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Title: Former senator, engineers offer ‘proof’ of 9/11 controlled demolitions
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URL Source: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/ ... rs-911-controlled-demolitions/
Published: Sep 10, 2010
Author: Raw Story
Post Date: 2010-09-10 10:43:08 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 15338
Comments: 259
The nine-year-old body of 9/11 conspiracy theories includes many improbable (and sometimes contradictory) claims, everything from remote-controlled planes flying into the World Trade Center, to a missile hitting the Pentagon, to mass kidnappings of air passengers. But a group of more than 1,200 architects and engineers is building what it hopes is a scientifically sound argument about one 9/11 claim: That the World Trade Center buildings were destroyed not by fires caused by the airplane collisions, but by a controlled demolition. At a press conference in Washington DC, Thursday, the group Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth offered evidence "that all three WTC skyscrapers on September 11, 2001, in NYC were destroyed by explosive controlled demolition." The third building the group referred to was World Trade Center 7, a skyscraper that collapsed about eight hours after the main WTC towers fell. For many 9/11 "truthers," WTC7's collapse despite not being hit by a plane is the "smoking gun" proving that something other than airplanes brought down the towers. The WTC7 collapse was not addressed in the official 9/11 Commission report. "That building fell completely into its own footprint," blogger Andrew Steele told WKTV in Utica. "You can watch on YouTube yourself and use your own common sense. Even if you don't have a scientific background ... if you have two eyes, you can see that fire alone did not bring down that building." His claims, and those of the 1,270 architects and engineers who have signed on to the effort, were bolstered by the support of former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel, who said in a press release that "critically important evidence has come forward after the original government building reports were completed." Gravel has been concerned with the events of September 11, 2001, for some time now. He has called for an independent investigation into 9/11. "Unlike the first investigation, this commission should be granted subpoena power and full access to all governmental files and personnel," Gravel wrote. "George Bush should be forced to testify ALONE." San Francisco architect Richard Gage said the way the towers collapsed was consistent with a controlled demolition, not a chaotic structural collapse. "The official FEMA and NIST reports provide insufficient, contradictory, and fraudulent accounts of the circumstances of the towers' destruction," Gage said. "We are therefore calling for a grand jury investigation of NIST officials." But Gage added that "government investigators at the NIST have been forced to acknowledge the free-fall descent, an indicting fact, after being presented with analysis by AE911Truth petition signers." On its Web site, the architects' and engineers' group lists facts that suggest explosives were used to take down the towers. -- Rapid onset of "collapse" -- Sounds of explosions at ground floor - a second before the building's destruction -- Symmetrical "structural failure" -- through the path of greatest resistance -- at free-fall acceleration -- Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic dust clouds -- Expert corroboration from the top European Controlled Demolition professional -- FEMA finds rapid oxidation and intergranular melting on structural steel samples WTC7 exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire, i.e. -- Slow onset with large visible deformations -- Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, to the side most damaged by the fires) -- High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never "collapsed". Debunking9/11, a Web site devoted to disproving the claims of 9/11 "truthers," argues that no aircraft was needed to bring down WTC7, because "while building 7 wasn't hit by an airliner, it was hit by the large perimeter columns of the Tower collapse. It was 400 ft away but the towers were more than 1300 ft tall. As the tower peeled open, it easily tilted over to reach building 7." "Truthers" and debunkers have been arguing for years over whether the scant photographic evidence of WTC7's south side after the main towers' collapse shows enough damage to justify the building's collapse. "All the buildings just as far away from both towers as WTC7 were hit," Debunking9/11 asserts. "The others were either very short buildings which didn't have to support a massive load above or had no fire. Only Building 7 had unfought fires and the massive load of 40 stories above them." "Justice for all." What's wrong with calling for a transparent, internationally-supported investigation? I want to know what happened that day to all of those buildings, and I want the chain of events that happened up to their collapse. Don't care how ugly the truth is, I just want to know. Why is asking for an independent investigation so bad? I'm not an engineering expert, but ALL of the buildings collapsing (WTC 1, 2, 7) look just like every other controlled demolition video I've seen from around the world. The pieces of the day's events (NORAD, Bin Laden's family being sent out, etc) don't fit together right. It just smells fishy. Who got fired for not doing their job? Who went to jail for criminal negligence? People of authority responding "nothing to see here, move along" aren't helping convince me that what we're being told is the truth. I just want to see Justice. Isn't wanting "Justice for all" patriotic?
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#73. To: TooConservative (#69)
What evidence is there that 9/11 was perpetrated by the 19 named individuals? Hint: Some of them are still alive and well, and have been reported as such in the world press. The manuevers performed by the aircraft that day could NOT have been performed by somebody who never flew a jet in their lives, yet NONE of them had ever flown a jet, and not one of them was even a mediocre pilot.
The infamous 16' hole that some Truthers have made so much of is a goofball theory (peddled by con-men who know better IMO) and is one of these various MIHOP "theories" that is completely incredible outside the circles of the most gullible and conspiracy-minded Truthers. They create the impression that the 16' hole is in the outside wall of the Pentagon when it is actually a hole left several sections inside the Pentagon and the entire outer facade was demolished. Only a con-man could peddle this crap. But libmedia uses this to discredit all those who are dissatisfied with the 9/11 investigations, whether they call themselves Truthers or not. And that is many, perhaps a majority, of Americans who are dissatisfied with the completeness of the 9/11 Commission. One rapidly tires of "debating" people this stupid or gullible. Then they call you names, an "unbeliever" found like a snake in their midst. It actually becomes so comical you can't actually stay mad at them. This is why I normally don't even enter 9/11 threads but I recently made the mistake of making some comment when one of the Truthers had to drag a goofy pet theory onto a completely unrelated thread and now they keep dragging me to these threads. All that said, I don't believe for one second that we ever got anything like a full investigation of 9/11 and a proper explanation. And the fact that we didn't when the gooberment will spend millions on studies to find out how many college men wank off or investigating the sex life of Brazilian beetles or billions on Israel, fake "AIDS" in Africa, global hotting "science", etc. makes it clear that there was something that they definitely do not want us to know. It smells, big time. A stench even bigger than the laughable Warren Commission report.
I read a lot of the truth posts, comment on few or none, nothing to be gained by doing so. Absurdity is a lost cause on many.
BULLSHIT. Few if any actually saw anything hit the Pentagon, although many saw SOMETHING in the way of an aircraft pass over them or nearby, and many saw the aftermath. Fact is, there are TWO sets of witnesses. One group places the aircraft's approach from south of the nearby Citgo station, this is the official story's approach path. Thing is, the SECOND group of witnesses place the approach NORTH of the Citgo station. This group includes two Pentagon police officers, both of which were at two separate locations near the Citgo station that morning. This means there had to have been TWO aircraft which witnesses identified as Flight 77. At least one of them didn't hit the building, that much is obvious. As far as the accuracy of the "eye witness" testimony, one so-called witness stated that the plane's wing hit the ground and it tumbled into the Pentagon. No such thing happened, since there were no marks on the lawn and the damage to the Pentagon would be consistent with the flight path of an object traveling nose first. If it had tumbled, it would have exploded and broken up on the lawn and not penetrated the building. In fact, early reports indicate "no plane hit" the Pentagon...
You and TC live by that motto apparently, thing is, it's self fullfulling in both your cases.
on the morning of September 11'th, 2001 I heard a radio report right after the pentagon was hit. They let an alleged eye-witness talk for I think 30 seconds or so and that was very unusual so it caught my attention. This guy described how the commercial passenger jet was flying along and it was like the pilot saw the pentagon late and started diving for it. and to hit the pentagon he turned so that one wing-tip went down to the ground and the other up in the air, he actually said it was almost perpendicular to the ground. and he said it hit the pentagon like that. This was an elaborate description and it does not match the other 'eye-witness' versions. and this is what they fed us right after it happened. why would they do this? Because they expected that the hole in the pentagon would be narrow and they needed an explanation as to why the hole was not the full width of the jet's wings. But this plan went bad because for at least a few minutes the hole in the pentagon was only on the first & second floors. All the people on the first & second floors at point of impact were killed. the people above all lived. But within a few minutes the 3'rd, 4'th & 5'th floors collapsed. They expected all 5 floors to collapse right after impact and it did not happen. So their explanation didn't work and that is why we never heard it again. I don't put much stock in eye-witness reports in this case. because this is an intelligence operation. They can put up lots of eye-witness reports with people who work for the intelligence people. It means nothing. But the hole in the building means everything. That can't be faked. The hole was not wide enough for a commercial passenger jet. Therefore, it was not a commercial passenger jet. We should also remember that just 1-2 days prior Secretary Rumsfeld had given a press conference about the missing trillions of dollars. The accountants on the 2'nd floor were agitating and basically forced him into it. Then they were killed.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
One other thing. The impact area of the Pentagon is not wide enough to fit the wings. Where the wings would have hit the building there are unbroken windows, and no evidence of fire. If an actual 757 had hit the building, the wings would have exploded upon impact since that is where the fuel is stored, and there would have been a massive jet fuel fire on both sides of the entry hole. Nothing like that happened. Note that the windows in the left side of the image are still intact... that last photo you put up and your explanation more or less nails it. proof that the government/media's conspiracy theory on this is false. a photo won't lie. but an eye-witness will. a photo can be faked. but ordinary people and journalists took these photos. The photos don't match the official story. who you going to trust? The government/mass media - or your lying eyes?
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
In any major black op there are multiple important goals. The missing trillions is certainly one of those things that needed to go away, along with the SEC documents and evidence related to the Enron and Global Crossing investigations that were stored in WTC7. Silverstein was looking for a way out of the WTC as the towers were loaded with asbestos and were loosing money, and to strip them of the asbestos would have cost more money than they were worth. How tidy of a solution could he ask for, being that he walked away with billions of dollars in insurance money after the attacks. The "War on Terror", the invasion of Afghanistan in order to secure it for the Tran-Afghan pipeline, and the take over of Iraq were also major bennies for those on the receiving end of the gravy train. The "Patriot Act" was sitting and waiting for this very sort of thing. This was yet another important goal for the perps, in that they can now violate the safeguards incorporated in the US Constitution with impunity, all in the name of "keeping us safe".. Yep, I really have to wonder about those who believe 19 angry arabs did all this because they "hated our freedoms".
you're 100% right.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Anyway, I never said anything about WTC 7 falling because of unfought fires. I challenge you to find any remark I've made to that effect. I have said steadfastly that WTC 7 is the Truthers' strongest case, I have said that they should pursue that relentlessly because that is the weakest point in the supposed government investigation of 9/11. I think you can move public opinion in your direction with it, possibly even get a major new investigation opened and get access to more evidence. So you might want to stop making up stuff that I did not say and actually deal with the things that I do say. I did include the fireboat that was retired until it was brought out of retirement by those who bought it -- the Harvey. Glad you liked the report. You might want to take your own advice and stop making up stuff that I did not say and actually deal with the things that I do say. I said if you think WTC 7 fell from unfought fires, what's your explanation for that -- in light of the 3 fireboats on duty in the area. If you don't think it fell so and likely fell due to a controlled demolition of some sort, say what you think or just skip over the aspect I was focusing on about the fireboats so as to eliminate the broken water lines excuse from the downpour of lies we've been wading through to find the Truth. WTC 7 might be our strongest case but there's way more than that which needs to be investigated -- and regardless of opinions that it's kooky of us to multitask in areas of research that don't meet your standards of approval or whoever's.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Not only is the hole too small and the damage inconsistant with a 757 impacting that area of the building, but the fact is, even a professional pilot couldn't have flown a 757 at 500+ mph inches off the ground while keeping the wings straight and nose level. The idiot who supposedly did this impossible feat couldn't even land a single engine propeller driven airplane at normal landing speed, never mind skim the Pentagon lawn with a multi-engine jumbo jet at it's max speed, all without even scraping the lawn. Ground effect causes the plane to experience increased lift and would have forced the plane to climb. The only way to fight it is to decelerate to landing speed and point the nose down, yet the plane was flying over 500 mph and the nose was level, since if the nose had been down it would have left a crater at the wall, and the plane would have done a flip and broken up outside the Pentagon.
I think your analysis is very excellent. The pilots simply don't have the ability to put a 757 into the 1'st floor after flying parallel to the ground as described. and if you look at the last picture you put up, it shows the uncomfortable truth that originally right after impact in the first 30 seconds, the 2'nd floor hadn't even fallen down yet. and the opening was truly on the first floor only. they sent a missile into the first floor and it blew up. thats what happened. The passenger jet was diverted to Ohio and the people were taken, never to be seen again. Ohio local media reported on this story back when it happened.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
One other interesting aspect of this image can be seen to the left of the car. Notice how the fence is collapsed OUTWARDS rather than INWARDS. If a wing had taken that fence down, the fence would have been knocked down TOWARDS the Pentagon wall, not AWAY from it.
They create the impression that the 16' hole is in the outside wall of the Pentagon when it is actually a hole left several sections inside the Pentagon and the entire outer facade was demolished. Only a con-man could peddle this crap. But libmedia uses this to discredit all those who are dissatisfied with the 9/11 investigations, whether they call themselves Truthers or not. And that is many, perhaps a majority, of Americans who are dissatisfied with the completeness of the 9/11 Commission. One rapidly tires of "debating" people this stupid or gullible. Then they call you names, an "unbeliever" found like a snake in their midst. It actually becomes so comical you can't actually stay mad at them. This is why I normally don't even enter 9/11 threads but I recently made the mistake of making some comment when one of the Truthers had to drag a goofy pet theory onto a completely unrelated thread and now they keep dragging me to these threads. All that said, I don't believe for one second that we ever got anything like a full investigation of 9/11 and a proper explanation. And the fact that we didn't when the gooberment will spend millions on studies to find out how many college men wank off or investigating the sex life of Brazilian beetles or billions on Israel, fake "AIDS" in Africa, global hotting "science", etc. makes it clear that there was something that they definitely do not want us to know. It smells, big time. A stench even bigger than the laughable Warren Commission report. Oh, the irony...
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
lol hey, good to see you here :-)
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
What what? Geez Eric. Yeah. Here. On the board. lol
I was just saying hello and posting that link in one post. Killing two birds with one stone... Looks like a good site for anyone who wants to read it.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
that is a very excellent link.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Glad you like it. This one's interesting too, if you haven't seen it yet: Out.
Evidence? The video of it falling is evidence in itself you dweeb! Not to mention the nano-thermite found on the remains of the steel. What more evidence does your little brain need? An admission from the Mossad that they did it? Get lost you loser.
God is always good!
I love shoving a stick into a hornets nest. hehehehehehehehehehehe Christine will give me hell for it. The results and insults are ALWAYS PREDICTABLE. hehehehehe Merrily, merrily on my way. hehehehe
Not that I want to discuss it in detail but I've long mused that it would be quite possible for a single aircraft electronics technician familiar with the autopilot-GPS systems to hack out a program that could be uploaded into the aircraft systems by a terrorist in only a few moments (while an unskilled pilot held the stick steady in flight while safely thousands of feet in the air) and you could program the aircraft to fly quite precisely to its target, no expert human terminal guidance would be required. None. Hackers aren't that hard to find. These aircraft systems don't have a fraction of the security put into an iPad/iPhone/iPod or an Xbox or a PS3 yet the hackers manage to break those quite routinely despite the fact that they are protected against hacking by good hardware design and encryption keys in excess of 1024 bits. Even the original Xbox had 1024-bit encryption. Yet, despite the obvious facts about how you could reprogram the very sophisticated and capable guidance systems, Truthers insist on ranting endlessly that is isn't possible for those pilots to fly, especially the terminal phase, of these attacks. Yet there is another ready explanation: hacked guidance systems. They could have carried an ordinary device like a laptop or a cellphone or a even a calculator to do this. Recently, the PS3 was finally broken by the hackers who discovered that they could build a USB device with its own microcontroller that could be plugged into the USB port on the front of the PS3. This controller exploits the fact that, at boot time, the PS3 is vulnerable to its USB port which can (essentially) seize control of the PS3 and defeat all its other formidable protections against hacking. After they demonstrated the USB device and started selling them all over the world, they found other ways to do the same thing, including this technique they came up with last week to use a TI-84 calculator with a USB cable to hack their PS3's. (These are people who won't be happy until they can use a toaster to reprogram their PS3 and their cellphones.) And if you have 1.5B people and their talents to draw on, you have a lot of clever hackers and engineers. Then all you need is just one device to hack, even if it is in a cave in Af-Pak too. Then they take the cockpit and hold the stick steady while they reprogram the plane's autopilot and enable it to start it flying toward its destination. This way, you could make an airliner behave just like a missile. You could program it the autopilot to guide the plane into the Pentagon only a few feet off the ground, just as the video tapes (obtained by FOIA requests in 2006) showed the plane hitting the building. But of course, such obviously plausible ideas are not in vogue. Can't compete with nano-thermite, UFO technology, dark matter, antigravity, energy weapons and whatever new genius idea some Truther is peddling this week. And gooberment naturally would not this revealed but it would lead people to (rightly) question the security of all our vital systems from health care to the national power grid to our defense networks and all the rest. So one oft-debated aspect of 9/11 can be readily explained (including the gooberment's motivation for suppressing such disturbing information). In fact, the DIA is operating in suppressing all copies of this new book in exactly the way you would expect. I think the gooberment prefers us to think they're evil and/or LIHOPpy or MIHOPpy than realize just how incompetent they really are. Sorry I didn't hit Post, wrote this a couple of hours back but got called to lunch and autumn chores.
So do you at least admit the official story is a lie? If it's a lie, then what IS the truth, and why aren't we being told what that truth is? Why is there a massive disinformation campaign, such as blaming people who are still alive as being onboard those aircraft and committing suicide attacks? The physical evidence alone nullifies much of the "official story", yet that very evidence is called "conspiracy theory", where it's not a theory, it's a fact.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Problem with that theory is several fold. First off, the NTSB reports that the autopilot was turned off as Flight 77 approached Washington DC. Secondly, it is not obvious HOW to enable or disable autopilot, it is a function of the flight management computer. Hani Hanjour, the alleged "pilot", never trained on a 757 simulator, nor was he even capable of flying a Cessna, let alone a multi-engine jumbo jet. Finally, not even a highly trained professional pilot can negate the laws of physics and aerodynamics, and not only did the plane fly too low at too high of a speed to be able to hit the Pentagon nose first and flying level, but there is no evidence that a 757 hit the Pentagon since the windows aren't broken where the wings would have struck at 500+ mph. My hypothesis includes the following theories; a) The crews and passengers of all "hijacked" aircraft were subdued and/or neutralized with chemical agents such as nerve gas pumped into the ventilation systems. b) The planes were taken over by remote control, as you suggest. c) Regardless of whether the actual "hijacked" planes struck the World Trade Center towers, or some other specially equipped aircraft made to LOOK like those hijacked planes, they weren't being flown by "angry arabs", some of whom are still alive to this day. d) Whatever struck the Pentagon was NOT a 757, thus NOT Flight 77. What it comes down to is that the "official" story is pure BS, and the media as well as the government are complicit in the ONGOING coverup.
If you can accept that premise, then what follows is a step into "truther" land, whether you want to take that step or not. There is the philosophical difference. I require evidence to accept these theories, some of which are ludicrous. Some of the rest of you simply say the offered explanation is ludicrous therefore you can just make up shit, however ridiculous. You have to have a standard for evidence, for falsifiability. If you abandon that, you end up with a cause but no science to back. This happens over and over in fields like anthropology or sociology or climatology (global hotting) or evolution. If your beliefs cannot be falsified or proven by evidence, you have a religion, not science. I recommend reading the science philosopher, Karl Popper, who makes it quite clear what is and is not science based on the sound standard of empirical falsifiability. If you don't understand the difference, you can never convince intelligent modern people that your ideas are valid. This is one reason why the global hotting scammers failed. Fundamentally flawed and unfalsifiable "science". You have to have replicable evidence, plausibility, elimination of alternative explanations, etc. And most of all, you must discard theories once they are proven false (a key sign of scamming). Otherwise, you end up with something like a religious belief, not science. Hell, you guys should love Popper, brilliant man who was the son of ex-Jewish Christian parents.
I admit ONLY to having a lot of fun with wud and the others that have a sense of humor. If he complains to Christine I will be banned and a tin can tied to my tail.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Now there is the usefulness of that event. One more step to getting the people to accept the yoke, all in the name of security.
That was never an "official" video. It was not obtained through the FOIA, it was supposedly "leaked". It is obvious that it's a CGI animation, in that there is no debris being scattered into the air such as a real impact would have caused. Also, the video from those cameras which WOULD have captured the actual approach of the aircraft have never been released. Here's the viewpoint THOSE cameras would have had... The autopilot or another hackable system could be hacked for this. But he could have held the stick while the autopilot and one or more flight control computers were reprogrammed. These devices undoubtedly use solid-state memory for their OS (flashable memory) like your computer or cellphone do. But a reprogrammed autopilot could certainly do so. These planes have exceptionally sophisticated autopilot systems and the flight characteristics of these aircraft are extremely well-documented. Again, some of this would require access to internal data from the aircraft manufacturer but much of it could be computed manually or drawn from sources at maintenance depots. I have considered this (or just causing the cabin pressure and emergency air supply to fail, smothering the crew and passengers and possibly even the hijackers as well. The problem is that you probably want the terrorist with minimal piloting skills to remain alive to the last moment so he could re-target the aircraft to a very large and impressive target if he realized the hacked autopilot could not hit the target accurately. And then you would have to fake the cell phone calls from the passengers and so on. No, it gets too complicated, not plausible. Not remotely. Hacked with a portable kit, maybe in a cellphone or iPod, carried onboard by the terrorists. Prove it. Produce these terrorists. Not vague rumors or scanty and unsubstantiated reports from goofball newspapers in the Third World. I require evidence when you make these claims. And since you guys have already discredited yourselves with these claims so many times already, don't post 20 of your crappy homemade YouTubes and then get mad because I won't give you hours of my life just to view the same bilge you've tried to pawn off for years. I believe the evidence supports that it was Flight 77. I've read all these objections that it wasn't a 757 and I find them ridiculous. Moreover, you ignore that these airliners could be autopiloted with high reliability so why would you send a missile that you would have to risk wouldn't pass muster as a fake airliner when you could just send the airliner? You'd have to kill or disappear the passengers or crew anyway and you'd have to take a chance that even if flying under radar, some pilot or bystander would notice you flying or landing that 757 at an airbase or crashing it into a lake or whatever and you'd still have to obliterate the evidence. It makes no sense at all, not that that bothers most Truthers a bit. Some of you don't realize that when you mix plausible or possible explanations and alternative theories with wild conspiracy theories that make no sense, it discredits even the questions raised that are valid. This is the kind of thing where you can be your own worst enemy when it comes to convincing people of your theories in numbers large enough to make a difference. BTW, I believe that some of the Truther celebs and leaders are con-men and are likely in the pay of FBI/CIA/etc. simply to discredit the entire Truther movement. Classic agentes provocateurs, FBI style. Very useful and flexible tactics to use against unsophisticated opponents.
I sought of doubt that. I can see the tin can part, but I don't think you'd get banned...
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThis is essentially another false numbers idea that is popular but entirely false.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#74. To: Cynicom (#71)
A few days ago I reread the eyewitness accounts of the people present at the Pentagon crash. They ranged from Americans to foreign tourists, from ranking military employees to out of work janitors, all with ONE thing in common, THEY HAPPENED TO BE NEAR OR PASSING THE PENTAGON WHEN THEY SAW AN ....AMERICAN AIRLINES...AIRCRAFT PASS BY AND HIT THE PENTAGON.
#75. To: TooConservative (#74)
#76. To: TooConservative, Cynicom (#74)
(Edited)
THEY HAPPENED TO BE NEAR OR PASSING THE PENTAGON WHEN THEY SAW AN ....AMERICAN AIRLINES...AIRCRAFT PASS BY AND HIT THE PENTAGON.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#77. To: Cynicom (#75)
Absurdity is a lost cause on many.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#78. To: Cynicom, TooConservative, FormerLurker, *9-11* (#75)
One rapidly tires of "debating" people this stupid or gullible.
#79. To: FormerLurker (#76)
(Edited)
#80. To: TooConservative (#74)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#81. To: FormerLurker (#80)
#82. To: Red Jones (#79)
We should also remember that just 1-2 days prior Secretary Rumsfeld had given a press conference about the missing trillions of dollars. The accountants on the 2'nd floor were agitating and basically forced him into it. Then they were killed.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#83. To: FormerLurker (#82)
#84. To: TooConservative (#70)
(Edited)
thought you included the retired fireboat too. That is a nice little story about that boat.
#85. To: Red Jones (#81)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#86. To: FormerLurker (#85)
#87. To: Red Jones (#81)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#88. To: TooConservative, Cynicom, FormerLurker, Red Jones, GreyLmist (#74)
The infamous 16' hole that some Truthers have made so much of is a goofball theory (peddled by con-men who know better IMO) and is one of these various MIHOP "theories" that is completely incredible outside the circles of the most gullible and conspiracy-minded Truthers.
#89. To: *9-11*, TooConservative, All (#88)
One rapidly tires of "debating" people this stupid or gullible.
#90. To: wudidiz (#89)
#91. To: Eric Stratton (#90)
#92. To: wudidiz (#91)
#93. To: Eric Stratton (#92)
#94. To: Eric Stratton (#92)
#95. To: TooConservative (#65)
#96. To: wudidiz (#91)
#97. To: wudidiz (#94)
#98. To: wudidiz (#94)
#99. To: Red Jones, *9-11* (#96)
that is a very excellent link.
#100. To: All (#99)
#101. To: TooConservative (#65)
I'm open to it. I just require evidence
#102. To: wudidiz (#99)
#103. To: FormerLurker, christine, Cynicom (#73)
The manuevers performed by the aircraft that day could NOT have been performed by somebody who never flew a jet in their lives, yet NONE of them had ever flown a jet, and not one of them was even a mediocre pilot.
#104. To: Cynicom (#102)
I love shoving a stick into a hornets nest. hehehehehehehehehehehe
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#105. To: FormerLurker (#104)
#106. To: TooConservative (#103)
Not that I want to discuss it in detail but I've long mused that it would be quite possible for a single aircraft electronics technician familiar with the autopilot-GPS systems to hack out a program that could be uploaded into the aircraft systems by a terrorist in only a few moments (while an unskilled pilot held the stick steady in flight while safely thousands of feet in the air) and you could program the aircraft to fly quite precisely to its target, no expert human terminal guidance would be required. None.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#107. To: ghostdogtxn (#95)
The collapse of WTC7 itself is evidence. It was filmed from several angles, and it makes no sense at all that it fell from fire or airplane parts.
#108. To: FormerLurker (#104)
So do you at least admit the official story is a lie?
#109. To: TooConservative (#107)
#110. To: ghostdogtxn (#109)
Unfortunately, since the official myth of that day has been used to justify all kinds of shit, from me being frisked/fondled at the airport to the predator droning of some poor-ass thirteen year old bedouin shepherd on some mountain in some stan or another
#111. To: TooConservative (#103)
You could program it the autopilot to guide the plane into the Pentagon only a few feet off the ground, just as the video tapes (obtained by FOIA requests in 2006) showed the plane hitting the building.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#112. To: FormerLurker (#106)
First off, the NTSB reports that the autopilot was turned off as Flight 77 approached Washington DC.
Secondly, it is not obvious HOW to enable or disable autopilot, it is a function of the flight management computer. Hani Hanjour, the alleged "pilot", never trained on a 757 simulator, nor was he even capable of flying a Cessna, let alone a multi-engine jumbo jet.
Finally, not even a highly trained professional pilot can negate the laws of physics and aerodynamics, and not only did the plane fly too low at too high of a speed to be able to hit the Pentagon nose first and flying level, but there is no evidence that a 757 hit the Pentagon since the windows aren't broken where the wings would have struck at 500+ mph.
a) The crews and passengers of all "hijacked" aircraft were subdued and/or neutralized with chemical agents such as nerve gas pumped into the ventilation systems.
b) The planes were taken over by remote control, as you suggest.
c) Regardless of whether the actual "hijacked" planes struck the World Trade Center towers, or some other specially equipped aircraft made to LOOK like those hijacked planes, they weren't being flown by "angry arabs", some of whom are still alive to this day.
d) Whatever struck the Pentagon was NOT a 757, thus NOT Flight 77.
#113. To: Cynicom (#108)
If he complains to Christine I will be banned and a tin can tied to my tail.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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