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Title: Report: 1 in 15 kids in U.S. has illegal immigrant parent
Source:
East Valley Tribune
URL Source: http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/ar ... 84-11df-9c10-001cc4c002e0.html
Published: Aug 11, 2010
Author: Howard Fischer, Capitol Media Services
Post Date: 2010-08-11 21:07:27 by Red Jones
Keywords: None
Views: 1846
Comments: 119
Report: 1 in 15 kids in U.S. has illegal immigrant parent Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:52 pm | Updated: 5:47 pm, Wed Aug 11, 2010. Howard Fischer, Capitol Media Services | 2 comments About one out of every 15 children in the United States was born to a family where at least one parent is in this country illegally, according to a new report Wednesday. And four out of five of those 5.1 million children -- including 340,000 born in just 2008 -- are citizens because they were born in the United States, the Pew Hispanic Center concluded. That, according to some, makes them ``anchor babies'' for their illegal parents. The figures, which the organization calculated based on 2009 U.S. Census Bureau estimates, are the best estimates to date of the scope of the issue which has resulted in calls to amend the U.S. Constitution to deny automatic citizenship to children solely by virtue of their birth within this country. That percentage of children of illegal immigrant may be increasing. The overall figure is about 6.8 percent of all children 17 and younger who have at least one illegal immigrant parent. But Pew Hispanic figures that 7.9 percent of all births during 2008 -- that 340,000 figure -- were offspring of "unauthorized'' immigrants. Researchers peg the number of illegal immigrants in the United States at something slightly in excess of 4 percent of the total population. "But because they are relatively young and have high birth rates, their children make up a much larger share of the newborn population and the child population in this country,'' the report states. The report does not say how many of those 5.1 million children of illegal immigrants are in Arizona. But Jeff Passel, the senior demographer at Pew Hispanic Center, pointed to an earlier study which concluded that Arizona has about 4.2 percent of the total illegal immigrants in the entire country. Using that as a rough estimate, that translates to more than 214,000 children from birth through age 17 in the state where at least one parent is not here legally. And, based on the Pew figures nationwide, about 170,000 of these would be considered "anchor babies'' born in this country. That also tracks with estimates in previous Pew reports which show that up to 110,000 children in Arizona public schools were born in this country into families where one or both parents are undocumented, with possibly 65,000 more school children who are themselves illegal immigrants. The numbers will figure in the debate over the future of the 14th Amendment. It states that children born or naturalized in the United States are citizens of both this country and the state where they reside. Courts have interpreted that to entitle citizenship to those born in the United States regardless of whether one or both parents had no legal right to be here. Some foes, including Sen. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, argue those rulings are flawed. He noted that the amendment makes its provisions conditional on the children being "subject to the jurisdiction'' of this country. Pearce said courts, citing that language, concluded for years that did not entitle Native Americans to citizenship. "There's no doubt where they were born,'' he said. It was only after Congress specifically altered the law regarding citizenship for Indians that the situation changed. Pearce is weighing whether to have Arizona bring a new challenge to those court rulings. That would take the form of a state law denying birth certificates to children born in Arizona unless they could show at least one parent is in this country legally. That likely would provoke a lawsuit. But Pearce said a simpler course would be to have the issue handled at the federal level. U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., is pushing to amend the Constitution to spell out that mere birth within U.S. borders does not entitle someone to citizenship. That process, though, is cumbersome, requiring either a constitutional convention or ratification of any change approved by two-thirds of the U.S. House and Senate by three-fourths of all state legislatures. Pearce, however, said that's not necessary. "Congress could fix it tomorrow,'' he said. "All it needs is clarification.'' He pointed out that the 14th Amendment, which also deals with issues of voting rights and who can hold office, also spells out that Congress "shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.'' "So they put it in there in case there was some abuse, or something misunderstood,'' Pearce said. Applicable language of 14th Amendment All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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#65. To: Red Jones (#50)
It is no fun having to show you that you buy into folklore and stereotypes and don't bother to actually look at reality. The fact is that Cesar Chavez wanted immigration restrictions. He sent people down to the border. That was lost in the folklore and you, my friend, are too lazy to check your facts. When someone calls you out for not having all the facts, you launch into a tizzy of namecalling and make yourself look like a fool. The fact is that not all people of Mexican heritage want an amnesty, but you think they are all on the same page. Do you also think there is no such thing as a Black Conservative as well? Do you think they are all followers of Jesse Jackson? Grow up, Red. There is a bigger world out there than what you think it is and people are not all the same. You are wrong. You keep proving yourself wrong. To cover for it, you launch into a batch of namecalling. You have no argument. You have no facts. All you have is blather and insults. Grow up, child.
Somewhere, Jimmy Carter is laughing and saying, "Finally! I won't be the worst President ever!"
I'm not trying to offend you. I saw what you wrote. I responded to you that the government does not listen to the whites or the ethnic mexicans. I call them ethnic mexicans because they are usually american in their national identity. they are mexican in their ethnic identification. then there are some who are actual mexicans from mexico. You assumed that the government listens to somebody among the people because you've been indoctrinated to believe in democracy, just as we all have been. but democracy is dysfunctional. the government doesn't care at all for the sensibilities, interests or desires of the people. and it doesn't matter what color you are. when the mexicans were down in mexico they were getting treated like garbage by their own government. then they come up here and complain about our government treating them like garbage. the mexican government let US grain into mexico with no tariffs. Problem - US grain being subsidized very heavily where farmers get as much government money as money from selling grain, the mexican farmers couldn't compete. result - 25 million mexicans pushed off the land in 10 years time. Their government devalued their currency by about 75% all at once and also at the same time contracted their money supply dramatically. this caused a huge downturn in the mexican economy. this is why they came here.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
You sound like you spend most of your time on Fantasy Island. The illegals may agree with you to your face but then be on the phone talking to their cousins, uncles and whoever else back home in Mexico telling them to get ready to load up and come to America. That they have found Americans who are so foolish that they are going to give them amnesty like they did in '86 and in a few more years they will do it again. You know, one of the better definitions of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result every time. But you keep on doing what you always did and you're gonna keep getting what you always got. Want more illegals? Reward them with amnesty.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Speak for yourself, I'm just old enough that I escaped the "democracy" train in public school.
__________________________________________________________ I do appreciate you politely and sincerely explaining these things to me. regarding this 'america owes something' idea and the illegals. I will disagree with you on that idea on philosophical grounds. The governments of our states and our national government do owe the existing illegal immigrants something. they have been in our communities and working jobs and existing as people here. you and I don't owe them anything special. but government owes them respect for the fact that they live here, this is their home, government should serve the people who live here. that is powerful dissent that I offer. but I believe that. Government should serve the people who live here. Our government has played an agenda of letting them come to drive wages down, to keep employers happy, to divide us up, to do away with the middle-class. All of those agendas are illegitimate. but instead, the agenda of government should be to serve the people who live here.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Isn't that idea of yours akin to cowering down while a rapist has his way with your wife? It is obvious you are too conditioned by your Mexican friends to be of any further use to us, as rightful citizens of the USA.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The government owes the illegal aliens "respect" for invading America? That's a good one. Which comedian do you write for or do you have a stand up routine of your own? They (the illegal aliens) "have been in our communities" [uninvited] "and working jobs" [while actual Americans are unemployed] and "existing as people here" [what, they "existed as frogs" in Mexico?]. And I already knew that I didn't owe them anything but neither does the government. The government owes it to Americans to stop the invasion and deport the people who are in America illegally. The space they are taking up could be filled by people who applied for citizenship and who have been waiting a long time for it. People who never thought they had a right to jump the line ahead of everyone else like your illegal alien Mexicans think.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. The agenda of the government should be to confine itself to the duties specifically laid out for it in the Constitution. I have yet to find the clause that states the government has any duty to serve illegal aliens anything beyond sending them back to their own country and I have found that the government is SUPPOSED to protect the states from invasion. If they did that they would be "serving the people who live here LEGALLY." And that is the point you seem intent on missing.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. You're using lawyer's tactics. When the law is against you, argue the facts. You are pounding the table. When even Wikipedia is against you, you deny it. When even Ruben Navarette is against you, you deny it. Here is the quote from Ruben: And in 1973, in one of the most disgraceful chapters in UFW history, the union set up a "wet line" to prevent Mexican immigrants from entering the United States. Under the guidance of Chávez 's cousin, Manuel, UFW members tried at first to convince the immigrants not to cross. When that didn't work, they physically attacked the immigrants and left some bloody in the process. It happened in the same place that the Minutemen are now planning to gather: the Arizona-Mexico border. At the time, The Village Voice said that the UFW conducted a "campaign of random terror against anyone hapless enough to fall into its net." In their book, "The Fight in the Fields," Susan Ferris and Ricardo Sandoval recall the border incident and write that the issue of how to deal with the undocumented was "particularly vexing" for Chávez. How much more do I have to throw at you? Would you like me to start quoting biographies? Do you need video? You are wrong.
Somewhere, Jimmy Carter is laughing and saying, "Finally! I won't be the worst President ever!"
There's a topic for another thread -- the post-Dallas coup, the Johnson era, and who was pushing disasterous immigration policies at that time.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
you know, I just can't remember how many mexican rocket scientists I've seen carting their cyclotrons and high power microscopes on their backs as they cross the Rio Grande to sneak across the border....but thats just me...
__________________________________ No it's not "normal". It's wrong no matter how many rogues are doing it. You keep pushing a "lesser of two evils" pick as if giving citizenship to criminal invaders is the better option than guest workers. I disagree but we don't have to go with the guest worker option either. Both are wrong choices and not required. So, there's your wanted "compromise" -- neither; off the table now and into the shredder. We aren't the UN. This is America for Americans. You act as if Federal laws not targeting rogue employers hiring illegals is the main problem but did not answer my question about why Arizona hasn't acted to penalize discriminatory businesses there that avoid hiring Americans while consuming its resources. Arizona most certainly could and should do so, not just the Federales. Answer the question, please -- and I think you should also say something about why you think it's America's job to provide Mexicans with jobs and better living conditions, even though so many of our businesses have impoverished this country by moving to Mexico via NAFTA to do that for them and still Mexico feigns being too poor and/or deranged to provide for its own.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
yes, that is very nice. Perhaps according to standards of justice the creator has provided - America is for the Americans - as you say. Divine providence is ours in our country, I will agree with that. But our lawmakers, our business institutions, our people even, our educators, our religious leaders simply do not have that understanding that 'america is for the americans'. we have laws in our country that give special tax breaks to foreign-born people when they buy business franchises like hotels or convenience stores. Normally convenience stores and hotels even are franchised and there is a big corporation that sells each facility to a business person and then this business person operates the hotel/convenience store under the corporate rules of the franchise. These deals are financed. If whoever purchases the franchised business can qualify for the tax break, then the financier can provide better financing, meaning a higher sales price. A higher sales price because the expenses of operating calculate out lower over time, calculate lower because of the special tax break on income taxes that foreign born people get in the US. In this manner incentives are built in to make it in the corporation's interest to sell the franchise to a foreign-born person. this is the key reason why so many hotels and convenience stores are owned by foreign born people in the US. this is the reason why so many such institutions favor hiring foreign born people at those locations. they favor hiring their family and friends who happen to be foreign-born. The federal government has a law that favors them. we have lots of common practices that favor foreign born people in jobs. An economist did a study a few years ago and found that over a period of about 2 years he studied 91% of all new jobs in america went to foreign born people. I witnessed an employer in the construction industry decide not to even try to hire any americans for their work. I heard a part-owner of a trades contractor say that it was a waste of time, in justification of his decision to advertise for job openings in a spanish language radio station and hire 100% foreigners who are likely illegal. this happens every day. and it is OK according to the law. My point is that america is not for the americans according to how things are done. and anybody who tries to say these things in public is told to shut up and if they persist they're said to be racists. We're a nation that doesn't even know how to stand up for our own national interest. Don't blame me for that. You asked me very sincerely to comment as to why arizona does not pass a law to punish the employers for this behavior. Please don't hold me responsible for the Arizona republicans. they don't work for me. I could just as easily say that we should boycott people from Illinois or otherwise hate them because Obama came from Illinois. and the Obama government pursues policies of war and torture which are abhorrent, therefore we should persecute Illinois. Is it really a person in Illinois' fault if the washington government does evil things. Its not my fault and not your fault either that the washington government does evil things. You asked me to say why I thought it was America's job to provide jobs for mexicans. James told me we didn't owe them (Mexicans) anything. I answered him and told him what we owe them is respect. Especially if they live here and fit in as workers and community members. They came. They took the jobs. The employers did favor them. Even though we were wronged by the institutions that rule our country and we feel a very deep grievance over that, we should still remember that we have an obligation to do the right thing. And we shouldn't want wrong done to these illegal immigrants who do live here. I know that some of you have told me you don't care about their children born here. I respect your feelings. But I'm not going to go tell some 8-year old kid that his life must be turned upside down because his mommy & daddy were on the wrong side of a policy dispute. and I won't say it is a just thing if my government does that. a little kid growing up in our community is a high priority. Our world should be ordered so that the kid has a good place to live. injustice that reigns down on us does not remove this simple obligation that we have. my christian mindset leads me to the conclusions that it happens to be completely normal in the course of human history that people are treated very badly, and we are under a test given to us by our creator, a test to see how we will perform under these conditions, will we do wrong or will we not do wrong. The world is going to be screwed up. We can't control that. But we can control whether or not we ourselves contribute towards doing bad things. as I said at the top of this post I do buy the 'divine providence' idea that America is for the Americans, I think the creator made it so. But the creator is letting our country be destroyed. And we can't argue with the creator on that point. But following is what I have to tell you regarding this idea of our country and divine providence. Our nation is the greatest nation on gods green earth. We Americans tend to believe that very easily and I for one do believe that. Our accomplishments are many and mighty. Economic development that affected the lives of ordinary people on this planet began when our nation came into being. We were the catalyst as well as one of the main engines of economic development world-wide. that is simple history and not my opinion. For 30 consequtive decades from 1700 to 2000 our nation was a great trail-blazer essentially in all of the industries that caused economic development during that time. There were times during that 30 decade run when other nations contributed, but there was never a decade during that stretch when our nation was not the key leading nation in economic development for every important industry. These achievements did not happen without god. It was divine providence that caused these achievements. We should not let pride convince us otherwise. Because I say god is responsible for our nation's great achievements please don't think that I dis-respect the Americans among whom are my ancestors in their sacrifices and achievements. I am no fool. None of my ancestors came here to america after 1840. I'm descendant from people who were here in the 1600's. I'm descendant from 3 men who fought on our side in the revolution. I'm descendant from 2 men who fought for the north in that war and from 1 who fought for the south. We have a letter at my mother's house from my ancestor describing an indian attack on their home in Ohio in the 1820's. I'm descendant from a man who spent 25 years in the US Army beginning in 1856. That career included not just the civil war, but an awful of Indian fighting in Arizona. I read his letters too that described some of it. I'm as American as any of you and very happy to be so. But my christian faith tends to convince me that these fantastic achievements that no other nation can begin to match occurred because of divine favor. What god is doing now with our nation is letting it be destroyed. He let those evil people rule our country. We can do nothing about these things. One day our nation will be attacked militarily and completely destroyed. The whole world will sit back and marvel at our destruction. At that time jesus will return. He will return here to our country. and then he will raise people from the dead. The invading army itself will be defeated with the help of these people raised up from the dead. God will maintain that record throughout our entire history, that we will not be defeated in military action. but at the same time, our destruction will be overwhelming. There will be little left of our nation. Some time after these things occur our nation will be once again restored, and it will be god deciding when and how it will be restored. Why do I think these things? Because I've read the christian prophecies, and I read George Washington's prophecy too, and I've seen what is going on in this world. That is why. I think god gave us George Washington and used George Washington to speak this prophecy which was given to GW by means of an angel who visited him (George Washington says at least). I think god favors us just that much that he will do that for us. but we must understand that god does not orchestrate that human history unfold for our purposes, our pleasure, our pride, etc. It is orchestrated for god's purposes. Those purposes are spelled out in the book, if you were to read it. We should be humble and remember these things about our country. George Washington's prophecy specifically says that jesus will return here to America. I can imagine that he would go to Mount Vernon in Virginia where George Washington is buried. I can imagine that he would go to Arlington Cemetery. I sincerely hope that I am among the men who are tasked to fight against the invaders. What purpose do we have on this earth except to be loyal to that cause given to us by god? God made me an American. I'll be loyal to that cause. At the same time, god made me with a sense of justice and charity in my heart for downtrodden people. So I don't join in on illegal immigrant bashing. and when you want me to do that I just ask why it is that if the illegals are so bad, then why are employers not given penalties for hiring them?
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
buck, I really don't care if I'm of any use to you at all. I hope you won't be offended that I have never thought that you were of any use to me either.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I knew you'd be offended that I said our governments owed the illegal immigrants 'respect' if they've lived here and put down roots. I didn't want to offend you. If they have an emergency situation they should be able to call '911' and be treated like citizens. Their children should be welcomed in the schools. Their children are in the schools, but sometimes they have a hard time getting them enrolled in the schools because of their illegal status. Well, we let them come, we have an obligation to at least respect their presence. They can be our friends at this point or our enemies. We don't want them to be our enemies because they are becoming the majority in many places. Since they've lived here and worked here things have changed, we owe them respect as people who live here. They're part of our community now. I realize we disagree on this point, I apologize, but thats how I feel. an irony is that if we 'solve' this problem per my recommendation, then I would get every single illegal immigrant sat down with a government agent in a room and tell them flat to their face that they have a choice. either they can sign a paper agreeing to become a US citizen within 'x' years and do all the things they must to become a US citizen, such as speak english, and renounce their other citizenship, or else they can go home - immediately. I'd give them that choice. They'd almost all become US citizens is what they would do. Its not in our interest to make them hate us.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
a mirage is an illusion. Can't have a discussion with an illusion. the nature of your discussion indicates that there is no real discussion with you, it is a mirage.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Well so far I've proven you wrong on everything, so you're choosing to duck and ignore now. Lawyers' tricks all. In a real debate, resorting to insults signals surrender. I'm still waiting for your retraction and apology. I accept your surrender.
Somewhere, Jimmy Carter is laughing and saying, "Finally! I won't be the worst President ever!"
2. James told me we didn't owe them (Mexicans) anything. I answered him and told him what we owe them is respect. 1. Uh, why are you going to fight the invaders sometime in the future when you are welcoming them now? Sounds a bit schizophrenic to me. 2. We "owe respect" to people whose first act in coming to America is a crime against us? LOL! I think not. Respect is not given, it is earned. People who jump to the head of the line ahead of folks who have been standing in the line a long time get no respect from me.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Yeah, they should be able to call 911 or whatever its equivalent is IN MEXICO and be treated like a citizen. And their children should be welcomed in the schools IN MEXICO. It is not the duty of Americans to pay for every blessed thing illegal aliens want for goodness sakes.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. well I certainly appreciate your views. and I do not consider them to be illogical or unreasonable
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Few Americans would agree with that view. As an indicator of the illegals "desire" to assimilate and be Americans, legally, there have been many estimates of their "love" in case of war. All of the views I have read in the past agree that in wartime, there would be a FLOOD OF WOULD BE AMERICANS GOING SOUTH OF THE BORDER FOR SAFETY. Indicator of Mexicans for one, showing loyalty to friends, was WW2, they declined to enter WW2 until Germany sent their oil tankers headed to America to the bottom. They then entered the war, did NOTHING, took our aid, so the open hand is their national pastime.
“Give me your tired, and your poor, "NOW SHOW ME YOUR STINKIN' PAPERS, JOSE, OR I'LL GIVE YOU AN ENEMA WITH A .38 SPECIAL. WHO ARE YOU TO MAKE A MOCKERY OF THOSE IMMIGRANTS WHO OBEY OUR IMMIGRATION LAWS"?
Droppin' trou and making anchors must be running it a close second.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. The legal way. There were no handouts, they made it on their own. In case of war and the beaners flood south, watch the very same Americans demand we respect their wishes to go "home" for safety.
"Non-citizens The Selective Service (and the draft) in the United States is not limited to citizens. Howard Stringer was drafted in 1965, six weeks after arriving from his native Britain.[82][83] Today, non-citizen males of appropriate age in the United States, who are permanent residents (holders of Green Cards), seasonal agricultural workers, refugees, parolees, asylees, and even illegal immigrants, are required to register with the Selective Service System.[84] Refusal to do so is grounds for denial of a future citizenship application." In addition, immigrants who seek to naturalize as citizens must, as part of the Oath of Citizenship, swear to the following: ... that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law;[85" I wonder how many of our illegal little friends have bothered to register??????? Such laws are for Americans, not freeloaders looking for a handout.
Of course. To argue for anything else is to strike down a nation's capability to orderly allow immigration to ebb and flow as needed. All else is anarchy and adds an unsustainable tax burden on an already over taxed people. As for the businesses who hire illegals, I wouldn't hire them to remove as much as a weed from my lawn. How would I know the business hired illegals? I'd profile by first asking the business owner if he hired illegals and second by listening to the language of the workforce. I only hire English speakers as communication is important to satisfying the customer (me).
Here in hills, the native trailer park, white trash, are not nice people because we have no tolerance for "outsiders". Therefore the beaners hustle thru the area, seldom lingering. They are smart enough to smell "bias" when they tarry too long. Hey, we dont like others, others dont like us, so we are even, just leave us alone, AND STAY THE HELL IN MEXICO.
We're bigoted, biased and could care less what others think or feel. The closest I've come to anything near a Mexican is watching Señor Wences do his act on the old Ed Sullivan show. Despite all the Diversity I've missed in my lifetime, I feel just peachy.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I'm probably not going to have time this session to address all of your points but I'd like to start by referring you to Luke 4:25-27 for consideration on your spiritual perspective: King James Reference Bible - The Book of Luke, Chapter 4 In addition to those scriptures which tell of Jesus explaining that two major prophets were sent to help and heal Gentiles during famine and affliction, Jesus explained that His own people were the priority of His ministery. The Gentiles who came to Him for help, like the Centurion and the woman who beseeched Him for crumbs from the Master's table, received compassion and healing miracles too but from a distance during that time. Can you see the correlation to America's historical efforts in trying to help and heal the conditions of others, even to the point of overlooking and undermining the best interests of its own citizens, and the situation now where America must focus on helping its own because it is stumbling under the weight of what you and those you are lobbying for expect it to bear? From Luke 4:23. And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
My point is that america is not for the americans according to how things are done. and anybody who tries to say these things in public is told to shut up and if they persist they're said to be racists. We're a nation that doesn't even know how to stand up for our own national interest. Don't blame me for that. Everybody here has been trying to stand up for our own national interest and you have been calling that racist. America has been virtually landmined by foreign and domestic enemies of our Constitutional system to be destroyed and some people don't even realize that's what they are doing. Stop working for them and calling for the criminal invaders who have wronged us to be rewarded with "amnesty" for that again. As I said before: Been there, done that, bad idea. I am willing to support your call for businesses to be restricted from hiring illegals and even from employing any guest workers whenever employment of Americans here is below 100%. I don't think anyone here wouldn't support your stand for enforcement against businesses that aid and abet illegal invaders. There is a workable alliance for you on that issue. Stop pushing the envelope for more bad government to favor your illegal compadres. Complaining about bad government favoring foreigners while calling for more bad government to favor foreigners isn't helping the problem of bad government at all. You asked me to say why I thought it was America's job to provide jobs for mexicans. James told me we didn't owe them (Mexicans) anything. I answered him and told him what we owe them is respect. Especially if they live here and fit in as workers and community members. They came. They took the jobs. The employers did favor them. I asked you to say something about NAFTA too. Please try to do that at your earliest convenience. Which Democrats there have tried to get such a law passed and which Republicans stopped it? How long have Republicans had that much influence there? The Governor before Brewer was a Democrat. "They came. They took the jobs. The employers did favor them." sounds like the equivalent of Israel's MO to "create facts on the ground" in defiance and violation of law and human rights that they believe should stay as they want because they say so. Illegal alien migrants do not have some "human right" to demand America adopt an Open Border policy for them. Your next to last sentence sounds very close to a globalist pitch for a New World Order agenda. The illegal are not the wronged party, we are, and we are not having a "policy dispute". They are criminal invaders and you are disputing any deportation of them as such. Military families here move often -- out of country too. How many parent illegals within the recruitment age bracket have tried to become citizens by joining our military? When you see them, tell them to call 1-800-USA-ARMY. There's a path to citizenship that's been available to them for years. We have no obligation to give them any path to become Americans but there it is anyway. Not expecting any thanks from them for it, just less bellyaching.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Excellent response. I have posted here numerous times that by "our" law, illegals of age must also register for any possible draft. Do they??? Of course not. For obvious reasons they desire the fruit this country offers, just do NOT expect a law abiding citizen in return.
I have not intended to project the image that I call somebody a racist for standing up for the american national interest. regarding the international trade treaties such as NAFTA - I think we should fashion a trade policy that favors our domestic economy. meaning, we should not have an overvalued currency that prevents us from exporting as much as we import. Trade can be profitable for a nation or not. we need to adjust trade policy so tat it is profitable from the point of view of our people. we should not be running massive trade deficits.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Fact is, red, that we tried this once under Reagan. It was the signal, not for a just for a flood of legalized residents, but for the deluge of illegals that we currently suffer from, and it came with the attendant cover that it provided for gangs, cartels, and all the just plain dangerous riff-raff that slid in with it. You'll get no purchase with that kind of argument here, that's for sure, and not in the nation at large which has come to know the meaning of the aphorism, "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, I'm a nickel-plated jackass.
There is no long form.
if you want to be a stupid idiot, then I have no control over it. the facts are that employers today can hire illegal immigrants with no real penalty from the federal government. so it has never been tried. you are an idiot. and I am sick and tired of my dysfunctional fellow americans taking political views like that, spouting stupidity. I can say 100 times or 1,000 times that it is still legal to this day for employers to hire all the illegal immigrants they want. and an idiot like you will correct me and tell me that we tried amnesty in 1986. it doesn't work. in order to get 'it' to work you must combine amnesty with employer sanctions. we have never tried the employer sanctions part of the strategy. you are an idiot not to know this. especially after all the posts I put up telling you this.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I can say 100 times or 1,000 times that it is still legal to this day for employers to hire all the illegal immigrants they want. Please, let's keep our feet on the ground. You know as well as I do that you can be fined up to two grand for each illegal you hire - more if you have previous violations. We have a malfeasant federal government that WILL NOT DO ITS JOB because it seeks to create just the kind of swamp of lawbreaking that we face. The PTB WANT you to break the law, and illegals and many employers are willing to break the law. I'll take "It is still legal to this day," to mean, "It is OK to get away with murder," because murder's what is being committed on the working and tax paying people of this country. in order to get 'it' to work you must combine amnesty with employer sanctions I dunno. I think the whole country is in a real foul mood right now and isn't of a mind to combine anything with anything else. Employer sanctions will do fine all by themselves, thank you.
There is no long form.
As Dubya so eloquently stated:
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. That was one of the most revealing moments of that sordid administration and presidency.
There is no long form.
I shouldn't let my frustration cause me to be rude to you. we were told that we'd use amnesty in combination with employer sanctions to change things. we did amnesty and the amnesty part worked because those people did generally become citizens. but we did not do the employer sanctions part. I used to work for the largest stucco contractor in america. they would typically have about 7,000 employees. I wrote their software to manage their whole system including payroll and many other things. and so I had opportunity to speak to people running their systems. it was evident to me and to the people working there that a large portion of those 7,000 people were illegal immigrants. Even today I know people who hire illegal immigrants. they're put right into the payroll system. there is no fear of penalty at all. maybe the law does make it a technical violation to hire an illegal immigrant. but there is no actual penalty levied on the employer in almost all cases. It is very difficult to trigger penalties, the penalties are also very light. many employers ignore the fact that it is illegal because, as I said, there are no real penalties for hiring illegals.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I'd be glad if they implemented real employer sanctions. they don't and nobody even introduces it into congress for consideration. these same politicians who don't allow employer sanctions tell us that a huge number of troops and a border fence will stop the illegals. this is surreal. sanctions of employers who hire illegals is the only way to generally stop them from coming. and that is the one thing that we have actually not done.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
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#66. To: X-15 (#64)
Read my post again
#67. To: Red Jones (#62)
they can be our allies on this issue, but we must make a deal, the existing illegals stay and we shut off new arrivals. they'll agree to that.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#68. To: Red Jones (#66)
I'm not trying to offend you...you've been indoctrinated to believe in democracy, just as we all have been.
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#69. To: James Deffenbach (#61)
America OWES something
#70. To: Red Jones (#62)
we should listen to what the mexicans want if we had any brains at all.
#71. To: Red Jones (#69)
The governments of our states and our national government do owe the existing illegal immigrants something. they have been in our communities and working jobs and existing as people here. you and I don't owe them anything special. but government owes them respect for the fact that they live here,...
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#72. To: Red Jones (#69)
"...the agenda of government should be to serve the people who live here."
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#73. To: Red Jones (#52)
you have no real facts relating to our discussion. just obfuscation and unrelated claims?
When the facts are against you, argue the law.
When everything is against you, pound the table.Here's the ironic part: Despite the fact that Chávez is these days revered among Mexican-American activists, the labor leader in his day was no more tolerant of illegal immigration than the Arizona Minutemen are now. Worried that the hiring of illegal immigrants drove down wages, Chávez – according to numerous historical accounts – instructed union members to call the Immigration and Naturalization Service to report the presence of illegal immigrants in the fields and demand that the agency deport them. UFW officials were even known to picket INS offices to demand a crackdown on illegal immigrants.
#74. To: X-15 (#57)
We've been sold out since 1965 on the immigration issue
#75. To: Red Jones (#0)
________________________________
#76. To: Red Jones (#41)
(Edited)
I do object to the term 'rogue employer'. because in the construction industry here in phoenix it is completely normal that illegal immigrants be hired to do the work.
#77. To: GreyLmist (#76)
This is America for Americans.
#78. To: buckeroo (#70)
to be of any further use to us
#79. To: James Deffenbach (#71)
The government owes the illegal aliens "respect" for invading America? That's a good one
#80. To: mirage (#73)
#81. To: Red Jones (#80)
#82. To: Red Jones (#77)
1. I sincerely hope that I am among the men who are tasked to fight against the invaders.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#83. To: Red Jones (#79)
If they have an emergency situation they should be able to call '911' and be treated like citizens. Their children should be welcomed in the schools.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#84. To: James Deffenbach (#83)
#85. To: Red Jones, Jethro tull, James Deffenbacj, randge, All (#79)
we have an obligation to at least respect their presence.
#86. To: Cynicom, 4 (#85)
(Edited)
Your huddled masses yearning to be free…
these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
#87. To: Cynicom (#85)
the open hand is their national pastime.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#88. To: Jethro Tull (#86)
“Give me your tired, and your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to be free… these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
#89. To: James Deffenbach, Jethjro tull, all (#87)
#90. To: Cynicom, 4 (#88)
The legal way.
#91. To: Jethro Tull (#90)
#92. To: Cynicom (#91)
#93. To: All (#92)
#94. To: Red Jones (#77)
(Edited)
#95. To: Red Jones (#77)
we have lots of common practices that favor foreign born people in jobs. An economist did a study a few years ago and found that over a period of about 2 years he studied 91% of all new jobs in america went to foreign born people. I witnessed an employer in the construction industry decide not to even try to hire any americans for their work. I heard a part- owner of a trades contractor say that it was a waste of time, in justification of his decision to advertise for job openings in a spanish language radio station and hire 100% foreigners who are likely illegal. this happens every day. and it is OK according to the law.
You asked me very sincerely to comment as to why arizona does not pass a law to punish the employers for this behavior. Please don't hold me responsible for the Arizona republicans. they don't work for me. I could just as easily say that we should boycott people from Illinois or otherwise hate them because Obama came from Illinois. and the Obama government pursues policies of war and torture which are abhorrent, therefore we should persecute Illinois. Is it really a person in Illinois' fault if the washington government does evil things. Its not my fault and not your fault either that the washington government does evil things.
Even though we were wronged by the institutions that rule our country and we feel a very deep grievance over that, we should still remember that we have an obligation to do the right thing. And we shouldn't want wrong done to these illegal immigrants who do live here. I know that some of you have told me you don't care about their children born here. I respect your feelings. But I'm not going to go tell some 8-year old kid that his life must be turned upside down because his mommy & daddy were on the wrong side of a policy dispute. and I won't say it is a just thing if my government does that. a little kid growing up in our community is a high priority. Our world should be ordered so that the kid has a good place to live. injustice that reigns down on us does not remove this simple obligation that we have.
#96. To: GreyLmist (#95)
(Edited)
#97. To: GreyLmist (#95)
Everybody here has been trying to stand up for our own national interest and you have been calling that racist.
#98. To: Red Jones (#79)
I would get every single illegal immigrant sat down with a government agent in a room and tell them flat to their face that they have a choice. either they can sign a paper agreeing to become a US citizen within 'x' years and do all the things they must to become a US citizen, such as speak english, and renounce their other citizenship, or else they can go home - immediately.
#99. To: randge (#98)
Fact is, red, that we tried this once under Reagan.
#100. To: Red Jones (#99)
(Edited)
#101. To: randge (#98)
"Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, I'm a nickel-plated jackass."
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#102. To: James Deffenbach (#101)
#103. To: randge (#100)
Please, let's keep our feet on the ground. You know as well as I do that you can be fined up to two grand for each illegal you hire
#104. To: randge (#100)
Employer sanctions will do fine all by themselves, thank you.
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