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Title: How To Promote Peace in Your Church
Source:
LibertarianChristians.com
URL Source: http://libertarianchristians.com/20 ... -promote-peace-in-your-church/
Published: Sep 11, 2010
Author: Norman Horn
Post Date: 2010-09-11 19:32:58 by bush_is_a_moonie
Keywords: None
Views: 976
Comments: 70
“If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.” 2 Chronicles 7:14 People regularly email me with questions about how to communicate with other Christians about liberty and peace. The greatest conundrum the Christian libertarian has, it seems, is persuading other Christians to stop supporting the immoral wars that governments perpetrate across the globe. It is particularly difficult in the United States, where “supporting the troops” is essentially part of the new orthodoxy in most evangelical Protestant churches. You can publicly criticize a minister that he preaches too long and someone will support you, but say one word criticizing the military (or even the police) and you become anathema. It is not as though we cannot defend our position adequately; the truth is on our side. We can easily bring forth historical data, ethics, and solid theology to make our case that war is wrong. This is good and right! We must never cease reasoning with those who disagree with us, and we should do so with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15). However, we must admit that a large part of the problem is not merely failure to reason, but also a failure to show Christian compassion toward others. Churches all over forget that war really is hell, and neglect the suffering war causes. This is especially reflected in our public prayers. In the past, even the Southern Baptists took the Word of God seriously and prayed for those affected by war. But when was the last time you heard a church pray for anyone in the Middle East, for instance, other than soldiers? When was the last time you heard a church pray for an end to war? Recently, I was moved to step out and try something I have never heard of done before: ask the leaders of my congregation to take the lead in praying for those suffering in war. After consulting with some of my close friends, I attended the June 2010 elders’ meeting and presented the following letter to them to address the “Prayer for the Church” that we offer every Sunday morning worship service. We have noticed an unusual trend over the past few months during our prayers for the church in Sunday morning worship. On multiple occasions, we have heard people pray for men and women in the military, that they receive “special measures of protection” as they fight to “protect our freedoms” and “serve our country.” While we understand the concerns of church members who have friends and family in the armed forces, and while we sincerely hope for their safe return immediately, we find that these kinds of prayers are neglectful of another group – those victims who suffer wrongfully from this war, to whom we are indeed responsible in part for their suffering. Regardless of one’s opinion of these wars, we think that all can agree upon inspection that this practice can and should change to be more inclusive. For instance, we never hear prayers for our fellow Christians who live in Iraq and Afghanistan. Since the US invasion in 2003, Christians who were tolerated in the past have been repeatedly persecuted and frequently even killed by indiscriminate warfare or surging extremist groups, and nearly half of the Christian population of 800,000 in Iraq has either fled the country or died. In March 2010 alone, over 4,000 Christians were displaced from their homes following unrest in the northern city of Mosul. Many more have confined themselves to their homes for their own safety. Moreover, we rarely, if ever, hear prayers for the innocent people in Iraq that die on a daily basis, either from indiscriminate killing by our own military or civil unrest that results from a country torn apart by war. The lowest estimates of non-combatant deaths in Iraq number greater than 100,000. Unfortunately, over time our sensibilities and attitudes toward this war – which is now the longest prolonged conflict in American history – have become desensitized and lackadaisical, and thus we often forget these innocent people. We appeal to the elders to lead the way toward recognizing this issue with two simple proposals. First, we propose to include in the bulletin prayer requests under “Family Members in the Military” a mention of the innocent and oppressed in Iraq and Afghanistan, especially our Iraqi and Afghan brothers and sisters in Christ, and for an end to these wars. Second, we propose that the elders take the lead in consistently mentioning the same in prayer with the congregation on Sunday mornings. If the prayers of the righteous are powerful and effective, then surely instituting this practice will do good both for these victims and for our own spirits. We support this appeal with Scripture in two ways. First, if you consider these people as we do, that they are innocent victims and have been wronged by their own leaders, by extremists, and by our own military, then may we pray to God as Jesus taught his disciples: to be “delivered from evil.” If we can pray this for ourselves, surely we can do so for others. But second, if you still consider these people our enemies, then may we do as Jesus said in Matthew 5: “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.” May this be the beginning of understanding what Jesus said moments before, “Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” Changing our practice to include praying for the oppressed is not a political statement. In fact, this is not a political issue in the least; on the contrary it is a moral and theological issue. If we are to pray “Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven,” then we should take seriously that Jesus came and died to proclaim peace on earth and to liberate the oppressed. We may expect that “wars and rumors of wars” will always exist, but this does not require a condoning or defeatist attitude of such events. Rather, this understanding should make us more sensitive and more compassionate toward those who suffer. To conclude, war is arguably the most destructive human activity ever devised, and it is an intensely serious moral and theological issue because of its finality for those involved either directly as soldiers or indirectly as innocents. It is right to earnestly pray for our family members participating in war, but let us not become callous to the suffering of others, especially those to whom we are indirectly responsible for their suffering. Therefore, we should let our congregational prayers reflect our concern for them. In Christ, Norman Horn [Others at my church signed this letter as well, names withheld for privacy.] The response of the elders was, to my surprise, extraordinarily positive. We discussed some of the ramifications of them taking this position. Only one had any concern for it being “too political.” In response, I emphasized that the effects of war are apolitical and intensely real, and therefore to ignore what’s going on is potentially even more political than standing up for what is right. The next Sunday morning service, during the “Prayer for the Church,” the elder assigned to the task prayed for peace and for the innocent affected by war. This has continued for many weeks on end, with both elders and non-elders doing the same. It isn’t a perfect record at this point, but something is changing. Amen! Now, I have to admit that I have the ear of the eldership already. I am a part-time minister in this congregation, and thus they could have been generally more receptive of my proposal because it came from me. It could be that if you tried the exact course of action I did, it might not work out so well. But I still contend that anyone could work with their church in an analogous manner to change it even a little toward peace. Here are some ideas that might help you: 1) Start by setting the example yourself. When you are asked to pray in public for the congregation and its concerns, include those oppressed by war with any prayer offered for family and friends in the military. Furthermore, make sure that you are praying for peace in your private life. 2) If and when you engage your congregation more directly, initiate it by making a request that requires no justification at all. Don’t be afraid to just ask! Send one of your church leaders a very simple request, something like this: “When we pray for soldiers in Iraq, could we also pray for the Iraqis who are suffering, especially our Christian brothers and sisters there, and that God would bless our enemies and bring them peace.” You don’t even have to justify such a request. That’s straight out of Scripture, right? 3) Find others to make the same request together. Talk to some of your elders/leaders together. Again, keep it simple, but up the ante a little bit each time. 4) Keep it apolitical. You are not trying to “make people into libertarians” or anything of the sort. This message is first and foremost about the people affected by conflict. Our concern is for them, not for our egos or political views. 5) If at first you don’t succeed, try again. You may not get a good hearing initially, but be patient. Gently keep pushing back. If it becomes necessary, use the letter above as a model to give to your church leaders. Keep in mind, I really think this should be a “letter of last resort” to be used if your leaders refuse to listen to simpler reason. I carefully constructed this with feedback from multiple sources, so that it could easily show the self-evident principles involved. It gives no quarter and I don’t apologize for that, but know your audience and appeal to their sensibilities. Of course, some in your church will respond negatively to this kind of request. They may ask how you can ask a church to pray for this war, for instance, when there are millions of other things for which we could pray. What about apartheid in South Africa, earthquakes in Haiti, or persecuted Christians in China? Could not the list go on forever if we wanted? Those critics have a point, but our response should be that there is a fundamental difference between, say, praying for apartheid in South Africa – where we are aware of no national influence (and in my church’s case, have none of our church members as missionaries there) – and these wars. The difference is that this country, the United States, claims responsibility for their country now, and hence we are already involved. It is not “our fault” that Haiti had an earthquake or that Christians in China are being persecuted (though we may pray for them anyway), but it is in part our fault that the United States has torn apart the Middle East. Moreover, churches continue to condone and support such aggression with little thought either to the consequences for the Arab peoples or the internal subconscious changes that this has on our own churches. And what better way to change our own hearts than through the power of prayer? And what better way to start that process than through the leadership of the church? Imagine what would happen if churches across the United States (and internationally!) were to stop praying for the military alone and to begin including those oppressed by war in their public prayers as well. Don’t you think that God will help make our hearts ever more attuned to the oppressed? If the Bible says that the prayers of the righteous are effective, and if we believe that prayer affects us as much or more than prayer affects God, then let us never cease to pray for and support those who suffer from the horror of war and let us encourage others to do the same. Think about some ways that you can be a peaceful voice for peace in your church. Maybe emulating the story above is one way you can make a difference. I truly believe this simple idea can change hearts and minds across the world if, with God’s help, we are brave enough to try.
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#6. To: A K A Stone (#3)
No, it is someone that hates the bible.
God is always good!
God is always good! RickyJ posted on 2010-09-11 21:40:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Love ya man.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" If they were actually fighting to "protect OUR freedoms" and "serve OUR country" they would be here fighting the politicians, bureaucrats, bankers and corrupt judges. They are doing nothing for America where they are.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. No, it is someone that hates the bible. Ricky you have said repeatedly that Israel should be nuked. Killing millions of innocent people. By their fruit you will know them. Ricky your fruit is that of a wannabe murderer. God gave Israel to the Jews. You sound like a muslim. Your book got burnt today. Did you cry?
says the hypocrite who yells nuke the jews. You are a fool ricky.
Sargon The Great was the master of all.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" The unabomber (your hero) was a murderer.
The judgment of God upon Israel is the result of Israel's willful, deliberate unbelief and rejection of the counsel of God against themselves. God forsook the Jews because the Jews forsook God. He left them because they left him. He blinded them, so that they cannot see, because when they had his light they refused to walk in it. Romans 10 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. Romans 11 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root the 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
When Hezekiah returned to Israel and started rebuilding the temple gates. Wasn't Israel still in rebellion to his word? The Bible does say that the Jews would return to Israel in the last days. Do all the Jews have to saved first before that happens or is it maybe a process that will happen.
Those "last days" happened over 2000 years ago. The "Jews" of today are using Christian's ignorance of that fact and the scriptures to literally get away with murder of whomever they choose to kill.
God is always good!
What happened to the second coming, the mark of the Beast, the abomination of desolation and all that stuff. I don't think you are reading the Bible but some science fiction comic book.
It's all fiction, you idiot. Actually, the world will only be a peaceful place when people who believe the drivel you and RJ believe are rounded up, put in camps and lobotomized (etc...). Reason always could run the world if religion would get out of the fucking way. Thanks for the laugh, however. A thumper like yourself accusing a slightly different thumper of believing as gospel a work of fiction. Classic.
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
Wow...what you said
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
Jews are no different than Christians. If they refuse to love, honor and follow HIS Law and Commandments they will suffer as any others who fail to do so. The Israel The Lord Speaks Of is not the dirt of the Middle East, it is those He has chosen which includes all those who believe and obey His Word. The problem with the Zionists are they are some of the worst offenders. And as I have said before, if being Jewish meant a person is one of the chosen without regard to what they do then everybody on earth should convent to Judaism. Remember, He repeatedly warns them that they can break His Covenant and as a result will suffer. Leviticus 26 is just one of the examples where He warns them. 13 I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright. 14 But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; 15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: 16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you. 18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. 19 And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass: 20 And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits. 21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. 22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate. 23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me; 24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins. 25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. 26 And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied. 27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; 28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. 29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. 31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. 32 And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it. Isaiah 44 14 He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it. 15 Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto. 16 He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire: 17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god. 18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand. 19 And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree? 20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand? 21 Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me. 22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
First you take about 5 gallons of gasoline and pour it all over the pews and the pulpit. Then you take a match... In the past, even the Southern Baptists took the Word of God seriously and prayed for those affected by war. But when was the last time you heard a church pray for anyone in the Middle East, for instance, other than soldiers? When was the last time you heard a church pray for an end to war? "Even the southern baptists"? THis tard holds them up to some high standard? What can possibly be said when they support torture to such a degree, not to mention the murder of people that have done us no harm. www.google.com/search?q=s...ell=1&fp=66c068866a123d01
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen
There are too many prophesies in the Bible about things that would come to pass in the last days that didn't happen "2,000 years ago" to make that a credible statement. Many of the Biblical prophecies have been fulfilled and some are being fulfilled even now but they haven't all been fulfilled yet.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. AK You are a fool, and you have proven that you just make things up. But that appears to be what zionist apologists do - because they have to.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Bingo! You have the right and only answer.
If we can't get the cancer of religion excised, we are doomed. That's the true answer.
I don't make things up. You had the unabomber as part of your tagline. You even said he was right. Christine even talked to you about it.
Reason always could run the world if religion would get out of the fucking way. Thanks for the laugh, however. A thumper like yourself accusing a slightly different thumper of believing as gospel a work of fiction. Classic. The world has never been peaceful and never will be. China and USSR were athiest states. That is where you belong. Not in a country that is founded on the Declaration of Independence and God given unalienable rights. You are not a cultural American. You are a cultural soviet. And quit begging to join my forum.
Sooner or later one of them nukes is gonna go off over there in the ME. The jews keep killing Arab peoples all over the ME because the US is backing them. They are like the bully at school that provokes a fight only when he is backed up by others. I got a question for you Stoney. Who are the Arab peoples? Did God not Make them as well as the jews? You jews and jew lovers got a lot of repenting to do and you better do it before the big bang. Time is running out!
I like you dude. I pretty much agree with what you said. Not everything but most of it.
Of course God made the Arabs too. But he did way back when reveal his word to the Jews. He gave them the responsibility that they don't always live up to. They will see the light in their time of need. That is what the Bible teaches. I have no problem with Arabs. They are human and have human wants and needs like the rest of us. But when they get involved in Islam they are on the wrong track. Anyone can take a look at the Koran and see that it is an evil book that causes people to do evil things. So my problem is not with Arabs but muslims. There are Caucasian muslims too. Iran.
First, I haven't talked to you about that shithole of yours in at least a week and I never begged you for shit. I gave you my terms and you declined. Next, it's "inalienable" rights, moron. If you're going to quote it, get it right. Finally, if you can't step back and objectively see the damage wrought on humanity by you fuckwaffles fighting over whose imaginary sky fairy has the biggest cock, you're as stupid as everyone thinks you are. Oh, and I've had ancestors here since Jamestown. Look up "Order of the Ancient Planters", moron, and either properly abase yourself in the presence of your betters or fuck off. Either works.
Unalienable is better. So I use that word. It means they can't be taken away.
There is hope for you yet. Let's break down what you wrote, analyse it a little and then have you tell us more. I'm glad to see you have finally admitted Arabs are humans too. That is a change from a few months ago when you were calling for the open slaughter or Palestinian people including innocent women and children. It was ok in your mind to murder theser people by the bushell and you cried holy hell if they retaliated and killed only a few murdering jews. You are right. Anyone can take a look at the Koran. How about the Talmud? Can anyone look at it? I heard no. Did I hear wrong? See, the problems is that both sides feel their religion is the correct one. That is what they are fighting over. For all Christian people know, both their religous book could be wrong and both could be evil. They both exercise and do evil things to each other and the jews go one step fruther and do evil things to all the rest of mankind. The best example is what theey have done to the USA to this point and apparently they aren't finished with us yet. Take a good look at Germany leading up to WW II and you will see how evil the jews were at that time. They joined in with Hitler and help kill other jews. I don't think the Arabs did any such thing.
We're screwed. I just learned Buckwheat went Muzzie. His new name is Kareem of Wheat.
I think you misinterpreted what I said. I basically said Israel has a right to defend itself. If people are launching rockets to hit their people. They have a right to fight back. Sometimes innocent people get killed. I don't like that. But it happens. If they didn't fight back their people would all be killed. They are a tiny country that is fighting for survival.
LOL! Good one Jethro.
Talmud. I've never read it. Probably never will. It is an intrepretation by various rabbis from what I understand. They probably got some things right and some things wrong. They should just stick with what the Bible says. Did some Jews help Hitler out to save their own skin. Probably so. Human nature.
lol
no one would argue that, Stone, but the truth is Israel is not acting in only a defensive manner. they are aggressively offensive. here's an excellent video on the topic: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land: Media & the Israel-Palestine Conflict
Praise the Profit! WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
Let's see: Jefferson wrote it. Score 1 for him. Jefferson, by all accounts wasn't a douche, that's 2 in his favor, and finally, Jefferson wasn't a fundie zealot nutball, that's 3, and Stone goes down without swinging.
You might argue with this. Iran is building nukes. If they get them they could possibly be used to destroy Israel or even other countries. If Israel decided to take out that facility or facilities. I think that they have a compelling case that they are threatened and could take action to not get nuked.
unalienable [ŒnÈejljYnYbYl] adj Law a variant of inalienable
Stonie needs to read the Old Testament. The Jews are acting as they did throughout the text. Take the story of Dinah and the Sheshimites as an example--Dinah, the little Jewish princess claimed that she wanted to marry the Sheshemite prince. Of course, there was a catch. All of the sheshimite men, from babies to in their eighties, had to get circumcized. This was the deal. So, the Sheshimites agreed. The following day, they all had been circumcized and were trying to heal from the pain, when the Jews came in and slaughtered them all while they were unable to fend for themselves. This is just ONE story of many with similar tactics and outcomes. Yet, Stonie ignores the book he claims to know so much about. Any honest person would admit that the OT is often more harsh than the Koran, which Stonie has never read and knows very little about--especially in instances such as Dinah and the Sheshimites, of which there are MANY.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Wouldn't the same hold true for the Palestinians too? They once had a country and it was stolen from them. Now the live in Gaza and are subject to all kinds of atrocities perpetrated upon them by the Israelis. Surely you would agree then that they have a right to defend themselves and retaliate. I did notice how one sided you answer to my questions were. Oh one more question for you. Before 1948, what was the name or the jewish country? If you say Israel, you are wrong. That land that makes up Israel was Palestinian homeland. The jews murdered them by the thousands drivimg them out of their own land. They are doing the same to the American people here in the USA at the present time. They own our newsmedia, our motion picture industry,control the banking, control our government, wrecked our economy, and have even killed some of us on 9-11-2001.
I don't claim to be an expert. I just have my opinion.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestWhat is a zionist? Is is just someone who believes the Bible?
#7. To: RickyJ (#5)
If church isn't peaceful, then leave. They are hypocrites.
#8. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#0)
On multiple occasions, we have heard people pray for men and women in the military, that they receive “special measures of protection” as they fight to “protect our freedoms” and “serve our country.”
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#9. To: RickyJ (#6)
What is a zionist? Is is just someone who believes the Bible?
#10. To: RickyJ (#5)
If church isn't peaceful, then leave. They are hypocrites.
#11. To: A K A Stone (#9)
God gave Israel to the Jews
#12. To: tom007 (#11)
#13. To: A K A Stone (#9)
#14. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#13)
#15. To: A K A Stone (#14)
(Edited)
The Bible does say that the Jews would return to Israel in the last days.
#16. To: RickyJ (#15)
Those "last days" happened over 2000 years ago. The "Jews" of today are using Christian's ignorance of that fact and the scriptures to literally get away with murder of whoever they chose to kill.
#17. To: A K A Stone (#16)
#18. To: Samuel Gray (#17)
#19. To: Samuel Gray (#17)
It's all fiction, you idiot. Actually, the world will only be a peaceful place when people who believe the drivel you and RJ believe are rounded up, put in camps and lobotomized (etc...).
#20. To: A K A Stone (#14)
#21. To: bush_is_a_moonie, all (#0)
How To Promote Peace in Your Church
#22. To: RickyJ (#15)
(Edited)
Those "last days" happened over 2000 years ago.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#23. To: A K A Stone (#12)
The unabomber (your hero) was a murderer.
#24. To: paddlefeet (#1)
if we cannot get the zionist cancer exorcised,we are doomed
#25. To: LACUMO (#24)
#26. To: tom007 (#23)
#27. To: Samuel Gray (#17)
It's all fiction, you idiot. Actually, the world will only be a peaceful place when people who believe the drivel you and RJ believe are rounded up, put in camps and lobotomized (etc...).
#28. To: A K A Stone, All (#9)
Ricky you have said repeatedly that Israel should be nuked. Killing millions of innocent people. By their fruit you will know them. Ricky your fruit is that of a wannabe murderer.
#29. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#20)
#30. To: LACUMO (#28)
I got a question for you Stoney. Who are the Arab peoples? Did God not Make them as well as the jews? You jews and jew lovers got a lot of repenting to do and you better do it before the big bang. Time is running out!
#31. To: A K A Stone (#27)
(Edited)
#32. To: Samuel Gray (#31)
#33. To: A K A Stone (#30)
I have no problem with Arabs. They are human and have human wants and needs like the rest of us. But when they get involved in Islam they are on the wrong track. Anyone can take a look at the Koran and see that it is an evil book that causes people to do evil things.
#34. To: A K A Stone, all (#29)
#35. To: LACUMO (#33)
That is a change from a few months ago when you were calling for the open slaughter or Palestinian people including innocent women and children. It was ok in your mind to murder theser people by the bushell and you cried holy hell if they retaliated and killed only a few murdering jews.
#36. To: Jethro Tull (#34)
His new name is Kareem of Wheat.
#37. To: LACUMO (#33)
You are right. Anyone can take a look at the Koran. How about the Talmud? Can anyone look at it? I heard no. Did I hear wrong? See, the problems is that both sides feel their religion is the correct one. That is what they are fighting over. For all Christian people know, both their religous book could be wrong and both could be evil. They both exercise and do evil things to each other and the jews go one step fruther and do evil things to all the rest of mankind. The best example is what theey have done to the USA to this point and apparently they aren't finished with us yet. Take a good look at Germany leading up to WW II and you will see how evil the jews were at that time. They joined in with Hitler and help kill other jews. I don't think the Arabs did any such thing.
#38. To: Jethro Tull (#34)
#39. To: A K A Stone (#35)
#40. To: Jethro Tull (#34)
His new name is Kareem of Wheat.
#41. To: A K A Stone (#32)
Unalienable is better.
#42. To: christine (#39)
no one would argue that, Stone, but the truth is Israel is not acting in only a defensive manner. they are aggressively offensive.
#43. To: Samuel Gray (#41)
#44. To: christine, A K A Stone (#39)
no one would argue that, Stone, but the truth is Israel is not acting in only a defensive manner. they are aggressively offensive.
#45. To: A K A Stone (#35)
I think you misinterpreted what I said. I basically said Israel has a right to defend itself. If people are launching rockets to hit their people. They have a right to fight back. Sometimes innocent people get killed. I don't like that. But it happens. If they didn't fight back their people would all be killed. They are a tiny country that is fighting for survival.
#46. To: abraxas (#44)
Yet, Stonie ignores the book he claims to know so much about.
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