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Title: Report: 1 in 15 kids in U.S. has illegal immigrant parent
Source:
East Valley Tribune
URL Source: http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/ar ... 84-11df-9c10-001cc4c002e0.html
Published: Aug 11, 2010
Author: Howard Fischer, Capitol Media Services
Post Date: 2010-08-11 21:07:27 by Red Jones
Keywords: None
Views: 1725
Comments: 119
Report: 1 in 15 kids in U.S. has illegal immigrant parent Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:52 pm | Updated: 5:47 pm, Wed Aug 11, 2010. Howard Fischer, Capitol Media Services | 2 comments About one out of every 15 children in the United States was born to a family where at least one parent is in this country illegally, according to a new report Wednesday. And four out of five of those 5.1 million children -- including 340,000 born in just 2008 -- are citizens because they were born in the United States, the Pew Hispanic Center concluded. That, according to some, makes them ``anchor babies'' for their illegal parents. The figures, which the organization calculated based on 2009 U.S. Census Bureau estimates, are the best estimates to date of the scope of the issue which has resulted in calls to amend the U.S. Constitution to deny automatic citizenship to children solely by virtue of their birth within this country. That percentage of children of illegal immigrant may be increasing. The overall figure is about 6.8 percent of all children 17 and younger who have at least one illegal immigrant parent. But Pew Hispanic figures that 7.9 percent of all births during 2008 -- that 340,000 figure -- were offspring of "unauthorized'' immigrants. Researchers peg the number of illegal immigrants in the United States at something slightly in excess of 4 percent of the total population. "But because they are relatively young and have high birth rates, their children make up a much larger share of the newborn population and the child population in this country,'' the report states. The report does not say how many of those 5.1 million children of illegal immigrants are in Arizona. But Jeff Passel, the senior demographer at Pew Hispanic Center, pointed to an earlier study which concluded that Arizona has about 4.2 percent of the total illegal immigrants in the entire country. Using that as a rough estimate, that translates to more than 214,000 children from birth through age 17 in the state where at least one parent is not here legally. And, based on the Pew figures nationwide, about 170,000 of these would be considered "anchor babies'' born in this country. That also tracks with estimates in previous Pew reports which show that up to 110,000 children in Arizona public schools were born in this country into families where one or both parents are undocumented, with possibly 65,000 more school children who are themselves illegal immigrants. The numbers will figure in the debate over the future of the 14th Amendment. It states that children born or naturalized in the United States are citizens of both this country and the state where they reside. Courts have interpreted that to entitle citizenship to those born in the United States regardless of whether one or both parents had no legal right to be here. Some foes, including Sen. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, argue those rulings are flawed. He noted that the amendment makes its provisions conditional on the children being "subject to the jurisdiction'' of this country. Pearce said courts, citing that language, concluded for years that did not entitle Native Americans to citizenship. "There's no doubt where they were born,'' he said. It was only after Congress specifically altered the law regarding citizenship for Indians that the situation changed. Pearce is weighing whether to have Arizona bring a new challenge to those court rulings. That would take the form of a state law denying birth certificates to children born in Arizona unless they could show at least one parent is in this country legally. That likely would provoke a lawsuit. But Pearce said a simpler course would be to have the issue handled at the federal level. U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., is pushing to amend the Constitution to spell out that mere birth within U.S. borders does not entitle someone to citizenship. That process, though, is cumbersome, requiring either a constitutional convention or ratification of any change approved by two-thirds of the U.S. House and Senate by three-fourths of all state legislatures. Pearce, however, said that's not necessary. "Congress could fix it tomorrow,'' he said. "All it needs is clarification.'' He pointed out that the 14th Amendment, which also deals with issues of voting rights and who can hold office, also spells out that Congress "shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.'' "So they put it in there in case there was some abuse, or something misunderstood,'' Pearce said. Applicable language of 14th Amendment All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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#1. To: Red Jones (#0)
1 in 15? That would be at least 7000 nationwide.
"The people in power will not disappear voluntarily, giving flowers to the cops just isn't going to work. This thinking is fostered by the establishment; they like nothing better than love and nonviolence. The only way I like to see cops given flowers is in a flower pot from a high window.” - William S Burroughs
Try 700,000. There's at least 50 Million illegals in the United States. I know, I've seen some of the raw data coming in from friends of mine. They say that one in 6 people is an illegal alien. They seem to congregate in the large metropolitan areas where they can essentially go un-noticed, and then spread to the urban and rural areas to mask their numbers. In my neighborhood alone there are at least a dozen. For anyone to say that this isn't an invasion, would be ignorant, and stupid.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
7000 was the number of anchor babies estimated by some crap (yet mainstream) news I saw on TV a couple days ago. It must work, there must be millions of people out there pacified by these lies, why else would the multinational conglomerates spend billions of dollars on companies they already own to keep this dreck on the air? I may have answered my own question. :)
"The people in power will not disappear voluntarily, giving flowers to the cops just isn't going to work. This thinking is fostered by the establishment; they like nothing better than love and nonviolence. The only way I like to see cops given flowers is in a flower pot from a high window.” - William S Burroughs
The law needs to be changed fast. Illegals who have kids in the USA need to take their kids with them back home. This insanity has to end!
God is always good!
Social Security is saved. Tax the hell out of them.
Somewhere, Jimmy Carter is laughing and saying, "Finally! I won't be the worst President ever!"
Rojo Why are you bitching, these are your "good neighbors"? Enjoy your political choices, you voted for Obama, this is what you wanted.
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
according to international treaties already signed the US has agreed that the foreign workers in our economy and paying into the social security program will receive social security benefits. about 8 years ago the federal government reviewed payroll data from employers all over the nation to identify illegal immigrants paying into the social security program. The purpose was to identify these people so that the accounting on social security contributions could be clarified. That was under the bush admin that millions of illegals were identified and allowed to stay. They will receive social security benefits whether they choose to stay here or not, whether they are deported or not. Mexico will reciprocate and any americans down there paying into their retirement fund will also get benefits from their retirement fund. Don't blame me, this is what republicans and democrats agreed to years ago. Over 20 years ago we were told that it was good for illegals to work in our economy as we were told they'd contribute to social security and not receive benefits. The truth is very different from what we were told.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Bitching means complaining. I wasn't complaining. I only posted an article.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Ah but you see, since they are US Citizens then their foreign income is taxed as well. If they choose to renounce US Citizenship and the Feds think it is for tax purposes, then they get to fork over half of all their assets immediately. Either way, the problem can be solved simply by enforcing existing tax laws. There is also that pesky Selective Service Act. $250,000 fine for not registering and there is NO DISTINCTION between legal or illegal in the act. The Act also requires people to keep the Feds notified of their residence. Simply by enforcing a couple of laws, we can solve all of our revenue issues.
Somewhere, Jimmy Carter is laughing and saying, "Finally! I won't be the worst President ever!"
Rojo That's the point, you love these wetback invaders, don't you?
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
Flintlock - where I live if they kicked out all the illegals, then our tax base would be negatively affected. as you know our economy is in such bad shape that it is not responsible to damage the tax base. That is one reason that I simply don't favor kicking the existing illegals out. I don't prefer that they be turned into guest workers, I prefer they become citizens. But I don't think an immigration reform package will pass unless you do let the existing illegals stay here. Too many people recognize it to be harmful and counter-productive to kick them out. I see the great danger in immigration reform being guest workers. Almost all Republicans favor guest workers, it is an extremely high priority for them. But many democrats do not want any guest workers. it is far worse (IMO) to have a steady stream of guest workers than it is to forgive some illegals and let them stay. It boggles my mind that Ronald Reagan's point of view on this issue is today considered 'liberal' by many who call themselves 'conservative'. Reagan of course wanted to forgive the illegals, but stop employers from hiring new illegals. We never tried to implement that solution. And even back in 1986 it was known that we were not making any effort. Our lawmakers opened the door for illegals. That is what we should understand. You can't reverse that decision.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
they're just ordinary people to me. People under-estimate that you can't send them all home. Consider the ethnic mexicans who were born in our country, the ones whose families may go back generations. I know a mexican guy who is 78 years old and fought in the korean war. These ethnic mexicans who were born here will not tolerate seeing the illegals sent home. These ethnic mexicans don't want new illegals coming. but they will not allow the illegal mexicans to be sent back. it tears our country apart too much to send them back.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Are you joking? There aren't enough unemployed Americans in your area to fill the job openings and so have more money they could spend into circulation, minus all the costs to the economy that were due to the illegals? Sounds to me like you're not doing the math right.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
They're not dictators here. Watch this 5 min. YouTube video: Longer version posted below it at 4um topic Immigration Gumballs.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
That's why a number of them became Minutemen. Its why Cesar Chavez, the original Minuteman, sent his union thugs to the border with baseball bats. Its why Cesar Chavez worked with INS to deport illegals. Its why a HUGE number of ethnic Mexicans are border patrol agents. Like Compean and Ramos if you remember them. I don't think 'Ramos' is a German or Slavic name, but I could be wrong. They do all that because all ethnic Mexicans think alike and they don't want them sent home.
Somewhere, Jimmy Carter is laughing and saying, "Finally! I won't be the worst President ever!"
there are a lot of employers local who make zero effort whatsoever to hire Americans and instead hire from spanish language sources. that is, they do their advertising for new workers on spanish language media. and then since they don't e-verify they end up hiring 80% illegals. and this is what they do, it is their strategy. They were afraid of the Arizona laws, but over time they have learned not to be afraid. I disapprove of this by the employers. but still, if you push the workforce out of the country it will have a negative impact on the tax base. I'm in favor of keeping the employers from hiring new illegals. The other people in my country insist that the employers always be free to hire foreigners and bring them here to work. Republicans dominate my state's politics. They refuse to penalize employers for hiring foreigners. They insist that when immigration reform occurs that we will have guest workers. Don't blame me for this state of affairs. Where I live if all the children born to illegals were kicked out, then many schools would lose 80% of their students. Many employers would lose key people and a substantial part of their force. when we damage the local tax base, then we reduce local government tax revenue. when we do that, we shut down schools and make many services from the government impossible. where I live it has been discussed cutting police and fire department even though those services have gone for years without their budgets keeping up with inflation.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
these ethnic mexicans I speak of that are in reality americans are a significant part of our communities in states like arizona, texas, new mexico & southern cal. In the 1830's when there was a rebellion by California against Mexico it was ethnic mexicans who were doing the rebellion. They founded California. My ancestors first came to arizona in 1856. there were some ethnic mexicans already here at that time. You don't understand, but you're advocating that we dictate to to them. What I'm telling you is that the hard-line on illegals where we say 'kick them all out' is extremely divisive and makes any solution to illegal immigrant problem impossible.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
if you really want to say and think stupid things because of your politics, then that's your choice. the passion that many Americans have against illegal immigrants among us is extremely divisive. the ethnic mexicans who are in reality mexican-american and US citizens of which I speak do tend to agree with me that they do not want new illegals coming here. They also agree with me that they do not want guest workers. It is the whites who want guest workers and vote for politicians who will bring them. But when it comes to kicking out somebody who has been here for 15 years, holds a responsible job and has children here, then the ethnic mexicans are strongly opposed to kicking people like that out. they recognize anti-mexican passion when they see it. and you are a fool not to be more aware of this.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
you really think that the name Cesar Chavez is a symbol for the people opposed to illegal immigrants? If that is so, then you live in a dream-world. The name Cesar Chavez is used by the ethnic mexicans and they are 100% opposed to kicking out existing illegals. When we have pro-immigrant protests in Arizona the name Cesar Chavez is displayed by the protesters. Cesar Chavez was a supporter of the people who live here and do the work. He would be strongly opposed to guest workers. Republicans and the people who hate illegal immigrants love guest workers. Cesar Chavez' type of politics is very different.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Red - switch to decaf and take a history class or three. You may just learn something. Cesar Chavez DID send goons to the border WITH baseball bats and they DID beat the snot out of border crossers. Just because you choose not to believe it or someone else chooses not to believe it does not make it false. It just means you or they or both are ignorant. As for letting them stay, I'm all for it. Pay the $250,000 Selective Service fine and I'm happy. What, you didn't know that is existing law? Check it out.
Somewhere, Jimmy Carter is laughing and saying, "Finally! I won't be the worst President ever!"
Mirage - you're a nutcase. You've argued that mexican-americans want to see illegal immigrants sent back to their home countries and you've argued that Cesar Chavez felt this way. Mexican americans and Cesar Chavez are exactly like me. They want to see new illegals stopped from coming. They don't want to see people who've lived here and been a part of the community persecuted by deporting them. I live in arizona. I remember the big immigration protest a few years ago. Banners with the name Cesar Chavez were raised up by those people. and those people were protesting in favor of the existing illegal immigrants. You're a nutcase. so cesar chavez opposed the flow of new people here? what else is new? That is very different from bashing the existing people who live here. If the psycho-nuts in our country can't accept the existing illegals out of their own racism and hatred, then we can't hope to achieve any sort of a solution to stop the new flows of people off. Gaining the consensus among us to stop new illegals and/or new guest workers from coming is easy. The mexican-americans are happy to go along with that. But if the deal includes kicking out all the existing illegals, then we'll never have a consensus. You don't know anything about cesar chavez. you are an idiot. and I mean that very sincerely. why do people without brains participate in our national discussion? why are you so alienated from and ignorant of our realities that we live with in the southwest? Yet you insist on commenting.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Calling people "idiot" and "stupid" to try and bolster your point doesn't speak well of your debating skills. You seem, from what I can tell, to be an almost full fledged progressive. Outside of wanting to get rid of the Federal Reserve and trim back the military budget, I can't find a single real point of agreement between you and most anybody here. And now the name calling starts, notably the infamous liberal/progressive fallback of "you're stupid, you're an idiot, you're a racist". Hmmmmmm.....
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
I'm not really trying to score debate points. I'm just telling it like it is and I'd prefer to live in the world of reality. Cesar Chavez is dead. but his image is used by the pro-illegal immigration forces. mirage says that cesar chavez would want to deport the illegals if he was here. This is 100% false, he would be on their side. That is kind of like saying that George Washington was really a loyalist in our revolution because he fought in the french & indian war. I'd really prefer to live in reality than to coddle mirage's delusions. I think it is important to confront people's delusions and mental illnesses when it comes to their political discussions. Cesar Chavez would deport the illegals who've been here for 20 years and have families here. Sure he would. the man's an idiot.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
It has nothing to do with scoring points. It has to do with a lack of effective debating techniques. Falling back on "you're stupid, you're an idiot, you're a racist" (and now, what, mental illness? That's a classic Soviet debate tactic, did you know that?) is base ad hominem and invalidates your points, if you have any, immediately through association. Those very words are almost always used by the far left in "debates" concerning illegal immigration and how to deal with it, and it shows a general tone deafness to any viewpoint but their own. It's fine to try to express viewpoints about Chavez or disagree with somebody's take on him. Opinions differ, especially in regards to union labor activists, but that opinions differ doesn't make somebody stupid, or an idiot, or especially a racist. Those cards are played out now, especially here and on most other non-left forums. They simply do not work, and further, they indicate to the person that you're debating that you're out of facts and short on reason in the debate. Do as you will, I'm trying to help you retain credibility, but you can choose any path of course.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
No. You're worse.
Higher rates of SGA but greater chances of survival within birth weight-for-gestation groups and lower energy expenditure during puberty in African American than non-Hispanic white girls support the possibility that African American girls are born with a lower energy expenditure than non-Hispanic white girls.
up is down. down is up. 2+2=5. are there any other statements you wish me to make in order to respect somebody's sensibilities? insanity is insanity. when people say incredibly ridiculous things like that Cesar Chavez would kick out the illegals, then we should challenge them for this and tell them how stupid (and crazy) it is. Cesar Chavez was a person. But today his symbol is very important to the mexican-american population and to the illegals who came here which is a significant component of the mexican community here. They stick together out of ethnic identification. you cannot divide them is what I've tried to explain to you. It is like I said, George Washington was not loyal to the English king during the Revolution. Saying that Washington was loyal to the english king during that war is exactly the same as saying that Cesar Chavez would kick out the existing illegals in our country. We have a Cesar Chavez high school and a Cesar Chavez park near where I live. Saying what mirage said about Cesar Chavez is like saying that Martin Luther King opposed civil rights in the 1960's. the man is a nut. You say that I should politely ignore mirage's insanity on an important issue because mirage lives apparently in new york city and is oblivious to our realities in the southwest. it is the same as saying that 2+2=5. just because cesar chavez opposed new illegals coming here does not mean that he would kick the existing illegals out. we've known for decades that the mexican-americans are more likely than white americans to want to stop new illegals from coming here. But the illegals that come are mostly mexican. and they are attacked for being mexicans. the existing mexican-americans naturally rally around them to defend them. Cesar Chavez was like that. He was a mexican-american himself. I've tried to explain that you are not going to stop the flow of new illegals and/or new guest workers unless you respect the existing illegals who have come here and earned a place in our society through their daily work. If you insist on disrespecting these people out of hatred caused by whatever source, then you are causing our country to have to put up with new people coming - forever. next, mirage will say that Cesar Chavez really favored guest workers. Republicans favor guest workers. Cesar Chavez did not. Republicans will not allow a solution to our immigration mess unless that solution includes guest workers.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
No it doesn't make any solution to the illegal alien migrant problem impossible. That is the solution which should penalize them as well with never being able to apply for citizenship here.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
so you'd rather just bury your head in bigotry and accept an endless stream of guest workers that the republicans want in order to destroy our labor market for white Americans? You'd rather do that than respect people of another ethnic group? People on this web site are saying that people who grew up here in America and speak english as a first language should be deported, people who think in their minds that they are American, people who've never even been to these countries that you want them deported to. and they'd rather stick with this bigotry even though it means we can't find a solution and in the end our inability to find a solution empowers those politicians who want guest workers. If we can't treat people decently and try to provide justice for people's situations in life, then why are we so arrogant to think that such justice will be provided to us? and if you can't see the injustice of deporting somebody who has a place here and not there, then you're hopeless. the end result is that you want to divide our country up into factions and ruin us, for what? For guest workers and employer sensibilities?
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I honestly don't care about Chavez or your debate about him with mirage. What I'm telling you is that running around screaming "mental illness!" "stupid!" and "idiot!" during a discussion will get you put on the bozo-filter by most people here in short order. So you can choose to use your voice to express your viewpoint and have people listen, or you can sneer, call names, and call people mentally ill for not seeing your delivered wisdom, and soon find yourself talking to...yourself. Just saying. Do as you will.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
that is the kind of a political view that makes a solution impossible. and it enables the republicans who want guest workers. Some republicans want to turn the existing illegals into guest workers and then bring in more guest workers. Some republicans want to kick the illegals out, bar them from ever coming back and also bring in new guest workers. Some democrats will not tolerate the existing illegals being kicked out. Some democrats will not tolerate guest workers. and so we as a people cannot even bring about a situation where employers are penalized for hiring illegals - even though it is widely stated on all sides that we should stop the flow of new illegals. a sad pitiful situation. I would rather compromise and let the existing illegals stay and then stop all new illegals as well as not have guest workers. The democrats will go along with that solution. That solution was proposed by Ronald Reagan. It is today's republicans who will not allow that solution. I am becoming convinced that one of the reasons we can't find a solution is because of intractable opinions motivated by racism. Many Americans are uncomfortable with the idea that all of our workers will be free and able to quit their employers. They want kept people for the employers. They want semi-slaves. It is no different from 300 years ago. Many people where I live speak a foreign language. I am not happy over this. It did not used to be that way. We are being divided up because of these bigotries. Our laws were arranged to facilitate that they come. We can't change that mistake retro-actively. We can only change it for the future.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Ah, I see, so you're all for adding 20+ million new voters to the Democrats roll. Well isn't that just dandy? Why not have them go through the same process every legal immigrant has gone through? We can't why? Because they broke the law, so they're immune from any other requirements? Again, dandy. Of course you're convinced of that. This is the talking point put forward by the progressives. If you don't agree to anything they dictate, then you're a racist. That's the line. Um, hate to point it out, but the House and Senate both are fully controlled by Democrats, and there's a Democrat in the White House. It's not the Republicans doing it guy. You need to get an update on your talking points.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
I can certainly appreciate that. but OTOH when I use these words 'insane', 'mental illness', 'stupid', I am discussing. Those words have meanings. if you follow the discussion we're having mirage implied that Cesar Chavez wanted to kick out illegal immigrants from mexico who have been here for 20 years. It is exactly the same as saying that up is down. Mirage doesn't know anything about the mexican-american community and cesar chavez. He's completely insane on that point. I don't see how we can have a discussion when every time someone interjects something that stupid we're not allowed to challenge them with plain words that speak the truth.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Not knowing something, or disagreeing about the facts, doesn't make somebody insane. You're "allowed" to say anything you want. I'm just telling you, that falling back on standard leftist sneering insults will be the most effective way to silence yourself that you can find. There's nothing more really to say about it from my point. Cheers.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
So, what you're trying to tell me in your first two paragraphs is that if the illegal alien migrant workforce was pushed out of the country, your area's taxbase would not recover by employment of Americans instead because the businesses there would discriminate against them and import guest workers from Spanish language sources? Which businesses there should be investigated for that discriminatory practice? If the schools have to close down from deportation of illegals, good, imo. Then students could be homeschooled online or alternative schooled, likely much better overall and more efficiently. Arizona could save lots of money that's being wasted on the current dinosaur system and so could the Federal government. Many teachers and their subdivisions and their union key people and such would just have to...what's the word?...retrain for other careers like other Americans have been told to do. As for the police and fire department situation you mentioned, it's likewise here. I got stopped at one of the periodic Gestapo checkpoints they set up within the last year or so and the policeman introduced himself, then said he was from the next county over. I was in a hurry and didn't feel like chatting so I didn't ask him if he was lost, like I should have for being out of his jurisdiction. Since then, there's been some merger so maybe he was...in- training for that or something.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Martin Luther King was opposed to the civil rights laws of 1964 and 1965. George Washington fought for the King of England in our revolution. You're an idiot if you believe those statements. insane is a reasonable description of people who believe those statements. I'm not going to sacrifice on our pursuit of the truth for an insane person's sensibilities that they don't like having their feelings hurt when I speak the simple truth about them. e plurubus unim. spelled it wrong no doubt. but what it means is that we have to work hard as a people to be one people, because we come from different roots. we used to do that. and we were good at it. we should not be divided. how does it relate? We better accept the existing illegals or we will not be able to stop new guest workers or new illegals from coming here. You're not going to divide the ethnic mexicans among us up and get them to be against each other. they will unite. they're willing to unite as americans if we respect them, but if you push them and disrespect some of them, then they will unite as mexicans and at least in the southwest we whites will be the minority and we will be persecuted.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I said I was through. Not going to belabor the point that you refuse to grasp. Your fate is in your own hands kid. Later gator.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
if you want to nurture the tax base, then you should nurture people who produce in the economy. the illegal immigrants that are here are producers. If you were to deport them, then yes it would shock our economy and we would immediately have a smaller economy. We would be able to move american workers into those jobs. but it would take time to recover in terms of the economy's size. in the meantime the local governments would collect less tax revenue. that would be extremely negative for our people. an economy should be nurtured for the sake of prosperity for the people. not deported. I've told you that the reality here in Arizona is that many employers make no effort to hire americans at all. they do not advertise for people in english language sources, they prefer spanish language sources and use practices that result not only in systematic persecution against non-hispanic people, but hire an awful lot of illegal immigrants. this situation is ubiquitous in my state. I would like to stop this situation and I feel like I get no help at all from my fellow Americans on it. Some people fantasize that SB1070 stops employers from behaving this way. That is complete fantasy, I wish that my fellow americans would live inside the world of reality. We don't have any prominent politicians in our whole country who publicly advocate what Ronald Reagan advocated - that we accept the illegals and close the door. We have never even tried to implement that solution that he favored. I wish we would do that. and I warn you over and over again that we will not be able to kick the existing illegals out and still keep democrat support for the reform. It is a choice between accepting a permanent stream of new guest workers or accepting the existing illegals. We're far better off at asking the illegals to be citizens and let them be free and equal and then shutting the door.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
This has nothing to do with racism. This is where I could use your charged medical-lingo or other terms like "obtuse" for your incessant refusal to comprehend that fact but won't cuz I'm trying to be civil. We aren't griping about legal citizens here who are of Mexican/Hispanic origin. That the illegals happen to be largely of that nationality/ethnicity isn't our doing and has about nothing to do with our not wanting millions upon millions more of them suddenly on our citizenship rolls, other than that would put them way over the limit as compared to other applicants. There was already a deal made years ago to give illegals a path to citizenship. That is what encouraged them to keep coming, far more than the rogue employers you point to, and things only got worse and worse in this country because of it. Been there, done that, bad idea. How have you failed to understand that? How many are not working and are being paid by state subsidies to do nothing constructive while they try to wait around for another mass "amnesty" to make them citizens? How many don't really even want to be citizens because then they'd have to deal with all the red tape and taxation and other rigamarole that we do to find and keep a job? We don't have to compromise and give them citizenship in order to stop all new illegals and have no guest workers. That's a false argument. You claim Republicans want guest workers. Looks to me and others like Democrats really want more Democrat voters. Tomato, tomahto. Let's call the whole guest worker v. citizenship thing off. O-U-T, out all ya'all go right now and don't come around here no more! Guest workers, too -- get gone and stay gone!Employers -- expect to be shut down, charged, fined, and jailed for hiring any of them. Whatdya say we draft a bill that basically says that in legalese and fax it to Congress so they don't have to work so hard to get it to their floors for a vote? If they vote no, we can send it back to them. Election time is coming up. They might even be more in favor of it now than you'd care to imagine.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I've told you that the reality here in Arizona is that many employers make no effort to hire americans at all. they do not advertise for people in english language sources, they prefer spanish language sources and use practices that result not only in systematic persecution against non-hispanic people, but hire an awful lot of illegal immigrants. this situation is ubiquitous in my state. I would like to stop this situation and I feel like I get no help at all from my fellow Americans on it. I think what you need more help on is the math. Taxpaying American workers in all jobs that should be available by the deportation of illegals should increase your taxbase, not decrease it. They'd have more money for sales taxes on purchases they couldn't afford if unemployed. The community would be smaller but so would the expenses for it. You seem genuinely concerned for the effects on illegals, much more so than the burdensome effects on your fellow Americans under the current conditions, but why isn't your state doing something to at least raise taxes on those businesses that are consuming your resources there to discriminate against Arizonans?
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
well thank you for sharing those thoughts with me. We just disagree on that though.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
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#2. To: Dakmar (#1)
#3. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#2)
#4. To: Red Jones (#0)
#5. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#2)
There's at least 50 Million illegals in the United States.
#6. To: Red Jones (#0)
1 in 15 kids in U.S. has illegal immigrant parent
#7. To: mirage (#5)
#8. To: Flintlock (#6)
bitching
#9. To: Red Jones (#7)
(Edited)
#10. To: Red Jones (#8)
I wasn't complaining
#11. To: Flintlock (#6)
#12. To: Flintlock (#10)
#13. To: Red Jones (#11)
(Edited)
where I live if they kicked out all the illegals, then our tax base would be negatively affected. as you know our economy is in such bad shape that it is not responsible to damage the tax base.
#14. To: Red Jones (#12)
(Edited)
These ethnic mexicans who were born here will not tolerate seeing the illegals sent home.
#15. To: Red Jones (#12)
These ethnic mexicans who were born here will not tolerate seeing the illegals sent home.
#16. To: GreyLmist (#13)
Are you joking?
#17. To: GreyLmist (#14)
They're not dictators here.
#18. To: mirage (#15)
#19. To: mirage (#15)
Cesar Chavez
#20. To: Red Jones (#18)
(Edited)
#21. To: mirage (#20)
#22. To: Red Jones (#21)
(Edited)
#23. To: SonOfLiberty (#22)
Calling people "idiot" and "stupid" to try and bolster your point doesn't speak well of your debating skills.
#24. To: Red Jones (#23)
(Edited)
#25. To: Red Jones (#21)
Mexican americans and Cesar Chavez are exactly like me.
#26. To: SonOfLiberty (#24)
#27. To: Red Jones (#17)
What I'm telling you is that the hard-line on illegals where we say 'kick them all out' is extremely divisive and makes any solution to illegal immigrant problem impossible.
#28. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#25)
#29. To: Red Jones (#26)
#30. To: GreyLmist (#27)
That is the solution which should penalize them as well with never being able to apply for citizenship here.
#31. To: Red Jones (#30)
I would rather compromise and let the existing illegals stay and then stop all new illegals as well as not have guest workers. The democrats will go along with that solution.
I am becoming convinced that one of the reasons we can't find a solution is because of intractable opinions motivated by racism.
. It is today's republicans who will not allow that solution.
#32. To: SonOfLiberty (#29)
I honestly don't care about Chavez or your debate about him with mirage. What I'm telling you is that running around screaming "mental illness!" "stupid!" and "idiot!" during a discussion will get you put on the bozo-filter by most people here in short order.
#33. To: Red Jones (#32)
(Edited)
#34. To: Red Jones (#16)
(Edited)
#35. To: SonOfLiberty (#33)
#36. To: Red Jones (#35)
#37. To: GreyLmist (#34)
#38. To: Red Jones (#30)
(Edited)
#39. To: Red Jones (#37)
(Edited)
if you want to nurture the tax base, then you should nurture people who produce in the economy. the illegal immigrants that are here are producers. If you were to deport them, then yes it would shock our economy and we would immediately have a smaller economy. We would be able to move american workers into those jobs. but it would take time to recover in terms of the economy's size. in the meantime the local governments would collect less tax revenue. that would be extremely negative for our people. an economy should be nurtured for the sake of prosperity for the people. not deported.
#40. To: SonOfLiberty (#36)
Later gator.
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