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Title: How do Men and Women Ever Get Married?
Source: Unclebob's Treehouse
URL Source: [None]
Published: Aug 12, 2010
Author: Bob Wallace
Post Date: 2010-08-12 10:47:22 by Turtle
Keywords: None
Views: 5306
Comments: 133

About a month ago (as I write this) I read a comment, I believe by a man, who observed that he was astonished than men and women ever got together.

That jogged my memory about a time in college. I lived in a studio apartment attached to a two-story house with 11 or 12 girls in it. I lived there for a year and a half, so I had plenty of time to observe these women, all of whom were about 20 years old, give or take a few years.

I noticed something interesting: the few girls who were popular always talked to guys and showed they were interested in them. The girls who were not popular sat there like bumps on logs.

One of the log-bumps had one date in that year-and-a-half, and when he called for a second date she turned him down.

Another log-bump had no dates, but one guy did spend the night, since I heard them through my wall. He left in the morning and never came back.

One of the popular girls, one Thursday night I was sitting in her room, just passing the time. For some reason, and to this day I do not know why, I asked her how many guys had asked her out for the weekend.

“Seven,” she told me. I was speechless for a few seconds, then I asked her which one she was going out with. She told me the one she liked the best.

I thought, here is a friendly woman who did like guys, talked to them and was interested in what they had to say. And she had seven guys ask her out.

The other two girls – one date in a year-and-a-half for one, no dates for the other, just some guy who spend the night and never came back. And they never showed any friendliness toward guys, just the attitude they were supposed to sit there saying nothing and guys were supposed to approach them.

I sat in my classes, always in the back row, watching students. I never saw anyone talk to anyone else in any way that showed any kind of romantic interest. Not once did I see a girl smile at a guy. I remember thinking, how do these people think they are going to meet someone and get married?

Occasionally a guy would talk briefly to a girl, but she never responded with more than a few words.

One woman I know, who was very popular with guys, told me she had been asked by the other girls why she was so popular. She told me she couldn’t believe the question.

“All you have to do is be friendly and talk to them,” she told them. Apparently this simple concept had never occurred to any of them.

Probably the strangest thing about this time in college is that there were many more women than men, so you’d think the women would be competing for the men. I never saw it. What I saw, over and over, were girls by themselves on Friday and Saturday nights.

How did I know they were alone? Because I delivered pizzas for a year-and-a-half, including to the girls’ dorms, and was just amazed that all of them were there by themselves. Not hundreds. Thousands.

I suppose if I was to have asked them why they were alone, they might have responded, “There are no guys here,” an odd response at a university with about 9,000 guys.

What they really meant was, “There are no guys here I’d be interested in,” again an odd response with 9,000 available guys. Maybe they thought they’d just look at a guy and know he was the one – love at first sight? Price Charming, which means they thought they were princesses?

Since men usually approach women, women have to show themselves to be approachable. That’s what “friendly and smiling and interested” means. Again, in college, in classes, I never saw it.

I never saw it at parties, either. Just the log-bumps. Mostly I saw the log-bumps at nightclubs, too.

Oddly, I have noticed this attitude only among American women. With non-American women I have never seen it.

It’s one of the reasons white guys go out with Asian women (who are a lot friendlier and act more interested than almost all white American women), and of course many white women get hysterical about this, even though they themselves would not go out with this particular guy. It’s as if they’re saying, “Maybe I don’t want him, but no one else should, either.” This is some kind of weird envy or jealousy that I do not understand.

I know women who are in their 40s and 50s who are unmarried and childless, and are hostile toward men because of it. I wonder if it has never occurred to them they are in some way responsible for their predicament? Because they forgot how to smile?

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#68. To: abraxas (#67)

That was your blind friend. He was talking about you stealing his cane.

hehehehehehehehe

Cynicom  posted on  2010-08-13   14:34:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: abraxas (#67)

He was talking about you stealing his cane.

Not to mention his good and faithful seeing-eye dog, the one he had had for years.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-08-13   14:35:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: James Deffenbach (#69)

Not to mention his good and faithful seeing-eye dog, the one he had had for years.

This is why folks should NEVER use pugs as service dogs.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-08-13   14:39:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: abraxas (#49) (Edited)

An early 40's man is more discriminating than the 20 year old man.

This is true. When I was 20, any decent looking woman who flirted with me had a good chance of catching my eye. Now that I'm in my early 40's, I tend to be much more picky.

Not that it matters a lick of course, being all in the "hypothetical zone" now.

"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2010-08-13   14:40:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: purplerose (#57)

After we had our meal, the waitress came by and asked who was going to treat for dinner? When my date said he was buying, the waitress replied to me in this sarcastic manner, "Oh my...how nice of him to treat you." And then this waitress gave me this really snotty smirk.

That would have killed her tip had I been the guy.

Lod  posted on  2010-08-13   14:41:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Lod (#72)

That would have killed her tip had I been the guy.

Same. Except that I would have made a point of actually tipping her...2 red cents.

If you don't tip, sometimes the staff thinks you forgot, because sometimes people do. When you tip 2 red cents, it lets them know you remembered and that you dislike their service/attitude.

"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2010-08-13   14:42:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Lod (#72)

That would have killed her tip had I been the guy.

Skinflint, tightwad, cheapo, now i know how you and the Hunts became billionaires. hehehehehehe

Cynicom  posted on  2010-08-13   14:43:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: SonOfLiberty (#73)

If you don't tip, sometimes the staff thinks you forgot, because sometimes people do. When you tip 2 red cents, it lets them know you remembered and that you dislike their service/attitude.

Good point.

Don't servers today realize that their income is directly dependent on their attentiveness, service, and attitude?

The best kitchen in the world cannot overcome lousy servers.

Lod  posted on  2010-08-13   14:47:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Cynicom (#74)

Cyni -

Had I your coin, I'd just burn mine. ;-)

Lod  posted on  2010-08-13   14:58:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Lod (#76)

Had I your coin, I'd just burn mine. ;-)

Ha.

In my shoes you would have a nervous breakdown and work in the soup kitchen for your supper.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-08-13   15:07:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: purplerose (#57)

And because of your way of thinking this way, it is why women like myself remain single because we refuse to marry a man who does not respect us (at least me for that matter).

That's the thing about respect. It has to be earned, not given just because of someones gender. If you're respectable, then you'll get respect. And I'm not saying that you're not respectable.

None if this is directed at you or any other woman here. It's directed at our sick society in general. You can say these things about men in general and chances are I'll agree with you. But I don't care about men, so why would I rant about them?

None of this is any good. None of it.

But I'm not going to give up because I know there are gentlemen out there that appreciate being seen with a woman who dresses like a woman and acts like one!

You're damn right there are. The problem is finding a woman like that.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

I've listened to preachers I've listened to fools I've watched all the dropouts Who make their own rules One person conditioned to rule and control The media sells it and you live the role ~Ozzy Osbourne: Crazy Train

PSUSA  posted on  2010-08-13   15:23:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: PSUSA, purplerose, 4 (#78)

A search for the saying 'all the good men are either married or gay' returned almost 1.5T, that's a T, results.

Amazing.

Lod  posted on  2010-08-13   15:57:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Turtle (#0)

And they never showed any friendliness toward guys, just the attitude they were supposed to sit there saying nothing and guys were supposed to approach them.

And thus make themselves appear unapproachable. It's endemic with Irishwomen. lol

I sat in my classes, always in the back row, watching students. I never saw anyone talk to anyone else in any way that showed any kind of romantic interest. Not once did I see a girl smile at a guy. I remember thinking, how do these people think they are going to meet someone and get married?

Occasionally a guy would talk briefly to a girl, but she never responded with more than a few words.

Typical inapproachability.

Heat wave... forest fires... Russia...... yet no sign of JohnA! :-P

irishthatcherite  posted on  2010-08-13   16:22:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: PSUSA (#6)

But their mistake is thinking that I want them

They seem to think that every possible interaction is an attempt to get into their pants.

That's something that occurred to me too, us men are told by modern social convention not to make our interest in any given woman "obvious", that she'll see you coming a mile off, and that is somehow a bad thing.. but, I was tying myself in knots a while ago trying to figure out how to talk to a woman w/o making my interest "obvious".... but I think your comment turns that on it's head - it's not that a man can appear "obvious", it's that many women assume that a man trying to have a conversation with her is 'trying it on'.

Heat wave... forest fires... Russia...... yet no sign of JohnA! :-P

irishthatcherite  posted on  2010-08-13   16:28:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Turtle, all (#0)

And a note on married life:

When Love Fades...

Last night a married man of many years was sitting on the sofa watching TV when he heard his wife's voice from the kitchen.

"What would you like for dinner my Love? Chicken, beef or lamb?"

He said, "Thank you, I'll have chicken."

She replied "You're having soup, asshole. I was talking to the cat!"

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-08-13   16:38:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: abraxas (#82)

That's not exactly a joke. Last year, I came in from work to the most wonderful cooking smells coming from the kitchen. It turned out to be chicken and rice simmering in a huge pot.

I cracked the lid and started to spoon up a plateful when she said "Hey! I'm cooking that for the dog. There's cold cuts in the fridge for you to make a sandwich..."

Samuel Gray  posted on  2010-08-13   16:42:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: irishthatcherite (#81)

That's something that occurred to me too, us men are told by modern social convention not to make our interest in any given woman "obvious", that she'll see you coming a mile off, and that is somehow a bad thing.. but, I was tying myself in knots a while ago trying to figure out how to talk to a woman w/o making my interest "obvious".... but I think your comment turns that on it's head - it's not that a man can appear "obvious", it's that many women assume that a man trying to have a conversation with her is 'trying it on'.

Confucius say; The harder man tries, the less he gets.

That came to me naturally and never failed.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-08-13   16:43:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: irishthatcherite, 4 (#81)

Both sexes should completely try it on.

If you are attracted to someone, let them know it (without drooling all over yourself, or pitching a tent, if you're a guy.)

People are flattered, and interested, to be noticed.

Lod  posted on  2010-08-13   16:45:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Samuel Gray (#83)

"Hey! I'm cooking that for the dog. There's cold cuts in the fridge for you to make a sandwich..."

lol.......I can relate, I make chicken and rice for my dog everyday since she's on a special kidney diet. I figure at 12 years old, the least I can do is make some food that she gets excited about.

But, I would let anybody have a little chicken and rice too. : )

I don't know why you were with such an evil woman Samuel.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-08-13   16:48:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Lod (#85)

If you are attracted to someone, let them know it (without drooling all over yourself, or pitching a tent, if you're a guy.)

My motto in life: A closed mouth doesn't get fed. : )

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-08-13   16:49:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: abraxas (#86) (Edited)

Because I'm a really bad "chooser", as it turns out.

My dog doesn't have a medical reason, he's just picky and rather than spend 40 bucks a bag for Science Diet, and have him turn his nose up at it, I buy bulk rice, oats, various veggies and discounted cuts of meat, liver, chicken parts, etc, and still come out ahead on feeding him. The only downside is, he eats about 5 lb a day.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2010-08-13   16:50:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Samuel Gray (#88) (Edited)

5 lbs a day? What kind of dog is this?

My little greyhound eats about four cups. I'd guess that around 2 1/2 lbs and she's around 70 lbs.

ps: don't forget to include an egg each day and grind up the dried shell so that your dog gets the calcium carbonate that they need. : )

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-08-13   16:57:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Jethro Tull (#84) (Edited)

Confucius say; The harder man tries, the less he gets.

That came to me naturally and never failed.

Oh that's something I've learned too (the hard way)... being overly eager does not work any better than being slightly coy. lol

Heat wave... forest fires... Russia...... yet no sign of JohnA! :-P

irishthatcherite  posted on  2010-08-13   17:02:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Lod (#85)

Both sexes should completely try it on.

If you are attracted to someone, let them know it (without drooling all over yourself, or pitching a tent, if you're a guy.)

People are flattered, and interested, to be noticed.

Yes, why should there be something wrong with showing interest? Temper it with a slight coyness of course, but other than that, no harm, I think you are right about a boner being considered a compliment. lol And a sincere compliment at that. ;)

Heat wave... forest fires... Russia...... yet no sign of JohnA! :-P

irishthatcherite  posted on  2010-08-13   17:05:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: irishthatcherite (#90)

being overly eager does not work any better than being slight coy. lol

Just BE YOURSELF I say. : ) Of course, nobody is soliciting my sound advice.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-08-13   17:05:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: abraxas (#92)

Just BE YOURSELF I say. : ) Of course, nobody is soliciting my sound advice.

That too. lol Usually I think the real me is a bit hard for them to take... lol

Heat wave... forest fires... Russia...... yet no sign of JohnA! :-P

irishthatcherite  posted on  2010-08-13   17:07:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: abraxas (#89)

Great Pyrenees/Mastiff or St. Bernard cross. Currently about 115 lb, but he's been heavier.

I throw the eggs in the rice while it's hot so they cook. Don't think I've fed him the shells in a while, not that he'd ever pause long enough to discern what he was wolfing down...

Samuel Gray  posted on  2010-08-13   17:14:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: irishthatcherite, abraxas, 4 (#93)

Like a girl told me long ago, "If we click, we click, if we don't we don't."

I did my level best to insure things clicked.

Lod  posted on  2010-08-13   17:19:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: irishthatcherite (#93)

You must have faith. Some of us are not for the faint of heart or the thin skinned. : )

Let them find a meek mate. There is no short supply of the meek.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-08-13   17:20:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Samuel Gray (#94)

That's a big dog. Please grind up the shells and throw them in as his diet is not sufficient in calcium carbonate without the shells or a supplement. : )

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-08-13   17:22:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Lod (#95)

Like a girl told me long ago, "If we click, we click, if we don't we don't."

I suppose it comes down to that. lol

Heat wave... forest fires... Russia...... yet no sign of JohnA! :-P

irishthatcherite  posted on  2010-08-13   17:22:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: abraxas (#96)

You must have faith. Some of us are not for the faint of heart or the thin skinned. : )

Let them find a meek mate. There is no short supply of the meek.

Someone who knows what it means to be human I suppose. lol

Heat wave... forest fires... Russia...... yet no sign of JohnA! :-P

irishthatcherite  posted on  2010-08-13   17:23:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: irishthatcherite (#99)

Someone who knows what it means to be human I suppose. lol

As you are should be more than enough. Don't let anybody tell you that you need to be less.

I've been told that I'm too smart for crying out loud. It's intimidating. (eyes rolling) Well, I'm not dumbing down for anybody.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-08-13   17:26:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: abraxas (#100)

As you are should be more than enough. Don't let anybody tell you that you need to be less.

I'm most worried about the ones who expect you to be more. lol

I've been told that I'm too smart for crying out loud. It's intimidating. (eyes rolling) Well, I'm not dumbing down for anybody.

It's a funny one that - a surplus of a good point is considered a turn-off. I would imagine it's either an excuse (they are good at inventing excuses) ie an excuse that sounds like a compliment, or they are insecure about it.

Heat wave... forest fires... Russia...... yet no sign of JohnA! :-P

irishthatcherite  posted on  2010-08-13   17:42:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: irishthatcherite (#101) (Edited)

I'm most worried about the ones who expect you to be more. lol

Expectations are a tricky thing too. The root of all disappointment. : )

Could just be an excuse. There is no shortage of those.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-08-13   17:47:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: abraxas (#102)

Expectations are a tricking thing too. The root of all disappointment. : )

Those kind are serial offenders too - takes them years and years to figure out why they are getting no where. lol

Heat wave... forest fires... Russia...... yet no sign of JohnA! :-P

irishthatcherite  posted on  2010-08-13   17:50:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: abraxas (#100)

Too smart?

That's just stupid.

A mental, as well as a physical, turn-on is perfect.

It doesn't get any better than that.

Lod  posted on  2010-08-13   17:55:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: irishthatcherite (#81)

but I think your comment turns that on it's head - it's not that a man can appear "obvious", it's that many women assume that a man trying to have a conversation with her is 'trying it on'.

Yep. And like you, I was always wondering WTF was going on with everything. I ain't no pretty boy, but I'm not repulsive either. So it had nothing to do with how I looked or what I said, or how I said it, because there was never an ulterior motive in talking to them.

Then I figured it out.

And the exceptions to that rule I didn't want to mess with either because I was so disgusted with the whole thing. I got over it but it wasn't easy.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

I've listened to preachers I've listened to fools I've watched all the dropouts Who make their own rules One person conditioned to rule and control The media sells it and you live the role ~Ozzy Osbourne: Crazy Train

PSUSA  posted on  2010-08-13   18:09:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: Lod (#79)

A search for the saying 'all the good men are either married or gay' returned almost 1.5T, that's a T, results.

Amazing.

Wow.

It looks like they are trying to find an excuse of why men don't want to bother with them. The problem is internal, not external, imo.

If they would put the effort into just being nice that they put into buying and putting on their warpaint and getting botox and their boobs enlarged to ridiculous and sometimes comical proportions, they might see a difference.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

I've listened to preachers I've listened to fools I've watched all the dropouts Who make their own rules One person conditioned to rule and control The media sells it and you live the role ~Ozzy Osbourne: Crazy Train

PSUSA  posted on  2010-08-13   18:23:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: PSUSA (#105)

Yep. And like you, I was always wondering WTF was going on with everything. I ain't no pretty boy, but I'm not repulsive either. So it had nothing to do with how I looked or what I said, or how I said it, because there was never an ulterior motive in talking to them.

Then I figured it out.

And the exceptions to that rule I didn't want to mess with either because I was so disgusted with the whole thing. I got over it but it wasn't easy.

Hehe.. it can get to a point where you're worried because you idly glance around a room and happen to catch a girl's eye. lol "He randomly caught my eye.. he must be trying it on." lol

Heat wave... forest fires... Russia...... yet no sign of JohnA! :-P

irishthatcherite  posted on  2010-08-13   18:36:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: X-15, christine, Jethro_Tull, HAPPY2BME-4UM, PSUSA, Lod, Turtle, Cynicom, purplerose (#0)

Today is our 33rd wedding anniversary and I'm too...something....(happy? yeah, that's it) to get involved in this chat.

It's ironic that a happily married man has so little to live for after 33 years....

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2010-08-13   18:42:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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