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Title: Former senator, engineers offer ‘proof’ of 9/11 controlled demolitions
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URL Source: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/ ... rs-911-controlled-demolitions/
Published: Sep 10, 2010
Author: Raw Story
Post Date: 2010-09-10 10:43:08 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 14935
Comments: 259
The nine-year-old body of 9/11 conspiracy theories includes many improbable (and sometimes contradictory) claims, everything from remote-controlled planes flying into the World Trade Center, to a missile hitting the Pentagon, to mass kidnappings of air passengers. But a group of more than 1,200 architects and engineers is building what it hopes is a scientifically sound argument about one 9/11 claim: That the World Trade Center buildings were destroyed not by fires caused by the airplane collisions, but by a controlled demolition. At a press conference in Washington DC, Thursday, the group Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth offered evidence "that all three WTC skyscrapers on September 11, 2001, in NYC were destroyed by explosive controlled demolition." The third building the group referred to was World Trade Center 7, a skyscraper that collapsed about eight hours after the main WTC towers fell. For many 9/11 "truthers," WTC7's collapse despite not being hit by a plane is the "smoking gun" proving that something other than airplanes brought down the towers. The WTC7 collapse was not addressed in the official 9/11 Commission report. "That building fell completely into its own footprint," blogger Andrew Steele told WKTV in Utica. "You can watch on YouTube yourself and use your own common sense. Even if you don't have a scientific background ... if you have two eyes, you can see that fire alone did not bring down that building." His claims, and those of the 1,270 architects and engineers who have signed on to the effort, were bolstered by the support of former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel, who said in a press release that "critically important evidence has come forward after the original government building reports were completed." Gravel has been concerned with the events of September 11, 2001, for some time now. He has called for an independent investigation into 9/11. "Unlike the first investigation, this commission should be granted subpoena power and full access to all governmental files and personnel," Gravel wrote. "George Bush should be forced to testify ALONE." San Francisco architect Richard Gage said the way the towers collapsed was consistent with a controlled demolition, not a chaotic structural collapse. "The official FEMA and NIST reports provide insufficient, contradictory, and fraudulent accounts of the circumstances of the towers' destruction," Gage said. "We are therefore calling for a grand jury investigation of NIST officials." But Gage added that "government investigators at the NIST have been forced to acknowledge the free-fall descent, an indicting fact, after being presented with analysis by AE911Truth petition signers." On its Web site, the architects' and engineers' group lists facts that suggest explosives were used to take down the towers. -- Rapid onset of "collapse" -- Sounds of explosions at ground floor - a second before the building's destruction -- Symmetrical "structural failure" -- through the path of greatest resistance -- at free-fall acceleration -- Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic dust clouds -- Expert corroboration from the top European Controlled Demolition professional -- FEMA finds rapid oxidation and intergranular melting on structural steel samples WTC7 exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire, i.e. -- Slow onset with large visible deformations -- Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, to the side most damaged by the fires) -- High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never "collapsed". Debunking9/11, a Web site devoted to disproving the claims of 9/11 "truthers," argues that no aircraft was needed to bring down WTC7, because "while building 7 wasn't hit by an airliner, it was hit by the large perimeter columns of the Tower collapse. It was 400 ft away but the towers were more than 1300 ft tall. As the tower peeled open, it easily tilted over to reach building 7." "Truthers" and debunkers have been arguing for years over whether the scant photographic evidence of WTC7's south side after the main towers' collapse shows enough damage to justify the building's collapse. "All the buildings just as far away from both towers as WTC7 were hit," Debunking9/11 asserts. "The others were either very short buildings which didn't have to support a massive load above or had no fire. Only Building 7 had unfought fires and the massive load of 40 stories above them." "Justice for all." What's wrong with calling for a transparent, internationally-supported investigation? I want to know what happened that day to all of those buildings, and I want the chain of events that happened up to their collapse. Don't care how ugly the truth is, I just want to know. Why is asking for an independent investigation so bad? I'm not an engineering expert, but ALL of the buildings collapsing (WTC 1, 2, 7) look just like every other controlled demolition video I've seen from around the world. The pieces of the day's events (NORAD, Bin Laden's family being sent out, etc) don't fit together right. It just smells fishy. Who got fired for not doing their job? Who went to jail for criminal negligence? People of authority responding "nothing to see here, move along" aren't helping convince me that what we're being told is the truth. I just want to see Justice. Isn't wanting "Justice for all" patriotic?
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#208. To: TooConservative (#206)
Perhaps you read yesterday, in Europe, the pilot arrested for flying for the airlines without a license???? ALL HE EVER HAD FOR TRAINING WAS IN SMALL SINGLE ENGINE AIRCRAFT. Cannot be done, right????
Yes, can be done with aptitude, skills and training. Our "hijackers" OTOH were remarkably deficient in all of the above.
I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. - Roman Moroni
even the photos you put up show that it could not possibly have been a big passenger jet. where is the wreckage of the jet? why is there not damage to the building across the full width of the wings? The openings you show are 40 feet wide. that was after debris fell. and demolition workers helped the debris to fall just 2-3 hours after the incident. in the afternoon of that day the pictures could be taken showing a 40 foot wide hole the height of the building. This is still inconsistent with the big passenger jet. and the early pictures taken right after the incident show a much smaller hole. who you going to believe, your lying eyes or the government/mass media? hard choice.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
You are showing images of the collapsed structure, you are not showing pre- collapse images, so you of course aren't showing the original damage. As far as THIS image you posted, let's analyze it a bit... Two problems with this image. 1) The red line on the left wing which is supposed to indicate the direction of travel of the left wing tip is skewed to the right and is not parallel to the other two red lines representing the stabalizer tip and right wing tip. The actual termination of that line should be at about the extreme left side of the image. 2) Even WITH the obvious distortion and skewing, the wing should have impacted where the unbroken windows are in the following image. Magical glass I guess, eh? Oh, and super magical fuel, since it instantly evaporated and didn't burn the wall like any other jet fuel would have done. ALL HE EVER HAD FOR TRAINING WAS IN SMALL SINGLE ENGINE AIRCRAFT. Cannot be done, right???? Depends on the pilot, and WHY he didn't have a license, and HOW he got the job in the first place. Perhaps he flew as a co-pilot for years and became familiar with the instuments, perhaps the story is BS as well. Thing is, Hanjour COULD NOT FLY even a single engine Cessna, and was refused permission to rent a Cessna even though he did show a license to the people he tried to rent from. He could not perform the most basic manuevers with the plane on a test flight on at least two separate occasions.
I also like this one for obvious reasons. Yet for the damage to be consistent with that of an aircraft, the plane would have to have been as low as depicted in that image, flying straight and level. All at 500+ mph by a flunk out of a simulator school who couldn't correctly fly a single engine Cessna in a circle around an airport, yet defied the laws of physics on 9/11 by overcoming inertia, ground effect, and turbulence, in the blink of an eye.
I have always thought that many people may have unsuspected talents, the ability to apply perceptual and cognitive skills in remarkable ways. This would not be your average pilot. And even training to fly small aircraft includes a lot of general information about aerodynamic principles and engineering, a good start on mastering IFR. From what I read, big airliners are almost always on autopilot while in flight. It's the takeoffs and especially the landings that require real skill. Also, the emergency training, something your fake pilot would have failed and killed everyone in a situation where a professional pilot would have saved the flight.
Did I tell you yet about my pet theory involving hacked autopilot guidance? Perhaps I can convince you by sheer repetition. Anyway, we seem to be getting farther afield all the time and I don't want to spend the day on it. This thread has had enough of my time.
We can agree on the fact that Hani Hanjour did not pilot that aircraft. We can agree to disagree on how and by whom the aircraft was actually controlled. The fact also remains that there is absolutely no valid evidence indicating Flight 77 struck the Pentagon. BTW, have you ever seen this image? Click the image below, then click the image in your browser again to enlarge it , look in the bottom left hand corner. You might have to scroll the image to the left to see it. It's runway 15 of Reagan International Airport, and is almost in a direct line with the flight path of the SECOND aircraft spotted by the two Pentagon officers amongst other witnesses. Here's that flight path (blue line)... And here's a bit more on that... What this indicates is that Flight 77 was more than likely the jet flying the northerly approach, and that it landed immediately at Reagan International Airport, runway 15, after flying over the Pentagon. The aircraft flying the southerly approach hit the Pentagon as Flight 77 passed over it. I don't think any "terrorists" (other than inside the government) could have pulled that off, with or without "hacked autopilot".
I see your point and have seen the theory and the guys who came up with it. Disposing of the plane and the passengers and making sure that no witness sees the plane flying very low over the Pentagon's roof toward the runway a few seconds after a giant boom makes everyone look directly toward the Pentagon? Seems incredible. Literally.
wait a minute. You're barred from discussing this further as you've spent too much time on it already. (just kidding). see that citgo station in FormerLurker's photo? There were 4 FBI agents at that store within 5 minutes of the event. they confiscated the store's security tapes. there were security cameras taking videos all over the pentagon parking lot. and those videos were not released either. Hotels along the route of the jet also had their security videos confiscated. The video the government did release was from a security camera around one of the corners of the pentagon, it did not have a view. Why are these videos not circulated if it was a passenger jet? Some people hear a military officer on tv say that he saw the passenger jet and they believe him. no. what of the physical evidence, the video tapes?
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
It'd have to be timed perfectly, where the smoke screen would be guaranteed to rise up at the right time in order to obscure the aircraft. Sleight of hand is not impossible, especially when we're talking about aircraft moving in identical paths except towards the very end, though far enough apart so that nobody actually sees both in the sky at the same time. It's not absolute that the real Flight 77 did in fact land at Reagan International, although it could easily have blended in to appear as if it were just taking off from runway 15.
Which explains the gag order that is still in effect on the Air Traffic Controllers today. I wonder how many of them are still alive and how many of them had "accidents" or died from "natural causes"?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Prove your continuous BS. I wager (as usual) you can't.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Eat me. Please demonstrate where and when it was lifted. The onus is on you. Not to mention the anus.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
buckeroo: Prove your continuous BS. I wager (as usual) you can't. And let us examine your response.... I really think you can't back-up anything you post.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Which explains the gag order that is still in effect on the Air Traffic Controllers today. That it would. I wonder how many of them are still alive and how many of them had "accidents" or died from "natural causes"? Has anyone been able to keep track of them to verify they are ok?
The Pentagon lawn wasn't even scuffed up until after the firetrucks and ambulances and whatever other emergency equipment ran over it. The plane didn't do any damage to the lawn. Amazing.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. That it is, especially if the plane "bounced" off the lawn as TooConservative insists.
Wouldn't you love to have a lawn that a big-@$$ commercial jet could slam into and it wouldn't even leave a mark? Must be some mighty fine grass. What is hard to understand though is why the emergency vehicles, much smaller and lighter, damaged it some. A real puzzler.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. It seems so much more magical and complex than just an airliner crashing into the Pentagon. But you lean toward the missile-did-it thing. I'm not following the whole dispute very well, not being expert in the theology, but you and wudi are then the "no-planer neo-Truthers" and most of the other people at 4um are "planer paleo-Truthers"? It's harder to keep track of than a bunch of feuding Baptists.
I'm not sure about the "no-plane" theories in regards to WTC1 and WTC2. Howver, there WAS of course SOME sort of aircraft seen by witnesses in terms of the Pentagon, in fact, probably TWO aircraft. Something DID FLY into the Pentagon, but what WAS it that impacted? All indications are that it was most definitely NOT a Boeing 757. As far as overflying the Pentagon with the actual aircraft, it might seem "magical and complex", but then again, so wouldn't fooling people into believing a cruise missile or a drone was an actual 757. To aid the illusion, it was probably necessary to have a REAL 757 fly the route. Might as well use the one that was hijacked I suppose, if it were in fact taken over by remote control.
Prove your continuous BS. I wager (as usual) you can't. I submit that any govt employee who wants to keep his/her job and not under suspicious circs cross over the River Styx shortly after wouldn't dare offer contradictory evidence. A gag order is unnecessary because the writing is on the wall for any who DARE challenge the ever evolving fairie tale that fostered the new religion of the oil thieving war mongers. And, the proof is evident everywhere as all (who can't be fired and are not easily intimidated) that question the bullshit story are savaged with everything the MIC/Israeli/BushCo/Nazi/Neoqueer machines can heave at them. You both know that if you were taken aboard UFOs and anally probed you'd be stupid to tell anyone because officially, off plant intelligence does not exist and you'd be declared defacto delusional (by many of the same lying bastards) for saying otherwise. 9/11 is no different, and so far every single govt whistle blower on any secret has been made to regret it. So, for buck to demand proof of anything when he'd be among the most vicious to savage any such ATC employee (and to offer unsubstantiated bullshit as "proof" of their mental illness) is evidence of his intellectual dishonesty, and his agenda. And, to suggest that a gag order is keeping the silence is to suggest that people don't jump into volcanoes because of the consequences of ruining their clothes.
I'd like to get some of that grass, mine sucks.
Yes, sometimes I wonder if the person who posts here under the name buckeroo is actually the same person who used that moniker on FR, Liberty Post, Freedom Underground and wherever else he might have posted. The one who used to post on those boards didn't seem to be such a big fan of the government. I know times change and sometimes people change but not usually 180 degrees. If it is the same buck I wonder what they are holding over him to catapult their propaganda.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Yeah, me too. Just a little of it would probably do the front and back where I live now.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I take it you mean landing on Runway 15/32, a 5204 foot runway. I did find a Boeing airport planning document for the 757 which gives runway landing lengths for the 757-200 but I am not confident I fully grasp the graphs found starting at the bottom of page 64. Maybe you would have enough room to make the gentle turn after the near-hit of the Pentagon and still get down on the runway quick enough and straight enough to make a stop. ... Well, unless you have a magically hacked autopilot. Then of course... If I'm making fun of my own pet theories just for fun, it's time to go outside for a while.
Have you noticed that O_I has backed-offed and won't chime in about his own claim: Which explains the gag order that is still in effect on the Air Traffic Controllers today. ? He is an Internet charlatan.. a mere, used-car salesman.. kicking old tires trying to sale junk to old and frayed idiots, akin to you.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
He may be a natural contrarian who disagrees when posting at state worshipers' sites, and then is the govt's best friend here. Perhaps his real goal is to frustrate others because misery loves company. And, it's one thing to criticize things about the govt that aren't likely to contribute to its collapse. He may be too afraid of the truth of 9/11 because like millions of other recipients of govt checks his first priority is his own comfort and survival. When that could be jeopardized by the truth the govt could be secretly eating babies and people like him would not reveal it, and in fact many would help cover up the crimes. I've written several times that countless SS recipients in my neighborhood barber shop used to say, "I don't care what happens after I'm gone, I just want mah damn check!" Well, on a moral scale just how far do you believe it is from taking advantage of the social security swindle to actively aiding the govt in its plunder?
. . . and begin flaming and throwing around epithets in a discussion hitherto pretty rational and factual. But I do remember the stories from 2004 that controllers were being gagged. I don't keep yards of stuff on disk the way some do, and when I look for stuff on these tragedies and their coverup, I find a lot of links to published sources broken. There's this though on the server of letsrollforums.com which is still active. I spoke with William earlier today and he told me about this new gag order placed on all FAA employees on the 15th of October. This is short, but you will get the point; cheers- phil --------------------- Current and Retired FAA Employees Issued "Series 900" Gag Order by FAA. Original article found at: http://suetheterrorists.net/page14.html Abel Ashes 10/15/04 I apologize in advance that this will be a short posting and that it will not answer all of your, or my questions. Stanley and I will be looking into this matter further and will release information on this subject as it becomes available. Stanley was recently shown, by a former FAA employee, an FAA issued document known as a "Series 900". The document is an FAA issued gag order that has been, as we understand things currently, issued to and pertains to all current and former FAA employees demanding that they refrain from discussing any issue related to the September 11th attacks. Current and former FAA employees are banned by issuance of the "Series 900" from discussing 9/11 even with their own families. The document threatens current FAA employees with firings and current and former FAA employees with cancellation of pensions. Best Regards, William Lewis BridgeStone Media Group www.PoliceState21.com NOTICE: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This electronic message contains information which may be privileged and/or confidential. This information is intended for the exclusive use of the individual(s), entity, or persons named or indicated above. Any unauthorized access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of any parts of the contents of this message/information is strictly prohibited by federal law. Any attempts to intercept this message are in violation of Title 18 U.S.C. 2511(1), 3121-3127 of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA). All violators are subject to fines, imprisonment or civil damages, or both. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________ Phil Jayhan 9/11 Blog | Phil Jayhan v666 Blog | Frederick Bastiats Audio of "The Law" I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. - Roman Moroni
Best Regards, William Lewis BridgeStone Media Group www.PoliceState21.com I suppose you read a lot of stuff on the Internet AND as a result... you believe it is ALL true.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Not too far. Unfortunately most people can't seem to grasp that Social(ist) (In)Security is a big Ponzi scheme and doomed to fail. And anyone in the private sector who came up with such a scam would be looking at some serious time in a serious prison. But since politicians did it "under color of law" some people think it must be ok. But stealing is stealing no matter who does it. And, to me, a thief with a gun is more honorable than someone who steals from others under color of law. The thief with a gun makes no pretense that what he is doing is ok, if he thought it was he wouldn't need the gun. But when the government steals from you they do it because "the law" allows them to. And that is unconscionable.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I give it some weight because I remember it being reported in credible mainstream sources years ago. With respect, Buck, what you are implying here is that I am a credulous sucker. In response I will say that I am going off what I recall from quite a while ago. I don't hold myself out as an expert on this stuff, but a few salient things are stored in my memory regarding reporting of the events of the days in question and its aftermath. I can't PROVE the existence of these gag orders, no. There is little that meets the standard of PROOF in many things that we discuss here, be cause officialdom has done all it can to keep many of the facts we're discussing out of tribunals that require sworn testimony. I invite you, Buck, to show that these gag orders are not in force or that they never existed. And I invite other fellow posters here to provide some reasonable substantiation of the proposition that the FAA did in fact gag controllers.
I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. - Roman Moroni
Ya want me to prove the existence of faeries or perhaps leprechauns, do ya?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
No. Just show us a news article or two from some respected journal by an author who puts his name to it that sheds light on the assertion one way or another. What I'm asking you to do is simply what you require of Original Intent.
I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. - Roman Moroni
Randge, I have a lot of respect about your bearing and considerations. But, O_I blew it. He made the initial point of view. And when questioned about his own knowledge... all he said was: In effect, O_I is in a defensive posture about his own perspective. And it won't be the last time, I catch O_I forcing some BS upon a thread ALL THE TIME.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Which was a response to "Prove your continuous BS. I wager (as usual) you can't." That was provocative and unnecessary. The assertion that flight controllers were gagged is not outside the realm of credibility. It's not like OI claimed that reptilian photon waves were used to collapse Building Seven. The FAA gag order story is one that many of us remember, although it might be hard to document at a moment's notice. It's not difficult to weigh one's words, I find, until someone else raises the temperature and the ante.
I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. - Roman Moroni
Excellent find my intelligent and resourceful friend! Please allow me to amplify my remarks with this: I never doubted the gag order but my point is that it's incidental. There is one much better reason not to blab-The Mossad's bag of trix that resemble heart attacks or mechanical failures during flight or sudden despondent leaps from hotel balconies after seeing the minibar prices, etc.,.
Three clicks of a mouse, 'Dawg. I wish to God that someone could get DOCUMENTS and not just ancient posts into a court of law with the perps in the dock.
I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. - Roman Moroni
"Federal Judge" is a title of nobility. The now deceased Sherman Skolnick documented the theft, resale and divvying up of assets by the IL Bankruptcy Court liquidators who then split with the judges. It wasn't that long ago when the fact that these judges served fixed terms was a "problem" because their cases sometimes continued beyond their service. The solution? Why, lifetime appointments for them of course. I saw other problems they didn't mention, though. Suppose a judge had already taken his cut and another judge had to finish the case. Where was his split? No, it wouldn't be fair for a liquidator to have to give up his split (2 4 them and nun 4 him) so, congress did the only thing they could do..... And I know from my own experience when I helped a pal beat 3 counts of felony tax evasion (I wrote, Wifey typed and he filed as "Attorney Pro Se") that nobody can stack a jury like the feds. Among those who can't wait to convict are jurors who have previously served and convicted, local, county and state govt employees, insurance bureaucrats, recipients of the "negative income tax" and others on the dole, etc., but never do they seat indie truckers, independent businessmen, flea market operators or any cash-only types of entrepreneurs who have learned how to under report or jurors who exonerated defendants before. The US Attorney may even examine tax returns of those in the pool because state worshipers can be spotted by how and what they file. Throw in a dutiful pool of scribes who spin the news so that even exonerations read like "gross miscarriages of justice" and one need not wonder why the federal conviction rate is somewhere around 97%. And this is why people like you and I can't get past the grand jury forepersons who are selected for their belief in the govt's infallibility. Needless to say, you and I can no longer initiate an investigation of a banskster (or a Bernie Madoff) by contacting the "independent grand jury" foreperson. "Certain folks" are only indicted if the US Attorney (usually his/her assistant-AUSA and with great regret, alas) brings the case and recommends prosecution.
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#209. To: Cynicom (#208)
#210. To: TooConservative (#206)
#211. To: TooConservative (#205)
(Edited)
I think this picture is far clearer. I object to the way Truthers use some of these pictures to try to lead people to what I consider to be false conclusions. And I think this has been done deliberately by con-men.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#212. To: Cynicom (#208)
Perhaps you read yesterday, in Europe, the pilot arrested for flying for the airlines without a license????
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#213. To: TooConservative (#206)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#214. To: Cynicom (#208)
ALL HE EVER HAD FOR TRAINING WAS IN SMALL SINGLE ENGINE AIRCRAFT.
#215. To: FormerLurker (#213)
All at 500+ mph by a flunk out of a simulator school who couldn't correctly fly a single engine Cessna in a circle around an airport, yet defied the laws of physics on 9/11 by overcoming inertia, ground effect, and turbulence, in the blink of an eye.
#216. To: TooConservative, Red Jones, Original_Intent, Cynicom, wudidiz (#215)
Did I tell you yet about my pet theory involving hacked autopilot guidance?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#217. To: FormerLurker (#216)
#218. To: TooConservative (#217)
#219. To: TooConservative (#217)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#220. To: FormerLurker (#219)
It's not absolute that the real Flight 77 did in fact land at Reagan International, although it could easily have blended in to appear as if it were just taking off from runway 15.
#221. To: Original_Intent (#220)
Which explains the gag order that is still in effect on the Air Traffic Controllers today.
#222. To: buckeroo (#221)
#223. To: Original_Intent (#222)
O_I: Which explains the gag order that is still in effect on the Air Traffic Controllers today.
Eat me.
Please demonstrate where and when it was lifted.
The onus is on you. Not to mention the anus.
#224. To: Original_Intent (#220)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#225. To: FormerLurker (#213)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#226. To: James Deffenbach (#225)
The Pentagon lawn wasn't even scuffed up until after the firetrucks and ambulances and whatever other emergency equipment ran over it. The plane didn't do any damage to the lawn. Amazing.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#227. To: FormerLurker (#226)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#228. To: FormerLurker, wudidiz (#219)
It'd have to be timed perfectly, where the smoke screen would be guaranteed to rise up at the right time in order to obscure the aircraft.
#229. To: TooConservative (#228)
But you lean toward the missile-did-it thing. I'm not following the whole dispute very well, not being expert in the theology, but you and wudi are then the "no-planer neo-Truthers" and most of the other people at 4um are "planer paleo-Truthers"?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#230. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent (#221)
Which explains the gag order that is still in effect on the Air Traffic Controllers today.
#231. To: James Deffenbach (#227)
Wouldn't you love to have a lawn that a big-@$$ commercial jet could slam into and it wouldn't even leave a mark? Must be some mighty fine grass.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#232. To: HOUNDDAWG (#230)
So, for buck to demand proof of anything when he'd be among the most vicious to savage any such ATC employee (and to offer unsubstantiated bullshit as "proof" of their mental illness) is evidence of his intellectual dishonesty, and his agenda.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#233. To: FormerLurker (#231)
I'd like to get some of that grass, mine sucks.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#234. To: FormerLurker (#219)
It's not absolute that the real Flight 77 did in fact land at Reagan International, although it could easily have blended in to appear as if it were just taking off from runway 15.
#235. To: HOUNDDAWG, Original_Intent (#230)
So, for buck to demand proof of anything
#236. To: James Deffenbach (#232)
Yes, sometimes I wonder if the person who posts here under the name buckeroo is actually the same person who used that moniker on FR, Liberty Post, Freedom Underground and wherever else he might have posted. The one who used to post on those boards didn't seem to be such a big fan of the government. I know times change and sometimes people change but not usually 180 degrees. If it is the same buck I wonder what they are holding over him to catapult their propaganda.
#237. To: HOUNDDAWG, buckeroo, Original_Intent (#230)
So, for buck to demand proof of anything
20 Oct 2004 , 23:24 PM
If such orders exist, it's a good bet that they are still in force. Given the state of "emergency" that we live under the current "war on terror" and all that other crap, I'd be surprised if they just went away.
FAA Gag Order-
#238. To: randge (#237)
Stanley was recently shown, by a former FAA employee, an FAA issued document known as a "Series 900". The document is an FAA issued gag order that has been, as we understand things currently, issued to and pertains to all current and former FAA employees demanding that they refrain from discussing any issue related to the September 11th attacks. Current and former FAA employees are banned by issuance of the "Series 900" from discussing 9/11 even with their own families. The document threatens current FAA employees with firings and current and former FAA employees with cancellation of pensions.
#239. To: HOUNDDAWG (#236)
Well, on a moral scale just how far do you believe it is from taking advantage of the social security swindle to actively aiding the govt in its plunder?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#240. To: buckeroo (#238)
(Edited)
I suppose you read a lot of stuff on the Internet AND as a result... you believe it is ALL true.
#241. To: randge (#240)
I invite you, Buck, to show that these gag orders are not in force or that they never existed.
#242. To: buckeroo (#241)
Ya want me to prove the existence of faeries or perhaps leprechauns, do ya?
#243. To: randge, Original_Intent (#242)
What I'm asking you to do is simply what you require of Original Intent.
Which explains the gag order that is still in effect on the Air Traffic Controllers today.
Eat me.
#244. To: buckeroo (#243)
Eat me.
#245. To: randge (#237)
#246. To: HOUNDDAWG (#245)
Excellent find
#247. To: randge (#246)
I wish to God that someone could get DOCUMENTS and not just ancient posts into a court of law with the perps in the dock.
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