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Title: Former senator, engineers offer ‘proof’ of 9/11 controlled demolitions
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URL Source: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/ ... rs-911-controlled-demolitions/
Published: Sep 10, 2010
Author: Raw Story
Post Date: 2010-09-10 10:43:08 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 15401
Comments: 259
The nine-year-old body of 9/11 conspiracy theories includes many improbable (and sometimes contradictory) claims, everything from remote-controlled planes flying into the World Trade Center, to a missile hitting the Pentagon, to mass kidnappings of air passengers. But a group of more than 1,200 architects and engineers is building what it hopes is a scientifically sound argument about one 9/11 claim: That the World Trade Center buildings were destroyed not by fires caused by the airplane collisions, but by a controlled demolition. At a press conference in Washington DC, Thursday, the group Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth offered evidence "that all three WTC skyscrapers on September 11, 2001, in NYC were destroyed by explosive controlled demolition." The third building the group referred to was World Trade Center 7, a skyscraper that collapsed about eight hours after the main WTC towers fell. For many 9/11 "truthers," WTC7's collapse despite not being hit by a plane is the "smoking gun" proving that something other than airplanes brought down the towers. The WTC7 collapse was not addressed in the official 9/11 Commission report. "That building fell completely into its own footprint," blogger Andrew Steele told WKTV in Utica. "You can watch on YouTube yourself and use your own common sense. Even if you don't have a scientific background ... if you have two eyes, you can see that fire alone did not bring down that building." His claims, and those of the 1,270 architects and engineers who have signed on to the effort, were bolstered by the support of former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel, who said in a press release that "critically important evidence has come forward after the original government building reports were completed." Gravel has been concerned with the events of September 11, 2001, for some time now. He has called for an independent investigation into 9/11. "Unlike the first investigation, this commission should be granted subpoena power and full access to all governmental files and personnel," Gravel wrote. "George Bush should be forced to testify ALONE." San Francisco architect Richard Gage said the way the towers collapsed was consistent with a controlled demolition, not a chaotic structural collapse. "The official FEMA and NIST reports provide insufficient, contradictory, and fraudulent accounts of the circumstances of the towers' destruction," Gage said. "We are therefore calling for a grand jury investigation of NIST officials." But Gage added that "government investigators at the NIST have been forced to acknowledge the free-fall descent, an indicting fact, after being presented with analysis by AE911Truth petition signers." On its Web site, the architects' and engineers' group lists facts that suggest explosives were used to take down the towers. -- Rapid onset of "collapse" -- Sounds of explosions at ground floor - a second before the building's destruction -- Symmetrical "structural failure" -- through the path of greatest resistance -- at free-fall acceleration -- Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic dust clouds -- Expert corroboration from the top European Controlled Demolition professional -- FEMA finds rapid oxidation and intergranular melting on structural steel samples WTC7 exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire, i.e. -- Slow onset with large visible deformations -- Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, to the side most damaged by the fires) -- High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never "collapsed". Debunking9/11, a Web site devoted to disproving the claims of 9/11 "truthers," argues that no aircraft was needed to bring down WTC7, because "while building 7 wasn't hit by an airliner, it was hit by the large perimeter columns of the Tower collapse. It was 400 ft away but the towers were more than 1300 ft tall. As the tower peeled open, it easily tilted over to reach building 7." "Truthers" and debunkers have been arguing for years over whether the scant photographic evidence of WTC7's south side after the main towers' collapse shows enough damage to justify the building's collapse. "All the buildings just as far away from both towers as WTC7 were hit," Debunking9/11 asserts. "The others were either very short buildings which didn't have to support a massive load above or had no fire. Only Building 7 had unfought fires and the massive load of 40 stories above them." "Justice for all." What's wrong with calling for a transparent, internationally-supported investigation? I want to know what happened that day to all of those buildings, and I want the chain of events that happened up to their collapse. Don't care how ugly the truth is, I just want to know. Why is asking for an independent investigation so bad? I'm not an engineering expert, but ALL of the buildings collapsing (WTC 1, 2, 7) look just like every other controlled demolition video I've seen from around the world. The pieces of the day's events (NORAD, Bin Laden's family being sent out, etc) don't fit together right. It just smells fishy. Who got fired for not doing their job? Who went to jail for criminal negligence? People of authority responding "nothing to see here, move along" aren't helping convince me that what we're being told is the truth. I just want to see Justice. Isn't wanting "Justice for all" patriotic?
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#190. To: FormerLurker (#185)
Only if I allow you to repeal inertia. The wings might have remained intact enough to hold up after the bounce until they hit the steel-reinforced concrete (steel reinforcement was five days from completion supposedly). This is consistent with reports that the plane flew at 500mph but only hit the building at 350mph. The "bounce" sucked 150mph out of its inertia but the plane would be coming apart in the milliseconds between the "bounce" and the impact. Of course, my hacked autopilot would alter the flight configuration of the control surfaces to drop the plane at the edge of the Pentagon. Since it could not be so precise at that speed, you had the "bounce" with the wreckage rising to hit between the first and second floor as the primary impact. Again, this isn't a perfect explanation but it does beat the hell out of the Caveman.
You can "bounce" an egg off the ground, just like skipping a stone on water. We had a lot of chickens when I was a kid so I can speak from personal experience. Actually, an egg skipping off the ground is probably a much more durable object than an airliner at 500mph.
While he may not have been exactly in the know he was likely directed to buy the leases. Probably because he is a Sayanim. And a couple billion in insurance money buys a lot of silence. I'm sure Silverstein knows a great deal about what happened that day, and more than likely is on the "committee" which oversaw the attacks themselves. Besides being a major beneficiary of the attacks, he would have needed to be in on the operation in order to allow the towers to be wired up with explosives. I doubt it would have happened under his nose without his knowledge. Exactly. When you reconstruct what had to have gone on for the towers, and "7", to be brought down then you have to deduce and examine what kind of planning and organizing had to occur. So, one of the key problems would be access to the buildings and no snoopy Port Authority employees wondering who all those strange "maintenance men" were? And that is likely one of the covers used to wire "the job". I listened to a guest on Rense one night who suggested as much (might have been either Jim Marrs or Jay Weidner). The upshot being, and it makes sense when you think about it, who really pays attention to maintenance men running around a building? They're part of the scenery and certainly the self important yuppies and other "suits" are not going to pay much mind to the "little people". So, it would seem key to have somebody in charge of the buildings who would not ask the wrong right questions. Thus "Lucky Larry", likely already a Sayanim, gets tagged to buy the leases on the White Elephants with the knowledge that he would not be stuck with them and would get a big payday out of the deal. He would not even have to be privy to all of the details as he just needs to know his own compartmentalized piece of the operation, and not to ask questions. That would also explain how he knew bldg. 7 was already wired and it was just a matter of setting off the charges to "pull" the building. How much he knew is a question mark but he did have to have some level of knowledge of the general plan so that he would cooperate with giving passes to the "maintenance men".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Your video was taken well before any investigation when it was still smoldering. It took hours for it to cool enough for any real inspection to occur. Still, not too terrible a video. Then you (not me) have to start arguing with the Truther pilots who don't believe in the Caveman pilot. I'll again stay with hacked autopilot, at least a device fast enough to react in the milliseconds required over the seconds that plane flew so low before impact.
The plane was not made of lead, nor was it made of rubber. Any impact with the lawn where the momentum of the plane would have been abruptly stopped would have resulted in the wings being ripped off and tumbling into the building, and would have left a HUGE gash in the lawn itself, with fireballs of fuel burning everywhere between the point of impact and the Pentagon wall. It most certainly wouldn't have had the ability to penetrate the first wall, never mind the rings. There was no gash, no scratch, and no fuel spread all over the lawn. You are grasping at straws here, going BEYOND the evidence and fabricating your own imaginary evidence, where none exist. BTW, you are also flat out wrong concerning the number of rings penetrated. It appears only the first ring was penetrated, the 2nd was apparently untouched, but the third had an exit hole, go figure... There is no evidence that a 757 hit the Pentagon. There is no jet fuel on the exterior walls, and the windows aren't broken where the left wing would have hit. Additionally, your claims concerning the aircraft "bouncing" off the lawn are pure BS, it DID NOT HAPPEN.
Put up a video on YouTube of you bouncing an egg off the ground, I'd like to see it done.
Actually, I assume the bounce could cause the wings to start folding up.
I don't have any videos like that. I do have a few of using an egg as a golf ball and as a baseball in fast-pitch. Would those do? Yes, you can bounce an egg off buffalo grass.
I'd say it'd be next to impossible for "19 angry arab hijackers" (some of whom are still alive) to have been able to reprogram the flight management computer to do what you suggest. It would NOT be impossible for a covert maintenance team to put in a few extra chips into the system, giving total control to the aircraft to whomever possessed the technology to do that sort of thing. So far, only the US government has the ability to fly airliners remotely. That, and the fact Flight 77 is more than likely NOT what hit the Pentagon points to something smaller, faster, and more agile, being the real culprit. A cruise missile, or modified fighter jet seem much more plausible than what you or the media are trying to sell. Again, the lack of fuel on the exterior walls of the Pentagon, along with the unbroken glass windows where the wing would have shattered them as it struck the building, are prime factors in eliminating the possibility of a 757 having struck the Pentagon. Also, the nearby fence was pushed AWAY from the Pentagon, not TOWARDS it as it would have been if it had been knocked down by a wing. Observe the fence on the ground to the left of the car in the following image. Sure, post the links.
Fuel would have gushed out and ignited. Where's the gash, and where's the fires on the lawn?
BTW, can you tell me how a 757 would fit into that little hole on the first floor? Here's an even better picture which wud has already posted a few times. How do you fit a 757 into that hole? Well, I have been told many times that I am quite expert at getting some big thing in a little tiny hole but that is a story for another time. :) I think this picture is far clearer. I object to the way Truthers use some of these pictures to try to lead people to what I consider to be false conclusions. And I think this has been done deliberately by con-men.
I also like this one for obvious reasons.
to think that the boeing jet could go through the little opening you'd have to think that each window was 75 feet wide. a missile hit the pentagon, but it exploded after going in. that is why it killed everyone on the first and second floors in that area. based on the evidence, this is the only possible answer. regarding the 'witnesses' - they are just intelligence assets.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Perhaps you read yesterday, in Europe, the pilot arrested for flying for the airlines without a license???? ALL HE EVER HAD FOR TRAINING WAS IN SMALL SINGLE ENGINE AIRCRAFT. Cannot be done, right????
Yes, can be done with aptitude, skills and training. Our "hijackers" OTOH were remarkably deficient in all of the above.
I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. - Roman Moroni
even the photos you put up show that it could not possibly have been a big passenger jet. where is the wreckage of the jet? why is there not damage to the building across the full width of the wings? The openings you show are 40 feet wide. that was after debris fell. and demolition workers helped the debris to fall just 2-3 hours after the incident. in the afternoon of that day the pictures could be taken showing a 40 foot wide hole the height of the building. This is still inconsistent with the big passenger jet. and the early pictures taken right after the incident show a much smaller hole. who you going to believe, your lying eyes or the government/mass media? hard choice.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
You are showing images of the collapsed structure, you are not showing pre- collapse images, so you of course aren't showing the original damage. As far as THIS image you posted, let's analyze it a bit... Two problems with this image. 1) The red line on the left wing which is supposed to indicate the direction of travel of the left wing tip is skewed to the right and is not parallel to the other two red lines representing the stabalizer tip and right wing tip. The actual termination of that line should be at about the extreme left side of the image. 2) Even WITH the obvious distortion and skewing, the wing should have impacted where the unbroken windows are in the following image. Magical glass I guess, eh? Oh, and super magical fuel, since it instantly evaporated and didn't burn the wall like any other jet fuel would have done. ALL HE EVER HAD FOR TRAINING WAS IN SMALL SINGLE ENGINE AIRCRAFT. Cannot be done, right???? Depends on the pilot, and WHY he didn't have a license, and HOW he got the job in the first place. Perhaps he flew as a co-pilot for years and became familiar with the instuments, perhaps the story is BS as well. Thing is, Hanjour COULD NOT FLY even a single engine Cessna, and was refused permission to rent a Cessna even though he did show a license to the people he tried to rent from. He could not perform the most basic manuevers with the plane on a test flight on at least two separate occasions.
I also like this one for obvious reasons. Yet for the damage to be consistent with that of an aircraft, the plane would have to have been as low as depicted in that image, flying straight and level. All at 500+ mph by a flunk out of a simulator school who couldn't correctly fly a single engine Cessna in a circle around an airport, yet defied the laws of physics on 9/11 by overcoming inertia, ground effect, and turbulence, in the blink of an eye.
I have always thought that many people may have unsuspected talents, the ability to apply perceptual and cognitive skills in remarkable ways. This would not be your average pilot. And even training to fly small aircraft includes a lot of general information about aerodynamic principles and engineering, a good start on mastering IFR. From what I read, big airliners are almost always on autopilot while in flight. It's the takeoffs and especially the landings that require real skill. Also, the emergency training, something your fake pilot would have failed and killed everyone in a situation where a professional pilot would have saved the flight.
Did I tell you yet about my pet theory involving hacked autopilot guidance? Perhaps I can convince you by sheer repetition. Anyway, we seem to be getting farther afield all the time and I don't want to spend the day on it. This thread has had enough of my time.
We can agree on the fact that Hani Hanjour did not pilot that aircraft. We can agree to disagree on how and by whom the aircraft was actually controlled. The fact also remains that there is absolutely no valid evidence indicating Flight 77 struck the Pentagon. BTW, have you ever seen this image? Click the image below, then click the image in your browser again to enlarge it , look in the bottom left hand corner. You might have to scroll the image to the left to see it. It's runway 15 of Reagan International Airport, and is almost in a direct line with the flight path of the SECOND aircraft spotted by the two Pentagon officers amongst other witnesses. Here's that flight path (blue line)... And here's a bit more on that... What this indicates is that Flight 77 was more than likely the jet flying the northerly approach, and that it landed immediately at Reagan International Airport, runway 15, after flying over the Pentagon. The aircraft flying the southerly approach hit the Pentagon as Flight 77 passed over it. I don't think any "terrorists" (other than inside the government) could have pulled that off, with or without "hacked autopilot".
I see your point and have seen the theory and the guys who came up with it. Disposing of the plane and the passengers and making sure that no witness sees the plane flying very low over the Pentagon's roof toward the runway a few seconds after a giant boom makes everyone look directly toward the Pentagon? Seems incredible. Literally.
wait a minute. You're barred from discussing this further as you've spent too much time on it already. (just kidding). see that citgo station in FormerLurker's photo? There were 4 FBI agents at that store within 5 minutes of the event. they confiscated the store's security tapes. there were security cameras taking videos all over the pentagon parking lot. and those videos were not released either. Hotels along the route of the jet also had their security videos confiscated. The video the government did release was from a security camera around one of the corners of the pentagon, it did not have a view. Why are these videos not circulated if it was a passenger jet? Some people hear a military officer on tv say that he saw the passenger jet and they believe him. no. what of the physical evidence, the video tapes?
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
It'd have to be timed perfectly, where the smoke screen would be guaranteed to rise up at the right time in order to obscure the aircraft. Sleight of hand is not impossible, especially when we're talking about aircraft moving in identical paths except towards the very end, though far enough apart so that nobody actually sees both in the sky at the same time. It's not absolute that the real Flight 77 did in fact land at Reagan International, although it could easily have blended in to appear as if it were just taking off from runway 15.
Which explains the gag order that is still in effect on the Air Traffic Controllers today. I wonder how many of them are still alive and how many of them had "accidents" or died from "natural causes"?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Prove your continuous BS. I wager (as usual) you can't.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Eat me. Please demonstrate where and when it was lifted. The onus is on you. Not to mention the anus.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
buckeroo: Prove your continuous BS. I wager (as usual) you can't. And let us examine your response.... I really think you can't back-up anything you post.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Which explains the gag order that is still in effect on the Air Traffic Controllers today. That it would. I wonder how many of them are still alive and how many of them had "accidents" or died from "natural causes"? Has anyone been able to keep track of them to verify they are ok?
The Pentagon lawn wasn't even scuffed up until after the firetrucks and ambulances and whatever other emergency equipment ran over it. The plane didn't do any damage to the lawn. Amazing.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. That it is, especially if the plane "bounced" off the lawn as TooConservative insists.
Wouldn't you love to have a lawn that a big-@$$ commercial jet could slam into and it wouldn't even leave a mark? Must be some mighty fine grass. What is hard to understand though is why the emergency vehicles, much smaller and lighter, damaged it some. A real puzzler.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. It seems so much more magical and complex than just an airliner crashing into the Pentagon. But you lean toward the missile-did-it thing. I'm not following the whole dispute very well, not being expert in the theology, but you and wudi are then the "no-planer neo-Truthers" and most of the other people at 4um are "planer paleo-Truthers"? It's harder to keep track of than a bunch of feuding Baptists.
I'm not sure about the "no-plane" theories in regards to WTC1 and WTC2. Howver, there WAS of course SOME sort of aircraft seen by witnesses in terms of the Pentagon, in fact, probably TWO aircraft. Something DID FLY into the Pentagon, but what WAS it that impacted? All indications are that it was most definitely NOT a Boeing 757. As far as overflying the Pentagon with the actual aircraft, it might seem "magical and complex", but then again, so wouldn't fooling people into believing a cruise missile or a drone was an actual 757. To aid the illusion, it was probably necessary to have a REAL 757 fly the route. Might as well use the one that was hijacked I suppose, if it were in fact taken over by remote control.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestIf the plane had hit the lawn, it would have blown up on the lawn and never penetrated the building. It would have sprayed burning jet fuel EVERYWHERE, including the lawn itself.
#191. To: FormerLurker (#187)
Did you know that aircraft are basically egg shells made of aluminum? Do you know what happens to an egg when you throw it into a lawn? Do you know what happens if you throw that egg into a brick wall?
#192. To: FormerLurker (#189)
no plane, bump
#193. To: FormerLurker, GreyLmist, wudidiz (#158)
Silverstein was bright enough, and savvy enough, as a real estate investor to not take on those two White Elephants to begin with.
#194. To: FormerLurker (#188)
I would say a remote takeover of the flight SYSTEMS is MUCH more likely, with human guidance on approach, perhaps computer assist on terminal approach.
#195. To: TooConservative, Original_Intent, Red Jones, Lod, wudidiz (#190)
Only if I allow you to repeal inertia. The wings might have remained intact enough to hold up after the bounce until they hit the steel-reinforced concrete (steel reinforcement was five days from completion supposedly).
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#196. To: TooConservative (#194)
Then you (not me) have to start arguing with the Truther pilots who don't believe in the Caveman pilot. I'll again stay with hacked autopilot, at least a device fast enough to react in the milliseconds required over the seconds that plane flew so low before impact.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#197. To: TooConservative (#191)
You can "bounce" an egg off the ground, just like skipping a stone on water.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#198. To: FormerLurker (#195)
Any impact with the lawn where the momentum of the plane would have been abruptly stopped would have resulted in the wings being ripped off and tumbling into the building, and would have left a HUGE gash in the lawn itself, with fireballs of fuel burning everywhere between the point of impact and the Pentagon wall.
#199. To: FormerLurker (#197)
Put up a video on YouTube of you bouncing an egg off the ground, I'd like to see it done.
#200. To: TooConservative (#194)
I'll again stay with hacked autopilot, at least a device fast enough to react in the milliseconds required over the seconds that plane flew so low before impact.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#201. To: TooConservative (#199)
I do have a few of using an egg as a golf ball and as a baseball in fast-pitch. Would those do?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#202. To: TooConservative (#198)
Actually, I assume the bounce could cause the wings to start folding up.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#203. To: TooConservative (#194)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#204. To: TooConservative, wudidiz (#199)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#205. To: FormerLurker, Turtle (#203)
BTW, can you tell me how a 757 would fit into that little hole on the first floor?
I find that many people believe the plane (missile, whatever), hit the Pentagon head on. This is not true and it does become easier to visualize from this diagram imposed over a photo.
Look, look! Unbroken windows!
#206. To: All (#205)
#207. To: FormerLurker (#203)
can you tell me how a 757 would fit into that little hole on the first floor?
#208. To: TooConservative (#206)
#209. To: Cynicom (#208)
#210. To: TooConservative (#206)
#211. To: TooConservative (#205)
(Edited)
I think this picture is far clearer. I object to the way Truthers use some of these pictures to try to lead people to what I consider to be false conclusions. And I think this has been done deliberately by con-men.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#212. To: Cynicom (#208)
Perhaps you read yesterday, in Europe, the pilot arrested for flying for the airlines without a license????
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#213. To: TooConservative (#206)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#214. To: Cynicom (#208)
ALL HE EVER HAD FOR TRAINING WAS IN SMALL SINGLE ENGINE AIRCRAFT.
#215. To: FormerLurker (#213)
All at 500+ mph by a flunk out of a simulator school who couldn't correctly fly a single engine Cessna in a circle around an airport, yet defied the laws of physics on 9/11 by overcoming inertia, ground effect, and turbulence, in the blink of an eye.
#216. To: TooConservative, Red Jones, Original_Intent, Cynicom, wudidiz (#215)
Did I tell you yet about my pet theory involving hacked autopilot guidance?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#217. To: FormerLurker (#216)
#218. To: TooConservative (#217)
#219. To: TooConservative (#217)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#220. To: FormerLurker (#219)
It's not absolute that the real Flight 77 did in fact land at Reagan International, although it could easily have blended in to appear as if it were just taking off from runway 15.
#221. To: Original_Intent (#220)
Which explains the gag order that is still in effect on the Air Traffic Controllers today.
#222. To: buckeroo (#221)
#223. To: Original_Intent (#222)
O_I: Which explains the gag order that is still in effect on the Air Traffic Controllers today.
Eat me.
Please demonstrate where and when it was lifted.
The onus is on you. Not to mention the anus.
#224. To: Original_Intent (#220)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#225. To: FormerLurker (#213)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#226. To: James Deffenbach (#225)
The Pentagon lawn wasn't even scuffed up until after the firetrucks and ambulances and whatever other emergency equipment ran over it. The plane didn't do any damage to the lawn. Amazing.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#227. To: FormerLurker (#226)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#228. To: FormerLurker, wudidiz (#219)
It'd have to be timed perfectly, where the smoke screen would be guaranteed to rise up at the right time in order to obscure the aircraft.
#229. To: TooConservative (#228)
But you lean toward the missile-did-it thing. I'm not following the whole dispute very well, not being expert in the theology, but you and wudi are then the "no-planer neo-Truthers" and most of the other people at 4um are "planer paleo-Truthers"?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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