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Editorial
See other Editorial Articles

Title: The Battle for the Future Combating progressive fairy tales
Source: reason.com
URL Source: http://reason.com/archives/2010/09/23/the-battle-for-the-future
Published: Sep 23, 2010
Author: John Stossel
Post Date: 2010-09-25 17:19:59 by F.A. Hayek Fan
Keywords: None
Views: 282
Comments: 27

For most of the life of America, and when it grew fastest, government spent just a few hundred dollars per person. Today, the federal government alone spends $10,000. Politicians talk about cuts, but the cuts rarely happen. The political class always needs more.

I see the pressure. All day, Congress listens to people who say they need and deserve help.

The cost of any one program per taxpayer is small, but the benefits are concentrated on well-organized interest groups. It's tough for a weak politician to say no.

But maybe things are changing. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), believes that "more and more people in America are beginning to wake up to the fact that this thing is coming unglued."

I asked Ryan why his colleagues say it's OK to spend more. Are they just stupid? Don't they care? Or are they pandering for votes?

"Pandering could be a part of it," he said. "But ... they believe that the government should be far larger." They are taught that by the progressives who rule academia, like Columbia University Professor Marc Lamont Hill.

"We have to make sure that the most vulnerable people are always protected," Hill says. “Everyone benefits when we pay a little bit more to create universal health care. Everyone benefits when we pay a little more to have better public education systems."

Progressives use the word "we" too often. When I argued that "we" and "government" are not the same, he said, "We always talk about the government like it's this monster in the hills that comes down and hands things out and takes our tax money."

Well, yes.

Those are "libertarian fairy tales," Hill says. "In real life, the government is us."

Government is not "us." Well, it's us in the sense that we pay the bills. But it ain't us. It's them, the policy elite and their patrons.

What percent of the economy does Hill think government should be?

"For me, housing, health care and education, in addition to national defense, are things that the government must provide for people. So if that means 20 percent, I'm OK with it. If it means 30 percent, I'm OK with it. I don't think it'll ever get that big."

Give me a break. It's already at 40 percent!

All that spending is taken from your and my pockets—some in taxes, much in sneakier ways like government borrowing. The national debt—now $13 trillion—simply represents future taxes or the erosion of the dollar.

Yet progressives want us to pay more. One woman activist told our camera, "It costs to live in a civilized society, and we all need to pay our fair share."

Our "fair share" sounds good. Progressives say taking from the rich to help the poor is simply fair.

I put that to Arthur Brooks, who heads the American Enterprise Institute.

"No, the fairest system is the one that rewards the makers in society as opposed to rewarding the takers in society."

Brooks wrote The Battle, which argues that the fight between free enterprise and big government will shape our future.

"The way that our culture is moving now is toward more redistribution, toward more progressive taxation, exempting more people from paying anything, and loading more of the taxes onto the very top earners in our society."

But it seems "kind" to take it away from wealthier people and give it to those who need it more.

"Actually, it's not," Brooks says. "The government does not create wealth. It uses wealth that's been created by the private sector."

He warns that "Americans are in open rebellion today because the government is threatening to take us from a maker nation into taker nation status."

Americans in "open rebellion"? I'm skeptical. Handouts create fierce constituencies. The Tea Party movement is wonderful, but it takes strength to say no to government freebies. When I've said to Tea Partiers, "We should cut Medicare, eliminate agriculture subsidies, kill entire federal agencies," the enthusiasm usually fades from their eyes.

I hope that I am wrong and Brooks is right.

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#1. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#0) (Edited)

He warns that "Americans are in open rebellion today because the government is threatening to take us from a maker nation into taker nation status."

Be a giver
not a taker
Give some oatmeal to a...starving Quaker

Don 't be greedy, a vicious loon, share your bankroll, with a ****

Everyone, sing along...!

"Fear of death is form of stasis horrors. The dead weight of time." - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2010-09-25   17:28:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#0)

1. Americans in "open rebellion"? I'm skeptical. Handouts create fierce constituencies.

2. The Tea Party movement is wonderful, but it takes strength to say no to government freebies.

1. Until the welfare state collapses. Then government is in a real bind. On one side are the workers whom have been bankrupted by government to shell out for welfare whores, and on the other side are the welfare whores whom are angry at government for not getting their weekly welfare checks.

And folks, we are about to that point. It will probably happen this year or next year, with all the taxes increasing and cost on all products and services going up.

2. John Stossel does not get that it that it is the Tea Party members that are having their wealth stolen by government to pay for those welfare checks.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-09-25   18:46:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: PaulCJ, 4 (#2)

The welfare checks are chicken-feed compared with the warfare checks they're writing.

Lod  posted on  2010-09-26   12:40:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Lod (#3)

The welfare checks are chicken-feed compared with the warfare checks they're writing.

Actually, you got that reversed, when you factor in social security, which is not including in the federal budget.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-09-26   15:54:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Lod (#3)

The welfare checks are chicken-feed compared with the warfare checks they're writing.

That should be emblazoned in large block letters at every Tea Party event:

The welfare checks are chicken-feed compared with the warfare checks they're writing.

While I am not a big fan of government hand outs to support those unwilling to work the reality is that the budget for the Military Industrial Complex is easily ten or 20 times the amount of the hand out programs. Agriculture subsidies are equal or larger than the "social" spending. Even as bloated as Obamacare is you could pay for it for ten years just out of the spending on Military/Intelligence Agency items for one year.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-09-26   16:05:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: PaulCJ (#4)

Actually, you got that reversed, when you factor in social security, which is not including in the federal budget.

Social Security is self funding. The only reason it is now a problem is that the Congress stole the money to give away for the Blood Budget.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-09-26   16:06:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: PaulCJ (#4)

Actually, you got that reversed

Paul, year in and year out, the US government "borrows" from SS to pay for wars. This is so the people don't know the real cost and get all uppity. They don't want to pay for it and the people are generally too stupid to know how it is funded. TRILLIONS have been borrowed. Each and every year, since Carter, any and all excess from what is paid out to SS recipients is SPENT.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-09-26   16:11:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: abraxas (#7)

Paul, year in and year out, the US government "borrows" from SS to pay for wars.

Actually, year in year out, the U.S. government borrows to pay the difference for the WHOLE budget.

You believe a classic propagandist trick. They make a graph. What is shaded is what is paid for. What is in the non-shaded part is borrowed for.

And then they play around with the graft until what they like (welfare) is in the shaded part, and most of what they don't like is in the non-shaded part (military).

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-09-26   16:19:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Original_Intent (#6)

Social Security is self funding.

Fall out of chair laughing.

To many retirees and not enough young workers.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-09-26   16:20:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: PaulCJ (#8)

You believe a classic propagandist trick.

Paul you are kidding yourself. Since Carter, every penny beyond payout has been wasted despite all this nonsense about a "trust fund" for the people.

If you don't believe me, check out what the last Comptroller of the United States, David M. Walker, had to say about it.....

You are duped by what the idiots in DC tell you Paul. This fellow spent a decade trying to wake up people just like you. He said that refusing to stop stealing from the funds would result in bankrupting this nation. He said this was a far greater theat than any terrorist or wars we are funding with the excess.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-09-26   16:26:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: abraxas (#10)

Paul you are kidding yourself.

No, I am trying to explain to you how dirty these political tricks are.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-09-26   16:29:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: PaulCJ, abraxas (#9)

Social Security is self funding.

Fall out of chair laughing.

To many retirees and not enough young workers.

Which is why the withholding rate was increased along with the upper limit subject to the withholding. Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan ensured that by authoring, and getting passed by the House and Senate, a bill to do just that and to provide for the future bulge in payouts.

Congress stole the money leaving I.O.U.'s in the cash box.

Sufficient money was collected, but it was all S-P-E-N-T.

That does not mean I am a big fan of Social Security as it is a bad deal - the return on investment sucks. Had the money been properly invested it could have paid an even larger benefit without one penny coming out of the general fund. For a short time States and Municipalities were able to opt out and invest the money as they wish. One town in Texas did that and their payout is much higher for the same amount of money invested than Social Security.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-09-26   16:51:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#0)

The Tea Party movement is wonderful, but it takes strength to say no to government freebies

social security cost per year total is under $800 billion. Medicare can't be $300 billion (I think). the latest annual budget deficit was $1.4 trillion. You could eliminate these 2 programs and would not balance the budget. We have a run-a-way spending problem true. but IMHO it is not with the give-away programs.

Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-09-26   17:08:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: PaulCJ, Lod (#2)

weekly welfare checks

Lod is right. the welfare checks are a miniscule drop in the bucket. Government is far more likely to transfer income to upper income people than to lower income people. and its big spending items are defense & debt service. Between all defense related spending plus the debt service cost made necessary by the defense spending is 53% of our federal budget. spending on the poor is a very small share by comparison. let us also recall that the big social spending programs are social security and medicare, those 2 programs have associated with them the payroll taxes that used to be dedicated to those programs. but about 25 years ago government started taking that money from the payroll tax that had been dedicated to social security/medicare and spent the money elsewhere. point is - people are hot to cut social security & medicare, but we have a tax already dedicated to that, people have paid in and the money taken. Government essentially forced people to contribute towards insurance in the case hey needed health care or retirement check, and the money was taken by government, diverted elsewhere.

Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-09-26   17:14:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Original_Intent (#5)

Agriculture subsidies are equal or larger than the "social" spending

that is correct. and just about every farmer receiving that aid also has a net worth of a million dollars or more. I'm all for stable food prices and don't want to see the farmers get hurt, but they have received huge government largesse, and they are very much upper income people.

Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-09-26   17:16:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Red Jones (#13)

social security cost per year total is under $800 billion. Medicare can't be $300 billion (I think). the latest annual budget deficit was $1.4 trillion. You could eliminate these 2 programs and would not balance the budget. We have a run-a-way spending problem true. but IMHO it is not with the give-away programs.

Besides the fact that there is no Constitutional authority for the government to put a gun to my head and steal money from my family in order to give it to yours, in the 2009 budget, social security made up a full 20% of the budget and medicaid/medicare made up 19%. You are fooling yourself if you think that they are not a problem that will only get worse as more and more baby boomers retire.

No one said that the elimination of these two programs would balance the budget. Eliminate these two programs, reduce defense spending by 80%, eliminate the 12% of discretionary spending that is unconstitutional, the 17% of "other" mandatory expenditures that is not constitutional, the 4% Tarp spending, and we would not only have a balanced budget, we would have a surplus.

This site is pretty cool because it will let you manipulate expenditures in order to see the effect it would have on the budget.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-09-26   17:46:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#16)

that is a pretty cool site. Medicare is a lot more expensive than I thought.

Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-09-26   17:50:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Original_Intent (#12)

Which is why the withholding rate was increased along with the upper limit subject to the withholding.

That is not enough. You don't get it. There isn't enough money in U.S. privately held wealth to pay for the bills government is creating.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-09-26   18:01:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Red Jones (#17)

Medicare is a lot more expensive than I thought.

Yes and it will only grow as more and more boomers retire. As you probably already know, there are not enough workers to replace the retiring boomers, so if it keeps going the way it is, the government will no choice but to either cut benefits, raise taxes, or continue to add to the deficit. Since the boomers and what's left of the greatest parasite generation are the largest voting block I do not see benefits being cut. So that leaves raising taxes and/or adding to the deficit. As the working population continues to decrease while the non-working population increases, there will come a point where raising taxes will no longer be an option because there won't be enough workers to tax.

Leaving out the question of constitutionality (not that this issue seems to matter anymore) I do not see how it is sustainable.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-09-26   18:01:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Red Jones (#14)

Lod is right. the welfare checks are a miniscule drop in the bucket.

No, they are not.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-09-26   18:02:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: PaulCJ (#20)

Lod is right. the welfare checks are a miniscule drop in the bucket.

No, they are not.

While they are wrong in saying that welfare is a "drop in the bucket" neither are you correct in dismissing defense spending. Defense spending made up 23% of the federal budget.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-09-26   18:06:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#21)

Defense spending made up 23% of the federal budget.

and I'm not sure if that included supplementary war funding bills. did it include military retirees' pensions? and did it include intelligence spending?

I've read that all military related spending including the debt service expense is 53% of the current budget. I think military retirees is over 15% of the federal budget.

Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-09-26   18:14:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: PaulCJ, 4 (#20)

Paul -

Trust us, but verify, welfare is nothing compared with warfare.

That's acknowledged warfare spending, not including all the off-budget, black-budget expenditures.

It truly pales in comparison.

Lod  posted on  2010-09-26   18:16:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Red Jones (#22)

and I'm not sure if that included supplementary war funding bills. did it include military retirees' pensions? and did it include intelligence spending?

I've read that all military related spending including the debt service expense is 53% of the current budget. I think military retirees is over 15% of the federal budget.

The graph doesn't say one way or the other. It's a pretty broad pie chart. While it may be larger than reported, 53% doesn't seem like a realistic number.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-09-26   18:18:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Lod (#23)

welfare is nothing compared with warfare.

You can take a slide ruler and put it against the debt now and the debt when LBJ started the "great welfare state", and see what I am talking about.

It is the welfare state that is killing this nation.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-09-26   19:39:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: PaulCJ (#25)

Paul, at the same time that Lyndon's Great Society was launched, we became fully engaged in the jungles of SE Asia.

Those, and all our other overt, and covert, military operations around the world completely dwarf our domestic welfare programs.

That's all that I have to say about this.

Lod  posted on  2010-09-26   21:09:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Lod (#26) (Edited)

Paul, at the same time that Lyndon's Great Society was launched, we became fully engaged in the jungles of SE Asia.

You point to one thing. I point to the other.

And it is the welfare that is bleeding us dry.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-09-26   21:13:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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