how he'll put an army on the border, but never speaks that he will penalize employers for hiring them and instead wants indentured servants to be semi-slaves for the employers. Put an army on the border and you will have a tunnel under the border. They already have tunnels, lots of them have been found. The only way to stop the illegals is to punish the employers for hiring them. Our people have been lied to over a long period on this issue. Don't blame me for that. Did you all ever listen to the talk radio shows that were dedicated entirely 100% to the illegal immigrant issue. That doesn't happen by accident. The entire media is propaganda. They're fanning the flames of division as in divide-and-conquer. At the same time they're failing to inform us on this issue by failing to identify the central problem - that employers are free to hire them. Instead of bashing mexicans those shows should have pointed out in a sober way that employers are perfectly free to hire illegal immigrants. this is incredible dysfunctionalism and we're being ruined by it. those shows encourage people to vote republican and the republicans want guest workers which we should think of as a poison to us.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
that is an unfortunate reality that is too close to me. I favor penalizing employers for hiring illegals. But the 2 senators from Arizona, McCain and Kyl, do not. Neither does my congressman, Jeff Flake is my representative in the House, he is opposed to employer sanctions and he is very strongly in favor of guest workers. Guest workers mean taking our jobs, very similar to illegals. the state legislature here is republican. They refuse to penalize employers for hiring illegals. They actually made legislation to facilitate a guest worker program to be run by Arizona. That legislation failed, but they introduced it. The local republicans here went to the Mexican consulate and were setting it up. The Mexican consulate has a massive list of illegals living here and those people were going to be turned into guest workers. That was republicans. But I think that existing illegals should be turned into citizens. it is hard for me to comprehend that you can't find a qualitative difference between a free person and an indentured servant or guest worker who is not really free to go work for any employer he/she wants. An indentured servant is like a slave. That is bad for us. It drives wages down and creates a bad atmosphere. A free person doesn't harm us in the same way.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Can we at least deport the app 29% who occupy taxpayer space in our prison system?
!!!!!!!!!!! That knocks the legs out from under every argument for me to obey the laws of the land. If "they" get rewarded for breaking federal laws then what's to stop me from assassinating Congressmen for giving them amnesty??
__________________________________________________________ I'm aware that americans are treated badly in Mexico compared to how Mexicans are treated in America in terms of government policy. But our policies are our business and their policies are their business.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I hear stories that they milk the system. If that is true, then you must admit that system is available to them to milk. If they milk it, then I'll have a very limited amount of blame for them because they were allowed to do so. Point is - we have dysfunctionalism in our government, don't blame the mexicans for this. do welfare agencies figure out who is a legal resident and who is not. I hear they don't even care. Why blame me for that situation? I didn't do it. The mexicans didn't do it either. But I must take exception to you describing them this way. I am privileged to know illegal people who do extremely hard physical jobs in the hot sun and for very low wages. Those people I respect. Their employers who are normally white I do not respect. The politicians who refuse to sanction the employers I do not respect. The American citizens who are too stupid to figure out that the politicians will not sanction the employers I do not respect.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I appreciate this conversation with you abraxas. You know a few years ago the military was taking illegals freely and promising them a pathway to citizenship if they serve a certain period of time. They're not doing that any more. I've spoken to illegals who told me they tried to get in and could not get in because of their illegal status.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
If that is true, then you must admit that system is available to them to milk You find me ONE, just ONE anchor baby that the birth was paid for by the PARENTS and not the taxpayers. Just one in all these personal cases that you want to drag out to attempt to evoke sympathy from the lot of us. Until then, just be honest about the MILKING going on. Yes, I want to change the system, not with some amnesty that REWARDS lawbreakers, but a system that STRIPS any freebies from ANY illegal. If they can't pay for anchor baby, then anchor baby isn't a citizen. That will reduce those numbers. I know, how cruel to expect people WHO WANT CHILDREN to PAY FOR THEM. I've never sucked off the welfare teat and I don't want to pay for illegals to suck off of it either. Nor do I wish to pretend they are all pius and wonderful while STEALING SS numbers from citizens, even children. I am priviledged to know LEGAL immigrants. Of all the people in this land whom are against amnesty and this tripe you are pushing, the people who abided by the law and worked for citizenship are most vehmently AGAINST it. These people I RESPECT. You, on the other hand, DISRESPECT evey legal immigrant who has done what was necessary to attain citizenship LEGALLY.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
you're for guest workers to be let in for the specific purpose of driving wages down. Tancredo wanted wage targets. and he wanted guest worker visas for employers in the quantities needed to meet the wage targets. I think that the indentured servant and slavery institutions of the 1600's & 1700's were very bad. Guest workers are the same to me. But I certainly don't agree with open borders. and some of the Obama supporters do. They're psychotic. I'm not an obama supporter. I oppose Obama. and I certainly don't mind if you call me an 'idiot', it is like a badge, an epithet to be happy about when stupid people use it against you. and if you support Tancredo, then you support wage targets and the government bringing in guest workers (slaves) to meet those wage targets, and that means you are stupid. that word is spelled 'S T U P I D'. I'd imagine in your condition you might not know how to spell it. or maybe you just have a piece of flint for your brain. I am sorry. but I am tired of Americans pursuing foolishness and stupidity just because somebody in the mass media coaxed them to do so. Put your psychosis away.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
POINT 1: I occassionally work painting homes, interior and exterior. I've worked with MANY illegals. EVERY ONE OF THEM USED A STOLEN SS CARD. I know because I asked them, every single one I worked with, and none worked an iota harder than me. POINT 2: THESE ARE FOREIGN CITIZENS, not American citizens. This system isn't broken, it is NOT ENFORCED. They have their own RIGHTS in the country of their birth. I have my rights in the country of MY birth. Why is this so hard for you to understand? I don't waltz into Mexico and expect all the rights of a Mexican citizen. That's lunacy.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
unfortunately we have very few good leaders. the sickos among the democrats or the sickos among the republicans are generally our choices. Both parties offer us a bad choice, then they blame the other party for the bad choice that they themselves offerred. and too many americans get caught up in that crap. I've enjoyed the jabs you made at me, and I hope you've not been harmed by the jabs I sent at you. I've tried to point out the great flaw in our policies that have led to our situation. that is, we refuse to penalize employers for hiring illegals. I humbly suggest that we not blame the mexicans (or other illegals) for this problem we've had. It is more our fault than theirs', and especially it is the fault of our leaders. We should blame them. and forgive the mexicans who are today my neighbors.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Exactly. Which laws do Americans get to choose to obey or reject? This is an either/or argument. There is no gray. Either illegal is what the word means, or it doesn't.
That is what I would call a bold statement of the obvious. I was opposed to new immigration 20 years ago. I remember reading in the wall street journal in 1986 that the law just passed was the same as inviting huge numbers of illegal immigrants to come. I wanted the lawmakers to pass a law to penalize the employers for hiring illegals way back then! I only told you I was opposed to any new immigration because you said I favored unlimited immigration. I do not, I never have. I've always been opposed to the work visa programs.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Red, if amensty FAILED to fix the problem in 1986, what makes you think repeating the same mistake will have different results this time around? You ALWAYS get more of what you subsidize.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Balony!! Here's the link for citizenship through military service: www.uscis.gov/USCIS/New%2...rd%20Level%20(Left%20Nav% 20Children)/Military%20-%203rd%20Level/M-599militarynatz.pdf The illegals you have spoken to are blowing smoke up your butt.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
That's bs! There were somewhere in the neighborhood of three million illegals. somewhere in the neighborhood - sounds like maybe your source could not really nail down how many. but 3 million is a lot more than I thought. Perhaps they did kick out a lot more than I thought. Still, we may have 30 million illegals in the country now. could it be done? to kick them all out? From a technical point of view, yes. but it would not be wise. they are an integral part of our communities now. Someone above speculated that 20% of mexicans live in the US. It all depends on what year you use as the baseline to measure the mexican population. California and Texas each had wars with Mexico in the 1830's. And the US had a war with Mexico in 1848. If you go back to those days and measure the mexican population, you may find that over 30% of what was mexico then has come north to the US. If you go back to 1970 and use that year as a baseline, then still an awful lot of Mexico has come north. 30% I would not be shocked by. I read recently that 9% of Mexican citizens live in the US. It all depends on when you start measuring from. But they have steadily been migrating north for a long long time.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Should we boot those illegals who are currently incarcerated at taxpayer expense? If not, why not?
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
They still can't but most estimates put the number between 12 and 20 million and some people say it's more than that. Even if it were "only" 12 million that's 12 million too many. They need to go back home, take their anchor babies and apply to come here if they want to be here. Just like you would have to do if you wanted to move to Mexico. And if you did move there you damned well better not plan on participating in any protests to tell the government there how bad they suck and how mean they are to you. Mexicans get by with that $#it in America but Americans can't do it there.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I did. Just use your own numbers from a couple of minutes ago. There are 30 million illegals, mostly Mexican. The population in Mexico is 110 Million, so it only takes 22 million in this nation to reach that 20% mark. From your own numbers, that's about right. You don't need to go back to 1830 to calculate, just use CURRENT data and do a simple percentage calculation. How will conditions in Mexico EVER improve with so many of their citizens in the US? It won't. Mexico needs their own citizens in their own country, not in this country sending back money to prop up the corruption.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
abraxas ! all I know is that pregnant women go to the hospital or the doctor to get medical care. If they don't have private insurance, then a government insurance picks them up and pays. Or maybe in some cases the hospital pays and the cost is spread through all other fees to everyone. Medical care is getting more and more difficult for us to pay for. and I do not think that either the democrats' open borders or the republicans' guest workers will help that situation. I think it is unfortunate that our government sets policy to drive wages down. I've advocated penalizing employers for hiring new illegal immigrants. That is a policy that would help to stop the downward slide in wages. I would want to advocate other such policies too. such as big changes in trade. we should produce goods and services ourselves and not import more than we can pay for with exports. We're building poverty for ourselves by importing much more than we can really pay for with exports and instead pay for those imports with new debt. This impoverishes us and makes health care much more difficult for many people to pay for. I was very disappointed last year when Obama's health care reform bill did not make any attempt at all to lower the cost of medical care. Medical care is simply too expensive in this country. It is much more expensive here than anywhere else. Why? We should figure out why and make changes. Mexico has much more affordable health care than we have. I read in the AZ Republic about how American retirees go down there and pay a very modest fee per year and get a lot of medical care for what they pay. And that medical program they spoke of was heavily subsidized by their government. I read that a hip replacement in the US costs at least $100,000 and sometimes $125,000. But in New Zealand you get top quality care for the same thing and it only costs $30,000. and nowhere else in the world does it cost anywhere near what it costs here. In India it costs $12,000. Why is our system so expensive? I was very disappointed that Republicans didn't make this a theme. Nobody cared - at all. Don't blame the mexicans for our medical system being so extraordinarily expensive. In Mexico they don't have that problem. I'm not joking, in the US the medical process & procedures are run to make them as expensive as possible. In America you'll go to the doctor three times to solve a problem and you'll have to set an appointment and wait for each time. while for the same problem in foreign countries you just walk in and before you leave they solved the problem for you - and the cost is a small fraction. We have problems in our medical care industry, problems that greatly sand-bag our domestic industries who must compete with foreign competitors and yet almost nobody cares. Certainly democrats and republicans don't care. Instead they all tell us that everything will be better if we put an expensive army on the border. It will not be better and we can't afford that expensive army. We need to figure out how to lower our costs now.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
There were a million illegals in Los Angeles alone ten years ago, there's no way the ten million number currently being bandied about today could be correct. Hell, I'd put the number easily at 30,000 here in Indianapolis, and we're not exactly a border city.
"The people in power will not disappear voluntarily, giving flowers to the cops just isn't going to work. This thinking is fostered by the establishment; they like nothing better than love and nonviolence. The only way I like to see cops given flowers is in a flower pot from a high window.” - William S Burroughs
We're building poverty for ourselves by importing Mexico has much more affordable health care than we have We need to figure out how to lower our costs now. Yeah, because we are subsidizing MILLIONS of ILLEGALS. One little anchor baby and the parents get on the freebie gravy train. Why do you think AZ is so broke? We're building poverty for ourselves by importing ILLEGAL ALIENS. What do you think it costs the lot of us to subsidize 30 million, to use your own number, illegals? Yes, this is why they should have their babies in Mexico. If, as you claim, it is so great, then the illegals should be getting care in their own nation. Let us begin by ending the subsidized free health care for illegals.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
that is nice. painting is very easy work. it seems that you hired illegals. You wouldn't have asked them about their paperwork unless you were the one hiring them. You don't just go walking around the job site and say 'hey are you an illegal?' 'do you use your own SSN or a fake one?' the only people who ask that question are the ones employing them. I wouldn't do that myself. I'm an American. I don't respect people that hire illegals. I respect the illegals, but not the Americans who hire them. I believe in using free labor only. a person who is inherently illegal in his status here is not a free person. they are compromised and you it seems took advantage of this crimped legal status. I resent that deeply. You are not any better really than an ante-bellum slave owner. you may think I'm joking, but I'm not. I wouldn't stop and pick up an illegal on a street corner to mow my lawn. I've never had any problem hiring americans to do common labor. you should be ashamed of yourself for hiring an illegal. I'm serious.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
It is illegal for an employer to hire an illegal immigrant. and it is illegal for an illegal immigrant to be here, also illegal for an illegal immigrant to work here. but according to the law there are potential penalties against the illegal immigrant found here. But the penalties against the employer are either non-existent or extremely light. The federal gov will not penalize them. some states (such as Arizona) will penalize the employers only very very lightly, so light that it doesn't even matter. So there is no law to be enforced that matters other than to just treat the illegal immigrant as a criminal. I don't believe in punishing them, I believe in punishing the employer instead. We don't have laws to do that.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
you it seems took advantage of this crimped legal status I resent that deeply. You are not any better really than an ante-bellum slave owner. you may think I'm joking, but I'm not. you should be ashamed of yourself for hiring an illegal. I'm serious. No, I clearly stated I WORKED with illegals. Why wouldn't I ask? I wanted to know how they got the job. You work with these folks day in and day out and you talk. Since I'm a female and easy to look at, they tell me anything I want to know. They think my broken spanish is cute. So, you wouldn't ask, I WOULD. I have and I did. Stop making stupid ASSumptions. I work at painting to pay for my Masters Degree. I don't believe in government loans, so I work my ass off to pay cash. I don't mind working hard to accomplish my goals. I have NEVER hired an illegal for anything. I'm just one of those Americans who is WILLING TO DO THE SAME WORK AS ILLEGALS. Imagine that. You should be ashamed of yourself for making such STUPID ASSumptions, Red. I'm serious. Epic FAILURE trying to use your guilt trip ASSumptions that you pull out of your butt to make me feel "shame".......lol. Try sticking with the facts instead of manipulation and ASSumptions.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
well that is very nice Mr former police officer. I am one american who has become disrespectful of 'the law'. There are too many laws. There are too many people being thrown in jail. There are too many police officers who are disrespectful to too many citizens. The courts are dysfunctional. Not even 5% of the people in prison got trials. This plea-bargain thing is insane because it circumvents trials. the laws are so selectively enforced. The government is writing 'no-bid' contracts with special companies who in turn charge the taxpayers massively to the point where it is obvious theft. The law has become a joke. this is not the police officers' fault. It is the lawmakers' fault. our laws concerning illegal immigrants were written in a purposely dysfunctional manner knowing full well it would result in tens of millions of illegals among us, knowing full well that it would drive wages down and destroy opportunities for americans. we should not respect laws under these circumstances. Obviously, if we were to do what we should do, then perhaps we'd have a few less lawmakers walking around breathing. Perhaps tarring and feathering should be restored. Perhaps the french revolution is not too radical. but at the same time you and I both know we're not going to do those things. It all means - I can't respect the law.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
2. I disagree with you that we should be bringing large numbers ofpeople in. LOL! The last alleged "Republican" I voted for (for president) was Richard Nixon for his first term. He campaigned that he would get America out of Vietnam. He didn't during his first term and I didn't vote for him the second time. I voted for Ron Paul when he ran as a libertarian in 1988. I don't vote for establishment whores no matter which letter they connect their name to (R or D, it's really the same party). 2. Where did I say we should do that? I don't think I did, only that people who have been waiting in line, some of them for years, should be ahead of the line jumpers. That means illegal aliens go to the back of the line and if they're caught in America again after jumping the line they should go to prison for about six months and told to never, ever return to America or there would be consequences and repercussions.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. you know what Abraxas? I get pretty impatient with stupid people who don't make any effort to see what is happening. How many times do I have to tell you that the law passed in 1986 was intended to pave the way for huge numbers of illegal immigrants to come here. That law made a procedure by which employers could hire illegal immigrants without any penalty to the employer. All they have to do is photo-copy documents with each new hire and store the documents in a file. The new hire signs a paper that says the documents are real. If the documents look real, then the employer is perfectly clear to hire that person even if they are illegal. There were congressmen who stood up on the floor of the house and said that this law would result in a huge black market for fake documents and that illegal immigrants would be hired in large numbers as a result. The wall street journal itself said that this would happen on the day after that law was passed. So you think that if we merely pass a law saying that it is illegal for an illegal to be here and work here that the illegal is supposed to look up our laws and know our laws and obey our laws - when all the employers are cleared to hire them. You think you can come back 20 years later and put the illegal immigrant in jail because they didn't follow the law. People break the law every day. You can't drive down the road without seeing people speed. People break all kinds of laws all the time. You can't enforce laws through the honor system. If we didn't want illegal immigrants to be hired in large numbers, then we should have passed a law requiring that employers check their status prior to hiring them and that the employers be penalized harshly for hiring illegal immigrants. We did not do that. I've advocated legislation considerably different from the 1986 legislation in that I advocate penalties for employers and I advocate forcing the employers to confirm if the person is legal or illegal. Ronald Reagan wanted penalties to employers for hiring illegals. The House of Representatives wanted penalties to employers for hiring illegals. The leadership of the US Senate (republicans at the time) would not allow the legislation to be voted on if there were provisions in the bill to penalize employers. They insisted instead that a procedure was developed to protect employers from harm if they hired an illegal immigrant. Your post indicates that you were not even aware of all this. You're more an enemy of mine than the illegals because you are a citizen without a brain that can easily be stampeded by propaganda into supporting something bad. I'm sick of my fellow Americans being so feeble and dysfunctional. 24 years went by, it was a major deal to our country, and you don't even know what happened, but you're going to spout at me.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I said at the very top that SB1070 is not a revolution. It is feeble stupid dysfunctional law that accomplishes nothing but emotional terrorism. and everybody accused me of loving the illegals. No, I would like a law in arizona that penalizes employers for hiring new people who are illegal. Based on the responses I've received, I am the only one here that actually wants to stop the new illegals from coming in. The people behind SB1070 (republicans) are not intending on stopping new people from coming. and you all are defending that law. should we deport people in prison for crimes like stealing or violence? I think we jail too many people, but if they're incarcerated for a crime like that, then they should serve their time. Anybody who thinks that SB1070 represents the beginning of a revolution is an idiot. and the author of this article above said that SB1070 was the beginning of a revolution. That law is done by the people who rule us and their agenda is to break down our sovereignty and bring many many new people here, but from their point of view they hope not free people. They like slaves. That is what guest workers are.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Need I remind you that it was sold to the people as a means to end ILLEGAL immigration? I think you have laid on the self righteous arrogance thick enough, Red. You blather on about your stupid ASSumptions that have NO RELEVANCE whatsoever. But, when that doesn't work you move in for personal insults. So, I'm your enemy now. Newsflash: belly button lint is of more importance than your personal enemy list. I'm sick of subsidizing illegals. I'm sick of paying for anchor babies. I'm sick of people having their identity stolen. I'm sick of seeing Mexican flags waving in my country. I'm sick of La Raza. I'm sick of this diatribe about how these poor illegals "can't" get citizenship and "can't" be expected to pay their own way. Gee, with the $20 Billion a YEAR they SEND TO MEXICO, I think they could PAY UP if it was of any importance to them. Obviously, IT IS NOT. I am an AmeriCAN and I don't want amnesty for a bunch of AmeriCAN'TS. Talk about feeble and dysfunctional. Sheesh, these people are here for 20 years and STILL CAN'T SPEAK THE LANGUAGE. On the other hand, ALL of my legal immigrant friends and acquaintances are FLUENT. And they are now AmeriCANS, as it should be.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
The American Indian? Sure, she is American enough. Your illegal alien? No. He is not an American at all. Just another criminal who jumped the line ahead of other people.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. you make a good point that Americans are not treated as well in Mexico as Mexicans are treated here. That is very reasonable. But the point I'd like to make on that is that when we Americans protest here in America we are simply not allowed. You are likely aware of the history on protests here in America the last 10 years. There's been 4 or 5 times when Americans did large public protests and were met with police state tactics to stop them from doing so. Americans when they protest are arrested in large numbers. They're beaten. Strong efforts are made to throw them in jail with no legitimate justification for doing so. I remember the big illegal immigrant protest that I think was in 2006. We had I think maybe over 200,000 protesters walking the streets peacefully. and there were very very few police officers. The only police they had were just a very few and they were not dressed in riot gear. They did not assault the mexicans protesting. They did not arrest them. Americans would not have been allowed to protest like that. Our own government has a double standard on that. But it is their agenda to bring lots of immigrants in, to drive wages down, to divide us up and rule over us. Down in Mexico the Mexican government is against the Mexicans too and has done many things to harm them. When the mexicans came out in large numbers to protest crooked elections a few years ago the mexican police came out and eventually killed some mexican citizens to stop those protests.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Sheesh, you need to calm down & take another WetBaxium pill, Hothead Red.
Actually you don't owe me any thanks for that because I didn't mean it the way you took it. And neither you nor anyone else will ever convince me that we need to welcome 20 million people (or 30 million or ever what the actual number is) whose first act coming into the country was a criminal act. I don't get to go into other people's country and work without papers and lots of bureaucracy. Why should they?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I don't disagree with you on that, you can see by my statement above. I was trying to say it may well be higher than 20% especially if you go back in time. Mexico has been migrating north for a long time. I read that of all mexicans in 1848 about 5% lived north of the current border. They would've become US citizens. and ever since then there's been a stream of them coming north. But since the 1980's that stream became a big river. How many illegals are here? maybe 30 million, most estimates are low I believe. and this is after the illegals who came in the 1970's & early 1980's were made legal. and I think maybe only 2/3's are Mexican. However you look at it, a very large portion of the Mexican population has chosen to live in the United States.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Their tunnels, when they are found, should be closed with dynamite. And shooting a few of them when they crossed the border would probably cause the others to hear mamacita hollering for them back at the casa and then turn around and go see what up with mama. I have no problem with punishing people for hiring illegals assuming they know they're illegal. But unless they go after the ones who hire most of them, outfits like Tyson's, nothing will be done about it. A few prosecutions of some of the biggest criminals might get some results. But sure, punish the employers and deport the illegals. Make it fair.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. And that's where I disagree with you. America can't afford to take in every mofo who wants to move from their country. As I said before, does your sympathy extend only to Mexicans? How many million North Koreans should we take in? What about Russians, Chinese, Congolese, Argentinians? How about Cubans? There is a tribe of oppressed people, do you want to take all of them in too? How many hundreds of millions more people do Americans need to take in and support? Cause that's what happens with a lot of them, including the illegal alien Mexicans.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. each individual medical procedure here costs double or more what the same procedure costs just about anywhere else. that is the problem you should focus on regarding unaffordable medical costs. Many americans are uninsured and more every year because of our deteriorating economic situation. Many of the illegals pay taxes and therefore they are no more subsidized than the uninsured Americans who are also subsidized.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Comments (84 - 144) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestYour story should start "Once upon a time."
#44. To: christine (#22)
are we to take in everyone on the planet?
#45. To: James Deffenbach (#23)
You don't seriously suggest that with all the advances since the 50's that the illegals can't be found and taken so far into Mexico that they won't cross back into the country the same day, do you?
#46. To: James Deffenbach (#25)
(Edited)
Yeah, and all the illegals here taking American jobs
#47. To: Red Jones (#46)
But I think that existing illegals should be turned into citizens
#48. To: Red Jones (#46)
But I think that existing illegals should be turned into citizens.
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#49. To: James Deffenbach (#25)
Do you think you could go into Mexico without any paperwork, uninvited, and then work there, demand all kinds of benefits and protest against the government talking about how unfair they are to Americans?
#50. To: abraxas (#30)
(Edited)
These immigrants CAME AND MILKED THE SYSTEM
#51. To: abraxas (#30)
If Luis loves this nation so much and wants citizenship SO MUCH, he can join the military and go fight wars for empire.
#52. To: Red Jones (#50)
#53. To: Flintlock (#31)
Tancredo
#54. To: Red Jones (#50)
(Edited)
I am privileged to know illegal people who do extremely hard physical jobs in the hot sun and for very low wages.
#55. To: Flintlock (#31)
obama and his open borders are the radicals, not Tancredo
#56. To: X-15 (#48)
That knocks the legs out from under every argument for me to obey the laws of the land. If "they" get rewarded for breaking federal laws then what's to stop me from assassinating Congressmen for giving them amnesty??
#57. To: James Deffenbach (#32)
(Edited)
I don't think we really need any new immigration for a while, at least a decade.
#58. To: Red Jones (#57)
#59. To: Red Jones (#51)
They're not doing that any more. I've spoken to illegals who told me they tried to get in and could not get in because of their illegal status.
#60. To: James Deffenbach (#40)
the illegal immigration that Eisenhower dealt with was very small in scale to today.
#61. To: Red Jones (#60)
#62. To: James Deffenbach (#15)
#63. To: Red Jones (#60)
sounds like maybe your source could not really nail down how many.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#64. To: Red Jones (#60)
Someone above speculated that 20% of mexicans live in the US. It all depends on what year you use as the baseline to measure the mexican population.
#65. To: abraxas (#52)
You find me ONE, just ONE anchor baby that the birth was paid for by the PARENTS and not the taxpayers.
#66. To: abraxas, Red Jones (#64)
You don't need to go back to 1830 to calculate, just use CURRENT data and do a simple percentage calculation.
#67. To: Red Jones (#65)
Medical care is getting more and more difficult for us to pay for
#68. To: abraxas (#54)
none worked an iota harder than me.
#69. To: abraxas (#54)
This system isn't broken, it is NOT ENFORCED.
#70. To: Red Jones (#68)
it seems that you hired illegals.
#71. To: Jethro Tull (#56)
Either illegal is what the word means, or it doesn't.
#72. To: Red Jones (#42)
1. If you vote for these republicans, then you're voting for high levels of immigration.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#73. To: abraxas (#58)
Red, if amensty FAILED to fix the problem in 1986, what makes you think repeating the same mistake will have different results this time around?
#74. To: Jethro Tull (#61)
Should we boot those illegals who are currently incarcerated at taxpayer expense?
#75. To: Red Jones (#73)
You're more an enemy of mine than the illegals because you are a citizen without a brain that can easily be stampeded by propaganda into supporting something bad. I'm sick of my fellow Americans being so feeble and dysfunctional. 24 years went by, it was a major deal to our country, and you don't even know what happened, but you're going to spout at me.
#76. To: Red Jones (#42)
James, I had a neighbor named Jesus who was 31 when he moved away and I lost track of him & his family. His wife named Josie was American Indian. Is that american enough for you?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#77. To: James Deffenbach (#63)
better not plan on participating in any protests to tell the government
#78. To: Red Jones (#73)
You're more an enemy of mine than the illegals because...
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#79. To: Red Jones (#43)
I think it means I did a good job in presenting my case with words. thank-you.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#80. To: abraxas (#64)
The population in Mexico is 110 Million, so it only takes 22 million in this nation to reach that 20% mark.
#81. To: Red Jones (#45)
They already have tunnels, lots of them have been found. The only way to stop the illegals is to punish the employers for hiring them.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#82. To: Red Jones (#46)
But I think that existing illegals should be turned into citizens.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#83. To: abraxas (#67)
because we are subsidizing MILLIONS of ILLEGALS.
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