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Title: Arizona: A “Revolutionary” Line in the Sand?
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CanadaFreePress.com
URL Source: http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/26124
Published: Aug 4, 2010
Author: Doug Hagmann
Post Date: 2010-08-04 10:10:35 by Eric Stratton
Keywords: None
Views: 1162
Comments: 144
Arizona: A “Revolutionary” Line in the Sand? I believe that history will show that the passage of SB 1070 by Arizona, and the federal government’s lawsuit to stop its implementation will be regarded the first battle of the 21st century American Revolution. Although not a single shot was fired- yet, the battle lines have clearly been drawn. Never before in the modern history of our country have all of the elements been in place for a war between our government and the citizenry of the United States. We stand at a proverbial and historic flashpoint as Obama plans to use the foot soldiers created by “comprehensive immigration reform,” whether achieved by law or mandate, to implement his socialist agenda for America. Transforming the United States into a socialist nation While the process of transforming the America known by our parents and grandparents to a socialist colony has been in progress for a half-century at the hands of Marxists, Socialists and Progressives, the Obama administration has put the Balkanization of America and the polarization of its citizens along racial, political and ideological lines on the fast track. And at least for now, he’s got the backing of Congress to advance his agenda of radical change. That was never so evident than on May 20th when the dictator of a corrupt, third world country was given a sickening, treasonous standing ovation in the halls of Congress for attacking the proposed legislation of an American sovereign state to uphold the laws of our country. Regardless of whatever legislative support he might currently enjoy, evidence has shown that he is actively considering a back door strategy that would circumvent the need for congressional approval. More importantly, it would also circumvent the need for approval from the citizens of the U.S. Once in place, the amnesty of millions of illegal aliens in the U.S. would create a formidable electoral force to keep the Progressives in power under the pretext of free elections. The talk of altruistic motives of immigration and the joys and benefits of multiculturalism is nothing more than a smokescreen for power and control on the path to transforming the United States into a socialist nation. Hart-Celler Act, Chain Migration To understand how we got to this point in our national history, the groundwork for the transformation of our country was laid in 1965 with the passage of the Hart-Celler Act, which was signed into law by then President Lyndon Johnson. As Mark Levin details in his best-selling book Liberty and Tyranny, that single piece of legislation, as part of the Great Society, laid “the foundation for radically altering the character of American society and the relationship of the governed to their government.” During the debate of the bill on the floor of the Senate, Levin noted that Senator Kennedy insisted that the ethnic mix of the U.S. would not be changed, nor would America be inundated with immigrants from any one country or area.” In his assessment of the debate, Mark Levin wrote “it is hard to believe that they were not intentionally deceiving the public.” Indeed. That bill caused a significant change in immigration that essentially created the current situation in the U.S. It introduced “chain migration,” which radically altered the “historical basis for making immigration decisions.” As written by Mr. Levin, “The emphasis would no longer be on the preservation of American society and the consent of the governed; now aliens themselves would decide who comes to the United States through family reunification (emphasis mine). The act also eliminated national quotas for immigration, opening the floodgates for immigrants from Mexico, Central and South America. Consider that as a result of the 1965 immigration reform and deliberate lack of immigration enforcement, nearly 1 in 3 immigrants living in the U.S. today is here illegally. Additionally, legal immigration increased from 2.5 million in the 1950’s to over 10 million in the 1990’s. In 2007, the immigrant population in the U.S. reached a record 37.9 million and today accounts for 1 in 8 of all U.S. residents. In contrast, immigrants accounted for 1 in 21 of all U.S. residents in 1970. 9 percent of the population of Mexico resides in the United States According to a 2004 report by the Pew Hispanic Center and detailed in Liberty and Tyranny, roughly 9 percent of the population of Mexico resides in the United States. Fifty seven percent of all illegal immigrants are Mexican, and another 24 percent are from other Latin American countries. In less than 40 years, it is estimated that Hispanic school-aged children will comprise the majority of public school students in the U.S. While many proponents of immigration argue that the immigrants are here to assimilate and contribute to the United States, a 2008 study by the Manhattan Institute determined that the current level of assimilation is at a record low. Perhaps this is most evident by the fact that more than 55 million individuals living in the U.S. speak a language other than English, including over 34 million who speak Spanish. It is evident that assimilation is not a priority. The establishment of ethnic conclaves within the U.S. is an example of the lack of desire to assimilate into the fabric of American society. In addition to the social and cultural effects of immigration as a whole, illegal immigrants are being aided by our own government in transferring money out of the United States. In 2006, illegal aliens sent an estimated $45 billion from the U.S. to their countries of origin. Last year, thanks to the assistance of the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury, Mexicans alone living and working in the U.S. transferred between $21.9 and $25 billion to the Mexican economy. Under the program called Directo a Mexico, U.S. commercial banks enable illegal aliens to transfer money through the Federal Reserve’s own automated clearinghouse, which is linked to the Mexican central bank Banco de Mexico. The illegal alien is also given an ATM card that can be used in Mexican banks in the event of their deportation. The outflow of U.S. dollars to Mexico The outflow of U.S. dollars to Mexico is second only to Mexico’s oil industry in the amount of revenue produced. It should be no wonder, then, that the Mexican government has no interest in working with U.S. authorities to secure our border or to enforce our immigration laws. In fact, it is the ultimate goal of the global elite to erase our borders and implement a “North American Union” as a step to achieving global governance. Illegal immigration is a big business, and not just for Mexico. It is estimated that $18-25 billion is spent by state governments on welfare programs to illegal aliens each year, and about $2.2 billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs for illegal aliens. And additional $2.5 billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. The drain on the American economy by individuals living illegally in the United States is a significant threat that will lead to our demise. There should be no doubt that illegal aliens also pose a security risk to our country. First and foremost, they are living and working in this country illegally—contrary to the laws of the United States. And contrary to the Progressive party line, the proponents of multiculturalism, and civil rights and advocacy organizations that subjugate the rights of Americans to their own agendas, crimes committed by illegal aliens are statistically higher than legal immigrants or U.S. citizens. In 2005, the Government Accountability Office released a study it conducted of 55,322 incarcerated illegal aliens. The study population averaged 8 arrests each. Ninety seven percent were arrested more than once, and 26% had over 11 arrests each. Each illegal alien averaged 13 separate offenses and 24% of those offenses were for drug crimes. About 12% were for murder, robbery, assault and sexually related crimes, and 21% of offenses were immigration offenses. Other offenses included property related offenses, traffic violations, fraud and obstruction of justice. Illegal aliens arrested for less serious crimes and released pending a hearing at a future date often fail to appear. According to US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, there were 557,762 fugitive alien cases were listed as “unsolved” at the end of 2008. Furthermore, illegal immigrants with extensive criminal records and multiple deportations are often permitted to remain in the U.S. by activist judges who are sympathetic to their plight. The rampant problem of illegal immigration can easily be solved not by creating new legislation or enacting a complex system of immigration reform. As we observed in the weeks leading up to the implementation of SB 1070 in Arizona as law, the mere threat of realistic enforcement was sufficient to cause an exodus of illegal aliens from that state. As illustrated by the incoherent ruling of a political hack legislating from the bench, Arizona’s attempt to secure their state was undermined in a crafty and carefully executed political ploy. It is no coincidence that the appeal process will extend beyond the November midterm elections. It is the political hubris of a socialist dictator imposing his agenda against the will of the majority of this country’s citizenry. National Council of La Raza, John McCain, Hillary Clinton The failure to effectively address the issue of illegal immigration is not limited to any one political party; many Republicans as well as a vast majority of Democrats are complicit in failing to secure America’s safety and sovereignty. Consider that the National Council of La Raza, the largest Hispanic advocacy group in the United States, honored Senator John McCain in 1999. During her presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton appointed a senior member of La Raza to her staff, and Obama appointed a La Raza leader as the director of the Office of Internal Affairs. Undoubtedly, this virulent pro-amnesty group enjoys a significant influence over public policy in American government. Funding of this group finds numerous foundations and individuals who espouse and promote a global ideology and “one world governance” over national sovereignty as key contributors. Despite the above statistics, those who demand immigration enforcement and the rule of law are often labeled as racists and xenophobes. American cities and states like Arizona are reeling from the adverse financial and social effects of illegal immigration and unfettered legal immigration. They lack help from the federal government, which is more intent on creating an electoral majority to ensure the continuation of their power to facilitate the socialist makeover and takeover of the United States. Obama and his justice department are siding with criminals against the citizens of America. Arizona is attempting to restore order to a system of chaos created by the federal government. Instead of welcoming the help and choosing to uphold the U.S. Constitution, the Obama administration is imposing a socialist dictatorship and has drawn a line in the Arizona sand. The question is now whether that line becomes “Ground Zero” for this century’s American Revolution—a fight against the Balkanization of our country, and the eradication of our borders, our sovereignty and ultimately, our nation. As noted by one Arizona Sheriff, “our own government has become our enemy.” The question is how, if and when law-abiding, patriotic American citizens will choose to engage that enemy. For the sake of our country, acceptance and acquiescence is not an option. Copyright © Douglas Hagmann Douglas Hagmann, founder & director of the Northeast Intelligence Network, and a multi-state licensed private investigative agency. Doug began using his investigative skills and training to fight terrorism and increase public awareness through his website.
By Doug Hagmann
August 3, 2010
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#1. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
At least some of the sheeple are waking up.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
This is the key to successful multi-generational brainwashing that targets European-Americans. It has succeeded, there will be NO rioting in the streets by white people in America. Ever.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
SB1070 is business as usual. That law does not require employers to check to see if the people they are hiring are legal or illegal. It does not provide for penalties to employers who hire illegals. Therefore, it has no real significance in keeping illegal immigrants out. If implemented it will result in selective petty harassment of a small minority of existing illegal immigrants in my state. The bill is emotional terrorism designed to support a federal immigration reform package that will bring in many millions of guest workers over a long period of time. This is a Republican bill, sponsored by republicans, passed by repubican legislators and signed by a republican governor. It does not penalize employers for hiring illegals. and it makes no distinction between people who have been here for a long time and those who come tomorrow. Consider a fellow named Luis whom I met in March. He's 17 years old. He came where when he was 3. He speaks perfect American english. He graduated from an American high school. In his mind he is American. He has a wife and a child. and he is illegal. His wife is illegal, she's just like him, grew up here, but is illegal. Luis has had 3 encounters with police who asked him his legal status. The first 2 times he lied and said he was legal. The police believed him because of his perfect american english. The third time he was on a greyhound bus and it was federal ICE police who were interrogating every passenger. He chose not to lie this time. But he told the police that he had been here since age 3 and that he had a wife and child. The police did not arrest him out of sympathy. Should Luis be sent back to Mexico. Somewhere that he doesn't even know or remember? There are huge numbers of people in Arizona who are like Luis. We can't send them home unless we let them stay here. This is their home. The funny thing is that our laws allow them to become legal if only they can afford to pay the legal fees. They can't. SB1070 does not make any effort to stop new illegals from coming here to be hired. I know people who hire illegals even today. I'm with Ronald Reagan. Let all the illegals who have held down a job or who have any roots here at all, such as time in an American school, let them stay here and become citizens. If they choose not to become citizens,then send them home. But let them have the chance to stay. They came here because the law allowed employers to hire them. Blame us for that, not them. and at the same time stop all new illegals from coming. How do you do that? You penalize the employers for hiring illegals. SB1070 does no such thing. Here in Arizona there are many communities filled with illegals. There are many businesses who have valuable employees that are illegals. We're supposed to tear apart our society's fabric and do unjust things by kicking these people out? We're supposed to tell little children that they didn't want their daddies anyway and simply take that man away from his family. But we are supposed to simultaneously bring in guest workers who are like slaves and will be alienated from our society because they are like slaves. Such people who want such things are undesirables themselves.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
And yet, I still see neocons firmly entrenched in their ignorance. Mr. Eric, I'm sure you're familiar with the Chuck Heston-E.G. Robinson film, SOYLENT GREEN. As the people at street level were clashing with riot control thugs over reduced rations of the "little, green energy snack bars" that sustained them the wealthy lived in plush, sound proofed, penthouse tower apartments, and they were comfortably isolated from the squalor below. Frankly, the industry big shots who employ 3rd world mohados in fields and factories couldn't care less about the changing face of America. The lizards' preferred vacation, golfing, boating and recreation spots will continue to be well guarded (the only chupacabras being groundskeepers, cooks, maids and busboys) and will always provide the necessary recharging of elite batteries after a hard two months of counting their cash receipts and "rewarding" congress for continuing the unchecked invasion and assuring that their corporations pay little or nothing in taxes. 80% of the corporate taxes sent to Federal Reserve Banks now come from payroll withholding including employees with "suspicious" SS and green cards. ("According to your papers your name is Ling Chao Wang and you require a Spanish interpreter, right? OKAY YOU'RE HIRED!") Workers now pay their employers' corporate privilege/franchise taxes which is why corporations are all too happy to pay for their packrats' and accountants' labor intensive services as "de facto revenue agents" The day we succeed in checking the invasion is the day congress will begin working on allowing them to immigrate legally as long as a campaign/party "contributor" has jobs for them. "Hell, ah don't really need them workers but at these prices ahm gonna open another factory just to take advantage of this heah cheep labor!" In short, we ain't gonna sneak up on or otherwise honeymoon on the fat hairy asses of the wormy rich. You can spot em' by their gas guzzling luxury SUVs sporting the BUSH CHENEY stickers on one side and the open space for SARAH PALIN (who has already telegraphed that "corportude is next to Godlitude") on the other.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Both Luis and his wife were given an education paid for by US taxpayers. I would venture to bet we also paid for other entitlements through his and her duration in this nation. Now AT 17 he has an anchor baby......no accident there I'm sure. And WE PAID for the birth of HIS child. WE paid for the formula and the diapers and the ongoing healthcare. This "poor" illegal surely isn't footing the bill to raise this kid. And you EXPECT us to foot that bill. If we refuse we will get fewer and fewer cases like Luis to consider. Nobody forced Luis to have a child at 17. In fact, you want to reward irresponsibility. I didn't have children that the US taxpayers foot the bill for, so I don't believe I should pay for Luis and his offspring. You want the lot of us to feel sorry for Luis and his illegal parents and his illegal status. Well, I feel that we've paid and provided enough. If he isn't on a path to citizenship by now, he NEVER will be. It's just not THAT important, as it wasn't for his parents. Why bother when all the goodies are available without citizenship?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Good that he's finally seen that but it hasn't just happened in the last few weeks or even the last few years. The government became the deadly enemy of Americans a long, long time ago.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. No, we tell the little children that daddy broke the law and trespassed and that there are consequences for trespassing. Something the little dears need to learn and sooner rather than later. If "babydaddy and babymama" really mean what they say with all that caterwauling about "breaking up the family" they can (and should) take their anchor babies back with them.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Both Luis and his wife were given an education paid for by US taxpayers. where I live the local public schools are 90% mexican. Many of those children are themselves illegal or children of illegals. You take away those children and you are literally taking away a significant part of our community. I don't think responsible governments just export their people en masse like that. And WE PAID for the birth of HIS child. I'm under the impression that his parents worked and therefore would have paid taxes. Many people like to assert that illegals work for cash only. In my experience this is completely false. Few employers pay them cash. Most employers have them on the regular payroll which means they pay taxes. why do you want to take away our tax base? We are a struggling state in terms of money? That fellow Luis himself worked, paid taxes. Nobody forced Luis to have a child at 17. The mexicans like to produce children and they start early in life. If you antagonize them, then you are dividing our country up and causing horrible grudges that will haunt us for many decades. They are becoming the majority in many locations whether you or I like it or not. If he isn't on a path to citizenship by now, he NEVER will be Luis told me that a lawyer told him that he could get papers to make him actually legal. But that the fee was way beyond his means. He'd like to be a citizen. This is his country. Government's laws & policies should serve the people who are here. These illegal immigrants were allowed to come. They came. They sincerely contributed and became a part of our community. If government wants to serve the people, then it should serve these people. Government should not be used as a club to bash the people over the head. These people do not belong in Mexico, they belong here. They should be aggressively recruited to be citizens with full rights. In this way they will become loyal and good citizens. Republicans literally want to kick them out and replace them with guest workers. Guest workers are like slaves with no rights. It does not benefit us to have such people here. Let all the people who live here be free. Remember the German Hessians who were mercenaries in service to the king of england during our revolution? They came here to fight against us. And yet well over half of them stayed and became Americans. that is what we need to do with the mexicans and other illegal immigrants. Another main priority should be to stop new illegals from coming. SB1070 makes no effort to stop new arrivals. Lots of illegals have decided to live here even though they can be sent to Mexico merely by a police encounter. They go years without speaking to a police officer. And a lot of the police officers won't even enforce that law. But when they live here under a murky legal status they will hold a deep grudge that will last for decades. I'm becoming the minority here, this does not help me. I wonder why my fellow Americans have abandoned me - it seems. one of my mexican associates (Ivan) did have a police encounter about 3 weeks ago. He was sent back to Mexico. who knows what Ivan did to achieve the police encounter. But most of them have a steely determination to avoid police encounters and to simply deal with the police by being otherwise law-abiding and polite. and you know what the large majority of them will survive under SB1070 with that strategy. SB1070 is only emotional terrorism, it is not a serious effort to have a real effect.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Ideas like those are what is turning America into a $#it hole, Balkanized nation with 200-300 languages. Of course they belong in Mexico, they are effin TRESSPASSING! What part of that don't you get? If the government laws and policies should serve the people who are here and you include all the illegal aliens in that, what is your cutoff point? How many tens of millions of Chinese or Russians would be acceptable under your plan? How about people from Zimbabwe and Zaire or the Congo? Or is it only illegal alien Mexicans who get your sympathy? If the illegal aliens actually want to be Americans--which I doubt very much--let them get in line behind people who have been trying to come in with visas and passports and some of whom have been in that line for years. You want to reward trespassers. What would you do if one of them broke into your house, invite him for dinner and to spend the night or whatever amount of time he wanted? If you wouldn't then why should any other American?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Yeah, even the ones among them who are robbers, murderers, rapists and drunk drivers. LOL! Your story should start "Once upon a time."
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. It *might* be because of your sympathy for people who are willfully and knowingly trespassing in America. Try it in Mexico and see how their government deals with you.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. that is American slang and reflects an American mentality. The mexicans form families with mothers and fathers who are married. Their children will not see adherence to the law as being important compared to their families. You will create permanent division in our country that will harm us if you take away one or both of their parents. The mexicans are very family-oriented. Sometimes daddies don't come home from work because they were arrested at work and then deported. Your conscience will tell you that this is a crime. These people were desperate when they came here. They found a home here and built a life. They are comfortable here. They want to stay. They will only be against us if we are hostile to them. Their children grow up with an American mentality. Almost always they speak english. Usually their children speak english as a first language. Lots of children of mexican illegal immigrants don't even speak spanish. The only way we can stop their assimilation is to be hostile to them. The illegals themselves almost all try to learn to speak english. Obviously, in my personal life and in my work life, I am friendly to the Mexicans I know. I could turn some of them in to Sheriff Joe on his web-site. I won't do it. Experience has shown that very few people in Arizona will do it. the only way to deal with the situation is to let them stay and be citizens, at the same time make the employers stop hiring new ones and that can be done. We've never even tried to do these things. The alternative is guest workers. We don't want guest workers. That is like slavery in our country.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
If the illegal aliens actually want to be Americans--which I doubt very much--let them get in line behind people who have been trying to come in with visas and passports and some of whom have been in that line for years. i couldn't agree with you more. what the hell, are we to take in everyone on the planet?
I don't know how old you are or how much history you know but it is just plain bs that we can't deport large numbers of illegal aliens and should be about doing it. Eisenhower had Operation Wetback and deported a million illegals and illegal immigration had dropped 95% by the late 50's. www.csmonitor.com/2006/07...01-coop.html/%28page%29/2 You don't seriously suggest that with all the advances since the 50's that the illegals can't be found and taken so far into Mexico that they won't cross back into the country the same day, do you?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. no, letting the illegals become citizens will not balkanize our nation. It will unite us. e plurubus unum. But persecuting them will cause balkanization. The vast majority of the people who identify with the mexican heritage are not illegals. They are legal. They will stay here no matter what. Regarding the language thing - here is an interesting phenomenon. The illegal immigrants themselves all want to learn english and try to do so. Many are not successful. But their children always grow up speaking English. The problem with the language is simply that the local governments, the local schools and many big corporations that employ people are forcing people to speak spanish. If these institutions favored english as they should, then we'd have no problems whatsoever regarding language. English speaking people are being forced to speak spanish. You can't be an employee of the city of phoenix unless you make a personal committment to learn spanish and speak spanish over a period of time. They will fire you. The same is true inother cities and at big corporations. That is where the language conflict comes from. I have witnessed young people of Mexican heritage speaking unhappiness that they are being forced to speak spanish when they don't speak spanish. I've listened to parents say that their english speaking child sits in a public school where spanish is the only language spoken by the teachers. this balkanization is being imposed on us. It is not what the illegal immigrants even want. They enjoy the job advantages in that employers favor people who speak both languages, but even they don't go along with this balkanization. if you favor the republican solutions, then you favor guest workers. that will balkanize us because those people will be alienated from us because they will not be equals in their legal status. we as a people will gain nothing from that.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Yeah, and all the illegals here taking American jobs and living off the Americans who are working is just peachy keen. They are NOT "citizens," they are ILLEGAL ALIENS. What part of that do you not get? Why is it so hard for you to understand? Do you think you could go into Mexico without any paperwork, uninvited, and then work there, demand all kinds of benefits and protest against the government talking about how unfair they are to Americans? Try it and let us know how it works out for you.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Thank you, christine. And of course there is no way that America can take in everyone who wants to come. It is ridiculous to even suggest such a thing. It is even more ridiculous to plead the cause of people who pay no attention to the border, who think they have some right to be in America because of some bs fairy tale about Aztlan, a place which never existed except in the minds of people who want to take something that is not theirs. And how people who claim to be Americans can support that I have no idea.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I favor deporting illegal aliens. I don't favor any "guest workers," at least not until each and every American who wants to work and will work has a job. Then, if there is any leftover work, maybe after they are properly vetted and don't have criminal records. We as a people gain nothing from having 20-30 million illegal aliens living amongst us either and that's a fact. It's a losing proposition, at least for Americans.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I don't think we really need any new immigration for a while, at least a decade. I think we should generally clamp down and only allow a lower level of immigration and only for the sake of family reunions. I think that we should not issue any new work visas. I think that putting people to work and building an atmosphere of opportunity for the people who are here should be considered a priority. you know the Colorado congressman named Tancredo made a name for himself in opposing illegal immigrants. He also introduced legislation to congress where the government would set targets for the wages in many categories of work. Then government would issue work visas to employers who hire people in those work categories. And those employers would bring in people in those work categories until the wage targets set would be the same as the actual average wage in that category. He wanted to bring people in specifically to lower wages. That was in his legislation. You follow these republican radicals who want these guest workers, it will balkanize our country. We need free people in our country, not different categories of people based on race or national origin. and we don't need government giving employers their employees from foreign sources.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
you're mistaken. I'm just in the middle of a situation where I am becoming a minority and the majority is being made hostile to me. I'll say it again (and again). the law was made in washington in 1986 to allow employers to hire them without penalty. I did not make that law. I wish that my fellow Americans did not allow that law to be made. I wish that employers today would be sanctioned for hiring new arrivals who are illegal. The government in washington and my fellow Americans have let me down severely.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I'm under the impression that his parents worked and therefore would have paid taxes The mexicans like to produce children and they start early in life HUGE tax saving will come from deportation. If I ANTAGONIZE them? WHT?? I expect them to ABIDE BY THE LAWS as I AM SUPPOSED TO ABIDE BY THE LAWS. Who cares if they hold a grudge? Get over it. Sheesh, we have 20% of the Mexican population in this nation now, they need to go home and make Mexico livable. If they paid taxes they did it on STOLEN SSC's. Somebody is a victim in THAT crime, not the illegals that's for sure. I call BS on your "impression" anyway. Stick with the facts. Why don't you pay for the fees of Luis if you really do CARE so darn much? Why don't YOU personally do for him what he "cannot" do for himself? That would be much more productive that EXPECTING everybody else to pay for him and his kids and his citizenship. You can repay the state of AZ the $10K for the birth of his child while you are at it. They would "produce" a lot less if they had to pay for the births and NOT the US citizens. I can't believe you support such lunacy. YOU pay for it if you think it's so great. Yada, yada. These immigrants CAME AND MILKED THE SYSTEM by having dupes like you and me pay for their anchor babies and for their education and for their health care and for their welfare. THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT SHOULD SERVE ITS CITIZENS, not the US government. I don't expect Mexico to serve me, do you? That's more lunacy. PS--If Luis loves this nation so much and wants citizenship SO MUCH, he can join the military and go fight wars for empire. Of course, YOU can pony up the fees and keep him out of harms way. Ivan could have done the same, or IF you really cared for Ivan you could have paid his way too. YOU pay if that's what YOU believe, just quit expecting the lot of us to foot the bills.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I'd call you an idiot but that would be a complement obama and his open borders are the radicals, not Tancredo
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
That is what I would call a bold statement of the obvious. We most certainly don't need any new immigration, the government needs to get serious about deporting the illegal aliens already in America. I would say that people who may have already been in line for years should get first consideration over the people you keep taking up for who didn't think they should get in any line except in the front of it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Who the hell are YOU to impose YOUR outmoded, pious cultural standards on a poor-but-proud pioneer-immigrant from another country?? It's Our Duty to "lift up" those who can't benefit from the white privilege that is a stain on this nation. Shame on you. Shame. On. You. ;-)
__________________________________________________________ Maybe you should consider moving but be sure and sign your home over to some illegal aliens first. After all, they're good folks (according to you) and they probably should have your house.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Great post, abraxas.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I know a guy from Honduras. He's illegal. He lives in a single family house nearby with a wife and kids. Leave him alone. He paid for that house with the fruits of his own labor. He pays taxes. We should not be hostile to him. The time to stop him was when he first came here. The opportunity to stop him was when he first came and looked for a job. The employer had no fear in hiring him though it is easy to determine who is legal and who is illegal. We should've penalized that employer. If we'd done that, then he never would've come here in the first place. But he did come here, the employer was allowed to hire him. He's since gotten pay raises and become a significant person to his employer. You know employers will actually shut down if all the illegals were sent home. Does that help us? We're in economic crisis. Our tax base has been beaten up enough. And his child is a student in an elementary school just a few blocks from here. that child doesn't know Honduras. That child is a future American regardless of what you do. the illegal immigration that Eisenhower dealt with was very small in scale to today. If we were to do that today we'd be emptying whole segments of our community and damaging our local tax base. I live in a city where the city council has discussed cutting back on police officers and the police already have cut back in that they won't always enforce some laws as they once did simply due to budget problems. also, I've run into mexicans who are racist towards me. You're advocating a course that will cause persecution against me. The mexican (& central American) illegal immigrants can go either way. They can choose to fit in and be citizens which is what most of them want. Or they can hate us. Many of my fellow Americans are encouraging them to hate me.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
You really should have tried to fit the words 'sweet, innocent, downtrodden, misunderstood, heroic and honkey-debbils' into that post. Then it would've been perfect.
Luis comes before us head bowed, hat-in-hand, a Humble Man of GOD. And the open- border congregation said "Amen".
__________________________________________________________ The hell you say! I thought they were all wonderful, upstanding people who loved everyone, never committed any crimes--well, 'cept for that little blind spot they have about invading other people's countries--and were just outstanding neighbors and friends. But with this new information, that some of them are actually damnable ray-cists I implore you to sign over your home to the next one you meet and just get out. Let them have it and if you have a little money be sure and give that to them too.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. That's bs! There were somewhere in the neighborhood of three million illegals. He deported a million of them and many of the ones they didn't get to self deported. As I said, the illegal immigration had dropped 95% by the end of the 50's. And I believe the government knows where most of them are and could deport them--it isn't like there have been no advances in technology in the last 50 or 60 years.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Oh yeah, you're good. ABE FOXMAN WANTS YOU... to write for the ADL.
James, I had a neighbor named Jesus who was 31 when he moved away and I lost track of him & his family. His wife named Josie was American Indian. Is that american enough for you? Her dad fought in the Vietnam war. They had 5 kids. I watched those kids grow up. This is their home. None of them were born in Mexico. That guy Jesus came here when he was 5 years old. And at age 30 he's still an illegal. He didn't want to go back to Mexico. English was the only language he spoke. I thought if you marry an American, then you automatically get to stay. I believe only if you have the money to pay can you do that. It is not automatic. He was illegal and he was married to an American Indian. His children spoke all english, no spanish. But the local school indoctrinated the children that they were Mexican and tried to shame them into thinking they were mexican and speaking spanish. This balkanization is brought on by our own government policies and by our own fears of them. Imagine, children of an American Indian who say that they are Mexican and not American. the child told me that she was taught that at school. Let's keep the people we have and make them americans. and lets close the door of high levels of immigration. If you vote for these republicans, then you're voting for high levels of immigration. Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is good. In 2006 there was legislation considered in congress and not passed. The Heritage Foundation analyzed that legislation and said it would mean 100 million new immigrants by 2020. all legal. That was republican legislation. Many of those new immigrants would be crimped in their legal status and not really free. What good does that do anyone except employers who want slaves? Why are slave-owners respected? I disagree with you that we should be bringing large numbers ofpeople in. Only small numbers and only for family reunification. None for employers. The same people so keen on bashing the illegals want guest workers for employers. I say lets use free labor only.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
why I appreciate that compliment. I think it means I did a good job in presenting my case with words. thank-you.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Christine, there are people in our country who are today making the argument that our borders should be meaningless, that we should take in everyone. I'm not making such an argument. Over at TPF they made that argument and said I was racist for not agreeing with the no border idea. and the republicans want to let in a hundred million guest workers. You might think the phrase '100 million' is a gross exaggeration. It is not. Over a period of 15 years that is what they want. A few years ago the republicans put forth legislation to do that. The legislation did not pass. but they will try again. Unless we get order on the immigration issue, it is likely we'll go down that path the republicans want. It is best to treat the existing illegals like human beings and let them stay. We should stop new immigration, both legal and illegal. We've never even tried to do that. I repeat, I'll stay with Ronald Reagan on this issue. our failure to deal reasonably with the illegals situation will encourage what you say you oppose.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
back in 2001 I believe or maybe 2002 the federal government went through payroll data from employers all over the country and identified millions of illegals on employer's payrolls. This was done for the sake of keeping social security records clear. It was not done for the purpose of sending them home. It was done so that the government can know how much social security to give them. It is easy to identify who is legal and who is not. The problem is that the lawmakers want to have dysfunctionalism until they pass their big immigration reform package which will mean a large increase in overall immigration and worse than that even special 'guest worker' programs that will in reality be indentured servant programs. I've proposed reasonable solutions that would greatly lower immigration and happen to be identical to what ronald Reagan wanted. a problem is that the people who have been put in front of us in the mass media who say they are against illegals have been disingenuous. Tancredo who wants an endless pipeline of indentured servants and targets the lowering of wages. JD Hayworth who goes on endlessly about how he'll put an army on the border, but never speaks that he will penalize employers for hiring them and instead wants indentured servants to be semi-slaves for the employers. Put an army on the border and you will have a tunnel under the border. They already have tunnels, lots of them have been found. The only way to stop the illegals is to punish the employers for hiring them. Our people have been lied to over a long period on this issue. Don't blame me for that. Did you all ever listen to the talk radio shows that were dedicated entirely 100% to the illegal immigrant issue. That doesn't happen by accident. The entire media is propaganda. They're fanning the flames of division as in divide-and-conquer. At the same time they're failing to inform us on this issue by failing to identify the central problem - that employers are free to hire them. Instead of bashing mexicans those shows should have pointed out in a sober way that employers are perfectly free to hire illegal immigrants. this is incredible dysfunctionalism and we're being ruined by it. those shows encourage people to vote republican and the republicans want guest workers which we should think of as a poison to us.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
that is an unfortunate reality that is too close to me. I favor penalizing employers for hiring illegals. But the 2 senators from Arizona, McCain and Kyl, do not. Neither does my congressman, Jeff Flake is my representative in the House, he is opposed to employer sanctions and he is very strongly in favor of guest workers. Guest workers mean taking our jobs, very similar to illegals. the state legislature here is republican. They refuse to penalize employers for hiring illegals. They actually made legislation to facilitate a guest worker program to be run by Arizona. That legislation failed, but they introduced it. The local republicans here went to the Mexican consulate and were setting it up. The Mexican consulate has a massive list of illegals living here and those people were going to be turned into guest workers. That was republicans. But I think that existing illegals should be turned into citizens. it is hard for me to comprehend that you can't find a qualitative difference between a free person and an indentured servant or guest worker who is not really free to go work for any employer he/she wants. An indentured servant is like a slave. That is bad for us. It drives wages down and creates a bad atmosphere. A free person doesn't harm us in the same way.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Can we at least deport the app 29% who occupy taxpayer space in our prison system?
!!!!!!!!!!! That knocks the legs out from under every argument for me to obey the laws of the land. If "they" get rewarded for breaking federal laws then what's to stop me from assassinating Congressmen for giving them amnesty??
__________________________________________________________ I'm aware that americans are treated badly in Mexico compared to how Mexicans are treated in America in terms of government policy. But our policies are our business and their policies are their business.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I hear stories that they milk the system. If that is true, then you must admit that system is available to them to milk. If they milk it, then I'll have a very limited amount of blame for them because they were allowed to do so. Point is - we have dysfunctionalism in our government, don't blame the mexicans for this. do welfare agencies figure out who is a legal resident and who is not. I hear they don't even care. Why blame me for that situation? I didn't do it. The mexicans didn't do it either. But I must take exception to you describing them this way. I am privileged to know illegal people who do extremely hard physical jobs in the hot sun and for very low wages. Those people I respect. Their employers who are normally white I do not respect. The politicians who refuse to sanction the employers I do not respect. The American citizens who are too stupid to figure out that the politicians will not sanction the employers I do not respect.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I appreciate this conversation with you abraxas. You know a few years ago the military was taking illegals freely and promising them a pathway to citizenship if they serve a certain period of time. They're not doing that any more. I've spoken to illegals who told me they tried to get in and could not get in because of their illegal status.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
If that is true, then you must admit that system is available to them to milk You find me ONE, just ONE anchor baby that the birth was paid for by the PARENTS and not the taxpayers. Just one in all these personal cases that you want to drag out to attempt to evoke sympathy from the lot of us. Until then, just be honest about the MILKING going on. Yes, I want to change the system, not with some amnesty that REWARDS lawbreakers, but a system that STRIPS any freebies from ANY illegal. If they can't pay for anchor baby, then anchor baby isn't a citizen. That will reduce those numbers. I know, how cruel to expect people WHO WANT CHILDREN to PAY FOR THEM. I've never sucked off the welfare teat and I don't want to pay for illegals to suck off of it either. Nor do I wish to pretend they are all pius and wonderful while STEALING SS numbers from citizens, even children. I am priviledged to know LEGAL immigrants. Of all the people in this land whom are against amnesty and this tripe you are pushing, the people who abided by the law and worked for citizenship are most vehmently AGAINST it. These people I RESPECT. You, on the other hand, DISRESPECT evey legal immigrant who has done what was necessary to attain citizenship LEGALLY.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
you're for guest workers to be let in for the specific purpose of driving wages down. Tancredo wanted wage targets. and he wanted guest worker visas for employers in the quantities needed to meet the wage targets. I think that the indentured servant and slavery institutions of the 1600's & 1700's were very bad. Guest workers are the same to me. But I certainly don't agree with open borders. and some of the Obama supporters do. They're psychotic. I'm not an obama supporter. I oppose Obama. and I certainly don't mind if you call me an 'idiot', it is like a badge, an epithet to be happy about when stupid people use it against you. and if you support Tancredo, then you support wage targets and the government bringing in guest workers (slaves) to meet those wage targets, and that means you are stupid. that word is spelled 'S T U P I D'. I'd imagine in your condition you might not know how to spell it. or maybe you just have a piece of flint for your brain. I am sorry. but I am tired of Americans pursuing foolishness and stupidity just because somebody in the mass media coaxed them to do so. Put your psychosis away.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
POINT 1: I occassionally work painting homes, interior and exterior. I've worked with MANY illegals. EVERY ONE OF THEM USED A STOLEN SS CARD. I know because I asked them, every single one I worked with, and none worked an iota harder than me. POINT 2: THESE ARE FOREIGN CITIZENS, not American citizens. This system isn't broken, it is NOT ENFORCED. They have their own RIGHTS in the country of their birth. I have my rights in the country of MY birth. Why is this so hard for you to understand? I don't waltz into Mexico and expect all the rights of a Mexican citizen. That's lunacy.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
unfortunately we have very few good leaders. the sickos among the democrats or the sickos among the republicans are generally our choices. Both parties offer us a bad choice, then they blame the other party for the bad choice that they themselves offerred. and too many americans get caught up in that crap. I've enjoyed the jabs you made at me, and I hope you've not been harmed by the jabs I sent at you. I've tried to point out the great flaw in our policies that have led to our situation. that is, we refuse to penalize employers for hiring illegals. I humbly suggest that we not blame the mexicans (or other illegals) for this problem we've had. It is more our fault than theirs', and especially it is the fault of our leaders. We should blame them. and forgive the mexicans who are today my neighbors.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Exactly. Which laws do Americans get to choose to obey or reject? This is an either/or argument. There is no gray. Either illegal is what the word means, or it doesn't.
That is what I would call a bold statement of the obvious. I was opposed to new immigration 20 years ago. I remember reading in the wall street journal in 1986 that the law just passed was the same as inviting huge numbers of illegal immigrants to come. I wanted the lawmakers to pass a law to penalize the employers for hiring illegals way back then! I only told you I was opposed to any new immigration because you said I favored unlimited immigration. I do not, I never have. I've always been opposed to the work visa programs.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Red, if amensty FAILED to fix the problem in 1986, what makes you think repeating the same mistake will have different results this time around? You ALWAYS get more of what you subsidize.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Balony!! Here's the link for citizenship through military service: www.uscis.gov/USCIS/New%2...rd%20Level%20(Left%20Nav% 20Children)/Military%20-%203rd%20Level/M-599militarynatz.pdf The illegals you have spoken to are blowing smoke up your butt.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
That's bs! There were somewhere in the neighborhood of three million illegals. somewhere in the neighborhood - sounds like maybe your source could not really nail down how many. but 3 million is a lot more than I thought. Perhaps they did kick out a lot more than I thought. Still, we may have 30 million illegals in the country now. could it be done? to kick them all out? From a technical point of view, yes. but it would not be wise. they are an integral part of our communities now. Someone above speculated that 20% of mexicans live in the US. It all depends on what year you use as the baseline to measure the mexican population. California and Texas each had wars with Mexico in the 1830's. And the US had a war with Mexico in 1848. If you go back to those days and measure the mexican population, you may find that over 30% of what was mexico then has come north to the US. If you go back to 1970 and use that year as a baseline, then still an awful lot of Mexico has come north. 30% I would not be shocked by. I read recently that 9% of Mexican citizens live in the US. It all depends on when you start measuring from. But they have steadily been migrating north for a long long time.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Should we boot those illegals who are currently incarcerated at taxpayer expense? If not, why not?
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
They still can't but most estimates put the number between 12 and 20 million and some people say it's more than that. Even if it were "only" 12 million that's 12 million too many. They need to go back home, take their anchor babies and apply to come here if they want to be here. Just like you would have to do if you wanted to move to Mexico. And if you did move there you damned well better not plan on participating in any protests to tell the government there how bad they suck and how mean they are to you. Mexicans get by with that $#it in America but Americans can't do it there.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I did. Just use your own numbers from a couple of minutes ago. There are 30 million illegals, mostly Mexican. The population in Mexico is 110 Million, so it only takes 22 million in this nation to reach that 20% mark. From your own numbers, that's about right. You don't need to go back to 1830 to calculate, just use CURRENT data and do a simple percentage calculation. How will conditions in Mexico EVER improve with so many of their citizens in the US? It won't. Mexico needs their own citizens in their own country, not in this country sending back money to prop up the corruption.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
abraxas ! all I know is that pregnant women go to the hospital or the doctor to get medical care. If they don't have private insurance, then a government insurance picks them up and pays. Or maybe in some cases the hospital pays and the cost is spread through all other fees to everyone. Medical care is getting more and more difficult for us to pay for. and I do not think that either the democrats' open borders or the republicans' guest workers will help that situation. I think it is unfortunate that our government sets policy to drive wages down. I've advocated penalizing employers for hiring new illegal immigrants. That is a policy that would help to stop the downward slide in wages. I would want to advocate other such policies too. such as big changes in trade. we should produce goods and services ourselves and not import more than we can pay for with exports. We're building poverty for ourselves by importing much more than we can really pay for with exports and instead pay for those imports with new debt. This impoverishes us and makes health care much more difficult for many people to pay for. I was very disappointed last year when Obama's health care reform bill did not make any attempt at all to lower the cost of medical care. Medical care is simply too expensive in this country. It is much more expensive here than anywhere else. Why? We should figure out why and make changes. Mexico has much more affordable health care than we have. I read in the AZ Republic about how American retirees go down there and pay a very modest fee per year and get a lot of medical care for what they pay. And that medical program they spoke of was heavily subsidized by their government. I read that a hip replacement in the US costs at least $100,000 and sometimes $125,000. But in New Zealand you get top quality care for the same thing and it only costs $30,000. and nowhere else in the world does it cost anywhere near what it costs here. In India it costs $12,000. Why is our system so expensive? I was very disappointed that Republicans didn't make this a theme. Nobody cared - at all. Don't blame the mexicans for our medical system being so extraordinarily expensive. In Mexico they don't have that problem. I'm not joking, in the US the medical process & procedures are run to make them as expensive as possible. In America you'll go to the doctor three times to solve a problem and you'll have to set an appointment and wait for each time. while for the same problem in foreign countries you just walk in and before you leave they solved the problem for you - and the cost is a small fraction. We have problems in our medical care industry, problems that greatly sand-bag our domestic industries who must compete with foreign competitors and yet almost nobody cares. Certainly democrats and republicans don't care. Instead they all tell us that everything will be better if we put an expensive army on the border. It will not be better and we can't afford that expensive army. We need to figure out how to lower our costs now.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
There were a million illegals in Los Angeles alone ten years ago, there's no way the ten million number currently being bandied about today could be correct. Hell, I'd put the number easily at 30,000 here in Indianapolis, and we're not exactly a border city.
"The people in power will not disappear voluntarily, giving flowers to the cops just isn't going to work. This thinking is fostered by the establishment; they like nothing better than love and nonviolence. The only way I like to see cops given flowers is in a flower pot from a high window.” - William S Burroughs
We're building poverty for ourselves by importing Mexico has much more affordable health care than we have We need to figure out how to lower our costs now. Yeah, because we are subsidizing MILLIONS of ILLEGALS. One little anchor baby and the parents get on the freebie gravy train. Why do you think AZ is so broke? We're building poverty for ourselves by importing ILLEGAL ALIENS. What do you think it costs the lot of us to subsidize 30 million, to use your own number, illegals? Yes, this is why they should have their babies in Mexico. If, as you claim, it is so great, then the illegals should be getting care in their own nation. Let us begin by ending the subsidized free health care for illegals.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
that is nice. painting is very easy work. it seems that you hired illegals. You wouldn't have asked them about their paperwork unless you were the one hiring them. You don't just go walking around the job site and say 'hey are you an illegal?' 'do you use your own SSN or a fake one?' the only people who ask that question are the ones employing them. I wouldn't do that myself. I'm an American. I don't respect people that hire illegals. I respect the illegals, but not the Americans who hire them. I believe in using free labor only. a person who is inherently illegal in his status here is not a free person. they are compromised and you it seems took advantage of this crimped legal status. I resent that deeply. You are not any better really than an ante-bellum slave owner. you may think I'm joking, but I'm not. I wouldn't stop and pick up an illegal on a street corner to mow my lawn. I've never had any problem hiring americans to do common labor. you should be ashamed of yourself for hiring an illegal. I'm serious.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
It is illegal for an employer to hire an illegal immigrant. and it is illegal for an illegal immigrant to be here, also illegal for an illegal immigrant to work here. but according to the law there are potential penalties against the illegal immigrant found here. But the penalties against the employer are either non-existent or extremely light. The federal gov will not penalize them. some states (such as Arizona) will penalize the employers only very very lightly, so light that it doesn't even matter. So there is no law to be enforced that matters other than to just treat the illegal immigrant as a criminal. I don't believe in punishing them, I believe in punishing the employer instead. We don't have laws to do that.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
you it seems took advantage of this crimped legal status I resent that deeply. You are not any better really than an ante-bellum slave owner. you may think I'm joking, but I'm not. you should be ashamed of yourself for hiring an illegal. I'm serious. No, I clearly stated I WORKED with illegals. Why wouldn't I ask? I wanted to know how they got the job. You work with these folks day in and day out and you talk. Since I'm a female and easy to look at, they tell me anything I want to know. They think my broken spanish is cute. So, you wouldn't ask, I WOULD. I have and I did. Stop making stupid ASSumptions. I work at painting to pay for my Masters Degree. I don't believe in government loans, so I work my ass off to pay cash. I don't mind working hard to accomplish my goals. I have NEVER hired an illegal for anything. I'm just one of those Americans who is WILLING TO DO THE SAME WORK AS ILLEGALS. Imagine that. You should be ashamed of yourself for making such STUPID ASSumptions, Red. I'm serious. Epic FAILURE trying to use your guilt trip ASSumptions that you pull out of your butt to make me feel "shame".......lol. Try sticking with the facts instead of manipulation and ASSumptions.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
well that is very nice Mr former police officer. I am one american who has become disrespectful of 'the law'. There are too many laws. There are too many people being thrown in jail. There are too many police officers who are disrespectful to too many citizens. The courts are dysfunctional. Not even 5% of the people in prison got trials. This plea-bargain thing is insane because it circumvents trials. the laws are so selectively enforced. The government is writing 'no-bid' contracts with special companies who in turn charge the taxpayers massively to the point where it is obvious theft. The law has become a joke. this is not the police officers' fault. It is the lawmakers' fault. our laws concerning illegal immigrants were written in a purposely dysfunctional manner knowing full well it would result in tens of millions of illegals among us, knowing full well that it would drive wages down and destroy opportunities for americans. we should not respect laws under these circumstances. Obviously, if we were to do what we should do, then perhaps we'd have a few less lawmakers walking around breathing. Perhaps tarring and feathering should be restored. Perhaps the french revolution is not too radical. but at the same time you and I both know we're not going to do those things. It all means - I can't respect the law.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
2. I disagree with you that we should be bringing large numbers ofpeople in. LOL! The last alleged "Republican" I voted for (for president) was Richard Nixon for his first term. He campaigned that he would get America out of Vietnam. He didn't during his first term and I didn't vote for him the second time. I voted for Ron Paul when he ran as a libertarian in 1988. I don't vote for establishment whores no matter which letter they connect their name to (R or D, it's really the same party). 2. Where did I say we should do that? I don't think I did, only that people who have been waiting in line, some of them for years, should be ahead of the line jumpers. That means illegal aliens go to the back of the line and if they're caught in America again after jumping the line they should go to prison for about six months and told to never, ever return to America or there would be consequences and repercussions.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. you know what Abraxas? I get pretty impatient with stupid people who don't make any effort to see what is happening. How many times do I have to tell you that the law passed in 1986 was intended to pave the way for huge numbers of illegal immigrants to come here. That law made a procedure by which employers could hire illegal immigrants without any penalty to the employer. All they have to do is photo-copy documents with each new hire and store the documents in a file. The new hire signs a paper that says the documents are real. If the documents look real, then the employer is perfectly clear to hire that person even if they are illegal. There were congressmen who stood up on the floor of the house and said that this law would result in a huge black market for fake documents and that illegal immigrants would be hired in large numbers as a result. The wall street journal itself said that this would happen on the day after that law was passed. So you think that if we merely pass a law saying that it is illegal for an illegal to be here and work here that the illegal is supposed to look up our laws and know our laws and obey our laws - when all the employers are cleared to hire them. You think you can come back 20 years later and put the illegal immigrant in jail because they didn't follow the law. People break the law every day. You can't drive down the road without seeing people speed. People break all kinds of laws all the time. You can't enforce laws through the honor system. If we didn't want illegal immigrants to be hired in large numbers, then we should have passed a law requiring that employers check their status prior to hiring them and that the employers be penalized harshly for hiring illegal immigrants. We did not do that. I've advocated legislation considerably different from the 1986 legislation in that I advocate penalties for employers and I advocate forcing the employers to confirm if the person is legal or illegal. Ronald Reagan wanted penalties to employers for hiring illegals. The House of Representatives wanted penalties to employers for hiring illegals. The leadership of the US Senate (republicans at the time) would not allow the legislation to be voted on if there were provisions in the bill to penalize employers. They insisted instead that a procedure was developed to protect employers from harm if they hired an illegal immigrant. Your post indicates that you were not even aware of all this. You're more an enemy of mine than the illegals because you are a citizen without a brain that can easily be stampeded by propaganda into supporting something bad. I'm sick of my fellow Americans being so feeble and dysfunctional. 24 years went by, it was a major deal to our country, and you don't even know what happened, but you're going to spout at me.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I said at the very top that SB1070 is not a revolution. It is feeble stupid dysfunctional law that accomplishes nothing but emotional terrorism. and everybody accused me of loving the illegals. No, I would like a law in arizona that penalizes employers for hiring new people who are illegal. Based on the responses I've received, I am the only one here that actually wants to stop the new illegals from coming in. The people behind SB1070 (republicans) are not intending on stopping new people from coming. and you all are defending that law. should we deport people in prison for crimes like stealing or violence? I think we jail too many people, but if they're incarcerated for a crime like that, then they should serve their time. Anybody who thinks that SB1070 represents the beginning of a revolution is an idiot. and the author of this article above said that SB1070 was the beginning of a revolution. That law is done by the people who rule us and their agenda is to break down our sovereignty and bring many many new people here, but from their point of view they hope not free people. They like slaves. That is what guest workers are.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Need I remind you that it was sold to the people as a means to end ILLEGAL immigration? I think you have laid on the self righteous arrogance thick enough, Red. You blather on about your stupid ASSumptions that have NO RELEVANCE whatsoever. But, when that doesn't work you move in for personal insults. So, I'm your enemy now. Newsflash: belly button lint is of more importance than your personal enemy list. I'm sick of subsidizing illegals. I'm sick of paying for anchor babies. I'm sick of people having their identity stolen. I'm sick of seeing Mexican flags waving in my country. I'm sick of La Raza. I'm sick of this diatribe about how these poor illegals "can't" get citizenship and "can't" be expected to pay their own way. Gee, with the $20 Billion a YEAR they SEND TO MEXICO, I think they could PAY UP if it was of any importance to them. Obviously, IT IS NOT. I am an AmeriCAN and I don't want amnesty for a bunch of AmeriCAN'TS. Talk about feeble and dysfunctional. Sheesh, these people are here for 20 years and STILL CAN'T SPEAK THE LANGUAGE. On the other hand, ALL of my legal immigrant friends and acquaintances are FLUENT. And they are now AmeriCANS, as it should be.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
The American Indian? Sure, she is American enough. Your illegal alien? No. He is not an American at all. Just another criminal who jumped the line ahead of other people.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. you make a good point that Americans are not treated as well in Mexico as Mexicans are treated here. That is very reasonable. But the point I'd like to make on that is that when we Americans protest here in America we are simply not allowed. You are likely aware of the history on protests here in America the last 10 years. There's been 4 or 5 times when Americans did large public protests and were met with police state tactics to stop them from doing so. Americans when they protest are arrested in large numbers. They're beaten. Strong efforts are made to throw them in jail with no legitimate justification for doing so. I remember the big illegal immigrant protest that I think was in 2006. We had I think maybe over 200,000 protesters walking the streets peacefully. and there were very very few police officers. The only police they had were just a very few and they were not dressed in riot gear. They did not assault the mexicans protesting. They did not arrest them. Americans would not have been allowed to protest like that. Our own government has a double standard on that. But it is their agenda to bring lots of immigrants in, to drive wages down, to divide us up and rule over us. Down in Mexico the Mexican government is against the Mexicans too and has done many things to harm them. When the mexicans came out in large numbers to protest crooked elections a few years ago the mexican police came out and eventually killed some mexican citizens to stop those protests.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Sheesh, you need to calm down & take another WetBaxium pill, Hothead Red.
Actually you don't owe me any thanks for that because I didn't mean it the way you took it. And neither you nor anyone else will ever convince me that we need to welcome 20 million people (or 30 million or ever what the actual number is) whose first act coming into the country was a criminal act. I don't get to go into other people's country and work without papers and lots of bureaucracy. Why should they?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I don't disagree with you on that, you can see by my statement above. I was trying to say it may well be higher than 20% especially if you go back in time. Mexico has been migrating north for a long time. I read that of all mexicans in 1848 about 5% lived north of the current border. They would've become US citizens. and ever since then there's been a stream of them coming north. But since the 1980's that stream became a big river. How many illegals are here? maybe 30 million, most estimates are low I believe. and this is after the illegals who came in the 1970's & early 1980's were made legal. and I think maybe only 2/3's are Mexican. However you look at it, a very large portion of the Mexican population has chosen to live in the United States.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Their tunnels, when they are found, should be closed with dynamite. And shooting a few of them when they crossed the border would probably cause the others to hear mamacita hollering for them back at the casa and then turn around and go see what up with mama. I have no problem with punishing people for hiring illegals assuming they know they're illegal. But unless they go after the ones who hire most of them, outfits like Tyson's, nothing will be done about it. A few prosecutions of some of the biggest criminals might get some results. But sure, punish the employers and deport the illegals. Make it fair.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. And that's where I disagree with you. America can't afford to take in every mofo who wants to move from their country. As I said before, does your sympathy extend only to Mexicans? How many million North Koreans should we take in? What about Russians, Chinese, Congolese, Argentinians? How about Cubans? There is a tribe of oppressed people, do you want to take all of them in too? How many hundreds of millions more people do Americans need to take in and support? Cause that's what happens with a lot of them, including the illegal alien Mexicans.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. each individual medical procedure here costs double or more what the same procedure costs just about anywhere else. that is the problem you should focus on regarding unaffordable medical costs. Many americans are uninsured and more every year because of our deteriorating economic situation. Many of the illegals pay taxes and therefore they are no more subsidized than the uninsured Americans who are also subsidized.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Good point.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. And the Mexicans living in the US illegally don't have any problem at all with it no matter how much it costs because they are not paying for it!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. We have an expensive army already. What we can't afford is to have most of them overseas guarding the borders of Iraq and Bum***k Egypt and leaving our own border wide open. We could bring our troops home from all the countries they are deployed, and all at our expense, and put them where they could do some good. A big tall fence with an observation tower about every 300 yards or so with well-armed guards would solve a lot of the illegal immigration problem. Or, we could get the Mexicans to build a humongous rock wall and make sure that the last illegal was on the other side of it when they laid the last row of rocks.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. What part of SUBSIDIZING ALL THE NO PAYS MAKES IT MORE EXPENSIVE aren't you getting? I'm one of those Americans. I AM NOT SUBSIDIZED. Don't preach to me about it. Stop subsidizing ILLEGALS is one measure that will bring down costs. Illegals put down bogus numbers of dependants and end up paying zilch. Why not? It ISN'T THEIR SSN that they are filing on, IF they bother to file. Then they head down to the free lunch line because they aren't making enough to feed the family. They do not spend their earnings in this nation to improve our economy, they send the money to Mexico by the BILLIONS.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
that is an impressive voting record. You're at least a few years older than me - because I was first eligible to vote in 1976. That was a very honorable reason to vote for Nixon in 1968 and also to vote against him in 1972. I know that what you said is true, that Johnson got us in that war and Nixon did tell us he would pull us out. I think he said 'peace with dignity'. but his entire first term he failed to do that. I liked his policy of 'vietnamization', letting the vietnamese do the fighting. but still, the war was bad. I too turned against the republicans, but it took me longer to wise up than you. On the 2'nd point - I accused you of being for larger levels of immigration. I made that knee-jerk accusation because I'm opposed to higher levels of immigration, I live in Arizona where republicans are very strong and they are in fact for higher levels of immigration, especially guest workers. I assumed you were under their influence. not very smart of me. I think the great disagreements among us are partly caused by the disinformation we've received on this issue. People are not aware that we don't penalize employers for hiring illegals, that employers can do it any time they want. and I'm desperately trying to point that out because I feel that is the reasonable solution. Where we disagree is that I don't go along with throwing the existing illegals out. That is a minor point (IMHO anyway) compared to whether we'll have many more illegal or legal immigrants. For 10 years almost every single month the percentage of American adults actually working has declined. Given this fact we should stop nearly all new immigration. That seems obvious to me. Yet the people who make our laws do not see that. and it is true that many Obama supporters do consider me a racist for thinking we should put any controls at all on immigration.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
That would have been a fine time to have rounded up a bunch of those La Raza (racist) ba$tards and sent them back to the land they love so much.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. For 10 years almost every single month the percentage of American adults actually working has declined. Given this fact we should stop nearly all new immigration. That seems obvious to me. Yet the people who make our laws do not see that. and it is true that many Obama supporters do consider me a racist for thinking we should put any controls at all on immigration. A lot of those people that you think should be allowed to stay in America are every bit as racist as any Ku Klux Klan member that ever lived. One of their biggest groups, La Raza, is racist to its core. I am not saying that all Mexicans are bad people because I believe there are both good and bad people in every group. But I also know that America CANNOT take in everyone who might want to move to America and we do have some immigration laws, just like all other countries. If you don't have a border that you will protect you don't have a country. I believe the illegals should be deported and immigration should be on a case by case basis. We don't exactly NEED 20 or 30 million illegal aliens in America, not when so many Americans are out of work.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. he was 5 years old walking across the desert with his mom & dad. and you say he should've ran away from them and stayed in Mexico because of a law made in washington. 5-year olds moving to a new place el norte are not criminals. and when he came of school age he went to school. and as time went on he learned to speak english as his primary language because that is what his friends spoke. by the time he graduated from high school english was his main language. he spoke so little spanish he practically forgot how to speak it. when was he supposed to go home to mexico during this whole process to avoid being a criminal? I guess I just don't blame the illegal immigrants for their crimes enough to think of them as being 'criminal' in a conventional sense. Technically he's a criminal. but no jury will convict a 5-year old for staying with his mom and dad. I tell you in all honesty that none of the illegal immigrants would be considered criminals to be jailed if a jury voted on their fate. a jury might vote to deport them, but not to jail them. Like I told JT, people break the law every day. There's too many laws.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I did get a bit carried away in telling abraxas that she was an enemy. But I had a serious point that was a good point, just got carried away expressing myself too strongly. The people who rule our country are my enemy. Abraxas is not my enemy. I get frustrated that so many of my fellow Americans I think enable this ruling regime that really is my enemy. There is great disinformation. Our people are deceived. I should not blame them for this. We are all imperfect as is evidenced that I got carried away. I also wanted to make the point that the illeal immigrants are generally not my enemies.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Sure there are too many laws. I doubt you would get any argument about that from any sane person. But I think most Americans will argue with you that we don't need a bunch of people who think it is ok for them to just waltz across the border without going through the proper channels. If you think that is ok what makes the border jumpers you are defending better than the people who are trying to get in and doing it the way they're supposed to? I had to get a visa and passport when I traveled outside the US, so are the illegals you are taking up for better than me? And if so why?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. ditto for lots of Americans who get government insurance.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I can't argue with you there. the military spending is also insane.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I agree with you. and I just thought of another aspect of this situation that I'd like to talk to you about. The financial powers in this country are very powerful and their influence means a lot to the people who rule us. or maybe they (the financial powers) are the people that rule us. The financial people have a big problem with housing prices. Because they have a lot of money lent out on homes. They must keep the price of those homes up to support all the loans they made. They feel that we must have a constant stream of new people coming here to support home prices. I don't agree with them. but I think that because of this situation they will feel it is a very high priority to keep lots of immigrants flowing in.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I don't think they're better. But they're here. they cut in line. but they got here. once here, it is hard to send them back. in part because they become a part of the community and you don't want to harm the community. In part because you have to catch them to send them back and after so much time goes by they become more a part of the community. They benefited by cutting in line. it doesn't make them better, but they still got that benefit of being here.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
So the already stressed taxpayers and states, some of whom are cutting back essential services to taxpayers, should pick up the tab to feed, house & provide medical care to criminal illegal aliens? We're broke. We have no more to give. The well is dry. No mas.
If some lawbreaker moves into my community and skirts the law, then they should be ready to pay the price with it comes due. Do you feel the same for the murderer, rapist and theif who happen to get away with it then move into a community that doesn't know what they did? Oh, let them go because it's been so much time. What a lame argument!! Sheesh, subsidizing illegals HURTS the community. Again, why do you think CA, AZ and NY are so deep in the red? Somebody had to pay the bills. If it comes down to paying for US citizens or paying for illegals, I think it's a no brainer which should get priority. So what if they are here? They will go back if the subsidizing stops. You have 30 million Americans out of work right now. We don't need the cheap labor and we can't afford to subsidize them.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
What a coincidence. There's about 30 million illegals here taking jobs away from Americans and about 30 million Americans out of work. We definitely don't need their labor and definitely can't afford to subsidize them, especially since so many of our businesses moved to Mexico. I think we should start billing Mexico for all the costs from their illegals.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Let me tell you about my community that's real cold in the winter. There are people who've lived with no heat from a utility company because they couldn't afford the bill. I personally know of 3 separate households and that's just the ones I know of. Because of illegals, it's hard to find work except through a temp agency. You're emotional pitches on behalf of those who have been pulling our country down to such straits are really not going over well with me.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
While I don't agree with the government being in the insurance business (because the Constitution doesn't confer that power to them), there is one difference. AMERICANS who get government insurance are citizens, not illegal aliens. Or is that irrelevant too?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. It wouldn't be for me. If I were the president for just six months you would not see many illegal aliens in America. They would be back in Mexico or wherever they came from and not just barely across the border either where they could trot right back as soon as your back was turned. And they would be given a strict warning not to ever come back without going through the proper channels like Americans have to do who might want to live there. And told, in no uncertain terms, that there would be penalties for coming back in illegally and they would be enforced.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Nor with me.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Right, at which point they will be divided into two groups; the ultra rich and the ordinary rich, aka the poor. Bill Gates and David Rockefeller will be accommodated and the schmucky owner of White Way Linen Service of Cleveland (who clears a paltry 2 mil a yr) won't.
it should be 'your emotional pitches'. the illegals are human beings. Many have been here for a long time, some over 20 years doing jobs. many have children here. they should be respected. the illegals were invited here by the government that created a legal procedure for employers to hire them. Employers today are not penalized for hiring illegals. there is no serious talk among politicians to make laws causing employers to be penalized for hiring illegals. Instead many politicians want an endless stream of guest workers. Don't blame me for that situation. Ever since 1986 when the government passed a law that allows employers to hire illegals and not be penalized for it I've advocated changing the laws to stop employers from hiring new illegals. I don't see how you could read what I wrote above without picking up on that.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
...and deported in a polite respectful but highly efficient manner....
that is just a fantasy that you have. Many politicians say they are going to turn the illegals into guest workers and they're going to create a pipeline of new guest workers for employers. People who talk like you frequently vote for such politicians. only a small minority of the illegals are being sent back.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2010/05/28/AR2010052804319.html 1070 was "serious talk" regarding the hiring of Illegals. Obama & company stood in opposition. Red, states like yours can't afford the social cost of illegals not to mention the cost of the crime they commit. If you can't get yourself to recognize that predicate illegal felons shouldn't be supported by American taxpayers, I'm on Mars and you Venus on this issue Administration opposes Arizona law that penalizes hiring of illegal immigrants By Robert Barnes Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, May 29, 2010 The Obama administration on Friday urged the Supreme Court to review and set aside an Arizona law that sanctions employers who hire illegal immigrants, saying it would disrupt the "careful balance" that Congress struck in federal immigration law. -Snip
And you're happy that is the case and you voted for politicians who will ensure that unskilled free loading law breakers will stay in our nation taking free welfare, medical, educational benefits while our nation's econmy is nose diving under the weight of high unemployment rolls of US citizens and legal residents. Nice.
JT, I did not advocate giving taxpayer money to illegal immigrant felons. The reality in my state is that we have lots of illegals that have driven down wages and destroyed opportunity, we have politicians who paved the way for that to happen, John McCain voted to let the illegals in in 1986, McCain is still a prominent politician, we have new politicians who want an unlimited stream of guest workers. We don't have any politicial leaders who want employers to have to use citizen labor from within our country. and you all are blaming me for this. But I'm not a politician.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
you're psychotic. it is a simple fact that few illegals are being sent back. I wasn't cheering over that fact. Someone else said that SB1070 would send people back and that I was unhappy over this. I was telling them that very very few are going to be sent back over SB1070 and very few are being sent back.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
My my, red, what bad manners you picked up while sojourning at the nest...
Jethro, that is a headline from a newspaper. The SB1070 law in Arizona provides no penalty at all to employers. Arizona has passed legislation prior to SB1070 that included some penalties to employers for hiring illegals. But those penalties are very difficult to trigger. they start out being so light that on a first offense it is meaningless. then the 2'nd and 3'rd offenses escalate, but they escalate to nowhere. One business on the 3'rd time they were caught hiring illegals was made to shut down their operation for 1 day. and that was after they hired individual illegals back that the government had previously deported. Arizona law is like federal law, it arranges for the illegal immigrant to be punished, not really the employers. We Americans have been the victims of dis-information on this issue for a very long period of time. Back in 1986 it was decided that employers could hire illegals with no penalty. Back then Senator McCain was a congressman and he voted for it. he's still a prominent politician and yet he voted for the illegals to be welcomed here. and he leads the people who are against the illegals. Dysfunctional or what? and none of the politicians are even talking about penalizing employers for hiring illegals. Instead, the talk is to have guest workers and beef up the border.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I can't help it if you're psychotic. you accuse me of things that are from your mind.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
The cost of their incarceration can be googled by state. As I mentioned a few days back, illegals comprise app 30% of the prison population. Did you read the article from the WP I linked above? Obama doesn't want sanctions against businesses who hire illegals. Obama is far from alone; the elite of both parties have us in this quandary. My point is 1070 is the voice of the people. If our vote (see Prop 8 in CA) can be changed by a political connected lawyer in a black robe, we are headed for insurrection. A trust in the voting system is all that keeps us from Banana Republic status.
this article at the top says that SB1070 in Arizona is somehow revolutionary. It is not, it is business as usual. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deceived. SB1070 is emotional terrorism and drama. It will hardly result in anybody deported who otherwise wouldn't have been deported. The vast majority of existing illegals will survive it. The politicians who say they're against illegals are against illegals. They want the illegals to be slaves. That is why they let the illegals come here in the first place. that is why the illegals are allowed to stay. the politicians are planning to turn these people into guest workers. Guest workers are the same as indentured servants. They're here to drive wages down and give the employers a comfortable position where they don't have to deal with labor. This new guest worker institution is going to be permanent. The condition that you despise is becoming permanent. and anybody who speaks against this you will oppose. because you are so deceived. and when anyone tries to straighten you out, you will complain. you'd rather have people lie to you.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
President Obama is not for employer sanctions you said! surprise surprise. He's republican on all the other issues too. I wish that SB1070 were the voice of the people. JT, about 2 weeks ago I listened to a conversation where a sub-contractor was talking about how he had to increase his workforce by 5 men. I listened to the top managers of that small company talk about how to acquire people. This company had decided to hire some Americans in March because of the law. They have since decided to have no fear of the law. SB1070 means nothing in practical reality. the employers still hire illegal. Also, people assume that americans want to kick illegal immigrants out of the country. When Americans are confronted with the choice of reporting illegals or not reporting them, the overwhelming majority of Americans decide not to report them. this is one of the things we've found out in Arizona. Many employers hire illegals. very very few are reported for it. It is easy for government to identify who is illegal by reviewing payroll data. The illegals are not 'off the books', they're right in the main payroll system. I maintain that they should be identified, that those who have been here for any period of time should be given a choice to stay and become citizens or to leave. And that the employers should be heavily penalized for hiring new illegals. this solution that I've given you is the only way we will keep new arrivals out. The 'anti-illegal' politicians are not going to achieve that. They are going to achieve a pipeline of indentured servants which is exactly what we have under the current system where employers can hire illegal immigrants.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
And why am I not surprised that you try to explain away your rudeness with more rudeness? Calling me a psychotic was the only choice you had? Rightttt.... Here are but a few other possibilities you could have contemplated: a. that you did not articulate your point of view very clearly b. that I misunderstood your post etc, etc, etc Carry on, red...btw, nice color choice to include with your net name......
I like a lot of your posts as you seem to understand the root cause of failure for the US (concerning illegal immigration) and so far I have not commented. But your ideas for addressing solutions is SPOT-ON as you have claimed that border security to eliminate the problems should be at the border and not upstream long after the issues manifest. In large part, I agree because it is better to back the illegals at the front door as opposed to long after they have been assimilated within society. But, I have a few comments regarding your recent post: This is true. Missouri has had these forms of state laws in effect for years. Probably true. However, out of the 400,000 pre-existing illegals about 40,000+ have moved out of state, meaning the law SHOWS they are no longer wanted in AZ. I say BRAVO! and if CA would enact similar legislation ( which they have based on Proposition 87)..... however, in CA we have laws already on the books as MO does regarding illegals: Not many want illegals removed from the US. Most want to work some kind of amnesty program which only ensures MORE illegals here. Cheap labor is the crime of capatalism out of control. It certainly appears that way. No one seems to have the courage to deal with the issue unlike Tom Tancredo. I just want the nation to enforce already existing laws. And not look the other way. We are in some troubling times and illegals are not wanted in America .... of course, I have been involved with the MM for years and was on the AZ border to see the issues first hand. It is appalling by first hand rancher's discussions of what illegals do their personal property rights; which is a reflection of how a nation regards property rights as there is little enforcement. edit: added hot link to EXISTING CA code.......
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
psy•cho•sis si-"ko-ses noun pl psy•cho•ses -'sez [NL] (1847) : fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by defective or lost contact with reality i don't think the definition of psychosis/psychotic applies to scrapper at all, Red.
So, according to your logic, if an illegal alien has been in America in violation of the immigration laws for a long time he should be rewarded, while those who have been here a lesser time should be punished? And I suppose if it can be shown that someone has robbed, oh, ten banks and gotten away with it he shouldn't be punished, but if someone else gets caught the first time he should go to prison for life? Ok, I think I see where you're coming from.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. do you see what i mean. framing sb1070 vs a 'socialist marxist nation' when the signer of 1070 , brewer, is an avowed socialist. openly! cops have always been able to check immigration status. it has never been 'illegal'. the u.s. supreme court ruled affirming this decades ago. you are the only ones who comprehend & acknowledge this simple fact. then he quotes MARK LEVIN of all people. levin, rabid bush apologist & jew neocon! hero & leader? ha! this reactionary hysteria outlined in this article is an example of why uh-murika is f-ed.
"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13 your accusations against me are 100% false and it seems malicious too. that is why I will say again that you are a psychotic individual (at best). we wonder why things are screwed up, but we have psychotic citizens trying to play politics. what do you expect?
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Tom tancredo sponsored legislation whereby the US government would set targets for average wages in different work categories. he thinks that to make the US economy work we must be more competitive, to do this government must push wages down. Tancredo's legislation would have government giving employers work visas specifically for the targeted work categories, bringing people in our country to work in those fields until the wage targets are met. In other words Tancredo favors unlimited new indentured servants brought to our country specifically to undermine us. I suggest that people who think Tancredo is a good leader on this issue are horribly deceived. but such is the nature of our discussion on this issue and others. It is not an accident that we are so deceived. consider the idiots who support this SB1070 in Arizona thinking it to be a law that will kick illegal immigrants out. That law only makes people upset. and the employers in Arizona are perfectly free to hire illegals. Take this JT guy, he reads a headline in the Washington Post and it says that SB1070 puts sanctions on employers for hiring illegals. let me explain again - SB1070 does not sanction employers in a serious manner. Employers in Arizona hire illegals every single day. they have no fear from the federal gov or the state gov to do that. and here's all these idiots who say they oppose illegal immigrants climbing on the bandwagon of politicians like tancredo and others who support SB1070. I don't go along with the dysfunctional approaches to illegal immigrants, so this idiot scrapper says I love to have a steady stream of illegals coming into this country. I tell him he's psychotic because he is, and christine lectures me that it is not psychotic to imagine things like that. Is this a dysfunctional group of people or what?
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I can't help it if you can't read scrapper. I've articulated plenty fine. You're simply too lazy and your mind doesn't function well. You make accusations against me that can only be explained as psychotic. Don't blame me.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
In my state, Arizona, the republicans about 2 years ago were on a big kick for guest workers. That legislation did not pass, but it showed how the Republicans are in this state. They wanted a state program for guest workers. The federal government said at that time that it was OK that the state could do that. The mexican consulate assured them they had a very long list of illegal immigrants. these people were going into the guest worker program that was being made and never did become law. the people who support SB1070 support an endless stream of guest workers who are like indentured servants. This is exactly the same as illegal immigration in that it is done to divide us up and to suppress wages. I've said maybe 10 times on this thread that there are no real sanctions against employers for hiring illegals. I've said over and over and over again that I've actually witnessed that employers in arizona still to this very day hire illegals without any fear of penalty. no matter how much communication I do I cannot overcome the psychotic desires of people on this web site. they accuse me of supporting this stream of people coming in that we don't want coming in. You cannot stop them unless you penalize the employers for bringing them in. The politicians who tell us that they will protect us from the illegals also tell us they will bring us a steady stream of employees from foreign sources for employers here. Can anyone point to one single politician of either party who wants to impose real sanctions on employers for hiring illegals? Why don't we have such laws? All these politicians who say they're going to protect us from illegal immigrants, why have they not proposed legislation to punish employers for hiring illegals? We as a people have been lied to massively on this issue. We have almost nobody in the public eye that is on our side. and it is a complication that so many of our people are psychotic and just can't function. look at the idiots jump on this SB1070 band-wagon. how can you have a political movement with no leaders? Who are our leaders that would rather put americans back to work than give opportunity to foreigners to work here? We don't have such leaders, if you will check, the politicians who say they are against illegals are in favor of guest workers. guest workers are poison, yet this is what the anti-illegal immigrant people are buying into.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I had to stop reading your bullshit around post 70. You and your mentality are the reason shots will be fired to resolve this situation. You will need to be included in the illegal group. Your mentality surrendered this nation. Period. Removing illegals will be a great start, but the root cause will need to be dealt with also.
Rojo You long winded nut-jpb To call you an idiot is disrespectful to all the honest idiots in the world.
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
Please link that statement with some verifiable fact. I have NEVER heard of the US government setting wage standards for a given class of citizenship. edit: here is HR4192 by Tancredo (it is the diametric opposite of what you said): "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
sorry, I don't have a link for that on Tancredo. but I believe it to be true and I got that from an analysis of the law he proposed. Very often the people who act like our leaders are our enemies.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Just tell me what year he proposed the legislation, I will find it, just HR4192 which I hotlinked for you.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I wish I knew exactly what year. It was 4-5 years ago. I read an analysis of his legislation and obviously that is where I got this impression. You will also recall that there was immigration reform legislation under consideration I believe in 2006 where the Heritage Foundation analyzed the legislation and concluded that it would mean 100 million new legal immigrants prior to 2020. That legislation they analyzed was sponsored by republicans and supported by President Bush. My congressman, Jeff Flake, has always supported guest workers strongly. all the republicans in arizona support guest workers. and like I said the republicans in the state legislator even put forth legislation for a state guest worker program. JD Hayworth supports guest workers. guest workers are the same as allowing illegal immigrants except that it will be legal and permanent. I don't understand my country-men who do not see a parallel between the guest workers that are coming and the indentured servants of the 1600s & 1700's. When I was in school they taught us that indentured servants were similar to slaves. I cannot abide by my countrymen who say we need guest workers. and when I read on this web site people supporting the arizona republicans' SB1070 I have to feel that these people, my country-men, are horribly deceived. The solution I've proposed is exactly 100% what Ronald Reagan wanted. Jethro Tull says if I don't favor kicking out ALL illegals, then I support the situation where 30% of the people in our state prison are illegals. We have lots of mexican mafia related criminal activity in my state. I did not cause that. and if we respect the illegals who should be respected, then this does not mean that I favor criminals being in my state. Ronald Reagan wanted to forgive all the illegals who have held a job, and let them all have a pathway to citizenship. Reagan also wanted to penalize employers who hired new illegal immigrants. Reagan never achieved this penalty to employers. I've explained over and over and over again - republican leaders in the US Senate would not allow such penalties into the legislation. that is why 25million or more illegals came since 1986. people in america are so stupid, they shout at each other over illegal immigration, but they don't even know (or care) about the traitors among our leaders who let them in. But what I read was the law was sponsored by Tancredo himself. Why should you be surprised. all republicans are for guest workers. the anti-illegal immigrant movement in america is a joke because its leaders are pro-guest workers. either way - take jobs from americans and give it to foreigners. what you all don't like about me is that I say a person who has been here for 10 years and held a job during that time is long overdue for being given permanent legal status here. where else we disagree is that I would like to stop new people from coming here. and the people here on this web site prefer ignorance and dysfunctionalism, to complain permanently without ever doing anything to stop the situation. that is my impression at least.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
you're an idiot. when are the people in our country going to defend themselves? they will never defend themselves from the assault that comes from washington. my state is becoming majority mexican. we're being made to speak spanish. and guys like you just talk and worse yet, you support politicians who want guest workers. You have to actually have some mental discipline to solve problems. this is a huge obstacle for people on this site. and you wonder why the propaganda is so effective. people can't even use their brains.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
you're the only one on this thread who understands what I said. SB1070 was written by politicians who are anti-American. they say that americans won't work and they need to import guest workers permanently as a result. That is what the arizona republicans who were behind SB1070 think. that is what they proposed doing actually about 2 years ago. all our republican federal congressmen & senators are for guest workers too. I'm opposed to guest workers. The people on this web site are like bulls, somebody holds a red flag up to a bull and the bull charges. Somebody says that SB1070 is a movement to stop illegals in support of the American cause. and people believe it, then no matter how many times you tell them their response is that it is just too difficult to read and they don't care, etc. The employers in Arizona today hire illegals all the time with no fear of reprisal from government. you people are complete idiots.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
for what it's worth, i agree it is frustrating when people have knee jerk reactions believing that the govt who created this problem will 'save them'. i have posted so much on brewer, pearce, and mainly the fact that no 'special law' is needed to be drafted by each state in the union in order to 'allow' local cops to id illegals. that is the most inane brain dead bullshit i think i have ever heard. 'but.. but.. they NEEDED TO DO *SOMETHING*!', they will reply. ugh. 1070 is a distraction which invited unneeded federal meddling. perhaps by design. you may know the story of Abdon the AZ truck driver who was detained a few months ago, concretely proving my case that 1070 is nonsense & not legally needed.
"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13 You quoting me: You're emotional pitches You: it should be 'your emotional pitches'. Really? You think that's "emotional pitches"? Gosh, that's my one and only post in this thread among your reams of sympathy for the illegals who've been raiding and hoarding our dwindling inventory of jobs for themselves, while legal Americans are being impoverished to the point of freezing to death due to the drain on our economy -- which you apparently want to blame on everyone but illegals -- and you dare call others here psychotic and idiot? If I wanted to get emotional, I could have gone into monstrous details like the checkpoint here to prevent people from even hauling firewood to keep warm and alive because there might be bugs in it that could harm trees; like the "law" that people can't even sleep in their vehicles with the motor and heater running to keep warm and alive in the winter if they've had a couple of beers and that's the only shelter they can afford due to unemployment, or they don't want to risk their lives and others by driving (especially in bad weather) to a homeless shelter in a broken down piece of junk they can't afford to repair, or risk a DUI ordeal they can't afford -- which can shrink their chances of employability thereafter to practically nil. Judicial genocide is what that is. Then there's the hunting and fishing license laws, for bureaucratic genocide examples, which means you should just starve if you're too poor due to unemployment or under-employment to afford the fees, can't get food stamps, etc., and can't find an open soup kitchen or a food pantry charity; and so on and so on. If you seriously feel a few abbreviated and understated sentences describing extremely critical conditions for legal Americans in my community amounts to "emotional pitches" after all of your melodramatic orations ad nauseum about endangerments to your community of illegals, I'll just smirk at your bleeding- heart booklets on this issue and look for the posts by more rational commentators. There you go again with the violin strings. Americans are human beings too, so are their children whose quality of life largely depends on them as providers, and this is our country. Illegals who have been here a long time blocking jobs from Americans, as well as breaking our immigration laws, do not deserve respect for that from anyone cognizant of the criminal situation who isn't aiding and abetting it like you are. Ever since 1986 when the government passed a law that allows employers to hire illegals and not be penalized for it I've advocated changing the laws to stop employers from hiring new illegals. I don't see how you could read what I wrote above without picking up on that. The Federal government has no Constitutional authority to do anything but prohibit migration and to protect the states from invasion, such as by illegals. Guest workers harm the economy in addition to illegals. Changing the status of illegals to guest workers is like reshuffling to call the same socio- economic drain dilemna a different name. Guest workers should cost employers more than Americans, with the difference going to reparations for Americans thrown out of the workforce by them. I read what you wrote. You are an Enabler speaking out of both sides of your mouth to distract attention from the illegals that employers wouldn't even be able to hire if they wanted to, if they were all arrested and deported like they should be. Your argument amounts to: Americans should endure the abuse of our system by illegals without viewing them as more troublesome than misunderstood whipping posts because they mostly mean well and are just being used by eclectic abusers on-the-loose as the means to bullwhip us into poverty and whatnot through no fault of their own. So, we should do nothing but grin and bear it and reward them -- make more laws for the bad bourgeoise because they'll be sure to respect those monetary threat nuisances much more than our immigration laws and all of the other laws they subvert. Then scofflaws would stop shielding abuser companies profiteering by illegal alien imports, like they cover for other white collar crimes and accomplices. Yeah, sure /s and it seems to be your scofflaw wish to shield every illegally imported "whip" working for them. You want us to embrace those "poor undocumented whips and whipping posts", as you have, like they're our people and respecters of our nation but they aren't and no "Amnesty" moves by rogues or more laws on employers will "make it ok." Done with editing this post.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Just linking some related commentary from another 4um topic here as FYI. The New Teamwork: American Judges and Prosecutors Keep in mind that the feds can do the same to any business, even those businesses that absolutely operate above board in every way. [sic] and don’t think they don’t do this.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
You: it should be 'your emotional pitches' Belated thanks for that typo correction. Now here's some excerpted Reuters news from Florida: Florida AG proposes tougher illegal immigrant curbs By Barbara Liston ORLANDO | Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:38pm EDT ORLANDO (Reuters) - Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum on Wednesday proposed tougher curbs against illegal migrants in his melting-pot state which he said would go "one step further" than a similar contested Arizona law. The legislation will require Florida law enforcement officials to check a suspected illegal immigrant's status in the course of a stop, or a violation of another law. This goes beyond the existing situation in the state where officers are allowed to check immigration status, but not required to. ------------- It goes on to say that there are 11 million working illegals in the US. Probably a low estimate that doesn't even include all the others who aren't working and are on our doles.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
that is the magic ingredient that I would like to see in the Arizona bill and in the federal policy too. Without forcing employers to check immigration status you are just inviting employers to hire illegals. If the employers are invited to hire illegals, then it seems like to me that the illegal immigrants themselves are almost invited here.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Arizona could pass a new law modeled after the Florida blueprint. Maybe it will. Would be good if you could promote that model there some.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
If Arizona passed a law requiring that all employers e-verify for new employees and then gave large penalties to anyone hiring an illegal, then I'd be happy about that. I think it would help a lot of people in Arizona. Most Republicans favor guest workers over free labor. That is their track record. Guest workers are like slaves in that their legal status in this country depends on their employer. In America the employers decide who to give the work visa to, not the government. In the minds of managers working at such companies the guest workers become property. In the minds of the managers the illegals are like property too. You can pay illegals less money than legals. They are also frequently very desperate and will work very hard to hang onto a position even for low pay. It used to be normal that history textbooks taught young americans that slavery and indentured servitude were bad for our country. Free labor is more effective than slave labor. Free labor costs more, but that is good for the economy and you'll have much more progress with free labor. If you don't believe me, then just look at the old south of 1850 and ask why all the successful factories were being built in the north at that time. The south had slave labor, you'd think the south could excel at factories. But it could not. They tried. The factories in the south always were staffed with slave labor because the investors could not imagine that free labor was more economical. Free labor is better in every way than slave labor. We learned that as a nation. and now, it is a lesson forgotten. The Republicans want unlimited guest workers. That is very dangerous to us as a people. A huge group of guest workers in our country would suppress wages for many people, create unemployment and divide our country up. I've tried to communicate to people here that I have personally witnessed trades contractors in the construction industry preferring to hire illegals over Americans. and this is today. They do not fear the law. The law penalizes the illegals themselves for being here, it does not penalize the employers for hiring them. The law should do the opposite.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I could debate with you a long time on the "Civil War" era but check out the link I posted for you to the 4um topic The New Teamwork: American Judges and Prosecutors to see how businesses that hire illegals certainly can be shut down and more for doing so. [Correcting my "dilemna" typo.] Like I said at #137: Changing the status of illegals to guest workers is like reshuffling to call the same socio-economic drain dilemma a different name. Guest workers should cost employers more than Americans, with the difference going to reparations for Americans thrown out of the workforce by them. Then there wouldn't be so much incentive to hire them.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
you and I, we do not dictate to government. Government dictates to us. The purpose of guest workers is to provide a less expensive source of labor that employers feel comfortable with. Employers do not feel comfortable with free people who can quit the employment and go work elsewhere. Many of our elected leaders are engaged in an effort to bring us a permanent stream of guest workers. Guest workers are like a poison to our country because they will poison the job market. Just as illegal immigrants do. They will also be very divisive to our country as we'll have a large group of foreign people in our country who do not have legal rights. People over time will recognize this as being wrong and will want to legalize the guest workers. While others will want to permanently bash them. The debate among republicans is whether we should send all the illegals home and replace them with guest workers or should we turn the existing illegals into guest workers and also get more guest workers. Nobody on the republican side even wants to use free labor instead of semi-slave labor.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
#2. To: TwentyTwelve (#1)
#3. To: Eric Stratton (#2)
At least people are starting to speak out about it in higher level places!
#4. To: TwentyTwelve (#3)
#5. To: TwentyTwelve (#3)
#6. To: TwentyTwelve (#3)
#7. To: Eric Stratton (#5)
And heck, if anything I view the neocons as an even bigger threat to liberty at this point in time as a result.
#8. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
Despite the above statistics, those who demand immigration enforcement and the rule of law are often labeled as racists and xenophobes.
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#9. To: X-15 (#8)
#10. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
the passage of SB 1070 by Arizona, and the federal government’s lawsuit to stop its implementation will be regarded the first battle of the 21st century American Revolution.
#11. To: Red Jones (#10)
#12. To: Eric Stratton, christine, Original_Intent, Jethro_Tull, TwentyTwelve (#4)
Yes. As usual though, little vision, only reaction, no proaction or ability to connect the dots before shit happens.
#13. To: HOUNDDAWG (#12)
#14. To: Red Jones (#10)
Consider a fellow named Luis whom I met in March. He's 17 years old. He came where when he was 3. He speaks perfect American english. He graduated from an American high school. In his mind he is American. He has a wife and a child. and he is illegal.
#15. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
As noted by one Arizona Sheriff, “our own government has become our enemy.”
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#16. To: Red Jones (#10)
We're supposed to tell little children that they didn't want their daddies anyway and simply take that man away from his family.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#17. To: abraxas (#14)
#18. To: Red Jones (#17)
(Edited)
Government's laws & policies should serve the people who are here. These illegal immigrants were allowed to come. They came. They sincerely contributed and became a part of our community. If government wants to serve the people, then it should serve these people. Government should not be used as a club to bash the people over the head. These people do not belong in Mexico, they belong here. They should be aggressively recruited to be citizens with full rights. In this way they will become loyal and good citizens. Republicans literally want to kick them out and replace them with guest workers. Guest workers are like slaves with no rights. It does not benefit us to have such people here. Let all the people who live here be free.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#19. To: Red Jones (#17)
But most of them have a steely determination to avoid police encounters and to simply deal with the police by being otherwise law-abiding and polite.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#20. To: Red Jones (#17)
I wonder why my fellow Americans have abandoned me - it seems.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#21. To: James Deffenbach (#16)
"babydaddy and babymama"
#22. To: James Deffenbach (#18)
Ideas like those are what is turning America into a $#it hole, Balkanized nation with 200-300 languages. Of course they belong in Mexico, they are effin TRESSPASSING! What part of that don't you get? If the government laws and policies should serve the people who are here and you include all the illegal aliens in that, what is your cutoff point? How many tens of millions of Chinese or Russians would be acceptable under your plan? How about people from Zimbabwe and Zaire or the Congo? Or is it only illegal alien Mexicans who get your sympathy?
#23. To: Red Jones (#21)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#24. To: James Deffenbach (#18)
(Edited)
Balkanized nation with 200-300 languages.
#25. To: Red Jones (#21)
the only way to deal with the situation is to let them stay and be citizens, at the same time make the employers stop hiring new ones and that can be done. We've never even tried to do these things. The alternative is guest workers. We don't want guest workers. That is like slavery in our country.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#26. To: christine (#22)
i couldn't agree with you more. what the hell, are we to take in everyone on the planet?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#27. To: Red Jones (#24)
if you favor the republican solutions, then you favor guest workers. that will balkanize us because those people will be alienated from us because they will not be equals in their legal status. we as a people will gain nothing from that.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#28. To: James Deffenbach (#18)
How many tens of millions of Chinese or Russians would be acceptable under your plan?
#29. To: James Deffenbach (#20)
It *might* be because of your sympathy for people who are willfully and knowingly trespassing in America. Try it in Mexico and see how their government deals with you.
#30. To: Red Jones (#17)
(Edited)
where I live the local public schools are 90% mexican. If you antagonize them, then you are dividing our country up and causing horrible grudges that will haunt us for many decades.
#31. To: Red Jones (#28)
republican radicals
#32. To: Red Jones (#28)
I don't think we really need any new immigration for a while, at least a decade.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#33. To: abraxas (#14)
Nobody forced Luis to have a child at 17.
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#34. To: Red Jones (#29)
I'm just in the middle of a situation where I am becoming a minority and the majority is being made hostile to me.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#35. To: abraxas (#30)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#36. To: James Deffenbach (#18)
Or is it only illegal alien Mexicans who get your sympathy?
#37. To: X-15 (#33)
Who the hell are YOU to impose YOUR outmoded, pious cultural standards on a poor-but-proud pioneer-immigrant from another country?? It's Our Duty to "lift up" those who can't benefit from the white privilege that is a stain on this nation.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#38. To: Esso (#37)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#39. To: Red Jones (#36)
also, I've run into mexicans who are racist towards me.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#40. To: Red Jones (#36)
the illegal immigration that Eisenhower dealt with was very small in scale to today.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#41. To: X-15 (#38)
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#42. To: James Deffenbach (#18)
If the illegal aliens actually want to be Americans--which I doubt very much--let them get in line behind people who have been trying to come in with visas and passports
#43. To: James Deffenbach (#19)
Your story should start "Once upon a time."
#44. To: christine (#22)
are we to take in everyone on the planet?
#45. To: James Deffenbach (#23)
You don't seriously suggest that with all the advances since the 50's that the illegals can't be found and taken so far into Mexico that they won't cross back into the country the same day, do you?
#46. To: James Deffenbach (#25)
(Edited)
Yeah, and all the illegals here taking American jobs
#47. To: Red Jones (#46)
But I think that existing illegals should be turned into citizens
#48. To: Red Jones (#46)
But I think that existing illegals should be turned into citizens.
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#49. To: James Deffenbach (#25)
Do you think you could go into Mexico without any paperwork, uninvited, and then work there, demand all kinds of benefits and protest against the government talking about how unfair they are to Americans?
#50. To: abraxas (#30)
(Edited)
These immigrants CAME AND MILKED THE SYSTEM
#51. To: abraxas (#30)
If Luis loves this nation so much and wants citizenship SO MUCH, he can join the military and go fight wars for empire.
#52. To: Red Jones (#50)
#53. To: Flintlock (#31)
Tancredo
#54. To: Red Jones (#50)
(Edited)
I am privileged to know illegal people who do extremely hard physical jobs in the hot sun and for very low wages.
#55. To: Flintlock (#31)
obama and his open borders are the radicals, not Tancredo
#56. To: X-15 (#48)
That knocks the legs out from under every argument for me to obey the laws of the land. If "they" get rewarded for breaking federal laws then what's to stop me from assassinating Congressmen for giving them amnesty??
#57. To: James Deffenbach (#32)
(Edited)
I don't think we really need any new immigration for a while, at least a decade.
#58. To: Red Jones (#57)
#59. To: Red Jones (#51)
They're not doing that any more. I've spoken to illegals who told me they tried to get in and could not get in because of their illegal status.
#60. To: James Deffenbach (#40)
the illegal immigration that Eisenhower dealt with was very small in scale to today.
#61. To: Red Jones (#60)
#62. To: James Deffenbach (#15)
#63. To: Red Jones (#60)
sounds like maybe your source could not really nail down how many.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#64. To: Red Jones (#60)
Someone above speculated that 20% of mexicans live in the US. It all depends on what year you use as the baseline to measure the mexican population.
#65. To: abraxas (#52)
You find me ONE, just ONE anchor baby that the birth was paid for by the PARENTS and not the taxpayers.
#66. To: abraxas, Red Jones (#64)
You don't need to go back to 1830 to calculate, just use CURRENT data and do a simple percentage calculation.
#67. To: Red Jones (#65)
Medical care is getting more and more difficult for us to pay for
#68. To: abraxas (#54)
none worked an iota harder than me.
#69. To: abraxas (#54)
This system isn't broken, it is NOT ENFORCED.
#70. To: Red Jones (#68)
it seems that you hired illegals.
#71. To: Jethro Tull (#56)
Either illegal is what the word means, or it doesn't.
#72. To: Red Jones (#42)
1. If you vote for these republicans, then you're voting for high levels of immigration.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#73. To: abraxas (#58)
Red, if amensty FAILED to fix the problem in 1986, what makes you think repeating the same mistake will have different results this time around?
#74. To: Jethro Tull (#61)
Should we boot those illegals who are currently incarcerated at taxpayer expense?
#75. To: Red Jones (#73)
You're more an enemy of mine than the illegals because you are a citizen without a brain that can easily be stampeded by propaganda into supporting something bad. I'm sick of my fellow Americans being so feeble and dysfunctional. 24 years went by, it was a major deal to our country, and you don't even know what happened, but you're going to spout at me.
#76. To: Red Jones (#42)
James, I had a neighbor named Jesus who was 31 when he moved away and I lost track of him & his family. His wife named Josie was American Indian. Is that american enough for you?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#77. To: James Deffenbach (#63)
better not plan on participating in any protests to tell the government
#78. To: Red Jones (#73)
You're more an enemy of mine than the illegals because...
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#79. To: Red Jones (#43)
I think it means I did a good job in presenting my case with words. thank-you.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#80. To: abraxas (#64)
The population in Mexico is 110 Million, so it only takes 22 million in this nation to reach that 20% mark.
#81. To: Red Jones (#45)
They already have tunnels, lots of them have been found. The only way to stop the illegals is to punish the employers for hiring them.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#82. To: Red Jones (#46)
But I think that existing illegals should be turned into citizens.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#83. To: abraxas (#67)
because we are subsidizing MILLIONS of ILLEGALS.
#84. To: X-15 (#48)
!!!!!!!!!!! That knocks the legs out from under every argument for me to obey the laws of the land. If "they" get rewarded for breaking federal laws then what's to stop me from assassinating Congressmen for giving them amnesty??
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#85. To: Red Jones (#65)
In Mexico they don't have that problem.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#86. To: Red Jones (#65)
Instead they all tell us that everything will be better if we put an expensive army on the border. It will not be better and we can't afford that expensive army.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#87. To: Red Jones (#83)
Many americans are uninsured and more every year because of our deteriorating economic situation. Many of the illegals pay taxes and therefore they are no more subsidized than the uninsured Americans who are also subsidized.
#88. To: James Deffenbach (#72)
The last alleged "Republican" I voted for (for president) was Richard Nixon
#89. To: Red Jones (#77)
I remember the big illegal immigrant protest that I think was in 2006. We had I think maybe over 200,000 protesters walking the streets peacefully.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#90. To: Red Jones (#88)
Where we disagree is that I don't go along with throwing the existing illegals out. That is a minor point (IMHO anyway) compared to whether we'll have many more illegal or legal immigrants.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#91. To: James Deffenbach (#76)
Your illegal alien? No. He is not an American at all. Just another criminal who jumped the line ahead of other people.
#92. To: Esso, Abraxas (#78)
you need to calm down & take another
#93. To: Red Jones (#91)
Like I told JT, people break the law every day. There's too many laws.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#94. To: James Deffenbach (#85)
And the Mexicans living in the US illegally don't have any problem at all with it no matter how much it costs because they are not paying for it!
#95. To: James Deffenbach (#86)
We have an expensive army already. What we can't afford is to have most of them overseas guarding the borders of Iraq and Bum***k Egypt
#96. To: James Deffenbach (#90)
A lot of those people that you think should be allowed to stay in America are every bit as racist as any Ku Klux Klan member
#97. To: James Deffenbach (#93)
If you think that is ok what makes the border jumpers you are defending better than the people who are trying to get in and doing it the way they're supposed to?
#98. To: Red Jones, all (#74)
then they should serve their time (in America).
#99. To: Red Jones (#97)
they become a part of the community and you don't want to harm the community
#100. To: abraxas (#99)
You have 30 million Americans out of work right now. We don't need the cheap labor and we can't afford to subsidize them.
#101. To: Red Jones (#97)
#102. To: Red Jones (#94)
ditto for lots of Americans who get government insurance.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#103. To: Red Jones (#97)
once here, it is hard to send them back.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#104. To: GreyLmist, Red Jones (#101)
You're emotional pitches on behalf of those who have been pulling our country down to such straits are really not going over well with me.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#105. To: Eric Stratton (#13)
You'll get no argument from me, although I will suggest that at some point there may be limited safe havens and greater demand for those that do exist than supply.
#106. To: GreyLmist (#101)
You're emotional pitches
#107. To: Red Jones (#106)
the illegals are human beings. Many have been here for a long time, some over 20 years doing jobs. many have children here. they should be respected.
#108. To: scrapper2 (#107)
deported
#109. To: Red Jones, 4 (#106)
Employers today are not penalized for hiring illegals. there is no serious talk among politicians to make laws causing employers to be penalized for hiring illegals.
#110. To: Red Jones (#108)
only a small minority of the illegals are being sent back.
#111. To: Jethro Tull (#109)
#112. To: scrapper2 (#110)
#113. To: Red Jones (#112)
you're psychotic.
#114. To: Jethro Tull (#109)
Administration opposes Arizona law that penalizes hiring of illegal immigrants
#115. To: scrapper2 (#113)
#116. To: Red Jones (#111)
I did not advocate giving taxpayer money to illegal immigrant felons.
#117. To: All (#115)
#118. To: Jethro Tull (#116)
My point is 1070 is the voice of the people.
#119. To: Red Jones (#115)
I can't help it if you're psychotic. you accuse me of things that are from your mind.
#120. To: Red Jones (#117)
(Edited)
this article at the top says that SB1070 in Arizona is somehow revolutionary. It is not
SB1070 is emotional terrorism and drama. It will hardly result in anybody deported who otherwise wouldn't have been deported. The vast majority of existing illegals will survive it.
Below is a copy of section 834b of the California Penal Code that deals with EXISTING immigration law enforcement at the local level.
The politicians who say they're against illegals are against illegals. They want the illegals to be slaves.
That is why they let the illegals come here in the first place.
the politicians are planning to turn these people into guest workers. Guest workers are the same as indentured servants. They're here to drive wages down and give the employers a comfortable position where they don't have to deal with labor. This new guest worker institution is going to be permanent. The condition that you despise is becoming permanent.
#121. To: Red Jones, scrapper2 (#115)
#122. To: Red Jones (#118)
I maintain that they should be identified, that those who have been here for any period of time should be given a choice to stay and become citizens or to leave.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#123. To: psusa, hondo68, Eric Stratton (#0)
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#124. To: scrapper2 (#110)
And you're happy that is the case and you voted for politicians who will ensure that unskilled free loading law breakers will stay in our nation taking free welfare, medical, educational benefits while our nation's econmy is nose diving under the weight of high unemployment rolls of US citizens and legal residents.
#125. To: buckeroo (#120)
Tom Tancredo
#126. To: scrapper2 (#119)
#127. To: All (#126)
#128. To: Red Jones (#71)
#129. To: Red Jones (#127)
#130. To: Red Jones (#125)
(Edited)
Tom tancredo sponsored legislation whereby the US government would set targets for average wages in different work categories.
SUMMARY 11/15/2007--Introduced. Optimizing Visa Entry Rules and Demanding Uniform Enforcement Immigration Reform Act of 2007 or the OVERDUE Immigration Reform Act of 2007 - Revises worldwide immigration level and visa allotment provisions, including establishment of specified new nonimmigrant classifications. Provides citizenship or nationality at birth for a person born in the United States only if such child was born to parents, one of whom is: (1) a U.S. citizen or national; or (2) a lawful permanent resident alien. Authorizes the use of the military to help secure the borders. Provides for increases of immigration and border enforcement personnel. Suspends the visa waiver program. Provides criminal penalties and forfeiture for unlawful presence in the United States. Provides for listing of immigration violators in the National Crime Information Center Database. Increases civil and criminal penalties for document fraud, benefit fraud, and false citizenship claims. Sets forth an identification standard for federal benefits. Requires electronic fingerprinting for U.S. passports. Authorizes visa term compliance bonds. Establishes minimum birth certificate standards for federal recognition purposes. Provides for the establishment of electronic birth and death registration systems. Renames the basic employment verification pilot program as the Employment Authorization Status Instant Check or EASI Check system and makes such system permanent and mandatory on a phased-in basis. Increases civil and criminal penalties for employer hiring violations. Provides for temporary social security cards for non-immigrant aliens authorized to work in the United States. Directs the Commissioner of Social Security to notify: (1) a U.S. employer with one or more employees whose social security account number does not match the employee's name or date of birth in Social Security Administration (SSA) records; and (2) an individual whose earnings from two or more employers are being reported under the individual's social security account number. Prohibits social security credit for work performed while unlawfully present in the United States. Makes an individual who submits a federal income tax return that relies on an individual taxpayer identification number in lieu of a social security number ineligible for any tax credit or refund (including the earned income tax credit). Revises provisions respecting: (1) adjustment of status; and (2) temporary protected status. Prohibits federal assistance to a post-secondary educational institution determined to be providing benefits in violation of the provision restricting in-state tuition to aliens unlawfully in the United States. Declares that states and state and local law enforcement personnel have the inherent authority to apprehend, arrest, detain, or transfer to federal custody aliens in the United States in the enforcement of U.S. immigration laws. Directs the Secretary of Homeland Security, upon state request, to provide for the transfer of an illegal alien to federal custody and the reimbursement of related state costs. Authorizes assistance to Cameron University, Lawton, Oklahoma, for a demonstration project to assess the feasibility of establishing a nationwide e-learning training course to be used by state, local, and tribal law enforcement officers to enhance such officers' ability to assist federal immigration officers. Directs the Secretary, within two years, to complete the exit component of the entry and exit data system, (US-VISIT). Prohibits employer deduction from gross income of wages paid to unauthorized aliens. Eliminates: (1) federal reimbursement of emergency health services provided to undocumented aliens after FY2007; and (2) coverage of Mexicans with border crossing cards. Provides funding for eligible providers through FY2013.
Most of us on this website, enjoy FACTUAL and verifiable support of posts when that same support is used in a continuous opinion. Tancredo attempted legislation that limits illegals from many social/welfare programs. And even imposed military force on the border with Mexico to enforce immigration laws. SO, you will have to produce some FACT, now.
#131. To: buckeroo (#130)
#132. To: Red Jones (#131)
but I believe it to be true
#133. To: buckeroo (#132)
#134. To: Ragin1 (#128)
#135. To: Artisan (#123)
#136. To: Red Jones (#135)
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#137. To: Red Jones (#106)
(Edited)
Me @ #101: Let me tell you about my community that's real cold in the winter. There are people who've lived with no heat from a utility company because they couldn't afford the bill. I personally know of 3 separate households and that's just the ones I know of. Because of illegals, it's hard to find work except through a temp agency. You're emotional pitches on behalf of those who have been pulling our country down to such straits are really not going over well with me.
You: the illegals are human beings. Many have been here for a long time, some over 20 years doing jobs. many have children here. they should be respected.
You: the illegals were invited here by the government that created a legal procedure for employers to hire them. Employers today are not penalized for hiring illegals. there is no serious talk among politicians to make laws causing employers to be penalized for hiring illegals. Instead many politicians want an endless stream of guest workers. Don't blame me for that situation.
#138. To: Red Jones (#137)
(Edited)
Red Jones: Ever since 1986 when the government passed a law that allows employers to hire illegals and not be penalized for it I've advocated changing the laws to stop employers from hiring new illegals. I don't see how you could read what I wrote above without picking up on that.
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the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement raid on the Agriprocessors kosher meatpacking plant
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The Bush administration wanted to make a statement to its conservative base regarding illegal immigrants being employed in the United States and it chose to make an example of Rubashkin and Agriprocessors.
#139. To: Red Jones (#138)
(Edited)
You quoting me: You're emotional pitches
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"Florida will not be a sanctuary state for illegal aliens," added McCollum, accompanied by Representative Will Snyder.
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"I think Arizona is going to want this law," McCollum said.
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According to his office, McCollum's proposed Florida legislation offers more teeth than the Arizona law by giving judges and law enforcement officers more tools in dealing with illegal immigrants, from bond rulings through to sentencing.
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In addition, the bill requires Florida businesses to check on immigration status of workers. [end excerpts]
#140. To: GreyLmist (#139)
In addition, the bill requires Florida businesses to check on immigration status of workers.
#141. To: Red Jones (#140)
#142. To: GreyLmist (#141)
#143. To: Red Jones (#142)
(Edited)
#144. To: GreyLmist (#143)
Guest workers should cost employers more than Americans, with the difference going to reparations for Americans thrown out of the workforce by them.
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