4um: Americans Renew Call for Third Party

Fifty-eight percent of Americans, and 62% of Tea Party supporters, favor third partyb y Jeffrey M. Jones

PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans' desires for a third political party are as high as they have been in seven years. Fifty-eight percent of Americans believe a third major political party is needed because the Republican and Democratic Parties do a poor job of representing the American people. That is a significant increase from 2008 and ties the high Gallup has recorded for this measure since 2003.

The finding, based on an Aug. 27-30 USA Today/Gallup poll, comes at a time when Americans are widely dissatisfied with the way things are going in the United States and give relatively weak approval ratings to the president and Congress.

Though the rise in support for a third party could be linked to the Tea Party movement, Tea Party supporters are just about average in terms of wanting to see a third party created. Sixty-two percent of those who describe themselves as Tea Party supporters would like a third major party formed, but so do 59% of those who are neutral toward the Tea Party movement. Tea Party opponents are somewhat less likely to see the need for a third party.

The desire for a third party is fairly similar across ideological groups, with 61% of liberals, 60% of moderates, and 54% of conservatives believing a third major party is needed. That is a narrower gap than Gallup has found in the past; conservatives have typically been far less likely than liberals and moderates to support the creation of a third party.

Independents, as might be expected given their lack of primary allegiance to either of the two major parties, express a greater degree of support (74%) for a third party than do Republicans (47%) and Democrats (45%). Over time, independents have consistently been the political group most eager to see a third party formed. But each party group is more likely now than in 2008 to support the formation of a third major party. At that time, about two months before the presidential election, 38% of Democrats, 40% of Republicans, and 63% of independents thought a third party was necessary.

Election results in recent years and polls from this year indicate Americans are frustrated with the job the two major parties have been doing. In 2006, voters elected a Democratic majority in Congress to replace the Republican majority, and in 2008 they elected a Democratic president to replace an outgoing Republican president. Polling on voters' 2010 voting intentions suggests that they may be poised to replace the Democratic majority in Congress with a Republican majority. But that seems to be as much because voters are rejecting Democrats as embracing Republicans.

Given the lack of alternatives, it perhaps is no surprise that Americans' desires for a third party are as high as they've been in at least the last seven years. And while the formation of an official third party is not imminent, that desire may be manifested in voters' strong anti-incumbent sentiments this year.

Survey Methods Results for this USA Today/Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted Aug. 27-30, 2010, with a random sample of 1,021 adults, aged 18 and older, living in the continental U.S., selected using random-digit-dial sampling.

For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points.

Interviews are conducted with respondents on landline telephones (for respondents with a landline telephone) and cellular phones (for respondents who are cell phone-only). Each sample includes a minimum quota of 150 cell phone-only respondents and 850 landline respondents, with additional minimum quotas among landline respondents for gender within region. Landline respondents are chosen at random within each household on the basis of which member had the most recent birthday.

Samples are weighted by gender, age, race, education, region, and phone lines. Demographic weighting targets are based on the March 2009 Current Population Survey figures for the aged 18 and older non-institutionalized population living in continental U.S. telephone households. All reported margins of sampling error include the computed design effects for weighting and sample design.

In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.

There are a handful within ALL the Dems and Reps.....that little handful has been unable to do any good. Look around, Flintie, we have been screwed by the two party fraud that is perpetuated non stop on the MSM.

The handful of honest reps, like Ron Paul, could actually get some traction with Constitutional governance if we had a third party to assist.

No, it is far beyond the CFR top. This is why Ron Paul is often the LONE vote against UN idiocy and Watermelon Week and all sorts of shit we don't need or want and is often DESTRUCTIVE for the people.

We need a party to follow the Constitution and represent the people, a handful of Reps and Dems isn't cutting it. We need another option to the lesser of two evils.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

Here are some future election results if a 3rd party happens.
Dems- 40%.
Reps- 35%
3rd- 25%
YOU LOOSE.

Take over the Republicans, make it what you want.
The marxests did it to the Democrat party, so it can be done.
DO IT. It's being done now partially by the Tea Party. Reagan Conservatism isnt too far removed from "Classic Liberal".
Ron and Rand Paul are Republicans.
They know what I say is true.

Seriously, I've already gone to work on the Rep party in my state. It's TOO CORRUPT to fix. We implemented a rockin' platform, worked our butts off and jumped through all the hoops. When it came down to the vote and it was obvious that Nevada was going to Ron Paul, not McStain, the party "leaders" waltzed in and took the ballot box away AFTER the votes had been cast.

Dillo, you believe in it, so you should take it over. I no longer believe in it and I will find a more productive place for my energy. : )

You want a third party, start one when there are less chips on the table. What do you call the Teaparty candidates that are running as Republicans? No, you want a third party you do it after we've got a little gridlock.

You should listen to Armadillo, he's smarter than you, you might learn something.

When will that be? We've had at least five elections cycles that have only made things worse.

If a teaparty candidate speaks some truth on issues I would go for it, but I haven't heard too much of that. I will vote for Angle in NV because I know her record in NV gov.

I already explained what it is. If Ron Paul is the LONE vote for the Constitution, we have a problem Flintie. How did your pubbies do on stopping that banker bail-out? Pubbie POTUS pushed it through. Pubbies folded like cards for some banker cash.

I look at the record. Gee Flintie you had a Pubbie in the Oval and control of both houses--what did you get? MASSIVE increase in government, spending like drunken sailors, two bullshit wars, no accountability, patriot act, military commissions act, crapping on the Constitution.........

Yet, you think they are going to "change" for the better. You're as much of a dupe as the Dems in 2008, thinking they would get something different from a Obama and a Dem majority to "fix" that stinking pile of crap. No surprise, the only change is that the pile is bigger.

Dems who demonstrates integrity and honesty in their actions, even if I don't agree with their votes or stances, would include: Kucinich and Sanders.

Soon to have company. We didn't lose this country overnight, we're not going to get it back overnight,

Bernie Sanders the hardcore socialist who is the head of the Progressive Caucus and Kucinich? You're kidding, right.

They were the stinking majority!! Did they STOP IT? Nope. Like I said, Pubbie POTUS and seven pubbies made it happen.

We were discussing HONEST. Bernie calls himself a socialist himself, so how could he be more honest?

I didn't say they are "heros" moron, I said they were honest in their positions, unlike the rest of them.

You're talking Senate and I'm talking House. The Senate has been inherently corrupt since the passage of the 17th Amendment.

The House was controlled by RATS and they passed the bill, the majority of Republicans voted against it

So you think you should vote third party this cycle? Who gave you that idea, the DNC?

I understand about what McCain did last election. He and the party did a lot of crap like that.
That dosnt mean the whole party is like that. There are some good people in the Repubs, like the Pauls, who want to take it back.

It's time for me to clock-out, go home, and sleep.
I'll convince you tomorrow. ;)
Good night.

The arguments that you use against third parties could just as easily be applied to the tea party. If the only thing that matters is having a Republican majority in both houses of Congress then you should nominate the person who has the best chance of winning the general election. If all that the tea party accomplishes is to help fringe candidates win Republican primaries, who then go on to lose in November, then the tea party is helping the Democrats.

but it's not. That's what I'm trying to tell you. We have been trying to retake our own political party for a while now. It was infiltrated and taken over by a CIA plant. He is impossible to get rid of. He already killed the reform party by doing the same thing he is doing to our party. Understand he is connected to the same people in control of the Republican party. They do not play by the rules. And when you catch them with the rules they change them. How do you get those in control of the party out?

"Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.
Senator Jacob Howard, Co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, 1866.

Is the CIA plants infiltration ability limited to only two parties?
What makes you think a "3rd party" couldnt be infiltrated?

People talk about a 3rd party as if it's some magical incorruptible panacea.
It's not. It would be yet another political party with everything that goes with that. Politics in America has been like that for 200 years, and it's not going to change because Farmfriend, Abraxas, or Armadillo have good intentions.

Y'all are also avoiding the point I've been making. If a 3rd party splits the vote, you give Democrats a perpetual win by plurality. You believe Dems and Reps are the same, so the 3rd party would accomplish nothing except enabling what you seek to end.
Roughly 30% of the electorate are dedicated leftists. Another 30% are dedicated rightists. The rest are swing voters. By splitting the right and swing vote you win nothing, and create what you seek to stop.
All talk of a 3rd party is irrelevant unless you can find a way to win. And you cant.

The Democrats have to be responsive to their voters because they are a collection of special interest activists who protest anything.
The Republicans did not have to be responsive because their voters were passive. A Repub voter might write a stern letter, but that's it.

With the Tea Party that has changed. They are not a "3rd party" per se, but are trying to RETAKE and REMAKE the Republican Party by putting forward non-Rino candidates.
The sleeper has awakened. Formerly passive right voters are becoming active. With Tea Party backing, candidates are challenging Rino Republicans for their nomination.
It's a good start.

Perot spokesman leaving job in another sign of demise of Reform Party.(The Dallas Morning News)

DALLAS _ Ross Perot spokesman Russell Verney is leaving his job as Perot's political right arm in what some experts say is another sign of demise for the Reform Party created by the Dallas billionaire.

Judicial Watch, a Washington-based public interest legal and governmental watchdog group, is expected to announce at a news conference Thursday that it is hiring Verney to open a Southwest office in Dallas. The group had no comment Wednesday.

"I am moving on," said Verney, who was campaign chairman for Perot's 1996 presidential run and founding chairman of the Reform Party. He first signed on with Perot in the fall of 1992, becoming director of United We Stand America, the forerunner to the Reform Party.

Verney's move, some experts said, signals an end to Perot's active involvement in the party and could help nail the coffin on the party as a national force.

Verney acknowledged that the Reform Party has declined, along with Perot's need for a full-time adviser.

"There aren't many remnants of it left," he said.

Pat Buchanan, the party's 2000 presidential nominee, won less than 1 percent of the vote, compared with Perot's 19 percent in 1992, when he launched the movement that became the Reform Party. The party has ballot status in only 10 states and no federal funding for the 2004 presidential campaign.

George Edwards, director of the Center for Presidential Studies at Texas A&M University, said the party's performance in the last election "indicates it's not a good investment, and Ross Perot is certainly someone who likes a good investment."

For several years, Verney served as the conduit between Perot and the Reform Party. However, a party split reduced the Perot-Verney influence, and Verney fought what he called the Buchanan "takeover."

National Reform Chairman Gerry Moan of Arizona said Verney has not supported the party since its national nominating convention last summer.

As for Perot, days before the November election, he made a surprise endorsement of GOP nominee George W. Bush. He was out of town and unavailable for comment Wednesday.

Buchanan, meanwhile, has kept an arm's length from the party since his candidacy.

"That Buchanan is standing back, Perot is withdrawing further from it, and Verney is leaving to take this other job means the Reform Party is a collection of state Reform parties _ some of which may have local influence, some of which will simply die away," said political scientist Cal Jillson.

"As a national force, I think they are spent," the Southern Methodist University professor said.

But he credits Perot with changing the course of American politics in the early 1990s.

"He scared both political parties sober," he said of Perot, contributing to the strong economic performance of the 1990s.

But, he said, Perot's heart was not in the 1996 presidential race and he receded from party involvement, allowing others such as Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura and Buchanan to try to remake the party in their image. "Only Perot could protect it from interlopers. When he decided not to, the game was over."

Moan, however, said the party has "a lot of activity going on," including support of local candidates and working for campaign finance reform and a boycott of Chinese goods.

It has been. That is my point. They infiltrate and destroy third parties from within to insure they are not a threat. It happened to the Green party, Reform party and now AIP.

The people who caused that split are now doing it in the American Independent Party. Divide and conquer. The American Independent Party is the third largest party in the US. Up until 08 we were affiliated with the Constitution party. No more. Our official affiliation is now with the new party Alan Keyes started.

So, the Pubbies get the majority again. What is your expectation? That they are actually going to limit government and stop the wasteful spending? Stop warring? End the Patriot Act? LOL.....prepare for disappointment, Dillo.

No, I said there were only a handful of HONEST Dems and Reps.......nothing about respect, Flintie. However, you can respect an honest person even if you don't agree with their politics. Sanders voted no on TARP, so that right there shows he was brighter than the majority of dems. lol

Yeah right, Comrade Bernie voted no for all the wrong reasons. He's a die hard socialist that would turn the country into an even more leftist version of Canada, and you respect this guy?

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Ok.
How do you propose to prevent that happening in any other 3rd party?
How can such a party hope to win anything when it is fighting others externally and itself internally?

Seems like a good reason to support my idea. Retake and remake the Republican party. Do to them what they are doing to your 3rd party.
The marxests did it to the Democrat party in one election cycle. We can do the same thing to the Republican party, in the other direction.

It does not matter if the TP want a third party.
What they are doing is implementing my idea, trying to RETAKE and REMAKE the Republican party.

Do you think the Democrats will limit government, stop spending, and end the Patriot Act while your 3rd party is ensuring the Dems win?

My expectation is we RETAKE and REMAKE the Republican party into something that will limit government and stop spending.
I may end up being disappointed, but no more than from a 3rd party caused permanent Dem majority.

Isnt it better to try something that MIGHT succeed, than something guaranteed to fail?
The 3rd party is guaranteed to fail, for reasons I've already posted too many times. Also, Farmfriend is concerned about infiltrators. Do you think they will sit back and let a 3rd party succeed?

The Tea Partiers are already showing some success, we'll find out soon if the Tea Party Repubs can win and keep their promisses.
If they can, your 3rd party is moot.

Get to work on it. As I said, I already DID WORK TOWARD THIS END. Waste of time, but it opened my eyes to the level of corruption. Not long after all that hard work, we had Pubbies in the Oval and both houses. They made everything worse and I already provided details. If they have complete control, and do the exact OPPOSITE of what the party is supposed to represent, then it's really silly to put any faith in them again, IMHO. It's just too corrupt to repair, like an old sewer line--it needs to be taken out, to much crap clogging the line to ream it out again.

The problem is, there are two sewer lines. The other is the Dems.
While you're tearing out the GOP, before you have time to finish the other one has buried you in poop.

All of this is probably moot anyway.
Too much debt to ever pay back. We're just screwed.

It's just too corrupt to repair, like an old sewer line--it needs to be taken out, to much crap clogging the line to ream it out again.

I have a hard headed buddy out in California that finally got really involved and ran for some dog catcher position. He found that even at the VERY LOWEST LEVELS the corruption is widespread and insurmountable. I had tried to tell him this 16 years before he ran for office.

He was a REPUBLICAN that was ostracized for being conservative by the high level guys. Compromise is their weapon ... and that's tantamount to making a deal with the devil when you're dealing with socialists.

Dillo, I'm tearing out BOTH and opting for something other than what the two party fraud has to offer.

Having once thought like you, that the Rep party just needed to be taken over by good folks who would right it, I now see my own naivete. However, I was never so naive as to think the Dems could overcome their corruption. I see now that both are worthless corporate whores set on destroying this nation. I can't in good conscience, continue to vote for the lesser of these two evils when I know both are rotten to the core.

Yes, I agree, we're screwed. They have been dismantling our Constitution for decades, both parties, while people continue to banter about who is less evil,

I agree, even down to the local levels, it's a shell game. I have many friends pushing me to run for office. No thanks, I say. I'm not good at brown nosing or living in a bubble or being PC or selling out for campaign cash or compromise when I know it's wrong.

No, you're not. As I've shown, a 3rd party will have little effect on the Dems, other than to make them win by plurality.
Unless you've found a way to make dedicated leftests vote for a 3rd party that supports everything they are against.
Your way- you get burried in poop in the yard.
My way- inside the house with a RotoRooter cleaning out the crap.