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Title: Former senator, engineers offer ‘proof’ of 9/11 controlled demolitions
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URL Source: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/ ... rs-911-controlled-demolitions/
Published: Sep 10, 2010
Author: Raw Story
Post Date: 2010-09-10 10:43:08 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 14744
Comments: 259
The nine-year-old body of 9/11 conspiracy theories includes many improbable (and sometimes contradictory) claims, everything from remote-controlled planes flying into the World Trade Center, to a missile hitting the Pentagon, to mass kidnappings of air passengers. But a group of more than 1,200 architects and engineers is building what it hopes is a scientifically sound argument about one 9/11 claim: That the World Trade Center buildings were destroyed not by fires caused by the airplane collisions, but by a controlled demolition. At a press conference in Washington DC, Thursday, the group Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth offered evidence "that all three WTC skyscrapers on September 11, 2001, in NYC were destroyed by explosive controlled demolition." The third building the group referred to was World Trade Center 7, a skyscraper that collapsed about eight hours after the main WTC towers fell. For many 9/11 "truthers," WTC7's collapse despite not being hit by a plane is the "smoking gun" proving that something other than airplanes brought down the towers. The WTC7 collapse was not addressed in the official 9/11 Commission report. "That building fell completely into its own footprint," blogger Andrew Steele told WKTV in Utica. "You can watch on YouTube yourself and use your own common sense. Even if you don't have a scientific background ... if you have two eyes, you can see that fire alone did not bring down that building." His claims, and those of the 1,270 architects and engineers who have signed on to the effort, were bolstered by the support of former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel, who said in a press release that "critically important evidence has come forward after the original government building reports were completed." Gravel has been concerned with the events of September 11, 2001, for some time now. He has called for an independent investigation into 9/11. "Unlike the first investigation, this commission should be granted subpoena power and full access to all governmental files and personnel," Gravel wrote. "George Bush should be forced to testify ALONE." San Francisco architect Richard Gage said the way the towers collapsed was consistent with a controlled demolition, not a chaotic structural collapse. "The official FEMA and NIST reports provide insufficient, contradictory, and fraudulent accounts of the circumstances of the towers' destruction," Gage said. "We are therefore calling for a grand jury investigation of NIST officials." But Gage added that "government investigators at the NIST have been forced to acknowledge the free-fall descent, an indicting fact, after being presented with analysis by AE911Truth petition signers." On its Web site, the architects' and engineers' group lists facts that suggest explosives were used to take down the towers. -- Rapid onset of "collapse" -- Sounds of explosions at ground floor - a second before the building's destruction -- Symmetrical "structural failure" -- through the path of greatest resistance -- at free-fall acceleration -- Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic dust clouds -- Expert corroboration from the top European Controlled Demolition professional -- FEMA finds rapid oxidation and intergranular melting on structural steel samples WTC7 exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire, i.e. -- Slow onset with large visible deformations -- Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, to the side most damaged by the fires) -- High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never "collapsed". Debunking9/11, a Web site devoted to disproving the claims of 9/11 "truthers," argues that no aircraft was needed to bring down WTC7, because "while building 7 wasn't hit by an airliner, it was hit by the large perimeter columns of the Tower collapse. It was 400 ft away but the towers were more than 1300 ft tall. As the tower peeled open, it easily tilted over to reach building 7." "Truthers" and debunkers have been arguing for years over whether the scant photographic evidence of WTC7's south side after the main towers' collapse shows enough damage to justify the building's collapse. "All the buildings just as far away from both towers as WTC7 were hit," Debunking9/11 asserts. "The others were either very short buildings which didn't have to support a massive load above or had no fire. Only Building 7 had unfought fires and the massive load of 40 stories above them." "Justice for all." What's wrong with calling for a transparent, internationally-supported investigation? I want to know what happened that day to all of those buildings, and I want the chain of events that happened up to their collapse. Don't care how ugly the truth is, I just want to know. Why is asking for an independent investigation so bad? I'm not an engineering expert, but ALL of the buildings collapsing (WTC 1, 2, 7) look just like every other controlled demolition video I've seen from around the world. The pieces of the day's events (NORAD, Bin Laden's family being sent out, etc) don't fit together right. It just smells fishy. Who got fired for not doing their job? Who went to jail for criminal negligence? People of authority responding "nothing to see here, move along" aren't helping convince me that what we're being told is the truth. I just want to see Justice. Isn't wanting "Justice for all" patriotic?
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#151. To: RickyJ (#150)
Aluminum military planes?
While he may not have been exactly in the know he was likely directed to buy the leases. Probably because he is a Sayanim. And a couple billion in insurance money buys a lot of silence. A teacher's union oddly turned up in searches for insurance on the WTC towers but I'm still trying to figure out how he could insure leased properties for so much. If they had been leased cars, I would think the owner of them would get paid the big bucks, not a leaseholder. He owned WTC 7 but the Port Authority owned the other buildings.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
You can keep repeating this but I don't believe you can prove it. I'm repeating the reported flight characteristics of the alleged hijacked aircraft. What part of it don't you understand or comprehend? Tell me, if you have an airliner at 20,000 feet and your pilot points the nose downward at the ground, you will hit the ground, won't you? Yeah sure, so what? That's not what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11. Let's say you pin the plane into a nosedive. We can agree that you will hit the ground, there once you are below a certain altitude, say 4000-5000 feet, there is no chance you can pull out because the inertia is too great. Again, so what? Nothing to do with what we're talking about. So would it work the same if you only aimed at the ground with a 45-degree approach angle. Yes. But you could pull out of the dive a little longer. So what? Same applies at 20-degree angle. Or 10 or 5. Now you're getting ridiculous. The real problem I have with this is that denying an airliner can hit a building in this way relies on the removal of inertia as a factor. And I do demand that Truthers aren't allowed to repeal the fundamental laws of physics. Next thing you know, they'll toss entropy on the bonfire and the whole universe will go poof. LOL. Now you've gone from ridiculous to hypocritical. First off, the aircraft which is alleged to have been Flight 77 (NOBODY can tell for sure since the transponder was off and they only picked up the radar return after having somehow lost it completely from radar between Ohio and Washington), performed a sharp descending turn which many at Dulles Air Traffic Control assumed was a military aircraft by the way it manuevered. It turned AWAY from the side of the Pentagon where the high value targets were (such as Rumsfeld's office), where it could have easily DOVE into the Pentagon and exploded all over the roof, spreading flaming fuel over a good portion of the complex. It would have been INFINITELY easier to simply dive into a structure the area of 28 or so football fields, than to perform precision manuevers and line up to hit a 77 foot high wall at ground level. Yet that is what is CLAIMED to have happened. The aircraft is reported to have come out of it's final turn after having descended to tree top level, then picked up airspeed for about a mile before impacting the Pentagon. At 500 mph, the amount of time necessary to clear the trees and structures near the Pentagon would have left a fraction of a second before reaching the Pentagon itself, yet within that time it found a way to descend, overcome ground effect, and keep the nose level with the wings straight (since neither engine nor wingtip hit the lawn), and penetrate at ground level straight into the Pentagon (at an angle of course, but straight in as far as pitch). That is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. You can talk about diving from 20,000 feet all you want, yet that is NOT what happened even in terms of the OFFICIAL story, and in terms of physical damage to the Pentagon itself. That, and there was no fuel spread over the external walls as there would have been, and no damage to glass windows where wings allegedly struck them at 500+ mph. Now take your own advice and stop trying to suspend the laws of physics to make your pet theory workable.
I think TC has seen one too many episodes of 24, where the "bad guys" have infinite resources and can scoop up a nuclear weapons expert on a whim and have a nuke built for them on demand within hours, as long as they have the nuclear material. I sort of doubt airliners have USB ports that access the flight management computer for ANY reason, especially not in terms of a maintainance port which could be used to reflash the entire system, as if that were even possibile to do while in flight. As far as what the reflash would do, it'd have to introduce an entirely new application into the system, override the normal operation, and that application would need to have intimate knowledge of the existing interfaces and IO ports, and not only access them directly and correctly, but have exacting precision in how it controlled the aircraft, especially in its terminal phase. How would such an application be tested? Hell, it takes more than a few tries to get highly sophisticated missile software to function correctly, where the first few firings don't usually go well. Can you imagine some cave dwellers doing all this on their laptops while smoking hash, and getting it perfect not just for one aircraft, but for FOUR? Like I said, there is very little chance of there even BEING an accessbile interface such as USB anywhere in the cockpit, never mind the rest. Or maybe they put one in just in case a terrorist wants to reprogram the flight computer, you never know... LOL
You need access to the physical device in order to even TRY to understand it, never mind figure a way to hack it. Having an iPod in your possession allows you to try all sorts of tricks between the PC and the device itself. Having an Internet connection allows access to ANY other machine on the Internet, and the protocols are widely published. They are exploitable by those with intimate knowledge of those protocols. However, the hardware architecture of a Boeing flight management computer is NOT pubished, nor are its operating system interfaces, application programming interfaces, nor actual operational control interfaces. You'd need to basically have a 757 at your disposal, ALL the manuals for the hardware, firmware, and software, intimate knowledge of the navigational systems, flight control systems, and a guided missile program control background to achieve what you're suggesting. That's if a foreign application could even fit in memory or access the existing application in order to prevent it from doing what it normally does, and guide the aircraft as if it were a cruise missile.
Or maybe it was some Jew technicians. They DID have cameras set up to record the planes hitting the towers before the planes hit you know, and jumped for joy when they did hit.
A "reflashable CPU" eh? What would be the purpose of reflashing a CPU? How many ways of doing ANDs, ORs, ADD, SUBs, and JMPs would make a difference?
While he may not have been exactly in the know he was likely directed to buy the leases. Probably because he is a Sayanim. And a couple billion in insurance money buys a lot of silence. I'm sure Silverstein knows a great deal about what happened that day, and more than likely is on the "committee" which oversaw the attacks themselves. Besides being a major beneficiary of the attacks, he would have needed to be in on the operation in order to allow the towers to be wired up with explosives. I doubt it would have happened under his nose without his knowledge.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
I can't explain it. But I don't accept the feds' explanation at all. I don't make up crazy shit if I don't know. I say that I don't know. This actually does make it possible to learn something.
I think it will be half indy voters along with the conservative segment of the DE GOP. I expect Castle may ignore the primary and then run as a write-in. O'Donnell did exactly this in 2006 after she lost the GOP primary so she can't cry foul. If they can talk him into it, I think Castle would win as a write-in. The sheer controversy and his 40-year political relationship with voters in both parties could push him over the top as a write-in. And the RNC has nothing to lose since they know the seat is otherwise lost. NRSC took the step of cutting off any money to her. Castle conceded but refuses to make a single statement of support for her. Something is cooking, probably analysis of the election returns to determine if he has a real shot of winning as a write-in.
Many modern microcontrollers contain their own RAM and flashable "ROM". The chips often have a fusing feature so that once you update it, you can burn a "fuse" (flashable memory location) permanently which locks the ability to reprogram the CPU or read out its code. Unless you have a professional lab. You can find these CPUs with internal RAM and flash ROM and I/O ports. All the ARMs and many PICs and similar devices are available with these features. We are way past the old 6502/6800/Z80/68330/8052/80186 and other CPUs that used to be used in industrial applications but which required so much more support circuitry. A single-chip is so much more economical and reliable. 6502? Edit: forgot. 6502 used ADC, not ADD. I guess your mnemonics are ambiguous enough I can't tell which CPU(s) you studied.
A black box is a black box. And nothing is unhackable if you have a lab and the right talent. In the end, you still have the flight charactistics and physical properties of the aircraft, you would have the pilots manuals and the technical notes from the manufacturer (available at their depots), and you only have to control the throttle and the control surfaces. This is actually far far easier to program than guided missiles.
In general terms, I would say that it is a mistake to focus on who. First you demonstrate the facts don't support the gooberment explanation. Then you force a new investigation. Then you go after Them (CIA or DIA or Iran/Hezbollah or al-Qaeda or Mossad). The who of it should be ignored until the how of it is resolved. The constant government refrain that al-Qaeda is never associated with any government for any reason is suspicious. Of course, they are associated with governments, especially the Saudis. They take refuge in Wahhabist countries like Sudan and Af-Pak. So I find this idea that al-Qaeda never gets gooberment help about as suspicious as the idea that, for instance, a completely inexperienced pilot held an airliner at treetop at 500mph for miles.
I recall a number of years ago, back when GPS and automated guidance were becoming standard equipment on airliners, there was a flight in Alaska that was on autopilot and barely missed flying directly into a mountain. The news reported that that error in the programming had been updated on all planes flying in the area. They made it clear that it was an internal programming error. To do this, you have to be able to reflash the computers. You know, you even reflash various computerized subsystems on combines and tractors and big sprayers. You can press buttons in sequence and a hex monitor appears on the instrument readout and you can enter data or code in hex. I know some JD guys and they often use factory manual tricks to, for instance, force a tractor with a bad transmission to go into gear so they can get it out of the field and onto a truck to go to the JD dealer for repair. This kind of technology is very very common. Aircraft are not fundamentally different. In addition, you need a capability of fixing any computer-related problem in an aircraft quickly after a crash or near-miss.
I have always assumed the Pentagon has defenses against such an attack, the same way the WH does and many military bases. So only an attack coming in below radar would be expected to succeed. Now who is being silly. Assuming "treetop" is less than 50 feet, executing a sharp turn would put the wings hitting trees or buildings as you turn the plane since the wing would dip downward, the sharper the turn the more it dips. You also have an absolute confidence in these instruments which are not necessarily designed to be at their most accurate at ground level. Certainly radar gets flaky near the ground. And if it was a missile, how did they make the plane "disappear"? How did they keep people from seeing it pass at treetop? Where did they land it? How did they hide it? Etc.? I think my explanations, imperfect as they are, are still more plausible than what you're offering. But relying on the data we have at this point may be a mistake. We don't have any kind of independent study of the data and lack some information on the systems themselves under extreme conditions like flying at such high speed so near the ground.
So then it couldn't have been a 757.
Where did it "land"? Ask those who would know. You might start with Cheney, then perhaps Rumsfeld. I'm sure they'll fill you in if you simply ask them. First off, as I earlier reported, there were apparently TWO aircraft. One took a southerly approach, which is the "official" flight path, and other a more northerly approach, which credibile witnesses state was in fact an American Airlines 757. It's highly probable that the drone (more than likely painted like an AA jet) is what took the southerly route, and is what impacted the Pentagon. Another aircraft, which could well have been Flight 77, approached at the same time and flew OVER the Pentagon as the other object impacted, hiding behind the smoke caused by that impact.
Your explanations rely on magical thinking, where laws of physics are violated, and actual evidence is either tossed out or ignored. The wings and fuel disappeared in order for your story to make sense, and a gang of cave dwellers took an iPod, plugged it into the cockpit, and made it fly like a cruise missile. Oh, and the people who performed these superhuman feats rose from the dead, since at least some of them are still alive. If you want to read what a real pilot and aeronautical engineer has to say about all this, read the following link... 9/11-The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training
Or the instruments and local radar aren't designed for such accuracy at such a low level over a metro area. I would also want to see an expert independent evaluation of the data including the flight recorders and the ground radar readings from the plane. There are also eyewitnesses who say they saw the plane. I prefer my hacked autopilot account primarily because it eliminates the need for an untrained pilot to perform expert flight maneuvers at treetop but does not require a substitute missile and the disposal of the 757 and its crew (and keeping any witnesses from seeing or instruments from recording what really happened to the plane and people after the missile was substituted along the flight path).
So what happened to the wings and the fuel? Did Allah make them disappear?
The flight path is described as follows from the author of the link I just gave you; The maneuver was in fact so precisely executed that the air traffic controllers at Dulles refused to believe the blip on their screen was a commercial airliner. Danielle O’Brian, one of the air traffic controllers at Dulles who reported seeing the aircraft at 9:25 said, “The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane.” (http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=4084) And then, all of a sudden we have magic. Voila! Hanjour finds the Pentagon sitting squarely in his sights right before him. But even that wasn’t good enough for this fanatic Muslim kamikaze pilot. You see, he found that his “missile” was heading towards one of the most densely populated wings of the Pentagon—and one occupied by top military brass, including the Secretary of Defense, Rumsfeld. Presumably in order to save these men’s lives, he then executes a sweeping 270-degree turn and approaches the building from the opposite direction and aligns himself with the only wing of the Pentagon that was virtually uninhabited due to extensive renovations that were underway (there were some 120 civilians construction workers in that wing who were killed; their work included blast-proofing the outside wall of that wing). on top of all the other impossible things about the official story we're supposed to believe that an inexperienced person piloted that plane. the guy was not a professional pilot and had no real experience even landing a jet like this big passenger jet. and he performs maneuvers that experienced pilots say are nearly impossible.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
There are conflicting reports as to the altitude of the aircraft when it began the 270 degree turn. Many say 7000 feet, where the author of the article I linked assumed ground level. It would of course be more likely that it was at 7000 feet. do you really believe that the forces in government that did this sept 11'th crime can't come up with eye-witnesses to speak? They can come up with witnesses including the air traffic controllers, but the physical evidence from the crash aftermath indicates that their story is a lie.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Interesting info. It does not preclude my scenario. And my explanation of a hacked autopilot is still far more conceivable than untrained pilots performing such maneuvers. With full control over the plane's control surfaces on a millisecond basis, one could cause a crash by altering the flight characteristics in the last few tenths of a second prior to impact. Again, this is the kind of thing that no aircraft designer would ever test for because they would never expect any airliner to be flown in this way. My explanation still beats the expert-caveman-pilot scenario even if you don't happen to care for it.
do you really think that a new 'independent' study group will be able to put a magnifying glass up to the photos and magically find the wreckage from the passenger jet. Look at the pictures man, the wreckage is not there. You don't need an 'independent' study to look at this. You should trust your own eyes. also, you should be able to comprehend that the ruling regime including our government and mass media both have lied to us and acted maliciously against us at Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma City and elsewhere. The government lies, acts maliciously with extreme harm to our people, the media lies and covers up. this is their pattern of behavior over time. and that pattern means nothing to you? You still follow them? at some point you have to ask yourself if you are being righteously patriotic or stupidly psychotic?
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
It would of course be more likely that it was at 7000 feet. Again, underlining my point about just how reliable some of this data really is. I am especially suspicious of radar and flight recorder data at treetop. No way did they design their system primarily for that situation since the designers will generally assume that the plane is already lost if it is that close to the ground and not over a runway landing at the proper speed. For just one example, how often have they tested these airliners flying that low to the ground, that fast, and with their landing gear up? I don't think they do that much if at all, though they might simulate it on computers or in a wind tunnel. Can your Truth pilots say they know that much about flying a plane at 500mph with the gear up at treetop? I know they are really well-trained but I would be very surprised if that is a focus of their training. That would be an example of the kind of thing that would get them fired.
Can't I be both rigtheously patriotic and stupidly psychotic at the same time? I'm willing to try, just for you, Red. And you probably wonder why your former friends and relatives feverishly try to change the subject if you start talking about That Day.
Your "hacked autopilot" is about as likely as Hanjour being blessed by Allah with the superhuman power to fly the aircraft better than a pro, for the host of reasons I've already gone over. It still doesn't explain the following, even if it were possible; A) The aircraft could not have descended to ground level from 50 feet high in a fraction of a second while maintaining a neutral pitch (ie. keeping the nose level). B) The section of the Pentagon where the left wing should have impacted still had intact glass windows, and no external fuel fire from the exploding fuel tank located inside the wing. C) You have no explanation for the second aircraft witnessed by credible witnesses, including two Pentagon police officers. Even IF an instant descent to the correct altitude were possible, the plane would not have STOPPED descending (due to inertia) quick enough to avoid crashing into the Pentagon lawn.
Well, that has been my point! The hacked autopilot eliminates the need for the Geico Caveman flying an airliner at treetop. It's not a perfect explanation but it eliminates at least some of the problems with the official account.
you're right about that. but is it so easy to believe that a pilot in a remote location could put the plane inches off the ground and put it into the 1'st floor like that. Even from a remote location - a pretty daring way to fly. Planes jump up and down by themselves when coming in for a landing. it would be so easy to crash if they tried what they allegedly did. Many people are like you - they do not trust the official version, but they don't buy the ideas that government did this themselves. I think it was an inside job. the people who rule us are evil. they are not incompetent, they are evil. they do bad things to us and to others on purpose.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
It left a scar on the lawn. The plane hit the ground and bounced, the collapsing plane exploding as its wreckage hit the building between the first and second floors. And the plane did, as I've said, penetrate all five rings. In this section of the Pentagon, renovations were five days from completion for its new steel underframe, a project which had been underway for the entire Pentagon since the mid-Nineties. The Pentagon wasn't too well built and was sort of a rush job originally and they had to do something to reinforce the entire structure. Perhaps you already know about the renovation project.
The accounts of tree top level altitude are from various witnesses. What is certain is that Dulles Air Traffic control located a stray blip on their radar and they assumed it was the airliner which disappeared from radar somewhere over Ohio. What is also fairly certain is the flight path it took once visible on radar indicates it made a rapidly descending 270 degree turn, starting at 7000 feet, and ending up near ground level.
Pure bullshit on your part. Even the government doesn't make that claim. The entry point is a clean hit, and there is NO scaring of the lawn AT ALL. If the plane had hit the lawn, it would have blown up on the lawn and never penetrated the building. It would have sprayed burning jet fuel EVERYWHERE, including the lawn itself. You are desparate to keep your story from falling apart aren't you.
I don't think you could remotely pilot it that way. A human being cannot react in a few milliseconds. Even a computer, though fast enough, is hard to program. Admittedly, it would be difficult to do the hacked thing but I find it far more plausible and doable than the Geico caveman or a remote piloting job. Remote piloting would require several milliseconds of lag, time you just don't have. The pilots who argue against the Caveman do make a good case against human piloting but not machine control. I'll readily admit my explanation still has some problems. Just not nearly as many as the Caveman.
You are thinking as if this thing was a solid chunk of lead, which not only can fly like a needle in a hurricane, perform like a cruise missle and dart about like a mosquito, but it can crash into the lawn, bounce (at over 500 mph), shoot directly into the first floor of the Pentagon, penetrating a blast proof wall, and pierce through 5 separate rings of the building. Did you know that aircraft are basically egg shells made of aluminum? Do you know what happens to an egg when you throw it into a lawn? Do you know what happens if you throw that egg into a brick wall?
I would say a remote takeover of the flight SYSTEMS is MUCH more likely, with human guidance on approach, perhaps computer assist on terminal approach. THAT, or it was NOT Flight 77 to begin with, it was some sort of REAL missile, and the REAL Flight 77 WAS in fact taken over by remote control and flown somewhere else, with the passengers and crew neatly disposed of. Perhaps SOME were in fact in on it, who knows.
Only if I allow you to repeal inertia. The wings might have remained intact enough to hold up after the bounce until they hit the steel-reinforced concrete (steel reinforcement was five days from completion supposedly). This is consistent with reports that the plane flew at 500mph but only hit the building at 350mph. The "bounce" sucked 150mph out of its inertia but the plane would be coming apart in the milliseconds between the "bounce" and the impact. Of course, my hacked autopilot would alter the flight configuration of the control surfaces to drop the plane at the edge of the Pentagon. Since it could not be so precise at that speed, you had the "bounce" with the wreckage rising to hit between the first and second floor as the primary impact. Again, this isn't a perfect explanation but it does beat the hell out of the Caveman.
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#152. To: Original_Intent (#140)
Silverstein was bright enough, and savvy enough, as a real estate investor to not take on those two White Elephants to begin with.
#153. To: TooConservative (#138)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#154. To: GreyLmist (#142)
(Edited)
I thought it sounded funner than waiting much longer for TC to get to the F-16/AWACS/EMP type complexities of remote control counter- measure risks to the alleged hijackers of the Official spin.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#155. To: TooConservative (#137)
(Edited)
No, nothing is unhackable.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#156. To: TooConservative (#137)
What if you have suborned some Muzzie aircraft technicians
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#157. To: TooConservative (#137)
These had a PowerPC CPU, two independent programmable (and hackable) tuner chips, and a programmable MPEG decoder chip. These interlocked with the control card (HU series) which was a reflashable CPU which included features to fuse certain parts of the circuitry permanently if they desired to defeat attacks on it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#158. To: Original_Intent (#140)
Silverstein was bright enough, and savvy enough, as a real estate investor to not take on those two White Elephants to begin with.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#159. To: TooConservative (#139)
#160. To: GreyLmist (#144)
Quick, tell us your theory of why WTC 7 fell.
#161. To: ghostdogtxn (#159)
I think it's tea party Republicans.
#162. To: FormerLurker (#157)
(Edited)
A "reflashable CPU" eh? What would be the purpose of reflashing a CPU?
How many ways of doing ANDs, ORs, ADD, SUBs, and JMPs would make a difference?
#163. To: FormerLurker (#155)
However, the hardware architecture of a Boeing flight management computer is NOT pubished, nor are its operating system interfaces, application programming interfaces, nor actual operational control interfaces.
You'd need to basically have a 757 at your disposal, ALL the manuals for the hardware, firmware, and software, intimate knowledge of the navigational systems, flight control systems, and a guided missile program control background to achieve what you're suggesting.
#164. To: FormerLurker (#156)
Or maybe it was some Jew technicians.
#165. To: FormerLurker (#154)
I sort of doubt airliners have USB ports that access the flight management computer for ANY reason, especially not in terms of a maintainance port which could be used to reflash the entire system, as if that were even possibile to do while in flight.
#166. To: FormerLurker (#153)
It turned AWAY from the side of the Pentagon where the high value targets were (such as Rumsfeld's office), where it could have easily DOVE into the Pentagon and exploded all over the roof, spreading flaming fuel over a good portion of the complex. It would have been INFINITELY easier to simply dive into a structure the area of 28 or so football fields, than to perform precision manuevers and line up to hit a 77 foot high wall at ground level.
Yet that is what is CLAIMED to have happened. The aircraft is reported to have come out of it's final turn after having descended to tree top level, then picked up airspeed for about a mile before impacting the Pentagon.
#167. To: TooConservative (#166)
Assuming "treetop" is less than 50 feet, executing a sharp turn would put the wings hitting trees or buildings as you turn the plane since the wing would dip downward, the sharper the turn the more it dips.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#168. To: TooConservative (#166)
And if it was a missile, how did they make the plane "disappear"? How did they keep people from seeing it pass at treetop? Where did they land it? How did they hide it? Etc.?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#169. To: TooConservative (#166)
(Edited)
I think my explanations, imperfect as they are, are still more plausible than what you're offering. But relying on the data we have at this point may be a mistake. We don't have any kind of independent study of the data and lack some information on the systems themselves under extreme conditions like flying at such high speed so near the ground.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#170. To: FormerLurker (#167)
So then it couldn't have been a 757.
#171. To: TooConservative (#170)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#172. To: TooConservative (#170)
Or the instruments and local radar aren't designed for such accuracy at such a low level over a metro area. I would also want to see an expert independent evaluation of the data including the flight recorders and the ground radar readings from the plane.
According to FAA radar controllers, “Flight 77” then suddenly pops up over Washington DC and executes an incredibly precise diving turn at a rate of 360 degrees/minute while descending at 3,500 ft/min, at the end of which “Hanjour” allegedly levels out at ground level. Oh, I almost forgot: He also had the presence of mind to turn off the transponder in the middle of this incredibly difficult maneuver (one of his instructors later commented the hapless fellow couldn’t have spelt the word if his life depended on it).
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#173. To: FormerLurker (#172)
#174. To: TooConservative (#170)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#175. To: TooConservative (#170)
There are also eyewitnesses who say they saw the plane
#176. To: FormerLurker (#169)
If you want to read what a real pilot and aeronautical engineer have to say about all this, read the following link...
#177. To: TooConservative (#166)
We don't have any kind of independent study
#178. To: FormerLurker (#174)
There are conflicting reports as to the altitude of the aircraft when it began the 270 degree turn. Many say 7000 feet, where the author of the article I linked assumed ground level.
#179. To: Red Jones (#177)
at some point you have to ask yourself if you are being righteously patriotic or stupidly psychotic?
#180. To: TooConservative (#176)
And my explanation of a hacked autopilot is still far more conceivable than untrained pilots performing such maneuvers.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#181. To: Red Jones (#173)
on top of all the other impossible things about the official story we're supposed to believe that an inexperienced person piloted that plane. the guy was not a professional pilot and had no real experience even landing a jet like this big passenger jet. and he performs maneuvers that experienced pilots say are nearly impossible.
#182. To: TooConservative (#181)
The hacked autopilot eliminates the need for the Geico Caveman flying an airliner at treetop.
#183. To: FormerLurker (#180)
A) The aircraft could not have descended to ground level from 50 feet high in a fraction of a second while maintaining a neutral pitch (ie. keeping the nose level).
#184. To: TooConservative (#178)
Again, underlining my point about just how reliable some of this data really is. I am especially suspicious of radar and flight recorder data at treetop. No way did they design their system primarily for that situation since the designers will generally assume that the plane is already lost if it is that close to the ground and not over a runway landing at the proper speed.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#185. To: TooConservative (#183)
It left a scar on the lawn. The plane hit the ground and bounced, the collapsing plane exploding as its wreckage hit the building between the first and second floors.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#186. To: Red Jones (#182)
you're right about that. but is it so easy to believe that a pilot in a remote location could put the plane inches off the ground and put it into the 1'st floor like that.
#187. To: TooConservative (#183)
And the plane did, as I've said, penetrate all five rings. In this section of the Pentagon, renovations were five days from completion for its new steel underframe, a project which had been underway for the entire Pentagon since the mid-Nineties.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#188. To: TooConservative, Red Jones (#186)
Admittedly, it would be difficult to do the hacked thing but I find it far more plausible and doable than the Geico caveman or a remote piloting job. Remote piloting would require several milliseconds of lag, time you just don't have.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#189. To: TooConservative (#183)
It left a scar on the lawn. The plane hit the ground and bounced, the collapsing plane exploding as its wreckage hit the building between the first and second floors.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#190. To: FormerLurker (#185)
If the plane had hit the lawn, it would have blown up on the lawn and never penetrated the building. It would have sprayed burning jet fuel EVERYWHERE, including the lawn itself.
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