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Title: Creation came 'from nothing,' not God: Stephen Hawking
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URL Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-09-03-hawking02_ST_N.htm
Published: Sep 3, 2010
Author: AP staff
Post Date: 2010-09-03 08:59:40 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 641
Comments: 27
In his newest book, renowned physicist Professor Stephen Hawking, shown here in June at the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada, says that God was not necessary for creation. LONDON (AP) — Did creation need a creator? British physicist and mathematician Stephen Hawking says no, arguing in his new book that there need not be a God behind the creation of the universe. The concept is explored in The Grand Design, excerpts of which were printed in the British newspaper The Times on Thursday. The book, written with fellow physicist Leonard Mlodinow, is scheduled to be published by Bantam Press on Sept. 9. FAITH & REASON: Hawking alters position on God in new book
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#1. To: Ada (#0)
Nothing from nothing. My man Billy Preston had it down.
"Society is, always has been and always will be a structure for the exploitation and oppression of the majority through systems of political force dictated by an élite, enforced by thugs, uniformed or not, and upheld by a willful ignorance and stupidity on the part of the very majority whom the system oppresses." -- Richard K. Morgan
It surely wasn't created by some jewish guy that needed rest on the 7th day. I'll go out on a limb and say gravity is generated by matter, which has always existed. I guess that means matter and energy are god. Now we have a testable hypothesis. Science can actually prove that matter and energy exist.
So who created matter?
That's a question that man will never be able to answer. But, if God created matter, then who or what created God? It does amaze me that we, as a species, can't even begin to comprehend all of this.
#2. To: Turtle (#1)
I wonder who created gravity.
#3. To: Ada (#2)
(Edited)
I wonder who created gravity.
#4. To: Googolplex (#3)
I'll go out on a limb and say gravity is generated by matter, which has always existed.
#5. To: Ada (#4)
So who created matter?
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
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#6. To: Ada (#0) (Edited)
Just because Federal Reserve notes come from thin air hardly means everything does! Hawking is doing some powerful drugs, or maybe Satan paid him a bundle to write it.
Creation came 'from nothing,'
God is always good!
#7. To: RickyJ (#6)
I suppose I should give you credit that you waited til the latter half of your silly statement to invoke invisible make-believe/non-existent entities. ...but I won't. That's a pretty stupid statement to make. "The devil made him do it."
Hawking is doing some powerful drugs, or maybe Satan paid him a bundle to write it.
#8. To: Critter (#5)
Are you of the "particles" or the "waves" school regarding matter?
But, if God created matter, then who or what created God?
#9. To: Ada (#8)
Neither. I'm from the "I haven't a danged clue" regarding matter :) I don't think the human mind will ever be able to comprehend anything that doesn't have a beginning. Everything comes from somewhere or from something. Nothing can ever be made from nothing.
Are you of the "particles" or the "waves" school regarding matter?
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
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#10. To: Critter (#9)
Matter, atoms, particles, waves -- none of that creates itself.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#11. To: Ada (#4)
Nobody created matter. Matter has always existed, along with it's counterpart energy. Matter is what you define as god....it has always existed. Matter existed before and after the big bang. Matter is the creator of the universe. Matter is the creator of gravity, space, and time. The universe is a big ball of matter, with lots of non-empty space in between smaller balls of matter.
So who created matter?
#12. To: Critter (#9) (Edited)
Your statements fly in the face of people who believe in the biblical jewish tribal god. The jewish tribal god, yahweh, claims in the bible he has no beginning, no end, and has no creator. Basically, yahweh sprung from nothing. If you profile the creators of most superhero comic books, professional magic tricks, and Hollywood movies, you might be able to guess who created yahweh.
I don't think the human mind will ever be able to comprehend anything that doesn't have a beginning. Everything comes from somewhere or from something. Nothing can ever be made from nothing.
#13. To: Googolplex (#12)
He doesn't say that. What He says is "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end."
The jewish tribal god, yahweh, claims in the bible he has no beginning, no end, and has no creator. Basically, yahweh sprung from nothing.
#14. To: Googolplex (#11)
How do you know this is true?
Matter has always existed, along with it's counterpart energy.
#15. To: Critter (#9)
But. . .but . . .aren't you claiming that matter has always existed? If matter is something, it had to have come from somewhere.
I don't think the human mind will ever be able to comprehend anything that doesn't have a beginning. Everything comes from somewhere or from something. Nothing can ever be made from nothing.
#16. To: Ada (#14) (Edited)
Mass & energy, in the interchangeable forms of matter and radiation and motion, cannot be created or destroyed. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%80%93energy_equivalence Conservation of Mass and Energy The concept of mass–energy equivalence connects the concepts of conservation of mass and conservation of energy, which continue to hold separately. The theory of relativity allows particles which have rest mass to be converted to other forms of mass which require motion, such as kinetic energy, heat, or light. However, the mass remains. Kinetic energy or light can also be converted to new kinds of particles which have rest mass, but again the energy remains. Both the total mass and the total energy inside a totally closed system remain constant over time, as seen by any single observer in a given inertial frame. In other words, energy cannot be created or destroyed, and energy, in all of its forms, has mass. Mass also cannot be created or destroyed, and in all of its forms, has energy. According to the theory of relativity, mass and energy as commonly understood, are two names for the same thing, and neither one is changed or transformed into the other. Rather, neither one appears without the other. Rather than mass being changed into energy, the view of relativity is that rest mass has been changed to a more mobile form of mass, but remains mass. In this process, neither the amount of mass nor the amount of energy changes. Thus, if energy changes type and leaves a system, it simply takes its mass with it. If either mass or energy disappears from a system, it will always be found that both have simply moved off to another place.
How do you know this is true?
#17. To: Ada (#15)
No, what I am saying is these are the limits of current human understanding: Everything comes from somewhere or from something. Nothing can ever be made from nothing. People may believe other things, but the human mind cannot understand those other things, and therefore, has to except them on blind faith.
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
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#18. To: Ada (#13) (Edited)
If yahweh had a beginning, an alpha, who created yahweh? If yahweh has an end, an omega, who destroys yahweh? The correct answer to these questions is....the furtive mind of the authors of the old testament. The same people that profit themselves offering you Hollywood products, superhero comic books, and professional magician tricks. It would be useful to conclude that the creator of the universe, energy and matter, is also the creator of the authors of the bible, who created the tribal fiction of yahweh.
#19. To: Ada (#4)
No matter, never mind. It's an old one.
So who created matter?
"Society is, always has been and always will be a structure for the exploitation and oppression of the majority through systems of political force dictated by an élite, enforced by thugs, uniformed or not, and upheld by a willful ignorance and stupidity on the part of the very majority whom the system oppresses." -- Richard K. Morgan
#20. To: Googolplex (#18)
If yahweh has an end, an omega, who destroys yahweh? We might say that whoever/whatever created God created gravity. But that doesn't solve anything. Destruction is much easier to envision--some day the universe will go ka-boom or retreat back onto itself with a whimper. God was not created by OT "authors". Hindus, Greeks, Babylonians, Egyptians all had stories of the gods and creation. I put authors in quotes because the stories were there long before the Hebrew scribes decided it was time to put them in writing. The stories, of course, were sacred and the scribes did not consider themselves authorized as which one to pick so they wrote them all down. Which is why you have two accounts as to the creation of humans.
If yahweh had a beginning, an alpha, who created yahweh?
#21. To: Ada (#20)
So, you are not a christian, or at least not a bible fundamentalist. Who or what is your god? I've documented the scientifically accurate concept that mass and energy can neither be created or destroyed. That concept literally means that energy and mass have always existed, and will always exist, as I have already stated. I have also documented that mass occupies and creates space, creates gravity, can convert into energy, and take the form of kinetic, radiation, heat, and potential. How does your god compare with these facts, facts that show that mass and energy are the true god, the creator of the universe? You speak of 2 creation accounts; I'm guessing bible fiction versus evolution? Is this correct? Evolution has nothing to do with the creation of the universe. You have mixed metaphors. Science hasn't concluded as yet how the universe, as we see it today, was created. The big bang is only one theory of many. However it happened, it doesn't change the fact that energy and mass have always existed, and will always exist. Mass and energy are what you consider god.
#22. To: Ada (#20) (Edited)
Since mass and energy pre-date any god that calls itself the alpha, the beginning, then that implies your god was created by mass and energy. Who is the real god here, the creator (mass & energy) or the creation (yahweh)?
#23. To: Googolplex (#21)
More or less true (there is a question of whether nuclear reactions are an exception)in a closed system. The question is whether our universe is a closed system or infinite. Latest thinking seems to be that the universe might be a closed system surrounded by a membrane and just one of many universes--the multiverse is now the fashion. In the multiverse, if it exists, the laws of physics ("the laws of physics are the laws of God") might not be the same as they are here. If we suppose that energy and mass predated the universe then we might conclude that they are the creating Elohim. Now I am pulling this out of my, uh, hat but IMO so are the physicists. Energy, of course, is energy but what is matter, i.e., particles or waves? In the 19th century a pastor mailed a letter to a girl as follows: Miss --- --- 123 4th Avenue Nowhere Armpit County State of NY United States The World The Universe The Mind of God If the universe exists in the Mind of God, then matter is probably waves which are very much like mind waves which the sentient all possess. Genesis has two accounts of how humans were created. The first is the better known--the Elohim create Adam in their image and then Eve from his rib. The second (and older) account has the Elohim fashioning humans from mud and then breathing life into them. (Incidentally, "life" and "soul" are one and the same thing.)
I've documented the scientifically accurate concept that mass and energy can neither be created or destroyed.
#24. To: Ada (#23)
You have confused mass with matter. Radio waves have mass too. Nuclear reactions retain mass, whether it be in the form of radio waves or particles. Multiverse is unsubstantiated theory. By definition, matter occupies space, so it cannot be a radio wave. You are confusing brain waves as being radio waves. Brain waves are not radio waves.
#25. To: Googolplex (#24)
Do brain waves have mass? Multiverse is unsubstantiated but its the latest craze with the physicists.
#26. To: Ada (#25)
Yes. What's your point? Shat has mass too, and supports waves when perturbed, but most people don't think of it as a god. Some masses are more evolved than others.
Do brain waves have mass?
#27. To: Googolplex (#26)
Do brain waves have mass? Yes. What's your point? I couldn't figure out where your radio waves came from when the topic was creation from the Mind of God, i.e., brain waves.
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