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Title: Former senator, engineers offer ‘proof’ of 9/11 controlled demolitions
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URL Source: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/ ... rs-911-controlled-demolitions/
Published: Sep 10, 2010
Author: Raw Story
Post Date: 2010-09-10 10:43:08 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 14694
Comments: 259
The nine-year-old body of 9/11 conspiracy theories includes many improbable (and sometimes contradictory) claims, everything from remote-controlled planes flying into the World Trade Center, to a missile hitting the Pentagon, to mass kidnappings of air passengers. But a group of more than 1,200 architects and engineers is building what it hopes is a scientifically sound argument about one 9/11 claim: That the World Trade Center buildings were destroyed not by fires caused by the airplane collisions, but by a controlled demolition. At a press conference in Washington DC, Thursday, the group Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth offered evidence "that all three WTC skyscrapers on September 11, 2001, in NYC were destroyed by explosive controlled demolition." The third building the group referred to was World Trade Center 7, a skyscraper that collapsed about eight hours after the main WTC towers fell. For many 9/11 "truthers," WTC7's collapse despite not being hit by a plane is the "smoking gun" proving that something other than airplanes brought down the towers. The WTC7 collapse was not addressed in the official 9/11 Commission report. "That building fell completely into its own footprint," blogger Andrew Steele told WKTV in Utica. "You can watch on YouTube yourself and use your own common sense. Even if you don't have a scientific background ... if you have two eyes, you can see that fire alone did not bring down that building." His claims, and those of the 1,270 architects and engineers who have signed on to the effort, were bolstered by the support of former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel, who said in a press release that "critically important evidence has come forward after the original government building reports were completed." Gravel has been concerned with the events of September 11, 2001, for some time now. He has called for an independent investigation into 9/11. "Unlike the first investigation, this commission should be granted subpoena power and full access to all governmental files and personnel," Gravel wrote. "George Bush should be forced to testify ALONE." San Francisco architect Richard Gage said the way the towers collapsed was consistent with a controlled demolition, not a chaotic structural collapse. "The official FEMA and NIST reports provide insufficient, contradictory, and fraudulent accounts of the circumstances of the towers' destruction," Gage said. "We are therefore calling for a grand jury investigation of NIST officials." But Gage added that "government investigators at the NIST have been forced to acknowledge the free-fall descent, an indicting fact, after being presented with analysis by AE911Truth petition signers." On its Web site, the architects' and engineers' group lists facts that suggest explosives were used to take down the towers. -- Rapid onset of "collapse" -- Sounds of explosions at ground floor - a second before the building's destruction -- Symmetrical "structural failure" -- through the path of greatest resistance -- at free-fall acceleration -- Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic dust clouds -- Expert corroboration from the top European Controlled Demolition professional -- FEMA finds rapid oxidation and intergranular melting on structural steel samples WTC7 exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire, i.e. -- Slow onset with large visible deformations -- Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, to the side most damaged by the fires) -- High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never "collapsed". Debunking9/11, a Web site devoted to disproving the claims of 9/11 "truthers," argues that no aircraft was needed to bring down WTC7, because "while building 7 wasn't hit by an airliner, it was hit by the large perimeter columns of the Tower collapse. It was 400 ft away but the towers were more than 1300 ft tall. As the tower peeled open, it easily tilted over to reach building 7." "Truthers" and debunkers have been arguing for years over whether the scant photographic evidence of WTC7's south side after the main towers' collapse shows enough damage to justify the building's collapse. "All the buildings just as far away from both towers as WTC7 were hit," Debunking9/11 asserts. "The others were either very short buildings which didn't have to support a massive load above or had no fire. Only Building 7 had unfought fires and the massive load of 40 stories above them." "Justice for all." What's wrong with calling for a transparent, internationally-supported investigation? I want to know what happened that day to all of those buildings, and I want the chain of events that happened up to their collapse. Don't care how ugly the truth is, I just want to know. Why is asking for an independent investigation so bad? I'm not an engineering expert, but ALL of the buildings collapsing (WTC 1, 2, 7) look just like every other controlled demolition video I've seen from around the world. The pieces of the day's events (NORAD, Bin Laden's family being sent out, etc) don't fit together right. It just smells fishy. Who got fired for not doing their job? Who went to jail for criminal negligence? People of authority responding "nothing to see here, move along" aren't helping convince me that what we're being told is the truth. I just want to see Justice. Isn't wanting "Justice for all" patriotic?
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#169. To: TooConservative (#166)
(Edited)
Your explanations rely on magical thinking, where laws of physics are violated, and actual evidence is either tossed out or ignored. The wings and fuel disappeared in order for your story to make sense, and a gang of cave dwellers took an iPod, plugged it into the cockpit, and made it fly like a cruise missile. Oh, and the people who performed these superhuman feats rose from the dead, since at least some of them are still alive. If you want to read what a real pilot and aeronautical engineer has to say about all this, read the following link... 9/11-The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training
Or the instruments and local radar aren't designed for such accuracy at such a low level over a metro area. I would also want to see an expert independent evaluation of the data including the flight recorders and the ground radar readings from the plane. There are also eyewitnesses who say they saw the plane. I prefer my hacked autopilot account primarily because it eliminates the need for an untrained pilot to perform expert flight maneuvers at treetop but does not require a substitute missile and the disposal of the 757 and its crew (and keeping any witnesses from seeing or instruments from recording what really happened to the plane and people after the missile was substituted along the flight path).
So what happened to the wings and the fuel? Did Allah make them disappear?
The flight path is described as follows from the author of the link I just gave you; The maneuver was in fact so precisely executed that the air traffic controllers at Dulles refused to believe the blip on their screen was a commercial airliner. Danielle O’Brian, one of the air traffic controllers at Dulles who reported seeing the aircraft at 9:25 said, “The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane.” (http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=4084) And then, all of a sudden we have magic. Voila! Hanjour finds the Pentagon sitting squarely in his sights right before him. But even that wasn’t good enough for this fanatic Muslim kamikaze pilot. You see, he found that his “missile” was heading towards one of the most densely populated wings of the Pentagon—and one occupied by top military brass, including the Secretary of Defense, Rumsfeld. Presumably in order to save these men’s lives, he then executes a sweeping 270-degree turn and approaches the building from the opposite direction and aligns himself with the only wing of the Pentagon that was virtually uninhabited due to extensive renovations that were underway (there were some 120 civilians construction workers in that wing who were killed; their work included blast-proofing the outside wall of that wing). on top of all the other impossible things about the official story we're supposed to believe that an inexperienced person piloted that plane. the guy was not a professional pilot and had no real experience even landing a jet like this big passenger jet. and he performs maneuvers that experienced pilots say are nearly impossible.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
There are conflicting reports as to the altitude of the aircraft when it began the 270 degree turn. Many say 7000 feet, where the author of the article I linked assumed ground level. It would of course be more likely that it was at 7000 feet. do you really believe that the forces in government that did this sept 11'th crime can't come up with eye-witnesses to speak? They can come up with witnesses including the air traffic controllers, but the physical evidence from the crash aftermath indicates that their story is a lie.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Interesting info. It does not preclude my scenario. And my explanation of a hacked autopilot is still far more conceivable than untrained pilots performing such maneuvers. With full control over the plane's control surfaces on a millisecond basis, one could cause a crash by altering the flight characteristics in the last few tenths of a second prior to impact. Again, this is the kind of thing that no aircraft designer would ever test for because they would never expect any airliner to be flown in this way. My explanation still beats the expert-caveman-pilot scenario even if you don't happen to care for it.
do you really think that a new 'independent' study group will be able to put a magnifying glass up to the photos and magically find the wreckage from the passenger jet. Look at the pictures man, the wreckage is not there. You don't need an 'independent' study to look at this. You should trust your own eyes. also, you should be able to comprehend that the ruling regime including our government and mass media both have lied to us and acted maliciously against us at Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma City and elsewhere. The government lies, acts maliciously with extreme harm to our people, the media lies and covers up. this is their pattern of behavior over time. and that pattern means nothing to you? You still follow them? at some point you have to ask yourself if you are being righteously patriotic or stupidly psychotic?
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
It would of course be more likely that it was at 7000 feet. Again, underlining my point about just how reliable some of this data really is. I am especially suspicious of radar and flight recorder data at treetop. No way did they design their system primarily for that situation since the designers will generally assume that the plane is already lost if it is that close to the ground and not over a runway landing at the proper speed. For just one example, how often have they tested these airliners flying that low to the ground, that fast, and with their landing gear up? I don't think they do that much if at all, though they might simulate it on computers or in a wind tunnel. Can your Truth pilots say they know that much about flying a plane at 500mph with the gear up at treetop? I know they are really well-trained but I would be very surprised if that is a focus of their training. That would be an example of the kind of thing that would get them fired.
Can't I be both rigtheously patriotic and stupidly psychotic at the same time? I'm willing to try, just for you, Red. And you probably wonder why your former friends and relatives feverishly try to change the subject if you start talking about That Day.
Your "hacked autopilot" is about as likely as Hanjour being blessed by Allah with the superhuman power to fly the aircraft better than a pro, for the host of reasons I've already gone over. It still doesn't explain the following, even if it were possible; A) The aircraft could not have descended to ground level from 50 feet high in a fraction of a second while maintaining a neutral pitch (ie. keeping the nose level). B) The section of the Pentagon where the left wing should have impacted still had intact glass windows, and no external fuel fire from the exploding fuel tank located inside the wing. C) You have no explanation for the second aircraft witnessed by credible witnesses, including two Pentagon police officers. Even IF an instant descent to the correct altitude were possible, the plane would not have STOPPED descending (due to inertia) quick enough to avoid crashing into the Pentagon lawn.
Well, that has been my point! The hacked autopilot eliminates the need for the Geico Caveman flying an airliner at treetop. It's not a perfect explanation but it eliminates at least some of the problems with the official account.
you're right about that. but is it so easy to believe that a pilot in a remote location could put the plane inches off the ground and put it into the 1'st floor like that. Even from a remote location - a pretty daring way to fly. Planes jump up and down by themselves when coming in for a landing. it would be so easy to crash if they tried what they allegedly did. Many people are like you - they do not trust the official version, but they don't buy the ideas that government did this themselves. I think it was an inside job. the people who rule us are evil. they are not incompetent, they are evil. they do bad things to us and to others on purpose.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
It left a scar on the lawn. The plane hit the ground and bounced, the collapsing plane exploding as its wreckage hit the building between the first and second floors. And the plane did, as I've said, penetrate all five rings. In this section of the Pentagon, renovations were five days from completion for its new steel underframe, a project which had been underway for the entire Pentagon since the mid-Nineties. The Pentagon wasn't too well built and was sort of a rush job originally and they had to do something to reinforce the entire structure. Perhaps you already know about the renovation project.
The accounts of tree top level altitude are from various witnesses. What is certain is that Dulles Air Traffic control located a stray blip on their radar and they assumed it was the airliner which disappeared from radar somewhere over Ohio. What is also fairly certain is the flight path it took once visible on radar indicates it made a rapidly descending 270 degree turn, starting at 7000 feet, and ending up near ground level.
Pure bullshit on your part. Even the government doesn't make that claim. The entry point is a clean hit, and there is NO scaring of the lawn AT ALL. If the plane had hit the lawn, it would have blown up on the lawn and never penetrated the building. It would have sprayed burning jet fuel EVERYWHERE, including the lawn itself. You are desparate to keep your story from falling apart aren't you.
I don't think you could remotely pilot it that way. A human being cannot react in a few milliseconds. Even a computer, though fast enough, is hard to program. Admittedly, it would be difficult to do the hacked thing but I find it far more plausible and doable than the Geico caveman or a remote piloting job. Remote piloting would require several milliseconds of lag, time you just don't have. The pilots who argue against the Caveman do make a good case against human piloting but not machine control. I'll readily admit my explanation still has some problems. Just not nearly as many as the Caveman.
You are thinking as if this thing was a solid chunk of lead, which not only can fly like a needle in a hurricane, perform like a cruise missle and dart about like a mosquito, but it can crash into the lawn, bounce (at over 500 mph), shoot directly into the first floor of the Pentagon, penetrating a blast proof wall, and pierce through 5 separate rings of the building. Did you know that aircraft are basically egg shells made of aluminum? Do you know what happens to an egg when you throw it into a lawn? Do you know what happens if you throw that egg into a brick wall?
I would say a remote takeover of the flight SYSTEMS is MUCH more likely, with human guidance on approach, perhaps computer assist on terminal approach. THAT, or it was NOT Flight 77 to begin with, it was some sort of REAL missile, and the REAL Flight 77 WAS in fact taken over by remote control and flown somewhere else, with the passengers and crew neatly disposed of. Perhaps SOME were in fact in on it, who knows.
Only if I allow you to repeal inertia. The wings might have remained intact enough to hold up after the bounce until they hit the steel-reinforced concrete (steel reinforcement was five days from completion supposedly). This is consistent with reports that the plane flew at 500mph but only hit the building at 350mph. The "bounce" sucked 150mph out of its inertia but the plane would be coming apart in the milliseconds between the "bounce" and the impact. Of course, my hacked autopilot would alter the flight configuration of the control surfaces to drop the plane at the edge of the Pentagon. Since it could not be so precise at that speed, you had the "bounce" with the wreckage rising to hit between the first and second floor as the primary impact. Again, this isn't a perfect explanation but it does beat the hell out of the Caveman.
You can "bounce" an egg off the ground, just like skipping a stone on water. We had a lot of chickens when I was a kid so I can speak from personal experience. Actually, an egg skipping off the ground is probably a much more durable object than an airliner at 500mph.
While he may not have been exactly in the know he was likely directed to buy the leases. Probably because he is a Sayanim. And a couple billion in insurance money buys a lot of silence. I'm sure Silverstein knows a great deal about what happened that day, and more than likely is on the "committee" which oversaw the attacks themselves. Besides being a major beneficiary of the attacks, he would have needed to be in on the operation in order to allow the towers to be wired up with explosives. I doubt it would have happened under his nose without his knowledge. Exactly. When you reconstruct what had to have gone on for the towers, and "7", to be brought down then you have to deduce and examine what kind of planning and organizing had to occur. So, one of the key problems would be access to the buildings and no snoopy Port Authority employees wondering who all those strange "maintenance men" were? And that is likely one of the covers used to wire "the job". I listened to a guest on Rense one night who suggested as much (might have been either Jim Marrs or Jay Weidner). The upshot being, and it makes sense when you think about it, who really pays attention to maintenance men running around a building? They're part of the scenery and certainly the self important yuppies and other "suits" are not going to pay much mind to the "little people". So, it would seem key to have somebody in charge of the buildings who would not ask the wrong right questions. Thus "Lucky Larry", likely already a Sayanim, gets tagged to buy the leases on the White Elephants with the knowledge that he would not be stuck with them and would get a big payday out of the deal. He would not even have to be privy to all of the details as he just needs to know his own compartmentalized piece of the operation, and not to ask questions. That would also explain how he knew bldg. 7 was already wired and it was just a matter of setting off the charges to "pull" the building. How much he knew is a question mark but he did have to have some level of knowledge of the general plan so that he would cooperate with giving passes to the "maintenance men".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Your video was taken well before any investigation when it was still smoldering. It took hours for it to cool enough for any real inspection to occur. Still, not too terrible a video. Then you (not me) have to start arguing with the Truther pilots who don't believe in the Caveman pilot. I'll again stay with hacked autopilot, at least a device fast enough to react in the milliseconds required over the seconds that plane flew so low before impact.
The plane was not made of lead, nor was it made of rubber. Any impact with the lawn where the momentum of the plane would have been abruptly stopped would have resulted in the wings being ripped off and tumbling into the building, and would have left a HUGE gash in the lawn itself, with fireballs of fuel burning everywhere between the point of impact and the Pentagon wall. It most certainly wouldn't have had the ability to penetrate the first wall, never mind the rings. There was no gash, no scratch, and no fuel spread all over the lawn. You are grasping at straws here, going BEYOND the evidence and fabricating your own imaginary evidence, where none exist. BTW, you are also flat out wrong concerning the number of rings penetrated. It appears only the first ring was penetrated, the 2nd was apparently untouched, but the third had an exit hole, go figure... There is no evidence that a 757 hit the Pentagon. There is no jet fuel on the exterior walls, and the windows aren't broken where the left wing would have hit. Additionally, your claims concerning the aircraft "bouncing" off the lawn are pure BS, it DID NOT HAPPEN.
Put up a video on YouTube of you bouncing an egg off the ground, I'd like to see it done.
Actually, I assume the bounce could cause the wings to start folding up.
I don't have any videos like that. I do have a few of using an egg as a golf ball and as a baseball in fast-pitch. Would those do? Yes, you can bounce an egg off buffalo grass.
I'd say it'd be next to impossible for "19 angry arab hijackers" (some of whom are still alive) to have been able to reprogram the flight management computer to do what you suggest. It would NOT be impossible for a covert maintenance team to put in a few extra chips into the system, giving total control to the aircraft to whomever possessed the technology to do that sort of thing. So far, only the US government has the ability to fly airliners remotely. That, and the fact Flight 77 is more than likely NOT what hit the Pentagon points to something smaller, faster, and more agile, being the real culprit. A cruise missile, or modified fighter jet seem much more plausible than what you or the media are trying to sell. Again, the lack of fuel on the exterior walls of the Pentagon, along with the unbroken glass windows where the wing would have shattered them as it struck the building, are prime factors in eliminating the possibility of a 757 having struck the Pentagon. Also, the nearby fence was pushed AWAY from the Pentagon, not TOWARDS it as it would have been if it had been knocked down by a wing. Observe the fence on the ground to the left of the car in the following image. Sure, post the links.
Fuel would have gushed out and ignited. Where's the gash, and where's the fires on the lawn?
BTW, can you tell me how a 757 would fit into that little hole on the first floor? Here's an even better picture which wud has already posted a few times. How do you fit a 757 into that hole? Well, I have been told many times that I am quite expert at getting some big thing in a little tiny hole but that is a story for another time. :) I think this picture is far clearer. I object to the way Truthers use some of these pictures to try to lead people to what I consider to be false conclusions. And I think this has been done deliberately by con-men.
I also like this one for obvious reasons.
to think that the boeing jet could go through the little opening you'd have to think that each window was 75 feet wide. a missile hit the pentagon, but it exploded after going in. that is why it killed everyone on the first and second floors in that area. based on the evidence, this is the only possible answer. regarding the 'witnesses' - they are just intelligence assets.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Perhaps you read yesterday, in Europe, the pilot arrested for flying for the airlines without a license???? ALL HE EVER HAD FOR TRAINING WAS IN SMALL SINGLE ENGINE AIRCRAFT. Cannot be done, right????
Yes, can be done with aptitude, skills and training. Our "hijackers" OTOH were remarkably deficient in all of the above.
I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. - Roman Moroni
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestI think my explanations, imperfect as they are, are still more plausible than what you're offering. But relying on the data we have at this point may be a mistake. We don't have any kind of independent study of the data and lack some information on the systems themselves under extreme conditions like flying at such high speed so near the ground.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#170. To: FormerLurker (#167)
So then it couldn't have been a 757.
#171. To: TooConservative (#170)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#172. To: TooConservative (#170)
Or the instruments and local radar aren't designed for such accuracy at such a low level over a metro area. I would also want to see an expert independent evaluation of the data including the flight recorders and the ground radar readings from the plane.
According to FAA radar controllers, “Flight 77” then suddenly pops up over Washington DC and executes an incredibly precise diving turn at a rate of 360 degrees/minute while descending at 3,500 ft/min, at the end of which “Hanjour” allegedly levels out at ground level. Oh, I almost forgot: He also had the presence of mind to turn off the transponder in the middle of this incredibly difficult maneuver (one of his instructors later commented the hapless fellow couldn’t have spelt the word if his life depended on it).
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#173. To: FormerLurker (#172)
#174. To: TooConservative (#170)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#175. To: TooConservative (#170)
There are also eyewitnesses who say they saw the plane
#176. To: FormerLurker (#169)
If you want to read what a real pilot and aeronautical engineer have to say about all this, read the following link...
#177. To: TooConservative (#166)
We don't have any kind of independent study
#178. To: FormerLurker (#174)
There are conflicting reports as to the altitude of the aircraft when it began the 270 degree turn. Many say 7000 feet, where the author of the article I linked assumed ground level.
#179. To: Red Jones (#177)
at some point you have to ask yourself if you are being righteously patriotic or stupidly psychotic?
#180. To: TooConservative (#176)
And my explanation of a hacked autopilot is still far more conceivable than untrained pilots performing such maneuvers.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#181. To: Red Jones (#173)
on top of all the other impossible things about the official story we're supposed to believe that an inexperienced person piloted that plane. the guy was not a professional pilot and had no real experience even landing a jet like this big passenger jet. and he performs maneuvers that experienced pilots say are nearly impossible.
#182. To: TooConservative (#181)
The hacked autopilot eliminates the need for the Geico Caveman flying an airliner at treetop.
#183. To: FormerLurker (#180)
A) The aircraft could not have descended to ground level from 50 feet high in a fraction of a second while maintaining a neutral pitch (ie. keeping the nose level).
#184. To: TooConservative (#178)
Again, underlining my point about just how reliable some of this data really is. I am especially suspicious of radar and flight recorder data at treetop. No way did they design their system primarily for that situation since the designers will generally assume that the plane is already lost if it is that close to the ground and not over a runway landing at the proper speed.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#185. To: TooConservative (#183)
It left a scar on the lawn. The plane hit the ground and bounced, the collapsing plane exploding as its wreckage hit the building between the first and second floors.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#186. To: Red Jones (#182)
you're right about that. but is it so easy to believe that a pilot in a remote location could put the plane inches off the ground and put it into the 1'st floor like that.
#187. To: TooConservative (#183)
And the plane did, as I've said, penetrate all five rings. In this section of the Pentagon, renovations were five days from completion for its new steel underframe, a project which had been underway for the entire Pentagon since the mid-Nineties.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#188. To: TooConservative, Red Jones (#186)
Admittedly, it would be difficult to do the hacked thing but I find it far more plausible and doable than the Geico caveman or a remote piloting job. Remote piloting would require several milliseconds of lag, time you just don't have.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#189. To: TooConservative (#183)
It left a scar on the lawn. The plane hit the ground and bounced, the collapsing plane exploding as its wreckage hit the building between the first and second floors.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#190. To: FormerLurker (#185)
If the plane had hit the lawn, it would have blown up on the lawn and never penetrated the building. It would have sprayed burning jet fuel EVERYWHERE, including the lawn itself.
#191. To: FormerLurker (#187)
Did you know that aircraft are basically egg shells made of aluminum? Do you know what happens to an egg when you throw it into a lawn? Do you know what happens if you throw that egg into a brick wall?
#192. To: FormerLurker (#189)
no plane, bump
#193. To: FormerLurker, GreyLmist, wudidiz (#158)
Silverstein was bright enough, and savvy enough, as a real estate investor to not take on those two White Elephants to begin with.
#194. To: FormerLurker (#188)
I would say a remote takeover of the flight SYSTEMS is MUCH more likely, with human guidance on approach, perhaps computer assist on terminal approach.
#195. To: TooConservative, Original_Intent, Red Jones, Lod, wudidiz (#190)
Only if I allow you to repeal inertia. The wings might have remained intact enough to hold up after the bounce until they hit the steel-reinforced concrete (steel reinforcement was five days from completion supposedly).
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#196. To: TooConservative (#194)
Then you (not me) have to start arguing with the Truther pilots who don't believe in the Caveman pilot. I'll again stay with hacked autopilot, at least a device fast enough to react in the milliseconds required over the seconds that plane flew so low before impact.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#197. To: TooConservative (#191)
You can "bounce" an egg off the ground, just like skipping a stone on water.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#198. To: FormerLurker (#195)
Any impact with the lawn where the momentum of the plane would have been abruptly stopped would have resulted in the wings being ripped off and tumbling into the building, and would have left a HUGE gash in the lawn itself, with fireballs of fuel burning everywhere between the point of impact and the Pentagon wall.
#199. To: FormerLurker (#197)
Put up a video on YouTube of you bouncing an egg off the ground, I'd like to see it done.
#200. To: TooConservative (#194)
I'll again stay with hacked autopilot, at least a device fast enough to react in the milliseconds required over the seconds that plane flew so low before impact.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#201. To: TooConservative (#199)
I do have a few of using an egg as a golf ball and as a baseball in fast-pitch. Would those do?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#202. To: TooConservative (#198)
Actually, I assume the bounce could cause the wings to start folding up.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#203. To: TooConservative (#194)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#204. To: TooConservative, wudidiz (#199)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#205. To: FormerLurker, Turtle (#203)
BTW, can you tell me how a 757 would fit into that little hole on the first floor?
I find that many people believe the plane (missile, whatever), hit the Pentagon head on. This is not true and it does become easier to visualize from this diagram imposed over a photo.
Look, look! Unbroken windows!
#206. To: All (#205)
#207. To: FormerLurker (#203)
can you tell me how a 757 would fit into that little hole on the first floor?
#208. To: TooConservative (#206)
#209. To: Cynicom (#208)
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