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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: Former senator, engineers offer ‘proof’ of 9/11 controlled demolitions
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/ ... rs-911-controlled-demolitions/
Published: Sep 10, 2010
Author: Raw Story
Post Date: 2010-09-10 10:43:08 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 14579
Comments: 259

The nine-year-old body of 9/11 conspiracy theories includes many improbable (and sometimes contradictory) claims, everything from remote-controlled planes flying into the World Trade Center, to a missile hitting the Pentagon, to mass kidnappings of air passengers.

But a group of more than 1,200 architects and engineers is building what it hopes is a scientifically sound argument about one 9/11 claim: That the World Trade Center buildings were destroyed not by fires caused by the airplane collisions, but by a controlled demolition.

At a press conference in Washington DC, Thursday, the group Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth offered evidence "that all three WTC skyscrapers on September 11, 2001, in NYC were destroyed by explosive controlled demolition."

The third building the group referred to was World Trade Center 7, a skyscraper that collapsed about eight hours after the main WTC towers fell. For many 9/11 "truthers," WTC7's collapse despite not being hit by a plane is the "smoking gun" proving that something other than airplanes brought down the towers. The WTC7 collapse was not addressed in the official 9/11 Commission report.

"That building fell completely into its own footprint," blogger Andrew Steele told WKTV in Utica. "You can watch on YouTube yourself and use your own common sense. Even if you don't have a scientific background ... if you have two eyes, you can see that fire alone did not bring down that building."

His claims, and those of the 1,270 architects and engineers who have signed on to the effort, were bolstered by the support of former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel, who said in a press release that "critically important evidence has come forward after the original government building reports were completed."

Gravel has been concerned with the events of September 11, 2001, for some time now. He has called for an independent investigation into 9/11.

"Unlike the first investigation, this commission should be granted subpoena power and full access to all governmental files and personnel," Gravel wrote. "George Bush should be forced to testify ALONE."

San Francisco architect Richard Gage said the way the towers collapsed was consistent with a controlled demolition, not a chaotic structural collapse.

"The official FEMA and NIST reports provide insufficient, contradictory, and fraudulent accounts of the circumstances of the towers' destruction," Gage said. "We are therefore calling for a grand jury investigation of NIST officials."

But Gage added that "government investigators at the NIST have been forced to acknowledge the free-fall descent, an indicting fact, after being presented with analysis by AE911Truth petition signers."

On its Web site, the architects' and engineers' group lists facts that suggest explosives were used to take down the towers.

-- Rapid onset of "collapse" -- Sounds of explosions at ground floor - a second before the building's destruction -- Symmetrical "structural failure" -- through the path of greatest resistance -- at free-fall acceleration -- Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic dust clouds -- Expert corroboration from the top European Controlled Demolition professional -- FEMA finds rapid oxidation and intergranular melting on structural steel samples

WTC7 exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire, i.e. -- Slow onset with large visible deformations -- Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, to the side most damaged by the fires) -- High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never "collapsed". Debunking9/11, a Web site devoted to disproving the claims of 9/11 "truthers," argues that no aircraft was needed to bring down WTC7, because "while building 7 wasn't hit by an airliner, it was hit by the large perimeter columns of the Tower collapse. It was 400 ft away but the towers were more than 1300 ft tall. As the tower peeled open, it easily tilted over to reach building 7."

"Truthers" and debunkers have been arguing for years over whether the scant photographic evidence of WTC7's south side after the main towers' collapse shows enough damage to justify the building's collapse.

"All the buildings just as far away from both towers as WTC7 were hit," Debunking9/11 asserts. "The others were either very short buildings which didn't have to support a massive load above or had no fire. Only Building 7 had unfought fires and the massive load of 40 stories above them."

"Justice for all."

What's wrong with calling for a transparent, internationally-supported investigation? I want to know what happened that day to all of those buildings, and I want the chain of events that happened up to their collapse. Don't care how ugly the truth is, I just want to know. Why is asking for an independent investigation so bad?

I'm not an engineering expert, but ALL of the buildings collapsing (WTC 1, 2, 7) look just like every other controlled demolition video I've seen from around the world. The pieces of the day's events (NORAD, Bin Laden's family being sent out, etc) don't fit together right. It just smells fishy.

Who got fired for not doing their job? Who went to jail for criminal negligence? People of authority responding "nothing to see here, move along" aren't helping convince me that what we're being told is the truth. I just want to see Justice.

Isn't wanting "Justice for all" patriotic?

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 161.

#1. To: Ada (#0)

Former senator, Mike Gravel. What a media-hungry nutjob. I do actually know someone who sent $10 to his presidential campaign which does prove that even nutjobs, with publicity, can rake in money from the public no matter how nuts they are.

During his "campaign" for president, he went back to NYC where he drove a cab back in the Fifties and took out a classic Yellow Cab. He was promptly involved in a collision.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-09-10   10:52:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: TooConservative (#1)

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2010-09-10   12:47:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: ghostdogtxn (#2)

Nice. Go after the messenger for something completely unrelated when you have absolutely nothing with which to credibly refute the message.

Well, I left out the part where Gravel lost the Dem primaries in 2008 and then proceeded to switch parties and made a laughable bid to get the LP nomination and run against McStain and Obongo.

I'm afraid he's a whackjob and everyone knows it.

Your problem is that you think someone supposedly famous (not that he is) actually helps your cause even if 99% of America thinks he's a wacko (which he is). And you want to blame me for not sharing your delusions.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-09-10   14:58:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: TooConservative (#5)

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2010-09-14   9:33:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: ghostdogtxn (#64)

And your problem is that you can watch a building free fall into its own footprint and cannot open your mind to the likelihood that it was a controlled demo.

I'm open to it. I just require evidence, a trait lacking among Truthers who jump to claim wild conspiracies, nano-thermite, antigravity and energy weapons, and Area 51 technology from UFOs was used to bring down WTC.

The Truthers have never weeded out the con-men and nutjobs in their ranks. That's probably the major reason why people think they are kooks, because they let kooks speak for them. I expect this pattern will continue because the Truthers still don't grasp how damaging this is and how it plays into the hands of those who want to promulgate the gooberment's ridiculous "investigation" and the 9/11 Commission report.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-09-14   11:40:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: TooConservative (#65)

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2010-09-14   15:35:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: ghostdogtxn (#95)

The collapse of WTC7 itself is evidence. It was filmed from several angles, and it makes no sense at all that it fell from fire or airplane parts.

If you can accept that premise, then what follows is a step into "truther" land, whether you want to take that step or not.

There is the philosophical difference.

I require evidence to accept these theories, some of which are ludicrous.

Some of the rest of you simply say the offered explanation is ludicrous therefore you can just make up shit, however ridiculous.

You have to have a standard for evidence, for falsifiability. If you abandon that, you end up with a cause but no science to back. This happens over and over in fields like anthropology or sociology or climatology (global hotting) or evolution.

If your beliefs cannot be falsified or proven by evidence, you have a religion, not science.

I recommend reading the science philosopher, Karl Popper, who makes it quite clear what is and is not science based on the sound standard of empirical falsifiability. If you don't understand the difference, you can never convince intelligent modern people that your ideas are valid. This is one reason why the global hotting scammers failed. Fundamentally flawed and unfalsifiable "science". You have to have replicable evidence, plausibility, elimination of alternative explanations, etc. And most of all, you must discard theories once they are proven false (a key sign of scamming). Otherwise, you end up with something like a religious belief, not science.

Hell, you guys should love Popper, brilliant man who was the son of ex-Jewish Christian parents.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-09-14   16:17:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: TooConservative (#107)

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2010-09-14   16:27:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: ghostdogtxn (#109)

The problem I have is that the official mythology is essentially proved false by the way WTC7 fell. It doesn't work, and no amount of bullshit thrown at the problem makes it work.

I will say for the thousandth time, WTC 7 is the weak point. Very few non-Truthers, exposed to what happened, will fail to doubt the gooberment acount. Knock down that domino and the rest may fall, in much the way the global hottists collapsed once their "data" was exposed as cooked and fraudulent.

Which means something else happened than what we are told happened. I don't "know" what that something else was. But a rational person, once he finds that one hypothesis is disproved by evidence, does not cling to that hypothesis. The choice is to formulate a new hypothesis or abandon the inquiry.

Naturally, you have to discard old theories once evidence disproves them. However, we can see that that does not actually happen with Truthing. It reminds me of how often evolution or Marxist economic and historical theory were put to the evideniary test, failed utterly, and they just fluffed the theory around the edges and then pretended that now they had corrected their model.

No, you have to have empirical falsifiability. You have to be able to test your theory against the evidence and abide by it. This is how real science works.

but I don't accept the collapse of WTC7 from debris and fire

I don't either. WTC 7 wasn't hit, didn't get hit by the other buildings, no credible evidence that enough flaming debris hit it, no video to show serious fires, etc. But the failure of their evidence still doesn't help us prove our own theory. Still, if you can convince enough people that the explanation is utterly ludicrous, you might force a real independent investigation into it, assuming that the real evidence has not already been destroyed.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-09-14   16:44:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: TooConservative (#115)

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2010-09-14   16:58:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: ghostdogtxn (#123)

It is the great leaps into conspiratorial theories that aren't at all supported by the evidence, when what should be done is a baby-step by baby-step serious inquiry.

No real election coverage yet except an unprecedented GOP turnout in Delaware. Normally, a GOP election in DE is about 20 depressed Republicans who turn out to determine who gets to lose to the Democrat (a moron like Biden). The huge turnout may indicate Dems who registered GOP to vote O'Donnell or may represent Republicans fed up with the state GOP or Republicans determined to get rid of Castle. Or all of the above.



I do see among Truther activists more recently a much greater seriousness about pursuing their goal in a narrower and single-minded way and with a much more disciplined message as a group.

They have to stop the scammers and con-men and attention whores (and, likely, agentes provocateurs) from discrediting them with the public.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-09-14   18:40:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#159. To: TooConservative (#139)

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2010-09-15   9:03:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#161. To: ghostdogtxn (#159)

I think it's tea party Republicans.

I think it will be half indy voters along with the conservative segment of the DE GOP.

I expect Castle may ignore the primary and then run as a write-in. O'Donnell did exactly this in 2006 after she lost the GOP primary so she can't cry foul.

If they can talk him into it, I think Castle would win as a write-in. The sheer controversy and his 40-year political relationship with voters in both parties could push him over the top as a write-in. And the RNC has nothing to lose since they know the seat is otherwise lost.

NRSC took the step of cutting off any money to her. Castle conceded but refuses to make a single statement of support for her. Something is cooking, probably analysis of the election returns to determine if he has a real shot of winning as a write-in.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-09-15   9:50:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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