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Title: God did not create the universe, says Hawking
Source:
Reuters
URL Source: [None]
Published: Sep 2, 2010
Author: Reuters
Post Date: 2010-09-02 21:17:00 by Flintlock
Keywords: ODIN!!!, Hey-Sus, AL-LA, Big Guy On A Throne With A Bea
Views: 8000
Comments: 141
LONDON (Reuters) – God did not create the universe and the "Big Bang" was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics, the eminent British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book. In "The Grand Design," co-authored with U.S. physicist Leonard Mlodinow, Hawking says a new series of theories made a creator of the universe redundant, according to the Times newspaper which published extracts on Thursday. "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes. "It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going." Hawking, 68, who won global recognition with his 1988 book "A Brief History of Time," an account of the origins of the universe, is renowned for his work on black holes, cosmology and quantum gravity. Since 1974, the scientist has worked on marrying the two cornerstones of modern physics -- Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, which concerns gravity and large-scale phenomena, and quantum theory, which covers subatomic particles. His latest comments suggest he has broken away from previous views he has expressed on religion. Previously, he wrote that the laws of physics meant it was simply not necessary to believe that God had intervened in the Big Bang. He wrote in A Brief History ... "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God." In his latest book, he said the 1992 discovery of a planet orbiting another star other than the Sun helped deconstruct the view of the father of physics Isaac Newton that the universe could not have arisen out of chaos but was created by God. "That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions -- the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass, far less remarkable, and far less compelling evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes. Hawking, who is only able to speak through a computer-generated voice synthesizer, has a neuro muscular dystrophy that has progressed over the years and left him almost completely paralyzed. He began suffering the disease in his early 20s but went on to establish himself as one of the world's leading scientific authorities, and has also made guest appearances in "Star Trek" and the cartoons "Futurama" and "The Simpsons." Last year he announced he was stepping down as Cambridge University's Lucasian Professor of Mathematics, a position once held by Newton and one he had held since 1979. "The Grand Design" is due to go on sale next week. (Editing by Steve Addison)
Poster Comment: But, But, BUT!!! What about Hey-Sus?
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#29. To: A K A Stone (#23)
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I'm a super genius.
I believe the Bible.
You are uniquely pictured on the left, Beelzebub...
#30. To: abraxas (#18)
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
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#31. To: A K A Stone, Samuel Gray (#25)
Stone you goof. You want traffic? You want debate? SG would kick ass and take names. You goaded me into "debating" the subhumans on Flame and I accepted. You have a forum of hollow posters. I'm now asking you to put SG on full privilege and stand back. That's the least you can do.
You still pissed I wont let you join up. Piss off cockroach.
#32. To: A K A Stone, Pinguinite (#23)
Believe this little quote: "Whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Mathew, v, 22. Or, "If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise." Corinthians, iii, 18.
The Bible says that those who don't believe in God are fools. I believe the Bible.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#33. To: Samuel Gay (#28)
I told you from the beginning you are not welcome.
#34. To: A K A Stone (#22)
If you didn't exist the country would be a better place.
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
#35. To: A K A Stone (#33)
LOL. You sad, strange little man. If I wanted to bother with my email archive, I could expose you for the liar you really are.
#36. To: A K A Stone (#33)
You're afraid.
I told you from the beginning you are not welcome.
#37. To: Jethro Tull (#31)
To be honest I don't pay much attention to Sam Gray. He just sent me an email one day wanting to join. He had a bunch of strange requests. He wasn't serious. No one is stopping him from signing up. But I'm not going to welcome someone who doesn't care for me.
#38. To: A K A Stone, Samuel Gray (#33)
Well, of course he isn't ... he would spit you out of your own website in a heartbeat.
I told you [Samuel Gray] from the beginning you are not welcome [LibertysFlame].
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#39. To: Pinguinite (#20)
I think it fits him perfectly. Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Now this Hawkings guy would have you believe that he is brilliant and knows everything worth knowing. But you can take all his knowledge and add it to that of the rest of mankind and it would not equal that of the Creator. His thoughts are far above ours, even those of the man who said God wasn't necessary.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#40. To: A K A Stone (#37)
lol.......are you claiming all of your posters "care" for you. If so, you are kidding yourself. What does it matter anyway? Why are you being so thin skinned?
But I'm not going to welcome someone who doesn't care for me.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#41. To: abraxas (#32)
Indeed. Excellent post, abraxas.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#42. To: A K A Stone, Mudboy_Slim (#37)
Did you welcome Mudboy_Slim? And... as a just a point of curiousity... how does Mud care for you?
But I'm not going to welcome someone who doesn't care for me.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#43. To: Jethro Tull, AKA Stone (#36)
What's that smell? Did somebody pee his pants? lol
You're afraid.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#44. To: abraxas (#40)
Anyone can come and sign up and post. That doesn't mean I welcome it. There are about 5 over there I am real tempted to give the boot.
#45. To: A K A Stone (#37)
People here don't care for you, yet you have full privileges. Fredo Mertz has called you both an asshole and an idiot. What's that about? SG doesn't need to cuss and I'm sure he wouldn't. He'd tear your heart out in public and I sense you fear that.
But I'm not going to welcome someone who doesn't care for me.
#46. To: buckeroo (#42)
If it's something fucked up like the way Yunuchlown takes care of his wife (diapers, incontinence), there's not enough curiosity in the universe.
just a point of curiousity... how does Mud care for you?
#47. To: FormerLurker (#26)
Actually he does have both logical and rational reasons for his claims. The fact that you can't understand them is your problem not his. Our understanding of the universe is very incomplete. Feel free to use religion to fill in the blanks, it's been done before.
Unless Hawking was around prior to the creation of THIS universe, he's just guessing, and has no logical or rational reason to claim he KNOWS that the universe can "create itself from nothing".
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
#48. To: buckeroo (#42)
I prefer Mud to you Buck. He has better manners then you do.
#49. To: Flintlock (#0)
I'll bet he believes aeroplanes made the WTC disintegrate too.
Why would an obviously faked video of a plane hitting the WTC be aired on International news? Why wouldn't they just use a real video of the plane?
#50. To: buckeroo (#38)
That's not saying much, hell, it wouldn't even be much of a challenge for Trig Palin.
... he would spit you out of your own website in a heartbeat.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#51. To: A K A Stone (#48)
This is good news as I am not queer in any way ... exactly how does Mud open his silk kimono to you; I am sure the women on 4um want to learn how you connived Mud to lay with you?
I prefer Mud to you Buck.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#52. To: FormerLurker (#26)
Well.... in a nutshell, Hawking considers the creation of the universe (big bang style) to be not just the creation of all matter, but of time itself. This is in line Einstein's theory of relativity which says that space and time are intimately connected, such that you cannot have one without the other. Ergo, Hawking compares questions about time before the big bang with the metaphor of what is north of the north pole? Just as it makes no sense to ask what is north of the north pole, it's also makes no sense to ask what happened before the big bang, since time did not exist "until" the big bang. Many Christians have no trouble with the concept of God creating the universe, but I think few have wondered if God might have also created time itself. I suspect most have always assumed that God is subject to time just as all of us are. As I posted above, I think the title of this thread incorrectly claims Hawking is an athiest. As far as I know, Hawking is an agnostic. I think any true scientist would never be an athiest, as proving God's non-existence will never happen. Can't prove a negative.
NOBODY can say with any degree of certainty what existed prior to the creation of our universe, or the grand scheme of things beyond our understanding. Unless Hawking was around prior to the creation of THIS universe, he's just guessing, and has no logical or rational reason to claim he KNOWS that the universe can "create itself from nothing".
One question I'd have for him would be, what IS gravity? Is Hawking saying that just because there is such a thing as gravity, there can't be a superior intelligence that exists beyond his own human mind?
#53. To: A K A Stone (#44)
We both know you can't afford to lose five over there. Because I'm feeling generous, I'll throw you a bone. It's not meant to be a DICKTATERship, wherein you are the DICK and your posters are the TATERS. What is the purpose of you site anyway? To have posters "like" and "care" for you? Is your ego really that desperate and fragile? To paraphrase Tommy The Mad Artist: It is better to be hated for who or what you are, than loved for who or what you are not.
There are about 5 over there I am real tempted to give the boot.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#54. To: Flintlock (#47)
Hawkings theory is idiocy. These are not my words but a cut and paste of some comment made by some guy. But it hits the nail on the head. Next time you’re at the beach, pick up a grain of sand, look at it and then look all around you. Contemplate the universe and everything in it. Now imagine that everything in the universe came from, not that grain of sand, but something smaller but not something smaller, rather something that did not exist. If gravity, a physical property, where so great as to keep all non existent matter held together, then what was it that caused gravity to be overwhelmed with such force as to allow the Big Bang to occur.
#55. To: Pinguinite, gengis gandhi, Original_Intent, all (#17)
Is Hawking saying there is no God or just that God didn't necessarily create the Universe. God could be the Creator of the laws that facilitate the creation of the Universe.
Why would an obviously faked video of a plane hitting the WTC be aired on International news? Why wouldn't they just use a real video of the plane?
#56. To: Pinguinite (#52)
Yes you can. Quite easily.
Can't prove a negative.
#57. To: A K A Stone (#54)
Put SG on full privilege, Stone. After all I told Fredo he could come back.
#58. To: abraxas (#53)
Care for me means not hostile to me. If you want to come and just attack me and not contribute. You are not welcome. You can still sign up and I wont stop you. But you will not receive a welcome.
#59. To: Jethro Tull (#57)
He doesn't want to join up. If he does all he has to do is ask. Or just go sign up. Here is a little secret. Even people who don't put a valid email address. They all get elevated to full status. To be honest I don't know a lot of Sams positions. Except his fuck stone position.
#60. To: Jethro Tull (#57)
I think someone killed the real Fred and took his account.
#61. To: A K A Stone (#58)
Stone, Fredo calls you a loon, an asshole and a s'bag. Banning SG while permitting those insults is absurd.
Care for me means not hostile to me.
#62. To: A K A Stone (#23)
The Bible says that those who don't believe in God are fools. I believe the Bible. I'm pretty sure Hawking is an agnostic, not an athiest. Athiests don't believe in God. Agnostics aren't sure one way or the other. But that probably still qualifies as a fool by your definition, and the Bible's.
#63. To: wudidiz (#55)
He says, "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes. Basically, he is saying that God isn't the reason for creation. Hence, he would then be demoted from Creator status. So, spontaneous is meant to supercede God.........but I think God could be spontaneous. : )
Is Hawking saying there is no God or just that God didn't necessarily create the Universe.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#64. To: gengis gandhi, (#47)
(((ping)))
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
#65. To: Jethro Tull (#61)
lol I never banned SG. Fred is more like an interloper then a welcome guest right now.
#66. To: buckeroo (#27)
Uh..... did I say that??
Are you saying, Hawking is a living GOD?
#67. To: abraxas (#18)
i think a high IQ in many cases is overrated. EQ is much more important in terms of relationship success. i know a number of high IQers who possess little common sense and with low sociability.
#68. To: A K A Stone, Samuel Gray (#59)
In your dreams, JizzBelly.
I don't know a lot of Sams positions. Except his fuck stone position.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#69. To: Flintlock (#0)
But, But, BUT!!! What about Hey-Sus?
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