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Title: God did not create the universe, says Hawking
Source:
Reuters
URL Source: [None]
Published: Sep 2, 2010
Author: Reuters
Post Date: 2010-09-02 21:17:00 by Flintlock
Keywords: ODIN!!!, Hey-Sus, AL-LA, Big Guy On A Throne With A Bea
Views: 8190
Comments: 141
LONDON (Reuters) – God did not create the universe and the "Big Bang" was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics, the eminent British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book. In "The Grand Design," co-authored with U.S. physicist Leonard Mlodinow, Hawking says a new series of theories made a creator of the universe redundant, according to the Times newspaper which published extracts on Thursday. "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes. "It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going." Hawking, 68, who won global recognition with his 1988 book "A Brief History of Time," an account of the origins of the universe, is renowned for his work on black holes, cosmology and quantum gravity. Since 1974, the scientist has worked on marrying the two cornerstones of modern physics -- Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, which concerns gravity and large-scale phenomena, and quantum theory, which covers subatomic particles. His latest comments suggest he has broken away from previous views he has expressed on religion. Previously, he wrote that the laws of physics meant it was simply not necessary to believe that God had intervened in the Big Bang. He wrote in A Brief History ... "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God." In his latest book, he said the 1992 discovery of a planet orbiting another star other than the Sun helped deconstruct the view of the father of physics Isaac Newton that the universe could not have arisen out of chaos but was created by God. "That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions -- the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass, far less remarkable, and far less compelling evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes. Hawking, who is only able to speak through a computer-generated voice synthesizer, has a neuro muscular dystrophy that has progressed over the years and left him almost completely paralyzed. He began suffering the disease in his early 20s but went on to establish himself as one of the world's leading scientific authorities, and has also made guest appearances in "Star Trek" and the cartoons "Futurama" and "The Simpsons." Last year he announced he was stepping down as Cambridge University's Lucasian Professor of Mathematics, a position once held by Newton and one he had held since 1979. "The Grand Design" is due to go on sale next week. (Editing by Steve Addison)
Poster Comment: But, But, BUT!!! What about Hey-Sus?
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#101. To: Fred Mertz (#100)
you're welcome, Fred. bygones. ;)
seriously, that was gross. realistic though.
On what scale through? Their own? Heh. My original question stands. For Teraman I'm 140+. On a modern scale I'm ~188 at last testing, several years ago without experience. Where is Hawking? Often wondered that. Tesla was clearly more intelligent than anybody here, I do wonder where he'd fall?
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
hey baldy!
#102. To: HOUNDDAWG (#84)
Boy, yew shore gotta purty mouth!"
#103. To: abraxas (#98)
(Edited)
#104. To: Fred Mertz (#100)
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
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#105. To: abraxas (#98)
I think Einstein's intellect out performs Hawking's. What Einstein considered his biggest blunder was actually discovered to be on target some 50 years after he died. Tesla deserves a 2 season, weekly 1-hour show on the Discovery channel on his exploits. And while Einstein, Hawking and Newton did pure theory, Tesla actually built stuff he theorized about.
They give Newton a 190 and Da Vinci a 185 and Einstein a 160.
Of course, my personal favorite, Tesla, is omitted again.
#106. To: christine (#102)
Before that I couldn't picture a scenario where I'd have been thrilled to see someone drilled with a broadhead. And, Burt & Co. got away with killing the mutants and they didn't have to explain it to the local sheriff! A double victory!
seriously, that was gross. realistic though.
#107. To: Pinguinite (#5)
Correct. However, Hawking does leave an interesting theological question open. If the Universe decided to spontaneously create itself, could not the concept of God simply be expanded to encompass all? The universe itself is the Grand Creator which would explain a great many other religions.
a grand omnipotent creator isn't necessarily required to explain the existence of the universe and all that's in it
Somewhere, Jimmy Carter is laughing and saying, "Finally! I won't be the worst President ever!"
#108. To: Pinguinite, abraxas (#88)
I like your answers, thank you.
Why would an obviously faked video of a plane hitting the WTC be aired on International news? Why wouldn't they just use a real video of the plane?
#109. To: Fred Mertz (#100)
Welcome back.
Why would an obviously faked video of a plane hitting the WTC be aired on International news? Why wouldn't they just use a real video of the plane?
#110. To: Flintlock (#0)
All Christians know that God hates cripples. God makes people cripple to punish them for their sins. The smart ones repent and will be cured by God. The stupid ones will stay cripple. And the really really retarded ones end up like Steven Hawking. No matter how much proof is provided for God's might, he keeps saying very stupid things. "Who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?" (Exodus 4:11)
#111. To: Max (#110)
Are you kidding?
All Christians know that God hates cripples. God makes people cripple to punish them for their sins.
Why would an obviously faked video of a plane hitting the WTC be aired on International news? Why wouldn't they just use a real video of the plane?
#112. To: Max (#110)
I think some reincarnation faiths do suggest such is "punishment" of sorts for sins in a past life.
God makes people cripple to punish them for their sins.
#113. To: Flintlock (#0)
This makes no sense. How can there be a law of gravity before creation when there was no matter or space for the matter to warp? Gravity is a warping of space caused by matter. scienceworld.wolfram.com/...cs/GeneralRelativity.html I don't know what this person is thinking. .
"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes.
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I've listened to preachers I've listened to fools I've watched all the dropouts Who make their own rules One person conditioned to rule and control The media sells it and you live the role ~Ozzy Osbourne: Crazy Train
#114. To: wudidiz (#111)
Thank you. Good to see you again too.
#115. To: A K A Stone (#56)
If you can "prove a negative" and "quite easily," prove to us that you don't kick your dog, beat your wife and children and that you are not a transvestite hooker. Not saying you are any of those things but I would like to see how you can "prove" that you are not. And just saying you're not or other people saying you're not is not proof.
Yes you can. Quite easily.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#116. To: PSUSA (#113)
. He (Hawking) doesn't either.
I don't know what this person is thinking.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#117. To: James Deffenbach (#116)
Either that or the article is too simplistic to relay what it is that he really said. Or it's intentional spin. Or maybe both. Anyone someone tells me that 2+2=234,323,765. he has some explaining to do. .
He (Hawking) doesn't either.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
I've listened to preachers I've listened to fools I've watched all the dropouts Who make their own rules One person conditioned to rule and control The media sells it and you live the role ~Ozzy Osbourne: Crazy Train
#118. To: wudidiz (#55)
another possibility is that the universe IS 'god', etc. just another part of the Singularity.
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#119. To: gengis gandhi (#118)
True.
Why would an obviously faked video of a plane hitting the WTC be aired on International news? Why wouldn't they just use a real video of the plane?
#120. To: gengis gandhi (#118) (Edited)
Matter and energy have always existed. Matter is transformable into energy and vice versa. All things visible and invisible are either matter or energy or both. Matter creates space and gravity and time. Matter and energy moving in space creates time. The dual form of matter and energy is god, the creator of the universe. Matter is scientifically measureable and testable, unlike yahweh.
another possibility is that the universe IS 'god', etc
#121. To: Pinguinite, all (#88)
The best TV show I've seen that tackled the whole issue (and ironically, Hawking wasn't in it if I recall) was an episode of the Science Channel series "Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman" in the episode "Is There A Creator?", a good case is made for and against. The best case FOR is from the side of particle physics, with one theoretician who surfs in his free time evoking an elegant mathematical model that unites gravity with the other fundamental forces of the physical world in a way that predicts other particles like the Higgs boson that can be verified by experiments like the LHC. If I recall correctly (and here I'm not sure I do -- I'll have to watch the show again when I can), this model resembled large scale patterns in the cosmos. The conclusion here being that we may be like sprites in a computer simulation. Again I can't remember enough to flesh it out clearly, but this is definitely worth watching. On the "against" side is a research biologist, who manages to stimulate a part of the brain to evoke the presence or awareness of spirit beings. The notion that this developed in the brain order to suppress anxiety about one's eventual death and dissolution if there is the belief that they will live on as part of a greater whole. In all a fascinating show. Not for the dogmatically faint of heart or whose beliefs are set in stone (so to speak).
Democrats don't mind war as long as they can have big government. Republicans don't mind big government as long as they can have war.
#122. To: PnbC (#121)
is the show anywhere online? i'd like to see it.
#123. To: PnbC (#121)
I found it here~
#124. To: christine (#122)
Just did a YouTube search.
Democrats don't mind war as long as they can have big government. Republicans don't mind big government as long as they can have war.
#125. To: christine (#123)
The video quality at the YouTube page is better, though it is in 5 parts.
Democrats don't mind war as long as they can have big government. Republicans don't mind big government as long as they can have war.
#126. To: gengis gandhi (#118)
Asteroid Discovery From 1980 - 2010 Excerpt from the pulldown notes: At the beginning of 2010 a new discovery pattern becomes evident, with discovery zones in a line perpendicular to the Sun-Earth vector.
another possibility is that the universe IS 'god'
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#127. To: GreyLmist (#126)
What if it is discovered that there is a multiverse? Then there would be something greater than god? Or perhaps god is a trans-dimensional entity beyond the universe that we are familiar with. If so, any written scripture would be woefully inadequate to our complete understanding.
another possibility is that the universe IS 'god'
Democrats don't mind war as long as they can have big government. Republicans don't mind big government as long as they can have war.
#128. To: Pinguinite (#105)
I agree completely, Pinguinite. : ) Tesla also did some astounding theoretical work, especially in regards to the concept of the electric universe and the notion that all the "empty space" really is much more than nothing. Of course, his theories contradict relativity and also make gravity of lesser import than most theories give to it. Tesla impacts our lives everyday, yet so few even know who he is. Sigh.
Tesla deserves a 2 season, weekly 1-hour show on the Discovery channel on his exploits. And while Einstein, Hawking and Newton did pure theory, Tesla actually built stuff he theorized about.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#129. To: PnbC (#125)
I have a real interest in this kind of stuff. Thanks.
#130. To: PnbC (#127)
Or perhaps god is a trans-dimensional entity beyond the universe that we are familiar with. If so, any written scripture would be woefully inadequate to our complete understanding. Yes, like trans-dimensional. There are lots of people who can speak on this better than me and have but I'll try to summarize. God would have to exist outside of our concept of cause and effect or nothing would have ever gotten started -- not the smallest atom or laws of physics or a Grand Design.
What if it is discovered that there is a multiverse? Then there would be something greater than god?
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#131. To: Flintlock (#0)
Hee hee hee! Maybe we're dealing with some off-brand definition of "universe" here. What's this "law such as gravity" of which he's babbling? Is it part of the universe? If so, it doesn't exist without the universe, the self-creation of which it supposedly enables. If not, then there's something outside the "universe" -- a contradiction in terms. "Law such as gravity?" Sorry, no patience here with fuzzy talk, even if spoken with Dr. Sbaitso's voice. Don't care if it is hyper-super-mega-genius Hawking. That emperor ain't got a stitch on his ass.
"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing."
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Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. -- H. L. Mencken
#132. To: Flintlock (#0) (Edited)
God. I need a definition. God of the Bible, the Diest God, what is he talking about exactly? The two universal languages are mathematics and music, perhaps "God" is hidden in these languages, "English" is so obtuse, and open to interpretation, I think that it is beyond "it" to offer an exact explanation.
#133. To: Flintlock (#0)
Hawking is the Zsa Zsa Gabor of popular science: he's famous for being famous, nobody reads his books. ((ducks to avoid incoming artillery))
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"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#134. To: X-15 (#133)
I read his "A Brief History of Time" book. If only because it has a really cool title.
nobody reads his books.
#135. To: James Deffenbach (#115)
I'll do something more simple for you. Someone says I was robbing Burger King last night an 10pm. I can prove that it is not true because I was videotaped checking out at walmart at 10pm.
#136. To: A K A Stone (#135)
Oh, but you seem to misunderstand. That is not proving a negative but a positive. And it doesn't touch what I "accused" you of--and no, I don't think you are guilty of any of that but you can't prove you are not. For instance, and again this is just an example, I accuse you of beating your wife. Can you prove you never have? Not without a video camera recording every interaction you have ever had with her. And even if you did I could come back with something like "What about all those times you turned it off before you beat her?" Or I could say that you kick your dog. Can you prove you don't? No. That is what I meant by no one can prove a negative. At least I have never heard of anyone doing so and have yet to see an example of it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#137. To: Pinguinite (#134)
If only because it has a really cool title. Expatriates Don't Count. ;-)
I read his "A Brief History of Time" book.
__________________________________________________________
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#138. To: X-15 (#137)
Ah, but I read it when I was still in the states. So there!
Expatriates Don't Count.
#139. To: Flintlock (#0)
If this earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings, I would suggest conditions could be better. However, many evolutionists have agreed that evolution could not have succeeded without intelligent design. In my opinion, nature is far more intelligent than the biblical account of a bi- polar God, and the Universe is unfolding as it should.
"That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions -- the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass, far less remarkable, and far less compelling evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes.
#140. To: Pinguinite (#138)
Doh!! Ya got me. Stephen Hawking thanks you for your patronage.
__________________________________________________________
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#141. To: angK (#139)
However, many evolutionists have agreed that evolution could not have succeeded without intelligent design. In my opinion, nature is far more intelligent than the biblical account of a bi- polar God, and the Universe is unfolding as it should. You're 100% right. This was taken from the teachings of Zarathushtra. The "eco" stuff is a modern twist but still, I like it. If this earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings, I would suggest conditions could be better.
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
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