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Title: Arizona: A “Revolutionary” Line in the Sand?
Source: CanadaFreePress.com
URL Source: http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/26124
Published: Aug 4, 2010
Author: Doug Hagmann
Post Date: 2010-08-04 10:10:35 by Eric Stratton
Keywords: None
Views: 1442
Comments: 144

Arizona: A “Revolutionary” Line in the Sand?
By Doug Hagmann
August 3, 2010

I believe that history will show that the passage of SB 1070 by Arizona, and the federal government’s lawsuit to stop its implementation will be regarded the first battle of the 21st century American Revolution. Although not a single shot was fired- yet, the battle lines have clearly been drawn. Never before in the modern history of our country have all of the elements been in place for a war between our government and the citizenry of the United States. We stand at a proverbial and historic flashpoint as Obama plans to use the foot soldiers created by “comprehensive immigration reform,” whether achieved by law or mandate, to implement his socialist agenda for America.

Transforming the United States into a socialist nation

While the process of transforming the America known by our parents and grandparents to a socialist colony has been in progress for a half-century at the hands of Marxists, Socialists and Progressives, the Obama administration has put the Balkanization of America and the polarization of its citizens along racial, political and ideological lines on the fast track. And at least for now, he’s got the backing of Congress to advance his agenda of radical change. That was never so evident than on May 20th when the dictator of a corrupt, third world country was given a sickening, treasonous standing ovation in the halls of Congress for attacking the proposed legislation of an American sovereign state to uphold the laws of our country.

Regardless of whatever legislative support he might currently enjoy, evidence has shown that he is actively considering a back door strategy that would circumvent the need for congressional approval. More importantly, it would also circumvent the need for approval from the citizens of the U.S. Once in place, the amnesty of millions of illegal aliens in the U.S. would create a formidable electoral force to keep the Progressives in power under the pretext of free elections. The talk of altruistic motives of immigration and the joys and benefits of multiculturalism is nothing more than a smokescreen for power and control on the path to transforming the United States into a socialist nation.

Hart-Celler Act, Chain Migration

To understand how we got to this point in our national history, the groundwork for the transformation of our country was laid in 1965 with the passage of the Hart-Celler Act, which was signed into law by then President Lyndon Johnson. As Mark Levin details in his best-selling book Liberty and Tyranny, that single piece of legislation, as part of the Great Society, laid “the foundation for radically altering the character of American society and the relationship of the governed to their government.” During the debate of the bill on the floor of the Senate, Levin noted that Senator Kennedy insisted that the ethnic mix of the U.S. would not be changed, nor would America be inundated with immigrants from any one country or area.” In his assessment of the debate, Mark Levin wrote “it is hard to believe that they were not intentionally deceiving the public.” Indeed.

That bill caused a significant change in immigration that essentially created the current situation in the U.S. It introduced “chain migration,” which radically altered the “historical basis for making immigration decisions.” As written by Mr. Levin, “The emphasis would no longer be on the preservation of American society and the consent of the governed; now aliens themselves would decide who comes to the United States through family reunification (emphasis mine). The act also eliminated national quotas for immigration, opening the floodgates for immigrants from Mexico, Central and South America.

Consider that as a result of the 1965 immigration reform and deliberate lack of immigration enforcement, nearly 1 in 3 immigrants living in the U.S. today is here illegally. Additionally, legal immigration increased from 2.5 million in the 1950’s to over 10 million in the 1990’s. In 2007, the immigrant population in the U.S. reached a record 37.9 million and today accounts for 1 in 8 of all U.S. residents. In contrast, immigrants accounted for 1 in 21 of all U.S. residents in 1970.

9 percent of the population of Mexico resides in the United States

According to a 2004 report by the Pew Hispanic Center and detailed in Liberty and Tyranny, roughly 9 percent of the population of Mexico resides in the United States. Fifty seven percent of all illegal immigrants are Mexican, and another 24 percent are from other Latin American countries. In less than 40 years, it is estimated that Hispanic school-aged children will comprise the majority of public school students in the U.S.

While many proponents of immigration argue that the immigrants are here to assimilate and contribute to the United States, a 2008 study by the Manhattan Institute determined that the current level of assimilation is at a record low. Perhaps this is most evident by the fact that more than 55 million individuals living in the U.S. speak a language other than English, including over 34 million who speak Spanish. It is evident that assimilation is not a priority. The establishment of ethnic conclaves within the U.S. is an example of the lack of desire to assimilate into the fabric of American society.

In addition to the social and cultural effects of immigration as a whole, illegal immigrants are being aided by our own government in transferring money out of the United States. In 2006, illegal aliens sent an estimated $45 billion from the U.S. to their countries of origin. Last year, thanks to the assistance of the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury, Mexicans alone living and working in the U.S. transferred between $21.9 and $25 billion to the Mexican economy. Under the program called Directo a Mexico, U.S. commercial banks enable illegal aliens to transfer money through the Federal Reserve’s own automated clearinghouse, which is linked to the Mexican central bank Banco de Mexico. The illegal alien is also given an ATM card that can be used in Mexican banks in the event of their deportation.

The outflow of U.S. dollars to Mexico

The outflow of U.S. dollars to Mexico is second only to Mexico’s oil industry in the amount of revenue produced. It should be no wonder, then, that the Mexican government has no interest in working with U.S. authorities to secure our border or to enforce our immigration laws. In fact, it is the ultimate goal of the global elite to erase our borders and implement a “North American Union” as a step to achieving global governance.

Illegal immigration is a big business, and not just for Mexico. It is estimated that $18-25 billion is spent by state governments on welfare programs to illegal aliens each year, and about $2.2 billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs for illegal aliens. And additional $2.5 billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. The drain on the American economy by individuals living illegally in the United States is a significant threat that will lead to our demise.

There should be no doubt that illegal aliens also pose a security risk to our country. First and foremost, they are living and working in this country illegally—contrary to the laws of the United States. And contrary to the Progressive party line, the proponents of multiculturalism, and civil rights and advocacy organizations that subjugate the rights of Americans to their own agendas, crimes committed by illegal aliens are statistically higher than legal immigrants or U.S. citizens. In 2005, the Government Accountability Office released a study it conducted of 55,322 incarcerated illegal aliens. The study population averaged 8 arrests each. Ninety seven percent were arrested more than once, and 26% had over 11 arrests each. Each illegal alien averaged 13 separate offenses and 24% of those offenses were for drug crimes. About 12% were for murder, robbery, assault and sexually related crimes, and 21% of offenses were immigration offenses. Other offenses included property related offenses, traffic violations, fraud and obstruction of justice.

Illegal aliens arrested for less serious crimes and released pending a hearing at a future date often fail to appear. According to US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, there were 557,762 fugitive alien cases were listed as “unsolved” at the end of 2008. Furthermore, illegal immigrants with extensive criminal records and multiple deportations are often permitted to remain in the U.S. by activist judges who are sympathetic to their plight.

The rampant problem of illegal immigration can easily be solved not by creating new legislation or enacting a complex system of immigration reform. As we observed in the weeks leading up to the implementation of SB 1070 in Arizona as law, the mere threat of realistic enforcement was sufficient to cause an exodus of illegal aliens from that state. As illustrated by the incoherent ruling of a political hack legislating from the bench, Arizona’s attempt to secure their state was undermined in a crafty and carefully executed political ploy. It is no coincidence that the appeal process will extend beyond the November midterm elections. It is the political hubris of a socialist dictator imposing his agenda against the will of the majority of this country’s citizenry.

National Council of La Raza, John McCain, Hillary Clinton

The failure to effectively address the issue of illegal immigration is not limited to any one political party; many Republicans as well as a vast majority of Democrats are complicit in failing to secure America’s safety and sovereignty. Consider that the National Council of La Raza, the largest Hispanic advocacy group in the United States, honored Senator John McCain in 1999. During her presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton appointed a senior member of La Raza to her staff, and Obama appointed a La Raza leader as the director of the Office of Internal Affairs. Undoubtedly, this virulent pro-amnesty group enjoys a significant influence over public policy in American government. Funding of this group finds numerous foundations and individuals who espouse and promote a global ideology and “one world governance” over national sovereignty as key contributors.

Despite the above statistics, those who demand immigration enforcement and the rule of law are often labeled as racists and xenophobes. American cities and states like Arizona are reeling from the adverse financial and social effects of illegal immigration and unfettered legal immigration. They lack help from the federal government, which is more intent on creating an electoral majority to ensure the continuation of their power to facilitate the socialist makeover and takeover of the United States. Obama and his justice department are siding with criminals against the citizens of America. Arizona is attempting to restore order to a system of chaos created by the federal government. Instead of welcoming the help and choosing to uphold the U.S. Constitution, the Obama administration is imposing a socialist dictatorship and has drawn a line in the Arizona sand. The question is now whether that line becomes “Ground Zero” for this century’s American Revolution—a fight against the Balkanization of our country, and the eradication of our borders, our sovereignty and ultimately, our nation.

As noted by one Arizona Sheriff, “our own government has become our enemy.” The question is how, if and when law-abiding, patriotic American citizens will choose to engage that enemy. For the sake of our country, acceptance and acquiescence is not an option.

Copyright © Douglas Hagmann Douglas Hagmann, founder & director of the Northeast Intelligence Network, and a multi-state licensed private investigative agency. Doug began using his investigative skills and training to fight terrorism and increase public awareness through his website.

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#74. To: Jethro Tull (#61)

Should we boot those illegals who are currently incarcerated at taxpayer expense?

I said at the very top that SB1070 is not a revolution. It is feeble stupid dysfunctional law that accomplishes nothing but emotional terrorism. and everybody accused me of loving the illegals. No, I would like a law in arizona that penalizes employers for hiring new people who are illegal. Based on the responses I've received, I am the only one here that actually wants to stop the new illegals from coming in. The people behind SB1070 (republicans) are not intending on stopping new people from coming. and you all are defending that law.

should we deport people in prison for crimes like stealing or violence? I think we jail too many people, but if they're incarcerated for a crime like that, then they should serve their time.

Anybody who thinks that SB1070 represents the beginning of a revolution is an idiot. and the author of this article above said that SB1070 was the beginning of a revolution. That law is done by the people who rule us and their agenda is to break down our sovereignty and bring many many new people here, but from their point of view they hope not free people. They like slaves. That is what guest workers are.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-04   19:40:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Red Jones (#73)

You're more an enemy of mine than the illegals because you are a citizen without a brain that can easily be stampeded by propaganda into supporting something bad. I'm sick of my fellow Americans being so feeble and dysfunctional. 24 years went by, it was a major deal to our country, and you don't even know what happened, but you're going to spout at me.

Need I remind you that it was sold to the people as a means to end ILLEGAL immigration?

I think you have laid on the self righteous arrogance thick enough, Red. You blather on about your stupid ASSumptions that have NO RELEVANCE whatsoever. But, when that doesn't work you move in for personal insults.

So, I'm your enemy now. Newsflash: belly button lint is of more importance than your personal enemy list. I'm sick of subsidizing illegals. I'm sick of paying for anchor babies. I'm sick of people having their identity stolen. I'm sick of seeing Mexican flags waving in my country. I'm sick of La Raza. I'm sick of this diatribe about how these poor illegals "can't" get citizenship and "can't" be expected to pay their own way. Gee, with the $20 Billion a YEAR they SEND TO MEXICO, I think they could PAY UP if it was of any importance to them. Obviously, IT IS NOT.

I am an AmeriCAN and I don't want amnesty for a bunch of AmeriCAN'TS. Talk about feeble and dysfunctional. Sheesh, these people are here for 20 years and STILL CAN'T SPEAK THE LANGUAGE. On the other hand, ALL of my legal immigrant friends and acquaintances are FLUENT. And they are now AmeriCANS, as it should be.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-08-04   19:40:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Red Jones (#42)

James, I had a neighbor named Jesus who was 31 when he moved away and I lost track of him & his family. His wife named Josie was American Indian. Is that american enough for you?

The American Indian? Sure, she is American enough. Your illegal alien? No. He is not an American at all. Just another criminal who jumped the line ahead of other people.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-04   19:47:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: James Deffenbach (#63)

better not plan on participating in any protests to tell the government

you make a good point that Americans are not treated as well in Mexico as Mexicans are treated here. That is very reasonable.

But the point I'd like to make on that is that when we Americans protest here in America we are simply not allowed. You are likely aware of the history on protests here in America the last 10 years. There's been 4 or 5 times when Americans did large public protests and were met with police state tactics to stop them from doing so. Americans when they protest are arrested in large numbers. They're beaten. Strong efforts are made to throw them in jail with no legitimate justification for doing so.

I remember the big illegal immigrant protest that I think was in 2006. We had I think maybe over 200,000 protesters walking the streets peacefully. and there were very very few police officers. The only police they had were just a very few and they were not dressed in riot gear. They did not assault the mexicans protesting. They did not arrest them. Americans would not have been allowed to protest like that. Our own government has a double standard on that. But it is their agenda to bring lots of immigrants in, to drive wages down, to divide us up and rule over us.

Down in Mexico the Mexican government is against the Mexicans too and has done many things to harm them. When the mexicans came out in large numbers to protest crooked elections a few years ago the mexican police came out and eventually killed some mexican citizens to stop those protests.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-04   19:49:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Red Jones (#73)

You're more an enemy of mine than the illegals because...

Sheesh, you need to calm down & take another WetBaxium pill, Hothead Red.

Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso  posted on  2010-08-04   19:50:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Red Jones (#43)

I think it means I did a good job in presenting my case with words. thank-you.

Actually you don't owe me any thanks for that because I didn't mean it the way you took it. And neither you nor anyone else will ever convince me that we need to welcome 20 million people (or 30 million or ever what the actual number is) whose first act coming into the country was a criminal act. I don't get to go into other people's country and work without papers and lots of bureaucracy. Why should they?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-04   19:50:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: abraxas (#64)

The population in Mexico is 110 Million, so it only takes 22 million in this nation to reach that 20% mark.

I don't disagree with you on that, you can see by my statement above. I was trying to say it may well be higher than 20% especially if you go back in time. Mexico has been migrating north for a long time. I read that of all mexicans in 1848 about 5% lived north of the current border. They would've become US citizens. and ever since then there's been a stream of them coming north. But since the 1980's that stream became a big river.

How many illegals are here? maybe 30 million, most estimates are low I believe. and this is after the illegals who came in the 1970's & early 1980's were made legal. and I think maybe only 2/3's are Mexican. However you look at it, a very large portion of the Mexican population has chosen to live in the United States.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-04   19:56:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Red Jones (#45)

They already have tunnels, lots of them have been found. The only way to stop the illegals is to punish the employers for hiring them.

Their tunnels, when they are found, should be closed with dynamite. And shooting a few of them when they crossed the border would probably cause the others to hear mamacita hollering for them back at the casa and then turn around and go see what up with mama.

I have no problem with punishing people for hiring illegals assuming they know they're illegal. But unless they go after the ones who hire most of them, outfits like Tyson's, nothing will be done about it. A few prosecutions of some of the biggest criminals might get some results. But sure, punish the employers and deport the illegals. Make it fair.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-04   19:56:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Red Jones (#46)

But I think that existing illegals should be turned into citizens.

And that's where I disagree with you. America can't afford to take in every mofo who wants to move from their country. As I said before, does your sympathy extend only to Mexicans? How many million North Koreans should we take in? What about Russians, Chinese, Congolese, Argentinians? How about Cubans? There is a tribe of oppressed people, do you want to take all of them in too? How many hundreds of millions more people do Americans need to take in and support? Cause that's what happens with a lot of them, including the illegal alien Mexicans.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-04   20:01:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: abraxas (#67)

because we are subsidizing MILLIONS of ILLEGALS.

each individual medical procedure here costs double or more what the same procedure costs just about anywhere else. that is the problem you should focus on regarding unaffordable medical costs. Many americans are uninsured and more every year because of our deteriorating economic situation. Many of the illegals pay taxes and therefore they are no more subsidized than the uninsured Americans who are also subsidized.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-04   20:01:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: X-15 (#48)

!!!!!!!!!!! That knocks the legs out from under every argument for me to obey the laws of the land. If "they" get rewarded for breaking federal laws then what's to stop me from assassinating Congressmen for giving them amnesty??

Good point.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-04   20:02:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Red Jones (#65)

In Mexico they don't have that problem.

And the Mexicans living in the US illegally don't have any problem at all with it no matter how much it costs because they are not paying for it!

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-04   20:10:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Red Jones (#65)

Instead they all tell us that everything will be better if we put an expensive army on the border. It will not be better and we can't afford that expensive army.

We have an expensive army already. What we can't afford is to have most of them overseas guarding the borders of Iraq and Bum***k Egypt and leaving our own border wide open. We could bring our troops home from all the countries they are deployed, and all at our expense, and put them where they could do some good. A big tall fence with an observation tower about every 300 yards or so with well-armed guards would solve a lot of the illegal immigration problem. Or, we could get the Mexicans to build a humongous rock wall and make sure that the last illegal was on the other side of it when they laid the last row of rocks.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-04   20:15:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Red Jones (#83)

Many americans are uninsured and more every year because of our deteriorating economic situation. Many of the illegals pay taxes and therefore they are no more subsidized than the uninsured Americans who are also subsidized.

What part of SUBSIDIZING ALL THE NO PAYS MAKES IT MORE EXPENSIVE aren't you getting?

I'm one of those Americans. I AM NOT SUBSIDIZED. Don't preach to me about it. Stop subsidizing ILLEGALS is one measure that will bring down costs.

Illegals put down bogus numbers of dependants and end up paying zilch. Why not? It ISN'T THEIR SSN that they are filing on, IF they bother to file. Then they head down to the free lunch line because they aren't making enough to feed the family. They do not spend their earnings in this nation to improve our economy, they send the money to Mexico by the BILLIONS.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-08-04   20:15:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: James Deffenbach (#72)

The last alleged "Republican" I voted for (for president) was Richard Nixon

that is an impressive voting record. You're at least a few years older than me - because I was first eligible to vote in 1976. That was a very honorable reason to vote for Nixon in 1968 and also to vote against him in 1972. I know that what you said is true, that Johnson got us in that war and Nixon did tell us he would pull us out. I think he said 'peace with dignity'. but his entire first term he failed to do that. I liked his policy of 'vietnamization', letting the vietnamese do the fighting. but still, the war was bad. I too turned against the republicans, but it took me longer to wise up than you.

On the 2'nd point - I accused you of being for larger levels of immigration. I made that knee-jerk accusation because I'm opposed to higher levels of immigration, I live in Arizona where republicans are very strong and they are in fact for higher levels of immigration, especially guest workers. I assumed you were under their influence. not very smart of me.

I think the great disagreements among us are partly caused by the disinformation we've received on this issue. People are not aware that we don't penalize employers for hiring illegals, that employers can do it any time they want. and I'm desperately trying to point that out because I feel that is the reasonable solution.

Where we disagree is that I don't go along with throwing the existing illegals out. That is a minor point (IMHO anyway) compared to whether we'll have many more illegal or legal immigrants.

For 10 years almost every single month the percentage of American adults actually working has declined. Given this fact we should stop nearly all new immigration. That seems obvious to me. Yet the people who make our laws do not see that. and it is true that many Obama supporters do consider me a racist for thinking we should put any controls at all on immigration.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-04   20:19:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Red Jones (#77)

I remember the big illegal immigrant protest that I think was in 2006. We had I think maybe over 200,000 protesters walking the streets peacefully.

That would have been a fine time to have rounded up a bunch of those La Raza (racist) ba$tards and sent them back to the land they love so much.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-04   20:24:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Red Jones (#88)

Where we disagree is that I don't go along with throwing the existing illegals out. That is a minor point (IMHO anyway) compared to whether we'll have many more illegal or legal immigrants.

For 10 years almost every single month the percentage of American adults actually working has declined. Given this fact we should stop nearly all new immigration. That seems obvious to me. Yet the people who make our laws do not see that. and it is true that many Obama supporters do consider me a racist for thinking we should put any controls at all on immigration.

A lot of those people that you think should be allowed to stay in America are every bit as racist as any Ku Klux Klan member that ever lived. One of their biggest groups, La Raza, is racist to its core. I am not saying that all Mexicans are bad people because I believe there are both good and bad people in every group. But I also know that America CANNOT take in everyone who might want to move to America and we do have some immigration laws, just like all other countries. If you don't have a border that you will protect you don't have a country. I believe the illegals should be deported and immigration should be on a case by case basis. We don't exactly NEED 20 or 30 million illegal aliens in America, not when so many Americans are out of work.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-04   20:33:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: James Deffenbach (#76)

Your illegal alien? No. He is not an American at all. Just another criminal who jumped the line ahead of other people.

he was 5 years old walking across the desert with his mom & dad. and you say he should've ran away from them and stayed in Mexico because of a law made in washington. 5-year olds moving to a new place el norte are not criminals. and when he came of school age he went to school. and as time went on he learned to speak english as his primary language because that is what his friends spoke. by the time he graduated from high school english was his main language. he spoke so little spanish he practically forgot how to speak it. when was he supposed to go home to mexico during this whole process to avoid being a criminal?

I guess I just don't blame the illegal immigrants for their crimes enough to think of them as being 'criminal' in a conventional sense. Technically he's a criminal. but no jury will convict a 5-year old for staying with his mom and dad. I tell you in all honesty that none of the illegal immigrants would be considered criminals to be jailed if a jury voted on their fate. a jury might vote to deport them, but not to jail them.

Like I told JT, people break the law every day. There's too many laws.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-04   20:33:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Esso, Abraxas (#78)

you need to calm down & take another

I did get a bit carried away in telling abraxas that she was an enemy. But I had a serious point that was a good point, just got carried away expressing myself too strongly.

The people who rule our country are my enemy. Abraxas is not my enemy. I get frustrated that so many of my fellow Americans I think enable this ruling regime that really is my enemy. There is great disinformation. Our people are deceived. I should not blame them for this. We are all imperfect as is evidenced that I got carried away. I also wanted to make the point that the illeal immigrants are generally not my enemies.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-04   20:39:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Red Jones (#91)

Like I told JT, people break the law every day. There's too many laws.

Sure there are too many laws. I doubt you would get any argument about that from any sane person. But I think most Americans will argue with you that we don't need a bunch of people who think it is ok for them to just waltz across the border without going through the proper channels. If you think that is ok what makes the border jumpers you are defending better than the people who are trying to get in and doing it the way they're supposed to? I had to get a visa and passport when I traveled outside the US, so are the illegals you are taking up for better than me? And if so why?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-04   20:46:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: James Deffenbach (#85)

And the Mexicans living in the US illegally don't have any problem at all with it no matter how much it costs because they are not paying for it!

ditto for lots of Americans who get government insurance.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-04   21:15:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: James Deffenbach (#86)

We have an expensive army already. What we can't afford is to have most of them overseas guarding the borders of Iraq and Bum***k Egypt

I can't argue with you there. the military spending is also insane.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-04   21:17:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: James Deffenbach (#90)

A lot of those people that you think should be allowed to stay in America are every bit as racist as any Ku Klux Klan member

I agree with you.

and I just thought of another aspect of this situation that I'd like to talk to you about. The financial powers in this country are very powerful and their influence means a lot to the people who rule us. or maybe they (the financial powers) are the people that rule us. The financial people have a big problem with housing prices. Because they have a lot of money lent out on homes. They must keep the price of those homes up to support all the loans they made. They feel that we must have a constant stream of new people coming here to support home prices. I don't agree with them. but I think that because of this situation they will feel it is a very high priority to keep lots of immigrants flowing in.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-04   21:25:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: James Deffenbach (#93)

If you think that is ok what makes the border jumpers you are defending better than the people who are trying to get in and doing it the way they're supposed to?

I don't think they're better. But they're here. they cut in line. but they got here. once here, it is hard to send them back. in part because they become a part of the community and you don't want to harm the community. In part because you have to catch them to send them back and after so much time goes by they become more a part of the community. They benefited by cutting in line. it doesn't make them better, but they still got that benefit of being here.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-04   21:32:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Red Jones, all (#74)

then they should serve their time (in America).

So the already stressed taxpayers and states, some of whom are cutting back essential services to taxpayers, should pick up the tab to feed, house & provide medical care to criminal illegal aliens? We're broke. We have no more to give. The well is dry. No mas.

OBAMA'S CHERNOBYL

Spew, Baby, Spew

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-08-04   23:03:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: Red Jones (#97)

they become a part of the community and you don't want to harm the community

If some lawbreaker moves into my community and skirts the law, then they should be ready to pay the price with it comes due. Do you feel the same for the murderer, rapist and theif who happen to get away with it then move into a community that doesn't know what they did? Oh, let them go because it's been so much time. What a lame argument!!

Sheesh, subsidizing illegals HURTS the community. Again, why do you think CA, AZ and NY are so deep in the red? Somebody had to pay the bills. If it comes down to paying for US citizens or paying for illegals, I think it's a no brainer which should get priority.

So what if they are here? They will go back if the subsidizing stops. You have 30 million Americans out of work right now. We don't need the cheap labor and we can't afford to subsidize them.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-08-04   23:13:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: abraxas (#99)

You have 30 million Americans out of work right now. We don't need the cheap labor and we can't afford to subsidize them.

What a coincidence. There's about 30 million illegals here taking jobs away from Americans and about 30 million Americans out of work. We definitely don't need their labor and definitely can't afford to subsidize them, especially since so many of our businesses moved to Mexico. I think we should start billing Mexico for all the costs from their illegals.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2010-08-05   2:40:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Red Jones (#97)

Let me tell you about my community that's real cold in the winter. There are people who've lived with no heat from a utility company because they couldn't afford the bill. I personally know of 3 separate households and that's just the ones I know of. Because of illegals, it's hard to find work except through a temp agency. You're emotional pitches on behalf of those who have been pulling our country down to such straits are really not going over well with me.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2010-08-05   2:57:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: Red Jones (#94)

ditto for lots of Americans who get government insurance.

While I don't agree with the government being in the insurance business (because the Constitution doesn't confer that power to them), there is one difference. AMERICANS who get government insurance are citizens, not illegal aliens. Or is that irrelevant too?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-05   10:47:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: Red Jones (#97)

once here, it is hard to send them back.

It wouldn't be for me. If I were the president for just six months you would not see many illegal aliens in America. They would be back in Mexico or wherever they came from and not just barely across the border either where they could trot right back as soon as your back was turned. And they would be given a strict warning not to ever come back without going through the proper channels like Americans have to do who might want to live there. And told, in no uncertain terms, that there would be penalties for coming back in illegally and they would be enforced.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-05   10:51:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: GreyLmist, Red Jones (#101)

You're emotional pitches on behalf of those who have been pulling our country down to such straits are really not going over well with me.

Nor with me.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-05   10:53:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: Eric Stratton (#13)

You'll get no argument from me, although I will suggest that at some point there may be limited safe havens and greater demand for those that do exist than supply.

Right, at which point they will be divided into two groups; the ultra rich and the ordinary rich, aka the poor.

Bill Gates and David Rockefeller will be accommodated and the schmucky owner of White Way Linen Service of Cleveland (who clears a paltry 2 mil a yr) won't.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2010-08-05   14:45:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: GreyLmist (#101)

You're emotional pitches

it should be 'your emotional pitches'.

the illegals are human beings. Many have been here for a long time, some over 20 years doing jobs. many have children here. they should be respected.

the illegals were invited here by the government that created a legal procedure for employers to hire them. Employers today are not penalized for hiring illegals. there is no serious talk among politicians to make laws causing employers to be penalized for hiring illegals. Instead many politicians want an endless stream of guest workers. Don't blame me for that situation.

Ever since 1986 when the government passed a law that allows employers to hire illegals and not be penalized for it I've advocated changing the laws to stop employers from hiring new illegals. I don't see how you could read what I wrote above without picking up on that.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-07   12:30:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: Red Jones (#106)

the illegals are human beings. Many have been here for a long time, some over 20 years doing jobs. many have children here. they should be respected.

...and deported in a polite respectful but highly efficient manner....

scrapper2  posted on  2010-08-07   12:32:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: scrapper2 (#107)

deported

that is just a fantasy that you have. Many politicians say they are going to turn the illegals into guest workers and they're going to create a pipeline of new guest workers for employers. People who talk like you frequently vote for such politicians.

only a small minority of the illegals are being sent back.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-07   12:38:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Red Jones, 4 (#106)

Employers today are not penalized for hiring illegals. there is no serious talk among politicians to make laws causing employers to be penalized for hiring illegals.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2010/05/28/AR2010052804319.html

1070 was "serious talk" regarding the hiring of Illegals. Obama & company stood in opposition. Red, states like yours can't afford the social cost of illegals not to mention the cost of the crime they commit. If you can't get yourself to recognize that predicate illegal felons shouldn't be supported by American taxpayers, I'm on Mars and you Venus on this issue

Administration opposes Arizona law that penalizes hiring of illegal immigrants

By Robert Barnes Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, May 29, 2010

The Obama administration on Friday urged the Supreme Court to review and set aside an Arizona law that sanctions employers who hire illegal immigrants, saying it would disrupt the "careful balance" that Congress struck in federal immigration law.

-Snip

OBAMA'S CHERNOBYL

Spew, Baby, Spew

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-08-07   12:45:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: Red Jones (#108)

only a small minority of the illegals are being sent back.

And you're happy that is the case and you voted for politicians who will ensure that unskilled free loading law breakers will stay in our nation taking free welfare, medical, educational benefits while our nation's econmy is nose diving under the weight of high unemployment rolls of US citizens and legal residents.

Nice.

scrapper2  posted on  2010-08-07   12:47:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: Jethro Tull (#109)

JT, I did not advocate giving taxpayer money to illegal immigrant felons.

The reality in my state is that we have lots of illegals that have driven down wages and destroyed opportunity, we have politicians who paved the way for that to happen, John McCain voted to let the illegals in in 1986, McCain is still a prominent politician, we have new politicians who want an unlimited stream of guest workers. We don't have any politicial leaders who want employers to have to use citizen labor from within our country. and you all are blaming me for this. But I'm not a politician.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-07   13:09:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: scrapper2 (#110)

you're psychotic.

it is a simple fact that few illegals are being sent back. I wasn't cheering over that fact. Someone else said that SB1070 would send people back and that I was unhappy over this. I was telling them that very very few are going to be sent back over SB1070 and very few are being sent back.

Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-08-07   13:12:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: Red Jones (#112)

you're psychotic.

My my, red, what bad manners you picked up while sojourning at the nest...

scrapper2  posted on  2010-08-07   13:16:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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