See other War, War, War Articles
Title: Army's largest base reeling from four apparent suicides in one weekend
Source:
[None]
URL Source: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/29/texas.fort.hood.deaths/index.html
Published: Sep 29, 2010
Author: CNN
Post Date: 2010-09-29 23:58:58 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 749
Comments: 53
Four soldiers from Fort Hood, Texas died over the week. In all four cases, it appears the soldiers, all decorated veterans from the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, took their own lives, according to Christopher Haug, a Fort Hood spokesman. If confirmed as suicides, it would be on top of 14 other suicides on the base this year. Base officials called a news conference for Wednesday afternoon to discuss the problem of suicides at the huge base in central Texas. "Every one of these is tragic," said Maj. Gen. William Grimsley, the post commander. "It's personally and professionally frustrating as a leader." Grimsley did not announce any major action or response during the news conference. "I don't think there is a simple answer," he said. The recent spate of incidents, began Friday Sept. 24 when the body of Pvt. Antonio E. Heath, 24, of Warren, New York, was found in Temple, Texas, the victim of a gunshot wound. Heath was deployed to Iraq for most of 2009 and earned a number of medals including the Army Commendation Medal. The next day, Master Sgt. Baldemar Gonzales, 39, of Victoria, Texas was found dead in his residence on Fort Hood. During his service he had fought in Operation Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom. During that time he earned a Bronze Star, a Meritorious Service Medal with one oak leaf cluster, an Army Commendation Medal with four oak leaf clusters as well as numerous other decorations. That same day the body of Sgt. Timothy Ryan Rinella, 29, of Chester, Virginia, was found in his home in Copperas Cove, just outside of Fort Hood. He had an "apparent gunshot wound," according to information released by Fort Hood. Rinella served three tours of duty in Iraq and one tour in Afghanistan. And then on Sunday, Sgt. Michael F. Franklin and his wife, Jessie, were found dead of apparent gunshot wounds in their home on the post. The case is being investigated as a murder-suicide. They were the parents of a 6-year-old daughter and 2-year-old son. Franklin served two tours of duty in Iraq in just the past four years, earning an Army Commendation Medal with two oak leaf clusters and several other decorations. The entire U.S, military has been focused for years on trying to stop or reduce suicides among service members. At times some have speculated that troops wouldn't seek help for emotional or mental problems because it would stigmatize them in the eyes of their comrades in arms and their commanders. But that didn't always appear to be the case at Fort Hood this past weekend. "Early indications are, in at least two of the cases, and I can't speak definitively about the others, a couple had been in counseling for certain things," Grimsley said. He said the pace of Army operations, caused in large part by fighting two wars simultaneously over many years, may be one "stresser" leading to more suicides. "We are certainly a busier force as we've ever been in my career, you put those and the other stressors of life, with finances and relationships and everything else, it's a tough life. It is a tough life," he said. It's yet more violence for Fort Hood, which was the site of the worst shooting on an American military base in decades. On November 5 of last year, a gunman opened fire in a building on the post, killing 12 people and injuring dozens of others. Maj. Nidal Hasan, an Army psychiatrist was shot and paralyzed by police who responded to the incident and is facing murder charges in the case. Grimsley doesn't see a link between the the suicides and the shooting last year. "I don't draw a correlation, it's clearly in our respective psyches and will be for life. But so are all of the other things that have gone on here." The first testimony in Hasan's pre-trial hearing is set to start in two weeks.
Poster Comment: my God, what is going on!
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-12) not displayed.
.
.
.
#13. To: Lysander_Spooner, wudidiz, christine, Jethro_Tull (#1)
Grimsley, how apropos, another in a long line of Merchants of Death. I'm certain his paycheck is direct deposited, and the wheels of 'State' continue to grind up sons and daughters and innocents; mentally, emotionally, and physically while the profiteers collect their profits. War is a racket. Soldiers are pawns. Two quotes worth Googling. Peace. L_S went to the root of the problem. The article reads as if there is a serious effort to isolate the causes of these suicides, but there isn't. As soon as a soldier starts whimpering or otherwise signaling that he's reaching critical mass he's immediately told to buck up and threatened with humiliating, emasculating consequences in order to minimize the costs of this war for BIG OIL, USA CORP and The Pentagram. If these poor, tormented souls would only take officers, company men non coms or psychiatrists who "help them cope" with them, in no time at all the military would reverse their endless tours policy in these absurdly stressful Hellholes. But, as long as officers are spared the consequences of their cowardly refusal to stand up to the civilians who are using troops up and discarding them, the war machine will continue to "tsk tsk" and pretend that the issue is a "priority" for the brass. How many generals, colonels, shrinks or career non coms would have to be sacrificed before the policy changed? Not many. One would be an "epidemic" and two or three would inspire serious concern about the problems in places with crushed velvet chairs, places where profits are calculated but where the true costs of these wars are considered poor taste to mention. Sadly, these victims probably feel that they let the military down rather than vice versa, and some murder their loved ones when they bottom out instead of "making statements that will reverberate in the halls of corporate government". Once a general or colonel can no longer be guaranteed his heroic legacy and comfy retirement because he's as likely as any grunt to die as a consequence of the policy, then the "Egyptians won't be able to erect any more pyramids because there will be no overseers to manage the workforce." Ask yourself this question: If the overseers died as frequently as the slaves who moved those giant stones, would there be such a place as "The Valley Of The Kings"?
F anatical E vil D emons E xtracting R evenue A nd L ives
"ALL things FEDERAL originate in hell. All FEDS work for the European inbred Jewish/Royal Families of international bankers that take their orders from Lucifer. American Taxpayers pay their tithes and forfeit their souls to this cabal of shit-eating, baby-killing scum".
I will agree that soldiers are pawns and that war is a racket. but there are virtually no people in the US military who fit the description 'merchants of death'. they are just the soldiers, pretty well paid, but they generally believe in what they're doing in that they believe it is legitimate 'nations business'. they deserve more from us than systematic disrespect. Many of them are deceived victims in reality. That is why some of them feel so bad.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
my nephew is an officer in the US Marines. He told me recently that the Marines will give out drugs to their people for combat. the drugs will keep people wide awake for 72 hours continuous allowing fighting that whole time. In combat sometimes that is a huge advantage because a firefight can last for many hours. and you have to be super-focused the whole time. the NAZIs gave their soldiers similar drugs back in 1940/1941. as the war went on they discontinued it, money was an issue for them. for us it is not, we can borrow forever remember? Henry Kissinger who feels that military men are dumb animals to be sacrificed for government policy would think it OK to give a soldier crystal meth to get them to function well in combat. But I don't think that our creator wants us to live that way. The drugs of course do more than just keep you up. It makes you feel that it is very easy to kill people. and then the military doctors also give drugs out for other reasons, so the soldiers can cope when it is over. but a good career soldier will learn to use that meth-like drug they give you only for combat and be clean the rest of the time. They devote themselves. and their mindset is such that they don't even understand that they are contributing to something very evil.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
you're an idiot shoonra.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
thats it. plus the fact that they likely feel that our society at large through our leading institutions including government & mass media have urged them into the military, built their incentives to make it seem like a good idea and sent them to war. where they are 'the dogs of war'. and it is highly stressful when it goes on year after year, multiple deployments for no real good cause. Our society does not support these soldiers. Our society demands and orchestrates that thy go kill and be killed. this is not supportive of them. this is destructive to them.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
I appreciate your views and am sympathetic. but I can't condone soldiers killing their commanders as in fragging in vietnam. I knew a man once who was a lieutenant colonel in charge of a 500 man infantry battalian in vietnam. He went out with his men on patrols and occasionally took the point. When they tried to overrun his camp as in the John Wayne movie 'the green beret' he was the one who jumped onto the steel building's roof after the perimeter had been completely compromised and ran back and forth in the night shooting his gun while others were hiding preparing for the end. He saved that camp. When that guy came back from vietnam he was insane. but it was temporary and he was a general within a few months. The US military is full of very stout people who do their jobs. but it is just their job and they are instructed by the civilian leadership of our country. even though the wars are wrong, I can't be disloyal to these people.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
I like that FEDERAL explanation you have. perhaps the only good military causes we had in our history were the revolution and the civil war from the southern point of view where they fought against the federal monster.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Sec. Gates this week said that something has to be done to halt the excess money being paid soldiers. To me that smells like a draft. It will come and then watch the anti war people come out of their burrows.
I remember the drugs were discontinued because they made the men crazy after a while.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Very good.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. The murderous tyrant Lincoln killed 600,000 people for no good reason. The slaves would have been freed anyway. And destroying the regions they lived in wasn't doing them any great favors. And Lincoln didn't care about slavery anyway because he was a lifelong Clay Whig. You can see the genocide of the Plains Indians under his successors and with the troops and officers from the Civil War as the fulfillment of his actual policy. The conflicts at the time was fierce over the admission of new states as slave states. But that didn't justify killing so many and setting the stage for militarism and for the absolute corruption of the Constitution that happened and has been extended since in the name of the national security state and, now, the global empire of military garrisons and so-called nation building.
I agree with you about Lincoln. they should've just left it up to the states completely including the new ones if slavery were legal or not. The institution would've died anyway as you said and because by 1850 the slavery institution was not economical. It was more economical by then to hire free labor than to support slave labor. And every decade that was becoming more true. Without the civil war the southerners themselves would've gotten rid of that institution, just a matter of time. Obviously in hindsight, we can see that the federal monster has been very costly.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
But Hitler took them right up to the end, his quack doctor Morell mixed various cocktails of these dangerous drugs. You see the same thing with JFK, another drug-addled charismatic leader like Hitler.
It will at least start as communitarian universal service with the military as an option, probably with greater benefits. Just like now with Americorps or Peace Corps, some benefits but not as great as for military service. Then they'll limit the number of non-military slots available and the civilian slots will somehow magically be limited to the offspring of the political elite, leaving the poor and middle-class to fill the military ranks in the empire's armies, dying for nation building and other profoundly un-American ideas. I think the country might easily become ungovernable. Involuntary servitude is not liberty. And nothing in the Constitution authorizes anything close to the draft or universal service outside of national emergency, like a congressionally declared war with universal military conscription or an outbreak of armed civil conflict. Strangely enough, I seem to recall your remarks of seeing draftees hauled away in chains. Do you want to see it again?
I wont be around to see it. Perhaps you will. It is a sight that one never forgets. I recall seeing it at least twice. There was one thing in common both times, utter silence, just the chains dragging the concrete. No one watching had anything to say, then nor later, but it never left our minds.
I will concede that point. However, the deceiver, The State, has historically lied repetitively and consistently. The deceived want to believe the lies, they deceive themselves to a degree. It is a damn shame and an awful situation. I am thankful that my 21 year old sons don't buy into the war propaganda which at its root is nothing more than fabricated profiteering at best.
Sounds like he found an outlet for his condition. I don't have much empathy for the officer class of any nation. That includes my own. They take and give orders and lead ordinary folks into places where they probably shouldn't be in the first place. The officer class should know better. If they were CITIZENS first, and not soldiers first, perhaps we wouldn't be in the s**t that we're in today. They should obey their oath to the Constitution.
I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. Thank you. - Roman Moroni
No one watching had anything to say, then nor later, but it never left our minds. This is why I object when people try to paint the entire German people as Hitler's accomplices. I imagine they were silent too in the face of naked totalitarianism, of a state that used a Stumg und Drang policy against any dissenters or targeted minorities. It was simply too late to object to anything. They had made their deal with the devil.
How much do you want to bet all of these guys were on psychiatric drugs, which have the side effect of murder/suicide?
“In the world we have the Baddie-Do-Badders and the Goodie-Do-Gooders. More often than not it is the Goodie-Do-Gooders who cause the most harm to themselves and their fellow human beings.”
Anti-war protestors were guillotined for activities like anonymously distributing leaflets or using the mails to send out anti-government broadsides. Some of the people that did these things were veterans. These people had real guts. They went to their deaths with their heads held high.
I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. Thank you. - Roman Moroni
I'd bet they are working hard to keep us from finding out. First order of business is probably to go to their quarters and remove all the meds. Try to scrub the records. Try to keep the families and other troops from talking about it.
I'm not going to argue with you because perhaps I don't disagree. but in defense of the military people I will say that we generally have flawed people all over the place. the military people are no different in that respect.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Not that simple. There was an ongoing struggle between fascists for power, communists and nazis. The Nazis won short term, the communist won in the end, long term, shooting those that wanted out.
On a totally, completely, cynical point of view - Since the bad outcomes of taking these chemical cocktails are well-known and documented, and knowing the horrible results of ingesting DU, could these be planned and desired results for our military grunts?
I would say no, with no real reference either way.
I hope and pray you're correct.
Not that simple. There was an ongoing struggle between fascists for power, communists and nazis. The Nazis won short term, the communist won in the end, long term, shooting those that wanted out. It's hard for us to imagine the effect of the Red Terror in the East had on the peoples of Western Europe. Why do you think Belgians and Frenchmen and Norwegians joined the SS? I think it was a "deal with the devil." But no one makes a deal with a devil on a lark. Men do such things when they fear another devil of some sort clawing at the hem of their garment.
I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. Thank you. - Roman Moroni
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Wasn't that the same defense set forth at the Nuremburg trials? Didn't the U.S.Military / U.S. Government stridently tell the world that such a defense as "I was just following orders" was never again to be accepted as a defense?
"The 'uniter' has brought the entire world together - to despise and deride us." lod
point i do think the psychotropics they take is a huge factor.
The Communists had visions of going to Gibraltar and the Channel.
And just think, the nazis are dead. The commies yet live. (And live among us.)
I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. Thank you. - Roman Moroni
Yes they have been here in large numbers, like termites, gnawing away on our country and our freedom.
Rival totalitarian regimes, close proximity. Hitler maintained a facade of private property but had no real commitment to the notion other than opposition to communism of the Soviet sort.
I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. Thank you. - Roman Moroni
I read an article about a week or so ago that expanded my horizons about meds because your above question mirrors my thoughts. It was technical with chemical language. In plain English it said that GIs in combat zones were ordered to take malaria pills. Said malaria pills had side effects on a small fraction of the users. One of those side effects could be suicide - like Chantix.
I believe the US military has officially back-tracked on its position there. It used to be that US soldiers were indoctrinated that 'following orders' is not an excuse when breaking the law. and I think they are no longer instructed like that. The US has also said it is not bound by the Geneva Convention. Yes (I think) you are correct that at Nuremburg they said as you said. no offense to you, but none of that impresses me. I'm not their judge. It is my place to be loyal to them (the military people).
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Why?
I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves. Thank you. - Roman Moroni
I knew a man once who was a lieutenant colonel in charge of a 500 man infantry battalian in vietnam. He went out with his men on patrols and occasionally took the point. When they tried to overrun his camp as in the John Wayne movie 'the green beret' he was the one who jumped onto the steel building's roof after the perimeter had been completely compromised and ran back and forth in the night shooting his gun while others were hiding preparing for the end. He saved that camp. When that guy came back from vietnam he was insane. but it was temporary and he was a general within a few months. The US military is full of very stout people who do their jobs. but it is just their job and they are instructed by the civilian leadership of our country. even though the wars are wrong, I can't be disloyal to these people. I understand. Gore Vidal suggested closing the service academies (WEST POINT, ANNAPOLIS, The Air Force Academy) because they turn out an obnoxious breed of officer that America would be better off without. Perhaps the root of the problem isn't officers in general but the save ass company climbers who are fast tracked to serve as flag officers and members of the Joint Chiefs. If it wasn't a risky career move these people could press the Kissingers and other "dual citizens" to stop wasting young American lives, and make it stick. But, which enchanted officer, a legacy from a military family who received a recommendation from a US Senator to be appointed to "the academy" ("Cadet, how much does The Great Chain weigh?") would dare stand up to a lizard to spare the lives of poor white trash like Jessica Lynch or Lynndie England?
Maj. Gen. Grimsley
#14. To: christine (#0)
#15. To: Lysander_Spooner (#1)
Grimsley, how apropos, another in a long line of Merchants of Death
#16. To: abraxas (#2)
#17. To: Shoonra (#7)
#18. To: Cynicom (#12)
the mind bending administered by the military
#19. To: HOUNDDAWG (#13)
#20. To: noone222 (#14)
#21. To: Red Jones (#18)
Our society does not support these soldiers.
#22. To: Red Jones (#16)
as the war went on they discontinued it, money was an issue for them. for
#23. To: HOUNDDAWG (#13)
Once a general or colonel can no longer be guaranteed his heroic legacy and comfy retirement because he's as likely as any grunt to die as a consequence of the policy, then the "Egyptians won't be able to erect any more pyramids because there will be no overseers to manage the workforce."
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#24. To: Red Jones (#20)
perhaps the only good military causes we had in our history were the revolution and the civil war from the southern point of view where they fought against the federal monster.
#25. To: TooConservative (#24)
#26. To: tom007 (#22)
I remember the drugs were discontinued because they made the men crazy after a while.
#27. To: Cynicom (#21)
To me that smells like a draft. It will come and then watch the anti war people come out of their burrows.
#28. To: TooConservative (#27)
Strangely enough, I seem to recall your remarks of seeing draftees hauled away in chains. Do you want to see it again?
#29. To: Red Jones (#15)
(Edited)
Many of them are deceived victims in reality
#30. To: Red Jones (#19)
When that guy came back from vietnam he was insane. but it was temporary and he was a general within a few months.
#31. To: Cynicom (#28)
There was one thing in common both times, utter silence, just the chains dragging the concrete.
#32. To: christine (#0)
#33. To: TooConservative (#31)
#34. To: Turtle (#32)
How much do you want to bet all of these guys were on psychiatric drugs, which have the side effect of murder/suicide?
#35. To: randge (#30)
#36. To: TooConservative (#31)
They had made their deal with the devil.
#37. To: Cynicom, 4 (#36)
#38. To: Lod (#37)
could these be planned and desired results for our military grunts?
#39. To: Cynicom (#38)
#40. To: Cynicom, TooConservative (#36)
They had made their deal with the devil.
#41. To: christine (#0)
#42. To: Red Jones, shoonra (#17)
#43. To: Red Jones (#19)
The US military is full of very stout people who do their jobs. but it is just their job and they are instructed by the civilian leadership of our country. Even though the wars are wrong, I can't be disloyal to these people.
#44. To: wakeup (#9)
I've heard 52% of soldier's deaths is friendly fire. What percentage of that number is assassinations and how many of those taken out were fixing to go public or kill themselves.
#45. To: randge (#40)
Why do you think Belgians and Frenchmen and Norwegians joined the SS?
#46. To: Cynicom (#45)
#47. To: randge (#46)
And just think, the nazis are dead. The commies yet live. (And live among us.)
#48. To: randge (#46)
And just think, the nazis are dead. The commies yet live. (And live among us.)
#49. To: TooConservative (#48)
And live among us.
#50. To: Turtle (#32)
How much do you want to bet all of these guys were on psychiatric drugs, which have the side effect of murder/suicide?
#51. To: Bub (#43)
#52. To: Red Jones (#51)
It is my place to be loyal to them (the military people).
#53. To: Red Jones (#19)
I appreciate your views and am sympathetic. but I can't condone soldiers killing their commanders as in fragging in vietnam.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest